[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 31 KB, 262x394, the catcher in the rye.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1856981 No.1856981 [Reply] [Original]

Not a troll. What are your honest thoughts about this book?

>> No.1856982

Kid seemed like he'd be right at home here.

>> No.1856984

>>1856981
Shit. Whats his name whines all the way through... in the true ironic narative overtones from Salinger

>> No.1856998

>>1856984
except that's it's a parody

>> No.1857000

Honestly doesn't deserve all the flak it gets, but DEFINITELY doesn't deserve the popularity it gets.

Mediocre.

>> No.1857007

its a book you will find really annoying when you are around his age, but amusing and fun when you are older.

Holden isn't "right", but its a snapshot of a stage of life, and does it well. Its a good book.

>> No.1857011

>>1857007
Wow really? I read this when I was 25 and found it really grating. Relentless, I tried hard to release but couldn't. He was so different to anyone I knew when I was a teenager.

Are people ever really as blind and selfrightious as Holden? If they are I am glad I haven't met them

>> No.1857021

>>1857011
>Are people ever really as blind and selfrightious as Holden? If they are I am glad I haven't met them

You have never read the posts on /lit/ before, have you?

>> No.1857023

>>1857021
No I am too busy writing them.....

SHIT maybe I sould take a close look in the mirror....

>> No.1857030

>>1857011
>Are people ever really as blind and selfrightious as Holden? If they are I am glad I haven't met them

You've apparently never been to high school.

>> No.1857043

Honestly, I don't remember shit about it. I just remember what I felt at the time but that information may be outdated, so better not spread it.
I would have to read it again, but I have more interesting books in sight now.

>> No.1857055

Holden is not whiney, nor is he a parody of youth by Salinger. He is a valid representation of someone who has suffered a traumatic even in youth, and has become stunted by it. Holden is analogous to Humbert from Lolita, because both characters desire to relive a past trauma in the present..Holden relives the death of his brother symbolically by rejecting life in general and Humbert relives a frustrating sexual event from the past by having sex with a girl of the age at which his trauma occurred. Holden projects his desire to save his brother onto his sister, hence the "catcher'' metaphor. In the end, I think CITR captures this concept better than Lolita--mainly because CiTR does not rely on the convention of taboo to communicate its message.
/rant

>> No.1857056

Honestly, he could have caught more rye than that.

>> No.1857068

I read it when I was 15 or 16 and really enjoyed it then. I felt like it spoke to me, especially his perception of most people as phonies. I liked the irony there, because teenage years are when most people are experimenting with their personality, and so could be often called phony. Of course, some people carry that with them throughout their life.

I remember reading it and examining my own life to see if I was a phony. I think the book helped me find myself as the person I wanted to be.

I want to read it again, but I can't find it anywhere in ebook format, and that's all I read these days.

>> No.1857083

>>1857007
I first read citr when I was 15 and I loved it I could relate so much to his angsty attitude, salinger had a realisitic teenager until that piece of ass show SKINS

>> No.1857089

I had to read it for my high school freshman English class, I hated it, I thought Holden was a stupid, whiny teenager and I couldn't stand him.
Also:
>goddam
>phony

But then I became 15 and I became a whiny teenager myself and I started to empathize with him. It probably had a lot to do with the fact that my brother irl passed away that year and I didn't like the thought of growing up, I'm not sure.

>> No.1857114

my favourite book of all time. read it like 100 times. in two languages.

>> No.1857155

I see this with all the honesty I can muster; I hated it and I continue to hate it.
It's just awful, but whatever rocks your boat I guess.

>> No.1857161

>Catcher
>Franny and Zooey

Franny and Zooey plz.

>> No.1857165
File: 556 KB, 1904x724, what i read expected got catcher in the rye.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857165

>> No.1857171

>>1857165

those are dumb expectations imo

>> No.1857174
File: 94 KB, 399x388, 5efikfiw74.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857174

Loved it when I was 15. It just makes me feel old, now.

:[

>> No.1857190
File: 96 KB, 278x264, fantano14.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857190

>>1857171
>>1857171

how was it a dumb expectation? everyone on /lit/ hyped it up as some cool kid going around new york with LOADSAMONEY being a rebel and looking fresh

>> No.1857191

>>1857190

idk just strikes me that the book's reputation would suggest that it's not about, like, holden making it rain in the club

>> No.1857192

>>1857190
That's what you get for listening to people who probably only read it part of the way to pass a test on it in high school. Besides your expectations were pretty much met were they not? I don't think Holden had a shit-ton of money, but the book was pretty much about him going about NYC, wasn't it? Are you really complaining that it was too nuanced?

>> No.1857208
File: 66 KB, 213x264, fantano22.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857208

>>1857192
>>1857192
>Are you really complaining that it was too nuanced?
i'm not complaining about everything. The expectations i had didn't make for a great book anyway and in the end i was given a different reality and still a bit of a shit book.
He does go around NYC, but the novel reads as a Diary of an Aspie, a retarded trust fund baby who thinks he's better than everyone else, who uses the same 4 (great characterisation Salinger) phrases over and over again, whines, complains, cries and is just generally an unlikeable angst ridden self-idolizing and self-important teenager.
He's very annoying, unlikeable and contrived, he's worse than the man from Notes from the Underground.

>> No.1857221
File: 18 KB, 250x250, implying.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857221

>>1857208
>Judging the quality of the book by its protagonist
I hope you guys don't do this.

>> No.1857223
File: 11 KB, 300x400, fantano15..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857223

>>1857221
>>1857221
the writing quality was also VERY bad.
but heyy i guess that just makes me a godddamn phony, hell i bet that really gets to you, it really does.

'effin terrible stuff

>> No.1857227
File: 60 KB, 465x349, 100814CH-CR.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857227

>>1857223
The writing was from the point of view of a teenager, of course its going to be flawed and imperfect.

If you'd read Franny and Zooey you'd know that Salinger was a great writer when he wanted to be. If it was written like an adult was telling the story it just wouldn't work.

>> No.1857235
File: 1.44 MB, 330x262, Sarcastic Thumbs Up.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857235

>>1857227
>>1857227

>The writing was from the point of view of a teenager, of course its going to be flawed and imperfect.
good point, i forgot to add it's also from a first person perspective which is terrible. Especially when that person is an aspie teen.
The fact that it was a first person narration from a teen doesn't mean that there is any excuse for such poor characterisation and writing.
I don't particularly want to pick up anything else by Salinger either, not if it's going to be AT ALL like those waste of pages.

>> No.1857237
File: 322 KB, 1200x1200, LaughingMan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857237

>> No.1857242

>>1857190
>everyone on /lit/ hyped it up as some cool kid going around new york with LOADSAMONEY being a rebel and looking fresh

No they didn't. Don't lie.

Every /lit/ thread on Catcher is filled with people who thought Holden was a faggot.

>, but the novel reads as a Diary of an Aspie, a retarded trust fund baby who thinks he's better than everyone else
Thats the point.

Sage for no one being able to understand entry level literature

>> No.1857249

Salinger is a HUGE influence on Bret Easton Ellis.

That should say something right there.

>> No.1857250

>>1857235
>Poor characterisation
>People still arguing over it 50 years later

>> No.1857254
File: 25 KB, 270x347, edwards[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857254

>>1857242
>>1857242

>No they didn't. Don't lie.
actually the camp was split, the people who said he was a faggot seemed to be exaggerating it. I was wrong. He really is that much of a faggot

>Thats the point.
Is it?
When did you sit down with Salinger and have a chat about what the 'point' of the novel is?

>Sage for no one being able to understand entry level literature
ah you think you understand it?
And when did this understanding reach you.

pic related, see if you get the reference
i'll give you a hint, it's Edward W Said

>> No.1857257

>>1857254
He's dead.

>> No.1857260
File: 1.20 MB, 335x184, Megan Fox shy laughter.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857260

>>1857249
>>1857249

what should that say exactly?

>>1857250
>>1857250
>doesn't think people talk about bad things after they've been created

.gif related

>>1857257
>>1857257

that'sthejoke.png

>> No.1857261

>>1857254I wonder, did you also read Lolita thinking "hurr this guys a pedo, shit book" while you read it?

>> No.1857263

>>1857260
He must be a good character if he is still being discussed.

>> No.1857270

The Catcher in the Rye might be my favorite novel.

Jonathan Franzen, apparently with DFW's agreement, thinks that literature for the most part has lost it's social significance. Take The Corrections's seemingly realist prose, but then how it in the end just suddenly ebbs away like a song on the radio or something, drawing no conclusions. It's not its role to do anymore. News, papers and so on fulfull this role in a much flashier, better, relevant and faster way in today's society.

In his essay, which I don't remember the name of but which is in his collection How to Be Alone, he draws from a sociologist's research. Few-to-none suddenly become readers, say in a grown age. They start out as children and to a varying degree do it throughout their life. It's a kind of community they are never far from connecting to, where there is always some kind of purpose to be found, communication to be experienced. Much like a religion it works as a column, a supporting structure, in people's lives.

(Some people need this column more than other people. Eventually, as with any kind of communication, they feel a need to speak back to it. These people become writers. When Franz Kafka says he didn't write because he wanted to, but because he had to, I think that was what he meant.)

>> No.1857271

>>1857270

I don't think The Catcher in the Rye is a parody of a teen or a smug social commentary. I think reading about Salinger makes it pretty clear that his sentiments, if further evolved, were very similar to Holden's. In any case, one of the first things Holden tells you is that the type of books he likes the most, is the ones where you feel like the main character is your friend after finishing it. Later, when sleeping over at his teacher's, his teacher comforts him, saying that he will one day be able to write down what he felt like so that other people will understand that someone felt just like them at some point, and feel better. Thus, like with any literature, The Catcher in the Rye is saying, It's gonna be okay but in contrast to most books doesn't bother disguising it.

The first time I read it I started crying several times. First when he meets the mother of a guy that he doesn't really seem to like, but still tells her lots of nice things about him. I know exactly how that feels. And then the whole ending segment. Also, the phony concept really hits me as well. I feel strange when I see people my age drinking and driving cars, and I can't stand that there's is never anything that seems completely right to do, like how saving playing children from falling off a cliff, being a catcher in the rye, would seemingly be. Supposedly world saving youth organizations are just social get-togethers with an excuse, and even in daily life, knowing what's right and not is impossible when you start picking things apart in a world that seems really complicated.

>> No.1857273

>>1857271

I guess I can understand that many dislike Holden. You're put into the mind of someone. You don't see what he acts like to function with lots of different people, you see how he sees the world, the processes behind his acts. And to a larger degree than say your usual don't-mind-that-this-cheerleader-here-has-Franzen's-vocabulary, or Lolita, conciously not written for potentially real Humberts. If you thus see things completely differently, I guess I could see how you could experience Holden as whiny, worrying so much about things that don't matter to you; or even seeing him as offending, attacking things you think are right. Us who do feel like him, we see someone voicing the things no one ever voices just for that reason. To us, it's pure, lovely communication. It's life support, columning, at it's best, most intimate.

I mean, sometimes I feel down, right? What I'll do is open up a random page and just. Feel better.

The Catcher in the Rye, as I try to put words to my liking of it, is like if there was a band you really liked, literature, and the best parts were the flute solos, communication, whilst they for some reason kept doing lots of other things, not seeing what really mattered in their music. Then one day they suddenly finally realized it's them goddamn flutes, and made an album knowing that, centered around them flutes.

That's The Catcher in the Rye.

(I think.)

<3

>> No.1857279
File: 73 KB, 149x259, cal no.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857279

>>1857263
>>1857263

Dan Brown must be a brilliant writer if his books are still being bought

>> No.1857283

>>1857279
Dan Brown's books are not 50 years old

It's time to stop posting

>> No.1857286

As for self-rightousness, I think Holden to a certain degree knows he's phony too. He's just playing tough for you. He doesn't resent the phonies. He's just scared, doesn't feel like he fits in, and he's trying to rationalize it away, mixing it up with what he would like the world to be like: Pure, simple; there are after all no identity problems when you are a child. In truth, he's oversensitive and loves everyone. The part in the train when he says nice things about someone he officially dislikes, and refuses to understand that he in truth loves everyone, but just doesn't fit in and feels something is wrong, is a key here.

(I think.)

>> No.1857291
File: 64 KB, 190x300, fantano3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857291

>>1857283
>>1857283
>thanks any book that's over 50 years old and is still talked about must contain fantastic characters, and cannot contain bad characters which raises the question of why is this book so fucking popular, maybe it's because of the omgsodeep themes explored within it as well as the rebelious anture of the cussing which gives students something to talk about concerning the social/historical/cultural context of the time. But nah it's because Holden is da best character evarrrrr xDDDDDDDDDDDD

it's time to stop posting kiddo

>> No.1857303

>>1857291
I wasn't the guy here
>>1857263
I was just pointing how completely and utterly retarded your comparison was

>> No.1857307
File: 18 KB, 366x380, shitnigga.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857307

>>1857208
>He's very annoying, unlikeable and contrived, he's worse than the man from Notes from the Underground
>implying Notes from the Underground is bad

Actually kill yourself.

>> No.1857313

>>1857307
>>1857307

I enjoyed NFTU im just saying Holden was more of an aspie

>> No.1857314

I hated the fact that salinger introduced characters and they never developed past that initial introduction. I didn't like it at all.

>> No.1857376

Holden is an insipid twat, but I think the development of his character throughout the novel was well-done. Not a favorite, but worth the read.

Also, not nearly as great as Ocean Full of Bowling Balls

>> No.1857392

This book is how I felt when I was like 14-15.

Overall though, did I enjoy it? Yeah it was an alright book. Very overrated though, like, it doesn't hold the keys to the universe as a lot of serial killers and anime claims.

>> No.1857396

>>1857376
>hamfist

I know you. You're that fat 12 year old girl from /mu/ who posts Spongebob pictures and shitspams threads...

Why the fuck are you discussing literature?

>> No.1857399

>>1857286

You pretty much nailed my exact thoughts in this thread. First trip I have been impressed by, and I would invite you over for a cup of tea IRL.

Kudos.

>> No.1857404

Read it because I enjoyed the movie Taxi Driver, and people said they were similar. Granted I was perhaps too old to understand Caulfield when I read it, I was left feeling rather indifferent. Taxi Driver seemed to be about disgust for society, citr about hatred for it.

>> No.1857415

>>1857165
your expectation were phony as hell. You basically expected the underage badass you never were, and when you got a real story you shit all over it. Salinger wrote about that sort of thing in Franny & Zooey

>> No.1857417
File: 23 KB, 288x499, why.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1857417

>somebody posting pics of that needle dick guy

shit, time to leave the board

>> No.1857470

>>1857314
I loved that aspect of the book. I thought it gave a very complete picture of Holden's life, especially for such a short book. also, since the book is Holden talking to a psychiatrist, the uneven characterization makes it sound like he's really telling a story

>> No.1857481

>>1857470
wait wut

>> No.1857576

>>1857470
>[sp]what were you smoking when you read is book?[sp]

>> No.1857609

honest thought.

Never heard of it anywhere outside 4chan. Never read it nor do I intend to. Sounds like some religious babblepack.

>> No.1857619

Worst book I've ever been forced to read, and I like reading.

I could not hold more contempt for a main character

>> No.1857623

>>1857609
You should tell that to someone in public like a friend or something. You'd get laughed at, just as I'm laughing at you right now.