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/lit/ - Literature

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18545033 No.18545033 [Reply] [Original]

>guy's father's ghost visits him and tells him he's been murdered
>guy decides he's gonna have the murder play out in a stage play to see the reaction of the accused murderer
>doesn't kill murderer when he has the chance because he's praying (he'll go to heaven if killed during praying)
>instead stabs a random figure through the curtains thinking it's the king, it's not
>banished but returns
>everybody duels and dies because of poison (literally everybody except like 1 guy)

and shakespeare is supposed to be a good writer?

>> No.18545038

Do you not know what a tragedy is?

>> No.18545059

>>18545033
I love Hamlet. Great plot.

>> No.18545124
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18545124

>he reads Shakespeare for the plot
Oh no no no no no

>> No.18545131

>>18545033
he doesnt know if the ghost is his dad or if its a demon from hell

what would you do punk?

>> No.18546020

>>18545033
Did you miss all the speeches hamlet made about fucking up constantly? He's not the smartest guy

>> No.18546031

>>18545033
What's bad about it?

>> No.18546039
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18546039

>>18545038
Tragedy is supposed to show men at their best, not the absolute dumbest morons to have existed on this earth.

>>18546020
>caring about the lives of stupid 40 IQ npc fags

>> No.18546064

>>18546039
>Tragedy is supposed to show men at their best
Where in the world did you read this? Not in Aristotle at least.

>> No.18546068

>>18546064
He literally says that in those exact words in Poetics, you illiterate moron

>> No.18546077

>>18546068
No he fucking doesn't.

>> No.18546090

>>18546077
I have no idea why you are doing this, my guess is that you are too lazy to look for the passage yourself and are thus baiting me to spoonfeed it to you. Well, I am not gonna engage you anymore. He spends maybe 20 pages discussing it, it is a major point in Poetics. hence you clearly haven't read the book.

>> No.18546091

>>18546068
>>18546039
Oedipus is an absolute retard and Aristotle thinks it's the epitome of tragedy

>> No.18546093

>>18546068
He quite literally states that it is an above average man, and the 'tragedy' happens when he is at his lowest.

>> No.18546106

>>18546090
Only one of us have read the poetics and greek plays.
You are a bumbling fucking retard.

>> No.18546107

>>18546091
>being placed in an extremely bad position is equivalent to retardation

>>18546093
Maybe read the actual book instead of random quotes you find on instagram

>> No.18546110

>>18546090
Page number and edition faggot

>> No.18546117

>>18546107
Have you read it? It's quite obvious to everyone involved he was fucking his own mother and that the guy he killed on the way was the previous king.

>> No.18546119

>>18546107
>Maybe read the actual book instead of random quotes you find on instagram
pretty fucking ironic

>> No.18546121
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18546121

>>18546106
>>18546110
>>18546119

>> No.18546142

>>18546093
>Aristotle finds that tragedy deals with serious, important, and virtuous people. Comedy, on the other hand, treats of less virtuous people and focuses on human "weaknesses and foibles"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetics_(Aristotle)
I haven't read the book but I am inclined to think that the other anon is correct here.

>> No.18546185

Wherein 4chan discovers classical literature isn't able to depict ordinary life except as a farce - aristotle's poetics is conditioned by this limit. Christ broke it.

>> No.18546186

>>18546142
What the wiki says is right, but that is what i am saying, not what the other guy is saying.

>> No.18546187

>>18545033
Hamlet is a problematic play, in terms of form i.e. plot. It ends when it just needs an end. It's all an excuse for the character of Prince Hamlet. The rest is secondary.

>> No.18546204

>>18546186
I am ESL so I might just be retarded, but unless I messed up my (you)s or something, it seemed that the other guy was saying tragedy portrays the best people mankind has to offer which is the same thing the wiki is saying.

>> No.18546245

Am I to understand correctly that you think Hamlet is a bad play because Hamlet is indecisive and fickle?

>> No.18546292

>>18546090
>>18546068
>>18546107
>He spends maybe 20 pages discussing it
He doesn't. The whole Poetics is around 50 pages long (judging by my edition with up to 25 lines per page).
>Homer, for example, makes men better than they are; Cleophon as they are; Hegemon the Thasian, the inventor of parodies, and Nicochares, the author of the Deiliad, worse than they are. The same thing holds good of Dithyrambs and Nomes; here too one may portray different types, as Timotheus and Philoxenus differed in representing their Cyclopes. The same distinction marks off Tragedy from Comedy; for Comedy aims at representing men as worse, Tragedy as better than in actual life. (ch. 2)
>A perfect tragedy should [...] imitate actions which excite pity and fear, this being the distinctive mark of tragic imitation. It follows plainly, in the first place, that the change, of fortune presented must not be the spectacle of a virtuous man brought from prosperity to adversity: for this moves neither pity nor fear; it merely shocks us. Nor, again, that of a bad man passing from adversity to prosperity: for nothing can be more alien to the spirit of Tragedy; it possesses no single tragic quality; it neither satisfies the moral sense nor calls forth pity or fear. Nor, again, should the downfall of the utter villain be exhibited. A plot of this kind would, doubtless, satisfy the moral sense, but it would inspire neither pity nor fear; for pity is aroused by unmerited misfortune, fear by the misfortune of a man like ourselves. Such an event, therefore, will be neither pitiful nor terrible. There remains, then, the character between these two extremes,—that of a man who is not eminently good and just,-yet whose misfortune is brought about not by vice or depravity, but by some error or frailty. He must be one who is highly renowned and prosperous,—a personage like Oedipus, Thyestes, or other illustrious men of such families. (ch. 13)
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1974/1974-h/1974-h.htm
It's really not that difficult to look into the easily accessible public domain texts to provide references, I don't see why you have to be an asshole. Yes, Aristotle did NOT say that "tragedy is supposed to show men at their best". Neither is his opinion the determiner of how all tragedy ever should work anyway (and it is entirely possible that Shakespeare never read Aristotle). For what it's worth, Hamlet is certainly a good, intelligent person, seeking justice, yet fearful and doubtful - that is his frailty (hamartia).

>> No.18546299

>>18546204
That is not the same.
Aristotle makes a clear distinction here.
They are above (or even high above) the normal people, so they are often kings or princes, but there's a reason you don't see Achilles or Odysseus in plays.

>> No.18546724

>>18546107
>these are the people you argue with on /lit/

>> No.18547267

He was a good plagiarist.

>> No.18547295

>>18547267
"A good artist imitates; a great artist steals."