IDGI

[Anonymous No.18526122]

So I decided to look up what this dude has to say. It's whacky but there's something I don't get. if Nick Land loves capitalism so much (why, I still don't understand) then why did he move to China? Isn't China communist? And also he's kind of an ancap too right? Again, why china, it's anything but libertarian, nevermind anarchist.

Keep in mind I only just decided to stop ignoring Land about a week ago and don't really know much about China

[Anonymous No.18526129]

He’s a smackhead

[Anonymous No.18526320]

>>18526122
https://youtu.be/AP_wVxW9LyM

IMO a decent Land primer.

[Anonymous No.18526345]

>>18526122
Land types think China is allowing capitalism to flourish more than the West these days

[Anonymous No.18526364]

>>18526320
thank you
>>18526345
so in his assessment, china is not communist or does he think somehow communism is helpful to capitalism?

[Anonymous No.18526369]

>>18526320
8 hours holy shit

[Anonymous No.18526390]

>>18526364
I think his primary concern is simply the presence of mostly unfettered private industry and China now has a ton of that and is creating more constantly at a rapid rate. Whether the state is called capitalist or communist doesnt matter as much.

[Anonymous No.18526401]

>pick up fanged noumena
>it's half pseud academic tryhard nonsense
>other half is literally him copypasting machine code and bashing his keyboard with fists
yeah Im gonna pass on this guy

[Anonymous No.18526404]

>>18526320
>8 hours
>primer
I could literally finish the actual book in the time it would take to watch this shit.

[Anonymous No.18526462]

>>18526320
isnt that a Stirner flag?
How does that even make sense? Isnt having a Stirner flag proof that you are not an unspook Stirnerite?

[Anonymous No.18526470]

[Anonymous No.18526474]

>>18526122
Yes, Nick land is an anarchist and China is communist.

[Anonymous No.18526478]

>>18526462
no. It's the anarcho transhumanist flag.

[Anonymous No.18526480]

>>18526462
No that blue makes it an anarcho transhumanist flag. This one is the egoism flag.

[Anonymous No.18526490]

>>18526404
You remind me of a guy I knew in college who told me he read Being and time in under 8 hours. I wonder what is he up to these days.

[Anonymous No.18526495]

>>18526390
isn't china like 85% public sector?

[Anonymous No.18526501]

>>18526495
No it's now about 60% private, 40% public, and the trend is towards more private share of the economy each year.

[Anonymous No.18526517]

>>18526122
In China the capitalists serve the state. In the US the capitalists serve themselves. It turns out China's system leads to more production thus outcompeting the US.

[Anonymous No.18526524]

>>18526495
The difference between the chinese public sector and "western" one is that the chinese, in accordance with Engels, practice state capitalism

[Anonymous No.18526531]

>>18526517
>In China the capitalists serve the state. In the US the capitalists serve themselves.

Hello Eric Li.

[Anonymous No.18526535]

>>18526122
>Isn't China communist?
Not economically

[Anonymous No.18526544]

>>18526501
>>18526524
okay wow, i was unaware of thar

[Anonymous No.18526558]

>>18526531
I think I hear it from him but yeah, after analyzing both US and China I've come to the same conclusion. The capitalist's power in the US leads to a lot of corruption and abuse and the government just is there to facilitate whatever the capitalists want. In China if a capitalist goes against the state, they get executed. This is how they are growing so fast and winning.

[Anonymous No.18526562]

>>18526535
in what way is it communist? in name only?

[Anonymous No.18526615]

>>18526558
It also has a paradoxical effect where big business and the state rally against small business, making private industry difficult and the market distorted, whereas in china you see kind of the reverse.

[Anonymous No.18526635]

>>18526558
>In China if a capitalist goes against the state, they get executed.

Except this doesn't happen. The whole point of China engaging in capitalism is precisely to grow their economy, which is what makes capitalists rich.

Do you honestly think that capitalists give a shit if they live in a dictatorship as long as that dictatorship lets them do whatever they want to gain profits?

[Anonymous No.18526639]

was land ever a leftist? and if yes how and why did he become so extremely rightist?
and is it fair to say that land is a marxist, just highly revisionist?

[Anonymous No.18526646]

>>18526122
I like his reading of Kant. But like all continentals he has too many prerequisites for to be easily read. He's memed about but you'll get nothing out of FN if you haven't read Deleuze, Bataille, Nietzsche, Kant, Spinoza, Plato and so on.

[Anonymous No.18526662]

Holy Shit I hate marxist so fucking much.

How brain dead retarded do you have to be to analyze dialectism and the harp on absolutely everything needing to return to one fucking party or chairman?
American capitalists not directly swearing allegiance to the rpesident and not thinking about producing their capital for congress does not mean they do not produce for the liberal capitalist holism.
Take one line of Hegel without understanding what it means and then completely corrupt anything to your nitwit level of understanding.
Most you retarded anglos just hold onto Marxism cause you were too dumb to read Hegel.

[Anonymous No.18526669]

>>18526662
>holism
Except there are disintegrative process which lead to turmoil, rebirth, and sometimes total collapse

[Anonymous No.18526676]

>>18526320
>8hrs
>even with his speech sped up 1.5
but I respect the effort

[Anonymous No.18526688]

>>18526122
Read a book by Pettis The Great Rebalancing. Economics professor who teaches in Beijing. He also has an online presence. China is a complex country with many good and bad points.

[Anonymous No.18526691]

>>18526320
Good shit

[Anonymous No.18526703]

[Anonymous No.18526706]

>>18526639
in short, during his CCRU days he was more "liberation" focused, liberation of capital, liberation of desires, social liberation etc. At some point he disappeared from the radar, ODed on amphetamines and moved to Shanghai. That is the hard right NRx Land of today. In terms of Marx, he is a big influence as essentially the first guy to peer behind the veil of capital, look up his speech about free trade if you want to know what im talking about

[Anonymous No.18526714]

>>18526662
Chinamen in the middle have some amazing copes to get around government policies. Sometimes the cringe factor is overcome by the pure brilliance. I don't remember where I read about these, sorry.

[Anonymous No.18526742]

>>18526495
State owned enterprise. Bejing has trouble shutting them down when they become disasters. Combination corruption and nepotism. Is Fannie Mae any better or worse?

[Anonymous No.18526752]

>>18526615
I think Pettis has the most understandable take on this.

[Anonymous No.18526761]

>>18526122
just read meltdown to start with it's not very long

>>18526320 this is not a good primer I'm 20 minutes in and he's made a lot of false claims and over simplifications

[Anonymous No.18526764]

>>18526714
Example is to take out a loan to buy a subsidized export, buy product, take out a loan on product, use loan to operate real business, pay back everything before loans blow up.

[Anonymous No.18526766]

>>18526320
>Nick Land
Into the trash it goes.

[Anonymous No.18526772]

>>18526122
What's some good academic books or journals which discuss China's capitalism and how it differs from USA, and also a book discussing the current geopolitical scenario.
I saw some interesting insights in this thread and want to learn more.

[Anonymous No.18526787]

>>18526662
t. Chang

This post is just further proof that the CCP has completely abandoned materialism for some kind of vague Hegalianism.

[Anonymous No.18526788]

shilling is so cringe.

[Anonymous No.18526843]

>>18526703
who is this making fun of?

[Anonymous No.18526848]

oh no the anti-acc "I am totally acc-fag" fag has arrived with his cringe posts.

[Anonymous No.18526861]

>>18526848
Where?

[Anonymous No.18526863]

>>18526122
he moved to china because china has the strongest capitalist system in the world right now. he wishes to live in bleeding edge capital land

[Anonymous No.18526875]

>>18526122
>china is communist
China has a command economy, aka a state controlled market economy. There is absolutely *nothing* resembling communism alive in China today, anymore than there's socialism in Northern European nations. Conflating ideas doesn't make them equivalent. The entirety of economic ideology doesn't exist as capitalism or communism.

[Anonymous No.18526888]

>>18526875
>anymore than there's socialism in Northern European nations
Northern European nations totally have socialism implemented.
It jsut isnt the cringe kike phantasma "socialism" where all material becomes immaterial, but instead it is the prussian Bismarck socialism, only germanics can enjoy and perpetuate.

[Anonymous No.18526896]

>>18526635
>Except this doesn't happen.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferwang/2021/01/07/disappearing-billionaires-jack-ma-and-other-chinese-moguls-who-have-mysteriously-dropped-off-the-radar/

[Anonymous No.18526899]

>>18526888
We're discussing economics, not the intellectual masturbation of schizophrenics. There is not a single socialist nation on Earth.

[Anonymous No.18526902]

>>18526122
>Isn't China communist?
https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/1334313286884442113

[Anonymous No.18526909]

>>18526899

[Anonymous No.18526924]

>>>/xpol/

[Anonymous No.18526927]

>>18526924
I'd browse that

[Anonymous No.18526930]

>>18526896
>>Except this doesn't happen.
>https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferwang/2021/01/07/disappearing-billionaires-jack-ma-and-other-chinese-moguls-who-have-mysteriously-dropped-off-the-radar/

Got em, how is that guy gonna comment on China when he doesn't even pay attention to what they've done?

[Anonymous No.18526932]

He's working for them now

[Anonymous No.18526933]

>>18526899
From your logic then there isn't a real capitalist nation on earth either

[Anonymous No.18526938]

>>18526122
Reminder that there's a (small) chance that Land is actually still a far leftist who is only pretending to be the human embodiment of the undead amphetamine god in order to force the left to get its shit together. He could just be playing devil's advocate in the most literal sense imaginable. Or maybe, somewhere along the way, he lost the ability to differentiate between himself, and the Old One currently inhabiting his meat prison. All I know is that his twitter takes are boomerish as fuck and he just isn't as exciting or intellectually daring as he used to be.

[Anonymous No.18526943]

>>18526899
I bet you think socialism means 'worker ownership of the means of production' like all the other breadtubers.

[Anonymous No.18526944]

>>18526938
>till a far leftist who is only pretending to be the human embodiment of the undead amphetamine god in order to force the left to get its shit together. He could just be playing devil's advocate in the most literal sense imaginable.
yo whats up Mr. Fischer.

[Anonymous No.18526950]

>>18526933
Name a single country where the means of production and capital are communally owned.

>>18526943
I bet you think it means something totally different despite being defined explicitly as that, like all the other copouts screeching about the schizophrenic rantings of academics being contrarian.

[Anonymous No.18526991]

>>18526950
>>18526933
>>18526943
I didn't think so.
There are no nations on Earth without a market economy, and there are no market economies which are not either wholly owned, planned, and perpetuated by a state mechanism external to any communal control (beyond some hand-wavy horseshit asserting that the state is somehow, magically, an extrapolation of the will of the community), or simply is not communal by any measure whatsoever.

There are no socialist nations are Earth. There are exactly 4 communist states, a handful of command economies "with elements of capitalism", and the rest are varying degrees of capitalism. Inb4 you try to say communism and socialism are the same thing.

[Anonymous No.18527003]

>>18526950
>bet you think it means something totally different despite being defined explicitly as that
Try actually reading books. Even Marx doesn't reduce it to that.

[Anonymous No.18527012]

>>18526944
I can always tell it's you because there is not c in his name :P

[Anonymous No.18527017]

>>18526843

[Anonymous No.18527030]

>>18526927
Of course you would

[Anonymous No.18527034]

>>18526991
>4 communist states
which ones?

[Anonymous No.18527053]

>>18526944
not much, just chillin. listening to burial and thinking bout how to revive 60s counterculturalism for the rave era without all the ideological boomer baggage. Anyone got a bump?

[Anonymous No.18527058]

>>18526122
>if Nick Land loves capitalism so much (why, I still don't understand
Read the fucking "The Thirst for Annihilation" instead of "Fanged Numena". All the answers are there

"Mechanisms are subordinated to motors; to thermic difference, energy flux, reservoir, and sump. Order is an evanescent chance, a deviation from disorder, a disequilibrium. Negative disorder—negentropy—is an energetic resource"
"It can be argued that when t=∞ any possible H-value becomes probable, and perhaps even necessary."
"Thermospasm is howl, annihilating intensity, a peak of improbability. Energetic matter has a tendency, a Todestrieb. The current scientific sense of this movement is a perpetual degradation of energy or dissipation of difference. Upstream is the reservoir of negentropy, uneven distribution, thermic disequilibrium. Downstream is Tohu Bohu, statistical disorder, indifference, Wärmetod. The second law of thermodynamics tells us that disorder must increase, that regional increases in negentropy still imply an aggregate increase in entropy. Life is able to deviate from death only because it also propagates it, and the propagation of disorder is always more successful than the deviation. Degradation ‘profits’ out of life. Any process of organization is necessarily aberrational"
"A corpse has one preeminent and historically fateful heterogeneous distribution: that between its skeletal structure and its soft tissues. <...> Osseology, in its deep sense, is the usage of the difference between the hard and soft parts of the body as a logical operator in the discourse on matter and death. For instance, differentiation between eternal form and perishable substance, celestial purity and terrestrial filth, divine architecture and base flow <...> The skeleton is the relatively dead part of an organism, and because of this it is also the part relatively immune to dissolution."

Or in other words:
-whatever accelerates technological process is cool, because Boltzmann, statistics and infinity. At infinity anything is possible.
-you are fucked either way. Your choice is between being sacrificed for higher cause ("negentropy") or just slowly degrading in your own shit.
-the thing you are sacrificing yourself for - is basically the only part of yours that can attain longevity.

As long as China produces hi-tech, sends rockets into space and experiments on genetically-engineered humans, everything is cool.

[Anonymous No.18527071]

>>18526843
>>18526848
Nice trip for proxy shilling.

[Anonymous No.18527123]

>>18527058
>whatever accelerates technological process is cool
>Your choice is between being sacrificed for higher cause ("negentropy")
>negentropy

Can I get an some more explanation of this? By things becoming more "order" I assume this means becoming more powerful or godlike. is this correct?

[Anonymous No.18527164]

>>18527123
No, it isn't.

[Anonymous No.18527169]

>>18526662
>absolutely everything needing to return to one fucking party or chairman?
>American capitalists not directly swearing allegiance to the rpesident
This implies the Deep State - because politics are, where important choices are. And capitalists like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos are much more apt at changing your life, than any politician ass clown.
This implies that everything is subjected to one fucking logic "Money => More Money".
This implies that whatever you're subjected to is completely inhuman and/or insane, and will make you go extinct.

[Anonymous No.18527185]

>>18527169
>top - down change
>power is shifting from a hirarchical to a bottom up plane level
do you fags not read (and watch) the guy you talk about so much?

[Anonymous No.18527208]

>>18527185
>fags
>you
>talk so much about
kek

[Anonymous No.18527218]

>>18527123
>becoming more powerful or godlike
Something powerful (an AI, Cthulhu, or whatever) might eventually emerge. You - as a human being - are fucked either way.

"Expenditure, or sacrificial consumption, is not an appeal, an exchange, or a negotiation, but an uninhibited wastage that returns energy to its solar trajectory, releasing it back into the movement of dissipation that the terrestrial system—culminating in restricted human economies—momentarily arrests. Voluptuary destruction is the only end of energy, a process of liquidation that can be suspended by the acumulative efforts whose zenith form is that of the capitalist bourgeoisie, but only for a while. For solar economy ‘[e]xcess is the incontestable point of departure’, and excess must, in the end, be spent."

[Anonymous No.18527220]

>>18526703
Based

[Anonymous No.18527228]

>>18527058
>Thermospasm is howl, annihilating intensity, a peak of improbability. Energetic matter has a tendency, a Todestrieb.
This is so cringe. Even for a trannyist

[Anonymous No.18527254]

>>18527218
> Something powerful (an AI, Cthulhu, or whatever) might eventually emerge. You - as a human being - are fucked either way.

But this is where people like Elon Musk are hopeful of a merge scenario, where we become one with the AI or greater being. Does you or Land see this as a possibility?

[Anonymous No.18527265]

>>18527185
This "bottom-up" means "no one can control shit anymore, it runs by its own logic"

http://s3.amazonaws.com/arena-attachments/2118354/b390e4336afaec0f023cb1198bed3691.pdf?1525169195
"Under teleoplexic guidance, ontological realism is decoupled from the present. rendering the question 'what is real?' increasingly obsolete. <...> Techonomic naturalism records and predicts historical virtuality, and in doing so orients itself towards an object -with catastrophically unpredictable traits-which has predominantly yet to arrive. "
"the evaluation of teleoplexy is a research program which teleoplexy itself undertakes. The comprehensive value of capital is an emergent estimate, generated automatically by its inherent analytical intelligence"
"As accelerationism closes upon this circuit of teleoplexic self-evaluation, its theoretical 'position'-or situation relative to its object-becomes increasingly tangled, until it assumes the basic characteristics of a terminal identity crisis. "

[Anonymous No.18527274]

>>18527254
>are hopeful of a merge scenario
https://zerophilosophy.substack.com/p/the-worm-bins

"“The Brotherhood of Urban Composters,” Joyce read aloud. “It sounds innocent enough, I suppose,” he mumbled, without conviction. “There has to be a niche for such people.”
Clarke’s attention remained glued to the bins themselves.
“They can eat bones,” he explained. I said nothing. My skepticism must have been obvious.
“You don’t believe me?” he asked. “I understand how it might seem improbable.”
<...>
“Food for worms,” Joyce muttered, as if citing funeral liturgy, and then once again, though more hushed, and at a yet-greater pitch of distress: “My God!”
“Transmutation of the flesh,” Clarke noted. “It’s an old idea. You will, of course, be familiar with it from our own religious traditions. Certain tendencies in esoteric alchemy were especially oriented towards it.”"

"De Vermis Mysteriis can seem unnecessarily morbid on a first reading. It is easy to miss the subtle humor. How could it be imagined that feeding oneself to worms might be an attractive idea? But eventually, sense dawns. By the time you grasp the inevitability, its work is done."

[Anonymous No.18527358]

>>18527274
So essentially it's becoming annihilated either way whether it is by transmutation or decomposition? Personally, I'm not afraid of that as living as this flawed, sufferable being forever would be worse. If something greater than a human emerges from our efforts then I consider that evolution.

[Anonymous No.18527376]

>>18527254
Sounds like being absorbed into a demon and it annihilating your soul

[fanged noumena No.18527433]

>>18526122
From Wikipedia
>Communism is a philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state. As such, communism is a specific form of socialism.

So no, China is absolutely not communist.
But when using the idealistic definition, nothing is really communist (except some 30 people communes for some short amounts of time).
Historically, communist writings have triggered many movements that generally all run into the "power corrupts" issue and dissolve - so ironically wannabe communism, which speaks about being free from a state, is generally state-totalitarian. For these unfortunate series of events, some people will take of communism as the best idea and another group of people will talk about it as the very worst idea.
China has an extremely controlling state, so it's fair to associate it with the Soviet regimes, which developed under the pretense of communism. But at the same time, they are as far from communism as you could get.
I hope that clears things up. For communication reasons, it's not helpful to speak of communism at all, imho. You can ask if it's totalitarian or libertarian economically, but you'll not get much out of it if you ask if this and that is communist, because it means diametrically opposed things to different people.

[fanged noumena No.18527478]

>>18526122
>if Nick Land loves capitalism so much (why, I still don't understand)
I'd say he loves the notion of the self-perpetuating processes.
Or rather, he views it as a single (noumenal) process.
And capitalism (market discover processes) is a current manifestation of it.

[Anonymous No.18527492]

>>18527478
>a single (noumenal) process.
do you people even realize what you are doing when you say this shit?

[Anonymous No.18528524]

nick land's attraction to china comes primarily imo from the repercussions of mao. deleuze, bataille and his group all meshed well with the maoists, and that's where land's inspiration comes from - it's an idea of total relativism, with no constant morals or intrinsic goods that goes with accelerationism

[Anonymous No.18528539]

>>18528524
No one cares now stop bumping.

[Anonymous No.18528963]

>>18528539
You cared enough to reply.

[Anonymous No.18530699]

NICKU! LANDU!

[Anonymous No.18530704]

accfag fuck off.

[Anonymous No.18530729]

>>18526122
>name is in the thesaurus under 'colonialism'

[Anonymous No.18532051]

Is Nick Land just a dengist that likes cyberpunk?