Hadith literature

[OP No.18524934]

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

I have been asked multiple times about where to start with Hadiths. There are obviously some good secular resources out there, like The Origins of Islamic Jurisprudence, which is about the compilation of Hadiths and how they came to play the role they do. But for the most part people seem to want religious texts so without further ado,

Imam Nawawi's Forty Hadiths, a famous compilation, by the renowned scholar, of forty crucial Hadiths for Islamic doctrine.
https://www.abuaminaelias.com/forty-hadith-nawawi/

Imam Nawawi's larger compilation of Hadiths for Islamic practice
https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin

DON'T MISUSE HADITHS! 200 crucial scholarly maxims for using Hadiths
https://archive.org/details/200HadithBenefitsFromShaykhSulaymanIbnNasirAlAlwan/mode/1up

More Hadiths for practice
https://archive.org/details/BulughAlMaramIbnHajarAlAsqalani/mode/2up


There are Hadiths and rulings saying chess is haram, or that it's haram to see your wife naked even while having sex. What to make of this? Find out in “100 Fabricated Hadiths” which goes over commonly fake Hadiths proven fake by classical experts of Hadith but still commonly accepted today without knowing.
https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/100%20Fabricated%20Hadith.pdf

All taken from the larger pastebin for Islamic resources
https://pastebin.com/CKbsaqE0

[Anonymous No.18524965]

And some Shia Hadith books.

Kitab al-Kafi
https://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Al-Kafi.pdf

Anthology
https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-anthology-sayyid-muhammad-husayn-tabatabai

Kitab al-Irshad
https://www.shia-maktab.info/index.php/en/library/books/english?format=raw&task=download&fid=93

[OP No.18525017]

>>18524965
What's the rough number of Shia Hadiths which are considered sound? Sunnis tend to ascribe soundness to sixty thousand Hadiths but Sunni experts in the field say we have more like 10,000-15,000 Hadiths which are sound.

[Anonymous No.18525056]

>>18525017
I am not aware of the numbers, but Hadiths from the collections like al-Kafi are mostly considered sound, but other collections like Bihar al-Anwar which are more comprehensive are considered to have unsound Hadiths mixed in.

[OP No.18525070]

>>18525056
What are the criteria for what makes a hadith weak vs sound?

[Anonymous No.18525086]

>>18525017
>>18525056
>>18525070
You switched your name around samefag

[Anonymous No.18525091]

>>18525070
The chain of succession as well as the biographical evaluation of the narrators.

[Anonymous No.18525104]

>>18525086
Nah, the "OP" is zealously Sunni poster. I am a Shia. We've had some lengthy debates if you have visited some earlier Islamic threads.

[OP No.18525137]

>>18525091
Then if these are the sole criteria, any cleric who says a hadiths can be considered sound based on content even if the narrators are weak, would be a deviant, yes? That includes muhadditheen who grade or include Hadiths in their collections based on this logic?

[Anonymous No.18525155]

>>18525137
You can also make a judgment based on the content alone. If the Hadith contradicts the Qur'an, or if it contradicts a lot more other sound Hadiths, then we can conclude it is not sound, even if its documents "look sound" otherwise, and of course vice versa.

[OP No.18525163]

>>18525155
By the Quran you mean the pure meaning of the Arabic, or a particular tafsir of the Quran?

[OP No.18525171]

>>18525155
By the way, this isn't what I asked. I asked if a hadith has weak narrators in its chain ,(those confirmed for dotards, poor memory, embellishes, unknowns, etc) can it be strengthened based on a content alone? And if not, would those who say otherwise be deviants?

[Anonymous No.18525176]

It is true what the scholars say, that all hadith are bidah and anyone who interprets Quran in light of hadith commits shirk.

[Anonymous No.18525185]

>>18525163
Pure meaning alone, or other sound Hadiths. Shia tafsirs are based on narrations from the Imams, who alone have the authority to interpret the true meaning of the Qur'an.
>>18525171
>can it be strengthened based on a content alone?
It can be strengthened if it is supported by the Qur'an, or other sound Hadiths.

[Anonymous No.18525187]

>>18525176
The criteria for identifying sahih hadith were not set by Quran, but by murtads.

[Anonymous No.18525194]

>>18525187
Amin

[OP No.18525205]

>>18525185
By “supported” you mean explicitly corroborated, of course?

[OP No.18525209]

>>18525185
I have seen some major conflict in Shia tafsirs, by the way. Are you sure no one can give tafsir but the twelve?

[Anonymous No.18525252]

>>18525205
Yes? Not sure why you ask this.
>>18525209
Granted, the Prophet can also interpret the Qur'an. Which tafsirs are you talking about? The Shia currently use Allamah Tabatabai's Tafsir al-Mizan as the standard.

[OP No.18525373]

>>18525252
>? Not sure why you ask this
Because there are clerics who say otherwise quite blatantly, and knowing these are deviants by your own doctrine makes things a lot easier for us

>Which tafsirs are you talking about?

I mean tafsir (interpretation ( as a general interpretation, no a verse by verse complete cooy. For example the Safavids considered Sunnis kuffar based on their tafsir of Qur'an but now many Shia are saying the Safavids were extremists despite them being celebrated by many. Or for example Khomeini's tafsir of Qur'an by which he understands to mean clerics are above it in authority, a position which other interpretations disagree with.

[Anonymous No.18525394]

Uhh...did we get too cocky, salafistbros?

[Anonymous No.18525401]

>>18525394

[Anonymous No.18525405]

>>18525401

[Anonymous No.18525419]

>>18525405

[Anonymous No.18525422]

>>18524934
Powerful.

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet ﷺ said, "Allah likes sneezing and dislikes yawning, so if someone sneezes and then praises Allah, then it is obligatory on every Muslim who heard him, to say: May Allah be merciful to you (Yar-hamuka-l-lah). But as regards yawning, it is from Satan, so one must try one's best to stop it, if one says 'Ha' when yawning, Satan will laugh at him."
https://muflihun.com/bukhari:6223

[Anonymous No.18525428]

>>18525422
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet ﷺ said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."
https://muflihun.com/bukhari:3320

[Anonymous No.18525433]

>>18525428
Narrated 'Abdullah:

We used to consider miracles as Allah's Blessings, but you people consider them to be a warning. Once we were with Allah's Apostle on a journey, and we ran short of water. He said, "Bring the water remaining with you." The people brought a utensil containing a little water. He placed his hand in it and said, "Come to the blessed water, and the Blessing is from Allah." I saw the water flowing from among the fingers of Allah's Apostle , and no doubt, we heard the meal glorifying Allah, when it was being eaten (by him).
https://muflihun.com/bukhari:3579

[Anonymous No.18525444]

>>18525373
>Because there are clerics who say otherwise quite blatantly
I have not seen such a cleric. Who do you have in mind?
> but now many Shia are saying the Safavids were extremists
This is true. There are Hadiths from Imams which show the Imams still considered Sunnis to be "Muslims", even though they were missing out on the crucial guidance the Imams.
>Or for example Khomeini's tafsir of Qur'an by which he understands to mean clerics are above it in authority
This is a misinterpretation of Khomeini's take on Wilayah. Granted, it is a little subtle and easy to mistake. Since there are narrations from Imams who appoint clerics as those who guide the Ummah in their absence, Khomeini argues the Wali al-Faqih becomes unified with Islam itself, in the sense the Imams were; but there is the difference that the Imams were infallible, while the clerics aren't. So I take it that, if the WF contradicts the teachings of Islam, then he loses his status at that moment, but otherwise Islam and WF are inseparable. The clerics are absolutely not above the Qur'an or the teachings of Imams.

[OP No.18525448]

>>18525056
>like al-Kafi are mostly considered sound

>Al-Kaafi is written by Muhammad Ibn Ya'qoub known as Sheikh Kolayni1 . He died in 328 or according to Najashi in 329 A.H; i.e. the last year of minor occultation.

>The numbers of its Ahadith according to the present published copy- is 15176 Hadith which is more than the Ahadith of all the Six Authentic Sunni books of Hadith.

And even in those there are weak Hadiths in the three weaker ones

[Anonymous No.18525449]

>>18525433
Jabir b. Samura reported Messenger of Allah ﷺ as saying: I recognise the stone in Mecca which used to pay me salutations before my advent as a Prophet and I recognise that even now.
https://muflihun.com/muslim:2277

[Anonymous No.18525461]

>>18525449
Narrated Anas:

It was said to the Prophet "Would that you see Abdullah bin Ubai." So, the Prophet went to him, riding a donkey, and the Muslims accompanied him, walking on salty barren land. When the Prophet reached 'Abdullah bin Ubai, the latter said, "Keep away from me! By Allah, the bad smell of your donkey has harmed me." On that an Ansari man said (to 'Abdullah), "By Allah! The smell of the donkey of Allah's Apostle is better than your smell." On that a man from 'Abdullah's tribe got angry for 'Abdullah's sake, and the two men abused each other which caused the friends of the two men to get angry, and the two groups started fighting with sticks, shoes and hands. We were informed that the following Divine Verse was revealed (in this concern):-- "And if two groups of Believers fall to fighting then, make peace between them." (49.9)
https://muflihun.com/bukhari:2691

[Anonymous No.18525465]

>>18525461
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet ﷺ said, "When you hear the crowing of cocks, ask for Allah's Blessings for (their crowing indicates that) they have seen an angel. And when you hear the braying of donkeys, seek Refuge with Allah from Satan for (their braying indicates) that they have seen a Satan."
https://muflihun.com/bukhari:3303

[Anonymous No.18525476]

>>18525448
Keep in mind Shia Hadith books include many, many Hadiths from the Imams, which the Sunnis don't. They don't correspond at all with Sunni books.

[Anonymous No.18525485]

>>18525465
Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri:

The people asked the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ): Can we perform ablution out of the well of Buda'ah, which is a well into which menstrual clothes, dead dogs and stinking things were thrown? He replied: Water is pure and is not defiled by anything.
https://sunnah.com/abudawud:66

[Anonymous No.18525489]

>>18525449
Kind of weird of them to present the stone in such a sexual way isn't it?

[Anonymous No.18525493]

>>18525485
Abu Huraira reported Messenger of Allah ﷺ as saying: None of you should drink while standing;
and if anyone forgets, he must vomit.
https://muflihun.com/muslim:2026

lol

[Anonymous No.18525499]

>>18525394
Do you take Abu Bakr's arrogation of caliphate as "slander", or do you have other things in mind?

[OP No.18525505]

>>18525444
>I have not seen such a cleric. Who do you have in mind?

We find for example

“On the other hand, a Hadith may be weak as long as the chain of its transmitters is concerned- yet the Shia jurists have acted upon it. This will compensate the weakness of the Hadith.”

This series of lessons is extremely educational on the Shia approach to grading Hadiths

>A Maqbool Hadith is the one that the scholars considered it acceptable and acted upon it whether it is a Sahih or Hasan or even a weak Hadith.

>It may be that a Hadith is authentic yet most of the scholars do not act upon it. When majority of scholars turn away from a Hadith it makes it weak.

[Anonymous No.18525512]

>>18525493
Narrated Anas:

The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron.

[Anonymous No.18525520]

>>18525499
see
>>18525401

[OP No.18525523]

>>18525444
>This is a misinterpretation of Khomeini's take on Wilayah.

It is?

>After the Islamic Revolution in Iran [Khomeini] explored this view more explicitly. In his famous letter to Ayatollah Khamenei (the current Wali al-Faqih), he insists that the authority of the Prophet and Imams to govern is not only a first order divine law but also it has priority over others such as praying, fasting, Hajj and so on. He writes:

>The government or the absolute guardianship (al- Wilayat al-mutlaqa) that is delegated to the noblest messenger of Allah is the most important divine laws and has priority over all other ordinances of the law. If the powers of the government restricted to the framework of ordinances of the law then the delegation of the authority to the Prophet would be a senseless phenomenon. I have to say that government is a branch of the Prophet's absolute Wilayat and one of the primary (first order) rules of Islam that has priority over all ordinances of the law even praying, fasting and Hajj...The Islamic State could prevent implementation of everything - devotional and non- devotional - that so long as it seems against Islam's interests42.

https://www.al-islam.org/shia-political-thought-ahmed-vaezi/what-wilayat-al-faqih

[OP No.18525529]

>>18525476
Sunnis have a more Sahaba to draw on, but tend to be very rigorous in methodology of grading hadiths

[OP No.18525548]

>>18525505
Forgot link
https://www.al-islam.org/sciences-hadith-shaykh-mansour-leghaei/meeting-9-science-al-mostalahaat-part-2

[Anonymous No.18525556]

>>18525523
>He insists that the authority of the Prophet and Imams to govern is not only a first order divine law but also it has priority over others such
>delegated to the noblest messenger of Allah
Read carefully. That is the "authority of the Prophet and Imams", not the authority of the WF. The Prophet and the Imams are indeed given absolute Wilayah by Allah.

[Anonymous No.18525560]

>>18525485
>Water is pure and is not defiled by anything.
>>18525493
>>18525493
>None of you should drink while standing;
>and if anyone forgets, he must vomit.

[Anonymous No.18525569]

>>18525529
You misunderstood. The Shia treat the Imams as just important as the Prophet (since they are tasked with guiding the Umma after the Prophet), so even the minor details of them are recorded in narrations. The Imams are not just narrators, but also those from whom the narrators get their narrations. They aren't equal to the Sahaba.

[OP No.18525572]

>>18525556
He's talking about the government which he sees as having that authority delegated it.

[OP No.18525588]

>>18525569
Shia make takfir of the Sahaba I know but I'm saying minor details of the Sahaba are important in Sunni jurisprudence because they help demarcate acceptable behavior as well, especially the Rashidun whose Sunnah is binding

[Anonymous No.18525598]

>>18525520
>Abu Bakr GOOD because... Abu Bakr GOOD!
Also, Sahaba are not "people of knowledge". The Twelve Imams are.

[Anonymous No.18525609]

>>18525572
There are Hadiths from the Imams saying that in their absence the Ummah should turn to the clerics for guidance. Since the task of the Imams is primarily guidance, Khomeini is interpreting the Imams were delegating Wilayah in those Hadiths. There is room for disagreement, but that does not seem implausible.

[Anonymous No.18525615]

>>18525598

[OP No.18525620]

>>18525598
Then you would say if any of them said Abu Bakr was good,he was wrong? If Ali, for example, who according to the Shia slew 40,000 men in battle, praised Abu Bakr, he would wrong? Or if Ja'far did?

[Anonymous No.18525623]

>>18525588
>Shia make takfir of the Sahaba
Not necessarily. It's more like some of them were greatly mislead after the Prophet's death, but that doesn't mean they disbelieved in Allah.
> I'm saying minor details of the Sahaba are important in Sunni jurisprudence
I didn't know that. In any case, the Sahaba of Imams were careful to record down many details and conversations from them. I don't know how much the Sunnis where similar in that regard.

[Anonymous No.18525629]

Is it true that the number '1' was erased by accident in the hadith about Aisha's age during consummation with Muhammad and he actually had sex with her when she was 19 and not 9?

[Anonymous No.18525631]

>>18525620
If it wasn't under said Taqiyyah, that is, if it wasn't said to those who would have otherwise started fighting and killing other Muslims, then I would take that.

[Anonymous No.18525646]

>>18525629
That doesn't seem likely. What seems more likely is that Aisha was simply lying when she said "9".

[Anonymous No.18525647]

Was Yazid I based?

[Anonymous No.18525653]

>>18525629
No

>>18525646
Why would she lie?

[OP No.18525675]

>>18525623
Rejecting the imams is considered on par with rejecting the prophets in most Shia aqidah I have read

According to that series of lessons a lot of what was recorded was sloppily copied

[Anonymous No.18525704]

>>18525653
I have no idea about this particular one, but in general she had incentive two lie for many reasons. First, to make it seem that she was his favorite wife, which is not true. There are sound Hadiths that the Prophet always praised Khadijah as his favorite wife, even after her death and even in the presence of Aisha, which made her very jealous. Second, to justify the arrogation of power of his father. The Prophet gave clear directions to the Ummah for everything. It is highly, highly unlikely that he would leave them to decide his successor on their own. Even so, some of the Sahabah disregarded his appointed successor and made a council to elect a leader from their own. Don't forget she was also on very bad terms with Ali and his family, so there is another incentive there as well.

[Anonymous No.18525715]

>>18525675
It is the rejection of one of the commands of the Prophet (though a very important one), but not a wholesale rejection. Which aqidah books have you read?

[Anonymous No.18525727]

>>18525704
Nice headcanon shia tranny.

[Anonymous No.18525736]

>>18525646
Aisha's age is confirmed by other primary sources

Narrated Hisham's father:

Khadija died three years before the Prophet (ﷺ) departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married `Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3896

[Anonymous No.18525739]

>>18525727
God knows it is the truth.
>tranny
Don't project your deviancy on other people.

[Anonymous No.18525745]

>>18525736
>bukhari
That is a book full of fabrications. I wouldn't trust most things written there.

[Anonymous No.18525751]

>>18525739
The truth is that Muhammad ﷺ liked his tight cunny wife the best and that’s literally canon. Cope.

[Anonymous No.18525757]

>>18525745
>That is a book full of fabrications
Your front hole will never be a vagina majoosi.

[Anonymous No.18525760]

>>18525751
The absolute state of Sunnism. May God forgive you for saying these things.

[Anonymous No.18525795]

>>18525751
It's funny to us, but it's caused far more suffering in the muslim world than pork ever could.

[Anonymous No.18525805]

>>18525795
Are these guys the ones who were BTFO'd by the Shia? Kek.

[Anonymous No.18525827]

>>18525704
So either you believe Muhammad was a pedo or he married histrionic opportunistic bitches that lied about him after he died.

What a mess.

[Anonymous No.18525835]

>>18525805
BTFO by Alawites and Christians. Even worse!

[Anonymous No.18525851]

>>18525795
Allah obliterated those murtads.

[Anonymous No.18525859]

>>18525629
No. It’s cope from Muslims who are too afraid to state Aisha (ra)’s actual age

[Anonymous No.18525873]

>>18525827
Anon, Aisha is even admonished in the Qur'an, and according to this Sunni book Bukhari, she had many, many arguments with him, perhaps being one of the very few Muslims who dared to do such a thing. He would have divorced him but a revelation had disallowed him to divorce anyone. She is literally an example for women on what not to be, and his behavior towards her is an example for men on how to treat their wives if they turned out to be like her.

[Anonymous No.18525882]

>>18525873
Literally every single thing you said is a lie majoosi.

[Anonymous No.18525894]

>>18525882
How do you explain this Hadith from Bukhari, narrated from Umar no less.

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

For the whole year I had the desire to ask 'Umar bin Al-Khattab regarding the explanation of a Verse (in Surat Al-Tahrim) but I could not ask him because I respected him very much. When he went to perform the Hajj, I too went along with him. On our return, while we were still on the way home. 'Umar went aside to answer the call of nature by the Arak trees. I waited till he finished and then I proceeded with him and asked him. "O chief of the Believers! Who were the two wives of the Prophet who aided one another against him?" He said, "They were Hafsa and 'Aisha." Then I said to him, "By Allah, I wanted to ask you about this a year ago, but I could not do so owing to my respect for you." 'Umar said, "Do not refrain from asking me. If you think that I have knowledge (about a certain matter), ask me;
and if I know (something about it), I will tell you." Then Umar added, "By Allah, in the Pre-lslamic Period of Ignorance we did not pay attention to women until Allah revealed regarding them what He revealed regarding them and assigned for them what He has assigned. Once while I was thinking over a certain matter, my wife said, "I recommend that you do so-and-so." I said to her, "What have you got to do with the is matter? Why do you poke your nose in a matter which I want to see fulfilled.?" She said, How strange you are, O son of Al-Khattab! You don't want to be argued with whereas your daughter, Hafsa surely, argues with Allah's Apostle so much that he remains angry for a full day!" 'Umar then reported;
how he at once put on his outer garment and went to Hafsa and said to her, "O my daughter! Do you argue with Allah's Apostle so that he remains angry the whole day?" H. afsa said, "By Allah, we argue with him." 'Umar said, "Know that I warn you of Allah's punishment and the anger of Allah's Apostle . . . O my daughter! Don't be betrayed by the one who is proud of her beauty because of the love of Allah's Apostle for her (i.e. 'Aisha)." 'Umar addled, "Then I went out to Um Salama's house who was one of my relatives, and I talked to her. She said, O son of Al-Khattab! It is rather astonishing that you interfere in everything;
you even want to interfere between Allah's Apostle and his wives!' By Allah, by her talk she influenced me so much that I lost some of my anger. I left her (and went home).

1/2

[Anonymous No.18525897]

>>18525882
At that time I had a friend from the Ansar who used to bring news (from the Prophet) in case of my absence, and I used to bring him the news if he was absent. In those days we were afraid of one of the kings of Ghassan tribe. We heard that he intended to move and attack us, so fear filled our hearts because of that. (One day) my Ansari friend unexpectedly knocked at my door, and said, "Open Open!' I said, 'Has the king of Ghassan come?' He said, 'No, but something worse;
Allah's Apostle has isolated himself from his wives.' I said, 'Let the nose of 'Aisha and Hafsa be stuck to dust (i.e. humiliated)!' Then I put on my clothes and went to Allah's Apostle's residence, and behold, he was staying in an upper room of his to which he ascended by a ladder, and a black slave of Allah's Apostle was (sitting) on the first step. I said to him, 'Say (to the Prophet ) 'Umar bin Al-Khattab is here.' Then the Prophet admitted me and I narrated the story to Allah's Apostle. When I reached the story of Um Salama, Allah's Apostle smiled while he was lying on a mat made of palm tree leaves with nothing between him and the mat. Underneath his head there was a leather pillow stuffed with palm fibres, and leaves of a saut tree were piled at his feet, and above his head hung a few water skins. On seeing the marks of the mat imprinted on his side, I wept. He said.' 'Why are you weeping?' I replied, "O Allah's Apostle! Caesar and Khosrau are leading the life (i.e. Luxurious life) while you, Allah's Apostle though you are, is living in destitute". The Prophet then replied. 'Won't you be satisfied that they enjoy this world and we the Hereafter?' "
Classification
Sahih (Authentic)

2/2
https://muflihun.com/bukhari/60/435

Am I lying? Is Umar lying? Is Bukhari lying? Who is lying here?

[Anonymous No.18525898]

Islam is based but is utterly laughable for its denial of the crucifixion of Jesus. They flounder hard when it is presented to them.

[Anonymous No.18525909]

>>18525894
>>18525897
Didn’t read.

>>18525898
God saved Abraham when he got thrown in a fire
Why wouldn’t he save Jesus?

[Anonymous No.18525917]

>>18525909
>Didn’t read.
Please read and explain why I'm wrong. Why do you run away from Hadith of Bukhari narrating Umar?

[Anonymous No.18525919]

>>18525909
Real question is why would he make believe humanity that Jesus was crucified. Does Allah prank mankind?

[Anonymous No.18525927]

>>18525909
Jesus was different from Abraham. Read stuff like Isaiah 53

[Anonymous No.18525937]

>>18525927
Retard

>>18525919
Because Hell needs to be filled (with christcucks)
You can’t have above a room temperature IQ and believe in the crucifixion. It requires stupidity or willful ignorance

[Anonymous No.18525940]

>>18525873
>He would have divorced him but a revelation had disallowed him to divorce anyone. She is literally an example for women on what not to be, and his behavior towards her is an example for men on how to treat their wives if they turned out to be like her.

Why? Doesn't that just mean Allah allows her to lie about Muhammad and distort history and lead millions into error?

[Anonymous No.18525946]

>>18525937
So you think Allah wants people to go in hell.

[Anonymous No.18525948]

>>18525937
>no arguments
The crucifixion debunks Islam. They have no comebacks. Jesus was crucified, died and was resurrected on the third day. Nothing else explains the rise of Christianity. All of this was foretold in the scriptures.

[Anonymous No.18525949]

>>18525946
Well, obviously. Free will is a christcuck spook. You’re either created for paradise or hell.

[Anonymous No.18525950]

>>18525898
The recent take now is that the Quran verse doesn't deny crucifixion, only that Jews believed they would erase Jesus with it. However, 95% of the exegesis throughout history has been to say unambiguously that Jesus was never crucified and it was someone else who took his place, as if people couldn't recognize his face or something.

[Anonymous No.18525953]

>>18525940
There is a sermon from Ali, saying that the hardest tests from Allah are not those that only test the disbelievers, but those that test the believers too. The Qur'an says clearly that only a minority will truly follow the religion of God.

[Anonymous No.18525955]

>>18525949
Islam is desert Calvinism.

[Anonymous No.18525957]

>>18525937
>willful ignorance
>says the one who is afraid of reading hadiths from his own religion because he can't explain them

[Anonymous No.18525961]

>>18525948
>All of this was foretold in the scriptures
Why did jews reject Jesus then?

[Anonymous No.18525969]

>>18525955
Calvinism is younger than Islam you dumb christshit

[Anonymous No.18525970]

>>18525949
Calvinism came to the same conclusion and calvinism solved abrahamism, it's fairly logical (and makes religion completely pointless as well).
Anyway the idea Allah pranked mankind swapping Jesus on the cross is still amusing.

[Anonymous No.18525974]

>>18525946
Allah wants people to sin so he can forgive them.
Sahih Muslim 2749:
"By Him in Whose Hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace (you by) those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them."

[Anonymous No.18525975]

>>18525949
If anyone is curious, the Shia position on free will is compatibilism.

[Anonymous No.18525978]

>>18525969
Augustianism on which calvinism is based predates islam by centuries. Islam is just a desert heresy from judeo-christianity.

[Anonymous No.18525982]

>>18525970
Islam solved abrahamism actually

>>18525974
Yep

[Anonymous No.18525988]

>>18525978
>judeo-christianity
Doesn’t exist
>heresy
Said the trinitarian lol

[Anonymous No.18525990]

>>18525982
No islam made it move back to petty legalism and mixed it with pagan arabic stuff like the cult of the black stone. Calvinism is by far the purer abrahamism.

[Anonymous No.18525994]

>>18525990
Okay retard
You’re obviously not from the elect

[Anonymous No.18525995]

>>18525988
>Doesn’t exist
That's the non-pauline christianity islam is based upon.

[Anonymous No.18525999]

>>18525995
That’s just islam

[Anonymous No.18526000]

>>18525994
No one can infer from wordly actions wether he's elected or not, many sinners are elected, many pious are not. Many such cases.

[Anonymous No.18526003]

>>18525999
No because islam added arabic pagan stuff to it like the cult of the black stone.

[Anonymous No.18526008]

>>18525961
Jesus didn’t do what the Jews expected of their messiah, not to mention him being killed and humiliated at their own hands. Jews wanted worldly power and their enemies defeated.

[Anonymous No.18526013]

>>18526000
Protip: you’re not “pious” if you’re a christcuck

[Anonymous No.18526015]

>>18525978
>judeo-christianity.
Get that disgusting word ‘judeo’ off of Christianity

[Anonymous No.18526023]

>>18526013
Irrelevant as to who is elected.
>>18526015
Again it specifically means non-pauline christianity that existed in pre-islamic arabia and from which Muhammad drew his knowledge to build his own cult.

[Anonymous No.18526040]

>>18526023
It’s not irrelevant you fucking retard
If you believe in the One God you are elect
This trivial requirement is however out of reach for 99.99% of people that ever existed.

[Anonymous No.18526043]

>>18526040
No, you're elect because God elected you and nothing else. Whatever you believe in doesn't change a thing to it.

[Anonymous No.18526049]

>>18525894
>>18525897
>still no answer
Sunnism BTFO.

[Anonymous No.18526056]

>>18526043
Retard

[Anonymous No.18526059]

Even the Quran authorizes pedophilia.

>O Prophet, when you [Muslims] divorce women, divorce them for [the commencement of] their waiting period and keep count of the waiting period,1 and fear Allah, your Lord.
>And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated.
https://quran.com/65

[Anonymous No.18526066]

>>18526056
Still no argument. You can't come to terms with the real implications of elections, that's because you're deep down a pagan arab worshipping a black stone. Calvinism is the only coherent abrahamism.

[Anonymous No.18526078]

>>18526066
Alright retard

>>18526059
Your wives are a tilth unto you
Simple as

[Anonymous No.18526085]

>>18526078
Alright pedo rapist.

[Anonymous No.18526090]

>>18526085
Can’t rape your wife
>but muh consent
Marriage is consent

[Anonymous No.18526095]

>>18526090
Children can't consent.

[Anonymous No.18526109]

>>18526095
Marriage is consent

[Anonymous No.18526125]

>>18526109
Children can't consent to marriage.

[Anonymous No.18526139]

>>18526125
The custodian’s is enough
Women’s opinions don’t matter anyway

[Anonymous No.18526152]

>>18526139
Therefore there's no consent of the child either to marriage or sex. So it's rape.

[Anonymous No.18526158]

>>18526152
Marriage is consent

[Anonymous No.18526164]

>>18526158
You just said the child's consent doesn't matter. Consent is the custodian's not the child

[Anonymous No.18526166]

>>18526164
Yes and it’s equally valid

[Anonymous No.18526177]

>>18526166
But there's no child's consent. Since the child doesn't consent to sex, it's rape.

[Anonymous No.18526178]

>>18526177
Marriage is consent

[Anonymous No.18526183]

>>18526178
The custodian's consent, not the child, but it's the child that has sex, not the custodian's.

[Anonymous No.18526186]

>ITT sub 80iq sunnis giving islam a bad rep
When will this stop?

[Anonymous No.18526192]

>>18526183
Irrelevant

>>18526186
Nooooooo not the heckin opticserino!
My IQ is 130 btw cope

[Anonymous No.18526196]

>>18526192
>Irrelevant
So that's my point there's no child's consent, and sex without consent is rape.

[Anonymous No.18526199]

>>18526192
Sure thing, Uthman.

[Anonymous No.18526200]

>>18526196
Marriage is consent

[Anonymous No.18526205]

>>18526196
In Shia Islam, a girl is only married after the puberty, and the consent of her as well as the guardian is required for the marriage.

[Anonymous No.18526209]

>>18526200
The custodian's consent, not the child, but it's the child that has sex, not the custodian's.

[Anonymous No.18526212]

>>18526205
Yeah fellate that christcuck cock tranny

[Anonymous No.18526213]

I was born to a twelver shia family. They aren't the most religious people, but im prettey happy to be apart of the community. They are nice people.

[Anonymous No.18526222]

>>18526199
It’s not even that high, midwit.

[Anonymous No.18526226]

You both have a combined IQ of two.

[Anonymous No.18526228]

>>18526222
Sure, your below 80 isn't that high, I agree. Good thing you know basic arithmetic, Uthman.

[Anonymous No.18526232]

>>18526212
That is the jurisprudence. Go explode yourself.

[Anonymous No.18526235]

>>18526228
So you’re saying that mensa test was fake? Damn

[Anonymous No.18526242]

>The Prophet (ﷺ) said, 'The (people of) Bani Israel used to take bath naked (all together) looking at each other. The Prophet (ﷺ) Moses used to take a bath alone. They said, 'By Allah! Nothing prevents Moses from taking a bath with us except that he has a scrotal hernia.' So once Moses went out to take a bath and put his clothes over a stone and then that stone ran away with his clothes. Moses followed that stone saying, "My clothes, O stone! My clothes, O stone! till the people of Bani Israel saw him and said, 'By Allah, Moses has got no defect in his body. Moses took his clothes and began to beat the stone." Abu Huraira added, "By Allah! There are still six or seven marks present on the stone from that excessive beating."

>Sahih al-Bukhari » Bathing (Ghusl) - كتاب الغسل » Hadith 278

This is what muslims actually have to believe.

[Anonymous No.18526247]

>>18526232
Shia “jurisprudence” is fictional

[Anonymous No.18526256]

>>18526242
That's hilarious.

[Anonymous No.18526257]

>>18526242

[Anonymous No.18526267]

>>18526242
I don’t “have to” but I do anyway

[Anonymous No.18526291]

>>18526242
pbuh

[Anonymous No.18526297]

>During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.

Sahih al-Bukhari 3849

[Anonymous No.18526304]

>>18526297
>tfw you will never stone thot monke with you monke brothers
Was islam the original return to monke?

[Anonymous No.18526306]

>>18526247
Anons ITT are making a good case that your hadith books are fictional.

[Anonymous No.18526322]

>The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "If anyone of you rouses from sleep and performs the ablution, he should wash his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out thrice, because Satan has stayed in the upper part of his nose all the night."

Shaytan!!

[Anonymous No.18526321]

>>18525897
>I said, 'Let the nose of 'Aisha and Hafsa be stuck to dust (i.e. humiliated)!'
What did Umar mean by this?

[Anonymous No.18526344]

>>18526322
Is that why Allah loves sneezing? >>18525422
Maybe sneezing is a body reaction to expel Satan from your nose. That doesn't explain how Satan profit off yawning though. I guess Satan enters your mouth when you yawn and settles in your nose, then you have to sneeze to expel him. Thus there's a cycle of Satan exterior -> mouth -> nose -> exterior.

[Anonymous No.18526355]

>>18525422
>>18526322
wtf

[Anonymous No.18526418]

>>18526306
Keep sucking those christcuck balls majoos.

[Anonymous No.18526429]

>>18526418
That language is not becoming of a Muslim. I'm sure your caliphs are proud of you.

[Anonymous No.18526515]

>>18525969
your point?

[Anonymous No.18526518]

>>18526059
Disgusting.

[Anonymous No.18526573]

>>18526242
This is hilarious but also retarded. All (every) hadith is bidah.

[Anonymous No.18526576]

As I understand, Islam says you shouldn't believe things which are contrary to reason just because others say it's true. The trinity is often used as an example. That's fine.

But why should I believe everything Muhammad did is great, just because I accept the premise of pure monotheism? I realize the Muslim argument in defence of his pedophilia is begging the question. But to me, that's not reasonable. It doesn't follow that pure monotheism means Muhammad is a legitimate prophet and that everything he did was good.

[Anonymous No.18526595]

>>18526576
Islam is not pure monotheism anyway, it believes in the Quran uncreatedness ie the Quran is a secondary God coeternal with Allah.

[Anonymous No.18526602]

>>18524934
I always recommend the 40 ahadith, as well as reading Tafsir Ibn Kathir for direct relevance to the Quran.

[Anonymous No.18526824]

>>18526595
No, it believes the Quran is literally the speech of Allah.
>>18526576
Pedophilia is a modern concept. Islam is has the concept of "if you're old enough to bear a responsibility, you should do it."

You go through puberty, you should be getting married and having kids.

[Anonymous No.18526838]

>>18526824
>No, it believes the Quran is literally the speech of Allah.
A speech is created. If the Quran is uncreated it means it always existed aside Allah.

[Anonymous No.18526844]

>>185268249
No one has gone through puberty at 9, in most cases it hasn't even started.

[Anonymous No.18526852]

>>18526824
>Pedophilia is a modern concept. Islam is has the concept of "if you're old enough to bear a responsibility, you should do it."

But see I don't believe that. To me it's just question begging and ad hoc justifications. If the hadith said Aisha was 19 you would support it. There's no reason for me to assume Muhammad's good character just because of pure monotheism.

[Anonymous No.18526856]

>>18526824
So I should have become a father when I was 14? That's fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.18526862]

>>18526852
>hadith
do you know that the hadith is not accepted by all branches of Islam?

[Anonymous No.18526864]

>>18526852
We assume his good character because he shows it in everything he did. Aisha was 6 when they got married, but he waited until her first period at 9 to consummate.

Especially given the short lifespans of people 1400 years ago, it makes sense to breed early and often.

[Anonymous No.18526866]

>>18526856
You were capable of it. God’s design is superior to your cultural fictions

[Anonymous No.18526879]

>>18526856
Well, most males don't become men until their 40s or 50s these days, so no. Men were real men in the 6th century.

[Anonymous No.18526882]

>>18526864
Retarded argument, child pregnancy is actually extremly dangerous for children because their bodies isn't developped enough childbearing and birth.

[Anonymous No.18526897]

>>18526882
Again, look at the difference in mental and physical maturity of the 6th century and today. People who lived to 60 were in amazingly good shape. Children matured faster because it was necessary.

[Anonymous No.18526913]

>>18526897
Ah yes the magic puberty bullshit again. If anything, puberty hitted much later then than now, it has been constantly receding. There's no way a 9 years old girl was in shape for childbearing even in 7th century Arabia.

[Anonymous No.18526922]

>>18526595
>Islam is not pure monotheism anyway
pure copejection

[Anonymous No.18526929]

>>18526922
You worship the Quran as a coeternal God.

[Anonymous No.18526939]

>>18526929
nobody worships the quran you retarded christcuck

[Anonymous No.18526942]

>>18526913
“I was then brought to the Messenger of Allah, and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.
Abu Dawud said: That is to say: I MENSTRUATED, and I was brought in a house, and there were some women of the Ansari in it. They said: With good luck and blessing. The tradition of one of them has been included in the other.” (Sunan Abi Dawud Book 42, Hadith 4915. Eng. Tran., Sahih al-Albani, https://sunnah.com/abudawud/43/161 )

[Anonymous No.18526951]

>>18526942
First menstruation =/ end of the puberty.

[Anonymous No.18526956]

>>18526939
You say it's uncreated, it implies it is a coeternal God with Allah.

[Anonymous No.18527513]

>>18526866
That's so retarded. You're willfully playing stupid for the sake of argument.

[Anonymous No.18527516]

>>18526897
Ad hoc justifications. Again, I'm supposed to believe something that's irrational because someone else says it's true.

[Anonymous No.18527585]

It's strange to me that Muslims accord the same level of trust to hadiths that they do to the Quran. It lessens the value of the Quran by making it need other messages, not delivered by God.

[Anonymous No.18527626]

>>18527516
It's irrational to not breed a woman when she's ready, but we have all these stupid ideals like consent and women's rights. Where has that got us?

We should still be clubbing women and fucking them in our caves.

[Anonymous No.18527647]

>It's strange to me that Muslims accord the same level of trust to hadiths that they do to the Quran. It [headcanon]

[Anonymous No.18527698]

>>18527585
All of that was delivered through the messenger. Since the Quran is not able to be understood by itself, the messenger is the example.

We have a single interpretation of our religion that is valid. Every deviant sect's differences can be disputed by the Quran and Sunnah. Only Al-Islam can't. There is no "Well, this Bible verse made me feel this way, so I'm doing this." There's only "Allah says this, or the prophet said or did this." It's clear.

A lot of the stigma associated with Islam is due to deviants hanging on our banner (Nation, 5 percenters, Shiites, Khawarij (which most of the terrorist groups fall under), and others).

[Anonymous No.18527727]

>>18527626
Very young parents don't have the life experience to produce emotionally well balanced children. You can say that this wasn't the case at the time, but it doesn't follow that since pure monotheism is true, then you should be having kids as soon as you're sexually able.

[Anonymous No.18527741]

>>18527698
>We have a single interpretation of our religion that is valid. Every deviant sect's differences can be disputed by the Quran and Sunnah.

Islam immediately splintered after the death of Muhammad, and various hadiths contradict each other. Every sect will say their interpretation is correct.

[Anonymous No.18527752]

>>18527727
We're stuck with poor breeding stock until we can build an Islamic state and educate people properly. A restriction on Islam is that we have to obey the law of the land unless it prevents us from worshipping, so we stick with the age of consent laws in backwards countries.

[Anonymous No.18527764]

>>18527741
No hadiths with sound chains of narration contradict each other.

And yeah, the splinter was inevitable. The prophet said Jews would have 71 sects, Christians would have 72, and Islam would have 73. Stupid people like to warp religion to fit their desires. Look at churches ordaining gays and trannies.

[Anonymous No.18527767]

>>18527752
Mental gymnastics.

[Anonymous No.18527772]

>>18527764
>No hadiths with sound chains of narration contradict each other.

But every sect will claim their chain of narration is sound.

[Anonymous No.18527779]

>>18527764
By that logic, one should convert to Judaism, since not only does it affirm pure monotheism, but it is the least splintered religion, giving you the highest chance of being in the correct sect.

[Anonymous No.18527793]

>>18527772
Not really. Sound is undeniable. You'll usually have multiple narrations of the same companion going to whoever recorded it.

A lot of the deviants ignore the Hadith (Warith Deen Muhammad is one) because they speak against the deviants.

[Anonymous No.18527804]

>>18527793
Shias place as much scholarly emphasize on sound hadith.

[Anonymous No.18527812]

>>18527626
Ok child rapist.

[Anonymous No.18527813]

>>18527779
The thing is, Judaism and Christianity WERE Islam, but they corrupted it either intentionally (the Jews) or out of ignorance (the Christians).

[Anonymous No.18527818]

>>18527804
Shias believe Allah made a mistake in giving the revelation to Muhammed.

A perfect, omnipotent being making a mistake.

Throw all Shia bullshit out the window after that.

[Anonymous No.18527819]

>>18527813
Sure. That still doesn't make Muhammad a legitimate prophet, and it can't justify his every whim being holy.

[Anonymous No.18527821]

>>18527813
>or out of ignorance (the Christians).

What made Jesus such an ineffective prophet?

[Anonymous No.18527822]

>>18527818
>Shias believe Allah made a mistake in giving the revelation to Muhammed.
Kek what? Where did you get that from?

[Anonymous No.18527823]

>>18527818
>Shias believe Allah made a mistake in giving the revelation to Muhammed.
bullshit, I refuse to believe they'd be this blatant

[Anonymous No.18527824]

>>18527812
You can't rape your wife.

[Anonymous No.18527833]

>>18527824
Stay out of the west. Muslims combine black victim status with Jewish victim status, but when their numbers are big enough they start promoting child rape...

[Anonymous No.18527834]

>>18527821
He was fine. The Jews weren't.
>>18527819
His every whim was halal because he was the best example of humanity. He didn't shit gold. He wasn't infallible. He was a man. He sinned because we had to know how to deal with sin.

[Anonymous No.18527844]

>>18527834
>His every whim was halal because he was the best example of humanity.

Raping a 9 year and marrying your adopted son's wife is the best example Muslims can think of? This is why I'm unable to recite the shahada in full. No, Muhammad is not God's messenger.

[Anonymous No.18527853]

>>18527834
>He was fine. The Jews weren't.

How come a prophet was sent with a less than 1% effectiveness?

[Anonymous No.18527855]

>>18527834
>He sinned because we had to know how to deal with sin.
By "he" do you mean Muhammad ﷺ? Are you claiming Muhammad ﷺ committed sins?

[Anonymous No.18527860]

>>18527844
>marrying your adopted son
Have you read the full story? The adopted son had the habit of marrying and divorcing different wives frequently. He married one of the his adopted son's ex-wives. What is wrong with that?

[Anonymous No.18527869]

>>18527822
They believe Ali should have been the messenger instead of Muhammad, and that he was even denied the consolation prize of being the first Caliph. None of this reflects on Ali himself, though, who was pious.

I don't want to dive into Rafida shit, though.

[Anonymous No.18527871]

>>18527860
He's using religion to justify his whims. It's obvious if you haven't had your brain turned off by accepting Muhammad as perfect in order for pure monotheism to work.

[Anonymous No.18527876]

>>18527824
Children can't consent neither to marriage nor to sex.

[Anonymous No.18527877]

>>18527869
Is that true? I thought Twelvers didn't believe that. Why is there so much confusion surrounding Islam and the first Muslims?

[Anonymous No.18527885]

>>18527855
He prayed for his uncle, Abu Talib, after he died. Since Abu Talib died a nonbeliever, that was forbidden.
>>18527853
Noah preached for like 900 years and converted less than 10 people.
>>18527844
You can't rape your wife.

[Anonymous No.18527896]

>>18527876
Yet they can consent to HRT and genital mutilation. Interesting.

[Anonymous No.18527899]

>>18527869
That is just not right, anon. I don't know who told you that, but I am a Shia and I've never heard such a thing. Shia believe Muhammad ﷺ appointed Ali as his successor to guide the Ummah after his death. He had a famous sermon during his last Hajj - the Event of Ghadir Khumm - where he declared Ali is his successor, and all the Sahaba made Bay'ah with him. It's worth looking into Ghadir Khumm's sermon.

[Anonymous No.18527905]

>>18527877
see: >>18527899
Sunnis seem to have a lot of misconceptions about Shi'ism

[Anonymous No.18527906]

>>18527896
They cannot either.

[Anonymous No.18527908]

>>18527899
You're Rafida and you follow liars. You need to talk to one of your bogus "scholars."

[Anonymous No.18527910]

>>18527885
>Noah preached for like 900 years and converted less than 10 people.

An massive religion started from Jesus though, but it actually 1% of his followers understood him.

[Anonymous No.18527913]

>>18527885
Shia believe Abu Talib was a believer under Taqqiyyah. There are a lot of books written about that.

[Anonymous No.18527919]

>>18527913
Rafida are fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.18527921]

>>18527908
I have talked to them and read many of their books. Even Sunni scholars acknowledge Ghadir's sermon, anon. I don't need to lie on the internet about what I believe in.

[Anonymous No.18527923]

One thing I've noticed is how typically resentful and angry the Sunnis are compared to the Shia.

Is it a Sunni hadith to be a dick and a nuisance wherever you go?

[Anonymous No.18527927]

It's funny how sunnis get aggressive when they see a Shia, for no reason at all. Kek

[Anonymous No.18527928]

>>18527923
shias suck up to christcucks because they're basedboys

[Anonymous No.18527932]

>>18527885
>He prayed for his uncle, Abu Talib, after he died. Since Abu Talib died a nonbeliever, that was forbidden.

Praying for an unbeliever is Muhammad's big sin and not child rape and the other vulgar stuff he did?

[Anonymous No.18527936]

>>18527928
But this is a global thing. Sunnis aren't liked anywhere they go. Not even Buddhists can stand them.

What causes such arrogance?

[Anonymous No.18527944]

>>18527921
It's as relevant as those dates when QAnon fags say Trump will regain office. Ali gave his bayah to Abu Bakr, and anyone who wasn't Rafida followed.

[Anonymous No.18527961]

>>18527932
That's the only thing that I know of that was a sin. Who knows what happened in private. He said astagh firul lah 70 times a day, so he did something.

As far as the "child rape" thing, get off your high horse and embrace the lolis.

[Anonymous No.18527968]

>>18527944
>comparing important islamic events to american politics of spectacle
Anyway, who cares about politics. The authority of the Imam is a spiritual one, and his duty is to guide those who can be guided.

[Anonymous No.18527980]

>>18527968
There's nothing important about Ghadir Khumm.

[Anonymous No.18527993]

>>18527932
Muhammad ﷺ was infallible. Shia theology argues that in order for a Prophet to successfully transmit the message of Allah, he needs to be exempt from error (otherwise the message of God would be liable to error). All the stuff about Aisha's age is sunni fabrications. According to Shia sources, Aisha was 13 when married, and 17 when the marriage was consummated.

[Anonymous No.18528021]

>>18527993
That's a remarkably sensible take.

[Anonymous No.18528075]

>>18524934
>>18524965
Incredible samefagging itt. Yet another reminder why you should never let a third-worlder get anywhere near a computer with internet access

[Anonymous No.18528498]

>>18527871
I read his biography before turning Muslim. He married the ex-wife of the adopted son after their divorce. He even admonished him for changing wives so frequently before deciding to marry her.

[Anonymous No.18528543]

>>18527871
Even Aisha alluded to the fact Muhammad was making up verses when it suited him.

Narrated Aisha:

I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (33.51) I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."
https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4788

This hadith also >>18525461

There's also that verse that forbids muslims to fuck Mo's wives after his death. I think the most hilarious guru tier made up revelation is the verse where Allah tells Muhammad companions to fuck off his house because he's too shy to tell them

>O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that [behavior] was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of [dismissing] you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not [conceivable or lawful] for you to harm the Messenger of Allah or to marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that would be in the sight of Allah an enormity.
33:53

[Anonymous No.18528561]

>>18528543
Lmfao

[Anonymous No.18528581]

>>18528498
He made them divorce though.

[Anonymous No.18528584]

>>18528543
False hadith.
>too shy
It's ridiculous to say Muhammad the warlord was "too shy" to tell people to leave, especially when all of his commands were obeyed without question. He didn't need to make up verses to tell people to leave, he could have just as well told them to. The verse just shows that he too considerate of his followers, and God was considerate of him.

[Anonymous No.18528595]

>>18528581
That is just false. He talked with the stepson to dissuade him from the divorce, but he nevertheless did it as was his habit. It was only after the divorce that he married her.

[Anonymous No.18528600]

>>18528543
Yeah, this sounds exactly like how cult leaders act. Reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW0CO2F-q60

[Anonymous No.18528609]

>>18528595
He saw his son's wife naked and then mentioned it to his son, and then they divorced (totally unrelated right?) and then Muhammad hears from God that he should marry her.

[Anonymous No.18528615]

>>18528584
Muhammad was a schizoid (not schizophrenic)
This is perfectly in line

[Anonymous No.18528620]

>>18528600
Fascinating. Guru tricks never change.

[Anonymous No.18528622]

>>18528584
>The verse just shows that he too considerate of his followers, and God was considerate of him.

laughing at the audacity of muslim damage control

it's always some mental gymnastics and then [absolutely banal moral lesson]

[Anonymous No.18528627]

>>18528622
that's not a muslim you dumb christcuck

[Anonymous No.18528632]

>>18528627

[Anonymous No.18528637]

>>18528632
you're crying about muh pedophilia and shit though lol

[Anonymous No.18528643]

>>18528609
>He saw his son's wife naked and then mentioned it to his son
What is this falsehood? Stop repeating lies. This is what in the biography is written about the divorce:
>Some say that the reason for this separation was the mentality of Zayd's wife, as she mentioned the lowness of her husband's descent to his very face and prided herself on account of the greatness of her own family and had thus made his life bitter for him. However, it is probable that Zayd himself might have been responsible for the divorce, because his biography shows that he led a sequestered life, as he married many women and divorced all of them (except the last one who was still alive when he was killed in a battle) and these successive divorces show that Zayd possessed a spirit of unsociability. The second testimony about the view that Zayd had a share in this incident is the harsh manner in which the Prophet addressed him. Because, when the Prophet came to know that Zayd had decided to divorce his wife, he was annoyed and said: "Keep your wife and fear Allah's wrath". In case the fault was entirely his wife's, Zayd's separating from her was not contrary to piety and virtue. Eventually, Zayd separated from Zaynab.

[Anonymous No.18528647]

>>18528637
christianity and the west lives rent-free in muslims heads and they seethe when the rest of the world find their prophet disgusting

[Anonymous No.18528648]

>>18528584
Hadith is sahih and verse is from the Quran itself.

[Anonymous No.18528655]

>>18528643
>Oh, but pro-muslim sources say he dindu nuffin

again, mental gymnastics cope and it's conclude with an absolutely banal moral lesson

[Anonymous No.18528656]

>>18526852
A difference between Islam and western secularists is that westerners simply choose to believe in what is useful.

[Anonymous No.18528660]

>>18528648
Hadith is weak as it is from sunni sources. The translation is bad.

[Anonymous No.18528668]

>>18528655
Who should I believe? A seething spammer who reposts things that are not in line with the Prophet's life, or the scholarly biography of him from one of the most respected ulema?

[Anonymous No.18528669]

>>18528656
>You don't like pedophilia? You simply are against nature and simply believe in what is useful. I'll move to your country anyway.

[Anonymous No.18528670]

>>18527626
Rapefugee mindset.

[Anonymous No.18528673]

>>18528668
I don't care

[Anonymous No.18528677]

>>18528673
If you don't care, why are you spamming it then? I see you posting this in every Islamic threads. Clearly you don't care right?

[Anonymous No.18528678]

>>18528660
That's saheeh international.
Other translations give the same meaning

> Surely that (Literally: those) hurts the Prophet, so he (feels) shy before you; and Allah does not shy from the truth.
Dr Ghali

> This (conduct of yours) hurts the Prophet, but he feels shy of (telling) you (about it), but Allah is not shy of the truth.
Mufti Taqi Usmani

>Lo! that would cause annoyance to the Prophet, and he would be shy of (asking) you (to go); but Allah is not shy of the truth.
Pickthall

[Anonymous No.18528683]

Reminder that muslims kill other muslims all the time (just like they did to three of their own caliphs, and to muhammad's family) and ISIS is real islam and it is crazy.

Not even muslims like muslims.

[Anonymous No.18528685]

>>18527752
>so we stick with the age of consent laws in backwards countries
>backwards countries

Why do you live there then? Fucking parasite. If you want to be a pedophile go back to your desert, no one will stop you.

[Anonymous No.18528687]

>>18528647
funny because it seems to be "living rent-free" in YOUR head

[Anonymous No.18528689]

>>18528678
>saheeh international
Literally known as the worst translation. Even the chart on /lit/'s wiki says avoid it. Nasr's translation is this:
>Truly that would affront the Prophet, and he would shrink from telling you, but God shrinks not from the truth.
Which is in line with what I have said.

[Anonymous No.18528695]

>>18527834
>he sinned but it was perfect
..

[Anonymous No.18528697]

>>18528689
Same meaning, Muhammad is shy to tell his mate to leave his houses and Allah thankfully reveal verses to tell them in his place.

[Anonymous No.18528701]

>>18528685
Indeed, they act like victims here and complain that people don't drop their own standards and customs down to their level to accept them.

It's a sin to leave muslim lands anyway. But obviously they can't stand to live in muslim societies and prefer atheist lgbt tranny kaffir or whatever shit they'll accuse the west of.

[Anonymous No.18528707]

>>18528697
So you say, if he told them directly the wouldn't leave? Are you not aware that they obeyed him perfectly without needing to recite verses?

[Anonymous No.18528724]

Israeli here

do not trust muslims. They cry about morality until they get the chance to peacefully bomb your cities.

[Anonymous No.18528731]

>>18528695
People who ascribe any kind of perfection to Muhammed are disbelievers. He was a man who made mistakes and sinned like everyone else.

[Anonymous No.18528732]

I like the hadiths about Muhammad's friend Umar sexually harassing Muhammad's wives as they shitted and pissed outside in order to force Muhammad to get a revelation about the hijab.


Narrated 'Aisha: The wives of the Prophet used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place (near Baqia at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. 'Umar used to say to the Prophet "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's Apostle did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zam'a the wife of the Prophet went out at 'Isha' time and she was a tall lady. 'Umar addressed her and said, "I have recognized you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of "Al-Hijab" (A complete body cover excluding the eyes).

Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) 'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to say to Allah's Apostle "Let your wives be veiled" But he did not do so. The wives of the Prophet used to go out to answer the call of nature at night only at Al-Manasi.' Once Sauda, the daughter of Zam'a went out and she was a tall woman. 'Umar bin Al-Khattab saw her while he was in a gathering, and said, "I have recognized you, O Sauda!" He ('Umar) said so as he was anxious for some Divine orders regarding the veil (the veiling of women.) So Allah revealed the Verse of veiling. (Al-Hijab; a complete body cover excluding the eyes). (See Hadith No. 148, Vol. 1)

'A'isha reported that the wives of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) used to go out in the cover of night when they went to open fields (in the outskirts of Medina) for easing themselves. 'Umar b Khattab used to say: Allah's Messenger, ask your ladies to observe veil, but Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) did not do that. So there went out Sauda, daughter of Zarn'a, the wife of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), during one of the nights when it was dark. She was a tall statured lady. 'Umar called her saying: Sauda, we recognise you. (He did this with the hope that the verses pertaining to veil would be revealed.) 'A'isha said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, then revealed the verses pertaining to veil.

[Anonymous No.18528734]

>>18528731
>>18527834
This person is a Shiite. Do not give credence to his opinions.

[Anonymous No.18528735]

>>18528731
The muslim girl I'm saying says he was perfect because god said so.

[Anonymous No.18528736]

>>18528732
false hadiths

[Anonymous No.18528737]

>>18528707
Shrinking from upsetting his friends is indeed shy behaviour, especially if they would have obeyed. An outward personality would simply tell them nicely but firmly they should leave after the meal, instead of waiting for Allah to tell them.
That's just in line with the many oddities of his character. He was clearly schizoid as many cult leaders are. One shouldn't be surprised, a cult leader authority is of a different nature than say a military officer.

[Anonymous No.18528738]

>>18528732
How can people believe this shit?

[Anonymous No.18528743]

>>18528736
They're from Bukhari and Muslim. They're authentic and you have to believe him.

[Anonymous No.18528744]

>>18528734
I'm not the Shiite guy. I subscribe to Al-Islam.

[Anonymous No.18528752]

>>18528735
She's committing shirk al-akbar. Tell her I said that

[Anonymous No.18528753]

>>18528743
sunni sources are fabricated

[Anonymous No.18528755]

>>18528732
>>18528736
> Umar said, "I agreed with Allah in three things," or said, "My Lord agreed with me in three things. I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Would that you took the station of Abraham as a place of prayer.' I also said, 'O Allah's Apostle! Good and bad persons visit you! Would that you ordered the Mothers of the believers to cover themselves with veils.' So the Divine Verses of Al-Hijab (i.e. veiling of the women) were revealed. I came to know that the Prophet had blamed some of his wives so I entered upon them and said, 'You should either stop (troubling the Prophet ) or else Allah will give His Apostle better wives than you.' When I came to one of his wives, she said to me, 'O 'Umar! Does Allah's Apostle haven't what he could advise his wives with, that you try to advise them?' " Thereupon Allah revealed:--

> "It may be, if he divorced you (all) his Lord will give him instead of you, wives better than you Muslims (who submit to Allah).." (66.5)

> Narrated Umar: I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Good and bad persons enter upon you, so I suggest that you order the mothers of the Believers (i.e. your wives) to observe veils." Then Allah revealed the Verses of Al-Hijab.

> Ibn Umar reported Umar as saying: My lord concorded with (my judgments) on three occasions. In case of the Station of Ibrahim, in case of the observance of veil and in case of the prisoners of Badr.

[Anonymous No.18528761]

>>18528755
>>18528732
So Umar forces the hand of God and acts like he was deserving of being Allah's messenger?

What a fucking mess.

[Anonymous No.18528762]

>>18528755
Yeah, Umar wasn't "rightly guided" for nothing.

[Anonymous No.18528766]

>>18528737
>Shrinking
As I said, he was too considerate of his followers.
>different nature than say a military officer
He attended the battles in person and directed his army himself.

[Anonymous No.18528769]

>>18528761
>So [headcanon]?
Why are christshits like this?

[Anonymous No.18528770]

>>18528761
>>18528755
Umar is cursed by the Shia.

[Anonymous No.18528779]

>>18528752
>Tell her I said that
You have no power over me.

We love each other, and no death threat is going to change that.

[Anonymous No.18528785]

>>18528762
top kek

[Anonymous No.18528788]

>>18528755
>>18528732
No wonder Muslim women are all miserable.

[Anonymous No.18528795]

>>18528785
I'm not joking by the way

[Anonymous No.18528900]

>The marriage of the Prophet with Zaynab is a simple matter which is free from all ambiguities. However, as some orientalists have made this incident a pretext for misleading the simple-minded and ignorant people and have in this way tried to weaken the faith of those who do not have correct information about the character of the Prophet, it appears necessary that we should examine the remarks of this group of the orientalists and make matters clear. With the imagination peculiar to the people of the West they have given this marriage, the sole object of which was to abolish a false custom, the colour of 'love' and, fabricated a story, like the novelists and the story-tellers, associated it with the most sacred personality of the human world. In any case the basis of this fiction are the sentences which have been quoted by Tabari4 and by Ibn Athir5 and some exegetes to the effect that one day the Prophet chanced to see Zaynab, the wife of Zayd. Zayd felt that the Prophet had fallen in love with Zaynab. On account of the excessive regard which he had for the Prophet he came before him and proposed to divorce Zaynab, so that there might be no impediment in the way of the Prophet marrying her. The Prophet repeatedly forbade him to divorce his wife, but he eventually divorced her and the Prophet married her. However, the orientalists, instead of studying authentic history, have not contented themselves even with this fabricated story and have embellished it so much that it has assumed the shape of the stories of the Arabian Nights. No doubt those persons, who are acquainted with the lofty character of the Prophet have treated the original story and the embellishments thereon to be fabricated and a mere fancy and whim as they are absolutely incompatible with the positive standards of the life of the Prophet of Islam. Moreover, scholars like Fakhr-i Razi and Alusi have clearly contradicted this story and say that it has been fabricated by the enemies of Islam and circulated amongst the Muslim writers.6

https://www.al-islam.org/the-message-ayatullah-jafar-subhani/chapter-36-events-fifth-year-migration

[Anonymous No.18529517]

>>18526242
>>18526242
>They said, 'By Allah! Nothing prevents Moses from taking a bath with us except that he has a scrotal hernia.' So once Moses went out to take a bath and put his clothes over a stone and then that stone ran away with his clothes. Moses followed that stone saying, "My clothes, O stone! My clothes, O stone! till the people of Bani Israel saw him and said, 'By Allah, Moses has got no defect in his body. Moses took his clothes and began to beat the stone." Abu Huraira added, "By Allah! There are still six or seven marks present on the stone from that excessive beating."