/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18523059]

Would you consider this book at all homoerotic?

[Anonymous No.18523077]

>>18523059
No only a pervert would

[Anonymous No.18523098]

>>18523059
No.

[Anonymous No.18523103]

>>18523059
I've never read it.

[Anonymous No.18523141]

>>18523059
It has elements of homoeroticism but they're mostly played for laughs and don't really have anything to do with the main themes of the book.

[Anonymous No.18523245]

There's references to sailors sexing each other because it's about sailors and that happens

[Anonymous No.18523267]

>>18523059
The part where Ishmael and Queequeg share a bed is pretty homoerotic. But it’s also meant to be funny.

[Anonymous No.18523271]

that bit where he sleeps in the same bed as queequeg was a bit gay. im pretty sure melville was gay. i've read typee, omoo, mardi, redburn, whitejacket and billy budd. he always spends way more time telling you how the men look than he does with women which is something i've noticed in mishima's work as well. i can post an example if anyone wants.

[Anonymous No.18523355]

>>18523271
Yes - there’s always that empty feeling when your straight friend leaves your company to spend time with his girlfriend.

Straight males always miss the tell tale sign that someone is gay namely that women are absent from what a gay man thinks about as clearly shown in Melville’s work.

[Anonymous No.18523359]

>>18523355
maybe Melville was just based and knew women arent worth writing about?

[Anonymous No.18523370]

>>18523077
t. Closeted homosexual

[Anonymous No.18523411]

>>18523059
Unwitting of the dark family history, Melville found himself under “this Hawthorne’s spell” — a spell cast first by his writing, then by the constellation of personal qualities from which the writing radiated. Who hasn’t fallen in love with an author in the pages of a beautiful book? And if that author, when befriended in the real world, proves to be endowed with the splendor of personhood that the writing intimates, who could resist falling in love with the whole person? Melville presaged as much:

>No man can read a fine author, and relish him to his very bones, while he reads, without subsequently fancying to himself some ideal image of the man and his mind… There is no man in whom humor and love are developed in that high form called genius; no such man can exist without also possessing, as the indispensable complement of these, a great, deep intellect, which drops down into the universe like a plummet. Or, love and humor are only the eyes, through which such an intellect views this world. The great beauty in such a mind is but the product of its strength.

After comparing Hawthorne to Shakespeare, he writes:

>In this world of lies, Truth is forced to fly like a scared white doe in the woodlands; and only by cunning glimpses will she reveal herself, as in Shakespeare and other masters of the great Art of Telling the Truth, — even though it be covertly, and by snatches.

[Anonymous No.18523417]

>>18523411
After Hawthorne read Moby-Dick—which was dedicated to him—he sent Melville a letter. That letter has not survived (nor any of Hawthorne’s letters to Melville—which begs the question: why did Melville destroy these?, but anyway), but Melville’s response, written in November of 1851, suggests that his friend rather liked his novel. So is it a love letter? Even if they were never more than friends, I’d have to say yes. I mean, “Knowing you persuades me more than the Bible of our immortality,” and “I feel that the Godhead is broken up like the bread at the Supper, and that we are the pieces”? Damn. Romantic or not, that’s some passionate correspondence.

[Anonymous No.18523425]

>>18523141
An homoerotic interpretation is not completely out of place tho.

[Anonymous No.18523434]

>one of the biggest workd of american literature
>main protagonist sleeps with a nigger in less than five chapters
EVERY.
GODDAMN.
TIME.

[Anonymous No.18523437]

Absolutely. Here's a passage from A Squeeze of the Hand.
Squeeze! Squeeze! Squeeze! All the morning long; i squeezed that sperm till i myself almost melted into it; i squeezed that sperm till a strange sort of insanity came over me; and i found myself unwittingly squeezing my co-laborers' hands in it, mistaking their hands for the gentle globules. Such an abounding, affectionate, friendly, loving feeling did this avocation beget; that at last i was continually squeezing their hands, and looking up into their eyes sentimentally; as much to say, - Oh! My dear fellow beings, why should we longer cherish any social acerbities, or know the slightest ill-humor or envy! Come; let us squeeze hands all round; nay, let us squeeze outselves into the very milk and sperm of kindness.
Now tell me you didn't think "this is some gay shit."
That's not to say he's bad. He's just gay. Ishmael also marries queequeg. Even this passage seems to be about enjoying faggot joy despite social acerbities like stigma of faggots - why else would that be mentioned? Then he says COME, let us squeeze ourselves INTO the milf of human kindness. The way of describing how he feels with the strange insanity literally feels like romantic love (tho you faggots wouldn't know bout dah).
Conclusion: it's gay as fuck, and still amazing writing.

[Anonymous No.18523450]

I think people who say it isn't gay are probably uncomfortable with gayness and don't want to see it in their fav works.

Sodomy is based.

[Anonymous No.18523468]

>>18523450
Nice bluepill you throw there.

[Anonymous No.18523625]

>>18523059
I would say no because it isn't a central part of the story, but one would be hard pressed to say Moby Dick doesn't have a little bit of the gay going on.

[Anonymous No.18523637]

>>18523359
its not that he writes about men its that he writes about how men LOOK, and in great detail. take this passage from redburn:
>I made the acquaintance of a handsome, accomplished, but unfortunate youth, young Harry Bolton. He was one of those small, but perfectly formed beings, with curling hair, and silken muscles, who seem to have been born in cocoons. His complexion was a mantling brunette, feminine as a girl's; his feet were small; his hands were white; and his eyes were large, black, and womanly; and, poetry aside, his voice was as the sound of a harp.
>His beauty, dress, and manner struck me as so out of place in such a street, that I could not possibly divine what had transplanted this delicate exotic from the conservatories of some Regent-street to the untidy potato-patches of Liverpool.
all this after describing the three most beautiful women he's ever seen only as having red cheeks. 1/3

[Anonymous No.18523655]

>>18523637
now for comparison a passage from mishima's sailor who fell from grace with the sea:
>His sunburned face was featureless except for the eyes that glittered in the lamplight By comparing him with the lamp, which he had often used as a yardstick, Noboru was able to estimate his height. He was certainly no more than five feet seven, probably a little less. Not such a big man. Slowly, Tsukazaki unbuttoned his shirt, then slipped easily out of his clothes. Though he must have been nearly the same age as Noboru’s mother, his body looked younger and more solid than any landsman’s: it might have been cast in the matrix of the sea. His broad shoulders were square as the beams in a temple roof, his chest strained against a thick mat of hair, knotted muscle like twists of sisal hemp bulged all over his body: his flesh looked like a suit of armor that he could cast off at will. Then Noboru gazed in wonder as, ripping up through the thick hair below the belly, the lustrous temple tower soared triumphantly erect.The hair on his rising and falling chest scattered quivering shadows in the feeble light; his dangerous, glittering gaze never left the woman as she undressed. The reflection of the moonlight in the background traced a ridge of gold across his shoulders and conjured into gold the artery bulging in his neck. It was authentic gold of flesh, gold of moonlight and glistening sweat. His mother was taking a long time to undress. Maybe she was delaying purposely.
more than a page describing the man. i reognize that the man represents mishima's image of japan's former glory but no straight man would write this. this is a sex scene and we know next to nothing about what the woman is doing. gay. 2/3

[Anonymous No.18523667]

>>18523655
here's hemmingway writing about how a woman looks in for whom the bell tolls"
>he noticed her handsome brown hands. Now she looked him full in the face and smiled. Her teeth were white in her brown face and her skin and her eyes were the same golden tawny brown. She had high cheekbones, merry eyes and a straight mouth with full lips. Her hair was the golden brown of a grain field that has been burned dark in the sun but it was cut short all over her head so that it was but little longer than the fur on a beaver pelt. She smiled in Robert Jordan’s face and put her brown hand up and ran it over her head, flattening the hair which rose again as her hand passed. She has a beautiful face, Robert Jordan thought. She’d be beautiful if they hadn’t cropped her hair.
this was only a little after we were introduced to agustin who is described as blonde and nothing more. hemmingway was always sparing with descriptions but because he was straight he pulls out all the stops for a pretty girl.

these are the best examples but in any work by any of these authors you'll find more. melville was a homo and that's that.

[Anonymous No.18523670]

>>18523059
Is the whale a boy or a girl whale?

[Anonymous No.18523671]

>>18523059
I have that version of the book in your picture, OP. I like the book very much. I would not consider it homoerotic.

[Anonymous No.18523675]

>>18523370
"I don't like rats"
>You must secretly want to have sex with rats!

[Anonymous No.18523678]

>>18523059
No but I’ve had a female Jewish leftist suggest so much to me. The comment was like “I heard Moby Dick was pretty gay”, it was meant to ruin the book for me which she knew I liked. My response was “What’s wrong with being gay and you’re Jewish aren’t you?”. She got defensive then angry and asked what her being Jewish was supposed to mean. I laughed at her and walked out of the room.

I’ve noticed this strategy by leftists. They like to passive-aggressively attack all things they image being conservative, traditional, masculine, male, white, European, Caucasian, Western, etc. One of the techniques they use is to attack sexuality or to imply homosexuality because they think the people they are attacking won’t like it. It’s incredible how disingenuine and full of shit these people are.

[Anonymous No.18523688]

>>18523678
>you’re Jewish aren’t you?
Kek

[Anonymous No.18523691]

I don’t care whether or not Melville is gay but I think it’s a very boring lens to look through Moby Dick with when there’s so much other shit to talk about in that book. So it’s kind of annoying to see it brought up a lot because you can tell that anyone who talks about it has never read the book, there are 100000 more interesting things to talk about in Moby Dick that aren’t about how gay it is

[Anonymous No.18523718]

>>18523059
I mean, its title is Big Dick.

[Anonymous No.18523720]

>>18523691
There is literally nothing gay about Moby Dick. Men can be brotherly and sentimental and even intimate with each other without secretly fucking or wanting to fuck each other in the ass.

>>18523678
This anon is right about liberals. They imply these things as a form of slander or attack. And it shows the complete lack of integrity and religiosity of their fake and gay world view

[Anonymous No.18523796]

>>18523437
>>18523637
He sounds like a 4chan twinkposter.

[Anonymous No.18523823]

maybe our culture is extremely homophobic that we cant fathom just natural talk about human/male beauty from another man. i think there is some study that found people misattributed others as gay way more than there are actual gays.
its in more works than moby dick too. in the past people were so not gay that they shared beds with other men without insecurity. plus he is a writer after all, hes supposed to describe things.

[Anonymous No.18523865]

>>18523823

[Anonymous No.18523905]

>>18523637
>>18523655
>>18523667
I actually didn't think it was at all gay when I made this thread, but I think I've been convinced otherwise

[Anonymous No.18523914]

>>18523370
>Hey guys, doesn't this normal book remind you about SUCKING COCKS and getting ASS FUCKED
>N-no YOU are the gay one!!

[Anonymous No.18523919]

Incredibly so.

[Anonymous No.18525291]

>>18523823
Your heterosexuality is holding you back. You don’t recognize the book as gay because you’re not gay. You don’t understand the subtley of operating in a heterosexual world and how to blend in. Other gays read this book and say that’s how I feel. The key example is simply comparing the writing to heterosexual authors and reading the descriptions of men vs women.

[Anonymous No.18525295]

I'm about to start this book, any tips?

[Anonymous No.18525301]

>>18523437
That is some pretty gay shit. Melville a fool for this one.

[Anonymous No.18525313]

the original manuscript was titled "The Brown Whale" after all...

[Anonymous No.18525320]

>>18523678
a dyke said this to me sbout CS Lewis once. Same strategy

[Anonymous No.18525328]

>>18523059
> this fag never got past page 12 of the novel
Go neck yourself, pleb.

[Anonymous No.18525756]

>>18523059
Ishmael and Queequeg were sleeping together in that matrimonial kind of embrace . . . Melville is not explicit of course but one can imagine they were fucking. And yes the scene is meant to be funny. Undoubtedly, there is homoeroctisim in the novel . . .

[Anonymous No.18525788]

>Toxic Masuclinity: the Thread

[Anonymous No.18525789]

Ishmael is the narrator and he often describes scenes in Ahab bedroom which imply that he's there. IMO Ishmael could be Ahab's lover.

[Anonymous No.18525794]

Ahab looks a lot like Anal

[Anonymous No.18525810]

>>18523667
Yeah, almost all faggot artists look at the male physique the way a fat kid looks at cake. (Michaelangelo is a first-rate example. Did the guy *ever* paint or sculpt a woman?)

If you think Melville is bad, try Whitman. Leaves of Grass is just hilarious:

---

The negro holds firmly the reins of his four horses, the block swags underneath on its tied-over chain,
The negro that drives the long dray of the stone-yard, steady and tall he stands pois’d on one leg on the string-piece,
His blue shirt exposes his ample neck and breast and loosens over his hip-band,
His glance is calm and commanding, he tosses the slouch of his hat away from his forehead,
The sun falls on his crispy hair and mustache, falls on the black of his polish’d and perfect limbs.

I behold the picturesque giant and love him, and I do not stop there,
I go with the team also.

---

If I worship one thing more than another it shall be the spread of my own body, or any part of it,
Translucent mould of me it shall be you!
Shaded ledges and rests it shall be you!
Firm masculine colter it shall be you!
Whatever goes to the tilth of me it shall be you!
You my rich blood! your milky stream pale strippings of my life!
Breast that presses against other breasts it shall be you!
My brain it shall be your occult convolutions!
Root of wash’d sweet-flag! timorous pond-snipe! nest of guarded duplicate eggs! it shall be you!
Mix’d tussled hay of head, beard, brawn, it shall be you!
Trickling sap of maple, fibre of manly wheat, it shall be you!
Sun so generous it shall be you!
Vapors lighting and shading my face it shall be you!
You sweaty brooks and dews it shall be you!
Winds whose soft-tickling genitals rub against me it shall be you!
Broad muscular fields, branches of live oak, loving lounger in my winding paths, it shall be you!
Hands I have taken, face I have kiss’d, mortal I have ever touch’d, it shall be you.

---

I mean, s-steady on there, dude....

[Anonymous No.18525837]

I thought the chapter where Ishmael started comparing his penis to a whale dong, and then he started inspecting the other sailor's penises so and they they compared length and girth and smell was pretty queer.

[Anonymous No.18525866]

>>18525788
Nugget

[Anonymous No.18525928]

>>18525810
Countless books have been written about being gay but this is the definitely the physical essence…eyeing the male physique like a fat kids eyes a cake.

It’s kinda humorous how the straightest homophobic males are attracted to works by Mishima and Melville who are clearly gay/bi. All I can say as someone who likes men is that my world view is very pro-male and sympathetic to the needs of men that intersects with more traditional masculinity. I think these male values like friendship, intellect, honor, strength etc are appreciated by both sides but the straight males remember nothing about the physical descriptions just like when I read Hemingway I forget there were women characters.

[Anonymous No.18526206]

>>18523823
100% agreed brother

[Anonymous No.18526207]

this thread is gay but moby dick is not.

[Anonymous No.18526224]

>>18525928
Neck yourself, you crooked fag.

[Anonymous No.18526231]

It's about a bunch of men away from home for an extended period of time on a boat. Of course it's gay.

[Anonymous No.18526301]

>>18523437
Came here to mention this chapter

[Anonymous No.18526443]

>>18526224
I’d rather stroke while I choke on you.
If you’re triggered go back to your safe space…gays and lit/arts is like pb&j.

[Anonymous No.18526547]

>>18523355
Hmmmm, generally I would agree, but surely there have been classics which don't specifically focus on women and aren't by gay men? I mean Sophocles was supposed to be gay, yet look at his beautiful depiction of Oedipus' daughters. I am not convinced in the slightest that this makes Melville gay.

[Anonymous No.18526768]

>>18526547
his letters are pretty gay to me, you gotta wonder if hawthorne was kinda freaked out by it. apparently melville burnt all of hawthorne's letters so something must have happened between the two.

[Anonymous No.18527006]

>>18523059
The gayness is just a metaphor for the shared manliness and wildness of humanity as a whole, which the protag sees as a great virtue.

[Anonymous No.18527390]

>>18526206
Not sure he really liked women that much.

[Anonymous No.18527521]

>>18525320
lewis was gay?