Medieval lit chart

[Anonymous No.18506780]

That's it /lit/, I'm doing a medieval chart, I'm tired of waiting for any of you lazy pieces of shit to do it.
I will spend the whole summer doing extensive reading on medieval literature so it will be ready at the end of august at most.
This is the way I plan on dividing it, I will put at least one book example for each category, which will have from 3 to 8 picks (maybe more), the rest I will either choose myself or get it from your recs:

Introduction and general reading:
The Autum of the Middle Ages by Huizinga
The Oxford Handbook of Medieval Literature
The History of the Medieval World: From the Conversion of Constantine to the First Crusade by Susan Wise Bauer

Contemporary books on medieval philosophy:
The King's Two Bodies by Kantorowicz
The Spirit of Medieval Philosophy by Gilson
Copleston's History of Philosophy Volumes 2 and 3
The Cambridge Companion to Medieval Philosphy

Medieval philosophy (I would prefer it to be more entry level stuff, so no obscure scholastic theology):
The Consolation of Philosophy by Boethius
The Guide for the Perplexed by Maimonides
Summa Theologica and Summa contra Gentiles by Aquinas
Ars Magna Generalis by Llull
The Incoherence of the Philosophers by Al Ghazal.
The Incoherence of the Incoherence by Averroes
Summa Logicae by William of Ockham

Poetry and epics:
Beowulf
Le Roman de la Rose
El Cantar del Mío Cid
Chanson de Roland
Rerum vulgarium fragmenta by Petrarch
The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri
Grains of Gold: An Anthology of Occitan Literature
Masnavi/The Essential Rumi
Yvain, The Knight of the Lion and Lancelot, the Knight of the Cart by Chretien de Troyes
Orlando Furioso by Ariosto
Orlando Innamorato by Bolardo

Chivalric romances:
Le Morte d'Arthur by Thomas Mallory
Amadis de Gaula
Tirant lo Blanch
Parzival by von Eschenbach

Great travels:
The Travels of Marco Polo
The Travels of Ibn Battuta
The Travels of Sir John Mandeville
The Voyage of Saint Brendan: Journey to the Promised Land
The Itinerary of Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela

The one topic I would like to discuss is if I should add Islamic philosophy and literature like Maimonides, Averroes and Rumi or just do a Chrisitan/European list. Medieval Islamic poetry and philosophy could be their own category too.
Give me your best picks and a brief explanation on why they should be on the chart so we can discuss them.

[Anonymous No.18506849]

>>18506780
>Poetry and epics:
>Orlando Furioso by Ariosto
>Orlando Innamorato by Bolardo
>Rerum vulgarium fragmenta by Petrarch
These are not medieval but renaissance works.
Instead add Carmina Burana, troubadour poetry, and Tale of Igor's Campaign.

[Anonymous No.18506917]

Reynard the Fox? How about history like Venerable Bede or Geoffrey of Monmouth, Jordanes? Procopius wrote about Byzantium trying to pick up some of the pieces. History of the Wars made me appreciate how geopolitically fucked Armenia was. Dream of the Rood?

[Anonymous No.18506948]

Castle and Cathedral by David Macaulay if you have kids. Not from that time but great books.

[Anonymous No.18506991]

And if you are doing Crusades, Geoffrey de Villehardouin wrote his memoirs on the fourth crusade.

[Anonymous No.18506999]

Chaucer?

[Anonymous No.18507012]

Is Bonaventure “too obscure?” Mind’s Road to God?

[Anonymous No.18507105]

For contemporary book additions:

Pic related is a decent overview of the history of the early middle ages.

I would also recommend Belloc's Europe and the Faith for an insight into how religion was intertwined with life and the very political structure during this time.

Other potential history books:
>The Byzantine Empire and the Plague: The History and Legacy of the Pandemic that Ravaged the Byzantines in the Early Middle Ages

>The Tibetan Empire in Central Asia: A History of the Struggle for Great Power Among Tibetans, Turks, Arabs, and Chinese During the Early Middle Ages

Primary source history books:
>The History of the Franks by Gregory of Tours
>The Ecclesiastical History of the English People by Bede

[Anonymous No.18507119]

[Anonymous No.18507793]

Contemporary History:
The Crusades: The Authoritative History of the War for the Holy Land

Medieval Philosophy:
Pseudo-Dionysius
Augustine's Confessions and City of God (you have Boethius on there)
Eckhart

Poetry and Epics:
Njals Saga

Primary Source History:
Two Lives of Charlemagne by Einhard, and Notker the Stammerer
History of the Lombards by Paul the Deacon

[Anonymous No.18507939]

>>18506917
>>18506948
>>18506991
>>18507105
>>18507793
Cool recs, thanks anons. I will make sure to check them out.
I'm not sure where I would put Chaucer as it's not an epic nor a romance, but he should definitely be on the list.
I would also leave aside the sagas since pretty much all of them deserve a reading and I think there is a specific chart for them.
I also thought about adding The Alexiad by Komnene since Bizantine lit needs more covering.

[Anonymous No.18507993]

>>18506780
You need a history section
>two lives of Charlemagne
>a history of the English speaking peoples -> Geoffrey of Monmouth
>Bead's ecclesiastical history
>Anglo Saxon chronicle -> Alfred the great
There's plenty of others too

For poetry and romances add the song of Roland, sir gawain and the green knight and Sir Orfeo

[Anonymous No.18508242]

>>18507793
I would call PD and Augustine late antiquity, but they definitely laid foundations for what followed. Isidore of Seville is post-476.

[Anonymous No.18508258]

>>18508242
Ah, I stand corrected! Pseudo-Dionysius may make the chronological cut.

[Anonymous No.18508325]

>>18506780
Is it ok to start with Le Morte D'Arthur before moving into the other Arthurian Romances?

[Anonymous No.18508327]

>>18506780
There's A LOT of medieval poetry in Spain alone. Manrique, Berceo, Don Juan Manuel, Marqués de Santillana, el Romancero Viejo, Arcipreste de Hita,...

[Anonymous No.18508369]

Also François Villon.

[Anonymous No.18508403]

Has anyone got a commentary for The Divine Comedy they can recommend?

[Anonymous No.18508638]

>>18507939
Thanks op. Glad someone is finally doing this. Everyone skips or ignores the middle ages and goes straight to the enlightenment not knowing what built it. 1000 years is a long time.

[Anonymous No.18509139]

>>18506780
Excellent work OP. As for your suggestion, I would definatley include them, but as their own section

[Anonymous No.18509667]

Bumping, someone's gotta make an actual chart. Is this what comes after resume with the Roman's? Meander through the Medievals?

[Anonymous No.18509773]

>>18509667
March/migrate/mingle through/with the medievals

[Anonymous No.18509775]

>>18506780

[Anonymous No.18509787]

>>18508403
Boccaccio wrote one.

[Anonymous No.18509793]

[Anonymous No.18509804]

Is Boethius necessary?

[Anonymous No.18509825]

>>18509804
Yes

[Anonymous No.18509964]

>>18506849
>Petrarch
>These are not medieval but renaissance works.
Not sure I would call Petrarca a full blown renaissance dude. He had proto-renaissance themes, but he was a contemporary of Dante, after all

[Medieval OP No.18511133]

Nice, I will start to read some of the works suggested here, mainly the primary works.
I forgot to mention that ideally it would be representative of all of the medieval period, with dates from around 500 (I would call P-D and Augustine late Antiquity, though that's debatable) up to late 1400s early 1500s.

The main geographical locations I would want to cover would be three, so I would like to have representation of at least one book per category for each of them. Those would be Christian/Western Europe, Islamic Golden Age and Bizantine Empire.
I believe in order to truly understand the Middle Aes one has to read at least some seminal works of Islamic lit, so I have decided to include them.

Also, it's true that I'm missing a history section. I will put contemporary medieval history books on the introduction and general reading as a way to get into the context and do a complete section for primary sources.

Lastly, I won't include any sagas, since there is not a single one that would be clearly above the others, and putting too many of them would divert the chart's purpose. I will mention them in a final note at the bottom.

By the way, Chaucer and Boccaccio will be in there too. A section of stories and tales could include texts like the Kalevala and the Mabinogion too, so tell me what you think about those.

[Anonymous No.18511157]

>>18511133
Kalevala is a modern compilation, it's not medieval

[Medieval OP No.18511194]

>>18511157
Absolutely, I meant the Lebor Gabála Érenn.

By the way, if someone here has read this book I would love to get some feedback, it looks pretty good, but shipping to my country is expensive so I might not be able to get it for review.
It's The Complete Old English Poems by Craig Williamson.
https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Craig-Williamson/dp/0812248473/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Old+English+poetry&qid=1624428211&sr=8-1

[Anonymous No.18511561]

>>18509787
yeah fucking great guy

[Anonymous No.18511889]

>>18506780
Add some chronicles there, since its about medieval literature. Like chronicle of Erik and chronicle of Livonia.

[Anonymous No.18511928]

>>18509825
Why?

[Medieval OP No.18512228]

Ok my friends, I have thought about more aditions and looked up your recs.
The selection is of around 70 books, which is probably way too much for a simple medieval chart, so I need your help with the refining process.
I want to write a brief excerpt for each book to indicate why it's important and worth reading, but it would be literally impossible because of the file size unless the number is shed significantly.
My idea would be to put the following sections, with a small colored frame on each book to indicate the main three divisions, broad European, Islamic and Bizantine.

The picks are as follows:

START HERE
The Autum of the Middle Ages, Huizinga
The most important book without question, it's the key to getting into the Middle Ages without stupid preconceptions.

GENERAL READING:
Europe:
The Oxford Handbook of Medieval Literature
The History of the Medieval World: From the Conversion of Constantine to the First Crusade by Susan Wise Bauer
Europe and the Faith by Hillary Belloc
The Crusades: The Authoritative History of the War for the Holy Land by Thomas Asbridge
The Oxford History of Medieval Europe by Georges Holmes
Islamic:
Islam in the Middle Ages: The Origins and Shaping of Classical Islamic Civilization by Jacob Lassner and Michael Bonner
Bizantine:
Streams of Gold, Rivers of Blood: The Rise and Fall of Byzantium, 955 A.D. to the First Crusade by Anthony Kaldellis
Byzantium - The Decline and Fall by John Julius Norwich

CONTEMPORARY WORKS ON MEDIEVAL PHILOSOPHY:
Europe:
The King's Two Bodies by Kantorowicz
The Spirit of Medieval Philosophy by Gilson
Copleston's History of Philosophy Volumes 2 and 3
The Cambridge Companion to Medieval Philosphy
Islamic:
An introduction to Islamic philosophy by Massimo Campanini
Bizantine:
Byzantine Philosophy: An Introductory Approach by Linos G. Benakis

MEDIEVAL PHILOSPHY:
Europe:
The Consolation of Philosophy by Boethius
Summa Theologica and Summa contra Gentiles by Aquinas
Ars Magna Generalis by Llull
Summa Logicae by William of Ockham
Liber Divinorum Operum by Hildegard von Bingen
Selected Writings by Meister Eckhart
Islamic:
The Guide for the Perplexed by Maimonides
The Incoherence of the Philosophers by Al Ghazal
The Incoherence of the Incoherence by Averroes
Meccan Revelations by Ibn Arabi

POETRY AND EPICS:
Europe:
Beowulf
Le Roman de la Rose
El Cantar del Mío Cid
Chanson de Roland
Rerum vulgarium fragmenta by Petrarch
The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri
Grains of Gold: An Anthology of Occitan Literature
Yvain, The Knight of the Lion and Lancelot, the Knight of the Cart by Chretien de Troyes
Carmina Burana
Poems of François Villon
The Tale of Igor's Campaign
Islamic:
Masnavi/The Essential Rumi
Tarjumān al-Ashwāq by Ibn Arabi
Music of a Distant Drum : Classical Arabic, Persian, Turkish, and Hebrew Poems

[Medieval OP No.18512240]

>>18512228
CHIVALRIC ROMANCES:
Le Morte d'Arthur by Thomas Mallory
Amadis de Gaula
Tirant lo Blanch
Parzival by von Eschenbach
The Book of the City of Ladies by Christine de Pizan
Tristan und Isolde by Gottfried von Strassburg

GREAT TRAVELS:
The Travels of Marco Polo
The Travels of Sir John Mandeville
The Voyage of Saint Brendan: Journey to the Promised Land
The Itinerary of Rabbi Benjamin of Tudela
Islamic:
The Travels of Ibn Battuta

PRIMARY HISTORY:
Europe:
The Ecclesiastical History of the English People by Bede
The History of the Franks by Gregory of Tours
Two Lives of Charlemagne by Einhard and Notker the Stammerer
History of the Lombards by Paul the Deacon
Memoirs of the Crusades by Geoffrey of Villehardouin
Chronicle of Erik
Chronicle of Livonia
Bizantine:
The Secret History by Procopius
History of the Wars by Procopius
The Alexiad by Anna Komnene

STORIES, TALES AND LEGENDS:
Europe:
Reynard the Fox
The Decameron by Boccaccio
The Canterbury Tales by Geoffrey Chaucer
Lebor Gabála Érenn
Islamic:
The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night
The Animals Lawsuit Against Humanity by Ijwan Al-safa


I need feedback to either remove some of the sections completely (contemporary works on medieval philosophy may be questionable, but it's my personal favorite topic and without it I don't think you can really get into primary texts), or shed the number of works to make it all fit into a regular sized chart.
That would be around 20-25 books with little descriptions as guides or up to 40-50 without the write-up.

[Anonymous No.18512252]

>>18506780
>From the Conversion of Constantine to the First Crusade by Susan Wise Bauer
That's not really "the medieval world", that is too early and finishes too early (ending at the first crusade rules out much of the medieval period). I'm afraid I can't give you much in the way of recommendations here because my learning was not done through general history books, but the earliest date you would want the time period to cover is 600AD or 700AD (which is still very early, ideally it would be 800 or a little later, but this would enable you to learn more about the origins of the Anglo-Saxons and the Franks/Holy Roman Empire) to around the mid 1400s; you have to at least have Agincourt and the end of the Hundred Years' War included.

[Anonymous No.18512300]

>>18506780
It's a niche topic but I would recommend adding Ireland Encastellated AD 950-1500 for irish medieval castles

[Anonymous No.18512593]

>Islamic
>Byzantine
Cringe

[Anonymous No.18512723]

I wonder if the Middle Ages were actually as kino as I perceive them to be in my media poisoned mind.

[Anonymous No.18512911]

>>18512593
why is it cringe exactly?

[Anonymous No.18512946]

Is a good book on the influence of Neoplatonism in Byzantine philosophy?

[Anonymous No.18513005]

Doing Byzantine history instead of Western Medieval history at Oxbridge....anons, did I fuck up?

[Anonymous No.18513014]

>>18512911
cuz you're a gay ass faggot, that's why. kys

[Anonymous No.18513015]

>>18513005
Depends, both are fascinating but which do you have more of a preference for?

[Anonymous No.18513041]

>>18513015
Big fan of the western early Middle Ages and the two-emperor problem and the relations between the Carolingians and Byzantines, also interested in trade and transportation in areas like Bruges, while also being interested in Byzantine border regions to the East, their nomad policies, their relation to the Sasanians and early Muslims and Christians deemed heretics at the multiple councils convened again and again after Chalcedon.
So I like both, it's very difficult to decide.

[Anonymous No.18513066]

>>18513041
Well My personal experience with studying history (including Medieval) at uni was that it is really hit and miss, and ultimatley I have learned far more outside of it than ever inside. My advice is look at what the two courses will actually go through (my uni let me see that at least) and make a choice based upon those details, since your preferences are quite specific.

[Anonymous No.18513099]

>>18513066
Good point really, not that I'm specifically locked to a topic or geographic region either as I've had multiple professors who've written on both Byzantine topics and Western Medieval topics and teach both.

[Anonymous No.18513198]

>>18512946
Psheek hands drew that pic.

[Anonymous No.18513207]

Make different charts for Western Europe, the Byzantine and the Muslims, otherwise there's too much and it's too heterogenous.

[Anonymous No.18513216]

>>18512593
Kys

[Anonymous No.18513240]

>>18513041
Chris Wickham's book Inheritance of Rome covers all of these things and it's a fairly recent book as it covers new findings in archaeology. Don't think there is a better history book for the early middle ages considering many colleges now use him. (he is a Marxist historian so take that for what you will)

[Anonymous No.18513270]

>>18513240
Nice, thanks for the rec anon! I'll check him out. Regardless of his Marxist historiography, which I think simplifies complex and nuanced events too much.

[Anonymous No.18513299]

>>18513207
kys /pol/ shitter bot

[Anonymous No.18513325]

>>18512228
Hey OP, I was the one who suggested Europe and the Faith. Although it does talk about the middle ages, the fall of Rome, and some medieval misconceptions, it is extremely focused on Catholicism and it's place in history so I don't know if it would be suitable for this chart.


>The Autum of the Middle Ages, Huizinga
Is this really a good intro though? I looked at the synopsis and it looks like it only talks about the high middle ages, that is, the end of the middle ages itself.

[Anonymous No.18513338]

>>18513270
>which I think simplifies complex and nuanced events too much.
It's actually the complete opposite in this book for some reason. I took away from the book how incredibly complex the early middle ages was as Chris makes a big deal about rejecting a teleological framework of history by avoiding broad strokes and focusing on specific areas and time periods.

[Medieval OP No.18513400]

>>18513325
It's not good in the same sense that an academic history book would be good, but I think it's perfect to set the tone of the subsequent readings, it will clear misconceptions that have been widespread by literally hundreds of years and can serve as a great way to actually engage the reader and make him want to know more about the Middle Ages.
I've not read Europe and the Faith but the premise looked very interesting, I think I will read it anyway and see if it can fit the general idea of the chart.

Maybe I will reduce the number of books to two per set (with the Europe/Islamic/Byzantine distinction), but there are some categories missing books, I don't know of any good primary sources on Islamic history or of any good reads of Bizantine philosophy (that are actually approachable and enjoyable as a general reader).
The only category which I would not reduce to six books would be the epics and poetry and the chivalric romances, since those should be the heart of the chart.

[Anonymous No.18513419]

>>18506999
Trips of Truth, can't believe he missed it.

[Anonymous No.18513549]

>>18512723
Battle of Tours is kino

[Anonymous No.18513592]

>>18513338
sounds extremely nice then

[Anonymous No.18513706]

>>18513400
no no, the bigger the chart the better, go for quantity, not nice design and legibility!

[Anonymous No.18513820]

>>18513706
It's actually sort of ironic that we have so many books to choose from considering that a lot of people think this was a "dark age"

[Anonymous No.18513825]

>>18513820
true

[Anonymous No.18513878]

>>18512946
Georgi Kapriev - Philosophie in Byzanz

[Anonymous No.18513883]

>>18512228
Replace the Byzantine philosophy book with Georgi Kapriev's "Philosophie in Byzanz"

[Anonymous No.18513893]

>>18513878
Is there an english version? (not searched yet, only judging based off the title and author)

[Anonymous No.18513899]

>>18513883
why that one with the other?

[Anonymous No.18513946]

>>18513820
Stop being disingenuous. Dark Ages refers to the first few hundred years of the middle ages.

[Anonymous No.18513956]

>>18513946
note that he says "a lot of people" not implicating himself, as the general consesus of the "dark ages" is awful.

[Anonymous No.18513987]

>>18513956
I'm saying the dark ages were real. They just didn't encompass the entire medieval period. The Disingenuous love.to post late medieval stuff and see look there were no dark ages

[Anonymous No.18514031]

>>18513240
>Don't think there is a better history book for the early middle ages

It depends on your tastes but Roger Collins has a book called Early Medieval Europe 300–1000. It pairs well with Wickham because while Wickham is a lot more "contemporary" Collins gives you a pretty straight narrative of Europe between 300-1000.

Peter Heather's "Empires and Barbarians - The Fall of Rome and the Birth of Europe" is also pretty good, also in the moderate opposition camp to Wickham's more contemporary, "en vogue" views.

[Anonymous No.18514088]

>>18513946
>Dark Ages refers to the first few hundred years of the middle ages.

Even that is a bit of a stretch, to demean it by calling it a "Dark Age". You have the Carolingian and the Ottonian renaissances, the entire output of Anglo-Saxon England (not an anglo myself, for the record), Saint Augustine, Funky art made in a pagan style (pic related), the Byzantine contribution, etc.

[Anonymous No.18514218]

>>18514088
>renaissances
Meme word

[Anonymous No.18514303]

>>18513946
>>18513987
Actually I gave a lot of writings that were written in the 5th through 10th centuries.

Bede
Paul the Deacon
Pseudo-Dionysius
Boethius
Augustine
Jordanes
Gregory the Great/Tours
multiple ecumenical councils (3rd council of Constantinople, councils of Nicaea)
SEVERAL capitularies
Procopius
Einhard (and that other dude)

are all writings which are considered to be during the dark ages. By dark ages people frequently refer to the early middle ages (~500-1000) and I am arguing that we have much more information and writings than most people let on. Most people will argue, "well actually that was written in the late 5th century near the roman empire"

Okay? Do you want to give exact dates for the dark ages then? It doesn't really make sense to cherry pick this stuff and claim that no one was writing during the actual dark ages, considering we do have information and writings during those times from people like Bede which lived arguably during the absolute heart of the dark ages (8th century just before the Carolingian Renaissance).

>>18514031
Oh damn that actually looks interesting because Wickham is indeed lacking on the narrative side. Will check it out anon, ty.

[Anonymous No.18514305]

>>18514218
is that your only nitpick

[Anonymous No.18514344]

>>18514303
I'd like to recommend Walahfrid Strabo, Waltharius by Ekkehard, and my personal favourite, the Heliand epic which is the ultimate crossover between germanic mythology and christianity.

Might be a bit hard to get your hands on if you don't know either German or Latin, though.

[Anonymous No.18514377]

>>18514088
St Augustine (354-430 AD) isn't exactly medieval, he's best placed in late antiquity (roughly the period between the death of Commodus and depending on who you ask, 476 or 622). The Dark Ages refer not only to the quantity of the material, but also to its quality. Just a century before you had cool ass historians and philosophers writing in impeccable Greek, but then in the 7th and 8th centuries you have people writing so-called dog Latin. The people who try to argue that any place other than non-Byzantine Europe was also sent into a Dark Age is being silly. The picture of Dark Ages becomes really stark in the field philosophy after guys like St. Isidore of Seville and Stephanus of Alexandria. We have basically nothing (again, ignoring the Byzantines for this) until Eriugena. There weren't many significant philosophers in this period besides Arabs, Byzantines, and guys like Fredegisus. Eventually we get to Anselm and things start to look better.

[Anonymous No.18514381]

>>18514344
Sounds interesting, especially that Strabo guy with the garden book.

Are you a historian by chance anon? Over the past year I've been really interested in learning more about the middle ages.

[Anonymous No.18514385]

>>18514303
that's nothing compared to other time periods

[Anonymous No.18514398]

>>18513893
No, I don't think so, but Kapriev is the leading scholar of Byzantine philosophy.
>>18513899
See above

[Anonymous No.18514412]

>>18513299
why are you so obsessed, my post has nothing to do with /pol/ it is just common sense

[Anonymous No.18514429]

>>18514303
>Gregory the Great/Tours
?

[Anonymous No.18514444]

>>18514381
>Are you a historian by chance anon?
If only! lol

I'm just a middle ages "enthusiast", I guess. I did major in classical philology before I did my masters in translation, though, so I suppose I'm somewhat adjacent to what historians do. Here in Germany we are fortunate in that Reclam keeps almost everything ever written in medieval Germany in print, and mostly in bilingual editions, too, for practically peanuts. France has something like that too in Le Livre de Poche's Lettres Gothiques collection.

The anglosphere unfortunately doesn't have anything like them from what I gathered.

[Anonymous No.18514457]

>>18514385
It's certainly not as much as other time periods due to a lack of connection and and less economic growth not as a result of forgotten knowledge but because of a lack of need due to the downsizing of the imperial structure. Basically, to name it the dark ages and act like we don't know anything about the period like the Greek Dark Ages for example is just silly considering that it was a term invented by Renaissance people like Petrarch who lacked information at that time.

>>18514429
Gregory the Great (Pope) and then Gregory of Tours (bishop and Historian)

[Anonymous No.18514463]

>>18514457
>excuses excuses excuses

[Anonymous No.18514473]

>>18514463
stay in the dark then

[Anonymous No.18514554]

>>18514444
Checked

[Anonymous No.18514572]

>>18514444
>I did major in classical philology before I did my masters in translation
Are you financially okay or how is that going for you? I really want to do something like that here in America but scared it won't turn out well for me.

[Anonymous No.18514596]

>>18514572
I'm doing okay. Obviously I'm not making as much as I would had I went into CS or law, but I'm doing what I love and what I'm good at, so I don't have a whole lot to complain about.

How are things different in the US? University education is a lot cheaper here, in continental Europe than it is in the anglosphere, and especially the united states, from what I've gathered.

[Anonymous No.18514674]

>>18514444
Do you translate primary texts or is that outside your field?

[Anonymous No.18515764]

>>18513549
The last stand of the christian Europe. Charles Martell is a complete hero and a champion.
>>18512723
Anything with Charlemagne was kino

[Anonymous No.18515793]

>>18513549
Nothing is more boring than Romanticist medieval paintings. Post actual Medieval art.

[Anonymous No.18516477]

>>18515793
>Charles Martel at the Battle of Tours, depicted in the Grandes Chroniques de France

[Anonymous No.18516610]

>>18516477
Now we're talking

[Anonymous No.18518629]

>>18515793
>Romanticism BAD
>Why..?
>uh just because

[Anonymous No.18518980]

Do you guys want my list of Byzantine primary sources that I really like (and you probably won't cause I don't give a shit about philosophy)

[Anonymous No.18518992]

>>18506849
Carmina Burana
You can't discuss that here.

[Anonymous No.18519023]

>>18518629
I like nature paintings and the like but not exaggerated historical paintings.

[Anonymous No.18519042]

>>18518992
actually hilarious

[Anonymous No.18519211]

IMO you are mission four important texts:
>Lais of Marie de France
This is the best text of fin'amor.
>Poems of Rutebeuf
Essential to understand how the figure of the poet as we know it today became such as it is. Also a good testimony of what popular life might have been like.
>Roman de Fauvel
Satyrical romance poem about a donkey becoming king of the realm and who decides to marry Fortuna. Really interesting for its use of the various media of the time (music, poetry both in Latin and Old French, and illustrations). No one quite knows how it was supposed to be played/read or to whom. Also a very interesting testimony of what a charivari was like, essential to understand the psyche of the Middle-Ages, or what inspired Rabelais and others (see: Bakhtine).
>Aucassin and Nicolette
Another parodic work, more of a literary parody than a political parody as Fauvel was. It is the only surviving exemple of a chantefable (a "sung-tale") which is literary genre that mixes verse and prose.

Also very interesting, but probably not worth putting on a chart, are the erotic fabliaux and the fatras. You should also include some contemporary historians.

[Anonymous No.18519376]

>>18518980
Please do post it. Would be interesting regardless of your disinterest in philosophy.

[Anonymous No.18520068]

>>18518629
Romantic depiction of the Middle Ages are generic and without any originality.

[Anonymous No.18520320]

>>18520068
Yeah some of them are pretty lackluster

[Anonymous No.18520334]

>>18520320
others are better

[Anonymous No.18520743]

>>18518980
Jus post it already lol

[Anonymous No.18520767]

>>18520068
Nah, you just have no taste

[Anonymous No.18520785]

>>18520068
Cringe and cope

[Anonymous No.18520809]

>>18509139
>definatley
How do you post here and do this?

[Anonymous No.18520820]

>>18520809
Dyslexia

[Anonymous No.18520873]

>>18520820
Just break down words from their prefixes and suffixes into their roots and you will solve 95% of your spelling troubles.

[Anonymous No.18520885]

>>18520873
Thanks anon, appreciate the advice

[Anonymous No.18520926]

>>18520320
>>18520334
fair enough, second one is pretty good

[Anonymous No.18521118]

The World of Late Antiquity by Peter Brown

abit earlier than "medieval" but its an outstanding book. certain passages have a poetic quality

[Anonymous No.18522277]

bump

[Anonymous No.18522703]

Is there an Arthurian lit chart anywhere?

[Anonymous No.18522760]

>>18518980
Yes.

[Anonymous No.18522931]

>>18519376
>>18520743
>>18522760
I was in bed ok.
>Military manuals
Maurice's Strategikon
Tactica of Leo VI
Three Byzantine Military treatises
Sowing the Dragons Teeth by Eric Mcgeer (it contains a translation of Praecepta Militaria)
The military institutions of the Romans by Flavius Vegetius
>Other manuals
De Adminstrando Imperio by Constantine Porphyrogenitus
De Ceremoniis by Constantine Porphyrogenitus
>Histories
John Skylitzes: A Synopsis of Byzantine History, 811-1057. By John Skylizes
The History by Michael Attaleiates
The Chronicle of Theophanes
The Alexiad by Anna Komnene
Fourteen Byzantine Rulers by Michael Psellus
The wars of Justinian by Procopius
The Secret history by Procopius
Zosimus: New History

Some of these sources a really expensive, so just get them on libgen. If you want more check out the Australian Association for Byzantine Studies and Dumbarton Oaks for their Byzantine studies. They are both translating heaps of stuff.

[Anonymous No.18522975]

>>18522703

[Anonymous No.18523017]

>>18522975
Cheers

[Anonymous No.18523064]

>>18521118
very based book rec

[Anonymous No.18523962]

>>18522975
interesting

[Anonymous No.18524863]

OK, I'm starting with the formatting. I have divided into 9 sections, one for the Start here with a brief explanation and 8 for the other ones.
I'm posting it here to see how big the letters apear.
I have picked the title from some anon on this thread, it could be changed to the generic Medieval /lit/ Chart in the future.

[Anonymous No.18524928]

>>18524863
see>>18522931 and >>18519211 buddy

[Anonymous No.18524999]

>>18524928
Yeah, I have written down every book rec on here, but there are simply too many, I will start to read some of the books to try and make the best possible picks.
Also, every anon will have a lot of good medieval books from their country (especially France, Britain and maybe Spain) and I would like the chart to be a bit representative of different locations and languages, so many of those will inevitably be left out.

[Anonymous No.18525666]

>>18524863
Excellent

[Anonymous No.18525852]

>>18524863
you should give it a cool background like >>18522975 pic related if you can.

[Anonymous No.18525915]

>>18525852
That would be awesome. I did that in paint in a few minutes since I have not ever done something like that. I could dowbload photoshop or something like that to try and make it as nice as possible, but it would take longer to come out.

[Anonymous No.18525932]

>>18525915
You could use GIMP

[Anonymous No.18526113]

>>18525932
Cool, I will get to it.
I will also post the chart after every section is done in order to get some feedback on the possible changes.

[Anonymous No.18526273]

>>1850678 cba to read this whole thread if someone's already mentioned this stuff but you might want to think about what lines you're drawing to constitute medieval. bede isn't writing at the same time as chaucer - there's heaps of cultural and political changes that happen that put writers like bede, the beowulf poet, etc, in the 'old english' category and thomas mallory and chaucer in the 'medieval' category, turning them into entirely different subcultures of writing with almost 1000 years standing between them. approaching all this in one chart seems like it'll be a massive chart, an oversimplified chart, or you might need to break it down into subsections

[Anonymous No.18526704]

>>18526273
True, it's impossible for a single chart to cover every important piece produced in the Middle Ages.
It will indeed be oversimplified, at the end of the day I want people to start getting into Medieval Lit, to start appreciating it.
That's why I want the chart to be representative of different time periods, locations and traditions. I will introduce works from around 500 to 1500.
This will serve as an introduction for the general reader, I have in mind someone whose only contact with the Middle Ages is through LOTR, Crusader Kings and some wacjy documentary of the Templars from History Channel (so a good chunk of this borad presumably).
Maybe once this is done someone else (or maybe even me) can start doing actual in-depth charts focused on a single country or topic.

[Anonymous No.18527150]

>>18526704
seems nice so far

[Anonymous No.18528114]

let me know if you guys want me to make a chart of miscellaneous stuff that isn't a straight narrative history. i collect old and cheap medieval books so this is like my dream thread. don't know why i didn't make it before.

[Anonymous No.18528589]

>>18528114
yes please do!
Personally I've mostly read Liverpool press' TTH which is excellent. What sort of stuff do you have?

[Anonymous No.18529387]

>>18528114
>that isn't a straight narrative history.
what medieval books are narrative history?

[Anonymous No.18530032]

Does anyone here know any books/articles on Byzantine and Frankish contact? Particularly in the early Middle Ages? Not war btw but either trade, religion, etc

[Anonymous No.18530119]

>>18506780
Oh boy another useless chart of esoteric philosophy books that neither the chart's creator or the lurker will actually read. Just make a chronological list of the best source texts like Gregory de Tours and Einhard, added to that one broad survey history to guide the reader and Huizinga of course.

[Anonymous No.18530131]

>>18507105
>i
I read this too, or at least approximately half (skipping parts I found uninteresting). Wickham's style is incredibly boring even for history.

[Anonymous No.18530216]

>>18513338
Marxism is not teleological, where did you get that idea (no, I get it, many people have this conception, and it's sometimes right depending on the Marxist)? It gains it's ideological strength from, unlike Hegel, suggesting that history is too complicated to be reduced to any obvious, linear or singular factors. Material dialectics are a probable process, not teleological, based on discovery of supposed "scientific facts" about historical economies. Ie, doing exactly what Chris Wickham did and making a huge deal of archaeology and general materials-economic analysis. This is also what I found most supremely boring about his book. I would be content if he simply stated which areas declined or increased economically and when, but instead he has to meander on about the declining of certain types of urns and pottery in certain areas at certain times.

[Anonymous No.18530221]

>>18530131
It is pretty boring at some parts, I especially didn't like how at the end how he gave his personal opinion about how he wouldn't have a beer with Augustine. But in terms of history, I think he did a good job trying to give a proper record of what was happening considering it dealt with so many locations and time periods. It's also worth mentioning that this is a fairly recent work which has some new insights provided by recent archaeological findings. Any other early middle ages history books you recc?

[Anonymous No.18530228]

>>18530216
>Marxism is not teleological,
I never said this

[Anonymous No.18530284]

>>18530216
>Chris Wickham did and making a huge deal of archaeology and general materials-economic analysis.
There are a lot of chapters where he goes into details about other things. For example, there is one chapter where he talks about the power of image, other chapters focus on culture, and some are just simply more narrative in style. However, I will admit his narrative telling of the early middle ages is extremely lacking. Maybe that is a result of his belief that the early middle ages and history in general isn't one big story, but a mixed bag of different peoples, events, and places, not exactly meshing together perfectly like we want it to.

[Anonymous No.18530356]

>>18530221
The only book I haven't seen recommended here which I think is interesting is Gervase Rosser's Art of Solidarity in the Middle Ages. It focuses on how the guild and corporate system worked, which is usually one of the most misunderstood aspects of medieval times by people who take cursory glances at medieval economies. The main problem is it focuses on England and doesn't really bother with Germany (which is probably more interesting overall, at least to me, given how the Empire worked). And of course most of the other European countries are largely left out.
>>18530228
It seemed implied. Maybe I should have replied to the person before you.
>>18530284
I know, I didn't hate the whole book. It's still probably worth reading if you're interested in the subject.

[Anonymous No.18531453]

>>18530216
Nice post anon

[Anonymous No.18531649]

>>18530032
Check Oxford Bibliographies

[Anonymous No.18531655]

Who wrote the best Annals of the medieval era?

[Anonymous No.18532750]

bump

[Anonymous No.18532774]

>>18506780
Gregory of Monmouth's History of the kings of england

[Anonymous No.18534084]

>>18532774
as long as it's read with supplement.

[Anonymous No.18534683]

>>18512240
Good thread. this is in part because I'm an anglo and Cambridge -English fag but I would throw in two things that haven't been mentioned so far, both late Medieval. First, the Corpus Christi Cycles, all are pretty fascinating but for kino look to the York Plays (esp Crucifixion) and the Wakefield Plays (anything by the Wakefield Master, but the second shepherds play is probably the best). Beyond that works on Affective Piety. I know someone is going to say 'lol woman' but The Book of Margery Kempe and The Shewings of Julian of Norwich are both excellent - the first more for getting a picture of Medieval English life and pilgrimage, the second for some beautiful prose and philosophy

[Anonymous No.18534689]

>>18506780
Any Albertus Magnus?

[Anonymous No.18534697]

>>18506780
St. Isidore of Seville's Etymologies. Not complete without it.
>>18511928
Arguably the only one that is necessary.

[Anonymous No.18534706]

>>18530221
>wouldn't have a beer with Augustine
why would he not?

[Anonymous No.18535209]

>>18534706
Sorry that's what I remembered but here's what he actually says:

>if any, late antique or early medieval writers (that is, those whose personality we can recapture, at any rate in part, with least mediation) I could imagine meeting with any real pleasure. It comes down to remarkably few: Theodoret of Cyrrhus, Gregory the Great, Einhard, maybe Braulio of Zaragoza - and, with less enthusiasm, Augustine, for his remarkable intelligence and self-awareness however, not for his tolerance

Pretty clear that he doesn't respect the religiosity of the people during this time

[Anonymous No.18535223]

>>18530356
>Rosser's Art of Solidarity in the Middle Ages.
>....Guilds in England 1250-1550
not early middle ages m8

[Anonymous No.18535256]

niggas really be including Boethius but not Pseudo-Dionysius, one of Aquinas' biggest influences

[Anonymous No.18536210]

>>18506780
>Doesn't include Digenes Akritas in Epics
Sad!

[Anonymous No.18536242]

>>18535223
This thread is Medieval /lit/, not early Middle Ages. The only problem with that is the fact that it spans to 1550, although with respect to guild associations, that is not really a problem because they fairly similar the same until around that point, and you at least get a sense of how they declined.

[Anonymous No.18536351]

I've read the Tain and Mabinogion. Those were interesting books with some significance.

[Anonymous No.18536461]

>>18535256
Wrong, Aquinas cites Dionysius a lot, not pseudo-Dionysius.

[Anonymous No.18537918]

Bump

[Anonymous No.18537952]

>>18536461
I thought Pseudo-Dionysius was mistaken as the real dionysius in the 1st century

[Anonymous No.18537964]

>>18536242
I asked for a better history book on the early middle ages though. It's impossible to understand the high middle ages without knowing the early middle ages, just as it is impossible to understand the Roman empire without studying the republic.

[Anonymous No.18539148]

>>18537952
Not mistaken, he took his identity because the real Dionysius has a lot of creds since he is in the Bible, plus he has the swag name of Areopagite.

[Anonymous No.18539203]

>>18539148
But isn't Aquinas ultimately citing Pseudo D then? Not the actual Dionysius?

[Anonymous No.18539321]

>>18507012
This, Bonaventure is huge. Also, is scotus too obscure? if you're including ockham, at least give the good Franciscan a voice. Probably his sentences commentary.

[Anonymous No.18539331]

>>18539321
(I meant the ordinatio)

[Anonymous No.18539420]

this is from my vaults, i don´t know if OP will think it´s useful for his charts, here it is:

Medieval Philosophy


-Medieval Essays by Étienne Gilson
-Basic Issues in Medieval Philosophy: Selected Readings Presenting Interactive Discourse Among the Major Figures
by Richard N. Bosley
-Medieval Philosophy by Peter S. Adamson
-The Spirit of Medieval Philosophy by Étienne Gilson
-The Consolation of Philosophy by Boethius
-Aquinas by Anthony Kenny
-Meister Eckhart works
-Francisco Suárez works
-School of Salamanca works
-John Scotus Eriugena works
-Corpus Areopagiticum/Dionysiacum by Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite
-Pietro Pomponazzi (Petrus Pomponatius) works
-Michael of Ephesus works
-Secretum (De secreto conflictu curarum mearum) by Petrarch
-Proclus works
-Platonic Theology by Marsilio Ficino


links

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholasticism

[Anonymous No.18539428]

>>18539420
Medieval/Renaissance Poetry

-Charles, Duke of Orléans works
-Thomas III of Saluzzo works
-Matteo Maria Boiardo works
-The Knight in the Panther's Skin by Shota Rustaveli
-Juan Boscán Almogáver works

[Anonymous No.18539434]

>>18539428
Medieval Literature

Between Virgil..........and Dante (aside from Boethius)

In reverse chronological order:

Cavalcanti
Guinizzelli
Brunetto Latini
Bonaventure
Roger Bacon
Vincent of Beauvais
Bonvesin de la Riva
Giacomo da Lentini
Jacobus de Varagine
Hugh of Saint-Cher
St Francis of Assisi
Clare of Assisi
Nibelungenlied
Roman de la Rose
Chanson de Roland
Hildegard of Bingen
Abelard & Héloïse
Alain de Lille
Walafrid Strabo
Remigius of Auxerre
Venerable Bede
Scotus Eriugena
Isidore of Seville
Gregory the Great
Namatianus
Augustine

Larger Reading List

Catherine of Siena
Henry of Langenstein
Giovanni Boccaccio
Francesco Petrarca
Jacopone da Todi
Joachim of Fiore
Elisabeth of Schönau
William the Breton
Daniel of Morley
Stephen Langton
William of Tyre
Otto of Freising
Petrus Comestor
Hugh of Saint Victor
Bernard of Clairvaux
Honorius of Autun
Chronicles of Saint Gall
Chronicle of Novalesa
Guibert of Nogent
Adam of Bremen
William of Poitiers
Navigatio Sancti Brendani
Einhard (Vita Karoli Magni)
Rabanus Maurus
Theodulf of Orléans
Alcuin of York
Paul the Deacon
Gregory of Tours
Columbanus
Benedict of Norcia
Hisperica Famina
Carmina Burana
Physiologus
Rutebeuf
Aucassin and Nicolette
Saint Anselm of Canterbury
William Langland

Add an anthology of trobadours, an anthology of stilnovisti, some bestiaries, some lapidariums, some herbariums and something about alchemy.

historians and chroniclers too

[Anonymous No.18539444]

>>18539434
Medieval Ages (476-1492)

Europe

-The World of Late Antiquity 150-750 by Peter R.L. Brown
-The Inheritance of Rome: Illuminating the Dark Ages, 400-1000 by Chris Wickham
-The Idea of Sovereignty At the Turn of the 14th Century by Andrew Latham
-Theorizing Medieval Geopolitics: War and World Order in the Age of the Crusades by Andrew Latham
-Medieval Machine: The Industrial Revolution of the Middle Ages by Jean Gimpel
-The Renaissance in Italy: A Social and Cultural History of the Rinascimento by Guido Ruggiero
-Italy in the Early Middle Ages: 476-1000 by Cristina La Rocca
-The Artist, the Philosopher, and the Warrior: The Intersecting Lives of Da Vinci, Machiavelli, and Borgia and the World They
Shaped by Paul Strathern
-The Alexiad by Anna Komnene
-Before Church and State: A Study of Social Order in the Sacramental Kingdom of St. Louis IX by Andrew Willard Jones
-Britons and Saxons: The Chiltern Region by K. Rutherford Davis
-The Medici: Godfathers of the Renaissance by Paul Strathern
-The Borgias: The Hidden History by G.J. Meyer
-The House of Medici: Its Rise and Fall by Christopher Hibbert
-La verdad de los Borgia by Gemma Nieto
-A World Lit Only by Fire (subtitled The Medieval Mind and the Renaissance: Portrait of an Age) by William Manchester
-The Inheritance of Rome: Illuminating the Dark Ages, 400-1000 by Chris Wickham
-Marc Bloch works
-God's Battalions: The Case for the Crusades by Rodney Stark
-Popular Revolutions Late Middle Ages by Mollat Michel Wolff Philippe
-A History of Venice by John Julius Norwich
-The Templars: History & Myth by Michael Haag
-The Ugly Renaissance: Sex, Greed, Violence and Depravity in an Age of Beauty by Alexander Lee
-Life in a Medieval Castle by Joseph Gies
-1066: The Hidden History in the Bayeux Tapestry by Andrew Bridgeford
-Brunelleschi's Dome: How a Renaissance Genius Reinvented Architecture by Ross King
-The Night Battles: Witchcraft and Agrarian Cults in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries by Carlo Ginzburg
-Montaillou, aldea occitana, de 1294 a 1324 by Emmanuel Le Roy-Ladurie
-City of Fortune: How Venice Won and Lost a Naval Empire by Roger Crowley
-The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise by Dario Fernández-Morera
-The Time Traveller's Guide to Medieval England: A Handbook for Visitors to the Fourteenth Century by Ian Mortimer
-The Worship of the Generative Powers: During the Middle Ages of Western Europe by Thomas Wright
-The World System in the Thirteenth Century: Dead-end of Precursor? by Janet L. Abu-Lughod

[Anonymous No.18539455]

>dumping shit tons of books without even explaining the choices.
Dude...

[Anonymous No.18539467]

>>18539455
you can pick the ones you like, medieval ages is not something you can explain in one sentence

[Anonymous No.18539481]

>>18526704
He wants to create a chart which means a few select choices
>>18539467

[Anonymous No.18539491]

>>18539481
oh, i thought he was doing one for history, one for poetry, one for philosophy and so on

[Anonymous No.18540206]

>>18539203
No Aquinas only cites the works of the original Dionysius, not of the pseudo one.

[Anonymous No.18540332]

>>18540206
Give me one example of this

[Anonymous No.18540433]

Robert Burton's anatomy of melancholy and Saxo's Gesta Danorum are two really important and need to be there somewhere

[Anonymous No.18541330]

>>18506780
The Life of Saint Louis by Jean de Joinville would be a good fit on your primary sources list. It's a history/memoir about Louis XI written by a French nobleman who personally knew the king.
Semi-related, are there any modern historical books that focus on the Duchy of Burgundy?

[Anonymous No.18541932]

So....is anyone going to make this thing?

[Anonymous No.18542324]

>>18506780
way too broad a subject for a chart. You need to narrow that quite a bit or make multiple charts.

[Anonymous No.18542398]

>>18541932
OP said he will finish around the time summer ends

[Anonymous No.18542481]

>>18542398
Dang, thanks

[Anonymous No.18542567]

>>18507119
looks quite clean. would get into it

[Anonymous No.18543611]

>>18540433
>Middle Ages chart
>Suggests work from the 1600s
Bruh

[Medieval OP No.18543633]

>>18541932
I will do it, I promise. But there are some works I've not read (mainly the secondary sources I didn't suggest) and I'm not comfortable adding them without at least making a quick review of the pdf.
I will be posting every section once it's done.