Anti-Orientalist thread

[Anonymous No.18494921]

Orientalism is cancer. It's just a scapegoat for coping with modern civilization. What book should I read to de-orientalize myself?

[Anonymous No.18494983]

>>18494921
>It's just a scapegoat for coping with modern civilization
Legitimate orientalism comes from the fact the western gave birth to modernism, and thus is still more modern.
Would I be a westernist if I developed my interest and sympathy to amerindians ?

[Anonymous No.18495164]

>>18494921
Thank you for picking the painting of Byron in one of his Albanian-Greek travels.

When it comes to Orientalism, the first peoples that need to be de-orientalized are eastern Europeans, Russians, Greeks, Slavs, Balkan people in general etc, not Chinese or Arabs or whatever.

They were the first to come in contact and then be assimilated/conquered and have their image "painted" (and re-presented to them) by the West.

The expectation vs reality of the European Philhellenes (like Byron) in the Greek revolution of 1821 is a prime example.

[Anonymous No.18495211]

>>18495164
TLDR me the last bit?
Or link me something on that topic

[Anonymous No.18495251]

>>18494921
Not very based, op.

[Anonymous No.18495284]

Hmm, I'm kind of doing that now
I'm reading only english literature classics atm, the last dozen or so books I tried reading where on things like the Quran, sufism, islamic history, chinese history, chinese religion, etc
Now I'm just back to basics reading shakespeare, emily dickinson and jane austen

[Anonymous No.18495387]

>>18494921
This is true but it’s not going to go over well on here. Orientalism is the province of the sickly romantics, which is most of /lit/.

[Anonymous No.18495388]

>>18495211
Europeans came to 19th century Greeks expecting to find people with the beauty of Alcibiades wearing togas and quoting Plato and Sappho (they found mostly hardy, illiterate and very poor farmers whose recollection of the ancient glory consisted mainly in folklore around the Alexander Romance). Greece was also governed by Bavarian and Danish kings after becoming independent.

Many philhellenes came to hate the Modern Grreks for not living up to their expectations.

Since then, modern Greeks have struggled very hard to fit in the European fantasies about them, because they desperately want to be accepted as true Europeans and not "Orientals". This heavily influenced their art, literature and even religion.

Toynbee, Woodhouse and Beaton have talked about the subject in their histories of modern Greece.

[Anonymous No.18495421]

>>18495388
That's interesting because I've always heard that after independence, modern Greeks looked back to the ancient Greeks and Byzantines as a source of identity, was this a conscious reaction to the way philhellenes saw Greece or was it also native to Greece itself?

[Anonymous No.18495444]

>>18494983
What did u even write? Please go back to school.

[Anonymous No.18495452]

>>18495388
the greeks got "turked"

[Anonymous No.18495457]

>>18495284
I would recommend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYxpSjkyAg

And of course On the Road

[Anonymous No.18495464]

>>18494921
Orientalism just means being influenced by the 1001 Nights, mate.

[Anonymous No.18495494]

>>18494921
Take the anti-guenon pill

[Anonymous No.18495546]

>>18495421
Both, but in different degrees. Native Greek classicism and indentification with the ancient ancestors started in mid-to-late Byzantium, but it was seen as a secondary part of their identity, which primarily came from Byzantium and Orthodoxy (until the early 20th century the ethnonym Romios=Roman/Byzantine was more popular than Hellene).

With the advent of the Enlightenment and its Greek admirers, and with the Bavarian rule of independent Greece, Byzantine elements were thrown to the trash. 80 Byzantine churches of Athens were demolished because they ruined the "muh Pericles" Bavarian fantasy, and the debris was used to build a literal Gothic cathedral. The Acropolis was also "cleansed" from any non classical monuments, including a marvellous medieval Crusader tower.
Greek literature was plagued, until th 1980s, by a langage dispute between the fans of a pure ancient language, and those supporting the common vernacular.

It was in the late 19th century when Greek Romanticism helped Byzantium make a comeback, but it is a taboo (un-european, asiatic-oriental) subject to this day.

[Anonymous No.18495606]

>>18495444
Legitimate orientalism comes from the fact the western world gave birth to modernism, and thus is still more modern.
Would I be called a "westernist" (I use a neologism) if I developed my interest and sympathy to amerindians ?

I'm saying the cancer of the world (modernity) comes from western elements. And orientalism too, as a natural reaction to it.

[Anonymous No.18495616]

>>18495494
cringe and ignorancepilled

[Anonymous No.18495664]

>>18495464
t. Said

[Anonymous No.18495666]

>>18494921
The problem is that "Western" anything is a shifting sand of nascent relativism. Oriental culture at least has a tradition capable of understanding and working in a relativist social and moral landscape.

Modernism on the other hand is built to work only within rigid social morals. The youth have decided that this system blows, mainly because nobody is handing them a paycheck for ideological rigidity. In the past, you could hardly get a job in America if you weren't a Calvinist or at least Lutheran. If we lived in that world, then everyone would be on the Modern liberal train with few exceptions, since we don't live in that world, nobody is on the Modernist liberal train. Even if you think you're on the train, you might as well be on the platform cause the train isn't running.

>>18495387
The people who were "Modernist" have been literally dead and in the ground for fifty years. This has nothing to do with "sickly romantics" like Geothe, Coleridge, Blake and other poets who have also been dead for even longer.

[Anonymous No.18495688]

>>18495606
You know the more I think about it, the more I have this sense that the world (human perception) has always been the same, yes it has evolved but the essence it’s still the same. Food, Procreation, and few enlightened ones- usually artists, creative people

[Anonymous No.18495690]

>>18495546
Fascinating
Thanks for the answer anon

[Anonymous No.18495702]

>>18495284
I get that, but why anglo authors though

[Anonymous No.18495717]

>>18495616
Keep seething about modernity. It's already over. At least your preferred ideologue wasn't two hundred years late like you are. (Or by his own standards, maybe two hundred thousand... just how long is a yuga anyway?)

[Anonymous No.18495724]

>>18495546
Interesting, thanks anon

[Anonymous No.18495742]

>>18495702
Well I meant literature written in english sorry

[Anonymous No.18495775]

>>18495717
>quotes an atheist to confront a metaphysician
>doesn't even know the basics of the yugas
>Probably doesn't know what is modernism according to traditions, as he doesn't know these traditions.

Modernism has ended according to post-moderns.
"Modernism" doesn't lead the elite nor the immense majority of humanity who, believers, accidentally use modern means.
>epic troll

[Anonymous No.18495789]

>>18495688
Of course it's a tendency, but with real qualitative changes. Like an acceleration.

[Anonymous No.18495791]

>>18495666
This the least self aware post i could imagine
>666

[Anonymous No.18495798]

>>18495775
>"Modernism" doesn't lead the elite nor the immense majority of humanity who, believers, accidentally use modern means.
What the fuck are you trying to say here?

[Anonymous No.18495845]

>>18495387
>>18494921
Cant one both apreciate and critisize something? I really do appreciate the "sickly sweetness" and passion within orientalism, and there are aspects that can very much be apreciated, while also understanding a level of mysticism within it that maybe should be seen as a vail. But desu, I kind of like the absurdist take of enjoying and appreciating it for what it is, but still seeing it as passing, ephemeral. Both real and not real as once. an interpretation.

[Anonymous No.18495892]

>>18495798
Modernism doesn't have any control, instead elites who exercise control as well as masses are led by religious ideologies, and not by modernism, who is in most cases just a corrupted state of religion upon which traditions still flourish and conserve themself : the modern world itself being the sacred story of the jews reclaiming their lands, of the evangelicals provoking the coming of Christ,...

[Anonymous No.18495916]

>>18495892
I'm not sure what you are getting at other than some ESL filtered /pol/ explanation of US foreign policy.

[Anonymous No.18496117]

>>18495791
I would dismiss what you've said as simply low-effort trolling, but I'm curious if you have a real argument why my post was self-unaware, even though you don't know me and can really only assume who I am and what I believe. Based on that assessment alone I am comfortable with the assertion that you are an idiot, a belief further enhanced by your unironic use of numerology in a vain attempt to dismiss what I've said.

But why is it self-unaware to note that the West is dying, as a logical extension of Western institutions being incapable of promoting or defending their own dogmas? Authority can only be defended with violence; the very ability to speak freely is only tenable if everyone is so brainwashed that freedom of thought is psychologically impossible.

Therefore the inability of the West to effectively maintain the brainwashing, or violently punish free speech when it actually happens, means that the West is moribund and headed to the grave.

[Anonymous No.18496138]

Let’s be real, orientalism is nothing but cope for retards who can’t handle the western canon

[Anonymous No.18496147]

>>18496117
>But why is it self-unaware to note that the West is dying, as a logical extension of Western institutions being incapable of promoting or defending their own dogmas?
The entire world is now the West with local flavours. There's simply no other civilization than the West anymore, save the talibans and a couple other marginal groups.

[Anonymous No.18496156]

>>18496147
I'd consider Russia and China their own civilizations, they're just kind of infected by western memes.

[Anonymous No.18496168]

>>18496156
Russia has been running after the west since Peter the Great and China is a post communist technocracy entirely modelled after western ideologies (the supposed "confucianism" of modern China is a big meme).

[Anonymous No.18496186]

>>18496117
>Oriental culture at least has a tradition capable of understanding and working in a relativist social and moral landscape.
this is one of the exact lies that said pointed out

>Authority can only be defended with violence; the very ability to speak freely is only tenable if everyone is so brainwashed that freedom of thought is psychologically impossible.
this is entirely untrue, the regimes that tried to defend authority using nothing but force fell. Authority is also maintained by imagined power structures and shared truths that create solidarity and turn power inward to the individual.

>>18496147
>The entire world is now the West with local flavours
actually pathetic opinion

[Anonymous No.18496188]

>>18496168
But neither of them are really Western, their people are simply different. Russia for example recently built massive military cathedral, can you imagine US doing this? Obviously not.

[Anonymous No.18496198]

>>18496186
>actually pathetic opinion
That's truth. Anyone who disagrees takes larping for reality.

[Anonymous No.18496208]

>>18496198
>yes china has discarded its history that extends into antiquity for just marxism and capitalism
>I am very smart

[Anonymous No.18496212]

>>18496147
>The whole world is the West
>They have flatscreen TVs in Bangladesh so they must be a flavour of West now
We're talking about ideas, and in the realm of ideas where has "the West" gone? You remember, that monolithic group of factory workers, bankers, and salesmen who went to Sunday Service and believed in nothing much other than that America is Great.

That "West" which was once productive and a bulwark against Godless Communism just doesn't exist anymore, and no amount of Bangladeshis with a TV and a smartphone is going to cover that loss or make them any more "Western." Unless you think that they are as servile, gutless and hedonistic as people in the modern USA.

The West is evaporating; or Turkey wouldn't have Erdogan, India wouldn't have Modi, and China wouldn't have Xi. These people in the East have nothing in common with you beyond having five fingers on each hand.

[Anonymous No.18496213]

>>18496188
Yeah the russian government tried to reverse the course of dechristiniaztion it took during the soviet era but how does it contradict what I say? It's quite a quitessential western debate actually. And fyi American society is still way more religious than Russia.

[Anonymous No.18496229]

>>18496208
I don't say it's smart, I say it's a fact whether you like it or not.
>>18496212
Communism is a western ideology. You have no understanding whatsoever of what you're talking about.
Those people in the East all live in western political structure. Erdogan larping as an Ottoman califate in a kemalist republic (he's about to be out btw) or Modi doesn't change anything to that fact.
Their civilizations have been folklorized and will stay so. Their future is to be a tourist trap for western tourists.

[Anonymous No.18496232]

>>18496212
Communism is also Western lel, as is modern democracy. The entire world adopted these memes

[Anonymous No.18496234]

>>18496229
ok, but just know you're wrong and retarded for thinking that

[Anonymous No.18496249]

>>18496234
Powerful arguments.

Now look what modern China actually made of its traditional culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Olds
>The Four Olds or the Four Old Things (simplified Chinese: 四旧; traditional Chinese: 四舊; pinyin: sì jiù) was a term used during the Cultural Revolution by the student-led Red Guards in the People's Republic of China in reference to the pre-communist elements of Chinese culture they attempted to destroy. The Four Olds were: Old Ideas, Old Culture, Old Habits, and Old Customs (Chinese: Jiù Sīxiǎng 旧思想, Jiù Wénhuà 旧文化, Jiù Fēngsú 旧风俗, and Jiù Xíguàn 旧习惯).[1] The campaign to destroy the Four Olds began in Beijing on August 19, 1966 (the "Red August", during which a massacre also took place in Beijing[2]), shortly after the launch of the Cultural Revolution.[3]

[Anonymous No.18496276]

>>18496249
>yea and then they erased all their history and now its gone forever and no one remembers it or lets it influence their thinking ever again
do you think "the west" when people wear suits?
what do you think "the west" is?

[Anonymous No.18496289]

>>18496276
That's what you actually believe. You believe in larping.
Modern China is a nominally communist country whose entire political and sociological premises are grounded on a couple western thinkers. It eradicated traditional culture and what's left of it is folklore or tourist traps. Those are hard facts.

[Anonymous No.18496295]

>>18496186
>It is entirely untrue that authority is defended with force and brainwashing
No, it is entirely true. The entirety of the USA, for instance is completely brainwashed into thinking that they are creating "shared truths, turning power inward to the individual" or any of the other neo-liberal bullshit you are shilling so hard that it's embarrassing.

All the real-world attempts to live by these bullshit ideals actually bring the country closer to collapse, much like how Evangelical Christianity takes their religion too seriously and alienate people as a result. A great example of this is the new ideology of "wokeness." Wokeness isn't new, it's actually just liberalism pursued with fanatical sincerity. Although they are ignorant, they intend to reignite the cultural engine (i.e. the brainwash machine) so that it can collectively cure them of doubt about their self-importance.

[Anonymous No.18496306]

>>18494921
Whenever we see guenon/islam/hinduism/ threads we should just tell them to stop their orientalism.

[Anonymous No.18496309]

>>18496295
Wokeness is really not liberalism, it's some kind of revolutionary racialist sect

[Anonymous No.18496359]

>>18496229
>>18496232
>Communism happened in the minds of Westerners
>Therefore Communism is "Western" in orientation
No, if you actually look at what Communism says and what it results in, it advocates a return to what is effectively little more than the redistrubutive economies of Bronze-Age Mesopotamia. Anti-individualism is hardly a Western idea. I mean, that's like saying that a man who converts to Islam while living in Belgium is a great example of Western ideology.

Or rather, the Islam-convert in Belgium possessing "rights" and not being relegated to the status of at least de-facto second-class citizen for his opinions, is a great example of how the West is failing. Remember that the "nice guys" don't win in history, nice guys get slaughtered.

[Anonymous No.18496375]

>>18496289
>>18496359
Ahem

[Anonymous No.18496384]

>>18496309
Wokeism is the application of planned obsolence to ideology. Ritual destruction and humiliation of previous values on the basis of their innate sinfulness for being outdated or not representative of the imagined present. Because the present is merely the immediate past wokeism cannot exhaust its find-and-replace protocol so long as there are people willing to participate. Sadly there are no books about this per se, but perhaps Bataille or Baudrillard can get you close.

[Anonymous No.18496385]

>>18496289
there are very good reasons they it "socialism with chinese characteristics"
Youre reducing a nation/region from snippets of history you've heard as an uninformed outsider and projecting your limited world experience onto those nations.
Chinese myths, wisdom, and philosophy is still alive and well, I dont know what you even mean by "eradicated traditional cutlure"
do you think cultures develop in a vacuum and not how they react to a global paradigm?

>>18496295
>the idea that power is turned inwards to create imagined communities and shared truths is neo liberal bullshit
You don't know what neoliberalism is, you might be the least informed, most arrogant retard on /lit/ and this is like the olympics for that
wokeness is an extension of liberalism and not its own ideology. Its a neoliberal attempt to patch up the failing rhetoric of an empire that claims to be emancipatory and egalitarian.
Are you one of those people that thinks liberalism is "the absence of ideology"?
I actually don't care, what you think, I want to sleep.

[Anonymous No.18496386]

>>18496359
based anon revealing the reactionary nature of communism.

[Anonymous No.18496391]

>>18496359
Marxists communism is extremely western, its relation to earlier Western ideologies of revolutionary liberation, progressive history, and materialism is obvious.

[Anonymous No.18496394]

>>18496384
You are making this up as you along and it shows
>>18496309
wokeness is liberal cope and cointelpro shit to break up any meaningful social action by getting them into petty pedantic nonsense

[Anonymous No.18496399]

>>18496359
>No, if you actually look at what Communism says and what it results in, it advocates a return to what is effectively little more than the redistrubutive economies of Bronze-Age Mesopotamia.
Genuine, pure, unalduterated bullshit bordering to schizo babbling. What the hell has Mesopotamia anything to do here. Communism is so embedded in western culture you can trace it to John Ball.
As to the Belgian convert he's likely an asocial prole with no relevance, no power whatsoever. Meanwhile Saudia Arabia is catching up on westernization as MBS deislamize it every day that passes. That's what actually matters.

[Anonymous No.18496405]

>>18496394
>You are making this up as you along and it shows
And you're not? Holy based! Please reveal more eternal truths to us

[Anonymous No.18496408]

>>18496385
You're a hair-splitting buffoon anyway, none of your distinctions about wokeness, liberalism or neo-liberalism actually mean anything. They are all the same masochistic cult with various meaningless flavours.

[Anonymous No.18496415]

>>18496399
>If I mention mesopatamia, I will surely sound smart, worldly, and well read
this is the extent of his analysis

[Anonymous No.18496420]

>>18496405
I am not, no
but thanks for admitting that you pull shit out of your ass and smear it on your keyboard

[Anonymous No.18496424]

>>18496385
You're just reciting cliché, those kind of clichés according to which eternal confucianism lies in whatever a Chinese does even if he's manufacturing a vacuum.
Chinese civilization have been obliterated by one century of western inspired nationalist and communist revolutions. Those, again, are hard fact. There's nothing traditional chinese in China's political system and society. Chinese civilization has been annihilated.

[Anonymous No.18496426]

>>18496415
Hey it works for the traditionalists/orientalists/theosophists and they are one of the largest infestations of the board

[Anonymous No.18496435]

>>18496420
So what is your non-made up point? Which demon spoke to you and revealed the secrets wokeism?

[Anonymous No.18496445]

>>18496408
>none of your distinctions about wokeness, liberalism or neo-liberalism actually mean anything
thats because they all stem from the same tree but they do differ in developments, scale, time-frame, and rhetorical nuance.
I am glad you understood my point that these are very closely related though
very attentive!

>Buffoon
you can swear on here, your mom won't find out

[Anonymous No.18496459]

>>18496399
For the last time, "Westernization" is not the same thing as simply adopting technology, or even representative government. The West as a concept is dead; whatever it meant in the 20th century is no longer relevant to the 21st. It has lost all meaning; similarly, MBS deciding to make a break with religion is not a Western move, it is an Eastern tactic; he has taken power from the clerics to center power on himself. Whether MBS says that women in Saudi wear the veil or drive a car depends on whether option A or B controls the clerics more effectively.

[Anonymous No.18496461]

>>18496435
i know its hard to hear but
>books
>life experience
>documentaries
>Classes

>>18496426
and that's why that shit rules

[Anonymous No.18496465]

>>18496399
Please listen to >>18496459
you can learn a lot from him

[Anonymous No.18496484]

>>18496461
Do you have a point beyond "lol im rite and ur wrong"?

[Anonymous No.18496489]

>>18496459
Ah yes so the whole world adopts western ground principles, western political systems, western law, western sociology, but it has nothing to do with the west and only proves the west is dead while the east just fakes to be dead because it's in fact too strong.

[Anonymous No.18496493]

>>18496445
You're a smug buffoon then, which is typical for liberals. Never mind that all the data says that the West is declining; decolonization was what 50 years ago now? I bet you believe we did that because some creepy people with philosophy degrees said that colonialism is bad. In truth, we just didn't have the money for it any more.

[Anonymous No.18496495]

>>18496484
You cant see past the insults because youre so self-centered

[Anonymous No.18496499]

>>18496495
You've literally done nothing but say I made up what I posted. Which is true. I made it up. Brilliant analysis.

[Anonymous No.18496502]

>>18496493
"We" did it because the USSR and the USA didn't want european powers to have colonies anymore. Anticolonialism is a western ideology as well.

[Anonymous No.18496505]

>>18496493
Yes, I am totally a liberal bro, you know what that is
These creepy people with philosophy degrees challenged the shared truths that knitted society enough that cracks appeared, and now the US, UK, and French empires are in decline because violence alone is not enough to enforce authority
How dumb are you that you can see why you're wrong but can't connect the dots?

[Anonymous No.18496506]

>>18496493
The West was absurdly rich and dominant when decolonization began, what you're saying doesn't make any sense. Colonies also often turned a profit

[Anonymous No.18496515]

>>18496493
>In truth, we just didn't have the money for it any more.
There was still plenty of money for it, but the political will wasn't there anymore. And it would impede using the colonies as pools of replacement for white workers, which was becoming a concern.

[Anonymous No.18496516]

>>18496499
because everything you've said is nonsense that has no substance

[Anonymous No.18496523]

>>18496502
Anti-colonialism is an imperialism. The US and the USSR partitioned Europe and then partitioned Europe's colonies. Simple as. There were some exceptions here and there but largely that is what took place 1940-1990

[Anonymous No.18496525]

>>18496523
thats dumb and factually wrong

[Anonymous No.18496531]

>>18496516
>maybe if I rephrase "i'm right you're wrong" again it will mean more than it did five posts ago

[Anonymous No.18496534]

>>18496523
Exactly and it was made all clear during the Suez crisis.

[Anonymous No.18496539]

>>18496515
Fertility had not yet fallen below replacement level.

[Anonymous No.18496542]

>>18496489
>Western ground principles
Are politically palatable, but entirely irrelevant

>Western political systems
If they vote for Eastern policies, then have you fixed anything?

>Western law
There is no copyright on the Code of Justinian, or the Code Napoleon, that's reason enough to adopt them, with some local flavour, it makes stoning women in Pakistan easier that they have Sharia written up in Western style

>Western sociology
Hell, that's like the worst shit we've ever come up with, no wonder they like it. Really should have shot all the sociologists and psychologists and taught critical thinking when we had the chance.

It's a grand irrelevancy, the West has updated a lot of things, but ultimately Western ideas work like a computer; only so clever and good as the user. If the world stopped accepting American funny money tomorrow then you'd see that nobody cared from the outset of your moralistic crusade.

[Anonymous No.18496553]

>>18496534
Based suezposter. You were harping on this issue in another unrelated thread yesterday iirc

[Anonymous No.18496555]

>>18496531

[Anonymous No.18496564]

>>18496542
Modern western ideas of secularism, democracy, feminism etc. are just absolutely terrible for long term prosperity regardless of how you feel about their immediate moral valence.

[Anonymous No.18496568]

>>18496555
I'll accept those numbers as an argument

[Anonymous No.18496574]

>>18496568

[Anonymous No.18496575]

>>18496525
read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman". A direct european colonial management was replaced by the financial management of the USA.

[Anonymous No.18496576]

>>18496575
not denying that the US resumed the colonial regimes

[Anonymous No.18496579]

>>18496575
Yeah but that doesn't work so well does it lmao. Look at what happened to the Congo

[Anonymous No.18496583]

>>18496505
>>18496506
>>18496515
Did France and Britian have the money for Colonization after WW2? Clearly only if America wanted them to keep on having colonies. Therefore there wasn't enough money any more for colonialism, and America was anti-colonial. Fifty-odd random African wars later and here we are, being reverse-colonized because America doesn't care about that either.

Sounds great guys, Western values are really winning.

[Anonymous No.18496592]

>>18496583
>America was anti-colonial

[Anonymous No.18496596]

>>18496539
But there was already concern that the workforce would price itself out.
Maintaining "American Dream" levels of quality of life was infinitely more costly on the Western world than kicking some Algerian's teeth in. Which is evidenced by the fact that France has kept on doing it everywhere else in Africa on the down low.

[Anonymous No.18496600]

>>18496542
>Are politically palatable, but entirely irrelevant
So irrelevant it destroys almost all eastern traditional societies.

>If they vote for Eastern policies, then have you fixed anything?
Ok so it's irrelevant too all their political systems are copied from western political systems because they follow "eastern policies" whatever that means.

>There is no copyright on the Code of Justinian, or the Code Napoleon, that's reason enough to adopt them, with some local flavour, it makes stoning women in Pakistan easier that they have Sharia written up in Western style
The law is one of the deepest foundation of civilization there is, but again it's irrelevant all law systems in the world are built on french or english law and whatever custom or theocratic law preexisted in accessory and receding.

>Hell, that's like the worst shit we've ever come up with, no wonder they like it. Really should have shot all the sociologists and psychologists and taught critical thinking when we had the chance.
Too bad China is self-modelling after them.

>It's a grand irrelevancy, the West has updated a lot of things, but ultimately Western ideas work like a computer; only so clever and good as the user. If the world stopped accepting American funny money tomorrow then you'd see that nobody cared from the outset of your moralistic crusade.
Imagine believing 21st century America is alone responsible for the thorough westernization on the world ongoing for two centuries at least.

[Anonymous No.18496609]

>>18496553
It wasn't me but thanks.

[Anonymous No.18496610]

>>18496583
France kept Algeria until 1962... ?

[Anonymous No.18496611]

>>18496564
That is true, which is why plenty of nations are trying to stay non-aligned between America and China. These nations don't really want American insanity to be their reigning ideology, but would also like to avoid being exploited to death by the Chinese. It's a hard life when you're just a little nation trying not to get demographically fucked by the two most objectively terrible superpowers that have ever existed.

[Anonymous No.18496613]

>>18496596
Need a stonetoss edit but with feet and orientalism instead of diversity and burgers

[Anonymous No.18496645]

>>18496613
> I have a folder for that.

[Anonymous No.18496653]

>>18496645
You are truly a man of taste, I am in awe

[Anonymous No.18496654]

>>18496645

[Anonymous No.18496692]

>>18496654

[Anonymous No.18496709]

>>18496583
>Fifty-odd random African wars later and here we are, being reverse-colonized because America doesn't care about that either.
That's a racial problem, not a cultural one. Those people don't impose their culture at all, they can't do better than adopt afroamerican "culture" blasted from across the pond.

[Anonymous No.18496723]

>>18496692

[Anonymous No.18497887]

>>18495916
>epic troll