/pg/ - Platonism General

[Anonymous No.18474920]

It's time again.

Previous thread: 18402046

Discord: https://discord.gg/nNgfFT46

Plato's Dialogues

The following is the general order the Neoplatonists of Iamblichus, Syrianus, and Proclus' school [The Anonymous Prolegomena to Platonic Doctrine] recommended reading Plato's dialogues in, merged with recommendations from previous threads and John M. Cooper's order.

If you get stuck with something Plato is saying, check either Proclus or Ficino's commentaries. If, somehow, they don't resolve the aporia, go to the secondary sources list. The dialogues with "⦾" are marked as essential parts of the "Platonic Canon" by the three aforementioned Neoplatonists: a decad crowned by the Timaeus and Parmenides. Curiously, the Republic and Laws were not part of the curriculum. Those marked with "*" are of disputed authorship or is confirmed to be written by Plato's students but circulated under his name. Once you finish Timaeus and Parmenides (esp. the latter), you can comfortably start reading the Neoplatonists.

-- THE ORDER OF PLATO'S DIALOGUES --

⦾ Alcibiades I
>Protagoras
⦾ Gorgias
>Laws, Books I-V
>Euthyphro
>Apology
>Crito
⦾ Phaedo

⦾ Cratylus
⦾ Theaetetus
⦾ Sophist
⦾ Statesman
>Laws, Book X
>Meno
⦾ Phaedrus
>Ion
⦾ Symposium
⦾ Philebus
>Republic
⦾ Timaeus
>Critias
⦾ Parmenides
>Laws, Books VI-IX, XI-XXVI
>Epinomis*

>The Letters

>Alcibiades II*
>Hipparchus
>Rival Lovers*
>Theages*
>Charmides
>Laches
>Lysis
>Euthydemus
>Greater Hippias
>Lesser Hippias
>Menexenus
>Clitophon
>Minos*

>Definitions*
>On Justice*
>On Virtue*
>Demodocus
>Sisyphus*
>Halcyon*
>Eryxias*
>Axiochus*
>Epigrams*

[Anonymous No.18474937]

Previous thread
>>18402046

[Anonymous No.18474947]

>>18474920
Is Medieval Christian mysticism (specifically Eckhart and Tauler) compatible with Platonism?

[Anonymous No.18474953]

For a proper introduction to Platonic metaphysics, philosophy and it's historical background that isn't butchered by academic caricatures:
>Eric D. Perl - Thinking Being
>Algis Uždavinys - Orpheus and the Roots of Platonism
>Kenneth Sylvan Guthrie - The Pythagorean Sourcebook and Library
>Lloyd P. Gerson - From Plato to Platonism

Middle Platonism:
>Stephen Gersh - Middle Platonism and Neoplatonism

Neoplatonism:
>Porphyry - Launching-Points to the Realm of Mind
>Llyod P. Gerson - Plotinus
>Gregory Shaw - Theurgy and the Soul
>Radek Chlup - Proclus
>Sara Rappe - Reading Neoplatonism

Christian Neoplatonism:
>Eric D. Perl - Theophany
>Eric D. Perl - Methexis
>Deirdre Carabine - The Unknown God
>Stephen Gersh - From Iamblichus to Eriugena
>Fran O'Rourke - Ps. Dionysius and the Metaphysics of Aquinas
>David Albertson - Mathematical Theologies
>Michael Allen - Ficino

Max Tegmark's Mathematical Universe is a great read too.

When reading Plato's Dialogues, a good practice would be to read them alongside Proclus' or Marsilio Ficino's commentaries.

Resources & notes:
If you can get the Loeb print of a text, opt for that. the Cooper transl. of Plato is fine.
Plotinus' Enneads + Commentary
>https://www.parmenides.com/publications/publications-plotinus.html
Proclus' Elements of Theology w/ Dodds’ commentary.
The Classics of Western Spirituality Series is good but with Ps. Dionysius, read the Rev. John Parker transl. instead:
>https://sacred-texts.com/chr/dio/index.htm
The only good print of Eriugena's Division of Nature:
>https://books.doaks.org/catalog/book/periphyseon
Wayne J. Hankey's publications:
>https://independent.academia.edu/WayneHankey
Gregory Shaw’s publications:
>https://stonehill.academia.edu/GregoryShaw
Intro to mathematical Platonism:
>https://critique-of-pure-interest.blogspot.com/2016/04/prelude-to-mathematical-neo-platonism_42.html?m=1
Ancient Commentaries on Aristotle
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentaria_in_Aristotelem_Graeca

[Anonymous No.18474975]

>not an anime edition

[Anonymous No.18475044]

[Anonymous No.18475074]

>>18474975
play-doh>anime

[Anonymous No.18475077]

>>18475074
Unironically very based.

[Anonymous No.18475083]

>>18474920
I hate anime so much it is unreal.

[Anonymous No.18475096]

>>18475044
What's the sauce on this?

[Anonymous No.18475103]

>>18474920
Why are the books in Laws split so?

[Anonymous No.18475125]

>>18475096
had it saved on my phone, I imagine it's from James William's book "Gilles Deleuze's Philosophy of Time: A Critical Introduction and Guide"

[Anonymous No.18475178]

>>18475125
Ah. I've already read what is he referring to twice so if he is just summarizing I'm probably not missing much.

[Anonymous No.18475187]

>Play-doh is the total opposite to Plato! Its only constant property is matter: its form is ever changing! Play-doh is the ultimate archetype of evil with its association with ignorant children and total disinterest in stability! Play-doh is the parody of Plato, his interior double, the Anti-Plato! The devil has horns, but you cannot ascribe any property to Play-doh! It is the ultimate example of the negation of the good! Play-doh does not follow the reason of arithmetic it is many and it is one at the same time! Play-doh is total unreason!

[Anonymous No.18475249]

>>18475187
Play-doh is actually the purest expression of Plato and the rest of Greek philosophy with it, because it represents the actualisation of the mind, as Heraclitus said "Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play," it is the a-priori structure of forming being manifested; it is the imitation of the creator, the demiurge, fashioning and shaping the world. As such it represents a fundamental being-over of the individual will, where we find the urge to destroy the chaotic, asymmetrical desire to assert oneself to no avail, to only more self-negation. One becomes true being.

[Anonymous No.18475274]

Alright fags, how do I actually DO theurgy? Buddhist threads have (or had before Guenonfag came back from break) discussions about how to meditate and stuff. What does a Platonist actually DO?

[Anonymous No.18475291]

>>18475249
Heraclitus is also much more interested in becoming - Playing with Play-doh - where Plato is no fun, being and school work.

[Anonymous No.18475310]

>>18475274
Can recommend this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAiozL9ASDQ

[Anonymous No.18475319]

Jowett?

[Anonymous No.18475392]

>>18474947
Yes, after Wagner extensively studied both Platonism and Christian mysticism in the 1870's, he produced Parsifal which is a unification of the two.

>PARSIFAL:
>I scarcely tread,
>yet seem already to have come far.

>GURNEMANZ:
>You see, my son,
>time here becomes space.

[Anonymous No.18475425]

>>18474947
Yes, after Wagner extensively studied both Platonism and Christian mysticism in the 1870's, he produced Parsifal which is a unification of the two.

>PARSIFAL:
>I scarcely tread,
>yet seem already to have come far.

>GURNEMANZ:
>You see, my son,
>time here becomes space.

and

>In the afternoon we play Brahms Triumphlied, much dismay over the meager character of this composition which even friend Nietzsche has praised to us: Handel, Mendelssohn, and Schumann wrapped in leather. R. very angry, he talks about his longing one day to find in music something that expresses Christ's transcendence, something in which creative impulse, an emotion which speaks to the emotions, can be seen.

[Anonymous No.18475459]

>>18474947
Isn't many of the eastern Orthodox Christians inspired very much inspired by platonism through pseudo-dionysus? I'm not a theologist.
Furthermore >>18475310 is very apparent in the work of Dante and further in the Beguines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkFMG817zQ8..

[Anonymous No.18475602]

>playdohnism general
the boys are back in town it seems

[Anonymous No.18475663]

>>18475310
I don't understand how this actually explains what the anon was asking. Yes it talks about divine madness and inspiration but it's just restating what is said in the Phaedrus, and doesn't explain how to into theurgy.

[Anonymous No.18475676]

What books explain the mystical state of nothingness which isn't actually nothingness?

[Anonymous No.18475692]

>>18475663
>find a femboi
>let your eros elevate you to divine truth
>profit

[Anonymous No.18475703]

>>18475692
>femboi
This is anti-Platonic, you should know it can only come through the love of Man and Woman.

[Anonymous No.18475749]

>>18475459
>Isn't many of the eastern Orthodox Christians inspired very much inspired by platonism through pseudo-dionysus?

The EOs who like Pseudo-Dionysius would claim that he's NOT a Platonist. Typically to call him one means he was more Platonist than Christian, and thus only paying lip service to the latter.

I haven't gone too deep into Dionysius nor the scholarship that surrounds him, but apparently one consensus is that the Paulist Press edition translated by Colm Lubheild is shit. Eric Perl doesn't like it, nor do many EO commentators. This isn't the first time I hear a Paulist Press translation is sub-par, although I commend them on having good taste to know what to publish and being one of the rare publishers doing it.

[Anonymous No.18475773]

>>18475703
symposium is quite explicit in stating that it is love of men, especially young men.

[Anonymous No.18475787]

I'm unfortunately not gay enough to get turned on by non-fem boys

[Anonymous No.18475796]

>>18475773
>another person misunderstands Platonic eros and the multiple points of view in the Symposium

[Anonymous No.18475951]

how many of you have actually read the Laws

[Anonymous No.18476182]

>>18474920
I hate the smell of play-doh.

[Anonymous No.18476195]

>>18476182
I love the taste of play-doh.

[Anonymous No.18476812]

>>18475951
Not me.

[Anonymous No.18477355]

bump

[Anonymous No.18477372]

>>18477355
Ehm bump - why doesn't it work?

[Anonymous No.18477393]

>>18477372
Well... fuck

[Anonymous No.18477701]

:(

[Anonymous No.18477935]

>>18475749
Interesting post

[Anonymous No.18477941]

Any evidence that Dionysius was Ammonius Saccas?