/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.1844473]

Hey /lit/

I'm writing an essay on TS Eliot's The Lovesong of J. Alfred Prufrock. It's pretty easygoing with the criteria, he even said I could write it in the style of James Joyce, which I'd do if I thought I could write like that.

I'm just wondering if you can give me any helpful anecdotes, or interesting points and facts about the poem. I'm not very well acquainted with it, or the author, or his style.

The essay is more focusing on the writing, and how it's worded, and why it's worded that way than the actual writer. But since he was a modernist, and was in Paris during the cafe society days, I think I can get away with a bit of references to him, and Ezra Pound, and other writers.

Anything you can tell me about it would be very helpful. It's a very prolific poem. Thanks a lot.

Here's a picture of TS Eliot.

[Anonymous No.1844482]

sorry /lit/ cant help you /lit/ doesnt read

[Anonymous No.1844485]

I have no idea what you're atlking about so I'm going to sage and return that movie thread

[Anonymous No.1844499]

TS Eliot was a banker with Lloyds Banker in London and later a publisher with Faber & Faber. He studies at Harvard and Oxford. Although born in St Loius, he became a British citizen. Recordings exist of his voice. His accent was that of an upper-middle class Englishman. Prufrock is, at least in part about the repressed emotions of the kind associated with that class of person. Eliot himself was a rather buttoned-up character. This was not helped by the madness of his first wife. In later life his vivacious second wife helped him to become a more open and less anxous person.

[Anonymous No.1844509]

>>1844499
thanks, that gives me some better idea of the context of the poem.

[Anonymous No.1844512]

Question: Is there even a way to approach writing about this poem without bringing Eliot's personal life into it? It seems like it's basically impossible.

[Anonymous No.1844515]

Great thread OP! Any other homework we can help you with?

[Anonymous No.1844526]

>>1844515
This thread is not so much about doing my homework, I wanted to have a discussion about the text. I am, after all, taking this course to learn, and on occasion, /lit/ has proven to known a thing or two. I thought this place was for discussion of literature.

But you'd much rather tell me that you're not here to do my homework, and go back over to the non-lit related threads, wouldn't you?

Have you even read the text?

[Anonymous No.1844597]

how full of himself was TS Eliot honestly?

[Sherlock Holmes Guy No.1844623]

>he even said I could write it in the style of James Joyce, which I'd do if I thought I could write like that.

Title your essay, "The Cockstand of J. Alfred Poopfrock".

>>1844512
You could bring mention of this into your essay: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_Author
>"To give a text an Author" and assign a single, corresponding interpretation to it "is to impose a limit on that text."

It would at least take up some space on the paper and provide you with an opportunity to argue with yourself over a couple interpretations of the poem, rather than just one.

I really like that poem, but unfortunately I am not much of a literary critic, nor do I know all that much about Eliot. Have you read any of his other work? That may help you as well. I hope this thread turns out well; like you said, it's an opportunity for discussion more than it is us doing your essay for you.

[Anonymous No.1844658]

You can interpret the poem into being about Prufrock dealing with problem concerning his sexuality, which it is suspected Eliot himself dealt with, being very uncomfortable with sex in his marriage (this of course could just be because Vivienne was nuts). Essays using gender theory to prove this point tend to be very interesting, although I don't personally agree with them.

Themes to be conscious of while reading (I'm remembering these images off the top of my head, they are by no means direct quotes):
-indecision: pair of claws scuttling across silent seas-crabs scuttle sideways; allusions to Hamlet
-sexuality: the woman talking of Michelagelo-sculptor of David, the Greek's idea of the perfect man; the oysters (supposed aphrodisiac) and one night cheap hotels--also pay attention to his insecurity in dealing with any references to sexuality he makes
-age and impending death: the footman (representing death) calls to him; his hair is growing thin etc.

These three themes tie together in a very obvious way in the poem which you'll see when you read it. I'm not doing all the work for you, just giving you a springboard.

[Anonymous No.1844664]

P.S. How old are you? Because I had to study this poem in 3 different classes before turning 18.

[Anonymous No.1845247]

bump

[Anonymous No.1845252]

>>1844664
I'm 19, almost 20. I never encountered this is high school because my parents sent me to a Seminary School to implement the beliefs of Fundamentalist Christianity on me. It didn't succeed, but anyways - we had a shitty literature program, and were really only allowed to read hardcore fundie Christian authors in our english classes.

[Anonymous No.1845258]

>>1844623
Yes, precisely. Also I lol'd at the possible Joyce title. Should totally do that.
>>1844658
This helps a lot. Thanks very much. I don't really want people to do the work for me, really. I like to think of stuff on my own. But sometimes, we get new ideas based on the ideas of others. And also sometimes in poems, especially with poets like Eliot, we miss things. A fresh eye never hurts.

[Anonymous No.1845381]

bump

any other interpretations?

[Anonymous No.1845451]

There's a ton of trisomy up in here.

Here are some of my favorites:

>he even said I could write it in the style of James Joyce, which I'd do if I thought I could write like that.

>why it's worded that way than the actual writer

>It's a very prolific poem.

>using gender theory to prove this point tend to be very interesting

You're all fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.1845561]

>>1845451
You sir, are and idiot. :/

[Anonymous No.1845570]

>>1845451
i fail to see how any of that is retarded... I don't even think you know the context of any of those sentences or statements

im guessing you're a troll

[Anonymous No.1845592]

>>1844473
http://lipietz.net/IMG/pdf/Traduire_Prufrock_selon_Eco.pdf

[KOZ !Ry9.HRD23k No.1845596]

[Anonymous No.1847036]

>>1845592
My french is not so terrific. Although, soon I will be studying it.

[Anonymous No.1847043]

>>1844512
>>1844597
I too would like to know the answers to these questions.

[Anonymous No.1847246]

I guess people here just don't like Eliot very much, or don't want to discuss him, or Prufrock?

I'll put forth something. I'm reading it again right now, and I just realized that Eliot is poking a bit of fun at Prufrock, because the forms and meters he uses to write the poem are sometimes called ‘Heroic Couplets,’ when in fact, there is nothing heroic about Prufrock at all. In fact, he's quite pathetic.

[Anonymous No.1847274]

>I'll put forth something. I'm reading it again right now, and I just realized that Eliot is poking a bit of fun at Prufrock, because the forms and meters he uses to write the poem are sometimes called ‘Heroic Couplets,’ when in fact, there is nothing heroic about Prufrock at all. In fact, he's quite pathetic.


Swift, Pope and Dryden famously used this technique before T. S. Eliot.

[Anonymous No.1847300]

>>1847246

Well may he be pathetic, but make no mistake: he is you. He is me. Prufrock is man. He is the human condition.

[Anonymous No.1847309]

>>1844512
Instead of bringing Eliot himself into the essay, analyze the society of his time and what type of picture it paints. Society then is far enough removed from our own now that it's easier to observe.

[Anonymous No.1847337]

>>1847300
So what do you think Eliot's trying to say here?

Because I'd say that's pretty much spot on.

>>1847309
Yeah. That's what I ended up doing. I wrote about the times in which he lived, to give some context, and background. Then I analyzed Modernism, and the need for a new style of writing. Then I closely examined all the allusions, the wording, symbols, images, allusions, structure, etc.

I'm just doing what he wanted to do, but it's a very strange way of getting your students to write an essay. I'm used to writing Short Story Literary Criticism Essays, so I'm a bit out of my element.

But I think I've done well. I have about four hundred words left to jazz it up with a deep look at "what the poem means." and what Eliot was really trying to say.

[Anonymous No.1847340]

>>1847274
I'm not familiar with their works. I'm a noob to poetry. But I'm learning!

[Anonymous No.1847361]

>>1847337

What I am getting from Lovesong that routinely blows my scrote off is the magical friction between the everyday world that we move through, as against the world of infinite perfection which haunts our dreams and expectations.

It is the infinitely exciting disappointment of being alive.

I love the Lovesong.

[Anonymous No.1847393]

What do you guys get from these last lines of the poem?

"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.

I do not think they will sing to me.

I have seen them riding seaward on the waves
Combing the white hair of the waves blown back
When the wind blows the water white and black.

We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown"

I'm not sure I get it. Any interpretations?

[Anonymous No.1847412]

>>1847393

Yes, this is absolutely about the bittersweet pain of being an immortal being, yet destined to dust. We taste and sense the infinite, set deep in our hearts and minds, but ultimately we are denied infinity. In the end, we can look but we can't touch.

The mermaids are perfection: infinity, purity, all desire fulfilled.

We are Prufrock: allowed to watch, to sense and feel the fact that this is where belong, this is who we are. But only for a minute, until the dream ends and we awake.

To another cup of coffee, another cup of tea. To going bald.

[Anonymous No.1847437]

>>1847412
And then to die.

It makes sense to me now.

What a beautiful poem.

[Anonymous No.1847459]

>>1847437

And how. Makes you think, after penning it, did old (20 something) year old Eliot sit back and realise what he had written?

Fkcing genius.

[Anonymous No.1847468]

Elliot was a douche that wrote to sound smart and make as many obscure references as possible. He said himself that Prufrock wasn't an inner dialogue but he was talking to someone else because his critics understood the poem for what it was.

[Anonymous No.1847473]

>>1847459
Quite right. Quite right. I have a newfound respect for this man. Let me ask you, have you read The Wasteland? I was thinking of reading that once I've got some free time next.

Is it good? It looks very good.

[Anonymous No.1847612]

>>1847473

[Anonymous No.1847637]

>>1847468
>comments on Eliot's obscurity
>produces a second sentence that makes no sense no matter how I try to understand it
>well played

[Anonymous No.1847684]

Dear /lit/
I'm currently considering what I want for my upcoming birthday, 8/01, including which books to get along with my plethora of video games. I know I'm going to want this one book on Japanese myth (not a weeaboo, I happen to be interested in world myths, already have some Greco-roman, Hindu, Native American, Norse, etc. going to want more folklore fairytale type books in the future). I know I'm going to want to continue my reading of Neil Gaiman's Sandman, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, some other (good) Superhero comics. Frankly, modern adult fantasy novels aren't really in my repertoire and I'm wondering if this is any good? Thinking of it now because Witcher 2 was a bit of an impulse buy for me (haven't even played it yet). Any other recommendations for me maybe
Somewhat unrelated note, still reading through a H.P. Lovecraft anthology and collection of Shakespeare's plays. Sorry for writing a novella.

[Anonymous No.1847690]

>>1847684
oops, sorry
didn't mean to post here