/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18431913]

Thoughts on the books of David Graeber? Are you a fan? Yay or nay?

[Anonymous No.18431922]

No he's a retard

[Anonymous No.18431925]

Yes he's based

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18432026]

Insightful intellect, pleasant and funny. The world needs more like him.

[Anonymous No.18432037]

A pseud.
High praise from butterfly is always damning.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18432112]

>>18432037
Says the Evola reader.

[Anonymous No.18432132]

>>18431913
anyone care to argue in favor or against this book instead of just shitposting? thought about reading it

[Anonymous No.18432137]

>>18432132
just steal the pdf from online, read the first chapter then a random chapter, and decide for yourself. you know where to find books online, right?

[Anonymous No.18432161]

>>18432137
sure, but sometimes you'll miss the relevant chapters or the essence this way and a good synopsis by someone who loved or hated it is more useful imo

[Anonymous No.18432164]

>>18432132
It's essential blackpill/greenpill reading

[Anonymous No.18432177]

>Graeber's parents, who were in their forties when Graeber was born, were self-taughtworking classintellectuals in New York.[6]Graeber's mother, Ruth Rubinstein, had been a garment worker, and played the lead role in the 1930s musical comedy revuePins & Needles, staged by theInternational Ladies' Garment Workers' Union.[6][7]Graeber's father Kenneth, who was affiliated with theYouth Communist Leaguein college, participated in theSpanish Revolutionin Barcelona and fought in theSpanish Civil War.[8]He later worked as a plate stripper on offset printers.[6]Both his parents were Jewish.

[Anonymous No.18432190]

This book completely shifted the way I look at human interaction and economics. While it seems like a black pill, it was almost like a relief to learn the historical context and evolution of money/debt.

[Anonymous No.18432212]

>>18432177
/thread

[Anonymous No.18432228]

>>18432177
My mother was in the ILGWU. One of the more radical labor unions in America. That all went away because the U.S. outsourced its textile industries. Ah well.

[Anonymous No.18432251]

>>18432177
Based

[Anonymous No.18432258]

>>18432228
>>18432228
>Several months later, in 1910, the ILGWU led an even larger strike, later named "The Great Revolt," of 60,000cloakmakers. After months of picketing, prominent members of the Jewish community, led byLouis Brandeis, mediated between the ILGWU and the Manufacturers Association.
Your mom helped neurotic Jewish women to drive jobs out of the us

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18432268]

>>18432258
You’re an idiot

[Anonymous No.18432269]

>>18431913
Michael Hudson's "Killing the Host" is the superior version of this book, and Grabber himself has admitted he learned everything he knows from Hudson. Furthermore, Hudson is a gentile and his work is not an "international Bestseller" and therefore his work is less likely to be controlled opposition supported by rent collectors.

[Anonymous No.18432272]

>>18432268
But I'm pretty

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18432278]

>>18432269
>Hudson is a gentile
And a Trot, yes, he’s worth reading too. Don’t be jealous on behalf of the man, don’t bring race into it either. They were friends

[Anonymous No.18432353]

>>18431913
This guy shilled for Babylon on an almost metaphysical level.
For all his work with small tribes he's quite the urbanite bugman.
Also, he spends hundreds of pages talking about how ripping people out of their cultural, familial, ethnic, geographic identities via slavery or debt peonage is bad but seems to think we can overcome capitalism by welding together alienated detached individuals of vastly different backgrounds through sheer will. At least that was the sentiment I got.
He's a micro-multicuturalist.
A land of small communes governed by the people with representation from every LGBTQ under the sun and a dilation station.

[Anonymous No.18432399]

>>18432112
Nobody brought up Evola, I swear to God you were designed to bring down every single conversation. What do you get out of being called a dyke all day? You feel like a test, like something created you to be so hateable that its near impossible not to insult you.

[Anonymous No.18432419]

>>18432268
Okay dyke.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18432424]

>>18432399
Care to explain this conversation takedown >>18432037
this your post, anon? What shit do you read?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18432430]

>>18432353
>he spends hundreds of pages talking about how ripping people out of their cultural, familial, ethnic, geographic identities via slavery or debt peonage is bad but seems to think we can overcome capitalism by welding together alienated detached individuals of vastly different backgrounds through sheer will. At least that was the sentiment I got.
>He's a micro-multicuturalist.
Based, you people say

[Anonymous No.18432445]

>>18432424
What are you on about. You style yourself like an insufferable cunt either purposely to trigger people on 4chan, or you really are that insufferable. Im leaning to the latter because you spend so much time on this board. Nobody wants to feel anger or hatred, but you seem designed to elicit both. I pity you.

[Anonymous No.18432446]

>>18432353
I don’t agree with your conclusions but it’s impressive that with your post you come across as someone that actually read the book. I’m not even sure I agree with Graeber’s conclusions, though his conclusions aren’t the important part of the book. I got so much out of his walk through history and the evolution of money and debt. I like that he stopped at the gold standard so people would argue his historical content instead of whatever his radical conclusions from it would be. I should probably just read more books though.

[Anonymous No.18432450]

>>18432037
Lol. Imagine reading the posts of some dyke bint who went into debt for a women's study degree.

Always filter namefags my dude.

>>18432258
This

[Anonymous No.18432603]

>>18432446
You're right he doesn't really have conclusions but you can read between the lines.
He's wildly inconsistent at times though which makes it hard to place.
For example in his chapters on slavery he's like "How could the natives know the Westerners with questionable morality would take advantage of them.?" I'm pretty sure questionable morality were his exact words.
So here we are with Westerners bad, bushman good.
But then later in the book he explains how Cortez was partly motivated by his debt to old world financial houses. So he absolves him of most historical guilt in a way.
Also he handwaves away philosophy and religion way to easily from a materialist perspective, then later presents this New Age Pantheism type of argument.
I have my notes if this thread is still up after work I'll post some more thoughts.

[Anonymous No.18432650]

>>18432258
textile manufacturing in the USA collapsed in the 1980's

[Anonymous No.18432657]

>>18432353
>Also, he spends hundreds of pages talking about how ripping people out of their cultural, familial, ethnic, geographic identities via slavery or debt peonage is bad but seems to think we can overcome capitalism by welding together alienated detached individuals of vastly different backgrounds through sheer will.
for fun, what do you suggest the deculturalized people do, remain atomized debt peons forever?

[Anonymous No.18432661]

>>18431913

It's a good book. I liked it.

> the story of having to barter horses for hats or whatever at the start of every econ textbook is made up. No economy ever worked like that. Strict barter systems require the pre-existence of money as a baseline for exchange value.
> money started in the west to pay mercenaries who you'd never have to deal with again, and were outside the normal economy.
> the section about the African farmers wives who constantly made slightly unequal trades with each other as a way to tighten social bonds. To make an exactly equal trade was an insult, a sign that you wanted no further business with that person.
> that british guy in Hong Kong who got back his own check as change after it had been passed around as currency for a month between a dozen traders

[Anonymous No.18432673]

>>18432603
i consider those things to be essentially tics, it's impossible for a man to spend his life in academia and not absorb at least some of the can't. they're superficial and can be safely ignored since the bulk of the text isn't social justice pieties

[Anonymous No.18432682]

>>18432661
that third item reminds me of panurge's ode to debt

[Anonymous No.18432754]

>>18432037
Her praise is useful if you understand what niche she occupies: the archetypal kike-blind pinko. Last time she recommended it I looked up "jews" in this book just to see how they bamboozle the compound-interest barista paypigs and had all my biases confirmed.

>oy vey shiksa we had to be creditors in medieval Europe because those mean goyim just wouldn't let us live like the peasants we always wanted to be. we were FORCED to exploit your great great great grandparents.
>we don't do that now though that's just a trope

[Anonymous No.18432787]

>>18432754
yawn

[Anonymous No.18432794]

>yawn

[Anonymous No.18432826]

>>18431913
I don't trust a jew teaching me about economics, history, or anything really.

[Anonymous No.18432851]

>>18432657
Stop polluting the small amount of culture I have left.

[Anonymous No.18432863]

>>18432851
But bro the ethnic restraunts...

[Anonymous No.18432890]

>>18432258
She worked for Levi's in the 70s. It was her first "real job" and she liked the union because they got good wages. All that went away with Ronnie Reagan though and all those jobs were outsourced to Guatemala. It was good while it lasted though and she did okay anyways.

The far right really is decadent. You can blame Reagan and his people and those who followed him for hollowing out the U.S. manufacturing and industrial economy and replacing it with just finance. And then they scream "Jews!" at people who point out how that happened. I guess it worked out okay however since we can just trade meme stocks now.

https://youtu.be/3U545tJMwoQ

[Anonymous No.18432951]

>>18432603
I loved his bit about platonic forms and Greek philosophy originating from the confluence of standard currency beginning it’s circulation. That was fun and I just imagined /lit/ seething.

I also don’t think he downplayed religion at all. He goes over religious power house institutions and their control over money and power too. Also how biblical phrases are couched in terms of debt was hilarious.

[Anonymous No.18432969]

Why did he conflate favours and debt though? Owing someone a pound of silver is not the same as 'owing' someone for letting you sleep on his couch.

[Anonymous No.18433019]

>>18431913
So /lit/ been reading this book:
Where he says that in human economy societies
Honour is the root to economic activity
Where every human = every other human
But in credit/debt societies like sumer(Mesopotamia), Ancient Greek i.e market economy
Honour is there but there's a catch
It's honour + Price (of your honour)
The author goes on to suggest that the elites get really anxious and bring about full blown patriarchy
So that they can "protect" their honour
Women's rights take a dip
They are repressed, women are treated as property their virginity valued
Because you can't sell (marry off) damaged goods/commodities right ?
The reason the elites get anxious is because in a market economy people use debt and loan credit to the plebs
Seeing the plebs unable to pay their debts and go into debt bondage/peonage really ignites the need to dominate and turf economic - politics
There's another catch the farmers/plebs who get fucked due to this unfair system
Go full nomadic i.e go to the country-side to run away from the debtors (in sumer's case the deserts of Arabia)
And they to start hating on the city life, city women, city culture and market economy
That proves why religions like: Christianity, Islam and Judaism is so vehemently against BABYLON
Remember the term: harlot of Babylon in bible ? Patriarchal men in the deserts wrote that apparently in disobedience to the City-civilization
>i dont know how to feel about this, its .... idk very dishonest.

[Anonymous No.18433052]

>>18432851
and what do you plan to do when the profit motive inevitably dissolves what's left?

[Anonymous No.18433064]

as based as commie can basically go.

[Anonymous No.18433099]

>>18432826
Who better to inform you about usury, goy?

>>18432890
>You can blame Reagan and his people and those who followed him for hollowing out the U.S. manufacturing and industrial economy and replacing it with just finance. And then they scream "Jews!"

Reagan loved the jews so much he made up a fake story about personally liberating Auschwitz just so they'd like him more.

In reality, the "right" you imagine to be raging antisemites worship jews.

The fascistic right who actually criticizes Jews: you've never read them, never met them, and wouldn't know how to respond if you did.

[Anonymous No.18433139]

>>18432890
Stay anon for good.

[Anonymous No.18433146]

>>18431913
>reading marxist readings of history
They’re all such garbage

[Anonymous No.18433208]

>>18432969
Because he's a jew and conflating owing his cousin 150K for your student loan and owing your buddy a coffee is what they're all about.

[Anonymous No.18433286]

>>18433052
I'm already riding the Tiger if you must know

[Anonymous No.18433292]

>>18433146
>marxist

He's an anarchist

[Anonymous No.18433308]

>>18433292
Hes a jew

[Anonymous No.18433343]

>>18432951
>I also don’t think he downplayed religion at all. He goes over religious power house institutions and their control over money and power too. Also how biblical phrases are couched in terms of debt was hilarious.
It was completely downplayed. Religion for social control, etc. Tired argumentation.

[Anonymous No.18433376]

>>18432112
>imagine name-fagging this hard
holy shit KYS. PLZ.

[Anonymous No.18433400]

>>18433292
>>18433308
>Hes a jew
This. Jews are whatever they need to be. Ideologies are just tools for them.

All the jewish Neocons of the aughts were communists in the 60s. The only constant was what served the interests of their race.

[Anonymous No.18433401]

>>18432969
He doesn’t conflate it. Debt is when you start measuring things.

[Anonymous No.18433473]

>>18432424
I’ve been committed to this board for about a week now and I have seen so much pettiness and vitriol flung at you...can’t help but wonder if it’s deserved. Although it’s probably not. Looking forward to the future encounters. Stay strong papillon

[Anonymous No.18433485]

>>18432951
>platonic forms and Greek philosophy originating from the confluence of standard currency beginning it’s circulation
Holy cringe.

[Anonymous No.18433859]

>>18433485
Jews have moved to claiming they invented the West. Yoram Hazony, for example, is claiming much the same thing.

When Whites are gone they want to claim inheritance of our ruins.

[Anonymous No.18434221]

>>18433139
>Stay anon for good.
No one's anonymous on the internet. Not here either. You don't need to make cryptic threats on the internet either, but I understand a lot of conservatives are having anger problems these days. But I want you to know that I accept your hatred, absorbing it, and reflecting it back to you in the form of healing love.

[Anonymous No.18434230]

>>18431925
>>18431922
The duality of man

[Anonymous No.18434268]

>>18433099
Eh. I think the right points to real grievances among people, but they just end up directing them away toward "the Jewish bankers" (presumably non-Jewish bankers are fine), against foreign-born workers, against blacks, against "communists," or Protestants vs. Catholics and vice versa, or whatever formulation you want. And then when others start digging into the nitty-gritty of how the financial system actually works, you're told "shut up!" And then our friend ITT makes these cryptic threats toward me. "Stay anon for good!" But I am still keeping him in my heart like the Care Bears.

What is he going to do? Kill me? Okay, better hurry up and do it. For criticizing Ronald Reagan? The president who was making up stories about liberating Auschwitz? That's who this guy is mad about me criticizing? That's pretty sad.

[Anonymous No.18434289]

Graeber was possibly the most based left winger alive.

[Anonymous No.18434749]

>>18433473
I was like you at first. You'll find out.

[Anonymous No.18434841]

>>18431913
I try my best not to read neurotic Jewish authors who all seem to think collectively that if we just united the world under micro-multiracialism to deprive Europeans in a way to pursue cultural ‘tolerance’ - because of their belief that Jews of all stripes are too be safe in such a ‘society’ of different tribal groups. In the absolute end, even if a Jew is left or right they will perform massive mental gymnastics to only conclude that it's only about to protect them, it’s always about them; their natural chameleons. they have a culture of being leaders and teachers to educate the subhuman none-Jewish masses, in order to do so they must survive.

[Anonymous No.18434870]

>>18431913
He was controlled opposition and they off'ed him as soon as he started to slip out of his collar

[Anonymous No.18434917]

>>18431913
He maybe be right, or completely wrong on a left wing level. But in the end he neither correct or left/right wing - He is a Jew.

[Anonymous No.18434921]

>>18434289
You haven't read much.

[Anonymous No.18434933]

>>18433473
Butterfly doesn't read or engage with other posters, she blogposts about herself and then engages in thread-length chatrooms centered around herself. She is also very callous.

Her only concerns are shilling some anarchist book she hasn't read and 2003 vintage reddit atheism.

[Anonymous No.18434977]

>>18434917
Bingo.

[Anonymous No.18434994]

>>18434933
This. We despise her for good reasons.

[Anonymous No.18435197]

>>18431913
I liked that book a lot

[Anonymous No.18435230]

>>18434933
I've never seen her make a productive post. I have, on the other hand, seen her successfully called out numerous time (flashbacks to those Spengler and Flashman threads).

[Anonymous No.18435587]

>>18434933
Read the thread in the pic. Her help was crude. I feel as though she was genuinely trying to help, but whatever. It’s a wonder why she even bothered. May I ask which anarchist book you’re referring to? Also, does she ever attempt poetry?

[Anonymous No.18435629]

>>18432278
>butterfly recommends Hudson
Well I guess I'm not reading him either. I wouldn't want to turn into an insufferable dyke.

[Anonymous No.18435638]

>>18433308
physiognomy is real

[Anonymous No.18436019]

>>18434221
Sure thing, Butters.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18436156]

Why is it that anyone even joking about being actually 16 gets a ban, but this other commonly broken rule is IGNORED.
If it isn’t against the rules, why am I able to flag them for it? DO YOUR JOB PLEASE

>>18432445
>Nobody wants to feel anger or hatred
How new?

>>18433400
>Reagan and Buckley were communists in the 1960s

>>18433473
I admit to making a few weak posts in retort or in poking around for info. They hate me for various reasons, but lately the major thorn in their sides is my filling out the name field. But they’re forever trying to reduce me to a dysmorphic male. Nonsense.
Hope I don’t step on any of your sensibilities in the future.

>>18434921
There’s a lot of them.

>>18434933
Epicurus isn’t stoicism. What a miserable example. This guy posted this in /lit/.

>>18435587
I’ve read many. Maybe he means the anthology No Gods, No Masters.

[Anonymous No.18437078]

>>18434933
real incel hours in here

[Anonymous No.18437084]

>>18433286
and how are you sure that's not just a cope?

[Anonymous No.18437554]

>>18434933
Butters is a fucking whore

[Anonymous No.18438020]

>>18436156
Yeah, I hear all of that nonsense.
With regards to the statement about my sensibilities, of course I wouldn’t mind you making that step. Because my response could be an opportunity to post something worthy of the thread. Instead of posting, you know, humorless disparagement, or anonymous intimations of psychological disinhibition. Apropos of nothing, I’m thinking of becoming a tripfag myself. And, in thinking about that, I imagine becoming a sort of butterfly as well

[Anonymous No.18438026]

>>18436156
grandma's online!!! time for her to talk to all the men a third her age!

[Anonymous No.18438333]

>>18431913
>enter thread hoping to talk about an interesting book
>IT'S DA JUUUUUSSS DA JUICEEEEE!!!!!!!!
>leave thread

[Anonymous No.18438342]

>>18433292
I didnt say he’s not, I’d said that books a Marxist reading of history

[Anonymous No.18438354]

>>18438333
Fuck me the "da joooz da juuuuse!" thing is so cringe, tell bunkerchan to stop doing that. It has boomer energy.

[Anonymous No.18438372]

>>18438333
Don't come back retard

[Anonymous No.18438373]

This man is jewish

[Anonymous No.18438454]

>>18431913
Economics has a tendency to present itself as a hard-science, rather than the inherently heuristic (and therefore ideologically-infused) social-science that it actually is. As such Economics, (even from the Heterodox schools, like Austrian, and Marxist economics), have a tendency to view "The Economy" as an entity unto itself, mathematically-modellable in the same way that the cosmos is, but in reality, it varies massively depending on the cultural-backgrounds of the people involved.
Most of the critique of Graeber's work generally, (and this book in particular), is based on the assumption that he's trying to advance his own economic theory, but in reality, he's an anthropologist, giving a valid, anthropological critique of another discipline, and if you read the book that way, as a critique of economic methods and assumptions from an anthropoligcal perspective, then it's an absolutely excellent work. If, however you read it as a straight history book (the latter chapters, presenting a chronology of economic-history, are by far the weakest part of the book, and I'd really only recommend chapters 1-8), then it's crap, but again, that's not what it's intended to be, and shouldn't be read as such.

[Anonymous No.18438471]

>>18438454
In particular, his argument that the notion of "All human behaviour as reciprocal, and of society as a merely reciprocation on a massive-scale", is really just a rationalization of processes which are frequently completely non-reciprocal in nature, and that it would be more accurate to describe human economic relations between individuals to be either 1)Reciprocation-based, 2)Precedent-based, or 3)Altruism-based, depending on the nature of their relationship, with reciprocation being more common among unfamiliar individuals who view themselves as equals, precedent being the main driving force behind heirarchical relationships, and altruism being the main driving force between relationships between family, and close friends (particularly in non-capitalist societies), is genuinely profound and something which I think everybody should grapple with.

[Anonymous No.18439652]

>>18431913
Hudson’s Killing The Host and Against Leviathan is more unsurpassed. Read those instead.

[Anonymous No.18439700]

>>18439652
Why wouldn’t you tell us more about the books if you thought they were good and not just wanting to shit up a thread?

[Anonymous No.18440195]

>>18439700
Because your a grown adult and should check them on your own accord instead of wasting my time spoon feeding some random degenerate airhead on a anime
board.

[Anonymous No.18440217]

>>18439700
it’ an obsessive field trip about nostalgia egalitarian matriarchal pagan society which allegedly existed prior to agriculture and civilizations corrupting influence on the goodness of roussieaunian human nature. It’s anarchist cringe with Primitive characteristics, there I just saved you about two books.

[Anonymous No.18441336]

>>18438354
you know what is even more cringe? telling things are cringe like some fucking junior high schooler

[Anonymous No.18441370]

>>18433400
wow it is almost as if ideologies come before haplogroups. it is almost as if they would behave as any other human group. but that can't be right, right?

[Anonymous No.18441391]

>>18440195
>your