/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18427331]

>Get to have sex with anyone you want
>Use whatever drugs you want
>Free to do whatever you want
So how is this bad?

[Anonymous No.18427338]

>>18427331
I haven't even finished the book, but it's obvious. The experiences you have are inorganic.

[Anonymous No.18427347]

>>18427331
No one ever reads the classics with you and the noble savage is bullied, you bully

[Anonymous No.18427355]

>>18427331

depends on your worldview. if youre an atheist and nihilist, i guess it doesnt seem bad.

[Anonymous No.18427372]

>>18427331
>Free to do whatever you want
???????????

[Anonymous No.18427378]

>>18427331
>I'm a retarded ape who lives for physical self-satisfaction and I'm willing to allow a centralized power control my civil and economic liberties and dominate my entire existence to the point of owning my physical body because at least my pee pee was satisfied

[Anonymous No.18427601]

>>18427331
I remember reading this when i was liberal and not even understanding what was wrong with the society but now it scares the fuck out of me how close we are to this.
manufactured justice, non commital sex everywhere, no body reads or even wants to, everyone drugged up on anti-deppressents. a society perfectly crafted for hedonism and productivity, you’ll own nothing and you’ll be happy

[Anonymous No.18427651]

>>18427331
Even if you accept the central premise that everyone in the Brave New World-society will be happy (which they will be, there is literally no way to be unhappy with soma and you're basically bred to become happy in your role), there is still the question of whether 'happiness' should be the true end goal that we should be striving towards.

If that is the case and happiness is the thing that matters most to you, then yes, Brave New World is an utopia.

[Anonymous No.18427695]

>>18427331

A stagnant society with no innovation because that would challenge/up-root the social norms and customs so ingrained that it would jeopardize the systems existence. People in this thread have called it 'productive' but what productivity? What great goal was going on? What breakthroughs? Creations of art, literatures, music? The complete dismissal of a whole spectrum (and then some) of human emotion and experience in the pursuit of 'perfect' blissful harmony and manufactured happiness for no purpose other than 'harmony' and 'happiness'. All those great works and moments in human history inspired by that perspective so given and delivered by those negative emotions and experiences no longer can be interpreted or even new works in this vein created. In this story were there space stations or attempts to colonise space? Were great athletics feats competed for or new records set - would there have been 'losers' in this world and acknowledged so?

[Anonymous No.18427768]

>>18427338
Hmmm kind of like travelling to post your ass and thinly veiled vagina on social media. #blessed btw.

[Anonymous No.18427775]

>>18427378
Still waiting to hear how's this bad

[Anonymous No.18427788]

>>18427331
How's your sex life so far?

[Anonymous No.18427811]

>>18427331
One of my favourite books.

[Anonymous No.18427814]

>>18427331
>Free to do whatever you want
Not true, btw

[Anonymous No.18427819]

>>18427695
Why is innovation important?

[Anonymous No.18427821]

>>18427331
You can only have sex people within your caste. Also you can’t do whatever you want, they still have jobs in the World State. If you need to take drugs so much then you live in a shitty society.

[Anonymous No.18427891]

>>18427331
Here's why Brave New World is a dystopia:
>A caste system, people are no longer born but instead made for a specific. Most of these castes are retarded too except for the alphas (OP would probably be from one of these retard castes).
>Hollow sexual experiences/lack of connection, the point Huxley made with all the sexual intercourse was that it was a tool used by the state to destroy human connections. If you were ever on the verge of a good hard talk, or a heart to heart connection you'd just fuck.
>Absolute TRASH material, more like our world but worse. But there's no good material, its all sexual junk
>No growing old. The state will literally kill you when you hit your 40's, because growing old will potentially cause you to become introspective.
>You're constantly high on a drug that makes you retarded (state doesn't want human connections.)
>All the good books like Shakespeare, Blood Merdian, everything introspective and worth your time are all locked up.
>There's no longer any scientific process, any actual process is a potential danger to the state.
The best thing you can do in Brave New World is just get caught and sent off to one of the islands with actual intelligent and cultured outcasts. Literally the best places in the world.

[Anonymous No.18427901]

>>18427331
Is this worth reading? I've read 1984 which was a good time

[Anonymous No.18427928]

>>18427901
If you're able to read and genuinely enjoy 1984 beyond its relevance and legacy, you're gonna love BNW, which is a much more engaging and fulfilling read

[Anonymous No.18427945]

>>18427331
thats the point. it isnt bad for any other reason than irrational mysterious romantic "human" reasons. which is the heart and nuance of the book. its what seperates it from propaganda. youd be happy if you were in it, but as an outsider youd never want to be in it

[Anonymous No.18427946]

>>18427331
Can an absolute retard who hasn't touched a book since high school be able to read this?

[Anonymous No.18427969]

>>18427331
of course the numale tranny thinks its paradise. praying each day for a sun burst that wipes out the worlds electrical grid forever

[Anonymous No.18427980]

>>18427928
The world of 1984 was a little much but I liked the way George Orwell wrote.

[Anonymous No.18427993]

>>18427945
>irrational mysterious romantic "human" reasons
What the fuck is wrong with you?

[Anonymous No.18428000]

>>18427331
It's not, if you're an empty gaping maw of purpose.

[Anonymous No.18428024]

>>18427946
yes, this is very entry-level

[Anonymous No.18428036]

>>18428024
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.18428052]

>>18427331
>Free to do whatever you want
This has to be bait. Read the book

[Anonymous No.18428068]

I read both BNW and 1984 in sixth grade. Looking back, Huxley's view of the future was way more accurate
1984: war is exported abroad to keep the state well funded and the population afraid without actually damaging the state's internal territories (US wars in the Middle East)
BNW: Human social connections broken down in favor of easy to control tansient casual sex. Old age is so stigmatized most young people can't even imagine being old
This last point especially terrifies me. So many people my age I know have no conception they will live past 30. I think Huxley's vision of the future is way more accurate than Orwell's

[Anonymous No.18428077]

>>18428068
It kinda depends on where you live.

[Anonymous No.18428084]

>>18427355
*sigh*
Yeah, atheists and nihilists are totally lacking empathy and unable to imagine how other people feel...

[Anonymous No.18428087]

>>18427331
>soma
>is literally a blue pill
based book cover artist

[Anonymous No.18428092]

Leftism doesn't work and ruins everything.

[Anonymous No.18428105]

>>18427901
>Is this worth reading? I've read 1984 which was a good time
Huxley was Orwell's teacher at college, I think

[Anonymous No.18428121]

>>18428092
Yeshua bin Pantera... this comment made me sad.

[Anonymous No.18428144]

>>18427331
It's impossible to discuss BNW anymore on this board after the Pewdiepie invasion. This thread is a testament to why.

[Anonymous No.18428146]

>>18427946
Based retard

[Anonymous No.18428174]

>>18427378
>deeply unhappy man preaching about refined tastes and nobler pursuits on the website for the scum of the earth
Lmao, just accept the dopamine tap my guy. Once you turn it on you'll never look back

[Anonymous No.18428179]

>>18427945
Literal bugman.

[Anonymous No.18428190]

>>18427946
Yeah but the wanting seed is better

[Anonymous No.18428207]

>>18427775
Ok, you're either a shill or a literal soulless NPC.
And I'm not sure what scares me more

[Anonymous No.18428214]

>>18428207
>le meme war

Jesus christ go back lol

[Anonymous No.18428229]

>>18428214
Ok so a shill.
What brings you to /lit/? Was /pol/ to mean for you?

[Anonymous No.18428255]

>>18427695
Community, Identity, Stability. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.18428267]

>>18428255
No. You are a number in an uncaring system, who's image of "stability" is only maintained through the forced consent of the people.
Fucking Pseud, close your browser now.

[Anonymous No.18428284]

>>18428084
Not him, but I don’t think that’s his point. What he is trying to say is that of you have a purely materialistic worldview, a society in which all your material needs and comforts are met is not *that* bad

[Anonymous No.18428319]

i always see this book more in terms of "caste" terms than "pleasure" terms. maybe its because the first chapter is all about castes and it just kind of stuck with me.

[Anonymous No.18428373]

>>18428319
It can be fun to think about it in terms of societies too. On some level we emulate each of their three societies in our daily lives, its just separated for them.

[Anonymous No.18428396]

>>18427331
It's not, it's just some cringe autist going ugh and coping with ideology.

[Anonymous No.18428482]

>>18428284
>you have a purely materialistic worldview
>a society in which all your material needs and comforts are met is not *that* bad
>materialistic

It's funny, because "materialistic" has at least two extremely different meanings, and EVERY-SINGLE-TIME someone tries to make a critique of atheism or communism (they're the same in their mind - sic) they just mix them together.

"IF YOU ARE A MATERIALIST IT MEANS YOU HAVE TWELVE IPHONES!""!"

And they even consider this an argument.
I just lose interest, you know.

[Anonymous No.18428517]

>>18428482
I think you confuse nihilism for communism, understandable.

[Anonymous No.18428548]

>>18428482
how are you a materialist lmao its the most brain dead position ever
you ever heard of numbers??? lmaooo

[Anonymous No.18428564]

>>18428517
Point out EXACTLY where (according to you) I made this mistake.

[Anonymous No.18429009]

>>18427331
>>Get to have sex with anyone you want
how?

[Anonymous No.18429019]

>>18428174
>dopamine
>dopamine
>dopamine
You people have got to stop doing this, that's not how it works.

[Anonymous No.18429053]

>>18428255
It's not community there are no solidified bonds and it has a high degree of overlap with the concepts expanded on in American Psycho, which furthers the point of superficially defined identity, which is the only identity that is respected. Stability is an affair by force rather than one organically derived, and as is effected by the mental subjugation of the populace. Life is made explicitly pointless, but entertaining. At that point, you may as well OD on your choice drug.

[Anonymous No.18429117]

>>18427993
>>18428179
im not saying i think its a utopia. the thought disgusts me. but its "technically" good.

[Anonymous No.18429422]

no gay sex
duh

[Anonymous No.18429461]

>>18427331
It isn't. Only pseuds hate it.

[Anonymous No.18429587]

>>18429117
That's part of the subtext though, from the rational perspective it isn't actually all that bad. For lack of a better term, spiritually it is wretched.

[Anonymous No.18429597]

>>18427946
Yes, middle schoolers can read this book so I think you can manage just fine.

[Anonymous No.18429675]

why are we born to die

[Anonymous No.18429692]

>>18429587
as if most people now are not spiritually wretched now.
How is it worst than the world right now when you're both physically and spiritually wretched?

[Anonymous No.18429719]

>>18427695
>People in this thread have called it 'productive' but what productivity?
It's been a while since I read it, but hadn't they pretty much perfected production / manufacture of all the societies needs?

>What great goal was going on?
The great goal was human happiness

>What breakthroughs?
Why does a society need to have breathroughs?

>Creations of art, literatures, music?
There is all of these things in the book. They are just manufactured by the government.

>some) of human emotion and experience in the pursuit of 'perfect' blissful harmony and manufactured happiness for no purpose other than 'harmony' and 'happiness'.
That's not true. People experience the full emotionally spectrum with the passion infusions and the feelies.

>In this story were there space stations or attempts to colonise space? Were great athletics feats competed for or new records set - would there have been 'losers' in this world and acknowledged so?
Why does any of this matter?

[Anonymous No.18429729]

the only thing i find really objectionable about the society of brave new world is the eugenics based caste system. I already rage against people in higher social classes than i am. if i knew factually that they are better than me bc they were bred to be that way i would legitimately become a terrorist

[Anonymous No.18429730]

>>18429019
Sure it is, there's a hungry little homunculus in your nucleus accumbuens and he's a fiend for the stuff.

[Anonymous No.18429732]

>>18428092
What is leftism?

[Anonymous No.18429738]

>>18429587
litteraly the point i was making

[Anonymous No.18429743]

>>18429675
To live our best lives.
Are you living your best life Anon?

[Anonymous No.18429754]

>>18429743
no

[Anonymous No.18429762]

>>18427601
BNW is often contrasted with 1984 as opposing styles of dystopia but we now have an elegant blending of both. You can take your antidepressants, mood-altering hormones, smoke your weed, hook up with a similarly-medicated tinder hole once a week, turn on the news for your five minutes of hate, or get sent to prison for twenty years if you dare protest the system or defend yourself from its sanctioned criminal underclass. There niggers will slip excrement in your food and guards will shatter your eye socket with their jackboots.

[Anonymous No.18429766]

>>18429754
Then lets get started then

[Anonymous No.18429774]

>>18429766
What are you doing to live your best life, anon? Help me with some ideas. I'm stuck in the biggest longest deepest rut of my life thus far

[Anonymous No.18429776]

>>18427651
The problem with that vision of "utopia" is Soma cannot exist for basic biological reasons. All euphoric drugs lead to dependence and diminishing returns due to the indelible nature of neurons.

The other problem is the civilization never advances as we slowly march towards the death of the Sun, but who cares about that lol.

[Anonymous No.18429791]

>>18429774
I asked for help. And I got it in turn.
I'm building my discipline and investing into the study of literature, philosophy, the sciences, management/investment.
You need to remember, that you yourself are the master of your destiny. However, that doesn't mean you can't and ask for help in reaching it.

[Anonymous No.18430456]

>why is a oppressive, classist caste-system based upon torture and complacency bad?

[Anonymous No.18430690]

>>18429597
>middle schoolers can read this book
Doesn't it have sex and drugs. Why sre middle schoolers reading this?

[Anonymous No.18430789]

>>18427331
>no technological progress
>easily got BTFO by ayys, space rocks or any natural disater that bigger than a fucking earthquake
So how is this bad?

[Anonymous No.18430809]

>>18427331
The worst thing (for me) in this book was the complete lack of individuality.

[Anonymous No.18430819]

>>18430690
letting young people know that sex and drugs exist and educating them about it are good things. Children are not islands of purity to be protected.

[Anonymous No.18430832]

>>18428229
You still didn't answer >>18427775
Which is okay, because there's no answer to that, it's actually a great outlook. You not having the mental capacity to comprehend that makes you the NPC, ironically enough

[Anonymous No.18430836]

>>18427378
Unironically yes.

[Anonymous No.18430864]

>>18429729
>i would legitimately become a terrorist
You actually wouldn't because you'd: 1. Lack the necessary mental faculties and 2. You'd be drugged up on soma which would keep you docile

[Anonymous No.18430868]

>>18427946
No, you need to start with the greek (or the sumarians if you want to do it right).

[Anonymous No.18430931]

>>18427378
Yes. That's 90% of the people. Internet simply allows the remaining 10% to talk among themselves.

[Anonymous No.18430980]

>>18427331
t. soulless bugman

[Anonymous No.18430993]

>>18427378
Oh brave new world! brave new world we live in!

[Anonymous No.18431007]

>>18427331
>Free to do whatever you want
Did you even read the book you Wellsian materialist faggot?

[Anonymous No.18431017]

>>18427331
It's literally not bad
No one said it was bad

[Anonymous No.18431023]

>>18428084

that wasn't my point. my point is that for many nihilists and atheists, their sole purpose is happiness and as long as you aren't hurting someone (subjective, I know) then they're fine with an existence of hedonism. it's easier for someone with faith to fall back on their axiom and say why a life of hedonism is bad while a nihilist can't.

[Anonymous No.18431059]

>>18431007
>Free
It's relative. BLow it out your ass.

[Anonymous No.18431072]

>>18431059
Nothing is relative, you are merely a coward. Every single thing is objective and you take the easy and wrong route out of comfort, and can't even cope with the reality of it.

[Anonymous No.18431073]

>>18427331
sounds boring and meaningless

[Anonymous No.18431075]

>>18427331
>imagine there's a world and it's like bad okay?
no, this world in the book isnt real so im not gonna think about it, ok?

[Anonymous No.18431123]

>>18428174
Lmao, just accept the dopamine tap my guy. Once you turn it on you'll never look back

[Anonymous No.18431334]

>>18428174
It's called working out bro.

[Anonymous No.18431346]

>>18427331
I wont even read the thread but I guess /lit/ will seethe about "muh hedonism" and "you have to be celibate shut-in monkmode like me to understand Plato"

[Anonymous No.18431554]

>>18431072
Objectively there are millions of more worthwhile things you could be doing, so stop posting any time

[Anonymous No.18431830]

>>18431554
Sophism of the highest caliber. Objective is that which is true and real. Factual information, much like it is objective the best thing I have to do for fun right now is post on 4chan. And it is objective that I have fun posting on 4chan. And at least I can face the objective truth that I'm wasting my time.

[Anonymous No.18432021]

>>18431072
But by whose standard are we to judge what is "free". Dont forget the people in BNW were BORN into their social standing. They knew nothing else. They were "free" to fuck, entertain and party like animals, which no one, but a select few, seemed to have a problem with. To us that is horrible, but to them it was completely normal and sometimes preferred (See: Linda). I'd like to remind you that our (the West's) conception of freedom is , arguably, someone else's slavery.

[Anonymous No.18432081]

>>18428068
based infographic plagiarizer

[Anonymous No.18432116]

>>18431830
"Objectively" the characters in BNW might consider themselves free.

[Anonymous No.18432162]

>>18429732
leftism is when intelligent people with low self-esteem use a broadcast of impossible promises as a rope to wrangle the lowest of the low up into a writhing mass, with which they attempt to threaten powerful people whose command they feel entitled to, but have never had the self-worth to acquire.

see: priests promising heaven, communists promising worker ownership, etc

[Anonymous No.18432166]

>>18432116
"might consider themselves" is already subjective

[Anonymous No.18432178]

>>18429743
Im living my best life
I ain’t going back and forth with you niggas

[Anonymous No.18432194]

>>18432021
>our (the West's) conception of freedom is , arguably, someone else's slavery.
That is also Sophism, just the neuroses and paranoias of some being triggered, their individual sensibilities, cognitive biases, internalized traumas and obsessions causing them to have opinions on other people's free capacity to choose to do X, Y or Z. The people in BNW are objectively not free, as every aspect of their lives is controlled by a centralized government, they are made to live in certain castes, behave in certain ways, are not allowed to feel or write or create certain things. The very conflict of the novel is the ideological battle between pleasure and comfort against uncomfortable freedom.

[Anonymous No.18432302]

>>18427891
Sounds fair, would you rather be an "intelectual" amongst the masses or amongst people of your spirit?

[Anonymous No.18432333]

>>18432178
Good

[Anonymous No.18432372]

>>18432302

Did you not pay attention to what was wrong with those masses?
Unless you mean to try to persuade them, its better to leave.

[Anonymous No.18432452]

>>18432372
Right, so it's like the real world except there's no island to escape to.

[Anonymous No.18433856]

Were they Happy? If they were, then it's not bad.

[Anonymous No.18433867]

>>18433856
John Stuart Mill's hands wrote this post.

[Anonymous No.18433873]

>>18427331
You don't even have the freedom to not rut like an animal. That's the point there is NO freedom. You live like cattle and if you resisted they'd kill you. They retard your development to keep you stupid. They even dictate your dreams. Why would you want to live in such a horrible reality where no one is allowed to be anything but a hedonist. It's true slavery disguised as freedom. You aren't "getting" to have sex and do drugs they're actually pushed on you and God help you if you don't want to rut and get high. The main character is a guy coming into this society that wasn't brainwashed and look how he was treated.