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/lit/ - Literature

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18414487 No.18414487 [Reply] [Original]

>gave pic related to the young boyfriend of my sister to redpill him
>his mother told my sister I started a bit hard
>she gave him an easier book of the same author (I think crisis of the modern world)
>he will read both
>his mother is based and redpill him with me
feels good man

Do you redpill with books ?

>> No.18414538

>>18414487
How old is he?

>> No.18414559

>>18414538
16

>> No.18414608

>>18414487
Worth a read? Good entry point for someone unfamiliar with Guenon?

>> No.18414681

>>18414559
wow, nice. At 16 the only thing that I was reading was Tintin, lol.

>> No.18414706

>>18414681
Yes, if he understand that can be huge

>> No.18414729

>>18414608
Guénon is always a bit abrupt. But I think it can be once you understand what Guénon means by "intellectuality" (spirituality) and metaphysics, and some other specificities like the distinction between religions and traditions.

Normally "crisis of the modern world" is considered the entry point.
But at the same time it's easy to start understanding everything with the division between east and west as a support for that.

>> No.18414786

>>18414706
I have nothing to show for my teens except for being a sciencefag and reading tons of pop science shit. Thank God I managed to save my soul from that hell hole. But yeah, I wish him all the best.

>> No.18414908

>>18414786
Thanks
You have nothing to show or they would not see what you show them ?

>> No.18414917
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18414917

Should be reading Bataille, who retroactively refuted your boyfriend's sister's mom.

>> No.18414933

>>18414917
Bataille was just an atheist, his words are discarded from the start

>> No.18414973

>>18414917
>literally who says Guenon bad, Guenon stupid
Looks to me like the author is the one seething at Guenon's intelligence and insight.
>muh Heidnigger
>muh Negel
>muh Niegtzche
All retroactively refuted by based hindu philosophers.

>> No.18414992

>>18414933
Theologians are rampant nihilists and fictionizers.
>>18414973
>things i like are based and things I dislike are cringe
You don't even know you're a Nietzschean. You'd have no home in a guenonist society.

>> No.18415030

>>18414992
>Theologians are rampant nihilists and fictionizers
So you are an atheist too like Bataille ?

>> No.18415045

>>18414973
>Heidnigger
Based

>> No.18415111

>>18414487
So his mother knew about Guenon before?

>> No.18415145

>>18415030
The only tenable theism is pantheism because there is no inherent pseudo-revelationary moralizing social controls associated with it.

>> No.18415226

>>18414917
All Bataille did was say "lol ur wrong" without giving any specifics.

>> No.18415260

>>18415145
>moralizing social controls
hermits are the proof spiritual traditions are not about that

>> No.18415267

>>18415111
Yes, she said she had him in her library.

>> No.18415280

>>18415267
*had books of him

>> No.18415298

>>18415226
Does Guenon anywhere engage with modern philosophy or does he just complain about modernity and cite pre-modern sources? Is there anything to even respond to there philosophically? With the exception of referencing the Greeks, debates in philosophy usually stretch through a century or so of notable thinkers, which makes reading moderns in particular a pain in the ass since there are so many more of them referencing each other. (A reign of quantity perhaps!) But what would there be to say in response to Guenon saying there should be a caste system because traditional writers from caste societies say so? Such a point of view is scarcely part of the discussion French philosophy was having in the 20th century, when the country was a secular republican colonial empire with western Europe's largest communist party.

>> No.18415316

>>18415260
Whatever you mean by spiritual traditions of initiation, esotericism, mysticism, etc. usually had a hostile or cold relationship with traditional western Christian religious hierarchies. Mysticism is anti-clerical for instance is anti-clerical because it involves a personal relationship witha a divine principle—that means no mediation by priestly authorities. And monastics are generally not priests or bishops exercising authority over masses.

>> No.18415318

>>18415267
marry her

>> No.18415399

>>18415318
yeah I'm in love now. What a great women.

>> No.18415427

>>18415316
It's more complicated. They are not against but beyond the clergy, or hierarchy. And their hierarchy, spiritual, hierarchy of sainthood, sometimes (and that is the normal way) inform the external hierarchy, hermits become bishops, saints become preachers. Or sometimes it oppose the external and in these case not spiritual hierarchy.
Anyway they show and keep the real deal of religions : the spiritual, knowing God.
In orthodoxy it's called the "monastic party" but it is not the only occurence of this.

>> No.18415453

>>18415427
So what's happening here is that if you have a particularly charismatic or popular or influential outlier he either has to be incorporated or get made into a heretic, in order to defend the hierarchical religion. And this is a wagering game on each side really, how mystic does the mystic want to come off as to the authorities and what level of devotion to him are those authorities willing to tolerate?

>> No.18415464

>>18414487
>young kid wants to read
>give him the work of a worthless meme author instead of real literature
what a fucking travesty

>> No.18415503

>>18415298
>Does Guenon anywhere engage with modern philosophy or does he just complain about modernity and cite pre-modern sources?
Yes, throughout his works he presents critiques of humanism, utilitarianism, Bergson and both the mathematical and metaphysical views of Leibniz (although he also at times praises Leibniz and says he got some things partially right). He also critiques Kant on a few occasions. There is more as well but I have not read all his books and am just remembering some stuff off the top of my head.

>> No.18415629

>>18415503
>Bergson
Anyone know which book?

>> No.18415655
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18415655

>>18415629
Bergson's ideas are attacked by Guenon briefly in 'East and West' and also in 'Crisis of the Modern World', and then Guenon finally has a longer section refuting Bergson at length in 'The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times'.

You can control-F 'Bergson' in this pdf to skip to it if you want, his name comes up 26 times in the main body of the text.

https://monoskop.org/images/4/48/Gu%C3%A9non_Ren%C3%A9_The_Reign_of_Quantity_and_the_Signs_of_The_Times_2001.pdf

>> No.18415703

>>18414487
When I was a teenager I was a fervent Marxist, I remember making my gf in 10th grade read a bunch of literature with me. We read the Manifesto, Quotations of Mao, "BAsics" by Bob Avakian, some short stuff by Lenin, Trotsky, Engels, and Mandel out loud to each other and discussed it with one another.

My mom is the reason I read and we share books all the time. Recently I've given her stuff by Voegelin, Engels, Gabriel Marcel, and Martin Buber. She's given me Thich Nhat Hanh and some self help stuff.

Same with my brother. Gave him copies of Rumi, Donne, Rimbaud, and Laruelle. He gave me some stuff about Islam, Hinduism, and nutrition science.

Talking to a couple girls rn. Got one of them to read Jean-Luc Marion, and she got me into Christian Bobin. The other one is reading Nikos Kazantzakis with me, and I'm reading Virginia Woolf for her.

It's usually a give and take with these things for me, but yes, I do give people books so they think like me or at least can interface better with my language.

>> No.18415772

>>18415655
The prints of those are indexed so that's another way to pull it up. In East and West Guenon is taking Bergson as a representative of Cartesian intelligence and pragmatism which I suppose is fair. In Crisis he just calls him anti-metaphysical for taking up the flux mantle of Heraclitus and Buddha that is considered a nuisance under the kali yuga. Reign is indeed longest and references mostly focus on Bergson's "profane" view of religion as sociological and psuchological. In any case I don't think Guenon misunderstood Bergson as a representative of modernity, but as I said before the engagement fairly limited in the sense that Guenon just flatly denounces whatever is contemporary as a degradation from the previous attitudes of traditional societies.

>> No.18416882

>>18415703
nice, it makes a lot of exchange.
Also I'm glad for your evolution anon.

>> No.18416888

>>18415703
reading out loud for someone else is very comfy

>> No.18416898

>>18414917
Ironically Guenon didn't even know anything about traditional thought.