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/lit/ - Literature

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18401426 No.18401426 [Reply] [Original]

What is the scriptural basis for this? Is it just that bit where they say he was "in the heart of the earth for three days" or whatever?

Couldn't you just interpret that as really saying "he was dead and buried for three days"?

Isn't the Harrowing just pure fanfiction?

>> No.18401624

1 Peter 3:19-20
'' 4:6

>> No.18401664

>>18401624
So it sounds like the people in Hell at that time got a second chance.

But never again I assume?

>> No.18401841

>>18401426
>ok you guys get a second chance
>but i’m never doing this again because...just because ok? lol
only caths and orthos believe it and it doesn’t make much sense.

>> No.18401888

>dude God is eternal but also there's this other thing that he created that's totally separate from himself that's also eternal and if you go there you're trapped forever
>You'll end up there if you give money to the guy that teaches the exact same thing I do but with a Russian accent
Do Catholics really?

>> No.18401902

>>18401664
>>18401841
You are missing that the point is the coming and accepting Christ. It is not a second chance for people who had no chance of knowing Christ.

>> No.18401920

>>18401888
Hell is and is not created and it is not separate from God. The West vs. East schism is a meme.

>> No.18401948

>>18401902
>>18401920
Mental gymnastics. I have often heard of the suffering that the damned experience is because of a separation from God.

You motherfuckers can't even keep your beliefs straight.

>> No.18401968
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18401968

>>18401920
>hell is not created
>but heaven is created

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

>I'm supposed to believe that God created heaven but did not create hell, and that hell is eternal, meaning it has no beginning or end, and that once your soul is in hell it will exist perpetually and be in pain forever

>> No.18401970

>>18401948
Gnostics solved this problem by stating the demiurge was a false god and the true God sent Christ to earth to guide humanity back toward Him.

>> No.18402002

>>18401948
Yes and separation from Christ is separation from God, remember that thing called Trinity?

>> No.18402017

>>18401968
I said hell is both created and not created, heaven likewise. It all stems from Good and Evil.

>>18401970
But the demiurge follows necessarily from a divine emanation... the effect is always present in the cause.

>> No.18402025

>>18402017
>both created and not created
>emanation
Sorry, didn't realize I was conversing with a neo-brainletist

>> No.18402089

>>18402025
Why are you even mixing up things? Those are replies to two different posts, retard.
First: Both heaven and hell are created things out of what is original to the Divinity - will and constriction for example.
Second: Emanationism refers to the post about gnosticism, I wasn't saying I am a gnostic who believes in what I said, that is a critique. Superb interpretative faculty.

>> No.18402094

>>18402002
There being a trinity isn't monotheism. That's straight up polytheism.

It's just like say, Shiva and his many aspects. You niggers break your own religion.

>Inb4 b-b-but it's actually like this...

>> No.18402120

>>18402094
>le trinity is polytheism
Thank you for telling me you are an irredeemable brainlet in advance, I am genuinely grateful for saving my time.

>> No.18402123

>>18402002
How did people function so well for hundreds of thousands of years prior to the deification of Jesus?

Why would God allow the Roman empire and culture to flourish and grow for so long?

I mean, they were evil, worthless pagans who didn't know the "truth" many couldn't possibly have known it..

>> No.18402132

>>18402089
>it all stems from
>totally different from emanation
It's cool that your God has to get his ideas from a form though, that doesn't undermine his total authority or anything.

>> No.18402144

>>18402120
>N-n-no!! It doesn't c-c-count!

Cope harder. Your theology has holes.

>> No.18402148

>>18402123
>well
lmao, learn the basics of anthropology and ethnology and then study comparative religion

>roman empire
where is it?

>> No.18402156

>>18402148
>Comparative religion

You're going to burn in hell for studying other gods.

>> No.18402157

>>18402132
yes they are different insofar as Will plays a significant part here, dum dum.

>> No.18402164

>>18402148
>roman empire
where is it?

Non-argument. Longest lived empire in human history. Of course nothing lasts forever.

>> No.18402166

>>18402144
the only evidence of holes we have here is the ones in your brain

>>18402156
>other gods
that is why I'm telling you to study, they are not gods per se

>> No.18402172

>>18402166
Ahh, straw man okay.

I win the argument.

>> No.18402176

>>18402157
Okay, how does the "Will" play a significant part in creation that makes your system different from necessary emanation from a first principle?

>> No.18402191

>Divinely inspired scripture created by omnipotent, omnipresent God
>The perfect Word
>Filled to the fucking brim with inconsistency

Cope

>> No.18402198

>>18402176
''How does Will and deliberate action is different from a defined development out of necessity?'', is this what you are asking?

>> No.18402206
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18402206

Thomas Aquinas' view, from ST Tertia Pars Q52

>> No.18402205

holy shit atheistards are being utterly btfo in this thread

>> No.18402217

>>18402205
I would say it's the complete opposite, dipshit.

>> No.18402221

>>18402198
If your terrible writing means what I think it does then yes. Please explain what you mean by will. It seems interesting and I'd love to know how it differs from the usual necessary emanation of things.

>> No.18402222

>>18402206
Why does Aquinas matter? He's not an apostle. He's a literal nobody.

His opinion shouldn't matter as much as it does.

>> No.18402233

Aquinas and his opinions aren't scripture. I don't know why he isn't immediately discounted.

>> No.18402237

>>18402222
I didn't expect OP to care about Aquinas' opinion, just thought it would be helpful because he quotes liberally from Scripture

>> No.18402239

>>18402237
>Liberally

Aaaand there's your problem.

>> No.18402246

>>18402217
Of course you would you're one of them.

>> No.18402250

>>18402221
Was going to write how does... differ and thought How [this] is different from. I'm having dinner and doing other stuff, overlook such a simple mistake.

Will implicates agency, individual action of a ''subject'' while emanationism is a necessary unfolding independent from agency and the subject's directive power.

>> No.18402270

>>18402246
I'm not an atheist. God just sent me to test your faith :^)

>> No.18402272

>>18402250
Yeah that's pretty reasonable actually. Any suggested reading on the topic?

>> No.18402329

>>18402272
I don't think there is any systematic presentation, perhaps Aquinas, Augustine but not sure. However you can find this rather explicitly in christian mysticism, Lurianic Kabbalah, Boehme.

>> No.18402333

>>18401664
According to fanon righteous Jews and god fearers of the many nations were consigned to hell by their own sins. Jesus then relieved their sins.

>> No.18402348
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18402348

>>18401902
>is the coming and accepting Christ
What does this even mean? "Yeah, I'm chill with Jesus, let me in the pearly gates." Reminds me of the story of General Butt Naked. Crazy dude in Africa that brutalized the area with methed up child soldiers, cannibalism rituals, and monstrous amounts of violence. But then he found the lord and goes around preaching the holy word and demanding the families he destroyed to forgive him.

>> No.18402358

>>18402191
"The literal meaning is frequently a cryptic language that more often veils than reveals and that is only meant to furnish clues to truths of a cosmological, metaphysical, and mystical order; the Oriental traditions are unanimous concerning this complex and multidimensional interpretation of sacred texts. According to Meister Eckhart, the Holy Spirit teaches all truth; admittedly, there is a literal meaning that the author had in mind, but as God is the author of Holy Scripture, every true meaning is at the same time a literal meaning; for all that is true comes from the Truth itself, is contained in it, springs from it, and is willed by it. And so with Dante in his *Convivio*: “The Scriptures can be understood, and ought to be explained, principally in four senses. One is called literal. . . . The second is called allegorical. . . . The third sense is called moral. . . . The fourth sense is called anagogical, that is, beyond sense (sovrasenso); and this is when a Scripture is spiritually expounded, which, while true in its literal sense, refers beyond it to the higher things of the eternal Glory, as we may see in that Psalm of the Prophet, where he says that when Israel went out of Egypt Judea became holy and free. Which, although manifestly true according to the letter, is nonetheless true in its spiritual meaning, namely, that the soul, in forsaking its sins, is made holy and free in its powers” (*Trattato Secondo*, I).

As regards Biblical style—setting aside certain variations that are of no importance here—it is important to understand that the sacred or suprahuman character of the text could never be manifested in an absolute way through language, which perforce is human; the divine quality referred to appears rather through the wealth of superposed meanings and in the theurgic power of the text when it is thought and pronounced and written.

Equally important is the fact that the Scriptures are sacred, not because of their subject matter and the way in which it is dealt with, but because of their degree of inspiration, or what amounts to the same, their divine origin; it is this that determines the contents of the book, and not the reverse. The Bible can speak of a multitude of things other than God without being the less sacred for it, whereas other books can deal with God and exalted matters and still not be the divine Word.

The apparent incoherence in certain sacred texts results ultimately from the disproportion between divine Truth and human language: it is as if this language, under the pressure of the Infinite, were shattered into a thousand disparate pieces or as if God had at His disposal no more than a few words to express a thousand truths, thus obliging Him to use all sorts of ellipses and paraphrases."

>> No.18402364

>>18402348
Yeah metanoia is full conversion of consciousness.

>> No.18402464

>>18402348
>that meme
Boomer?

>> No.18402567

>>18401888
the catholic churches recognizes the orthodox church as a valid path to salvation. they even consider some protestant sects to be "close enough" (anglicans chief among them)

>> No.18402583

>>18401970
gnostics are wrong because the belief that material is wicked directly contradicts gen 1:31

>> No.18402600

>>18401968
Because hell is the experience of rejecting God in the eschaton.

>> No.18402622

>>18402233
because the summa is nothing if not rigorously systemic. he clearly presents theses, arguments against, and documents each stage of his reasoning

>> No.18402667
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18402667

>>18402148
>where is it
Declined and fell after converting to Christianity.

>> No.18402678
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18402678

>>18402364
>metanoia
Today I learned a new word. Makes sense, even in a secular view of the world, but I imagine it would be difficult to convince others you have truly been redeemed. I guess that's kinda the point though.

>>18402464
Nah, millennial that's been around since late high school. Demotivationals were pretty fun, but like every template got overdone to death.

>> No.18402760

>>18402667
Kek

>> No.18402785

>>18402667
>Roman Empire was based and redpilled
>fuck christcucks for destroying it!!!

>why would God allow the Roman empire????
>uhhhhh

>> No.18403094

>>18402600
How did Jesus go to an experience of rejecting himself?