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/lit/ - Literature


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18356399 No.18356399 [Reply] [Original]

I don't get it. Why there was nothing published in Germany in 30s? The only novels mentioned are from Remarque, a staunch critic of the era.
Did nazis ban all literature completely during that time?
Or everything is being hidden somewhere?
Seems fishy to me.

>> No.18356405

probably the state trying to consolidate and censor publishing companies had something to do with it

>> No.18356413

>>18356405
Censoring =/= total absense , right?
How come only critical works are mentioned?
Is it post-WWII cleanup job?

>> No.18356468

>>18356399

1) (((Wikipedia))) categories are extremely specific and autistic, having parents and sub-categories, note that that one is only concerned with a very specific intersection set: German (out of all languages/countries), novels (as opposed to all books/literature), year 1936 (as opposed to the entire 1930s, or all time).

2) When you put it that way, having more specific labels starts to make sense,so you can parse things, find commonalities, and differentiate from other things. But if you overcategorize, you get stuff like this. Ironically, Wikipedia is aware of this so they have a guideline against over-categorizing, meant to discourage too much unhelpful autism.

3) On the other hand, it's only as good as the people who edit it. Wartime German lit naturally suggests Mein Kampf (mid-20s, and not a novel). I bet at least one other novel was completed (if not published) in the year, but then it's a question of notability, and, y'know, the war. Other non-fiction narratives were being written: diary entries, newspaper articles, and so forth.

>> No.18356490
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18356490

>>18356399
The jews banned and burned all the books written by germans at the time, thats why you here about book burnings so much, same reason why you here about extermination camps, its a cover for the jewish Bolshevik extermination of christians

>> No.18356502

>>18356468
Not sure I get you, pal.
The categories seem to be pretty clear cut to me.
One of the most advanced country in that time, didn't publish anything, except those who were expilicitly shunned and banned as 'un-german'?
Looks almost as if (((someone))) paints it so the people of germany at the time lost their minds completely and stopped writing, were too afraid to write a book or book publishing was illegal. Neither of those I think are true.
More likely, like many painters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottbegnadeten_list they were quietly removed from public view in after WW2 years, and that's why you don't hear them.
Remember, even roasting someone give them publicity, to destroy them, just remove all evidence of them existing.

>> No.18356555

>>18356502
>More likely, like many painters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottbegnadeten_list they were quietly removed from public view in after WW2 years, and that's why you don't hear them.

Yeah, they were memory holed, but that's a universal thing after the empires keeping such artists in their place fall. Same reason why you don't hear much about the kitschmongers of the soviet union, either, not even in ex-socialist states.

>> No.18356570

>>18356555
And besides that, even if an artists simps for a regime, if they were truly remarkable in some way they'll survive, just much less popular, always preceded by an ostentatious display of distaste with their politics, maybe a jab here or there, a shibboleth of "not liking them for the wrong reasons", like it is usually the case with Breker or Riefenstahl.

>> No.18356576

>>18356399
>fascists
>being creative
??

>> No.18356599

>>18356576
what do you mean?
care to elaborate?
but of course you can't, just shitposting for no reason

>> No.18356602

>>18356599
Most artists naturally lean liberal, not because of muh brainwash or whatever but because people who are creative are open to all sorts of ideas and appreciate freedom (this is psychologically proven) while a fascist is closed-minded and has a strict worldview. There might be exceptions. Also, they don't call them "liberal arts" for nothing.

>> No.18356604

This book was published in 1936 in Germany. The author is Erich Kästner, who wrote the original Parent Trap book and Emil and the Detectives, so he's not a literally who. (((Someone))) must be editing the Wikipedia entry

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doktor_Erich_K%C3%A4stners_Lyrische_Hausapotheke

>> No.18356607

>>18356602
This is a solid 6.4/10, very nice effort desu

>> No.18356611

>>18356570
I believe there was a book of some kind that I've seen, in English, about the novels written during the nazi period, if only I could remember what it was called. It was not unlike the socialist realism shit to the east, just with blut und boden themes.

To clarify, it is not entirely true to say that what is good will always be preserved. Memory of culture is too fickle for that, especially when politics are at play : what victor would not silence the defeated? Maybe the answer is just to not think of the opinions of others too highly when it comes to matters of culture, regardless of whether they reinforce our views or contradict them.

>> No.18356627

>>18356399
Ernst von Salomon wrote his novels in the early 30s and they are quite interesting with decent quality. He himself in his Questionnary (published after the war) however wrote that literature during the Third Reich was pretty much dead. And you can't accuse him of being some jew-loving liberal, he among other things fought against the Soviets in the Baltics in 1919 and helped kill the jewish politician Walter Rathenau.

Of course, not like this thread is going to talk about books from this time, as nobody here actually reads stuff from this time and you just want to banter about conspiracies.

>> No.18356635

>>18356627
>Of course, not like this thread is going to talk about books from this time, as nobody here actually reads stuff from this time and you just want to banter about conspiracies.

You talk like a woman.

>> No.18356644

>>18356635
fuck off ameritard

>> No.18356648

>>18356602
Even if we agree on your point that that literature was uninteresting formulaic and non-innovative, (I am not so sure, actually I believe there must be a HUGE volume of futuristic literature at the time due to insane changes happening, people were hopeful for new bright german future), the question of where that dull boring literature is hidden?
Are you saying most creative people were anti-nazi at the time? Not just some 10% oddball writers who chose to emigrate, but like 90%? Not even hoping for objective data - it has been cleaned up many times.

>> No.18356656

>>18356607
This is the reason why the Nazis' creative output is nothing short of laughable.

>> No.18356657

>>18356644
...and behavior like this is why nobody likes tourists on 4chan.

>> No.18356664

>>18356604

The categories are handled differently in different language equivalents, and the English version is by far the largest and most intensively scrutinized. It's true that Wikipedia has outsized kike governance (most of the so-called extended confirmed articles involve one kike topic or another) but another part of what's going on is that that book doesn't seeeeem ever to have an Anglo article equivalent, and merely has the German version. Yes, there can always be kikery, but I don't think there's a malevolence on this one, rather a current lack of interest, which to your point could still be originally attributed to the nefarious kike plot to eliminate the cultural memory of all 1930s German fiction, or something.

Articles are sometimes deleted, but you can sometimes find traces of the action via public logs and edit histories. Of course anything can be disappeared, but the only stuff I've noticed actually eliminated were mentions of the Trump whistleblower's name, and routine takedowns of images thought to violate copyright.

>> No.18356666

>>18356648
>the question of where that dull boring literature is hidden?

It's just publishers collectively agreeing to not reprinting contentious material. It's not unlike banning, really, just with less fanfare. It would be bad for business, you see, to not play nice.

Hope you like Brecht and Feuchtwanger, though!

>> No.18356673

>>18356627
You're wrong. Plenty of people read Evola, for example. Also, how's that a conspiracy that many pro-nazi writers were being literally banned from publishing from 1945 to like 50s or so, and some even had prison sentences?
If the literature is trash and worthless, I'd rather find it out myself rather than take what (((experts))) tell me beforehand.

>> No.18356699

>>18356664
they could simply run the German article through Google Translate and create a stubs articles, which would put all the books in the correct time category

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_K%C3%A4stner

>> No.18356701

They are simply erasing them from general memory.
In my parent’s town there is a ‘great’ debate about whether a street named after a female poet who fawned over Hitler should be renamed or simply a plaque put up reminding people of the ebil nazis.

Similarly my university library removed ALL books that had stamps with nazi symbols in them because of ‘insensitivity’.
This does not mean ‘Nazi literature’ but any book between 1933-45 that was moved from one library to another or was simply added to the catalogue and therefor was stamped.
There is this beautiful edition of Kants CopR A/B that was removed because it had a stamp with a swastika in it next to 10 other stamps. I wish I had stolen it before it was ‘archived’.

>> No.18356719

>>18356602
Ugh, bro.
Most "creative" "liberal" works are utter incomprehensible trash made just for show. Compare actual artists and "modern art" for example. I'd rather have my trad arts school, thanks.

>> No.18356720

>>18356576
>>18356602
i'm takin' the bait
Poet Ezra Pound is the father of modern poetry and no figure exerted more influence over 20th century literature. An admirer of Benito Mussolini, he conducted worldwide radio broadcasts in support of the Axis.
Filippo Tommaso Marinetti was a key figure in the development of futurism which influenced much of early 20th century art, architecture and culture. He was a friend of Mussolini's.
Conductor Herbert von Karajan is widely regarded as the greatest conductor of all time, inarguably the most successful, and an unrepentant National Socialist until his death.
Louis-Ferdinand Céline wrote one of the great novels of the century in Journey to the End of Night. He advocated for an alliance with Hitler's Germany and supported them.

>> No.18356721

>>18356399
>Wikipedia entry on German novels from the 30 is empty
>that means in the 30s there were no novels written in Germany, not that the Wikipedia entry is lacking

Idiot.

>> No.18356726

>>18356701
The irony of that happening is staggering. Did they BURN those ebil books afterwards?

>> No.18356732

>>18356602
The thing to point out is that the "liberals "of a 100 years ago, who were the creative types would be classified as alt-right white supremacists today, so it's kind of a misnomer to use that term in today's context.

>> No.18356733

>>18356701
Why are you sarcastically adding that the nazis were "ebil"? Are you a nazi perhaps?

>> No.18356735

>>18356602
>every artist and work of art under the sun, from all periods of time must conform to my inconcretely defined, barely 200 year old false dichotomy of left and right.

And you wonder why people just blow you off by calling you a retard.

>> No.18356742

>>18356673
>Plenty of people read Evola, for example
Hows that related? He's Italian, I though we're specifically talking about Germany?
>pro-nazi writers were being literally banned from publishing from 1945 to like 50s or so, and some even had prison sentences?
That is quite true, I am in no way denying that the Allies treated Germany like absolute shit and that there was an agenda against them. Though the nazis did have a very specific ideology, and even if a right-winger (lets say a monarchist or w/e) was against it, he wasnt allowed to publish. An example is again von Salomon, who fell out of grace sometime during the war and not allowed to write anything anymore because he was suspected to be a Strasserite. The Nazis themselves practised censorship in the same way the Allies did later. Of course, the Nazis censoring specific authors didn't stop the Allies from censoring them too later.

Nothing is hindering you from going to b-ok or libgen and reading Wolf among Wolves by Hans Fallada or Sebottendorf or some obscure shit though.

>> No.18356745

>>18356726
Not him but plenty of books were burned after the war. It was seen as okay, though, because the victors said they were evil and bad. You can't argue with that.

>> No.18356759

>>18356721
Try to turn on your brain once in a while. Since you're visiting /lit/ you should be aware of subtexts and connotation thing, right?
The obvious implication is WHY is this wiki so lacking? Edits being removed? Edits not being put there due to fear? Simply not enough actual library and research lit sources IRL to be put into wiki? (most likely). And then the following question - why there are so few sources? (((google))), when you search for nazi era literature spams you with book burning pictures and expelled anti-nazi writers. As if it deliberately pretends to be misunderstanding you.

>> No.18356761

I'm starting to get sick of (you)r whining.

>> No.18356787

>>18356759
Or maybe nothing remarkable was published in germany 1936, as a byproduct of every published book having to go through the ministry of propaganda. Tricky stuff

>> No.18356801

>>18356490
Take your meds

>> No.18356810

>>18356399
There certainly were writers writing during the third Reich, it’s just because they were Nazis we don’t see anything about them.

>> No.18356816

>>18356759
The obvious implication of the question "why was there nothing published in the 30s" is that OP believes there was nothing published in the 30s. As for the rest it's not Google's fault that your knowledge of German literature is so limited that it doesn't spit out non obvious results for your pathetic search terms.

>> No.18356828

>>18356735
Never once said the word left. Only an American equates liberal with "left".

>> No.18356832

>>18356413
when only like manuals on how to be a good Aryan bride were allowed to be published during that time, it's kind of hard to find anything worth commenting on

>> No.18356857

>>18356720
Yes, that's why I said "There might be exceptions". Now compare these bare numbers to the numbers of liberal writers.
>>18356719
Sturgeon's Law

>> No.18356869

>>18356399
If the Nazis were superior übermensch, where are their literary masterpieces?

>> No.18356920

>>18356816
Yup, plausible deniability.
Pretend to be dumb when beneficial.
If you search for degenerate shit like [is my son a daughter now], you get gazillions of (((trans-friendly safe spaces and services))).
On the other hand,
[nuke israel into the sun] google: here some cool sunshine views from israel, also here is some talks about israel nuclear program, happy now?

>> No.18356929

>>18356502
>The categories seem to be pretty clear cut to me.
That doesn't mean that they won't be managed badly and inconsistently by the basement dweller editors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_literature#Nazi_Germany
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschsprachige_Literatur#Nationalsozialismus_und_Exilliteratur
If you want a serious look at the literature, get a historical overview of German lit and see how it deals with the era. A scholar is more relevant than monolingual Wikipedians.

https://book4you.org/book/1208267/9f56b5
Subchapter "Literature and Nazism" starts on pp.383

>> No.18356945

>>18356857
>"There might be exceptions".
You mean all of the greatest poets of the 20th century and more?
Ezra Pound
T.S. Eliot
Wyndham Lewis
Kipling
Mishima
Céline
Junger
Hamsun
Kipling
Yeats
D.H. Lawrence
etc etc
>Now compare these bare numbers to the numbers of liberal writers
What do leftoids have after WWII? Sartre? Arthur Miller? Lmao

>> No.18356947

>>18356857
Liberalism is much older than fascism. My list is by no means exhaustive. Taking into account the scope of the achievements of those listed you can't make the claim that fascists are uncreative or that liberals are more creative. No liberal can claim to have almost single-handedly invented modern poetry or modern art but fascists can.

>> No.18356960
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18356960

>>18356869
Fuck do you mean, mein kampf is still here

>> No.18357006

>>18356945
bro you forgot Kipling

>> No.18357009

The greatest authors in germany literally fled in terror from the country lest they be executed, why do you think such a regime would be condusive towards good or even decent literature?
>There aren't any great works published under my authoritarian deathcult-regime? The jews must be censoring it all!!!
Nazifags are so delusional. Just end your "lives"

>> No.18357029

>>18356602
Do you say this to people in real life?

>> No.18357033

>>18357006
He's on there, but it's not intended to be exhaustive. My point is that the meme of artists being natural leftists needs to die. Leftists have had 70+ years of freedom to publish whatever they want without competition from "fascists", and yet they still haven't produced anything near the caliber of what rightist artists did during the interwar period. It's honestly embarrassing

>> No.18357036

>>18357009
*jewish subversive authors fled the country

>> No.18357039

>>18356960
Come on, that's a low blow. It isn't true literature, it isn't fair to compare propaganda piece to art.
OP here, I am not specifically searching for nazi propaganda literature, just books characteristic of the time. I find it hard to believe it was all 100% controlled by partei.
After all. even in USSR were plenty of books written under the table, skeptical of communism but not outright critical (those still were unpublished until like late 80s shortly before ussr collapse). The will to create is large. And most socialist realism is available but unpopular: it's just laughable, when not pushed unto you by commie boys and you have no choice but to praise it or else deemed a bourgeoisie spy or something.

>> No.18357051

>>18357039
>I am not specifically searching for nazi propaganda literature, just books characteristic of the time.
They literally did control 100% of publishing and only allowed certain topics to be discussed and of course it had to be favorable towards nazis.
Dumbass.

>> No.18357054

>>18357039
then see my post >>18356929
They talk both of the state-supported art and that which was critical of the regime.
>most socialist realism is available
Is it? The Russian texts surely are, but I don't think that many of them are translated into English?

>> No.18357060
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18357060

>>18356399
idk dude

>> No.18357064

>>18356945
>What do leftoids have after WWII?
Pretty much every relevant writer after WWII is a liberal.

>> No.18357069

>>18357054
You're right, they most likely aren't translated into English. Reading about the day to day life of a collective farm, not too exciting for an average modern reader, I guess.

>> No.18357089

>>18356947
>modern poetry
You mention that like that's a good thing.

>> No.18357092

>>18357064
This. JK Rowling, George R Martin, Rupi Kaur, and all the rest

>> No.18357096

>>18356945
Kipling was a fascist?

>> No.18357100

>>18357064
Which post-WWII writers are comparable to anyone on that list?
>>18357096
The list includes both conservatives and fascists

>> No.18357113

>>18357089
The point is the creativity of fascists. Liberals have done worse.

>> No.18357144

>>18357033
>He's on there
nah man, i don't see him

>> No.18357157

You see, that's the problem with censorship. It's self-defeating. If something's shit, you should show it. If you hide it, I'll be thinking you're hiding gold instead.
But of course the overlords want a controlled discourse field, with clear targets on 'unthinkable' topics, 'besmirched' authors, and 'disgraced' ideas. And all of that only makes their points disingenuous.

>> No.18357261

>>18356399
>>18356502
There's plenty of authors listed on that wiki page
Gerhart Hauptmann
Hans Carossa
Hanns Johst
Erwin Guido Kolbenheyer
Agnes Miegel
Ina Seidel
Hans Friedrich Blunck
Bruno Brehm
Hermann Burte
Friedrich Griese
Emil Strauß
Josef Weinheber
Heinrich Zillich
Gustav Frenssen
Hans Grimm
Max Halbe
Heinrich Lilienfein
Börries Freiherr von Münchhausen
Wilhelm Schäfer
Wilhelm von Scholz
Lulu von Strauss und Torney
Helene Voigt-Diederichs
As far as I can tell none of their works written during the Nazi period have been translated into English

>> No.18357266

typical example of indiscriminate bannings of authors.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Ahlers
Like if the victors decided to go over the top.
I mean, there is a difference between outright propaganda, sympathy, mere association and just inspiration. But no! Burn all down.

>> No.18357272

>>18356399
Because writing books is a characteristics of bugmen society in decay, fascist were full of life and vitality so they had no use for such friviolities

>> No.18357306

>>18357272
>this much cope for mediocrity

>> No.18357308

>>18357266
>I mean, there is a difference between outright propaganda, sympathy, mere association and just inspiration
OK, and this guy was a local political leader for the nazi party whats your point
go read his books if you want its not illegal

>> No.18357337

>>18357272
And again idiotic over-simplification of major european culture.
Also bugmen are incapable of writing anything other than autistic twatter nonsense.
It is sad that is got severely damaged, almost destroyed by vengeful allies, preventively castrating the intellect, free thinking and will and instilling a deeply rooted cult of guilt just because they were scared shitless and angry at the possibility of predictable counter movement. De-nazification is somewhat poorly documented, I mean what exactly was purged? You're risking getting a crime slapped onto you just for trying to investigate.

>> No.18357339
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18357339

>>18357306
Reduce onions exposure from your diet, start working out, stop watching pornography, and maybe in time you will understand what it means to Live like they did, even if only for short while

>> No.18357353

>>18357339
Any culture that doesn't produce art is subhuman. No other way around it. The Nazis weren't body builders. They were scrawny and cigarette-smoking.

>> No.18357372
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18357372

>>18357337
>the intellect, free thinking and will
yes the intellectual free thinking nazis

>> No.18357393
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18357393

>/pol/tard pretends to raise an innocuous topic when he really just wanted to ask leading-questions to shill his nutjob ideology

>> No.18357392

Nazis
>Notoriously burned books
>Banned anything that didn't tow the party line
>Only allowed certain viewpoints and topics to be written about
>Imprisoned and executed artists and authors
>"This is fine, just free thinking intellectuals exhuming jewish influence"

Rest of the world
>Does not actively promote nazi propaganda authors
>"THIS IS LITERALLY A CULTURAL GENOCIDE, WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF? LET THE FREE MARKET OF IDEAS DECIDE"
The delusions are off the chart

>> No.18357398

>>18357353
Art isnt found in ink scribbles on paper, its found in the way you live and even more importantly, in the way you die. Blood was their paint and battlefield their canvas. The only was to glimpse higher Truth is trough glory of frantic combat, brought to its most brutal extreme

>> No.18357408

>>18357398
This is Jewish postmodernism.

>> No.18357415

>>18356602
Yes, I'm sure all the artists prior to the industrial revolution were all liberals, and did not work in a traditional form at all. I'm sure all the ancient artists whose great art we admire were all liberals. What a retarded take.

>> No.18357429

>>18357415
They certainly weren't fascists. And I said most artists, not "all". Also, I didn't mean liberal like in some faggot American way.

>> No.18357465

>>18356920
You have mental problems. Lie down and don't talk to anyone.

>> No.18357483

>>18357429
>They certainly weren't fascists.
No because fascism is a distinctly modern invention, genius. However fascism and ancient artists had in common that they tried to express traditional ideas of their people/culture through art (although you could argue that the fascists failed miserably).
>And I said most artists, not "all". Also, I didn't mean liberal like in some faggot American way.
Most, all, no difference. No ancient artists were liberal, they worked in a long line of restricted tradition. And yes I meant liberal in the common sense.

>> No.18357493

>>18356399
There aren't many novels written during that time that have been translated and made available to an English-speaking audience. Literature under the Third Reich is therefore a niche subject of interest only to specialists in that particular topic. I suspect that there are few such specialists around, that there are even fewer - perhaps none - on Wikipedia, and that even those who are in possession of this knowledge have little interest in sharing it.
In any case, if you're interested in learning anything about the Third Reich, you'll have to read works by specialists published in the university presses. I assure you that they are far better than anything you have read until now in all respects.

>> No.18357494

>>18357429
They totally were almost completely, just the degrading moniker label 'nazi' or 'fash' hasn't been invented yet. Tribalism, small-scale nationalism, us vs them existed since humanity and power and rulers existed. Quit your fairy tale commie created 'spartans were socialist' bullshit.
>>18357353
With the technology and knowledge of the time, they were totally fit. Yeah, not enough protein supplements and abundant fastfood that could make modern meathead possible, didn't exist yet in 20s and 30s, can you imagine that? Emphasis on work and sport was ripe. Actually both in fascist and socialist places (except socialist always looked like a shoddy copycat job).

>> No.18357638

>>18357372
Why is this SJW wearing PEPE?
Is it because you can't MEME?
Totally disingenuous.
Also, you're deliberately mixing up together the spirit of literature and administration. E.g. what to write about, and how it is being published. Just because subversive and openly hostile work was banned, doesn't mean the official literature by itself was not free thinking, brave and futuristic. I bet there were hundreds of short stories about conquering new lands and bright settlers future, bringing civilization to dark corners of the earth. Now all of it smeared as colonization lit or whatever.

>> No.18357665

>>18357638
>Why is this SJW wearing PEPE?
>Is it because you can't MEME?
Please be bait

>> No.18358611

>>18356602
This is true in cinema, video games, and all other mediums of creative expression. Rightoids just can't into art.

>> No.18358818

>>18358611
>the right is uncapable of creating & developing culture
TFW when literally all leftie commie creations are literally stolen from traditional culture, with purple hair/hairy gorilla fighter t-shirt/hammer & sickness logo/insane progressive scribbles added on top

>> No.18358842

>>18357064
Can anyone even compare?
Can any liberal religion historian even compare to what Mircea Eliade has done for example?

>> No.18358846

>>18358611
Name a left-wing building.

>> No.18358852

>>18356405
Natsocs didn’t burn books at random; they burnt shit tier stuff about communism and gender theory, all coming from one group of people.
There were lots of books written and printed during Hitler’s era, most of them destroyed by allies. Burgers even destroyed books about training, they didn’t give a shit.

>> No.18358862
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18358862

>Fascists can't into art

>> No.18358873
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18358873

>Fascists aren't creative

>> No.18358877
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18358877

>Liberal art is superior

>> No.18358893

>>18356399
>Or everything is being hidden somewhere?
Yep. Most of those books are banned. De-Nazification included the destruction of tons of art from literature, music, to statues and paintings.

>> No.18358978

The Nazis banned about 4000 books during their reign. The Soviets alone banned 35000 books in Germany after the war.

>> No.18359355

>>18358978
Yet it is Kremlinboy Mr. Poo-poo-tin who babbling on about western powers "rewriting history".
Yup, cause commie lords are so honest straight. Can't disprove a book? Ban it, comrade!