/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18330855]

>nothing exists
>no essential self
>life is suffering
>b-but we’re not nihilists!

Why are Buddhists so inconsistent and intellectually dishonest?

[Anonymous No.18330863]

filtered

[Anonymous No.18330878]

>>18330855
Because none of those translate to "life/existence has no inherent or actual meaning."

[Anonymous No.18330894]

>nothing exists
Stuff exists
>no essential self
It's just there is nothing in a person alone that makes it a person, nothing in a dog that makes it a dog. There is no essence, doesn't mean it isn't there, it is there in relation to everything else, dependent origination.
>life is suffering
Life is Dukkha, dissatisfaction, it's never enough, never just stays the same, no pleasure is forever but no suffering is forever either, it's not saying life is agony.
>b-but we’re not nihilists!
Nihilism is a western thing, just doesn't quite fit there, Buddhism has a path, a direction and a goal.

[Anonymous No.18330895]

>>18330878
How can meaning even exist for a suffering, soulless agent living in a non-existent world?

[Anonymous No.18330915]

>>18330878
Meaning can only exists as for a subject. Buddhism does not believe in any real subject, only illusionary reifications that are ultimately all without substance, so there can be no real meaning.

[Anonymous No.18330923]

Nihilism = lack of meaning. Meaning requires a subject.

Buddhism does not believe in the subject as such. Read the heart sutra.

[Anonymous No.18330941]

>>18330923
>Buddhist don’t believe in a self, which is required for meaning. Therefore, it isn’t nihilistic.

Huh?

[Anonymous No.18330943]

>look mom I read wikipedia again and formed an opinion on Indian metaphysics

[Anonymous No.18330968]

>>18330941
What's your confusion?

[Anonymous No.18331017]

>>18330968
Anything lacking meaning is inherently meaningless, no?

[Anonymous No.18331057]

>>18330941
>which is required for meaning
This is not the case, and it's incredibly nihilistic to argue that the only things that exist are things that have Selves.

[Anonymous No.18331081]

>>18331057
>and it's incredibly nihilistic to argue that the only things that exist are things that have Selves.
Not that poster but I think what he was implying is that meaning only exists for a knowing subject that it possesses meaning for, and that as the self or Self is the knower to which people refer as I and as subject, if there is no subject for whom things have meaning then how can there be meaning.

[Anonymous No.18331120]

>>18330855
>Why are Buddhists so inconsistent and intellectually dishonest?
The Puranas are unironically right when they say that Buddhism was just a trick by Lord Vishnu to disarm and incapacitate some demons, that it survives into the modern age and has a relatively large following is because we are in the Kali Yuga where there are many hylics

[Anonymous No.18331243]

>>18330855
>making buddhists face the incoherence of their beliefs
Stupid move, anon. The only thing you're going to get is 250+ replies of "western buddhists" performing impressive mental gymnastics and dodging all of your questions with their trademark self-righteous smugness.
Once you realize Buddhism is garbage, just move on to something actually meaningful. Don't waste your time arguing with larpers and nihilists.

[Anonymous No.18331258]

>>18330855
Entry level take on Buddhism.
No-self is not correct either, but is a pallative to the typical self-obsessed mindset.
Buddhism teaches that self and no-self are both ultimately illusions that only capture part of the truth, which can only be grasped directly and cannot be put into words.

[Anonymous No.18331298]

>>18331243
>oh me pfft no *I'm* not a nihilist I just believe that ____ is eternally real even though that would cause reality to stop functioning

[Anonymous No.18331303]

>>18331081
But then you're just reinforcing subject-object duality, which again is just a deeply nihilistic doctrine.

[Anonymous No.18331307]

>>18331298
>performing impressive mental gymnastics and dodging all of your questions with their trademark self-righteous smugness.
kek
Miss me with that shit, faggot

[Anonymous No.18331310]

>>18331298
And here we have yet another proof that buddhists are simply crypto-physicalists and incapable of any kind of abstract thought. Embarrassing!

[Anonymous No.18331317]

>>18331307
There is not one mote of difference between mental gymnastics and intellectual honesty. Please tell me more about your ultimate reality that cannot be shown to be nihilism

[Anonymous No.18331324]

>>18331310
>abstraction
Yeah you mean nihilism right?

[Anonymous No.18331333]

>>18331317
Not a hinduist, I don't care about needlessly complex and autistic eastern metaphysics. Vedanta and buddhism both belong in the trash as far as I'm concerned.
>>18331324
>get called a nihilist
>"I'll call everyone and everything nihilism even if it makes zero sense, that'll show them"
Pathetic brainlet.

[Anonymous No.18331352]

>>18331310
But you're the one who believes that the physical is all that exists and that you're just a computer. How can you call someone else a Physicalist when you're even more of a materialist than Sam Harris?

[Anonymous No.18331354]

>>18331333
If you can't take the heat get out of the metakitchen

[Anonymous No.18331365]

>>18331333
>believes that nothing exists
>gets upset when people point out that he is thus be definition a nihilist
Pathetic brainlet.

[Anonymous No.18331375]

>>18331354
>midwit buddhist is also a meme "skeptic"
Color me surprised.
>>18331365
>>believes that nothing exists
Who are you quoting, retard?
Fuck, why am I always right >>18331243
I'll leave it at that and let you braindead orientalist larpers jack yourselves off, anyone with two neurons to rub together will quickly realize buddhism is an absolute scam.

[Anonymous No.18331395]

>>18331375
>skeptics are so dum cuz knowledge that there is no knowledge possible is knowledge
Look at the brilliant metaphysician resorting to skepticism to defend himself... from skepticism

[Anonymous No.18331406]

>>18331352
>you're the one who believes that the physical is all that exists
Nope, I'm a subjective idealist and you are a fucking retard for managing to infer I could ever be a physicalist from my posts. I'll fuck off for real now, I can feel my considerable IQ dropping every second I keep engaging with you "people". Go on and kill your soul because the world hurts and you're too weak to face it.

[Anonymous No.18331451]

>>18330894
>>nothing exists
>Stuff exists
Spotted the brainlet

[Anonymous No.18331465]

Nirvana is not a zero-point of consciousness, but an expansion of consciousness that obliterates the gravity of the Phenomenal. Cessation of desire =/= annihilation of the soul.

[Anonymous No.18331873]

>>18331375
Pathetic brainlet.

[Anonymous No.18332496]

>>18330855
1.) nothing and something are not so different. All things are interdependent.
2.) The Dalai Lama has said that buddhism is similar to panpsychism.
3.) Life has some suffering, it isn't entirely suffering
4.) Nihilism is garbage. No meaning is still meaning; many nihilists can't seem to get that. Buddhism is not nihilism, you just don't understand it yet.

I'm not completely Buddhist, I prefer the path of Daoism more, but that being said I believe that if you grasp the ideas of Advaita Vedanta then understanding Buddhism will be easier. They're very very similar (they have some key difference, but from my understanding they have the same end goal).

[Anonymous No.18332775]

>nothing exists
Only some sects of Mahayana claim this. In the Pali Canon the Buddha refraimed from this kind of metaphysical speculation about what exists at a fundamental level.
>no essential self
From a Buddhist perspective both the view of "I have an (eternal) Self" or "There is no Self" are mistaken, to become enlightened you need to shed all views of "self".
>life is suffering
A more accurate translation of the first noble truth is that everything in Samsara (phenomenal existence) is unsatisfactory since even pleasant experiences are short lived and create suffering when we can't experience them again.
>b-but we’re not nihilists!
Yes, Buddhist believe in Nibbana/Nirvana (third noble truth) which is the deathless state outside of Samsara that can be attained by practicing the Buddha's teachings, think of it as the Noumenon in Kant's epistemology that can't be described by mind made concepts.

Also, Buddhists believe in Karma and Rebirth which states that our actions in this life will influence results we experience in the remainder of this life and the lives to come.