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/lit/ - Literature

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18289423 No.18289423 [Reply] [Original]

How does one "start with the Greeks" without losing their Christian faith?

>> No.18289430

>>18289423
then with start with the Bible. start with the greeks is not meant to be taken completely seriously

>> No.18289437

>>18289423
That's why you start with the Greeks. Christian faith is an embarrassment in a man of letters.

>> No.18289453
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18289453

>>18289423
Start with the collected works of Plato. Why would you be afraid of losing your Christian faith? Christian faith comes from divine revelation, if you have it then nothing a philosopher says can shake it

>> No.18289466

>>18289423
you have to have a very weak faith to lose it by reading the ancients

>> No.18289481

Read the Benjamin Jowett translation that replaces the words "Zeus" and "gods" with "God"

>> No.18289488
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18289488

>>18289437
>Christian faith is an embarassment in a man of letters
What?!?!
You mean, the fact that we...
...worship a homeless dude...
...who was rejected by his own people...
...convicted of heresy...
...mocked, spat upon, humiliated...
...and put to die ignominiously on a cross,
is embarrassing?! What a revelation!!!

"You will be hated by everyone because of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved." (Matthew 10:22)

>> No.18289523
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18289523

>>18289481
This is retarded.

>>18289423
Obvious troll is obvious, but just on the 0.01% chance you're sincere, go read Acts 17:

'Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you."' (Acts 17:22-23)

>> No.18290357

>>18289423


IF YOU ARE AFRAID TO LOSE YOUR «FAITH» DUE TO READING PHILOSOPHY WRITTEN BY PAGANS YOU ACTUALLY HAVE NO FAITH AT ALL, NOR REASON TO SUBSTANTIATE YOUR FAITH, FOR THAT MATTER.

REGARDLESS OF FAITH: IT IS PHILOSOPHY; PHILOSOPHY DEALS WITH REALITY, CONCEPTS, AND IDEAS, WHICH ARE UNIVERSAL.

>> No.18290372

>>18289423
Stupid thread. Why would reading about ancient Greece make you no longer Christian? Are you going to start going into the woods dressed in a toga and try to ass fuck deer? No, so fuck off idiot and just read them.

>> No.18290411

>>18289423
By pretending not to lose your Christian faith and pretending not to know around your "fellow" Christians

>> No.18290434
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18290434

>>18289423
I see what you mean.
By reading Plato and Aristotle one can quickly get to the conclusion that the Western Christianity is basically the Greeks with a cross on top.
Orthodox Christianity doesn't have this problem because it wasn't influenced by Augustine or Aquinas.

>> No.18290446

>>18289423
I dunno. How did Sts. Thomas Aquinas and Augustine do it?

>> No.18290479

>>18289423
Read St Thomas Aquinas' commentary on Aristotle's Metaphysics alongside it.

>> No.18290485

>>18290434
>Problem
Sounds more like a feature.

>> No.18290493

>>18289437
Is that why most great writers were Christians?

>> No.18290497

>>18289423
You keep the faith by seeking Jewish cocks to fellate
Don't blame me that's the rule
Swear on a stack of bibles

>> No.18290508
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18290508

>>18289423
>How do I enlighten myself and also continue to believe in my semitic fairytales
You're supposed to let go of your faith.

>> No.18290549

>>18289423
That was the point. Go back.

>>18289453
No. Plato is one of the least important Greeks to get to

>> No.18290552

>>18289423
By following up with David Hume

>> No.18290561

>>18290493
such as whom

>> No.18290563
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18290563

>>18290549
>Plato
>Least important
State your case

>> No.18290594
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18290594

>>18289453
>>18289423
>>18290508

the platonic model is not antithetic to christianity. au contraire.

>>18290485
exactly

>> No.18290611

>>18290561
Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Cervantes, Honoré de Balzac, Dostoevsky, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and the list goes on.

>> No.18290677

>>18290611
>the list goes on
please continue then

>> No.18290814

>>18290677
Dante, Tolstoy, Herman Melville, Lope de Vega, Fernando Pessoa. Joyce went to mass frequently despite his views, Wilde converted before his death and Borges died in the presence of a priest.

>> No.18290834

>>18290594
Explain Timaeus then. As I see it, god is relegated to a mere craftsman, which contradicts the christian perception of god as basically synonymous with the good itself.

>> No.18290842

That's only 15 people. Definitely not "most" of great writers.

>> No.18290880

>>18289423
If you're retarded enough to be religious you belong on /pol/ and not /lit/

>> No.18290897
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18290897

>>18290880

>> No.18290920

>>18289423
>“Some memories are especially painful, and some events of the distant past have left deep wounds in the minds and hearts of people to this day. I am thinking of the disastrous sack of the imperial city of Constantinople, which was for so long the bastion of Christianity in the East. It is tragic that the assailants, who had set out to secure free access for Christians to the Holy Land, turned against their own brothers in the faith. The fact that they were Latin Christians fills Catholics with deep regret… To God alone belongs judgment, and therefore we entrust the heavy burden of the past to his endless mercy, imploring him to heal the wounds, which still cause suffering to the spirit of the Greek people.” (Pope John Paul II)

To become a true christian, first you must renounce christianty, start with the greeks, only then will you be ready to accept christ.

>> No.18291263

>>18290842
>Give me examples
>Gives examples
>NOOO YOU HAVE TO LIST LITERAL HUNDREDS OF AUTHORS
cope
Also nice job not directly replying to my post like a cowardly faggot.

>> No.18291273

I do not have a clear answer to that question.

I don't believe that you have to subscribe to every single point that the Apostle Paul made in his letters to the Church.

And I don't think that we have to have to agree with every single point that those who came before us made.

But I do think we should look at them, consider them, and learn from them.

If you are going to discuss the "Gospel of Mark" or the "Gospel of Matthew" make sure you know the meaning of what the text actually means.

>> No.18291277

>>18289423
Christianity is the absolute worst thing that ever happened to Europe and the only reason we eventual rose above the Chinese in terms of wealth, power and influence is thanks to the old works of the great Greco-Roman thinkers. Without them China would have ruled the modern world.

>> No.18291300

>>18290814
yes christianity is still an embarrassment. the religion itself is an abomination and you can’t hide

>> No.18291302

>>18291277
>Christianity is the absolute worst thing that ever happened to Europe

Christianity is Europe.

>> No.18291309

>>18291302
No, Europe is Greco-Roman thought, christianity is simply Judaism for goys.

>> No.18291313

>>18291302
As Europe is Christianity.

For over 1000 years, more so than anything else. More than the greeks, more than the nordic mythology. There is no way to cope this fact.

>> No.18291315

>>18291309
It doesn’t work that way and actually it doesn’t work that way anywhere. If you want to do real damage to the culture you can’t take it from one group and insist it’s theirs; if you’re trying to push ideas, you should create as much space for people to say what they want as possible, but that also means not having a one-size-fits-all ideology.

>> No.18291316

>>18289423
By realizing that the Greeks were the prophets of Reason to win over the pagans in God’s master plan

>> No.18291319

>>18289423
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomism

>> No.18291325

>>18291309
Greco-Roman thought never went away, it was incorporated into Christian thought and theology.

>> No.18291328

>>18289423
Read Edward Feser.

>> No.18291329

>>18291309
Cristianity is Greco-Roman thought, as Greco-Roman thought is Christianity, you won't escape your upbringing, as your upbringing can't escape it's genealogy.

Nietzsche was fighting himselve.

>> No.18291334

>>18291329
Christianity is from the middle east, the Roman's later adopted it as a state religion which was a massive mistake. The only reason it didn't cause too much damage was that it was filtered through Greco-Roman thought that eventually left us to the enlightenment.

>> No.18291338

>>18291315
Any form of diversion from christianity is in itself a diversion from core european roots and values.

I think the last 100 years have proven this beyond a reasonable doubt.

>> No.18291349

>>18291338
Hinduism has more in common with European roots and values than Judaism-lite.

>> No.18291359

>>18291334
>Christianity is from the middle east,
Already false.
>Roman's later adopted it as a state religion which was a massive mistake
Christianity is roman, that much should be obvious. (If you actually read)
>The only reason it didn't cause too much damage
Do you consider 1500 years of european history damage?
>eventually left us to the enlightenment.
Which is a christian school of thought, which is obvious.

The atheistic schools of enlightment, so to say the selfaware rejection of european values, is in itself the downfall of europe.

>> No.18291363

>>18289423
The Greeks confirmed my faith.

Have you ever met a Christian who disliked Socrates?

>> No.18291364

>>18291349
Ok so you are an antisemite, I don't discuss with ideologists.

>> No.18291368

>>18291338
I'm sorry, but if you're going to be so narrow minded as to believe that Christianity is the root of everything then you need to get out more...

>> No.18291370

>>18289523
Wow that picture is incredibly cringe.

>reducing God to a cliche "helping hand"

>> No.18291372

>>18291359
This is what is generally referred to as cope.

>> No.18291373

>>18289423
Are you completely unable to read something and not be totally convinced by it or something?

>> No.18291379

>>18291370
That's American evangelicals for you.

>> No.18291382

>>18291359
Before the Enlightenment Europe was just another culture among others. Western culture that rules now and is the strongest in human history is purely a product of the Enlightenment.

>> No.18291383

>>18290549
Plato is literally the most important Greek, he's the key guy when it comes to understanding western philosophy.
Socrates is a character of his.

>> No.18291386

>>18291368
I have read a lot in my 30 years of age. But everything european, even the folklore of the most remote of the german provinces is in it's core christian or a christian manipulation of old tales.

These manipulation are more than 1000 years old and as such, entirely european.
That is like saying the potato is not a european dish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Christian_Alpine_traditions

>> No.18291393

>>18291379
Even though I dislike america in it's entirety, this image is powerful.

>> No.18291400

>>18291382
That is just not true. We need to define the term enlightment much more clearly.

>> No.18291419

>>18289423
Ending with soren kierkegaard could do it

>> No.18291432

>>18289423
Learn what exegesis is
>>18289430
Yes it is

>> No.18291441

>>18289488
All of that is irrelevant
>>18290493
It's because they lived before electricity

>> No.18291458

>>18289423
not my problem you're a shitty christian.

>> No.18291500

>>18291300
Hahahah, nah man, you tried to trap him by getting him to list great writers who were Christian, he did. You asked for more, he gave more. Hahaha its you whos embarrassing. Hilarious. Seethe more.

>> No.18291506

>>18291500
i’m a different anon, it’s an abomination and i didn’t ask for that

>> No.18291511

>>18291506
Hahahah SEETHE MORE fucking embarrassing man. Hahahahah

>> No.18291514

>>18291386
The oldest forms of manipulation (There are other more modern ones as well, but the oldest are at least a thousand years old) have been in use by the Catholic Church.

>> No.18291517

>>18290880
absolutely epic, so brave

>> No.18291520
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18291520

>>18291511
keep praying i’m sure it’ll make you straight eventually

>> No.18291539

>>18291514
This is as true as it is false.

>> No.18291644
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18291644

>>18289423
Start with the Greeks, then move to the supressed books of the Bible to find the true Christian faith friendo.

>> No.18291663
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18291663

>>18291539
Part of the problem of judging the Catholic Church as evil is that it has done so much good throughout its long history.

This idea of a few “bad” guys doing evil is a common misunderstanding of historical events. The United States Army was once known as “good” guys but ended up as bad guys. This is because they were created to be good, to fight a “good war”, and to protect innocent people from an evil enemy, but they ended up defending a system which was corrupt...

>> No.18291867
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18291867

>>18291328
he’s cool

>> No.18291995

>>18289430
The Bible is in Greek