/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18277938]

Where do I start with Shankara? I was once a Christian, but I lost all faith in my superstitions after witnessing the divine intellect of the Advaitins on /lit/. They valiantly and irrevocably refute all the sophistic Buddhists that invade their threads with cope, showing them to be nothing more than fools, half-men and nihilists. I am afraid that I am not worthy of such grace and knowledge, but I cannot turn back now that my heart has been opened to the Truth.

[Anonymous No.18277985]

Start with Ramanuja

[Anonymous No.18278018]

>>18277938
Is that a troll ?
Anyway read Shankara, understand and do as he says.
Orthodox christianity is good but it's ok for you to reject everything that is not pure like the advaita.

[Anonymous No.18278032]

>>18277938
>Where do I start with Shankara?
With his 8 shorter Upanishad commentaries, which can be read here below, then read his other Upanishad commentaries after, and then his remaining works in any order.

https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-Vol-1.pdf
https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-vol2.pdf

Unless you’ve already studied Hindu philosophy, you’ll have to read a book first that explains all the Sanskrit terminology he uses or else you’ll probably struggle to understand him, this short book on Vedanta below by Rene Guenon should be enough if you read it first before Shankara (it was for me). Another book on Vedanta or Hindu philosophy is fine too, I'd also recommend "Advaita Tradition in Indian Philosophy" by Sharma or "Advaita Vedanta a Philosophical Reconstruction" by Deutsch.

https://sufipathoflove.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/1925-man-and-his-becoming-according-to-the-vedc3a2nta.pdf

>I was once a Christian
Some people have viewed Advaita as not opposed to but as fundamentally in agreement with Christianity (Rene Guenon, Ananda Coomaraswamy, Frithjof Schuon, Bede Griffiths, Alphonse Levée etc). It's not my place to tell you what religion to follow, you should follow your heart in these matters, but you should know that studying Advaita and feeling compelled by it is not necessarily mutually exclusive with being a Christian. Some Christian metaphysicians have reached almost identical or highly similar conclusions to Advaita about God and reality despite not knowing about Indian writings.

[Anonymous No.18278105]

>>18278032
>you should know that studying Advaita and feeling compelled by it is not necessarily mutually exclusive with being a Christian
I would like to disagree. Explicit non-duality with no veil in front of it is typicall of Advaita vedanta. For example, the path of Christ is that of devotion, not of pure metaphysics like in advaita. OP would not be able to study advaita as a christian as it would hurt his zeal and exclusive love for Christ. Syncretism is not the way.

>>18277938
Sorry OP I forgot to answer your question.
I like "the crest jewel of wisdom" and you can see some of Shankara's writtings here in good translations :
https://www.shankaracharya.org/
Indeed, as the other anon said, it could be good to read René Guénon first to get prepared about some notions and metaphysical points.

[Anonymous No.18278763]

>>18277938
https://www.jstor.org/stable/23582565

[Anonymous No.18278883]

>>18278763
Holy Based

[Anonymous No.18279476]

>>18277985
fpbp

don't fall for the crypto-buddhist mind virus, op

[Anonymous No.18279485]

>>18278763
>>18278883
>bro, the buddhist void is above the trinity, how based!

big cringe

[Anonymous No.18279538]

>>18279476
t. brainlet
>>18279485
Brahman is not the Buddhist void, because Brahman is eternal, pristine, self-revealing consciousness, there is no eternal presence or consciousness in the Buddhist void.

[Anonymous No.18279545]

>not following the teachings of mr.buddha instead
ngmi

[Anonymous No.18279634]

>>18279545
Buddha and his false doctrine was soundly refuted by Sri Shankaracharya, the doctrine of anatta fails to account for and acknowledge the reality of one’s own self of consciousness, and the doctrine of dependent origination is illogical for the reason that it cannot reasonably be the origin of samsara and the world as Shankaracharya pointed out.

[Anonymous No.18279810]

>>18279545
buddha was refuted by shankara
>>18279634
shankara was refuted by vadiraja

resurrection of the body refutes all eastern religions

[Anonymous No.18279831]

>>18277938
Read also Guenon(PBUH) and maybe give a chance to Islam and sufism. I also like Advaita but I decided to follow Islam.

[Anonymous No.18279886]

>>18279810
>shankara was refuted by vadiraja
No, he wasn’t. Vadiraja’s whole argument revolves about the notion that the Atman-Brahman in Advaita is identical to the jiva, which it’s not; so his entire argument fails since it depends on this misconception about Advaita, which is not taught by Shankara
>resurrection of the body refutes all eastern religions
only if you can’t into logic

[Anonymous No.18279962]

>>18279810
please summarize vidiraja's thinking into a meme

[Anonymous No.18279990]

>>18277938
Fool! Advaita is Buddhism’s last stand!
>>18277985
Based

[Anonymous No.18279999]

>>18279538
I don't understand how you can claim that Brahman is without attributes and then go on to assign a whole truckload of attributes to it.

[Anonymous No.18280024]

>>18279962
how can ur highest self be god if you can suffer in hell

[Anonymous No.18280053]

Advaita = thesis
Dvaita = antithesis
Vishishtadvaita = synthesis

[Anonymous No.18280066]

>>18279999
When Advaita says without attributes they mean worldly attributes, consciousness is not of the world but the world is in consciousness. Consciousness or the Self or the Atman is pure self-revealing presence without any internal distinctions or forms characterizing it that might correspond to worldly objects and forms. The application of Nirguna to Brahman is already implicitly based on the prior understanding of it as simply consciousness, so when they say “without attributes” they don’t mean “nothing can be said about the Atman such that we can’t even call it sentience” but rather that it is a pure consciousness which lacks or is free from anything other than Itself, which is not characterized by anything else and which is not subject to delimitations like worldly objects are.

[Anonymous No.18280098]

>>18280066
to add, Nirguna means without the gunas or primordial qualities (Sattva, Raja and Tamas) recognized in Hindu philosophy, not that nothing can be affirmed about it

[Anonymous No.18280144]

>mfw the Trojan horse I implanted in Hinduism is doing well and good and Buddhism survives in India with the name of Advaita

[Anonymous No.18280178]

>>18279634
Lol at making Buddha dark and Shankara light. Buddha came from northernmost India (just inside what is now Nepal) while Shankara came from Kerala, the south west tip of India where people are among the darkest on the subcontinent.

[Anonymous No.18280195]

>>18280053
>Vishishtadvaita
This word is self-contradictory.
A non-duality, if it is really a non-duality, can't be qualified.

[Anonymous No.18280251]

>>18280144

The Chad Advaitin:
>yeah bro you're like Atman and like Atman is Brahman and like everything is Brahman bro so you're like yourself experiencing yourself bro cuz everything is Brahman bro

The Virgin NPCddhist:
>n-nooo not my heckin feelerinos o god i am soofering aaaaarrrrhgghhhh must not desire must not attach i am nothing i dont exist nothing exists that is why gautama preached liberation because nothing can get totally liberated liberation does not in any way imply something being liberated from something nothingness is totally non conceptual nothingness a thing

[Anonymous No.18280285]

>>18280251
buddhism is scientific!

[Anonymous No.18280330]

>>18278763
Based
Sat-cit-ananda in Brahman
Trinity in the One

[Anonymous No.18280338]

>>18278763
guenondude was retroactively refuted by pic. i also pointed it before how He cannot be impersonal by the same logic

[Anonymous No.18280358]

>>18280338
>in the following quote we find Upadhyay asserting that God is a person by rational argument
Post the rest of the argument.

[Anonymous No.18280367]

Noooo you must revere the Buddha who is no one and his teachings which are emptiness in order to (not) be liberated from nothing and experience nothing in nothingness

[Anonymous No.18280368]

>>18280358

[Anonymous No.18280389]

>>18280368
I found this argument weak
William Lane Craig have better arguments for the personnality of the First Cause IMO
But anyway, the article shows that Brahman is not impersonal, that's a mistranslation

[Anonymous No.18280395]

>>18280338
>>18280368
>guenondude was retroactively refuted by pic. i also pointed it before how He cannot be impersonal by the same logic
No, that logic doesn't hold up, because all you have to do to demonstrate its faultiness is apply the same logic to the ungodly characteristics of humans and in order for the logic used to be consistent the same must be true of God, which makes him not God anymore

e.g.

>We find there are beings endowed with ignorance, slovenliness, carelessness, rapaciousness; therefore the First Cause must contain ignorance, slovenliness, carelessness and rapaciousness pre-eminently.

[Anonymous No.18280403]

>>18280367

[Anonymous No.18280408]

>>18280367
you want freedom... it's simpel... just stop thinking...

[Anonymous No.18280411]

>>18280338
No one cares about your "refutations". We will follow Guenon(pbuh) until the end of Kali Yuga and beyond it! All of your zeal can't stop our love for the sufi Shaykh!

[Anonymous No.18280412]

>>18278763
care to sum it up ?

>>18280338
>>18280368

How and why does it refutate the "guenondude" ? The concept of Personnality is explicitely said by Guénon to be able to have a universal absolute meaning. But it must not be confused with individual. Consciousness and Salf in fact stands for personnality

[Anonymous No.18280422]

>>18280412
*Self
my bad

[Anonymous No.18280427]

>>18280395
>to the ungodly characteristics
false and retroactively refuted by plato and other platonists. the ungodly characteristics are a corruption of good.

>>18280412
>>18280411
i mean the guenon poster

[Anonymous No.18280465]

>>18280427
>the ungodly characteristics are a corruption of good.
That doesn't provide an escape from the conundrum that Upadhyay lands himself in with his faulty argument

If the corruption is not contained pre-eminently in God then Upadhyaya's maxim that "There can be nothing in the universe which is not contained in the First Cause in a pre-eminent way" is violated. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too by declaring that the things you like are contained pre-eminently in God but the things you don't like are not contained pre-eminently in God, but this is inconsistent logic because it violates Upadhaya's maxim that he uses in his argument, so the whole argument collapses in on itself and falls apart.

[Anonymous No.18280486]

>>18280411
basado

[Anonymous No.18280496]

>>18280465
corruption occurs by lack or excess of virtues. they are not things in themselves. there is no being in the shadow

[Anonymous No.18280509]

>>18280465
Read the article, that's not one of the main arguments and i too find it weak. But the article is good

[Anonymous No.18280635]

>>18280496
That's just attempting to hand-wave the problem away, if the ostensible lack or excess of virtues which manifests itself as ungodly traits are not contained in God-preeminently, then there will be a lack or excess of virtue manifesting itself as ungodly traits which is not contained pre-eminently in God and the maxim that everything must be contained pre-eminently in God is still violated; the conspicuous absence of an ideal trait (manifesting itself as anger, greed etc) is not identical with nothingness, but only nothingness could be innocent of the charge of violating Upadhyaya's maxim.

Similarly, empty space is not identical with nothingness because empty space still provides extension for things to be manifested or take place in while nothingness doesn't contain/provide extension. Trying to hand-wave away the ungodly traits as non-being or nothingness and thus taking it as not something that will contradict Upadhyaya's maxim is a mistake on par with taking empty space to be synonymous with nothingness. A corruption of something is still something, otherwise if corruption is identical with nothingness we would never perceive anything but the idealized form of everything 24/7 because nothingness is incapable of being known as an object and we could never know it in the form of corruption.

[Anonymous No.18280673]

>>18280635
go argue with the platonists, neoplatonists and advaitins then. you are proposing a duality of good and evil

[Anonymous No.18280682]

>>18279831
Any other good books on Sufism? I plan to try Guénon, but these aspects of Islam have really interested me lately

[Anonymous No.18280701]

Vishishtadvaita makes a thousand times more sense than this autism that you are absolutely identical with Brahman yet you have someone became deluded about this, and to even get this interpretation you have to do extreme mental gymnastics about multiple levels of truth in scripture. Only bugmen believe in Advaita

[Anonymous No.18280764]

Vedanta is all a bunch of pilpul.

Advaita:
>everything is the same!
Visistadvaita:
>everything is ultimately the same!
Dvaita:
>everything is contingent and created by God, so basically the same!

[Anonymous No.18280802]

>>18279538
>because Brahman is eternal, pristine, self-revealing consciousness, there is no eternal presence or consciousness in the Buddhist void.

you just limited Brahman by saying that...keep coping, you inconsistent crypto-buddhist!

[Anonymous No.18280803]

>>18280682
Guenon's first chapters from Insights into Islamic Esoterism and Taoism(you can find pdf) are very good for a beginner, explaining in an impeccable way what sufism is and its relation to exoterism. After that I guess that you can read Burckhardt's book, Introduction to Sufi Doctrine. But if you really want to read the best sufi works in an european language, learn french and read Michel Valsan's translations and commentaries of Ibn Arabi, and pretty much everything that you can find from him. Also, I don't suggest you to read Ibn Arabi in english, better learn french.

[Anonymous No.18280809]

>>18280066
Desperate and pathetic cope. Sentience is worldly.

[Anonymous No.18280822]

>>18280412
>The concept of Personnality is explicitely said by Guénon to be able to have a universal absolute meaning. But it must not be confused with individual. Consciousness and Salf in fact stands for personnality

What's with all this dishonest argumentation? Guenon explicitly states there is no person, no memory in the advaita void. Guenon literally told Coomaraswamy he's not gonna remember anything of his life or experience himself in the advaita after-life. Read his letters.

What you're dishonestly calling Self has no relation to the actual definition of the word as understood by 99% of people. When advaitins say 'Self' they mean "hodge-podge" or "void."

[Anonymous No.18280825]

>>18280673
>go argue with the platonists, neoplatonists and advaitins then.
I am an Advaitin in my spiritual beliefs
>you are proposing a duality of good and evil
No I'm not, I'm just pointing out the logical inconsistency of what you are arguing, however what I'm saying is not inconsistent with what is taught by Advaita though. Since Advaita adheres to Vivartavada and not Parinamavada or another form of real creationism/emanationism Advaitins don't box themselves into the trap of saying all things must be contained in God pre-eminently to begin with like Upadhyaya does.

Advaita says that both evil and good don't ultimately exist and that Brahman is beyond the human concepts of good and evil. In Advaita "evil" does not have its own independent existence but is a false misunderstanding or appearance of ultimate reality, but Advaita doesn't need to equate this evil as being synonymous with nothingness in order to be logically consistent like the logic you are using does since Advaitins can say that the perception of evil arises from Brahman's maya, which is not identical with nothingness. There is no duality of good and evil in Advaita for the reason that the ultimate reality transcends and is untouched by these sorts of dualistic distinctions, for the liberated man they vanish.

[Anonymous No.18280830]

>>18280822
>Guenon literally told Coomaraswamy he's not gonna remember anything of his life or experience himself in the advaita after-life.
Because the ego will die, retard

[Anonymous No.18280832]

>>18280803
Ibn Arabi explicitly contradicts Guenon on many important aspects. Guenon never read him or even learned classical arabic (just modern egyptian - kek!).

Perennialists need to start reading the primary sources instead of believing whatever their freemasonic opium dealer tells them.

[Anonymous No.18280837]

>>18280830
Exactly. No self. It's Buddhism.

[Anonymous No.18280842]

>>18280832
>Ibn Arabi explicitly contradicts Guenon on many important aspects.
Such as?

[Anonymous No.18280851]

>>18280837
The ego is not the self lmao

[Anonymous No.18280884]

>>18280851
>The ego is not the self

I wonder if this whole thing, the Advaita-Buddhism cringe fest just comes down to each side having different specific meanings for Self and Ego, and then reading those meanings into each other.

[Anonymous No.18280890]

>>18280825
bla bla bla maya

advaita is definitely crypto buddhism i mean look at this crap

[Anonymous No.18280899]

>>18280884
Basically this

[Anonymous No.18280904]

>>18280701
>that you are absolutely identical with Brahman yet you have someone became deluded about this
The mind is deluded about this, but you are not the mind. When one identifies themselves with their mind, what the Self already knows and has always known is obscured to the mind even when it exists simultaneously with the mind in the midst of it as the inner light which illumines the mind from within. Vishishtadvaita has its own numerous logical contradictions.
>>18280764
Buddhist logic and argumentation come much closer to pilpul than Hindu theology does. Advaita doesn't say that everything is the same btw but it distinguishes between the eternal awareness that is ultimately real and the non-eternal insentient phenomena that are ultimately unreal.
>>18280802
Infinite and eternal consciousness is not limited by anything spatially or temporally.
>>18280809
>Sentience is worldly.
Can you point out to me where sentience exists as a visible or graspable object in the world then? You can't because its invisible and formless and so there's no empirical evidence for it being worldly. We only have knowledge of the world insofar as it appears to us through and within sentience, which is prior to the appearance of the world and qualitatively different from it.

[Anonymous No.18280915]

>>18278763
The Christian subverts. The Christian destroys.

[Anonymous No.18280923]

>>18280884
Well, Buddhism is just misunderstood Advaita. Shankara's refutations were directed to buddhists that misunderstood their own religion.

[Anonymous No.18280946]

>>18280822
>Guenon explicitly states there is no person, no memory in the advaita void.
Guenon explains that the true metaphysical meaning of personhood is puruṣa, i.e. pure consciousness, and that what the west in its confusion regards as the person is really just the individuality which is contingent upon the personhood of puruṣa which is the Atman. When Guenon says there is no person or memory for a liberated man whose body dies (I have not seen the quote) he would have been speaking in the western sense of the individuality, i.e. the essential person or personhood of puruṣa lives on eternality, while the contingent things that belong to the individuality don't continue.

i.e.

>It follows from this that human individuality is at once much more and much less than Westerners generally suppose it to be: much more, because they recognize in it scarcely anything except the corporeal modality, which includes but the smallest fraction of its possibilities; much less, however, because this individuality, far from really constituting the whole being, is but one state of that being among an indefinite multitude of other states. Moreover the sum of all these states is still nothing at all in relation to the personality, which alone is the true being, because it alone represents its permanent and unconditioned state, and because there is nothing else which can be considered as absolutely real.

>All the rest is, no doubt, real also, but only in a relative way by reason of its dependence upon the Principle and insofar as it reflects it in some degree, as the image reflected in a mirror derives all its reality from the object it reflects and could enjoy no existence apart from it; but this lesser reality, which is only participative, is illusory in relation to the supreme Reality as the image is also illusory in relation to the object; and if we should attempt to isolate it from the Principle, this illusion would become a pure and simple non-entity. We thus observe that existence, that is to say conditioned and manifested being, is at once real in one sense and illusory in another
- Man and His Becoming According to the Vedanta


>What you're dishonestly calling Self has no relation to the actual definition of the word as understood by 99% of people. When advaitins say 'Self' they mean "hodge-podge" or "void."
That's completely wrong, Self for Advaitins is the self-revealing awareness in which everything else takes place, this is the most logically consistent definition of the self, because if you posit something that it observed by awareness as the self (like the mind, sense of individuality or ego), then you are admitting there is a foreign presence deep inside who isn't you but which observes you, which doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous No.18280953]

>>18280803
Thanks for the help, anon. Appreciate it.

[Anonymous No.18280988]

>>18280837
The ego cannot be the Self because it's known by an awareness within which the ego comes and goes while that awareness remains, if the ego is the Self then who is that awareness? Someone else? An alien observing your thoughts?
>>18280837
Buddhism almost entirely denies that there is an unchanging center of consciousness i.e. Self or Atman; most Buddhists consider this to be completely anathema to Buddhism. So no, Advaita is not Buddhism.
>>18280832
Guenon said that Advaita was the most complete explanation of the truth that is found in other traditions, that isnt mutually exclusive with Ibn Arabi or Chinese people or Christians also realizing that perennial truth and expressing it in a way that fits their milieu and religion, when Ibn Arabi contradicts Vedanta for Guenon that would mean Vedanta has the fuller explanation of which Ibn Arabi distills the essence of without getting every single detail correct.
>>18280884
That's only a small part of it, there is much more to it such as that Buddhists are anti-foundationalists who believe that there can just be uncaused and beginningless cycles of contingent things existing without that cycle being rooted in any higher non-contingent thing, which is rejected by all Vedanta schools.
>>18280890
Advaita is diametrically opposed to Buddhism on practically every important doctrine.

[Anonymous No.18281000]

Noooooo! I, a Buddhist, hath been vanquished by the light of Advaita and their Brahma-knowing followers, with their superior intellects, wit and bigger dicks! I can no longer can follow the nihilistic and effeminate ways of the Buddha! What am I to do??

[Anonymous No.18281020]

>>18281000
>What am I to do??
repent and accept that you are the eternal unchanging Self

[Anonymous No.18281036]

>>18281020
if repenting is part of meaningless temporal change, what would it matter?

[Anonymous No.18281112]

>>18281036
Because repentance in the form of introspection and contemplation of Vedantic truth clears away the obstacles that block the luminous Truth of what has always been from revealing itself to you when it's pre-existent light is reflected in the receptacle of the intellect. That supernal light is always shining and bathing the intellect in its light even when the intellect is covered in a layer of impurities that prevent a clear reflection within it.

>The eye of knowledge contemplates the being which is life, intelligence, and all-pervading happiness; but the eye of ignorance cannot contemplate That, just as a person who is blind cannot perceive the shining sun.
- Shankaracharya, Atma-Bodha

[Anonymous No.18281128]

>>18281112
thanks, glad you saw my question as sincere, very interesting

[Anonymous No.18281144]

>>18281020
At last I finally see it! It has been there all along, obscured by ignorance and excess progesterone...

[Anonymous No.18281386]

>>18278763
Actually good omg

[Anonymous No.18281664]

>>18279634
anon ,I

https://www.amazon.com/Call-Crocodile-Horrors-F-Gardner-ebook/dp/B08KFJG9KW

[Anonymous No.18281841]

>>18280904
>Advaita doesn't say that everything is the same btw
Are they not saying that everything is Brahman and this is only not recognized because of ignorance? Maybe I’m just a hylic but half of these Vedanta positions seem extremely similar, where the real difference is only a question of nuance and focus. This isn’t a criticism per se, to me it shows there’s at least a lot of core agreement and common ground

[Anonymous No.18281938]

>>18280822
You confuse the concepts of person and individuality.
The concept of person, of Purusha as the "Supreme Lord" in Advaita vedanta, is of course not limitative. It's the supreme consciousnesses. That's why Guénon says the concept is universal. He talks extensively how God is above and not bellow individuality, and how realization is sublimmation of the ego, not fading into inexistence. You didn't read Guenon or about dualism.

Now the concept of individuality on the contrary means the ego, a limited being.

>Guenon explicitly states there is no person, no memory in the advaita void
Apart from the fact the way he states anything is important, indeed there is no memory, since memory signify time. And there is no time nor space, no vision (like in the memory) inside of God. But, God is above and not bellow time and space and anything you can name in this limited world.

Take a picture, in a bloc of stone, there is all the statue you can take out of (since you would just have to dig the stone), yet there is not a single one in a separated way.

>When advaitins say 'Self' they mean "hodge-podge" or "void."
It is explicitely said to be the "I", the subject, the intimate principle.

If you can't or don't want to accept advaita vedanta, seek something else.

[Anonymous No.18281945]

>>18281841
>Are they not saying that everything is Brahman and this is only not recognized because of ignorance?
No, Advaita says that Brahman is the fundamental reality underlying the appearances of all objects and space/time, but that these things like for example physical matter are not Brahman Itself but rather are just how the reality of Brahman presents Itself, filtered through the lenses of or veiled by Its own power. For Advaitins "everything" is Brahman only in the sense that the absolute reality underlying everything is Brahman, but the empirical experience of the appearance of this reality that is detected through the mind and sense organs is not identical to this reality as It truly is in Itself.

>For classical Advaita Vedānta, Brahman is the fundamental reality underlying all objects and experiences.
>Advaita provisionally accepts the empirical reality of individual selves, mental ideas and physical objects as a cognitive construction of this natural state of ignorance. But from the absolute standpoint, none of these have independent existence but are founded on Brahman. From the standpoint of this fundamental reality, individual minds as well as physical objects are appearances and do not have abiding reality. Brahman appears as the manifold objects of experience because of its creative power, māyā.
https://iep.utm.edu/adv-veda/

Whereas the Vishishtadvaita Vedanta of Ramanuja says that the cosmos and physical matter are actually Brahman Itself, or rather parts of Brahman inhering in the greater whole that is Brahman's body.

> Rāmānuja, like many Vedāntins, does not subscribe to the Medieval Christian doctrine of creation ex nihilo: Brahman does not create individual persons, or basic, non-relational qualities for that matter, for these are eternal features of its Body. Brahman does engage in a form of creation, which consists in granting individual persons the fruits of their desires (whatever they are). The result of this dispensation is the organization of the elements comprising Brahman‘s body into the cosmos (Śrī Bhāṣya, I.i.1. “Great Siddhānta” p.124)
https://iep.utm.edu/ramanuja/

[Anonymous No.18282198]

>>18281945
These are almost exactly the same. Just think about it

[Anonymous No.18282261]

>>18282198
>These are almost exactly the same. Just think about it
I have thought about it and I respectfully disagree. Yes, they are similar, especially from the perspective of someone outside Hinduism, and this similarity between them is why they are called "non-dualism" and "qualified non-dualism", but when you get into the intricacies of the metaphysics of both doctrines, the distinctions between them become manifold.

In Advaita, Brahman is partless undifferentiated immaterial consciousness which is completely free from all change and modifications, and all effects are appearances of the primordial cause, and consciousness is held to not depend on its objects but is instead held to be self-revealing.

In Vishishtadvaita, Brahman is a substance that is comprised of distinct parts that undergoes change when it differentiates itself into various modalities, some of which are sentient and other parts insentient, and all effects pre-exist within the primordial cause, and consciousness is held to be dependent upon its object.

[Anonymous No.18282461]

>>18282261
They’re the same ultimately. You have to look past the philosophical pilpul and before long it will be become obvious. Meditate.

[Anonymous No.18282477]

>>18280330
>>18278763
based

>>18280395
https://brahmabandhabupadhyay.blogspot.com/2012/08/tripersonalising-parabrahman.html
the article can be accessed here

> The problem of the ‘impersonal’ reality of Brahman arises from the translations of the works of Śankara during the time of Upadhyay. It should be noted that the translations into English were done by Christian scholars or western scholars who had come from Christian backgrounds. Since relationship was intrinsic to the idea of a person, it was natural that a Being having no relations should be considered as impersonal. But this does not justify the translation of nirguna as impersonal, because nirguna can very well have been translated into ‘tie-less’ (as Upadhyay would suggest). But the translators never had any intention, like Upadhyay had, of reconciling the Christian God with the Parabrahman. If this was the case they would have been extremely careful in their translations. They simply felt that ‘unrelational’ is against ‘personal’ so therefore should be impersonal. Therefore the absolute Brahman is impersonal.
> (...)
> Upadhyay vehemently opposed this translation of M. Thibaut. It was evident by the forceful language he uses in this article where he says, “M. Thibaut has, to the great misfortune of the civilized world, seen the Vedanta through coloured glasses… (he) has been subject to a huge misconception… nothing can be more unjust than to translate “nirgunam” as “impersonal.”30 In the ensuing argument in which Upadhyay tries to validate his point it is interesting to note how he finally presents the nirguna brahman itself as supra-personal “to avoid confusion”, which literally would involve the dynamics of being personal, that in its very definition embodies relatedness, although in a different way. Or, shall we say in an analogical way?
>
> Upadhyay says, “He (Parabrahman) is “nirguna”, lit., tie-less, because “guna” means rope, a tie.”31 To be ‘tie-less would mean to be unrelated and this is exactly what he maintains about the Parabrahman, but later towards the end of the paragraph he says, “To be a person is to be related. A person is self-conscious, free individual… God is self-conscious and free, though unrelated, and can not therefore be styled an impersonal being. To avoid confusion he may be called supra-personal.”32
> (...)

[Anonymous No.18282483]

>>18282477
> If God is sat, cit, ānanda, then it necessarily follows that God is tripersonal, as shown in the Thomistic Trinitarian theology, and therefore related within himself and not without. Relation without is dependence and limitation, not relation within. So if God is conceived as one and not triune then relation has to be understood as implying relation with an object outside (without) therefore a limitation, but if God is conceived as triune (that is oneness in threeness), then relation is evident, but within, avoiding the limitation of a necessary relation without. In this way Upadhyay personalises the Parabrahman, using the very system of Śankara but interpreting it in the light of Thomistic Trinitarian theology.35

[Anonymous No.18282524]

>>18282477
>>18282483
>>18280395
pic rel.

[Anonymous No.18282532]

>>18282524
the trinity becomes so clear when you mix vedantic and thomistic metaphysics... holy based

[Anonymous No.18282541]

>>18282477
>the article can be accessed here
there is not everything on this link, it misses the hymn posted below for example

[Anonymous No.18282710]

bump

[Anonymous No.18282800]

>>18282524
>>18282483
>>18282477
>>18278763

I hate to break it to you but this parallel between the Trinity and Satcitananda is rejected by contemporaries autorities of Advaita Vedanta.

Because in the christian Trinity there is dependency of the Son to the Father (Source and Origin of the Trinity) and then another dependency of the Spirit (subject to debate between the papist and the orthodox but it doesn't affect our point). God the Father is the model of the son, his Image (and I will not talk about the Spirit to not complicate it). Whereas SatCitAnanda depicts the nature of Brahman in three different way, absolute, not dependent to one another (because it's the same being) and simultaneous.

There is no relations between Sat (Being), Cit (Conciousness) and Ananda (Bliss) because it is the same divine nature. I could as well say that God is blissful because He knows His Being, or that He is conscious of the blissfullness of Being or that He is Conscious of Being pure Bliss.
And the three hypostasis of the Trinity have all the same : Being, Bliss and Consciousness, there is not one that is Being, one that is counciousness and one that is bliss. They are all blissful, conscious and ontologically infinite. In fact, all Bliss,... comes from the Father, but they all have it in participation (pure and thus equal participation).
The mystery of the Trinity is that of participation (from the model to the image and toward the spirit that go down to men.
The mystery of Sat-Cit-Ananda is that of the identity, in God, of the names or manifestations of Goodness.

[Anonymous No.18282828]

>>18282800
>I hate to break it to you but this parallel between the Trinity and Satcitananda is rejected by contemporaries autorities of Advaita Vedanta.
? Of course kek
But that doesn't answer the arguments

>Because in the christian Trinity there is dependency of the Son to the Father (Source and Origin of the Trinity) and then another dependency of the Spirit (subject to debate between the papist and the orthodox but it doesn't affect our point). God the Father is the model of the son, his Image (and I will not talk about the Spirit to not complicate it). Whereas SatCitAnanda depicts the nature of Brahman in three different way, absolute, not dependent to one another (because it's the same being) and simultaneous.
The God of christianity is also one simple and simultaneous (ipsum esse)
Relation =/= dependency

>There is no relations between Sat (Being), Cit (Conciousness) and Ananda (Bliss) because it is the same divine nature.
Same in trinity

[Anonymous No.18282860]

>>18282828
>dependency
Causality. The Father cause the Son. The Son's being depends on that of the Father.
Whereas there is no causality in Satcidananda.
In the Trinity there is a relation of causality, of ontological origin,... but there can't be in satcitananda.

[Anonymous No.18282881]

>>18282860
>Causality. The Father cause the Son
God isn't caused

[Anonymous No.18282890]

>>18282881
The uncaused cause is the Father, the source of the divinity of the Trinity according to all the christian tradition.
The fact the Father causes the Son is not even a debate in any christian church.

[Anonymous No.18282892]

Guenonfag repeatedly says the Upanishads reject ritualistic religion yet in multiple places they describe how to perform vedic rituals, like Chāndogya Upanishad 2.24 which is instructions for the patron of a sacrifice during the soma offering. A major theme of the earliest Upanishads is knowing the mystical connections between the sacrifice and the universe or the gods, which knowledge grants power and prestige in this world and grants a world after death (i.e. a positive afterlife). The very first chapter of the Brihadaranyaka is describing the correspondences between the sacrificial horse and the cosmos, which requires knowledge of the vedic sacrifices to understand.

TL;DR Guenonfag is wrong

[Anonymous No.18282918]

>>18282890
Wrong. The father, the son and the HS are equally and fully God.

[Anonymous No.18282950]

>>18282918
Yet the only uncaused or not generated is the Father. That's why He is called the Father and the Son, is, as it indicates, generated.
It's in creed :
>And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
They are fully God, and yet there is causality in it.

[Anonymous No.18282967]

>>18282950
>That's why He is called the Father and the Son, is, as it indicates, generated.
Theses are intern relations IN God
God is simple and uncaused

[Anonymous No.18283001]

>>18282950
I'm not even a christfag but I don't think causality applies to the trinity in that way. The relationship between the three hypostases is eternal and not caused. None of them is prior to another in causal terms. So the Son is eternally begotten of the Father and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and Son (or just the Father for Orthodox).

You can criticise it by saying it's incoherent but you can't say that Christians believe the Son is caused by the Father.

[Anonymous No.18283036]

>>18280144
Cope

[Anonymous No.18283139]

>>18282461
They can both lead you to feelings of oneness with everything, but that doesn't mean they are the same, and the respective masters of both held them to be different. This doesn't mean that both cannot be different approaches to the same truth, but as theologies and metaphysics they are distinct.

>>18282524
>>18282477
I just read the article about Upadhyaya, As the poster who made these posts >>18280825 >>18280465 >>18280395 I was only arguing against Upadhyaya's argument that will could be attributed to the Parabrahman on the basis of it being found in creation, I was arguing against the Parabrahman being conceived of in the western sense of personality where something has a mind characterized by volition, as opposed to the Hindu conception of personhood found in the word puruṣa, which doesn't necessarily have any connection with volition.

Shankara is unequivocal that there is no will (volition) in the Parabrahman, the article doesn't really mention volition, but strangely, in one section (pic related), it mistranslates ananda as will. I'm not sure why the author does this since he elsewhere correctly translates it as bliss.

I thought it was interesting that the article writes about Hippolytus using the Greek word prosopon to denote someone's distinctive individuality, this made me think of Guenon's statement that western thought has often understood as the personality what is really the individuality.

I agree that in Advaita the Parabrahman is personal if the word is taken in more eastern or Hindu sense as puruṣa, that is as a living intelligent entity. There is no room IMO to consider Satchitananda as three persons in one substance, but like how Augustine made a psychological comparison of different aspects of one person's mind to the trinity, in the same way Satchitananda can be conceived of as the personhood or supra-personhood of Brahman conceived under the three aspects that denote the nature of the undivided entity that is Brahman.

These three don't abide as separate eternal aspects united in one substance, but they designate the nature of the same entity when viewed under different angles, but this nature is ingraspable as an object of thought and can only be directly and fully experienced in immediate spiritual realization, trying to encapsulate it into language causes us to have to denote it in various ways that leads to us using multiple words like bliss and consciousness.

[Anonymous No.18283159]

>>18282967
>Theses are intern relations IN God
There is still a causality, be it in our out of God. Th Son is divine so He doesn't go out, or in, in any other place than that of the Father, since he is completely equal to the infinite and absolute Father.
>God is simple and uncaused
According to the christian tradition His simplicity comes from the fact the Trinity as only One cause/origin : the Father.
In Satchidananda, the three are in affixing with Brahman

>>18283001
It's a perfect causality. The concept of causality doesn't imply imperfection. The Christ is the perfect Image of the Father, God from God (from signify a causality or origin).
I don't know what to quote to you, if the creed is not enough.
>Col 1: 15-16 "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities...."

>"In saying that the Father is principle and greater than the Son, we do not intend to show that he is before the Son in time or by nature (it is through him that he has made the centuries); he is this because he is the cause and only for this, that is to say that the Son is begotten of the Father and not the Father of the Son, and that thus the Father by nature is the cause of the Son. Just as light comes from the flame, without the flame preceding the light in time – it is impossible for there to be a flame without light, but the flame is the principle and cause of the light that proceeds from it – so too the Father is the principle and cause of the Word and of the Spirit, for the Word and the Spirit come from the Father, without the Father preceding them in time." Saint John Damascene, Of the Orthodox Faith, 1, 8

>"In a word: the Divinity is indistinctly in distinct persons and there is only one light, as it would be of three suns that would stand in each other. Therefore when we consider the First Cause, the Monarchy [the Father], what we grasp is the One; but when we consider the Hypostases in which the Divinity subsists, Those who hold their eternal being and glory equal to the First Cause then we worship Three as God" Saint Gregory of Nazianzus the theologian. Against Eunominus, first book.

[Anonymous No.18283236]

>>18283159
>According to the christian tradition His simplicity comes from the fact the Trinity as only One cause/origin : the Father.
Here's your error
https://youtu.be/Jcafuc_zoQU

[Anonymous No.18283246]

>>18283159
>the three are in affixing with Brahman
Literally a trinity
Three in one

[Anonymous No.18283250]

>>18283159
>The concept of causality doesn't imply imperfection.
So no problem

[Anonymous No.18283258]

>>18283246
The One is higher than the three. Three are One but One isn't three

[Anonymous No.18283364]

>>18283246
there is no relation of causality between them, give up or at least try to address my point.
it's not the same trinity, I explained it to you.

>>18283236
>"Let us not therefore say that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three gods: let us maintain that the Holy Trinity is one God, because the Son and the Spirit go back to only one cause" Saint John of Damascus, Of the Orthodox Faith.
The son is begotten, and the Spirit proceed from the Father.
Talk yourself. I didn't find your point in what I listened of the video

[Anonymous No.18283391]

>>18282892
>Guenonfag repeatedly says the Upanishads reject ritualistic religion
Guenonfag here, I already explained to you why this is completely wrong in a previous thread when you posted this. You either didn't listen to what I said or you are too stupid to understand the important distinction that I made.

Shankara does not reject Vedic rituals whatsoever
The Upanishads do not reject Vedic rituals whatsoever
I, Guenonfag, have never claimed that either Shankara or the Upanishads rejected Vedic rituals whatsoever

>b-b-b-but I read on wikipedia or in some shitty and badly-edited book that Shankara reject-
WRONG, that's totally wrong

Shankara and the Upanishads only say that Vedic rituals don't lead to moksha, i.e. spiritual enlightenment and eternal liberation from samsara. This is not rejecting the Vedas and their rituals at all since the Vedas don't proclaim that performing Vedic rituals lead to moksha. Instead, the Vedas proclaim that performing Vedic rituals lead to things like one acquiring material wealth, causing one to have sons be born or to be admitted to heaven i.e. brahmaloka (which is not moksha). In order to "reject the Vedas and rituals", Shankara would have to say that something the Vedas say about them is not true or valid, which he never does. Instead Shankara fully accepts what both the Vedas and Upanishads say about rituals, he doesn't even have to reconcile them because they are already consistent and united in their position.

In fact, even in the pre-Upanishad portions of the Vedas the notion that moksha is produced by knowledge alone is already found, witness for instance this line from verse 6.1.6. of the Taittiriya Aranyaka (in the Yajur Veda) "By knowing Brahman one attains immortality here. There is no other way to its attainment". This verse from the Yajur Veda is in perfect agreement with the Upanishads, such as in Svesvatara Upanishad verse 6.15, which states "Only by knowing Him does one pass over death, there is no other way to reach the Supreme Goal."

Shankara repeats all throughout his works that the Vedic rites which are meant to acquire things like sons, cows and heaven are not opposed whatsoever to the Upanishadic passages which say that spiritual knowledge of that Atman produces moksha, because these are different goals or purposes. For men who are desirous of cows or heaven, the mantra portion of the Vedas impart instruction on how to attain those things, and for men who are desirous of liberation the Upanishad portion of the Vedas likewise impart information on how to reach liberation.

[Anonymous No.18283396]

>>18283391
Shankara in his Brahma Sutra Bhasya says that performing Vedic rituals is an important part of preparing oneself for eventual renunciation (monasticism) and the dawning of knowledge because of how according to Shankara the performance of Vedic rites wear purify one's heart. Shankara thought that it was important for Brahmins who were not yet monks to still continue performing all the exterior rituals and other functions of the Vedic religion. The setting aside of ritual is only for the man who doesn't seek the goals that the rites lead to, and who instead is desirous of the liberation that renunciation and knowledge produces.

The following passage is from Shankara's bhasya on Brihadaranyaka Upanishad verse 2.1.20. where it can clearly be seen that he is not rejecting Vedic ritual in the slightest, and that he does not interpret the Upanishads as doing so.

>We see how people disobey even the scriptures because of an excess of attachment etc. Therefore according to the varying tendencies of people, the scriptures variously teach the particular relations subsisting between the ends and means. In this matter people themselves adopt particular means according to their tastes, and the scriptures simply, remain neutral, like the sun, for instance, or a lamp. Similarly somebody may think the highest goal to be not worth striving after. One chooses one’s goal according to one's knowledge, and wants to adopt corresponding means. This is borne out also by the eulogistic passages of the Śruti such as, ‘Three classes of Prajāpati’s sons lived a life of continence with their father, Prajāpati,’ etc. (V. ii. i). Therefore the Vedānta texts that teach the unity of Brahman are not antagonistic to the ritualistic scriptures. Nor are the latter thereby deprived of their scope. Neither do the ritualistic scriptures, which uphold differences such as the factors of an action, take away the authority of the Upaniṣads as regards the unity of Brahman. For the means of knowledge are powerful in their respective spheres, like the ear etc.

https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/the-brihadaranyaka-upanishad/d/doc117945.html

[Anonymous No.18283405]

>>18283396
Further confirmation of what I'm saying is found in the introduction to Shankara's Gita bhasya where he says:

>The Lord created the universe, and wishing to secure order therein He first created the Prajāpatis (Lords of creatures) such as Marīci and caused them to adopt the Pravritti-Dharma, the Religion of Works. He then created others such as Sanaka and Sanandana and caused them to adopt the Nivritti-Dharma, the Religion of Renunciation, characterised by knowledge and indifference to worldly objects. It is the twofold Vedic religion of Works and Renunciation that maintains order in the universe. This Religion which directly leads to liberation and worldly prosperity has long been practiced by all castes and religious orders (varna-asrama) —from the brahmanas downwards,—who sought welfare.

https://archive.org/details/Bhagavad-Gita.with.the.Commentary.of.Sri.Shankaracharya/page/n17/mode/2up

[Anonymous No.18283414]

>>18283396
*according to Shankara the performance of Vedic rites wear away accumulated sins and purify one's heart.

[Anonymous No.18283536]

>>18283391
Hello guenonfag, I see that you are still interested in Vedanta after all of this years. I am curious to know if you decided to follow a certain tradition? From what I remember you were undecided one or two years ago.

[Anonymous No.18283636]

>>18277938

[Anonymous No.18283737]

>>18283536
>I am curious to know if you decided to follow a certain tradition?
Yes, I have identified several schools of Hinduism which admit westerners which I would consider joining, and it is my intention to eventually be initiated into one of them, and I’m aware of locations where I can do this. I have not done it yet though, in part because I have other goals in my life that I’m trying accomplish first. I’m still under 30 and have some time before I reach that age to do it.

[Anonymous No.18283860]

>>18283737
Nice. I plan moving to a muslim country and get initiated there into a sufi tariqa, at some time in the future. Let's hope that we're all gonna make it.

[Anonymous No.18284152]

>>18283860
>Let's hope that we're all gonna make it.
I agree and I hope you find what you are looking for brotha

[Anonymous No.18284187]

I would be careful about reading Advaita Vedanta interpretations such as Shankara's as a commentary to the Upanishads, they are extremely reliant on Buddhist philosophy (Shankara is called a "cryptobuddhist" by most Hindus, and most scholars agree). If you want to read the Upanishads, work through them with editions and commentaries that aren't sectarian, or at least read an interpretation that is closer to the original meaning of the Upanishads, rather than Shankara's 9th century AD quasi-buddhism.

[Anonymous No.18284207]

>>18283860
Based brother, I wish you all the best

[Anonymous No.18284275]

>>18283737
Care to share what that goal is? After reading
Guenon I felt sick with the world and lost my previous great appetite for profane knowledge (yeah I used to fucking love science), now I feel my engineering degree is unfulfilling and will ultimately lead to more corruption to the world. What are your thoughts on this guenonchad?

[Anonymous No.18284280]

I hate to ask for this but I'm starting from the absolute bottom
Is there a reading order of book recommendations? Idk where Buddhism collides with this and I haven't heard of this before

[Anonymous No.18284331]

>>18283860
Egypt man, it's a nice and cheap country and not very far from europe with many sufi tariqas and sheikhs. You can also attend Al-Azhar university where you can further study sufism and maybe become an academic, Egypt has many important shrines and tombs of pious saints that used to live here, some even say that the head of imam hussain is buried in cairo. This is also the country where guenon lived and died, you can visit his home and tomb. I plan to do that myself.

[Anonymous No.18284366]

>>18284275
Not this Anon but the Goal is God. I wish it to you, to know Him.

[Anonymous No.18284450]

>>18284366
I am trying my best to know him by mediating and reading theological texts, but my problem is that reality feels false and toxic, I don't even know what to do to earn an honest living in this clown world. Where do I go?

[Anonymous No.18284611]

>>18284275
>Care to share what that goal is?
Honestly I'd rather not, I'd rather not share too much of my personal life here.
>What are your thoughts on this
It's never too late to switch occupations unless you are on deaths door, I knew someone who was friends with someone who worked as a car mechanic until his 40's but then somehow went to medical school and become a doctor in old age. As another anon suggested there are plenty of opportunities for you to work in academia in a field that is relevant to your spiritual interests. Or you could even find work with some sort of religious organization, or try to use your engineering degree by working for some group that builds infrastructure in poor regions that need it. Inspiration can come from very unlikely places and at completely unexpected times. If you trust in God and try to be the best person you can I'm sure that in time a path forward will reveal itself.

>>18284280
>Is there a reading order of book recommendations?
see this post >>18278032, Adi Shankara (the guy in the picture at the top of this thread) is the main philosopher of the Advaita Vedanta school of Hinduism, and reading through his works after preparing for it by reading a book on Hindu philosophy is the best way to understand Advaita short of studying with a teacher.

If your background is Buddhism, then you may want to read "The Advaita Tradition in Indian Philosophy" by Sharma, since he writes about Buddhism and contrasts it with Advaita Vedanta in that book.

https://archive.org/details/TheAdvaitaTraditionInIndianPhilosophyChandradharSharma

the book "I Am That" consists of a series of talks recorded with a Hindu ascetic in the 20th century which talks about much of these ideas in a simple, conversational manner, you could also start there since that doesn't require you to read translations of lengthy and arcane medieval-era prose Sanskrit writings.

http://www.prahlad.org/gallery/nisargadatta/I_Am_That.pdf

[Anonymous No.18284846]

>>18284611
Sorry if I bothered you by asking, I thought you planed writing a book or something.
>there are plenty of opportunities for you to work in academia
Aren't academics supported by tax payer's money (at least in my country) which comes from people crushing their souls at awful desk jobs? I don't know but it feels wrong somehow that I should make a living from the laypeople like this.
>working for some group that builds infrastructure in poor regions that need it
I think that I would be doing more harm than good by building infrastructure in places where this type of civilization doesn't belong. I feel that our current way of living is completely alien and contrary to tradition
>Inspiration can come from very unlikely places and at completely unexpected times. If you trust in God and try to be the best person you can I'm sure that in time a path forward will reveal itself.
That's my hope, because I am completely lost at this point in time with my whole world view shattered to pieces.

[Anonymous No.18285149]

>>18284611
>since he writes about Buddhism and contrasts it with Advaita Vedanta in that book.
yeah although intellectuals 1000 years after the death of the buddha don't understand buddhism. it's a pity their analysis is trash.

[Anonymous No.18285156]

>>18280904>>18281841

>Advaita doesn't say that everything is the same btw but it distinguishes between the eternal awareness that is ultimately real and the non-eternal insentient phenomena that are ultimately unreal.
Which is Mahayana, how weird!

[Anonymous No.18285667]

Kek at all the Buddhists seething here.

[Anonymous No.18285832]

>>18285149
>don't understand buddhism
What does Sharma not understand about Buddhism?
>>18285156
>Which is Mahayana, how weird
That’s wrong, you don’t know what you are talking about, in Mahayana practically every school denies that awareness or consciousness is ultimately real, because that would mean it has intrinsic existence or svabhava. Nagarjuna argued against things having svabhava (his arguments for this are fallacious, but that’s another discussion), and following his lead practically all or 95+% of Mahayana schools say that awareness or consciousness cannot be ultimately real, whereas Advaita Vedanta is not burdened by anti-foundationalism and so Advaita unequivocally affirms the reality and real existence of consciousness, unlike Mahayana.

[Anonymous No.18285961]

>>18284331
I was also thinking about North Africa, maybe Morocco.
>>18284846
Move with me in Morocco in a few years.

[Anonymous No.18286084]

The Advaitin / Buddhist wars on /lit/ might be the most comfy thing on the whole internet for me these days.

[Anonymous No.18287488]

>>18283391
Oi guenonfag what do you think about this article?
https://sufipathoflove.com/timeline-of-cycles-by-rene-guenon-and-gaston-georgel/
>Krita-Yuga (Golden) – 62,770 B.C. to 36,850 B.C.
>Treta-Yuga (Silver) – 36,850 B.C. to 17,410 B.C.
>Dvapara-Yuga (Bronze) – 17,410 B.C. to 4,450 B.C.
>Kali-Yuga (Iron) – 4,450 B.C. to 2,030 A.D.
Also is this sheikh legit? Was it you who posted a link from his website?

[Anonymous No.18287502]

>>18285961
How do we make a living there? All I have in this life is 1k in crypto and my shitty PC that could sell for maybe another 1k. Do sufi sheikhs take you for free?

[Anonymous No.18287508]

>>18287488
>Kali-Yuga (Iron) – 4,450 B.C. to 2,030 A.D.

I thought it was meant to last hundreds of thousands of years? You telling me the golden age starts in 9 years time?

[Anonymous No.18287556]

>>18277938
>hinduism
like all paganism it's just relativism with a few extra steps

[age No.18287561]

>>18277938
The teachings of Jesus Christ are perfectly compatible with non-duality.

[Anonymous No.18287616]

>>18287508
Did you read the article or Guenon's book traditional forms and cosmic cycles?
He stated that Hindu Rishis deliberately inflated the numbers. However, the exact date is not mentioned by Guenon. 2030 is by some other frenchman named Gaston Georgel.

[Anonymous No.18287689]

>>18287488
I have not done enough research into the Yugas to make an informed conclusion. I have posted links to that site but only because of the fact that Guenon’s Vedanta book is hosted as a pdf on it and is one of the first pdfs for it that come up on google.

[Anonymous No.18287726]

>>18287689
Are you sure you're the same guenonfag that has been posting on /lit/ since antiquity?

[Anonymous No.18288039]

>>18287726

[Anonymous No.18288101]

>>18288039
>filename
I doubt that you are the real guenonfag, because he names his files something like 19844455345 or hksdhfg, and you are phoneposting.
If you truly are guenonfag then, what have you been doing all these years if you don't know enough about the yugas? How long has it been 5 years?

[Anonymous No.18288178]

>>18284611
thank you very much

[Anonymous No.18288227]

>>18287502
No, you find something to work there idk. When Titus Burckhardt went to Morocco, he earned his living from being a shepherd.

[Anonymous No.18288520]

>>18288101
>real guenonfag, because he names his files something like 19844455345 or hksdhfg, and you are phoneposting.
I have always phone- and pc-posted
> what have you been doing all these years if you don't know enough about the yugas?
I know about them obviously, but I just have not studied them enough where I can say with any confidence whose calculation of there date is most correct. I find the metaphysics more interesting to study and the yugas are just part of the background cosmology/mythology which it’s not necessary to study deeply to understand the metaphysical doctrines. One day I’ll look more into it. I have a busy life and just studying the metaphysics + my other reading interests has already been a lot to fit in along with my social life and other hobbies/interests.

[Anonymous No.18289463]

bump

[Anonymous No.18289497]

>>18285832
Would you be christian if Jesus was resurrected?

[Anonymous No.18289632]

>>18289497
No

[Anonymous No.18289873]

>>18282860
>In the Trinity there is a relation of causality, of ontological origin,... but there can't be in satcitananda.
For there to be bliss (ananda) there must be consciousness (cit), for there to be consciousness (cit) there must be being in the first place (sat).

There is indeed a logical relation, from all eternity, between the three, in the same act of existence of God, pure act.

It is the same thing.

[Anonymous No.18289884]

>>18289632
Why

[Anonymous No.18289933]

How do Vedantafags deal wit the question of suffering?

[Anonymous No.18289973]

>>18289933
by denying that good is good (which makes their morality relative)

[Anonymous No.18289985]

>>18289973
god* is good

[Anonymous No.18290138]

>>18289497
It’s impossible for me to fully anticipate how I would react, I don’t suspect that I would be inclined to immediately go out and be baptized but in order to be sure I would probably want to meet him in person and feel his presence myself and see what he was like, and if I did this and was convinced that he truly was Jesus, that wouldn’t make me stop viewing Advaita as true but to me that would just be a confirmation that perennialism is true and that somehow Jesus ties into that. For me Advaita is not a matter of belief but studying Shankara’s works has fundamentally changed how I think about, understand and experience the nature of consciousness or awareness, it’s something that is just self-evidently true for me, once I really understood it I can never un-understand it. The cat cannot be put back in the bag.

[Anonymous No.18290219]

>>18290138
Would u then be more open to the kind of christian reinterpretation of advaita found above?

[Anonymous No.18290281]

>>18290219
I already am, because I already agreed with Guenon that Brahman is the Personality and that He is not “impersonal” because of this and that what westerners mean by impersonal is really just the Personality divested of association with the contingent individuality. I think Upadhyaya actually is coming to the same conclusion as Guenon here and that both are basically correct on this point. I would disagree with attributing volition to the Parabrahman as Upadhyaya seems to do though.

[Anonymous No.18290390]

>>18289933
The Brahma Sutras, which are accepted by all Vedanta schools, say that Brahman is the impartial cause like the sun or rain and that fortune and misfortune in life are determined by one’s karma from past lives, this is compared to how the sun or rain provides nourishment to all plants alike but the possibilities of growth in each plant are determined by that respective seed. So people ultimately bear responsibility for what befalls them and not Brahman. Advaita Vedanta, but not all of the other Vedanta schools, adds the further point that good and evil are ultimately unreal constructs of the human mind or primordial spiritual ignorance (avidya) and that the ultimate reality of Brahman is non-dual and beyond such dual categories, and that the liberated/enlightened man realizes that the soul had never really suffered to begin with anyway but that the suffering was like an unreal dream, arising from a misidentification, as if you had been playing a video game and believing yourself to be the character you were playing, and felt his suffering and pain was yours when it never truly was.

[Anonymous No.18291186]

>>18290390
>as if you had been playing a video game
literal npc

[Anonymous No.18291228]

>>18290390
what do u think of https://www.amazon.com/Advaita-Vedanta-Reconstruction-Eliot-Deutsch/dp/0824802713

[Anonymous No.18291758]

>>18291228
I think it's really good, I haven't read the whole thing but I have read a few chapters on archive.org. It's not a long book and I would have read the whole thing online already if it weren't for that all the pdfs of it online seem to have horrible formatting, which I'm sure the paper-copies and hard-copies don't have. I intend to order my own physical copy of it. The author just died last year.

The author engages with and presents Advaita in that book through the language of western philosophy, and he attempts to isolate and present Advaita as a systematic and coherent philosophical system with its own internal logic and rules, which is helpful for understanding Advaita even if it's not always presented primarily this way in primary source Advaita writings or in other books about Advaita, what the author says is correct and what he says is already found in primary source Advaita texts but in those it's generally heavily interwoven into the theology and into discussions of spirituality, spiritual experience etc instead of being presented from the ground up as a rational philosophical system.

[ReleaseMeFromThisMask-LikeForm !!HraTM3Vvtb/ No.18291760]

>>18291758
Regarding the internal evidences as I say, I totally agree with Nambudripad's observations. Regarding the Christian beliefs, I don't think we have to look far. For example, I just came across a book by a christian scholar who takes the other side of all these arguments and presents evidence to show that Krishna is the truth. Can we say this is hidden inside the Advaita scriptures? Does not the Gita as well say something about the responsibility of our actions on this world?

[Anonymous No.18291771]

>>18291186
You, the soul, the Atman, is not the NPC though, in the metaphor the NPC is what ignorant people mistake themselves to be instead of correctly realizing their own non-NPC nature, which always remains as their real being even when they are mistaken.

[ReleaseMeFromThisMask-LikeForm !!HraTM3Vvtb/ No.18291780]

>>18291771
NPCs and Atpersons, are the mere references to the eternal soul.

Before any term can be applicable in the context of a concept, it should be discussed in relation to that concept. One important point that I have discussed in many of my posts and published articles is the fact that the "true form" of life can only be the reality of the Atman (self) as described above. This concept, that only an Atman is true, is not a mere convenient use of English words.

[Anonymous No.18291861]

>>18277938
>hes still doing it
>hes still using the same pictures
>hes still linking himself the same links

[Anonymous No.18291880]

>>18291861
This one seemed like a tongue in cheek homage to his old ways. He is not as bad as he used to be. I doubt anyone even remembers how bad he was originally when he saw himself as the traditionalist thread policeman sending anyone who disagrees with him to jail.

[Anonymous No.18291893]

>>18291760
>Can we say this is hidden inside the Advaita scriptures?
That what, Krishna is the truth? Advaitins traditionally take Krishna to be a form of the Supreme Brahman that is projected by Brahman's maya into the world for the purposes of the restoration of dharma, "Though I am unborn, of imperishable nature, and though I am the Lord of all beings, yet, governing My own Nature, I am born by My own Maya" - Gita 4.6. They don't say that Krishna as a creature on earth that is possessed of a so-and-so form is the ultimate truth itself but rather that Krishna is a mode or apparatus that the formless undivided Entity reveals or expresses truth through, like a living and breathing scripture. Or did you mean to ask about Christianity being hidden inside the Advaita scriptures? I'm not enough of an expert on Christianity to answer that, but there is a wide range of literature and essays dealing with that topic.
>Does not the Gita as well say something about the responsibility of our actions on this world?
The Gita says that people have a duty or responsibility to follow their dharma, Krishna chastises Arjuna for momentarily shirking his duty as a Kshatriya. The liberated monk who has renounced the world has no duties and is not bound by scriptural injunctions, although his state naturally eliminates the cause (like desire or anger) of anything that might otherwise cause him to violate the ethical injunctions from scripture.

[Anonymous No.18291898]

>>18291861
That's right, and you Buddhist nihilist crypto-materialist faggots better get used to it!

[Anonymous No.18291937]

>>18291861
>>18291898 (me)
Guenonfag here, I didn't post this thread btw, although I have still been here posting about Indian philosophy for years. I rarely in fact create threads anymore, there are enough threads about eastern philosophy and mysticism that get posted often enough by other people that I simply just have to find one if I want to post about these subjects. The Hinduism vs Buddhism debates are a part of board culture now with various memes that have been made about it and whoever created this thread probably made it in reference to that. If I create a thread it's only because I want to discuss a particular detail or point with someone, I don't do it just to open a general discussion since there is already so much of that.

[Anonymous No.18292018]

>>18281144
double dubs checked, many a redditor could benefit from such a realization

[Anonymous No.18292309]

>>18291758
>I think it's really good, I haven't read the whole thing but I have read a few chapters on archive.org
use b-ok.cc my man
everything is there

[Anonymous No.18292481]

First time visitor of /lit/, Surprised to see people read books from my culture too, I'm a Hindu brahmin from India ofc. I thought 4chan hated Indians because /g/ hates us.

[Anonymous No.18292553]

>>18292481
Are you still allowed to kill Dalits with impunity? Or have the SJW refused this right to you?

[Anonymous No.18292827]

>>18292309
ok thanks

[Anonymous No.18292861]

>>18292481
/g/ is just jealous.

[Anonymous No.18293002]

>>18291861
He can’t keep getting away with it!1

[Anonymous No.18293150]

>>18292553
Come on dude we are way past that, we have gone past religion. and Hinduism is a concept not a religion and every one can practice it regardless, caste does not matter.

[Anonymous No.18293152]

This is my first time posting here since 2019. I'm the one who started the whole 'anti-guenonfag brigade' when I posted the first of a series of infographs documenting guenonfag's sperg outs and creepy behavior after mods banned /TG/ ie traditionalist discussion from /lit/ a year earlier, I still have the psd file for it (pic).

I have to say that I'm surprised guenonfag is STILL, after 4 long years, pushing Advaito-Guenonism on this board. That is some serious dedication. I really hope he hasn't been spamming threads on the daily like he used to. To think that it all started from a Kantfag who accused Guenon of being Blavatsky 2.0 and ripping from Kantian paradigms. Unreal.

I also notice that guenonfag still has a grudge against /lit/ buddhists, seems like they've been living rent free in his mind for years now because I remembered him making threads exactly like this where he goes 'hi bros :) tell me about advaita...AND HOW IT REFUTED BUDDHISM HAHA'. People might not know this but guenonfag has always posted sly remarks about buddhism even before trad discussion generals except no one actually gave a shit. All it took was for 1 person years later to point out that Advaita = cryptobuddhism for him to lose his shit and it still rubs him the wrong way.

>>18291898
>>18291937
These 2 posts pretty much tell me that it actually is him (OP) for he would occasionally instigate and shitpost before becoming all serious and humble, dissociating himself from the previous post. You could always tell by the name of the pictures he posted, 1 from an iphone and 1 from a computer. This was done to hide his tracks but he always slips up and outs himself anyway.

I probably won't be posting for a while after this thread, I wish I had time to spectate this curious character's ongoing LARP. Au revoir pour le moment.

[Anonymous No.18293597]

>>18291861
>>18293152
So why does he do it? Whats his goal?

[Anonymous No.18294131]

>>18293597
Crashing this plane of existence with no survivors

[Anonymous No.18294327]

>>18291893
What are u best arguments
Against the idea that my consciousness will die
And the idea that consciousness = brain

[Anonymous No.18294365]

>>18293152
I don't understand the point of your post. You're the one who looks crazy. Ok he does this, and ? It has absolutely no relevance, I expected you to answer his arguments

[Anonymous No.18294433]

>>18294365
Haters of Guenon and guenonfag don't have any relevant arguments, just look at that guy who is spamming "crypto-buddhism", "void", etc. for YEARS. Oh, and btw, he is the same guy who claims that Guenon believed that there was a midget in a cave in Tibet or some shit like that. I know his style very well but idk if he is actually that retarded or just trolling.

[Anonymous No.18294608]

I want to become a Freemason because of Guenon. It is the American tradition

[Anonymous No.18294667]

>>18294608
That says a lot. FM is evil

[Anonymous No.18294765]

>>18281112
...fucking based

[Anonymous No.18294797]

So, in Vedanta, especially Advaita, is it fair to say that there is no help coming? That it is an entirely solo endeavour to understand the truth?

[Anonymous No.18294814]

>>18294667
Ok sounds based. I’m gonna do it

[Anonymous No.18294816]

>>18294608
it's really fucking lame in real life, you won't like it and you won't like the hylic boomers you'll have to hang out with in order to be one

[Anonymous No.18294844]

>>18294816
It is about the initiation. From the traditionalist perspective it doesn't really matter how fallen the actual order is, so long as they have a valid initiation you are better off than a very serious, sincere, dedicated order that lacks a legitimate initiation. This is because initiation changes a person ontologically and can't really be tarnished by the state of an orders members.

[Anonymous No.18294856]

>>18294816
I understand the first year or two at the blue lodge will be cringe, but I’m in it for the American Tradition
>>18294844
Exactly

[Anonymous No.18294986]

>>18294814
Edgy retard

[Anonymous No.18295162]

>>18294365
>I don't understand the point of your post
Just my 2 cents on this schizo's long running forced meme.
>You're the one who looks crazy.
This is another recurring talking point that he brings up, shooting the messenger by painting people who point out his creepy behavior as the 'real' creeps. Its a common deflection tactic.
>Ok he does this, and ?
You don't think waking up every day for four years straight to sperg out on a forum is bizarre? Seems strange that you'd pass it off as something a sane person would do.
>It has absolutely no relevance, I expected you to answer his arguments
I couldn't care less about his 'arguments', and I don't know why you even expected me to answer his babble when you could just do that yourself to him instead of cheer leading from the sideline.

[Anonymous No.18295195]

>>18295162
>You don't think waking up every day for four years straight to sperg out on a forum is bizarre?
It's called a passion

>I couldn't care less about his 'arguments'
So you recognize that your message has no interest and brings absolutely nothing to the discussion, ok

[Anonymous No.18295202]

>>18294797
Yep, it's gnostic/luciferian to the core

[Anonymous No.18295229]

>>18294986
>>18294844
>>18294816
I’m Sicilian. Is there Tradition in the Mafia? There is an initiatic element and it’s often paired with Catholicism

[Anonymous No.18295301]

>>18295195
>It's called a passion
Sorry, are you speaking for him or about him? I'd like guenonfag to answer for himself, not an outside observer thank you.

>So you recognize that your message has no interest and brings absolutely nothing to the discussion, ok
I personally have never cared, other anons can engage with him all they want, and I suspect they have been doing so when I was away. I'm just pointing out a recurring pattern of physcosis with respect to this gentlemen, if you weren't bothered by my post you would have just ignored it and replied to someone who 'brought something to the discussion'.

[Anonymous No.18295308]

>>18293597
I still don't know. Someone told me he tried to spread the 'word' of Guenon through memes and shitposting, because it worked for Trump in 2016 (we also know he's an election tourist who came into our forum around the time Trump announced his run). My gut instinct tells me he found Guenon through Steve Bannon, who was also a fan of him, and was subsequently hooked on Advaita through Guenonian literature and not through the traditional Vedic literature like any curious person would if they wished to get into Advaita or Hinduism for that matter.

[Anonymous No.18295350]

>>18295308
Guenonfag showed me the way. I am eternally grateful to him.

[Anonymous No.18295351]

>>18293152
Guenonfag has pretty much been doing the same song and dance hitherto but with increasing intensity. I think he took a break some time ago but comes around every so often and repeats himself, seems to be a little more serious nowadays despite his alleged bipolarity. Brotherposting (pbuh) was probably the best thing to come out of him.

[Anonymous No.18295360]

>>18293597
>Whats his goal?
Galactic conquest. We are just pawns of Guenonfag.

[Anonymous No.18295363]

>>18295229
>I'm Sicilian
It's over

[Anonymous No.18295365]

>>18295351
>pic
This but unironically

[Anonymous No.18295373]

>>18295363
IM WHITE

[Anonymous No.18295375]

>>18295351
My sides go into orbit everytime I see that pic
I love Guenon fag

[Anonymous No.18295381]

>>18295373
>he still browses /lit/

[Anonymous No.18295388]

>>18295351
That figures as much. Good to know he takes breaks from time to time, I frequent many boards and haven't seen any anon so entirely dedicated to a shitpost this long running. Insane.

[Anonymous No.18295395]

>>18295373
Hmm

[Anonymous No.18295396]

>>18295381
You know, that was originally my thread. I posted something like pic related saying “am I a living meme”
Then Guenonchad one upped me with that picture and took over the thread (of course I had to yield)
Guenonchad, let me become your Schuon or Martin Lings

[Anonymous No.18295402]

>>18295395
Sicilian = Greco-Roman
100% Southern European

[Anonymous No.18295413]

>It's called a passion

[Anonymous No.18295428]

GuenonChad, please advise >>18295229
I want to bring the Mafia tradition into more of the form of Lamaism. I want to get a proper hindu background before diving into Tibetan Buddhism.
Please advise

[Anonymous No.18295439]

>>18295395

>>18295373
You have African feets,sorry,

[Anonymous No.18295455]

>>18295413
we get the same thing on /ck/ only for kids icecream

[Anonymous No.18295461]

>>18295439
Trying to slander the Greco-Roman chads I see, you filthy butter European.
Norwegians are closest to nigger feet

[Anonymous No.18295487]

>>18295395
>>18295439
>>18295461

Replace the ethnicities with personality traits and you have perfect bait to get pics of girls feet.

[Anonymous No.18295494]

[Anonymous No.18295503]

>>18295494
post your perennialist books, fags

[Anonymous No.18295506]

>>18295494
Unfathombly based

[Anonymous No.18295530]

>>18295413
>>18295455
You must respect the sheer will.

[Anonymous No.18295536]

>>18295494
Holy... based!

[Anonymous No.18295543]

>>18295395
>tfw Mongolian

[Anonymous No.18295593]

>>18295494
You are like baby

[Anonymous No.18295604]

>>18295494
>the transformation of nature in art
found it impossible to find a pdf of that

[Anonymous No.18295621]

>>18295593
lmao, wait some time and I will buy more

[Anonymous No.18295631]

>>18295593

[Anonymous No.18295632]

>>18295621
I went from Evola to Guenon tho, so I haven’t gotten through all his books yet. Same goes for Schuon.
But for Evola, I highly recommend Sufi of Rome. It’s like his own Table Talk and it’s an incredibly redpilling book

[Anonymous No.18295635]

>>18295593

[Anonymous No.18295641]

>>18295604
It is hard to find some of his books even in physical format.

[Anonymous No.18295648]

>>18295641
Yes, great shame, but they are generally worth the effort

[Anonymous No.18295677]

How can I practice western yoga in a more Traditional way

[Anonymous No.18295688]

>>18295632
>I went from Evola to Guenon
Same here, I had more books from Evola but I sold them(except Revolt) in order to buy all of Guenon, in less than one month I will have all of his books in english + The simple life of RG. I read most of Evola but I kind of moved forward.

[Anonymous No.18295695]

>>18295593

[Anonymous No.18295707]

>>18295632
>I highly recommend Sufi of Rome
great book, reading it feels like having a comfy conversation with an old friend

[Anonymous No.18295715]

>>18295707
Yeah there was a thread on it like a month ago. One of the best threads in a while

[Anonymous No.18295719]

>>18295715
Do you have the link? was away that month, would be nice to see it

[Anonymous No.18295735]

>>18295719
>>/lit/thread/S18095341

[Anonymous No.18295745]

>>18295735
Many thanks anon

[Anonymous No.18295781]

>>18295688
So what’s next?

[Anonymous No.18295868]

>>18295781
Only God knows what is next. So far it was like this for me: normie - /pol/tard - evolafag - guenonfag and recently I became more interested in Islam, without rejecting Guenon ofc. I am 20 years old but my opinions keep changing fast, I am also a little bit confused about what should I do with my life desu.

[Anonymous No.18295877]

>>18295868
My advice is settle on a Tradition, one that you feel you can settle in for the remainder of your life, and devote yourself to it

[Anonymous No.18295922]

>>18295868
Hmm being this deep as a 20yo is a solid start. I would suggest to learn Latin or a foreign language like French or Italian.
Maybe develop some technical skills so you aren’t a poorfag like Guenon. There is always the Trad /biz/ path of Steve Jobs

[Anonymous No.18295936]

>>18295877
I was thinking about that and I even have a plan in mind but honestly, things are going pretty bad for me right now. I need to get out of this phase but I am very lazy.

[Anonymous No.18295946]

>>18295936
Get /fit/
Your 20s will be 100x more enjoyable if you are in good shape and not fat.
Yoga -> learn Sanskrit
This is what I’m doing right now

[Anonymous No.18295954]

>>18295936
for the time being then focus on getting yourself on your feet, so that later you can devote yourself to your spirtual studies. Also follow the advice of these anons:
>>18295922
>>18295946

[Anonymous No.18295972]

>>18295877
>>18295922
>>18295946
>>18295954
Alright anons, thank you for your advices.

[Anonymous No.18296057]

>>18295868
I am 20 too, and have the same feeling. Reading the crisis of the modern world made me feel bad about my engineering degree, don't know what to do.

[Anonymous No.18296078]

>>18296057
Use to it sustain yourself, economically that is, so you can focus on higher matters

[Anonymous No.18296105]

>>18296078
I used to love it so much and wanted to join academia and become a researcher. But now I realize how profane and damaging this science is to the people and the environment. For example, I had an internship at ABB where they basically plan to develop a VR system for factory workers, so that they can control machines more efficiently by cutting them completely from reality. I fear that working like this will end me up in hell or give me bad karma.

[Anonymous No.18296150]

>>18296057
Maybe find another domain idk. When I finished high school at 18 years old I went to my first uni, quit it after one year, start another one and recently quit that too. I feel like I am done with unis, I went to them only because of my parents and I didn't thought about other alternatives. Now I really don't know what to do, maybe wage cucking during sunmer until I think of something better. I also feel like I want to move from my country but how am I gonna get an income where I go? Maybe I will stay here until I fix my problems and move in a few years, I will see.

[Anonymous No.18296178]

>>18296057
>>18296105
You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty.
Perform your duty equipoised, O Arjuna, abandoning all attachment to success or failure. Such equanimity is called yoga.
O Dhanañjaya, keep all abominable activities far distant by devotional service, and in that consciousness surrender unto the Lord. Those who want to enjoy the fruits of their work are misers.
A man engaged in devotional service rids himself of both good and bad reactions even in this life. Therefore strive for yoga, which is the art of all work.
BG 2:47-50

[Anonymous No.18296213]

>>18296057
If you’re an engineer, look into freemasonry

[Anonymous No.18296234]

>>18295593
This is the most based post in ages

[Anonymous No.18296236]

>>18295593
I kneel

[Anonymous No.18296255]

>>18296178
Not the same anon, but in this way you can justify all bad things, even being a mercenary paid to kill children everyday. It is true that today all activities from which you can earn money are profane, but at least it should be something less destructive.

[Anonymous No.18296274]

>>18296150
Read Steve Jobs and get in the startup game! Trust me, it’s way more fun than uni

[Anonymous No.18296290]

>>18295593
------B------
------A------
B-A-S-E-D
------E------
------D------

[Anonymous No.18296293]

>>18296255
Ugh, no you can’t? Only if you take the quotes out of context. They are not saying “do what thou wilt”, they are saying, do your prescribed duties (dharma) without attachment. Dharma is always good, never evil. But even good creates karmic results that bind you into samsara. They text is saying that the yogi should perform his duty without regard to the results of his karmic activity in order to achieve liberation. It’s not saying lol just do whatever you want.

[Anonymous No.18296298]

>>18295593
>tfw when I was here when this was posted

[Anonymous No.18296313]

>>18296274
Is this some sort of suggestion that you find on /biz/ like investing in crypto? Sounds like a fallacy.

[Anonymous No.18296326]

>>18296313
Bro, there’s no need to go full priestly caste gang. Since you aren’t warrior caste gang, that leaves the third Aryan option of Merchant gang.
Jobs was /trad/ af. Look into it.

[Anonymous No.18296340]

>>18296326
Didnt he die of AIDS?

[Anonymous No.18296346]

>>18296213
Club of Rome was founded by an industrialist (engineer?) and a scientist, and is one of the most sinister organizations to exist on Earth. These people are the root of all evil anti-traditionalism we see in this world stem from their "vision" for the human race. They are the least to know about what it means to be human.

[Anonymous No.18296354]

>>18296326
Ok whatever, I am going outside to smoke a cigarillo, I spent too much time on 4chan today.

[Anonymous No.18296358]

>>18296340
>Didnt he die of AIDS?
Shudra propaganda

He was a fully committed Zen master. He unironically underwent proper initiation but his master said he should stick to the /biz/ world.
The rest is history. Most of the anons ITT are using his technology as I type this.
Make some shit that will further the Trad cause instead of going full Luddite

[Anonymous No.18296363]

>>18296346
Maybe the Club of Rome and the Malthusians are right? The world is overpopulated in the age of quantity. Maybe there simply trying to bring back the reign of quality

[Anonymous No.18296373]

>>18296358
alrighty then

[Anonymous No.18296398]

>>18296363
>Maybe there simply trying to bring back the reign of quality
Only God will do that, after the imminent catastrophe that will bring the end of Kali Yuga. All other attempts to do that are either plebeian illusions or counter initiation.

[Anonymous No.18296406]

>>18296398
>counter initiation
There’s definitely elements of this in the Club of Rome, United Nations, and other globalist institutions.
But Freemasonry is not counterinitiation

[Anonymous No.18296411]

>>18296406
Modern freemasonry is

[Anonymous No.18296432]

>>18296411
Eh not really as this anon says >>18294844

[Anonymous No.18296447]

>>18296432
Kek
Yet it is
Totally
I know the lodges very well and they are behind and support all the dissolving political projects of the counter-traditional world elites

[Anonymous No.18296448]

Some anons seem conflicted about having “mundane” jobs despite being spiritual. Not everyone is cut out for becoming a sannyasin. Mundane life — I believe it’s called householder life in Hindu culture — is not to be frowned upon. The BG teaches that one should perform one’s mundane duties without attachment, always mindful of God, and just that is yoga. Providing material sustenance to oneself and one’s family and contributing to society are the duties of a householder. One should perform them, not as ends in themselves, but as a service to God.

[Anonymous No.18296460]

>>18296448
This

[Anonymous No.18296466]

>>18296406
>But Freemasonry is not counterinitiation
I agree with Guenon that what matters is initiation and not the mentality of the members. But how do we know that freemasonry today has all of the initiatic rites that it used to have? I watched a video about modern anglo freemasonry on youtube and it looked hilarious. I am not denying their current initiation but at the same time I feel like is not 100% safe. Better go with a religion and its initiation like Islam and Sufism.

[Anonymous No.18296467]

the important thing to remember and always keep in mind from Christianity is that a) christianity has all these facets, but b) christianity emphasizes the living of Gods will. As I understand Christ he says in Matthew that it is not for someone seeking the lord in private that he will be saved, but for his acting upon christs teaching. And how can you act upon love alone in your chamber with a bunch of books?

[Anonymous No.18296471]

>>18296447
Well I’m not a Mason nor do I plan on joining, so I don’t care too much. It was just a suggestion for the numbers nerd, since Guenon approves of it.

That said, Evola firmly rejects Freemasonry.

[Anonymous No.18296476]

>>18277985
I think I'm about to do it this way, go with Ramanuja first. I just wanted to ask: given the assumption that his and Shankaras commentaries are different, what should I look out for in Ramanuja?

[Anonymous No.18296484]

>>18295229
Yes, but you have to approach it through Catholic Tradition

[Anonymous No.18296511]

>>18296363
The reasons for the problems of the world will never have a scientific solution, because they are mainly rooted in metaphysics and how we view our relationship with the environment.
Even if they killed us and reduced the population to 500 million like they want, they will never be able to survive the next cataclysm. They are the reason for this mess, someone else will have to come and undo it.

[Anonymous No.18296569]

>>18296511
So what do you think of AI n shit?
How does that fit into the Traditionalist worldview?

[Anonymous No.18296658]

wewh, what a shitshow

[Anonymous No.18297092]

>wewh, what a shitshow

[Anonymous No.18297177]

>wewh, what a shitshow

[Anonymous No.18297277]

>>18296569
I am not an expert on traditionalism and came to this thread to learn, maybe you can ask guenonfag I don't know.
But I personally think that AI is a meme and its research will eventually reach a dead end. AI will never question its own existence or produce any work of art, it will never have feelings or feel resent, because consciousness is not a computation and essentially of divine origin (can't be created). Best they can do is a massive calculator that figures new algorithms by brute force, with the stupidest anomaly crashing the whole system.

[Anonymous No.18297462]

>>18297277
I’m far from being an expert, but as someone who’s done multiple courses and his undergraduate thesis on machine learning, so far I agree with you 100%. The phrase artificial intelligence, which fascinates and even concerns the public, is a huge misnomer and pure false advertising. There is nothing resembling intelligence in so-called artificial “intelligence”, except the intelligence of the programmers and researchers (but then even a tool can be called artificial intelligence). It’s more PR and wishful thinking — powered by science fiction — than an accurate description of the subject.

[Anonymous No.18297517]

>>18297462
https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2019/03/artificial-intelligence-and-magical.html

[Anonymous No.18297529]

>>18295308
>>18293597
Hes pushing reactionary idealism but had to go crypto because people know too much about Evola. Hes doing this to counter interest in dialectical materialism. It started when /lit/ was getting into accelerationism. The plan was to shit up any discussion of theory or philosophy so he could push all the Marxists off the board to make it a safe space for /pol/ to talk about races having different souls.

[Anonymous No.18297535]

>>18294844
Is "High School Graduation" an initiation ritual?

[Anonymous No.18297538]

>>18297277
>>18297462
Based

[Anonymous No.18297557]

>>18295365
>>18291937
And it worked. Leftypol BTFO.
/lit/ is an Esoteric Hitlerite board.

[Anonymous No.18297565]

>>18297529
Then he is /ourguy/
I hereby declare Guenonfag to be the King of /lit/
All hail the King!

[Anonymous No.18297681]

>>18297557
Praise guenonfag (pbuh)

[Anonymous No.18297689]

>>18296476
Ramanuja never wrote any Upanishad commentaries like Shankara, but his writings presuppose a certain level of familiarity with the Upanishads, so if you have not read the Upanishads first I would read either a translation of all of the primary Upanishads first, or the Vishishtadvaita Upanishad commentaries written by Rangaramanuja Muni, and then I would read Ramanuja’s Gita bhaysa, Vedartha Sangraha and then his Brahma Sutra bhasya in that order.

Principal Upanishads with commentary by Rangaramanuja Muni
https://archive.org/details/principalupanishadsaccordingtosrirangaramanujamunivol13drnsanantharangacharyavaishnavaedition/mode/2up

Ramanujacharya’s Bhagavad-Gita commentary
http://www.srimatham.com/uploads/5/5/4/9/5549439/ramanuja_gita_bhashya.pdf

Ramanujacharya’s Vedartha Sangraha
http://www.srimatham.com/uploads/5/5/4/9/5549439/vedartha_sangraha_.pdf

Ramanujacharya’s Brahma Sutra commentary
http://www.public-library.uk/ebooks/06/9.pdf

[Anonymous No.18297741]

>>18297462
>>18297277
Could it be that they are somehow trying to make spirits incubate the AI, not creating consciousness but constructing a suitable body for Jinns/Demons?
I am 100% sure that the elites go back and fourth between the two realms and are basically in constant contact with these creatures.
I recently read Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Seraphim Rose, he talks about UFOs being demons (disguised as highly developed "aliens" from far a away galaxy or some shit) summoned by the elites to usher in the religion of the antichrist and that sci-fi is a way to prepare the masses for it. They can't have a staple existence on the material realm that's why they appear to be flashing in the sky and materialize and dematerialize in an instant. Could AI be an attempt to create a more stable existence for them in this realm?
Is there a connection or am I just schizo? Why are they so confident in their AI? Maybe the Antichrist will be a huge AI with super-human abilities?

[Anonymous No.18297798]

>>18297741
https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2019/01/materialism-subverts-itself.html

[Anonymous No.18297837]

>>18283391
>Guenonfag here
Can I get an invite to the guenonian discord the realness and foundation?
JoJo2001JoJo
(at)protonmail.ch

[Anonymous No.18297856]

>>18297741
>I recently read Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Seraphim Rose, he talks about UFOs being demons (disguised as highly developed "aliens" from far a away galaxy or some shit) summoned by the elites to usher in the religion of the antichrist and that sci-fi is a way to prepare the masses for it.
I too have watched Neon Genesis Evangelion

[Anonymous No.18297876]

>>18297837
is that a thing? if they give you an invite, tell me on this thread

[Anonymous No.18297890]

>>18297856
Is this really what it's about? I swear to God that I have never watched this anime past episode 10 I planed to do it because of the Hegel/Nick Land meme but paused due to exams. If that's the case then this anime is ruined to me now. May my dick fall if I am lying.

[Anonymous No.18297892]

Are you guys on any of those guenonian/perennialist groups on facebook?

[Anonymous No.18297902]

>>18297741
I don’t know about creating vessels for demons, but certainly making man into god by means of transhumanism (ye shall be as gods). In the videogame Xenogears there is a character called Krelian that says something to the effect that “if there is no god in this world, then I will make one myself”. If it were a Hollywood movie I’m sure Jay Dyer would call it predictive programming. The thought is in the air, some pick it up as antennas. I believe some among the elites only seek money and power, but others see the suffering in the world, our state of deprivation, and are angry at god for “not existing”. Seeing as they don’t believe in nothing higher than matter, they seek materialistic solutions, often mockeries of religions’ eschatological hopes. I believe they envision humanity’s future as something of a hive mind, uploaded to a computer. A materialistic mockery of the mystic union.

[Anonymous No.18297935]

>>18297876
I used to be in 2 guenon servers but my account was lost :(

[Anonymous No.18297949]

>>18297741
Pic related

[Anonymous No.18297999]

>>18297890
It is bit more obvious in the manga adaptation what SEELE and NERV are trying to accomplish with the battles between the Angels and the EVAs.

[Anonymous No.18298034]

>>18297902
>I might be going full shizo on this, but this is truly what I believe
I don't believe that the elites are atheists (or at least the very top), I don't even think that jewish "atheist" don't believe in God, they are in a fully conscious rebellion against God and are trying with all their might to "kill" him and destroy all traditions (maybe because God ended their convenant?). I once read about higher and lower Lokas in the hindu puranas, they maybe trying to pulls us down with them into a lower state where they can rule over us for another cycle. Are there any good elites? I don't know. Maybe when one reaches their level of knowledge they have a completely different world view and their actions appear absurd but are actually beneficial like the story of moses and khidr, although I seriously doubt that.
As for transhumanism I don't think that they will advance much either. I recommend you read the emperors new mind by Roger Penrose, a very enlighten fellow.
I used to worry all the time about AI and Elon Musk's crazy brain chip, but I realize now that it's a scam, same as space travel.

[Anonymous No.18298106]

>>18297999
I thought it was a regular mecha anime lol.

[Anonymous No.18298115]

>>18298106
It's Devilman with giant robots and depressed teenagers.

[Anonymous No.18298167]

>>18297949
kek, pretty much. But I disagree with the projector part, these things are real, they steal the souls of redditors and most sciencefags and turn them into basedjacks.

[Anonymous No.18298212]

>>18298034
Does advaita talk about dukkha ?
The buddhist analysis of dukkha resonates so much with me
In the western philosophers Michelstaedter talks well of it
Everything in the phenomenal world is ephemeral
So desire of life, mundane existence itself, is bound to suffering-dissatisfaction

[Anonymous No.18298213]

>>18298115
Should I read the manga or is the anime better?
Man, the Japanese are very creative in weird way. Their anime and games are full of autistic details and great plot lines. Is it the true power of intellectual intuition fueling their creativity?

[Anonymous No.18298229]

>>18298213
Go see Ping Pong the Animation if u want a masterpiece
No joking

[Anonymous No.18298235]

>>18298229
The anime, ofc

[Anonymous No.18298253]

>>18298229
Will definitely watch it thanks fren <3

[Anonymous No.18298259]

good thread

[Anonymous No.18298272]

>>18298213
Devilman has been adapted several times as an anime so the manga is a decent place to start. I don't know that Japanese popular culture is distinctly better or more creative than ours on the whole. There are probably periods where that is more true than others. Certainly at present seasonal anime and manga suffer from the same generic formulaism as hollywood or conglomerated Disney

[Anonymous No.18298374]

>>18298272
I agree with you most anime nowadays is very disappointing, I was memed into watching a couple of shit shows that turned me completely off.
I like to think that each people get their chance at greatness but then fall again to irrelevance.
babylonians, egyptians, greeks, muslims, europeans, americans, japanese, etc, all got a chance and I believe it's natural for ruin to be next for us. Maybe the chinks will be carry the torch but I can't get over the bugman meme it's too real to ignore. Russians like to think that their prime time is coming and that they are the next inheritors of the earth. I find this a lot in the writing of Alexander Dugin.

[Anonymous No.18298511]

>>18298253
No problem fren, u gonna love it i swear. A true masterpiece

[Anonymous No.18298949]

>>18298511
I used to watch many shows with people on rabb.it but now its replaced with shitty kast. It was super comfy back then. Don't know if /a/ still does it.

[Anonymous No.18299552]

>>18296057
20 years old and already an engineer?