/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18274888]

The next real literary "rebels" in this country might well emerge as some weird bunch of anti-rebels, born oglers who dare somehow to back away from ironic watching, who have the childish gall actually to endorse and instantiate single-entendre principles. Who treat of plain old untrendy human troubles and emotions in U.S. life with reverence and conviction. Who eschew self-consciousness and hip fatigue. These anti-rebels would be outdated, of course, before they even started. Dead on the page. Too sincere. Clearly repressed. Backward, quaint, naive, anachronistic. Maybe that'll be the point. Maybe that's why they'll be the next real rebels. Real rebels, as far as I can see, risk disapproval. The old postmodern insurgents risked the gasp and squeal: shock, disgust, outrage, censorship, accusations of socialism, anarchism, nihilism. Today's risks are different. The new rebels might be artists willing to risk the yawn, the rolled eyes, the cool smile, the nudged ribs, the parody of gifted ironists, the "Oh how banal". To risk accusations of sentimentality, melodrama. Of overcredulity. Of softness. Of willingness to be suckered by a world of lurkers and starers who fear gaze and ridicule above imprisonment without law. Who knows.

[Anonymous No.18274903]

>>18274888
Preach

[Anonymous No.18274908]

>>18274888
What is he trying to say?

[Anonymous No.18274936]

Cringe

[Anonymous No.18275043]

Why did he leave us? We need him now more than ever.

[Anonymous No.18275066]

>>18274936
yea dfw was literally cucked into Oblivion when he got boomerpilled by franzen

[Anonymous No.18275074]

such unbearable horseshit. I like the guys writing but new sincerity is retarded

[Anonymous No.18275090]

>>18275074
>risk the yawn, the rolled eyes, the cool smile
There it is right there.

[Anonymous No.18275139]

>>18274888
but he himself was afraid of being melodramatic

[Anonymous No.18276566]

>>18274888
Nice post, David.

[Anonymous No.18276656]

>>18274908
He’s saying that ironic removal from society is fleetingly rebellious— like anything else so overly accepted, it becomes the norm. By this logic, this who will be rebellious in this conception of the world would be what we generally to be the opposite, if only because the snide outsiders have taken over and become entirely mainstream.

[Anonymous No.18276663]

>>18275074
woah, it’s just like DFW said!

[Anonymous No.18276751]

>>18275090
>>18276663
>say people won't like a thing
>people don't like it
>woah, what foresight!
pathetic. new sincerity is retarded because it doesn't engage with any of the philo problems DFW was interested in early on in his career, rather it just retreats and pretends those problems don't exist. it's like a bad reading of wittgenstein.

[Anonymous No.18276901]

>>18276751
It feels like you’re trying to win an argument that doesn’t disagrees with your underlining truth and doubling down because being wrong every once n a while is a spook

[Anonymous No.18276936]

>>18276901
no

[Anonymous No.18276937]

>>18276751
>>say people won't like a thing
That’s probably the most inelegant reduction of the OP passage I’ve ever seen. Congrats on being a dense piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.18276945]

>>18276937
lol cope and seethe

[Anonymous No.18276956]

>>18276751
this guy is sincere
>>18276901
>>18276937
condescending and insincere ironists

[Anonymous No.18277010]

>>18274888
I don't know what you're saying, bit tje prose is kino

[Anonymous No.18277042]

>>18274888
He was right and they're terrible.
Our only hope is that the insincere rebels become more sincere in their insincerity and Renzo Novatore their way out of this clown world.

[Anonymous No.18277069]

>>18276956
based

[Anonymous No.18277105]

>>18276945
>>18276956
>>18277069
Samefag pilled

[Anonymous No.18277149]

>>18274903
>>18274936
>>18275043
>>18275066
>>18275074
>>18275090
>>18276566
>>18276663
>>18276901
>>18276936
>>18276937
>>18276945
>>18276956
>>18277010
>>18277042
>>18277069
>>18277105

[Anonymous No.18277183]

>>18274888
which of his books are worth reading?
I’m going back to college and i just wanna feel motivated and attached to other people in a real way
Is infinite jest worth another try? I’ve attempted twice but only got >200 pages in. I trust you peoples opinion though

[Anonymous No.18277209]

>>18277183
He has plenty of other good writings other than IJ. Consider the Lobster is filled the the most entertaining essays I've ever read. That is, if you want to warm up on Wallace before giving IJ another go.

[Anonymous No.18277362]

>>18277209
thanks for the suggestion!
I feel like i’ve been grabbing some of more lukewarm pieces (second half of oblivion and hideous men) but consider the lobster could be the last straw before i break out the doorstopper.
I’ve got the audiobook kindle and physical so im REALLY hoping to finish it this time

[Anonymous No.18277384]

>>18277362
My first exposure to DFW was discovering his recordings of CtL on YouTube. It's pretty fun to listen to him read too.

[Anonymous No.18277402]

This guy is the epitome of a privliged white uppermiddle-class author. Do we really need another voice like that. I think he really had nothing of value to contribute to the literally landscape because everything he had to say had been said decades before.

[Anonymous No.18277540]

>>18274888
> rebel
it's just Bolshevik garbage
the only people telling you to rebel are jews

[Anonymous No.18277552]

>>18274888
isn't the rebel fetish just crypto-Christian indulgence??
jesus was a gay jew who acted gay and jewish
make a scene because you're a fag
he killed himself because of his repressed homosexuality

[Anonymous No.18277591]

>>18277402
seeing how the suicide rate for uppermiddle white guys is sky rocketing along with a collapse of social support and cohesion probably
seperate the art from the artist though and its a reaction against irony and cynicism I think we all could use that

[Anonymous No.18277599]

>>18274908
In a world of post ironic dullards who can only get excited for the latest flashy displays of hyper violence or pseudo pornography filtered through layers of cynical detachment, it is braver as a creator to create something sincere, something understated and true.

[Anonymous No.18277658]

>>18277599
why is that better?

[Anonymous No.18279027]

>>18277183
broom of the system is fantastic
it will unfortunately always live in the meme IJ colossal shadow

[Anonymous No.18279036]

>>18277658
Truth is eternal anon. The only way to fight fear and lies is with the divine truth.

[Anonymous No.18279084]

>>18277591
How is that bad?

[Anonymous No.18279231]

Developer commentary from the game Superliminal.

[Author here. No.18279391]

>>18276566
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.18279550]

>>18277591
>>18277402
>>18279084

This isn’t twitter

[Anonymous No.18280814]

>>18279036
truth is not eternal nor is it divine

[Anonymous No.18280819]

>>18277105
>>18277149

[Anonymous No.18280840]

Should have read Tocqueville.

[Anonymous No.18280846]

>>18280840
i admire your persistance, tocquevilleposter.

[Anonymous No.18281435]

>>18280846
He's right, Tocqueville's theory of literature said much more than Dfw here, and in much better form. Not to mention 200 years beforehand
>>18278530

[Anonymous No.18283483]

bump

[Anonymous No.18283573]

>>18280814
Demons hands are over your eyes if you have no drive to seek the most of life, which is the truth

[Anonymous No.18283594]

>>18283573
i have a drive to seek the most of life as I see it. it isn't transcendental truth

[Anonymous No.18283630]

>>18274888
Nice digits, and I agree.

[Anonymous No.18283678]

>>18274908
Return to monke.

[Anonymous No.18284680]

I've been reading some short stories by DFW and watching a few interviews, which led me to go ahead and order Infinite Jest the other day.

The idea of irony and sarcasm winning a war against sincerity in all things in life (meme culture is the most distilled example of this, although one can look at deeper trends in life such as the "who cares less wins" aspect in modern relationships of all kinds) is an extremely pertinent issue as the trends that Wallace seemed to identify (human life as ultra-mediated by entertainment) have skyrocketed with the rise of social media.

In trying to get beyond the surface level "internet/social media is bad and like heroin and addictive and ruins your life!!1!" (not saying this isn't true, only irrelevant), I think the motivation behind the ultra sarcasm of human culture today and why these sorts of media are so powerful is pretty obviously tied to the aspect of meaninglessness and existential despair in modern life.

Two guys on this thread have already argued about /why/ authenticity matters in the first place, and the justification given was for the sake of "truth" (>>18279036).

But I think it is important to realize that, as a post-modernist society, the very notion of "truth" and its existence is void, or in a precarious situation at best. The modernist romance and authenticity placed in human progress became mangled and shattered somehow and somewhere along the way until today we have the stark, pessimistic acquiescence of personal, epistemological limits. (Somewhere along the way I'm not sure, but I would start investigating in the direction of the moral collapse of the American youth culture into excess at the late 60s+early 70s)

The question is why seek authenticity or "truth" in the first place when the human condition can only be "solved" with a wry smile and recursive sarcasm? These things are as meaningless as life appears. It's like Camus' Sisyphus without the joy or authenticity he envisions. Where is the incentive to care about these unsolvable issues, when we can just sit down and browse social media or masturbate or eat shitty food?

I guess what I'm trying to ramble towards is the idea that there is an extreme epistemological pessimism that appears unsolvable that really snowballed into the endless, recursive sarcasm and irony that pervades popular culture today. It is perhaps the harrowing realization of this (irreducible, in all likelihood) obstacle that makes the "too cool for anything" and "the lack of seriousness" attitudes so attractive and addictive.

But maybe I am just rambling. In any case, I can't wait to read Infinite Jest when it gets here.