Kraut/lit/ - Comfy Saturday Edition

[Anonymous No.18246084]

What do you read on a comfy Saturday? I've recently read Unterm Birnbaum by Theodor Fontane and found it quite comfy.
Feel free to post your recommendations and talk about German literature and culture!

>Books recommended by anons:
https://pastebin.com/j3KDzJBZ

>Learn German
>Karl Sandberg's German for Reading is still considered to be the best book for acquiring the ability to read German.
https://languagelearning.site/german/german-for-reading/

>The FSI German Basic Course was developed in the 1960s by the US government’s Foreign Service Institute with absolute beginners in mind. It teaches you the necessary basics.
https://archive.org/details/Fsi-GermanBasicCourse-StudentText/Fsi-GermanBasicCourse-Volume1-StudentText

Don't be afraid of using apps like Duolingo or Babbel, they are also great tools, especially for training listening comprehension.

[Anonymous No.18246092]

Here's a chart if you need some inspiration

[Anonymous No.18246170]

>>18246092
nicht schlecht
>im 4hinein
Ösis und Schweizer werden köcheln

[Anonymous No.18246191]

>>18246092
Reminds me that I was planning to read Schillers Räuber and more Lesedramas in general.

[Anonymous No.18246211]

>>18246191
>Lesedramas
Grabbe ist fantastisch, Hannibal und Gotland kann ich nur empfehlen

[Anonymous No.18246335]

>>18246211
Alright thanks I'll check them out.

[Anonymous No.18246369]

Have j*nnies just deleted the posts that were written in German?

[Anonymous No.18246385]

Has anyone heard of this author called 'Adolf Hitler'?

[Anonymous No.18246978]

Bump
What's up fellow Krauts, it's Saturday afternoon, you can't all be at work still

[Anonymous No.18246988]

>>18246092
pretty based list from what I can tell. Am a bit at a loss about what to read next, maybe I'll pick something from it.

Tried to read Fischarts Geschichtsklitterung and got filtered hard.

[Anonymous No.18247125]

>>18246988
>Am a bit at a loss about what to read next
Depends, have you got anything in mind? If not, the books from the chart are all great.
Also, don't worry, everyone gets filtered by Fischart.

[Anonymous No.18247887]

>>18247125
>have you got anything in mind?
Nah, but reading the essentials is always a good idea. Btw do you have any experience with Mittelhochdeutsch? Would be neat to read those in the original.

[Anonymous No.18247991]

>>18247887
>do you have any experience with Mittelhochdeutsch? Would be neat to read those in the original.
Yes, took a few courses in Uni. It's not too hard, it's still German and you can get a pretty good idea what is written even without any prior knowledge. I would recommend buying medieval literature in versions that have both Mittelhochdeutsch and Neuhochdeutsch, so you can get used to the language. If you're interested in Grammar, I can recommend "Einführung in das Mittelhochdeutsche" by Thordis Hennings. For dictionaries I recommend "Kleines Mittelhochdeutsches Wörterbuch", it's a great companion for reading medieval literature.

[Anonymous No.18248014]

>>18247991
>I would recommend buying medieval literature in versions that have both Mittelhochdeutsch and Neuhochdeutsch
That's what I had in mind.
Thanks for the recs, will see if I'll use it. The more I think about it now, the more it promises to be a fun thing, delving into medieval literature.

[Anonymous No.18248030]

>>18246369

[Anonymous No.18248038]

>>18246092
>aka Gymnasialliteratur
Got poisoned for me in school, maybe worth picking up some of these again.

[Anonymous No.18248174]

>>18248014
>it promises to be a fun thing, delving into medieval literature.
It definitely is! I recommend the "Deutscher Klassiker Verlag", they have great editions.

>>18248038
>aka Gymnasialliteratur
In theory maybe, but sadly most schools don't really teach German literature anymore. From this chart I only read Faust for school for example.

[Anonymous No.18248490]

not a schizo but this was an impressive read

[Anonymous No.18248851]

>>18248174
>but sadly most schools don't really teach German literature anymore
What? What do they teach then? Are you talking about American or German schools? I had to read many of those books in the list as a German high schooler.

[Anonymous No.18248863]

>>18248490
I can already guess what it is about. Not in a derogatory way. I have been dismayed on how "gleichgeschaltet" the German press has been on this issue. Why is it impressive?

[Anonymous No.18248882]

>Reclam have not changed their style for over 50 years
The best.

[Anonymous No.18249014]

>>18248851
I'm talking about German school. We've read some Jugendliteratur and some translations of American YA fiction. Our Deutschunterricht was a joke.

[Anonymous No.18249080]

>>18246092
Needs at least 200% more poetry anon.

[Anonymous No.18249265]

>>18249014
Maybe you were not raised in glorious Bavaria.

[Anonymous No.18249344]

>>18249080
>poetry
German poetry deserves a separate chart. So much good stuff. I love Eichendorff and Brentano for example. Hölderlin's poems are also top notch.

[Anonymous No.18249680]

>>18248174
Of the books in that chart we read Werther, Faust and Woyzeck. Nrw btw. Tbh idk where you went to school where you read translations of english language novels in german class lmao that seems extremely unusual

[Anonymous No.18249796]

in terms of fiction I'm currently reading die leiden des jungen werther and as i lay dying by faulkner. I like both a lot.
also why does the gdr anthem fucking bang so much? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYJmGaBMQJ8

[Anonymous No.18250718]

I NEED A PDF OF EUMESWIL RIGHT NOW

[Anonymous No.18250796]

>>18249796
ARBEITER HOERST DU ES NICHT

[Anonymous No.18251728]

Good morning, I'm gonna make me a coffee and read my Agathon now

[Anonymous No.18251788]

>>18249014
I quizzed the Krauts I knew about this once, and they'd all read whole YA novels, excerpts of Faust that they hadn't understood, excerpts of Shakespeare in English class. Like not even whole scenes. Klang noch schlechter als was ich in England erlebt habe, da es bei uns mindestens die Erwartung gab, dass man ein, zwei kurze klassische Romane durchlesen sollte. I suspect the Federal system is to blame for some sort of race to the bottom there.

[Anonymous No.18251810]

>>18249796
Oh you silly boy, you think they had a march as anthem?
The real one is Auferstanden aus Ruinen (it’s better)

[Anonymous No.18251927]

>>18251788
>I suspect the Federal system is to blame for some sort of race to the bottom there.
As usual.
But as a teacher I can also say that many teachers just don't care about German literature and the classics anymore. They see them as a burden a chore to get through, and think that reading Goethe for example ruins reading for the students. It's worrying.

[Anonymous No.18251981]

Since no one reads Jean Paul Richter, darum überantworte ich diese Scheißwelt dem Feuer.

[Anonymous No.18252042]

>>18251981
Which books by Jean Paul would you recommend?

[Anonymous No.18252079]

>>18252042
If you could read just one text, it should be the Speech of the dead Christ.

>And when Christ beheld the grinding convergence of worlds, the torch dance of heavenly will-o'-the-wisps, and the coal banks of beating hearts, and when he beheld how one orb after another emptied forth its ember souls on the sea of the dead, as a water globe scatters floating lights over the waves: he, the highest of finite beings, lifted his eyes sublimely toward Nothing and Void Immensity, saying: "Mute inanimate Nothing! Chill eternal Necessity! Insane Chance! Do you know that which lies beneath you? When will you destroy the edifice and me? -- Chance, do you know when you'll stride with hurricanes through the flurry of stars and extinguish one sun after another, and when the sparkling dew of the stars will be quenched as thou pass? -- How alone each one is in the vast sepulcher of the Universe! Only I am next to myself -- Oh Father! oh Father! where is your infinite breast that I may rest upon it? -- If each self be its own Creator and Father, why can it not be also its own destroying angel? ...

Otherwise read everything. First the stories, then the novels, then the non-fiction.

[Anonymous No.18252115]

>>18249014
>>18251788
u guys went to shitty schools fr

[Anonymous No.18252350]

>>18251788
>>18248174
In high school we had to read Hesse, Siegfried Lenz, Kafka and some mind-numbingly boring post-war/gdr poetry.

Did anyone else here have Faust in fucking middle school? I was probably in 9th class when we discussed it and I just don't get why they picked such a notoriously difficult text at such a young age. I remember feeling overwhelmed and treating it like just more stupid homework like everyone else in the class. I wish I had appreciated it more back then but desu I was just a stupid 15 y/o, I was only concerned with boobs and anime. Why did they think that my mind had any room for one of the most complex works of literature?

[Anonymous No.18252359]

>>18249680
>Nrw btw. Tbh idk
Jesus fucking christ anon

[Anonymous No.18252441]

>>18252350
>mind-numbingly boring post-war/gdr poetry.
There can be no poetry after Auschwitz

[Anonymous No.18252484]

>>18248174
>Deutscher Klassiker Verlag
they look really nice, thanks for that tip.

>most schools don't really teach German literature anymore.
can only concur. Had Agnes, Homo Faber and Dantons Tod as Abilektüren - and as if to rub it in, they were treated in that order. I recall our teacher saying we would take Agnes sentence by sentence, which thereby turned out the only book completely read; Homo Faber was dealt with much faster; Dantons Tod was only taken by few excerpts.
Boy was I taken aback when I finally came around reading Dantons Tod not to long ago.

[Anonymous No.18252642]

>>18249265
Everyone knows bavaria has the highest education standards, with seething Hamburg trying to compete and Berlin being at the absolute bottom.

[Anonymous No.18252693]

>>18252484
>excerpts
I don't understand why teachers let their students read excerpts when there are enough short novels that are between 20 and 40 pages long. Or poetry for that matter.

[Anonymous No.18252768]

I remember reading a novella in school, but I can't recall neither its name nor its author, but it must have been at least 100 years old.

It's about a girl residing at a hotel together with a rich old man known to her (secretly broke) family. At the beginning she receives a letter in which her mother tells her to get a loan from the guy, no matter what. Turns out he wants to see her naked.

Does this plot ring a bell for anyone? It wasn't even all that good, but it's driving me crazy that I cannot remember the name.

[Anonymous No.18252781]

>>18252768
It's Fräulein Else by Arthur Schnitzler

[Anonymous No.18252783]

>>18249796
It's not their anthem, that would be "Auferstanden aus Ruinen", also a banger ;-)

[Anonymous No.18252816]

>>18252781
Speaking about Schnitzler, I wanna recommend "Spiel im Morgengrauen"

[Anonymous No.18252821]

>>18252781
Thanks! I actually have that at home, and just didn't get around to open it yet. And now it turned out I've already read it.

[Anonymous No.18252823]

>>18252350
>Did anyone else here have Faust in fucking middle school?
Not Faust but many other examples. The worst was Dürrenmatt and Kant in 7th grade where nobody understood anything. In higher classes we often had more modern literature, which was very easy but also the classics like Goethe, Schiller or Lessing.
>mind-numbingly boring post-war/gdr poetry.
The worst of all.

[Anonymous No.18253316]

>>18252781
just read it, reminds me of Leutnant Gustl, which was also great. Else, I think I've read Sterben and Traumnovelle (was I caught off guard watching Eyes Wide Shuts not long after) - Schnitzlers stories are fun.

[Anonymous No.18253327]

>>18252642
>Berlin being at the absolute bottom.
why's that? because of leftists and muslims?

[Anonymous No.18253519]

>>18253316
>Traumnovelle
I think I was filtered by the Traumnovelle. What the hell was the point of it all?

[Anonymous No.18253531]

>>18252359

[Anonymous No.18253707]

>>18252823
>Dürrenmatt
>nobody understood anything
legit retarded.

[Anonymous No.18253955]

Why is Adalbert Stifter so underrated?

[Anonymous No.18254054]

>>18253327
exactly

[Anonymous No.18254098]

>>18253955
Because he bores people.

[Anonymous No.18254109]

>>18253707
>Dürrenmatt
I only read one of his books. It's about the only time I would use the word "pretentious" without feeling like I might have got filtered on the sly. Was just a detective story with some grandstanding speeches about evil and a highly contrived challenge to morality tacked on.

[Anonymous No.18254124]

I started Brief an den Vater yesterday.

I study Germanistik in Denmark.

[Anonymous No.18254125]

>>18251788
>>18252350
From the chart my class and other classes had to read Galotti, Werther, Faust, Maria Stuart, Woyzeck, Effi Briest, Katharina Blum at least and much more other classics. We even read Nietzsche.

However, as a rebellious young boy me and most others made it a point of pride not to read a damn fucking line of any of these dry books and try to get away with as little work as possible. So it was a complete waste. I am only now slowly rediscovering all of these books.

[Anonymous No.18254132]

>>18246084

I've been reading some post-war german lit lately. Handke, Sebald and Bernhard. Anyone else?

[Anonymous No.18254147]

>>18254124
Btw this this was the curriculum in my second semester:
>Nathan der Weise
>Die Leiden des jungen Werthers
>Bahnwärter Thiel
>Stopfkuchen
>Im Westen Nichts Neues
>a Minnelied, a few short stories and a bunch of poems including Mondnacht and Am Turme

[Anonymous No.18254158]

>>18248174
https://www.isb.bayern.de/schulartspezifisches/materialien/lektuere-vorschlaege-deutsch/
These are the suggestions for Deutschunterricht in Bavaria. Pretty reasonable list if you ask me. Too bad it is G8, G9 is probably even better. They made a lot of cuts for G8.

[Anonymous No.18254193]

>>18254132
>Handke, Sebald and Bernhard
These three insufferable pricks are probably the worst that post-war German literature has to offer.

[Anonymous No.18254195]

>>18254147
>Stopfkuchen

[Anonymous No.18254205]

>>18254132
Yeah, Handke pisses me off no end, but Bernhard is hilarious and Sebald was a god. I've spent quite a long time on short story writers like Böll, Aichinger, Lenz. The latter is good clean fun, a real knack for visual scene setting, though the dialogue is atrocious.

[Anonymous No.18254210]

>>18254193
>Textbrunzer

[Anonymous No.18254256]

>>18254147
Not bad. I'd exchange Remarque for Jünger, but I've seen worse curriculums. Can you understand the Minnelieder? I take it German isn't your native language? Understanding Mittelhochdeutsch is definitely harder for non native speakers I assume.

[Anonymous No.18254326]

>>18254256
I understand Mittelhochdeutsch if I read slowly, to me it's about as difficult as reading modern Swiss German. Some of my classmates took the easy way out by reading a translation into modern German but the original really wasn't that hard.
Danish is my native language and I was B1 in German when I started university.

[Anonymous No.18254632]

>>18254109
His stuff really is nothing deep, he just wrote some funny "oh life is so absurd"-type plays with moral messages a high schooler could come up with. I thought you would've read "Besuch der alten Dame" or "Die Physiker", though I have to confess, his crime novels are terrible and especially terribly boring (though I did find Das Versprechen quite funny with the twist in the end, otherwise not so much.

[Anonymous No.18255220]

>>18254632
>crime novels
Are there any good and profound crime novels though?

[Anonymous No.18255634]

Does any good German gay literature exist?

[Anonymous No.18255892]

>>18251927
Why do they think that? Wasn't Goethe hugely influential in the late 18th to early 19th century in Germany, or did my professor lie about that?

[Anonymous No.18256270]

>>18255892
(not him but) your professor didn't lie. Goethe and Schiller were probably the most influential German writers ever and the schools know that. I guess what that anon is trying to say is that teachers are giving up on the curriculum because they don't think that it has the positive effect on students that it's supposed to have. Apparently teenagers that grow up on cyberspace and all of its addictive mechanisms don't really care about high-brow literature from centuries ago, who would have known.
Regardless, the German school system in general is pretty shit and the main reason a reform hasn't happened is because it protects the interests of bourgeois parents who don't want their precious only-child to go to school with dirty working class kids. Germany has all the material resources to adapt the finnish school system which has proven to be superior time and time again to those of the rest of the world but politicians and their lobbies don't want to hear any of it.
Not to mention that teachers are vastly underpaid for the amount of stress that they're going through which causes lack of staff (big shocker, I know), which ultimately results in under-qualified "Quereinsteiger" taking the role instead, because apparently they can't find a decent job in their own field.
If not even a bloody pandemic can bring the government to fix the working conditions for nurses in hospitals then I have only one bleak idea of what the future holds for German schools.

[Anonymous No.18256296]

>>18256270
Good analysis.
> the main reason a reform hasn't happened is because it protects the interests of bourgeois parents who don't want their precious only-child to go to school with dirty working class kids.
This part holds true for Austria as well, even though in the last years they seem to make small steps in the right direction.

[Anonymous No.18256305]

>>18256270
>Regardless, the German school system in general is pretty shit
What? How is it shit? I consider myself blessed to have been part of this system.

[Anonymous No.18256516]

>>18256296
>Austria
Austria's school system is a joke, every reform of the last 20 years made it worse. The new reforms leave even less space for teachers to teach what they think is right. The goal is to make teachers slaves who only work off a list of checkpoints the state gives them. And don't even get me startet on the Zentralmatura which is essentially teaching for the test, but for four fucking years. Literature doesn't even have a place in a system with Zentralmatura.

[Anonymous No.18256681]

>>18255634
Tod in Venedig could count perhaps?

[Anonymous No.18256764]

>>18246092
>>18248174
>In theory maybe, but sadly most schools don't really teach German literature anymore. From this chart I only read Faust for school for example.
Jesus.
We read a decent chunk of that list: Emilia Galotti, Werther, Faust I, Der zerbrochene Krug, Woyzeck, multiple stories by Keller, Effi Briest, and Katharina Blum.
In addition we read some other books by authors on the list: Hauptmann's Bahnwärter Thiel, Frisch's Homo Faber, Kehlmann's Vermessung der Welt, and, of course, poetry by Schiller (though none of his plays if I remember right). I'm also pretty sure we read something by Hofmannsthal and by Eichendorff but I can't quite remember what it was. I also can't recall if/what we read of medieval literature; I feel like we read at least excerpts of some of the books on there though.

Of all of the above, I think Katharina Blum was the only one I didn't like. A writer that is not on that list, that we also read and I absolutely couldn't stand, is Bertold Brecht. I don't think I ever read anything that felt as much like being lectured directly by an author. If I remember right, at the end of Der Gute Mensch von Sezuan there is actually a character on the stage asking if these people are really to blame and if it's not rather the whole system that's at fault. Don't think I ever read anything that felt as much like completely unabashed propaganda.

[Anonymous No.18258019]

>*
So... is this the gender-neutral solution in German? Don't you guys have a neuter gender, why aren't they using that

[Anonymous No.18258692]

>>18256764
>Of all of the above, I think Katharina Blum was the only one I didn't like
Why's that?

>Brecht
He really is bad, I don't know why he is still taught at schools. Most of his works already feel horribly dated.

>>18258019
>Don't you guys have a neuter gender
Nouns have fixed genders, you can't just change them. So what braindamaged people do is just cram both genders into one word. The * is just their newest darling. We've already had
>SchülerInnen
>Schüler/innen
>Schüler.innen
>Schüler:innen
>Schüler_innen
And my personal favorite
>SuS (Schüler und Schülerinnen)

[Anonymous No.18258723]

>>18256764
As an American I wasn't sure if this was normal and we're horribly behind, or your school just did fantastic. However, >>18258019 shows that it's not all doing so good over by you either. :(

[Anonymous No.18258919]

>>18258692
Brechts poetry is amazing though.

[Anonymous No.18259159]

>>18258919
Eh. He has some good stuff, like Die Kindsmörderin Marie Farrah. Or this one:

>Den Nachgeborenen

>Ich gestehe es: ich
>Habe keine Hoffnung.
>Die Blinden reden von einem Ausweg. Ich
>Sehe.

>Wenn die Irrtümer verbraucht sind
>Sitzt als letzter Gesellschafter
>Uns das Nichts gegenüber.

I mean, it's nice. But it's not a great poem. I'd barely call it a poem at all. It's just sentences strung together with some enjembements. Brecht had a sense for good lines, but it's the stuff around those singular good lines that was kinda lacking. So sometimes he just left it at those lines. On top of that his meter was also lacking, when he chose to apply it. He wasn't exactly a poet.

[Anonymous No.18259257]

>>18259159
Oh how wrong you are, atleast in parts. His later poems are certainly very prosaic and headline-like. One can like that, but one does not have to. I think "just sentences strung together with some enjembements" falls short of the mark, at least most of the time. There's a bit more to it than that. These poems could best be equated with biblical poetry – meaning and syntax are moved very close together. But I'm just restating what Brecht himself wrote about this kind of poetry.

I was referring to his early poems, which are among the most beautiful I have read in the German language. Not beautiful in the prophetic Hölderlin way, but in the light-footed Heine way. What you call "lack of metre" is lightness, is smoothness, is the difficult attempt to make the German language supple - not like Heine, who let something of Parisian French flow into German, but by drawing on everyday life, on simple folk songs, in which German flows differently, more fluidly, than in written German.

Everyone knows the poems, but I post them anyway:

Die Liebenden

Seht jene Kraniche in großem Bogen!
Die Wolken, welche ihnen beigegeben
Zogen mit ihnen schon als sie entflogen
Aus einem Leben in ein anderes Leben.
In gleicher Höhe und mit gleicher Eile
Scheinen sie alle beide nur daneben.
Daß so der Kranich mit der Wolke teile
Den schönen Himmel, den sie kurz befliegen
Daß also keines länger hier verweile
Und keines anderes sehe als das Wiegen
Des andern in dem Wind, den beide spüren
Die jetzt im Fluge beieinander liegen:
So mag der Wind sie in das Nichts entführen.
Wenn sie nur nicht vergehen und sich bleiben
So lange kann sie beide nichts berühren
So lange kann man sie von jedem Ort vertreiben
Wo Regen drohen oder Schüsse schallen.
So unter Sonn und Monds verschiedenen Scheiben
Fliegen sie hin, einander ganz verfallen.
Wohin ihr? - Nirgend hin. Von wem davon? - Von allen.
Ihr fragt, wie lange sind sie schon beisammen?
Seit kurzem. - Und wann werden sie sich trennen? - Bald.
So scheint die Liebe Liebenden ein Halt.

[Anonymous No.18259266]

Erinnerung an die Marie A.

An jenem Tag im blauen Mond September
Still unter einem jungen Pflaumenbaum
Da hielt ich sie, die stille bleiche Liebe
In meinem Arm wie einen holden Traum.
Und über uns im schönen Sommerhimmel
War eine Wolke, die ich lange sah
Sie war sehr weiß und ungeheuer oben
Und als ich aufsah, war sie nimmer da.

Seit jenem Tag sind viele, viele Monde
Geschwommen still hinunter und vorbei
Die Pflaumenbäume sind wohl abgehauen
Und fragst du mich, was mit der Liebe sei?
So sag ich dir: Ich kann mich nicht erinnern.
Und doch, gewiß, ich weiß schon, was du meinst
Doch ihr Gesicht, das weiß ich wirklich nimmer
Ich weiß nur mehr: Ich küsste es dereinst.

Und auch den Kuss, ich hätt' ihn längst vergessen
Wenn nicht die Wolke da gewesen wär
Die weiß ich noch und werd ich immer wissen
Sie war sehr weiß und kam von oben her.
Die Pflaumenbäume blühn vielleicht noch immer
Und jene Frau hat jetzt vielleicht das siebte Kind
Doch jene Wolke blühte nur Minuten
Und als ich aufsah, schwand sie schon im Wind.
Vom Schwimmen in Seen und Flüssen

Im bleichen Sommer, wenn die Winde oben
Nur in dem Laub der großen Bäume sausen
Muß man in Flüssen liegen oder Teichen
Wie die Gewächse, worin Hechte hausen.

Der Leib wird leicht im Wasser. Wenn der Arm
Leicht aus dem Wasser in den Himmel fällt
Wiegt ihn der kleine Wind vergessen
Weil er ihn wohl für braunes Astwerk hält.

Der Himmel bietet mittags große Stille.
Man macht die Augen zu, wenn Schwalben kommen.
Der Schlamm ist warm. Wenn kühle Blasen quellen
Weiß man: Ein Fisch ist jetzt durch uns geschwommen.

Mein Leib, die Schenkel und der stille Arm
Wir liegen still im Wasser, ganz geeint
Nur wenn die kühlen Fische durch uns schwimmen
Fühl ich, daß Sonne überm Tümpel scheint.

Wenn man am Abend von dem langen Liegen
Sehr faul wird, so, daß alle Glieder beißen
Muß man das alles, ohne Rücksicht, klatschend
In blaue Flüsse schmeißen, die sehr reißen.

Am besten ist´s, man hält´s bis Abend aus.
Weil dann der bleiche Haifischhimmel kommt
Bös und gefräßig über Fluß und Sträuchern
Und alle Dinge sind, wie´s ihnen frommt.

Natürlich muß man auf dem Rücken liegen
So wie gewöhnlich. Und sich treiben lassen.
Man muß nicht schwimmen, nein, nur so tun, als
Gehöre man einfach zu Schottermassen.

Man soll den Himmel anschauen und so tun
Als ob einen ein Weib trägt, und es stimmt.
Ganz ohne großen Umtrieb, wie der liebe Gott tut
Wenn er am Abend noch in seinen Flüssen schwimmt.

---

Their flaws are their the beauty aswell.

[Anonymous No.18259272]

>>18259266
Shit, I fucked up the spacing. "Vom Schwimmen in Seen und Flüssen" is the title of the third poem.

And the last sentence is supposed to read: Their flaws are their beauty aswell.

[Anonymous No.18259402]

>>18259257
>>18259266
Eeeeeh. Listen, I don't hate this. Vom Schwimmen in Seen und Flüssen is especially nice. But there is a certain, for lack of a better word, Holprigkeit to his meter. It doesn't always seem like he has a strong grasp on it, and he fills space with empty syllables. And it doesn't always read as if it's intentional. For example "Wenn sie nur nicht vergehen und sich bleiben" just isn't a good line, neither when it comes to its meter with how it stresses "und" nor in its meaning with how it basically repeats itself without adding onto what was said before. On top of that, Brecht's vocabulary isn't particularly deep.
There is a certain simplistic charm to it, but I really wouldn't call Brecht's poetry "amazing".

[Anonymous No.18259471]

>>18248174
Austrian anon here, I only had to read Herrndorfs 'Tschick' and Dürrenmatts 'Die Physiker', and I skipped both...

[Anonymous No.18259481]

>>18259471
Physiker is pretty good though, you should dig out that book and give it a read. It's only like 100 pages or so anyway.

[Anonymous No.18259496]

>>18258019
Because it's not about equal representation; it's about preferring women.

[Anonymous No.18259577]

>>18259471
I don't even bother with bestsellers desu

[Anonymous No.18259582]

>>18258692
when the schüler und schülerinnen are SuS

[Anonymous No.18259800]

>>18259582
Lehrer und Lehrerinnen are LuL.
It would be funny if it weren't so sad

[Anonymous No.18259999]

>>18248174
NDL Dozent here. I can confirm that most ersties these days rarely know more than Faust, die Verwandlung and maybe some basic YA Novels like Tschick. It's either the abiturienten that are becoming increasingly dumber each semester or the german high school education is becoming worse and worse each year (probably a bit of both)

[Anonymous No.18260059]

>>18259481
We eventually watched a starting of it in theater, it was p interesting, i might give it a try fren

[Anonymous No.18260337]

>>18254109
Der Richter und sein Henker was a fun read for me, while taking a huge shit. That book has like only 90 Pages and most of my class couldn't be bothered to read it.

[Anonymous No.18260382]

>>18246084
Had to read that book and really didnt like it too much (prob because I was forced to read it).
Currently reading Kafka short stories while trying to muster the willpower to finally read "Jenseits von Gut und Böse"

[Anonymous No.18260434]

>>18259402
>It doesn't always seem like he has a strong grasp on it (the metre), and he fills space with empty syllables. And it doesn't always read as if it's intentional.
Breaking the metre and being holprig is part of his poetics. He stands in the tradition of Wedekind and the other cabaret-balladeers. I don't want to persuade you to like the poems, but the bumpiness is deliberately set for sure, proveably thought out theoretically from the beginning.

Bluntly put: where the perfumed symbolist builds his well-rounded verses, Brecht writes like the people chatter and sing: unpolished, raw.

One of the greats.

...
Drei Tage, dann mußte alles sich zeigen:
Erde gibt Schweigen und Himmel gibt Ruh.
Einer ritt aus mit dem, was ihm zu eigen:
Mit Erde und Pferd, mit Langmut und Schweigen
Dann kammen noch Himmel und Geier dazu.
Drei Tage lang ritt er duch Abend und Morgen
Bis er alt genug war, daß er nicht mehr litt
Als er gerettet ins große Geborgen
Todmüd in die ewige Ruhe intrit.

[Anonymous No.18260485]

>>18260434
Sorry, but then we just have to agree to disagree. That poem is nothing I would consider of any greats. How old was he when he wrote this? Because without even trying to sound like an arrogant prick, that reads like something I would have written in my late teenager years.

I don't try to shit on your parade, if you enjoy Brecht you enjoy Brecht, but that's just not a particularly impressive or interesting poem.

[Anonymous No.18261590]

>>18258692
>SchülerInnen
>Schüler/innen
>Schüler.innen
>Schüler:innen
>Schüler_innen
reminds me of the different terms for Ausländer we've been through. The ÖR now uses Menschen mit Migrationsgeschichte.

[Anonymous No.18261972]

>>18261590
Thank god I'm brown enough to say kanake.

[Anonymous No.18262394]

>>18254147
Lineman Thiel is suicide tier lit, dont read if depressed

[Anonymous No.18262487]

>>18246092
I've read some Max Frisch, how does Stiller stack up to his other novels? Is it really his best?

[Anonymous No.18262782]

>>18249265
This. I read all the works of Mann by age 18.

[Anonymous No.18263958]

>>18260382
What about Zarathustra? I think they complement each other well.

[Anonymous No.18265127]

what the fuck

[Anonymous No.18265249]

>>18246092
>Effi Briest
>not Der Schimmelreiter

[Anonymous No.18265543]

>>18262487
I think Stiller is his best works, Homo Faber and Gantenbein are also good. His later works are weird though

>>18265249
I stopped reading Schimmelreiter halfway through because I found it too boring. Did I get filtered?

>>18265127
"birth control" is a euphemism anyway

[Anonymous No.18265800]

>>18265543
>I found it too boring. Did I get filtered?
The story is slow if you are used to rapidity. Jedoch: if you like clean, expressive prose, you're missing out or had false expectations / we're focused on the weaker aspects of the story. The prose glides like a master's brush – and then the horror of the images hits you like a Donnerschlag.

[Anonymous No.18265847]

>>18265127
>antibabypillen

[Anonymous No.18265859]

This novella is positively lynchian.

[Anonymous No.18265883]

What's your favorite poem aus der Klassik/Sturm und Drang?
For me, it's definitely pic related.

[Anonymous No.18265928]

>>18259999
What uni are you teaching at?

Recently I read Faust I again for the first time aftwr school and came away mildly disappointed. It felt like patchwork at times and some rhymes were pretty cringe, too.

[Anonymous No.18265959]

>>18265928
Anon, it IS a patchwork, Goethe deals with a lot of different stuff. He manages to tie it all together via the greater narrative of Faust's striving though. Did you read an annotated version, or just the flat text?

[Anonymous No.18266044]

>>18265959
I got Albrecht Schöne's two volume edition but mostly stayed away from the commentary.
>tie it all together
See, that's where I disagree. Scenes don't really flow into each other. He touches upon a lot of things, sure, but it's mostly background noise and I was left wanting more... I'm gonna be honest here, I don't think I really 'get' the book or maybe I got too enamored with my preconceptions and failed to keep my modern sensibilities in check... stuff like the streets and the students partying just didn't feel very funny or clever. I really liked the ideas and language at first, but my aporexiatiin steadily dropped off the further I read. Now, I'm not saying it sucks, I liked it, but it was a very bumpy ride. Pretty 'ernüchternd'. There's so much pontential in his Faust character, but he ends up bumbling through mostly mundane scenarios. I have little idea what to make of Walpurgisnacht, seemed like he made fun of some contemporaries, references that don't work as well anymore. Maybe the 'uncensored' version will be better, but I doubt it's gonna be shocking in any way. To me it seems like Faust is very much confined by its time, however much it tries to break free of it. Sorry, I'm rambling. I just want to bounce ideas off of someone else, without being chided for not seeing the apotheosis of German literature. At the same time I'd like to be proven wrong, and maybe I will be, given time - I adore Goethe's Werther... Oh, full disclosure: I had to confirm afterwards that Faust and Grete had sex. Yes, I could have been more attentive, but it's partly a fault of Goethe - you CAN read the last scene as Grete suffering mere delusions. Compare this to Marquise von O. were a mere dash marks rape, but the rest of the novella can not be misunderstood.

book recommendation:
>Das Fräulein von Scuderi (E.T.A.Hoffmann)
short and sweet novella, arguably one of the first mystery crimes.

[Anonymous No.18266109]

>>18265800
>if you are used to rapidity
I wouldn't say that, I finished Lohenstein's Cleopatra, which is famously boring, not too long ago. I just didn't care for the protagonists of the Schimmelreiter. But I will give it a second try, you're making a good case for the book.

>>18265859
I love Sandmann. E.T.A. Hoffmann was a pioneer

[Anonymous No.18266136]

>>18266044
Honestly, just skim the commentary. There is a lot of density to Faust that will go over your head. For example, the Weinkeller Is Mephistopheles showing faust "die kleine Welt", while the immediately following Hexenküche is him showing Faust "die große Welt" - as it was agreed upon in their contract (or rather, their bet). There is a strong theme of dualism in Goethe's Faust - Faust himself notes that there are two souls in his chest, and the story is mostly about him trying to balance them out. Which he absolutely fails at. Note how he never manages to see Gretchen as Gretchen. She is always either an angel or a puppet to him, either an absolute ideal of his mind or an object of his lust.
This sense of duality permeates the work. There is the always serious and brooding Faust and the playful and knowing Mephistopheles. There is the natural, real world, and there is the imaginary world of magic and spirits. There is the Gelehrtendrama and the Gretchendrama. There is the artificial Faust, removed from humanity after dealing with the devil and drinking the potion, and the natural and quite human Gretchen. There is the dear lord of creation, and there is "der Geist, der stets verneint". Later on in Faust 2 there is the discussion between the philosophers who either think the world is made of water or that it is made of water. There is the modern, northern, male, German Faust and the ancient, southern, female, Greek Helena. (Seriously, read Faust 2, it is absolutely great. Though again, you need a commentary and some guidance to make your way through the text.)

[Anonymous No.18266142]

>>18266136
>who either think the world is made of water or that it is made of water
one of those "waters" needs to be "fire".

[Anonymous No.18266167]

>>18246084
kraut """"""""""""""""""""""""""Literature""""""""""""""""""""""""""
this post was made by the hispanic gang

[Anonymous No.18266176]

>>18266044
I see where you're coming from. Faust I can seem disconnected and even random at times. I'd really recommend reading Faust II (read the commentary too). It ties it all together. Despite what most people say I think you can't and shouldn't read Faust I without Faust II.

[Anonymous No.18266179]

>>18266136
Thank you, anon. Have you read Narziss and Goldmund? It also deals with the duality of man. Highly recommended.

[Anonymous No.18266220]

>>18266167
Have the spanish even written any book aside from the windmill fighter and century of sollitude?

[Anonymous No.18266235]

>>18266167
¡Cállate, pendejo!

[Anonymous No.18266244]

>>18266179
No, I must admit I have Hesse still ahead of me. I think I read Unterm Rad in school but only remember hating it (mostly because I was a student and was forced to read it). Thanks for the rec.

>>18266176
It's good to see the recent appretiation for Faust II around here.

[Anonymous No.18266262]

>>18266044
>Das Fräulein von Scuderi
I dunno bro. As a student of the language that book was pretty easy to read, but it's really just pulp nonsense from an earlier age, lurid and contrived.

[Anonymous No.18266310]

>>18265883
Don't know if I'd call it my favourite, but I like Herder's poetry.

[Anonymous No.18266535]

Everyone knows their Goethe and Schiller, but what about the other Weimar Klassiker? Some people have read a bit of Herder, but I don't think I even know anything that Wieland wrote. Should I look into Herder and Wieland other than to gain a context for Goethe and Schiller?

[Anonymous No.18266570]

>>18266535
Wieland's letters are funny. For example, letters 2 and 3 in the second volume, where he asks Zimmermann to criticise his Cyrus and then calls him a half-wit and makes fun of his criticism (and rightfully so). Wieland's prose is flawless and marmoreal. Herder is not to be despised either, but more in a tempestuous fashion. Both are bathed in ancient humanity.

[Anonymous No.18266610]

>>18266535
Wieland is great, he is way more than just context für Goethe. His Agathon is a masterpiece which deals with themes of philosophy and the enlightenment, and is also one of the earliest Bildungsromane. I can't recommend it enough.

[Anonymous No.18267537]

>>18266535
Here's a better question, or a question atleast as good as yours, maybe of a little less significance: Why is nobody reading Leo Perutz? If there is a writer who combines high art and effective pulp, he's it. For heaven's sake, even Herr Wiesengrund thought that Meister des Jüngsten Tages is genial.

[Anonymous No.18267845]

>>18267537
I find it interesting that books by Jewish authors from the 20s have such a distinct feel to them. Kafka, Schnitzler, Perutz and others all feel kinda similar

[Anonymous No.18267889]

>>18252816
Um Geld spielen was quite the thing back then, wasn't it?

[Anonymous No.18268125]

>>18267889
It was a pain reading Spiel im Morgengrauen, I wanted to scream at Kasda numerous times. Why didn't he just stop playing??

[Anonymous No.18269719]

bump