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/lit/ - Literature

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18236247 No.18236247 [Reply] [Original]

So did you actually read all 3 of them?

>> No.18236256
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18236256

Nah. Why should I?

>> No.18236260
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18236260

>>18236247

>> No.18236265

IJ lies untouched, Ulysses was too much work to get through with my ESL English, Gravity's Rainbow is American and so most likely second-rate.

>> No.18236273

>>18236247
Yes, they're all phenomenal

>> No.18236281

Yes. None of them are bad books but IJ doesn't really belong there, Ulysses and GR both being contenders for the single best literary work from their respective countries.

>> No.18236283

>>18236265
where is a pickle for the knowing ones?
the legend of the 10 elemental masters is honestly pretty based tho

>> No.18236287

>>18236247
GOD KNOW I'VE TRIED.
IJ was just boring. Didn't bother reading the last 100 pages.
Ulysses filtered me for cultural reasons more than anything and 90% of GR felt like a written post-modern Steinbeck obsessed with songs and bananas.

>> No.18236294

>>18236287
>Ulysses filtered me for cultural reasons more than anything
?

>> No.18236296

>>18236247
I started infinite jest and I liked it but it was too far past my reading level. It was like experiencing a hyper realistic dream but I couldn't keep up :(

>> No.18236304

>>18236287
Anybody whose complaints about GR center around bananas didn't try very hard because that literally stops after the first chapter.

>> No.18236466

yeah like im gonna read the reddit trilogy

>> No.18236485

>>18236247
Ulysses is the only one I'm interested in reading.

>> No.18236490

>>18236281
the meme trilogy is not about greatness, they are about board culture. They are novels that are heavily memed yet still create good discussion which maintains readership. If anything should go it should be Ulysses, it is hardly discussed here anymore, can't remember the last time it had a good thread. Gaddis might take the the spot now that JR and The Recognitions have been reprinted, still too early to say. Newfag.

>>18236296
That is sort of how it is supposed to be.

>> No.18236529
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18236529

>>18236247
Yes, IJ before I came to this board and the other two after. I rank them GR>Ulysses>IJ

IJ: a pseud fest. Not enjoyable to read, bloated, tedious, boring plot, thin characters, meaningless gimmicks like footnotes in a fiction novel. A novel that decided it was the greatest before it was written.

Ulysses: a unique and poetic read. Some parts much better and more intelligible than others. I didn't see the parallels to the odyssey. Really enjoyed the play chapter and Leopold Blooms debauchery in general. Will read again one day with annotations.

GR: an anti war epic. You will laugh, you will cry, you will have your mind blown. It will change he way you see the world. Pynchon at his all time best.

>> No.18236569

Only IJ but I intend to read the others. I am not an english speaker so I had some troubles with IJ and it took me a long time to finish. How are the other two books compared to IJ, more or less demanding?

>> No.18236613

>>18236247
Yeah, I've read Infinite Jest three times (for some reason), Gravity's Rainbow once, and I read Ulysses for the first time last year.

>> No.18236619

Only IJ so far, really liked it. Plan to get to Ulysses sometime this year, dont know on GR yet.

>> No.18236646 [DELETED] 
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18236646

I will once I finish these

>> No.18236649

>>18236569
More. The only real challenge in IJ is the length and the obscure word every few pages. It was written in such a way that, for me, the plot and characters were not difficult to keep track of despite the length and complexity.

Ulysses has difficulty spikes. Some sections are simple, some will seem like meaningless gibberish until you spend half an hour per page analyzing each sentence. If you don't mind not getting every reference (and you won't, only Joyce knew every reference) the plot itself isn't too tough. Read at least Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man first if you want to appreciate Stephen's parts.

Gravity's Rainbow is incredibly weird and confusing. It's also extremely enjoyable. Pycnhon's sentence structure and vocabulary can be difficult but the hardest part is keeping track of all the connections between characters and events, which is on purpose.

>> No.18236680

im reading Dubliners atm. good shit. I would like to read the odyssey before I read ulysses though

>> No.18236687

>>18236649
does ulysses build thematically on portrait?

>> No.18236710

Only Ulysses

>> No.18236730

I haven't read Infinite Jest and have no interest in doing so in the near future.

>> No.18236798

>>18236649
Thanks. Would you consider to use a website to get all the references? I used one going through IJ to get all neologisms and obsure references although it does mess quite a bit with the flow of reading.

>> No.18236799

>>18236529
>I didn't see the parallels to the odyssey.
Jesus anon, I ...
Definitely read it again with annotations.
It's definitely better than GR

>> No.18236814

>>18236247
you class these books together because they are large and not because of any similarity in purpose or style. Sad!

>> No.18236825

>>18236814
Another newfag that doesn't know what the meme trilogy is.

>> No.18236838

>>18236265
>excuse, excuse, excuse

>>>/a/ is that way, you illiterate faggot.

>> No.18236878

>>18236687
Sort of, but mostly it's just that some of Stephen's thoughts are incomprehensible unless you know his backstory.

>>18236798
When I read GR I just used wiktionary and wikipedia to look things up. I occasionally used the Gravity's Rainbow wiki

This site is useful if you have no idea what happened in a particular episode (chapters are called "episodes" in most literature on GR)
https://www.ottosell.de/pynchon/rainbow.htm

Ulysses gets so referentially dense at points that looking up everything would completely destroy any "flow". For a first reading I would accept that you won't get everything and only look up things that interest you. Or maybe read a passage once, then go back and look things up, then read through the passage again.

The merciful thing about Ulysses is that the plot is rather simple, and even if you completely fumble through a section without understanding much you won't feel "lost" later on. Also a lot of the references are like "easter eggs", like they're just a bonus for people who notice them (for example at one point Stephen starts walks down a street that has a store called Henry & James and starts thinking about Henry James, but you'd only notice that if you were familiar with the stores in Dublin in 1904)

>> No.18236903
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18236903

>>18236878
>>18236798
Buy a companion. I read both with a companion. Ulysses I read in a course.

>> No.18236988

>>18236247
Infinite Jest is great.

>> No.18237024

>>18236247
Yes. I think Infinite Jest is a good novel. Ulysses and Gravity's Rainbow are total memes, they're not even that difficult they're just stupid and juvenile nonsense for hippies and precocious college students.

>> No.18237064

>>18236260
Piss, I didn’t realize ulillillia came out with a second book. I haven’t followed him since he left youtube

>> No.18237137

>>18236878
ok, ill read portrait first then

>> No.18237241
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18237241

i read the big 4 for the complete experience

>> No.18237254

>>18236466
Reddit can’t even finish American Psycho

>> No.18237257

>>18236490
im only a /lit/ tourist but from an outsiders perspective blood meridian seems like its worthy of the meme trilogy

>> No.18237449

IJ was my first of the three. It was amazing at the time, but as I read more 'good' books I realized it wasn't that special. It's not bad, just not on the level of U or GR

Ulysses was the second. The reputation preceding it was accurate: Joyce is a master of prose. Finished it on a lonely 23rd birthday

Read GR the following year. As good as Ulysses, as far as that comparison can be made because the book is a completely different type of novel. It aids in 'explaining' the postwar world a lot'
>>18236283
I've read that and stole the second edition from Yale. Very funny and cool as a historical pice

>> No.18237454

>>18236247
yep

>> No.18237486

>>18236798
I like to read thru without any outside assistance but there are plenty of resources for each. Probably just cuz I'm lazy

>> No.18237758

>>18237257
Blood meridian, Moby dick and TBK is the other (probably even more) memed trilogy, but two aspecta of the meme trilogy are their length and experimental nature. They became board memes because pseuds loved to namedrop them without really ever reading them.

>> No.18237788

>>18236256
Nice Byzantine Erotica

>> No.18238033

>>18236247
IJ I thought was highly overrated. Most of it is not art like Ulysses or GR but cheap satire at best. Some sections were better than others, but everytime there was a part about the Québécois wheelchair fucks or whatever I wanted to toss the off the canyon they were on myself. There is zero literary or artistic merit in those parts, which is the most unforgivable thing to me as every section in Ulysses is worth the time to read

>> No.18238254

>>18236490
lol hi redd*t

>> No.18239038

>>18236247
Only IJ so far. Plan on reading the other two eventually.

>> No.18239056

No I don't read books. It's for gays

>> No.18239079

>>18237257
>>18237758
They have the memes but lack the discussion, threads on them tend to be either simple question/answer or masturbation, especially McCarthy. I really wish McCarthy threads were better but most of his following on this board just respond to anything but agreement that he is the greatest with something like 'filtered' or insult, BM threads being the worst. Moby Dick threads are almost completely just anons talking about it's greatness with the occasional question or someone saying it was boring. TBK gets some good discussion, but everyone more or less agrees upon it. A big part of what makes the meme trilogy what it is, is that there are a great many views as too interpretation so discussion can be very interesting, Ulysses being the odd one out since it does not seem to be read much anymore.

>> No.18239236

>>18236247
No, but I intend to get into Joyce and Pynchon starting next year.

>> No.18239254

>>18236838
>book not yet read
>an “excuse”
for what, you retarded nigger faggot?

>> No.18239417

>>18236260
where to get Behead all satans?

>> No.18239481

>>18239079
Of all those books BM has by far the most threads with good discussion in them. Check out the threads from 2 months and before, so many good posts. An anon wrote a thesis on The Judge being Saturn which has stuck with me. I don't even remember a good GR thread that made it past 40 replies without race baiting and scat fetish. Last good one I remember was in '17.

>> No.18239537

>>18239481
The problem is that the anons in BM react poorly to any sort of criticism of BM, they shut down any conversation not dealing with it's greatness. The meme trilogy has that in common, they will discuss with anyone interested in good faith discussion.

> I don't even remember a good GR thread that made it past 40 replies without race baiting and scat fetish
That is part of being in the meme trilogy, the memes.

>> No.18239731

>>18239537
>anons in BM react poorly to any sort of criticism of BM, they shut down any conversation not dealing with it's greatness.
I take it that you are new. The amount of "filtered" posts in a standard GR or Ulysses thread is more than you are going to get in BM threads. BM always had more threads on it with better discussion even as far back as november or december 2020. Current threads aren't a good indicator (hardly any threads on it in a long while) and too many retarded detractors take over the thread and ruin discussion. Just a couple of weeks ago there was this one retard who was adamant at convincing people it was dogshit despite admitting he never read it, too much bs.
>The meme trilogy has that in common, they will discuss with anyone interested in good faith discussion.
Kek. You haven't been in many I take it.

>> No.18239736

>>18236247
1/5
4/5
0/5
Back in my day we memed camus instead

>> No.18239771

>>18239731
>I take it that you are new
>Kek. You haven't been in many I take it.
>Let me enlighten with my greatness
You are demonstrating my point, this is exactly the response you get in BM threads if you do anything short of praising it.

>> No.18239773

>>18236247
I don't read fiction

>> No.18239810

>>18239771
You have a strong victim complex. I am stating what I know. I have been in so many BM threads in the past 2 years, I know what I am talking about. There used to be 6 BM threads in the catalog at any given time even this time last year in may, so I have been to a fair few. Maybe it's not other anons being too defensive and just you being too sensitive? I mean "filtered" is like the standard response on /lit/, don't know why you are making such a big deal out of it. It is really ironic that you are defending good discussion when your first response to dissent is "pffft...sterotypical fanboy". If you want to see dicksucking look up any Finnegans wake thread in the past 4 months.

>> No.18239860

>>18239771
Dude, do you shut your eyes for posts that are discussing narrative threads? Do you really think "filtered" is exclusive to BM threads?
>The meme trilogy has that in common, they will discuss with anyone interested in good faith discussion.
Fucking kek. This is a dead giveaway that you are new. Any dissent is met with two people calling you retard then one guy explaining, especially in Ulysses threads.

>> No.18239900

>>18239810
>I mean "filtered" is like the standard response
>>18239860
>Do you really think "filtered" is exclusive to BM threads?
Notice that I said "something LIKE filtered or insult" it was used as an EXAMPLE of the sort of garbage responses you get in those threads. You don't even bother to comprehend before response, just react, and yet it is not you who is being defensive, it is I who is being sensitive.

I really have no idea why I attempt to converse with the BM fan club, pointless endeavor.

>> No.18239925

>>18239900
All I am getting is that you have an axe to grind with the book. The threads are exactly like any other meme book thread on this board with its fanboys and detractors, your claim that it is different is completely laughable. So is your criteria for the "meme trilogy" which is something only a newfag would say.
"Ze have people discuzzing in gud faithz"
Fucking Lmao.
>something LIKE filtered or insult" it was used as an EXAMPLE of the sort of garbage responses you get in those threads. You don't even bother to comprehend before response, just react, and yet it is not you who is being defensive, it is I who is being sensitive. I really have no idea why I attempt to converse with the BM fan club, pointless endeavor
Yup, victim complex. You got told off and now are mad at an entire fanbase. Post your "controversial" opinions, I am willing to listen.

>> No.18239964

>>18239925
>All I am getting is that you have an axe to grind with the book
When did I say that? I like BM, I just do not think it is perfect and would like to be able to discuss what I dislike about it as well as what I like, you know, have a discussion instead of a circle jerk.
>Yup, victim complex
ok chief.

Time to go, you can do your little dance now and pretend you humiliated me.

>> No.18239998

>>18239964
>I just do not think it is perfect and would like to be able to discuss what I dislike about it as well as what I like, you know, have a discussion instead of a circle jerk.
Care to show me where you did this and got garbage responses? All the "garbage" responses are mostly for shit like "he can't write", "too edgy", "it's for 12 year olds" or some other reactionary bullshit, for which they are justified.
>you humiliated me.
I have no interest in humiliating you. Just don't be a sensitive pussy, nigga. I have seen more filtered responses in the recent Beckett threads than I did in a long time, yet I don't see anybody crying about it.

>> No.18240155

>>18236247
I'm reading portrait before Ulysses, then Finnegan's wake afterwards. IJ bored me but I didn't give it too much of a try

>> No.18240480

>>18236247
>IJ
Definitely my favorite of the three. For all its faults it was a thoroughly engaging reading all the way through and I found the theme it takled to be quite poignant
>Ulysses
Only one I read before getting on this board. Have sort of a stockholm syndrome for it since I didn't really like it on my first read but the circe and penelope chapters were so good they made me think there was much more to be enjoyed. Overall aside for the fact I read it without note so most of the references still fly right over my head the main problem I have with it is probably that I dislike the main characters. Bloom is more relatable but Stephen I find to be just insufferable, whish is weird since I actually liked him quite a bit in portrait of the artist. Maybe that's why I liked penelope that much on my first read, it kinda put their bullshit into perspective
>GR
stupifying and engaging but it just didn't click, and the reason I think has to do with its cyinicism. I get where it comes from but it just doesn't gel well at all with me
Overall I like the trilogy. Would recommend

>> No.18240754

>>18239998
>>18239964
Nothing. As expected.

>> No.18240788

Just Gravity’s Rainbow. I’d like to read Ulysses, maybe, but personally as I get older I’m losing interest in novels altogether, especially extremely long ones.

>> No.18240842

>>18236247
shouldn’t i read the iliad and the odyssey before reading ulysses?

>> No.18241020

>>18239417
sorry about the mess, fren.
https://direct.warosu.org/lit/thread/S15654261#p15654708
https://direct.warosu.org/lit/thread/S15656498#p15656498
https://direct.warosu.org/lit/thread/S15660345#p15660345

>> No.18241068

Doesn't Ulysses have a fuck ton of prerequisites? I haven't started it since I'm afraid it will be a waste of time.

I'm halfway through IJ and I've read GR

>> No.18241529

Yet to read Ulysses. As I finished IJ this year, I plan to rerad Ulysses next year.

>> No.18241836

>>18236247
I don't read so no

>> No.18242069

>>18241068
What? What book has "prerequisites?"

I really don't get some of you people.

>> No.18242095

>>18242069
at the VERY LEAST one has to read Homer's Oddyssey and Portrait of the Artist before you read Ulysses, you fucking retard

>> No.18242616

>>18241068
>>18242095
I read it it without having ever glanced at the Odyssey or Portrait and I loved it. The fated 3rd chapter wasn't even that bad (which apparently Portrait helps with???), it was the Oxen chapter which really fucked me up.

>> No.18242630

>>18236680
Good job, anon. Keep it up

>> No.18242642

>>18236247
GR and IJ were great, read them in that order. Finished Dubliners and reading Portrait, will be finishing Ulysses by end of the month.

>> No.18242652

>>18236903
Same for Finnegans Wake, which is actually completely incomprehensible on the first read or without a companion.

>> No.18242874

>>18240754
Perhaps you should ponder the beginning of my closing statement
>time to go
I wonder what that could mean...

Or is this your little dance where you pretend to humiliate me?

>> No.18243063

>>18236247
Only infinite jest left. I liked Ulysses more than GR.

>> No.18243957

>>18242874
As expected. Screams wolf but nothing to back up. What else can this get but garbage responses? No need to humiliate you, your kind do it very well yourself.

>> No.18244143

>>18236247
Ij and Gr.
Tried ulysses many years ago but I was too young and my english was worse so I ended up putting it down.

Everyone is shitting on IJ for being a pseudfest but the neurotic pseud overexplaining and analyzing is an experience I can empathize with, so I didn't find the book frustrating, and actually just enjoyed it as a "fun" book.

Gr was great and unexpected, even though I got a bit filtered by the down the toilet poop and drug festival portion.

>> No.18244172

>>18239254
For not reading the book nigger

>> No.18244172,1 [INTERNAL] 

>>18239417
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa 4Chan laughs at you!! BEHEAD ALL SATANS is the rambling of an adolescent brat not who needed his mother. Bezos removed them only to not be EMBARRASSED!! HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHs