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18234164 No.18234164[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

I'm trying to understand why commies are usually extremely woke despite the core ideology not having anything to do with wokeness. Should I read the main book to get this, or is there a better secondary text for it?

>> No.18234179

>>18234164
There is. Read Marx' On Proudhon.

>> No.18234192

>>18234164
Antonio Gramsci, he is often cited as the one to have originated intersectionalism. He was also a fat piece of shit

>> No.18234204

>>18234164
Wokism is just a deepstate plot to keep the middle and lower class hating each other. It is a CIA plot that was put out after the Occupy Wall Street movement went after the bankers and the Tea Party went after crooked politicians in 2011. Then they ramped up the hollywood and news propaganda machine to turn the people against each other instead of the shadow fascist oligarchs who own the politicians and steal billions of tax dollars every year from the people. The entire thing is just a fucking misdirection. The fact that lolbertarians like me and actual socialists see through this bullshit and hate the same people should tell you I'm right. The fact that the CIA put out a wokeist ad should tell you I'm right. Wells fucking Fargo literally stole thousands of people's homes and cars by forging documents, had racist ad campaigns for subprime mortgages, and yet got bailed out after being fined like 1% of what they should have. Make no mistake, we do not live in capitalism. We live in crony capitalism which I just call shadow fascism. The government controls the market whenever it wants to in order to benefit the rich because the rich own the government. Bill Clinton passed the Telecomunications Act of 1996 which consolidated the media into only 6 conglomerate companies so they could control the propaganda. They have now extended that to the social media companies by threatening them to take non-state-approved information off of them.

In essence, because they're dumb fucking rubes.

>> No.18234219

Because the people they dont like really dont like it. Its ironically just pure reaction

>> No.18234228

>I'm trying to understand why commies are usually extremely woke
They aren't, it's the corpos who push wokeism and it's mostly a ploy to keep the lower and middle classes bickering and to co-opt minority groups into supporting Capitalism.

>> No.18234247

>>18234228
your discords are run by literal trannies

>> No.18234258

>>18234247
I don't use discord and those creatures aren't communists they are deluded abominations

>> No.18234273

>>18234164
>why commies are usually extremely woke despite the core ideology not having anything to do with wokeness
Cant organize labor to bargain if theres a societal understanding that you could just compel a lower caste to do it.
Marx talks about this even in the first volume of Capital, for instance in a society where slavery is legal, poor farmers would have a very difficult time negotiating for anything if the slave master could get his guys to race them to the bottom

>> No.18234300

>>18234228
>he thinks we live in capitalism
This isn't a free market anon. This is not capitalism, it is fascism.

>> No.18234305

>>18234300
If only it were fascism, anon. It's neoliberalism.

>> No.18234307
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18234307

>>18234164
>I'm trying to understand why commies
Stopped right there
Pic rel

>> No.18234316
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18234316

>>18234300
>This is not capitalism, it is fascism.
I wish

>> No.18234323

>>18234164
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GnwxqPeP0Uc&feature=emb_title

>> No.18234328

>>18234300
vgh... if only

>> No.18234331

>>18234305
>>18234316
We already live in fascism. We just didn't elect the leaders. Government and business are run as one entity. That is fascism. The only difference is that the business leaders own the government. The result is exactly the same. Are we or are we not in endless foreign wars. Does getting in bed with politicians benefit the business men? We are in the same level of fascism as China at this point. The first amendment has been abolished. We live in a one party state with a state-run propaganda machine. The two party system was a fucking joke and now they even took that away. They also took away voting by destroying the voting system across the country. This is fucking fascism whether your rose colored glasses and romanticism like it or not.

>> No.18234337

>>18234164
That’s what slave morality does to a mf

>> No.18234345
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18234345

>>18234331
>>18234300
bait

>> No.18234353

>>18234345
I'm a fucking ancap. All government is fascism for all I care. George floyd should have been shot by the cashier for stealing from him and cops should have never been involved.

>> No.18234365
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18234365

>>18234331
>>18234353

>> No.18234379

>>18234164
Its called "the march through the institutions", it was a ploy to subvert the "capitalist" institutions and replace them with communism, it failed and commies became the ones that got subverted.

>> No.18234380

>>18234365
Is fascism where the state and business are run as one entity? Is fascism where there is one acceptable party? Is fascism pushed by a propaganda machine with a lack of free speech?

The only thing we are missing is le charismatic leader and nationalism. You're fucking retarded.

>> No.18234382

>>18234164
Wokeism is not Marxist, it is an extreme manifestation of liberal narcissism.

>> No.18234385

>>18234192
The Jewiest-looking goy ever to boot

>> No.18234388
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18234388

>>18234353
>I'm a fucking ancap. All government is fascism for all I care
Cringe
>George floyd should have been shot by the cashier for stealing from him
Based

>> No.18234402

>>18234307
Nietzsche is an incel that would support crushing the working class if we try to rise up

>> No.18234416

>>18234204
Basically this. Carrots and sticks, divide and conquer. This is business as usual for the feds
Read Peter Gelderloos’ How Nonviolence Protects the State, among others to see how the government has infiltrated leftist movements like the DSA and now BLM

>> No.18234419

>>18234388
Is there social regulation right now? Yes. You have to wear the mask goy, show your allegiance to the party. Submit and comply. This is fucking fascism.

>> No.18234424

>>18234164
>I'm trying to understand why commies are usually extremely woke despite the core ideology not having anything to do with wokeness.
They aren't.
Every communist will tell you that race and gender questions exist, and that they are smaller parts of the greatest issue, which is class. If you believe that a communist thinks that it's good that Vogue has a trans black woman on its cover, or that it's good that we just elected the first openly gay Asian men as governor of Ohio you are simply mistaken. These are all smokescreen to negate deeper issues.
>>18234192
>He was also a fat piece of shit
t. never read anything

That's just it, really.

>> No.18234433
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18234433

>>18234419
>wearing a mask is fascism
anon..I..

>> No.18234436
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18234436

>>18234164
>>18234228
>>18234204
socialism was a bridge between capitalism and communism, once communism commits suicide, socialism has no meaning and so the leftists were left with nothing to live for. they turned from shitting on the rich atheists to the new scapegoat, ie racists and sexists in atheism., since all the christians are killed. They till can't touch muslisms and even less jews, so they didnt have much choice in building a new scapegoat

all the socialists post fall of communism [peak of bureaucracy and science thinking]. Again Socialists are forced to do this because socialism exist only has a bridge between capitalism and communism, so once communism fails, the bridge collapses too.

So know the pomoturds are saying ''yeah ok human rights a nice, but science can't explain everything, like morality'' which leads to all the vegan neo yuppi vaginas and antifa green brainwashing ass holes viewing themselves as leftists glorifying the human rights, and yet doubting science and killing the atheist people they don't like, the ones abroad as usual , but also the local atheists who support science lol]

So overall wokeism is jsut the symptom of the fall of communism. Socialist don't know what to do to gain market shares in the democracy.

However, the right in democracy is ill-defined, because historically the right was 100% monarchy, and the left was natinalism.
Leftists created the nations as a revolt to the monarchs and nation = freedom from religious monarch

Initially it was about classical liberalism. IE merit and being a bureaucrat.
the atheist academia is hyped by the humanists, only because the bourgeois included this intellectual class in the ruling class, and evicted the christians scholars and priests from power.
THis is why merit in secular democracies is a spook. Literally doesn't exist. Only the ruling class has power and the ruling class doesnt change.

This is why secular humanism is feudalism where
king=president
priest=scholar and journalist
warrior=bureaucrat
peasants=peasants lol

1789 never happened


So now you see that the left has fucked itself and the right is jsut some weird thing about building some monarchy inside the atheist democracy.

The left has no critical thinking and only exists in a democracy, so it means the elft needs a fall guy for all the bad things happening in a republic. Leftists can't understand why republics are shit inherently, they prefer to say that if there are problems in a republic, it's because some hidden weird group is manipulating the state. That's why initially the leftists hated the jews.

Now the christian fall guy is killed so it's about racism and sexism as a justification of the failure of democracy.

>> No.18234440

>>18234424
>Every communist will tell you
Social media commies won't

>> No.18234443

>>18234433
Being legally forced to wear a mask is absolutely fascism.

>> No.18234452

>>18234164
>Should I read the main book to get this
Nah, it's a good place to start if you're beginning your journey into leftist shit but you're going to be left with a gaping void of knowledge wondering how you go from the hard materialism of Marxism to modern leftist movements telling your with 100% sincerity that a persons gendered soul can be born in the wrong body. I don't know myself how they square this desu, if anyone knows I'd be very interested to learn more.

>> No.18234454

>>18234164
Intersectionality. There's your answer. No book needed.

>> No.18234455
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18234455

>>18234436
Pills,now

>> No.18234461

>>18234424
Dude he literally died of clogged arteries he was a fat fuck, most prominent writers have been thin, I don't know what to tell you tubby.

>> No.18234465

>>18234416
The state having a monopoly on violence is always a problem. The fact that they did what they did and we didn't dynamite all of wall street, lynched the bankers, and burned down every DC politicians home is ridiculous. Why? Because the state has a monopoly on violence.

>> No.18234474

Because wokeness is the cultural wing of the communist program. It is a direct descendent of the strategy for the "march through the institutions." They know that gender race and sexual communism all advances class communism or, at the end, can be ignored when their purposes have been served. Any communist who tells you wokeness and communism have nothing to do with each other, and that wokeness is liberalism, is either naive or lying: in-fighting, no-true-communist-isms and doctrinal hair splitting are all classic communist methods of internal policing and disguise.

>> No.18234475
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18234475

>>18234331
>>18234380
Quite stupid honestly.
When you generalize this hard you can lump in Vatican in there too.
Corporations are run by the dumb and blind algorithms designed to increase numbers at any cost. There isn't anybody that can control that if they're on the inside.
This isn't fascism. America is run by an immaterial machine code. The actual AI that clueless retards fear so much is already there and it's shit.

>> No.18234482
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18234482

>If you're not as fat as this guy then you're not a real /lit/ fag and have never read anything!

>> No.18234490

>>18234482
barely overweight by american standards

>> No.18234494

>>18234475
The innocents literally killed the pinkertons and bombed the mines anon. It sorts itself out so long as you keep government out of the way.

>> No.18234502
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18234502

>>18234490
I don't understand why communists do this, their irrational hatred of aesthetics and being fit in general makes no sense

>> No.18234503
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18234503

>>18234164
You shouldn't waste your time with anything communist. The entire goal of communism is just a rationalization of psychological resentment.

>> No.18234529
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18234529

>>18234502

>> No.18234541

>>18234529
it might be this yeah

>> No.18234543

>>18234529
Wasn't the musical Cats written by Andrew Lloyd Webber?

>> No.18234553

>>18234529
>Mexicans
Not true,we are subhuman

>> No.18234559

"Woke" means absolutely nothing to me. It's all an arbitrary dichotomy to divide "extreme" and "reasonable" forms of leftism as if there's such a thing.

>> No.18234560

>>18234440
>Social media commies won't
I didn't say social media commies. Go out and find one (might be hard but not impossible, depending where you're from)

>> No.18234582
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18234582

>>18234258
>I don't use discord and those creatures aren't communists they are deluded abominations
Yes they are. but u have to realize that ur ideology pretty much only attracts the losers of society. The mentally ill such as faggots, drug addicts people who have no interest of improving themselves and ofcourse the people who simply dont want to work. Communism does not attract the family man, the self-sufficient and effective man. Do you see the problem here?

>> No.18234590
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18234590

>>18234307
/thread
Commie dictators,who want, and are willing to shape the world to their liking,without caring about morality can be based however.

>> No.18234601

>>18234164
"wokeness" wasn't a part of socialist ideology in Marx's days but you'd be mistaken if you thought that socialism or more broadly leftism can be dissociated from wokeism. all of these ideologies run on the fuel of ressentiment and hatred for the successful
>b-but m-muh based Red Army soldiers
take your pills Sergei. main tenets of wokeness were already present in Soviet ideology, it's just that Russian peasants were dumb and illiterate enough to swallow wokeness diluted with nice sounding buzzwords about muh stronk Russian motherland

>> No.18234606

>>18234560
I may be misunderstanding you but the only Marxist-Leninist communists you'll find out there now will be aging cranks with little of value to say. That brand of communism died with the USSR and they've been replaced by a bizarre sect of trans Marxist witches.

>> No.18234614

>>18234461
>Dude he literally died of clogged arteries he was a fat fuck
He always had bad health even as a kid, they literally bought a coffin for him when he was 4.
10+ years in prison didn't help (he lost most his teeth, just to name one)

>most prominent writers have been thin
Plato literally means "large dude"

>> No.18234632

>>18234482
>>18234490
He was short because of bone tubercolosis, it's not like he ate lots of chicken wings and drank liters of pepsi.

>> No.18234634

>>18234590
I'm not a communist advocate and I still want Xi to rape America.

>> No.18234641

>>18234529
*pic saved*

>> No.18234650

>>18234634
>I'm not a communist
That's okay, neither is Xi

>> No.18234652
File: 570 KB, 1100x900, Xi jinping philosopher king.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18234652

>>18234590
Xi Jinping is a great man. Communism works.
https://youtu.be/V9-D8h4iDaI?t=102

>> No.18234653

>>18234614
>they literally bought a coffin for him when he was 4
oh how different things could have been...

>> No.18234656

>>18234614
>>18234632
If you are fat, regardless of the reasons as to why I immediately disregard anything you have to say. Gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins, I don't interact with gluttons, and I say this as a former fat retard myself with stretch marks and loose skin on my neck. Physiognomy is real and fat people are instantly recognizable sinners.

>> No.18234658

They've been sublimated into consumer culture. You can largely tell this by how proud they are to identify as Communist for social purposes.

>> No.18234707

>>18234606
Radical leftwingers are quite active in my area, don't limit your view at a dude writing articles for a selfpublished "THE WORKERS' VOICE"-journal, it's more about doing than saying
During lockdowns, they brought food to people just to name one, during normal times they make cultural/social activities (let's clean the neighbourhood, movies, discussions, book fairs, DIY classes, boxe, soccer, they have a radio which broadcasts not only online but on air too, free legal, medical and psychological help, activities where they help kids doing their homework, literally anything you can imagine). One of their big issues is homelessness/right to home, they oppose evictions and/or squat abandoned buildings for families.
On top of these, of course, protests and riots when needed.

>> No.18234719

>>18234652
Based learned Xi

>> No.18234724

>>18234529
deepdish pizza is good fuck you

>> No.18234792
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18234792

>>18234582
>ur ideology pretty much only attracts the losers of society
Yes,sure,but this applies better to anarchists who can't see themselves as masters over others,and identify with the losers.
Communist leaders can be based,and creative,they can simply use the working class as a catapult,to throw themselves to their destination.
>>18234601
>all of these ideologies run on the fuel of ressentiment and hatred for the successful
I agree,Communist leaders might be a little more creative than that,they can simply pretend to care about the working class afterall.
>>18234652
>Communism works
As in,eventually it will create a stateless, classless, moneyless society?
I don't think so,there is no reason to care about anothers freedom,especially if you have the freedom to order them around,and to transform the world around you,without caring about what other have to say.
(This freedom to rule others,to not be dependent on their consent,is something anarchist societies lack,if they work,atleast that's my understanding)
Perhaps one Communist leader will simply create an anarchist society because it would please him to,perhaps no Communist leader will ever set an anarchist society as his goal,and the society is never realised.
Strong men shall try to achieve their goals,the losers will resent the strong men.

>> No.18234815

>>18234792
China is fascist not communist though.

>> No.18234844
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18234844

>>18234792
Will unfettered capitalism lead to a stateless, classless, meritocratic society?
I don't trust the masses to get there by random chance and "free market".
A radical ideologue with no regard for the lives of a few parasites can give us a glimpse of that though.

>> No.18234857
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18234857

>>18234815
>I must categorize!!

>> No.18234870

>>18234844
Yeah fuck choices and freedom I hate that shit. Someone needs to tell me what to think, say, consoom, and die for.

>> No.18234875

>>18234857
China by definition is fascism not communism. Wisdom is knowing everything by it's proper name.

>> No.18234894

>>18234870
Yeah fuck family! Let's kill our fascist parents!

>> No.18234921

>>18234894
Why have more than one kid, that is inefficient and redundant.

>> No.18234931

>>18234707
Liberal NGOs do all the things you list. Mutual aid can be done by capitalist institutions.
>>18234792
All forms of communism is a broken window fallacy that seeks to justify the most irrational forms of theft and murder.

>> No.18234942

>>18234844
>Governments are efficient and good even though the Soviet Union and China killed millions of people with starvation
When markets fail, you don't have people who die from starvation. They're just replaced by a better competitor who can meet the demands of the consumer. With communism, you get Lysenkoism

>> No.18234952

>>18234164
>the main book
that isn't the main book, the communist manifesto is a short pamphlet more seen as an introduction, you can read it in less than 2 hours.
"wokeness" is more a western left phenomena than anything else, I recommend Zizek for some good criticisms of political correctness.

>> No.18234962

>>18234942
But I need someone to tell me and everybody else what to do. I want to be a stooge. How dare people make choices because they don't make the choice I want them to make.

>> No.18234964

>>18234656
I (mostly) hate obese fucks too, that's not the point. You can read his "Letters from prison", he speaks often of what he eats, it's nonsense to call him "a glutton", he was in fucking jail, do you think he ate like he was watching the superbowl?
Translating and quoting
>11th January 1932
>Dearest Tania [...] (I'm sure I still have some 1-year-old chocolate, because I eat little of it and then I forget of getting new one after I finish the "ration"
>31st August 1931
>Dearest Tatiana[...]I decided to not eat bread at all, etc: I eat three eggs with butter and 2 liters of milk [...] I will ask for one daily kilo of grapes, so that I can reduce the milk, that I was never really able to digest.

Do you call 3 eggs a day "gluttony"?

>9th January 1933
>Dearest Tania [...]In december my expenses amounted to 122.05 £
>60.70 for medicines
>8.80 for mail
>52.55 for consumables goods of which 15.08 for tobacco, 1 for matches, 0.88 for rolling papers.
>For food, exactly 37.47

>31 october 1932
>Dearest Tania[...] When I was free, I weighted 55 kgs, when I arrived at Turi I was 50kg, and I was in very bad shape, because for one month I had had "St.Anthony fire"* which cut open a 2-inch wound in my side, without being able of healing or bandaging it during the 12 days of trip. There I got better, and 8 months ago I was 55kg again.
>I checked my weight a couple days ago, and I was 50kgs, fully dressed and with shoes. So we can say I lost about 7 kgs in 6-7 months.

>19th December 1927
>Dearest mother [...] I bought one panettone slice to eat, just so I can pretend that you sent it personally.

>24 september 1928
>Dearest Tania[...] The ration is like this:300g of bread, 700g of milk, 200g of pasta with butter, 2 raw eggs. This is the infirmary ration, since I can't eat meat, or tomato soup. [...] I eat grapes and not much bread, more or less 120g/day, some with milk and some with butter in the evening. I can't really digest even this food, even if it's so light.

Yeah, he was totally a glutton.
Read a book.

>> No.18234982
File: 1.02 MB, 1600x970, trade-timelapse-usa-china-0448.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18234982

>>18234844
Bro,I don't really understand how that,or your pic,is related to what I said
>Will unfettered capitalism lead to a stateless, classless, meritocratic society?
I don't care,probably not,I just hope the uncreative don't rise to power,I started with /threading a Nietzsche reply anon
>I don't trust the masses to get there by random chance and "free market".
Ok
And?
>A radical ideologue with no regard for the lives of a few parasites can give us a glimpse of that though.
I said it's technically possible that a Communist leader might try to create a a stateless, classless, moneyless society.
But there is no reason to,just like there is no reason to do anything.
I'm not really well read on Ancapism anon.

>>18234931
>theft and murder bad
Why?
>>18234942
Solved by Dengism
Gif related

>> No.18234986

>>18234300
>Gradual erosion of all social norms and belief
>Widespread outsourcing of every aspect of society
>In no way palingenetic

Unironic untermensch

>> No.18234991

>>18234982
China owns the mineral rights to the majority of Africa and that is a good thing.

>> No.18235002

>>18234986
We are in social regulation right now anon. It's just not the kind you like. Are you mentally retarded? We live in a thought police state already. Not all fascism is about family values.

>> No.18235007

>>18234982
>theft and murder bad
I doubt you'd want people murder and steal from you. Also, this isn't a great argument for communism if you think these things are appealing to most people.
>Solved by Dengism
They abandoned central planning for markets. Now, in China, 1/3 of the wealth is owned by the top 1%, and it has a higher gini coefficient than the United States. The United States, pretty most countries on Earth, are market economies so switching to "dengism" has no benefit, and therefore, China's economics are of no consequent.

>> No.18235012

>>18234931
>Liberal NGOs do all the things you list.
Maybe (not sure about that). And? The leftists still do so with a perspective which is critical of the system and argues for a change, NGOs don't really do that.
>Mutual aid can be done by capitalist institutions.
I don't think it could be "mutual" if one is a capitalist institution.

>> No.18235023

>>18234964
He was in jail for like 7 years and in a hospital for 3, but fine I'll admit I don't know a lot about the man. However, people acting on the behalf of Mussolini (pbuh) decided that his mind was not fit to be allowed to think, and I greatly value this decision. Intersectionalism is cringe but if he truly had nothing to do with it then I may apologize for my words.

>> No.18235027

>>18234986
>Gradual erosion of all social norms and belief
This happened because Christianity slowly losing its relevance since the industrial revolution and the scientific revolutions of Enlightenment. This resentment towards "social erosion" is just Christians coping with the fact they can not make persuasive arguments to uphold their culture objectives.
>Unironic untermensch
Nietzche considered socialists Unironic untermensch lol - keep his name out of your mouth

>> No.18235039

>>18234164
just... read this:
>>18233494
THE most confusing ideology

>> No.18235040

>>18235012
>Maybe (not sure about that)
Lol, the communists themselves admit this
https://regenerationmag.org/mutual-aid-a-factor-of-liberalism/
>The leftists still do so with a perspective which is critical of the system
They're all talk, and no bite, they'll make this argument - then justify voting for Democrats every four years. Their "criticisms" are just meaningless virtue signalling.
>I don't think it could be "mutual" if one is a capitalist institution.
Don't you believe wages, or contracts, aren't built on mutual interest?

>> No.18235061

>>18235039
You might want to read this - this clears it up,
https://anarchopac.wordpress.com/2017/09/07/marx-and-engels-were-not-egalitarians/

>> No.18235064

communism is inherently utopian, and this makes it a magnet that attracts other sad delusional saps to its cause

>> No.18235079
File: 160 KB, 343x315, russian harry potter.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18235079

>>18235064
Reason and rationality? Don't want any of that.

>> No.18235088

>>18235064
For me it's Georgism.

>> No.18235124

>>18235023
>However, people acting on the behalf of Mussolini decided that his mind was not fit to be allowed to think
>his mind was not fit
It's the exact and literal opposite: it was clearly evident that he was a fucking genius, and letting him write books and articles would have had an enormous impact on culture and society.
If he was just a fucking idiot, then he wouldn't have been dangerous.
Btw, in the above mentioned "Letters from Prison", the sheer quantity of books he asks is stunning. He writes stuff like "I'm planning to learn Romanian, please also get me a German-Greek dictionary and ask Mr. Rossi to send me some articles about the latest colon surgery techniques" - this is not an actual quote, but later I can find something to that effect, if you want (going to eat now)

>> No.18235124,1 [INTERNAL] 

>>18234503
> psychological resentment....
...to being impoverished, systematically marginalized, assaulted, waged war upon, bribed and made to live in a dying ecosystem.
In fact, there’s every reason to get into communism/anarcho-communism

>>18235064
Utopianism is just a word for dreaming. There’s nothing wrong with dreaming, there is nothing wrong with planning and implementing practical fixes to what’s broken. This line of defense, to call one “utopian” is ridiculous and immature.

https://youtu.be/dJP7lu9gXjc