/wg/-Writing General

[Anonymous No.18231931]

Any progress on your novels?

Previous thread:>>18220598

For Prose:
>The Art of Fiction
>Story Genius: How to Use Brain Science to Go Beyond Outlining and Write a Riveting Novel (Before You Waste Three Years Writing 327 Pages That Go Nowhere)
>On Becoming A Novelist
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>How Fiction Works
>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>Steering the Craft
>On Writing, Borges

For Poetry:
>The Poetry Home Repair Manual
>Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry
>This Craft of Verse, Borges

Related Material:
>What Editors Do
>A Student's Introduction to English Grammar
>Garner's Modern English Usage

Suggested books on storytelling:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Romance the Beat

Suggested books on getting your fucking work done you lazy piece of shit:
>Deep Work
>Atomic Habits

Traditional publishing
> Formatting manuscript
https://blog.reedsy.com/manuscript-format/
> Write a query
https://www.janefriedman.com/query-letters/
> Track your query
https://querytracker.net/

Other Resources
>General grammar/syntax/editing help
https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/purdue_owl.html
> When/where/how should I write?
https://jamesclear.com/daily-routines-writers
> What software should I write with?
https://self-publishingschool.com/book-writing-software-best/
> Amazon Publishing to make that KDP monie
https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200635650
> Be like Charles Dickens and write serially
https://www.royalroad.com/
> Basic overview of the Screenplay format
https://screenwriting.info/

[Anonymous No.18231972]

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/31062/saga-of-the-cosmic-heroes
Released ch80 earlier today. Been trying to stick to a weekend schedule but it's been kinda difficult lately.

[Anonymous No.18232025]

How many words/pages is a novel "supposed" to be anyway

[Anonymous No.18232048]

>>18232025
Technically everything over 50k counts; practically like 85-120k

[Anonymous No.18232109]

My mom gifted me pic related and I haven't finished it yet, but I think some of you might like it.
It feels kind of like being in a creative writing university lecture with an emphasis on short stories. Bonus points if you enjoy Russian lit.

[Anonymous No.18232122]

/wg/, the sequel I'm planning doesn't feel all that great to me and I can't tell if it's because it's a bad sequel or because my burnout is taking away my ability to judge

[Anonymous No.18232165]

>>18232122
How recently did you finish the work before it? It might be time to just leave the sequel aside for now, come back to it later

[Anonymous No.18232193]

>>18232165
book 1 is about 95% through the first draft. I'm currently on break from writing because of the burnout (plus I'm moving) but I don't like putting it completely on the backburner. this is time to seek inspiration

[Anonymous No.18232730]

>>18231931
>tell woman in my workshop that some of her sentences in her story are poorly constructed and are hard to understand and I give examples
>when it’s time to critique my story she says “my sentences vary too much in length” and that it’s hard to understand
I’m pretty sure English is not even her first language, her story was incomprehensible at times. Also why is my “sentence length being too varied” a bad thing? Vindictive Jew bitch.

[Anonymous No.18232778]

>>18232730
Mental midget.

[Anonymous No.18232805]

>>18231972
Almost a thousand pages, congratulations. How much of the story is planned out, you got a ending in mind?

[Anonymous No.18232806]

How do you write from an edgelord's perspective without the work coming across as infantile? The story is basically about letting go of things and recognising your own unimportance in the cosmic scheme. I want to illustrate this by having a traumatised (trafficked, tortured, enslaved) protagonist who makes a name for themselves as a morally ambiguous character (exploiting every legal means to murder e.g. highwaymen) slowly come to realise the futility of their actions and, more importantly, the poor assumptions they followed from. While I could write in a detached, third person style, I'd prefer to delve into their mental life so as to be more impactful in my descriptions of e.g. the murder of your slaver.

[Anonymous No.18232864]

>trying to write a female character that is likeable
>but also want to make her actually believable
I'm coming up short, can anyone give me existing examples?

[Anonymous No.18232916]

>>18232864
Too lazy to give examples, but people like people (and characters) who entertain them. For a female character, this can mean playing up how women can be mercurial, emotional, etc. for laughs. For instance, I have a scene where the typical
>how're you feeling?
<I'm fine.
>That's goo-
<[insert stupid shit here]
>Oh, re-
<[more stupid shit, because fuck you]
>etc.
Otherwise, you can make them likeable by being endearing. Whether that's because they fulfil the archetype of a sweet daughter, or because they try their best to be a better person in a relatable fashion.

[Anonymous No.18232937]

>>18232916
But I don't know any women who try to be better people, I have no frame of reference for what that's supposed to look like in order to be believable. Should I just write a guy and call it a girl?

[Anonymous No.18232975]

>>18232864
I don't see how it's hard to write women. I mean of course it can be difficult if you break your head about it.
Women are just as varied as men, just that they are a lot more socially invested and seemingly irrational and manipulative. All of those traits can be endearing and even positive in the right light.
Don't you have female characters from fiction that you like? Dune comes to mind as having Alia, even Jessica fitting that description, although in my opinion they are still too rational, but it's hard to avoid unless you want page after page of daily inane bickering.

[Anonymous No.18232992]

>>18232937
animechad here

I would give you recommendations but most of the female characters I like are tomboys or basically female men. Hell, this is even true for historical characters I like.

[Anonymous No.18233015]

>>18232937
identify what you think is wrong with women
and then write a woman who has those flaws and wants to overcome them
you dont need a frame of reference, you need an imagination

[Anonymous No.18233020]

>>18233015
Isn't that just writing a waifu then

[Anonymous No.18233024]

>>18232937
>But I don't know any women who try to be better people
Yeah I highly doubt your life is a tragedy where all the women in it are evil.

[Anonymous No.18233061]

>>18233020
I genuinely have no clue how you came to that conclusion, or what you even mean by that.

[Anonymous No.18233065]

>>18233024
Not evil but they're all kinda cunty and insufferable, in my experience if you think a woman is likeable and endearing, you haven't gotten to know her enough

>>18233061
Anime waifus are supposed to be women without flaws, and they end up being submissive male fantasy fuckbots

[Anonymous No.18233078]

>>18233065
>Anime waifus are supposed to be women without flaws, and they end up being submissive male fantasy fuckbots
NTA, but which anime have you seen that they're just that?

[Anonymous No.18233082]

>>18233065
>and then write a woman who has those flaws and wants to overcome them
>and then write a woman who has those flaws
>write a woman who has those flaws
>a woman who has those flaws
>has those flaws
>"Isn't that just writing a waifu then"

[Anonymous No.18233098]

>>18233078
I don't watch anime, it sucks.

[Anonymous No.18233109]

>>18233098
>>18233065
>>18233020

[Anonymous No.18233185]

>>18232806
Make very certain that the edgelord justifies their actions on preconceived notions affected by their past. "Well he hurt me, so that's how everyone in the world is!" and stuff like that. You can also utilize your side characters as foils, especially when the edgelord is off-screen, and allow them to air their doubts, feel pity, etc.

[Anonymous No.18233311]

>a cursed man searches for the lost city of a fabled treasure purported to heal all ailments

Where do you think this story would go? I'm trying to check if my premise is predictable.

[Anonymous No.18233342]

>>18233311
that sounds like something you would see in a cultivation xianxia, no offense if that's what you're going for.

[Anonymous No.18233390]

>>18233311
>the city is real yet it doesn't live up to the protagonist's expectations.
>the city is real and the treasure seems within sight, but it's is destroyed, taken or lost before the protagonist is able to make use of it.
>the city is real and the treasure seems within sight, but the protagonist dies before they're able to make use of it.
>the city is real and the treasure seems within sight, but the protagonist must make a sacrifice before being able to make use of it.
>the city isn't real anywhere except within the protagonist's mind (perhaps optimism and hope or perhaps delusion). He struggles towards an unachievable goal and eventually succumbs to madness, dies or is ends the journey content.

[Anonymous No.18233396]

>>18233065
>has those flaws and wants to overcome them
Maybe they do overcome some of their issues, but perhaps there are some flaws they can't overcome and learn to live with.

[Anonymous No.18233416]

What's everyone studying today? I think I'll rewatch the Phantom of the Opera musical.

[Anonymous No.18233435]

>>18233311
He gets into wacky hijinks with the Nazis, but 60% of the book describes S&M sex between the MC and the sexy Nazi dominatrix who is enamored with him

[Anonymous No.18233442]

>>18233416
Reading David Lynch's biography

[Anonymous No.18233490]

>>18233311
Since the premise is a copy of Dark Souls, I'm guessing there's no actual cure.

[Anonymous No.18233654]

>some of them get struck by lightning and explode
is this fine grammatically? i read it too many times and now i cant tell

[Anonymous No.18233690]

>>18233654
Context? If it's an event happening now it's fine.

[Anonymous No.18233714]

>>18231931
I thought royal road was about paying money to subscribe to a serial but after looking around the website it looks no different than shit like AO3

[Anonymous No.18233748]

Why do you write anon?

[Anonymous No.18233751]

>>18233748
Same reason I eat or jack off, to get that nagging feeling out

[Anonymous No.18233754]

>>18231931
>>18232992
>>18233748
>tranime

[Anonymous No.18233763]

>>18233690
ye its present tense but i wasnt sure of "get struck" cuz word makes it "are struck" or "get hit" but they dont fit so thanks

[Anonymous No.18233764]

>>18233748
Feels good, man

[Anonymous No.18233766]

>>18233748
It's the only thing I feel accomplished on, even though I know I'm far from good.

[Anonymous No.18233788]

>>18233311
>the city was the friends we made along the way

[Anonymous No.18233796]

>>18233763
You can also change the sentence to be
>Lightning strikes XYZ and they explode
So that the verb object is the subject of the sentence

[Anonymous No.18233804]

>>18233748
To see the numbers go up.

[Anonymous No.18233820]

>>18233342
I was going for an oriental feel but I never heard of xianxias until right now, this should make for good research material, thanks for bringing it up.

>>18233390
These all sound like good development ideas, but thankfully I don't see mine on there, at least not in a 1:1 sense, I'll still work at trying to make it more creative.

>>18233435
Damn, I should be writing this instead.

>>18233490
I haven't played Dark Souls but I can assure you I intend this to be as far away from it as possible.

>>18233788
There is actually an element of this present because I love a good journey, but it's obviously not this explicitly hammy and it's just a side element to the actual payoff.

[Anonymous No.18233835]

>>18233820
Xianxia are the Dragon Ball level novels, just straight up magical martial arts with ki and magical items, with curses that unironically help the protagonist.

There's also the Wuxia, which are more 'grounded', with martial arts still being much better in the novel than in real life, but not as wizardry as Xianxia novels.

[Anonymous No.18233844]

>>18232864
look at real life historical figures who accomplished things like joan of arc or hannah arendt, or just regular women who live simple lives in simple circumstances
>but all women are mackiavellian whores
log off the interent for a while

[Anonymous No.18233849]

>>18233820
>I should be writing this instead
Yes.

[Anonymous No.18233858]

>>18233764
This.

[Anonymous No.18233860]

Chapter Eleven is out.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/37998/wish-mountain

[Anonymous No.18233867]

>>18233860
did you make this yourself anon or was it a comission? I have been thinking in posting my novel online, but I know I need a good poster like this to make it visually appealing.

[Anonymous No.18233901]

>>18233867
Not him but if you're willing to settle for black and white, or flat colors, you probably could do it yourself in a month or so.

[Anonymous No.18233909]

>>18233901
Maybe if I'm lucky, I'm able to do so, I'm just afraid of fucking up the poster and no one clicking on it because of that.

[Anonymous No.18233925]

>>18233909
Which is a fair risk indeed. There are lots of things to consider beyond "appealing picture" for a good cover, so if you have the shekels, it's probably best to let an artist with experience in it take care of it.

[Anonymous No.18233926]

>>18233909
On royal road your poster doesn't matter at all. Some of the biggest stories on the site are poorly dumb photoshops or squiggles. Having a nice book cover has done nothing for me to gain readers on RR. It also cost me $200 to get something of this quality. You can find artists who will do it for less, but you pay for what you get. Even the artist I paid was cutting corners a bit, but it's better to have a very good artist cut corners than a poor one cutting corners.

I will be selling on amazon publishing at some point, probably. Either that or making a patreon (I'd prefer to do a patreon).

[Anonymous No.18233933]

>>18233925
I made some from Gamestop, but I'm saving to pay for my college.

>>18233926
I see anon, thanks for the information, good luck with your publication if it ever comes to happen.

[Anonymous No.18234039]

>>18233714
Everyone else already knew, so why are you telling us?

[Anonymous No.18234051]

>>18233926
You paid $200 for that shit? My condolences.

[Anonymous No.18234128]

>>18234051
Why be mean?

[Anonymous No.18234170]

>>18234039
I'm not telling you anything, I'm just wondering what's the point of uploading there? judging by how they manage mature content, even amazon is less restrictive

[Anonymous No.18234177]

>>18233926
>It also cost me $200 to get something of this quality
gotta spend money to make money, I guess

[Anonymous No.18234195]

>>18234051
That's actually a pretty decent price depending on what kind of license he got, imagine if the story went super successful and he had the book cover license to print it on millions of books for just $200, that's a steal if a full usage license was agreed upon. Commercial art will always cost more than personal commissions for this reason, it's about the value added to your business by the artist rather than the artistic merit.

[Anonymous No.18234216]

>>18234177
To give you an idea of why it costs $200

Lets say it takes an artist 4 hours to make.

That's $50 an hour for them. This artist is genuinely good at his craft, so there's a slight premium to be paid. This artist could charge less, but he doesn't need to because he has a steady stream of customers that he has found his minimum price bracket.

Your average okay-tier artist that won't do a good cover will charge $120 for a comic page, sometimes not even coloured. It's not something I'm going to judge, because it is up to the person paying whether that amount is 'fair' or not. l

I don't regret paying for the cover though, because I like it, and it's nice having a near-professional level cover for my work to show that it means a lot to me.

[Anonymous No.18234229]

>>18234216
Agree with everything you said. The person I used in the past did very high quality work and I feel confident in paying her appropriately because I'm willing to invest in the best for my work.

[Anonymous No.18234312]

>>18234195
It's still not very well done.

[Anonymous No.18234317]

>>18234170
The problem is, nobody reads you on amazon or gives you any feedback

[Anonymous No.18234373]

>>18234312
And 200 bucks isn't a lot of money. It took a few hours of work and required the artist to follow the customers wishes. (And usually the latter is the reason why something doesn't look too great)

If I couldn't draw myself and had to self-publish something, cover would be the first thing I'd spend money on.

[Anonymous No.18234639]

>>18234373
Oh, the artist actually deigned to listen to your wishes? Unbelievable. Then they must be a real professional and worth paying a bit of extra. What the hell man, it sounds like you got blitzkrieg'd by some promotional monologue and ate every word.

[Anonymous No.18234734]

>>18234639
>blitzkrieg'd by some promotional monologue and ate every word
Generally it's pretty much the opposite. The customer comes up with some shit and the artist has to deliver, no matter what the stuff is. Unless they are huge themselves, they can't exactly go "nope, this sounds stupid, I'm not doing it".

[Anonymous No.18234743]

Where do I even go to read good web novels?

I know this isn’t a writing-specific question but some of you guys write web novels so I know you’ll know.

[Anonymous No.18234777]

>>18234743
Define good.

[Anonymous No.18234827]

>>18234734
>The customer comes up with some shit and the artist has to deliver, no matter what the stuff is.
Well, yeah, that's kind of what art commissions are about.
>they can't exactly go "nope, this sounds stupid, I'm not doing it".
That is exactly what they should do. Taking a commission that is not you and doing a shitty job will cost the artist a lot more in the long run than just not doing it.

[Anonymous No.18234837]

>>18234743
I write some, but have never found a single one worth reading.

[Anonymous No.18234851]

>>18234743
>>18234837
Metro 2033 began life as a web novel.

[Anonymous No.18234994]

>>18234827
>Taking a commission that is not you and doing a shitty job will cost the artist a lot more in the long run than just not doing it.
Meh, depends on their bracket. As long they aren't aiming for the top, nobody would hold some shitty commissions against them. Besides, we don't even know if anon got an expert for cover designs and the likes. (Most likely not) As long they didn't advertise themselves as one either, what's even the issue?

[Anonymous No.18235096]

Is there a term when someone is absolutely opposed to killing under any circumstances while also avoiding physical and psychological violence?

[Anonymous No.18235105]

>>18235096
damn hippies

[Anonymous No.18235183]

>>18235096
bruh does your vocabulary really not contain the word "pacifist"?

[Anonymous No.18235193]

>>18235183
>being able to comprehend anything other than violence

[Anonymous No.18235209]

>>18233748
To the theme of lamb chops song that never ends...
Ahem.
It's the art that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started writing not knowing what it was, and now they'll write forever just because!
(Repeat until the waking world ends.)

[Anonymous No.18235264]

>>18235183
Does yours have it?

[Anonymous No.18235435]

>>18232805
Thanks, and for the most part yeah.

>>18234743
You could take a look on Spacebattles's creative writing forum and Royalroad's best-rated category. Namely, Mother of Learning is supposedly good, and then there's always Worm and TWI as well.

[Anonymous No.18236164]

>>18235096
idealist
*who has yet to be robbed by reality
**or who is so stupid or masochistic that any robbery is met with groveling on their belly

[Anonymous No.18236254]

>>18235096
"Adult human being."

Most humans wont kill barring an extreme temporary insanity or direct threat inspiring that level of fear, and most humans avoid the other two like the plague whenever possible.

If they also opposed sanctioned killing, such as in the military or law enforcement, then you have a political pacifist, but a good chunk of human beings will oppose killing of any sort, at least in word, most lamenting war and violence in general.

Now, if you also oppose fictional killing, simulations, such as in video games or other media, then you might be a full time cultural pacifist - bit of a rarity but certainly not unheard of.

[Anonymous No.18236640]

>>18234994
Am I the odd one out just using stock book covers? I feel like with everyone being determined to be different just shrugging my shoulders and using free stuff sets me apart.

[Anonymous No.18236676]

>>18236254
>Most humans wont kill barring an extreme temporary insanity or direct threat inspiring that level of fear
t. fat happy 1st world trustfund babby
add a little hunger or other deprivation to the mix and you'll soon find out you're very wrong

[Anonymous No.18236688]

>>18236676
Oh okay Mr. African, I didn't realize you hanged out here on 4chan before going to butcher your neighbor for his yams.

[Anonymous No.18236707]

>>18236688
your vision of what it means to be human is overly sanitized and in no way based on reality

[Anonymous No.18236741]

>>18236707
Reality is that humans living in the modern world don't have to kill each other to survive. His post is still right.

[Anonymous No.18236877]

>>18236707
nigger babble

[Anonymous No.18236902]

>>18236676
>>18236707
You're talking as if people need to commit acts of violence to survive and this simply isn't the case in many parts of the world. Sure, some people will act violent if they deem it necessary but this rare in the day to day lives of civilized adults.

[Anonymous No.18236915]

Anyone know some good resources that summarize the weirder bits of english grammar for those who are sometimes not completely sure how something should be written? I'm mainly thinking of verb tenses and comma usage.

[Anonymous No.18236952]

>>18236902
>Never visited Brazil.

Lmao.

[Anonymous No.18237023]

>>18236676
People will always protect themselves and their families, but violence is the last resort for any adult human - only children and drunkards go there of their own volition.

Organizations, however, can often cause enough fear to make people act less than human. Groups, unlike people, are always less than the sum of their parts.

[Anonymous No.18237031]

>>18236952
I went once to meet up with a girl who I'd met while she was traveling in my home town. Her father was running for Mayor in Recife and they were quite well off. She took me to the movies in a bullet proof car, all the hotels had signs reminding their customers that human trafficking was illegal, I was constantly told to avoid being out at night by myself and that I shouldn't venture away from the shore by more than three blocks. There was a city wide power cut for several hours during one point of my stay and I'm sure a lot of crime was committed that evening. I think we're arguing semantics now, I don't disagree with your point about the depraved nature of humans if they're put in less than ideal situations. The correlation between poverty and crime is apparent. My argument is based around the fact that people living in civilized countries have adapted to a different lifestyle, the countries which have low poverty rates spawn non-violent societies. I know a lot of people who are capable of murder, but wouldn't kill anyone unless they were forced to in defense. I also know some people who, if placed in the same position, wouldn't even if their lives depended on it.

[Anonymous No.18237040]

>>18237031
I'm actually another person anon.

I was assaulted three or four times on Santos, I once had a junkie take out my shoes and my socks, I didn't ask why he took my socks.

[Anonymous No.18237041]

>>18237023
* friends and families, be they communities or nations.

[Anonymous No.18237049]

>>18231931
First book is out already, second book is 25k pages in.
>>18237007

Suggested books on getting your fucking work done you lazy piece of shit:
>Deep Work
>Atomic Habits

Could seriously use these but why the fuck is digital more expensive than physical?

[Anonymous No.18237080]

>>18237040
Sorry to hear that anon, I hope you recovered alright. A friend of mine was assaulted the other day while drinking out in town. There will always be assholes out looking for a fight and there will always be the needy who have nothing to lose, just be glad the thought of assaulting someone doesn't cross the minds of most people in civilized society.

[Anonymous No.18237149]

>>18232806
Bitching about your sportsball team losing a game is more socially acceptable than complaining about any problem, legitimate or otherwise. So some will bitch no matter what you do.
What matters is that their behavior be consistent and believable. You can understand why they are as they are even if you don't agree with them and if circumstances change, and they change for the better you won't see very many legitimate complaints.
>>18232864
Villain and waifu are believable, the latter is also likeable. Otherwise you hit suspension of disbelief every time she is nice and sweet and considerate of others, etc. Yes, even in books about dungeons and dragons and magic. Before you simp, ask yourself - how many female characters in any non Japanese medium act like adults? For that matter it isn't even that common in anime and manga...

[Anonymous No.18237291]

Thoughts on including illustrations of some characters and some scenes to better convey what you want without dumbing down the prose with contrived descriptions?

[Anonymous No.18237308]

>>18237291
if your description is contrived, you need to find a different way to describe the character.

[Anonymous No.18237336]

>>18237308
why should I be held back by the restrictions of wording when I can combine different mediums that do a better job at achieving the desired effect?

[Anonymous No.18237352]

>>18237336
Only works if you're an artist, otherwise doing this rapidly becomes cost and logistics prohibitive.
Unless you wanna be that guy and crowdfund e beg 20k for a book.

[Anonymous No.18237362]

>>18237291
I include commissioned illustrations but I don't worry about conveying anything. It's nice eye candy is all.

[Anonymous No.18237365]

>>18237352
>Only works if you're an artist
I am lol

[Anonymous No.18237393]

>>18237291
there is absolutely no reason to autistically describe characters in excruciating detail. less is often more.

[Anonymous No.18237397]

>>18237393
not true i always introduce my characters by having him look in a mirror and describe himself for the audience so we can get introductions out of the way as early as possible

[Anonymous No.18237439]

>>18237393
it's a case by case basis. no need to adhere to universal rules

[Anonymous No.18237466]

>>18237336
>the restrictions of wording
Perhaps you should learn how to write. You can convey anything with words if your prose is good.

[Anonymous No.18237532]

>>18237291
>The snap of a twig drew Hress’s attention back to the shack. He whipped around, readying himself for a fight. A young woman emerged from the forestation ahead on the other side of the campfire holding a bundle of sticks. She was about Hress’s height, unusually tall for a woman, with a head of shiny smooth ginger hair which was tied in a ponytail. She was dressed in a sentry uniform, which also fit her tightly and reached only her shins.

>At odds with her symmetrical face, button nose, and sharp hazel eyes, she had a vaguely masculine jawline. Her body was broad and she looked strong, as if she were no stranger to dedicated physical exercise. It was sculpted to an athleticism Hress had never seen on a woman.

An example from Wish Mountain of introducing a character's appearance. I don't often do it, but when I do it is important.

[Anonymous No.18237550]

>>18237466
or you can just accept that humans have a complex array of ways to take in and process information and sometimes, to restrict yourself to a single form in order to obey the established conventions of a craft is to be close-minded about the possibilities of human experience through media.

[Anonymous No.18237576]

>>18237397
That's how you should start books. Character wakes up and goes through the morning routine, looking in the mirror, eating breakfast (you have to let the audience know what they like for breakfast).
From then on whenever I introduce a new character I always have them wake up and then study themselves in the mirror. If something happens during the course of the story I have them take a nap and then get some more mirror time. You may not like it, but that's how professional authors do it, so that's how I do it.

[Anonymous No.18237604]

Still have a few things to rework in my ~110k fantasy novel. A few scenes to rewrite, some story considerations to figure out, but it's so close to being done. I ran into some problems with the story because it's my first novel and I just dove in discovery style. To make sure I have fewer problems next time, I started filling out an extensive worldbuilding checklist for my next story, which will be a fantasy/Dying Earth story inspired by Stalker/Roadside Picnic. I spent a good 2-3 hours reading about biomes and climate last night, shit is actually fascinating. And very useful if you want to create a believable world.

Anyway, how do I improve my dialogue? I wonder if there are recordings available online of people having candid conversations, I'd like to study something like that.

>>18233751
>>18233766

Same.

[Anonymous No.18237618]

>>18237550
I'm not knocking other mediums, but to have one piece of art be reliant on other work from a different medium is preposterous. Should you create illustrations of your characters and settings, they should should be supplementary not essential. If your words aren't strong enough to convey your story and message efficiently, then using illustrations as a crutch won't cut it. Work on your prose instead. Else, it's probably best you write a comic book or screenplay. A good novel should stand on its own merits, with any tie-ins to other works (bar prequels and sequels) acting as aides to, not components of, the work as a whole.

[Anonymous No.18237727]

>>18237576
>>18237397
Just like Bateman!

[Anonymous No.18237741]

>>18237618
>but to have one piece of art be reliant on other work from a different medium is preposterous
but it's not really "a different medium" if the prose and illustrations are integrated, specifically designed to go together. is all media stuck being either pure painting, pure literature and pure music?
It's like you're implying film, being fundamentally a visual media about pictures in motion cannot rely on spoken dialogue and music, that would be preposterous and has automatically less value

[Anonymous No.18237979]

>>18237741
>is all media stuck being either pure painting, pure literature and pure music?
Ultimately? No. They're not stuck, as other elements can be incorporated, but any additions to works of those mediums rely on the foundation material. Let's take your example of "pure music". Music needs to have one of two things to be good (ideally both), it needs to sound good and have well written lyrics (if it's not an instrumental piece). The music itself has to be strong, else the supplemental visual elements will be a waste of time. Are there any songs you like purely because of the music video? Of course not, if that's the case then you like the video but not the song. Like with what you're proposing, people may like your illustrations yet find the prose lackluster. Sure, a music video can enhance the audience's experience, but it can't make a bad song good. Just like Illustrations can't repair a poor text.

>pictures in motion cannot rely on spoken dialogue and music
Dialogue and music cannot and will not make a poorly written, poorly direct film a good piece of art. Yet, like music videos and illustrations, they can enhance the work if it's already at a high standard. Are you seriously telling me that a film can rely on good music and well acted dialogue to pick up the slack on an otherwise terrible picture? Because that's what you're saying about your story.
>"I can't write my character descriptions properly so I need illustrations as a crutch"
Never do that. Make the foundation of your work strong and you won't need illustrations to pick up your slack, add them in as supplementary materials to enhance your already good work.

[Anonymous No.18237995]

>think of a story
>it's nothing but a hodgepodge of plot developments and setting trappings I found cool
Should I be worried?

[Anonymous No.18238000]

>>18232025
Depends on what you're writing. Roughly speaking over under 100 pages is a short story, 100-200 is a novella, 300+ is a novel, 1000+ is not going to get published

[Anonymous No.18238019]

>>18237397
Read ultimate writing guide book, dynamic story hooks edition
>>18237576
kek

[Anonymous No.18238055]

>>18238019
>writing guide book, dynamic...
Ultimate author guide to writing dynamite story hooks*
It's unironically a great piece of work I'm surprised isn't written there with tons of analysis of what works and what don't with examples. By memory, the mirror scene is retarded.

[Anonymous No.18238062]

>>18238000
I know that pages on word are sized in A4, what should I resize it to? Surely 300 A4 pages is likely 550 in print?

[Anonymous No.18238071]

>>18233748

creating truly intricate stories is how I make myself happy. Writing them down is how I try to share that happiness with the world in hopes that I can gain enough appreciation from the world to offset 20 years of cringe

[Anonymous No.18238081]

>>18233748
I like some weird things that often don't make enough sense to be published in actual novels. Not just sexual, either.

[Anonymous No.18238140]

Can you recommend writing exercises? I journal every day but am unsure if that directly translates to an improvement in my ability to write fiction. I don't like writing prompts, I prefer to come up with my own characters and plot.

[Anonymous No.18238173]

>>18238140
Post your effort works here or on a writer discord where they do weekly challenges and ask for criticism, it'll help you out a little bit. Also read related works on the first post and edit the stuff you wrote before right after, it'll give you some pointers and you'll be able to reflect on the basic mistakes.

[Anonymous No.18238250]

Can someone point me to some really fun smut authors? My writing style basically hinges on finding stuff I like and emulating it, so some fun reads would be appreciated.

[Anonymous No.18238273]

>>18238250
/smut/ should really be a catalog tag.

[Anonymous No.18238360]

>>18237979
All that is you being under the impression that my prose is necessarily bad and the illustrations are merely about trying to make up for it.

When in fact I'm envisioning an hybrid work that borrows from the two crafts at it's core. Your example of songs with lyrics is also an hybrid, it combines several disciplines but for this demonstration let's just focus on two:
- the "pure" music itself(the instrumental/composition) which is in the realm of sound;
- the lyrics which is in the realm of words, making it so that, to a degree, it even falls within what we refer as "poetry" and by extension, if you think about it, it's not that far off from bits of "literature".

Now are you really gonna tell me that a song needs to be solely focused on the instrumental and the lyrics can only be there as a bonus to supplement it if the musician's artistic vision involved both things at it's core?
Yeah, generally one assumes that the instrumental should be good by itself but you would be stupid to dismiss the lyrics if they are an intrinsical aspect of that particular piece, not an attempt at salvaging the poor instrumental but as a combination of intertwined elements that don't have to be appreciated or judged in a compartmentalized manner since together they are more than the sum of its parts.

tl;dr: it's not that I'm entirely incapable of writing good descriptions, it's just that my vision for a specific work involves presenting things a different(for that instance, better) way and that doesn't necessarily means the writing is bad

[Anonymous No.18238422]

>>18238360
and btw, even if I was terrible at written descriptions and only good(or at least better) at other parts of writing, that would be fine too as there's really nothing wrong about focusing on creating things that play to our strengths and don't dwell much in areas we're not as good at.

[Anonymous No.18238430]

[Anonymous No.18238591]

>>18238430
Terribly unpleasing image of women's sole redeeming quality
Generally mediocre prompts. Maybe if I get one I like

[Anonymous No.18238817]

>>18236164
>>18236254
Gotta love how the posts are next to each other.

The situation in the story makes it all a bit messy, the person in question does a few actions that move the world closer to a civil war and later total chaos; just with minimal amount of violence from them personally (nor ever outright encouraging violence against people) and 99% in case in their defence, while also going out of their way to avoid anything fatal, even if it puts them at a disadvantage.

So any notion of pacifism seems off, while something as general as a hypocrite doesn't seem fitting either.
>>18237291
Sounds like an admission of failure. You're not supposed to give the reader autistic descriptions of stuff, work on your writing to convey your ideas.

[Anonymous No.18238829]

>>18236640
You're missing the opportunity to catch readers attention; it's no different from having a dull/bad cover when it comes to "setting you apart".

[Anonymous No.18238975]

>>18237550
>humans have a complex array of ways to take in and process information
This is an advantage, not a disadvantage. When you lock your audience to a specific mental image with an illustration, you might be unwittingly making the experience worse for them. Maybe they had pictured something more awesome and become disillusioned with the whole story thanks to that? That's why, I think people should think twice before using pictures in their writing.

[Anonymous No.18239491]

>>18238360
>All that is you being under the impression that my prose is necessarily bad and the illustrations are merely about trying to make up for it
Yes and if that's not the case, then your illustrations would be a welcome addition to the piece. I wish you the best of luck on your project anon, just be sure to maintain a good level of quality throughout. Let each aspect be a work of art in their own right.

[Anonymous No.18239525]

What if I just wrote a detective novel instead?

[Anonymous No.18239619]

I hate writing lol

[Anonymous No.18239703]

>>18238062
For this reason (and the fact that font size also makes a difference) it is more helpful to measure in words and not pages. Between 70k and 130k is normal for a novel depending on genre.

[Anonymous No.18239716]

>>18238975
This. I know that the author of some books that I like has drawn his characters and designs and posted them online. I don't seek them out because I don't care what he pictures, I care what I picture. Seeing his autistic drawings would ruin the fun of my own imagination. It's why I read books and not comics or watching other forms of media. If anon wants to write and draw a comic or a picture book then that's fine. But in a regular novel, your accompanying images should be optional so as to not ruin the reader's experience.

[Anonymous No.18239762]

>>18239619
Why?

[Anonymous No.18240077]

>>18239525
Good morning /wg/ it's time to write a detective novel reminiscent of The Naked Gun! film series

[Anonymous No.18240354]

Do you ever shit test your readers just to see if your writing skill is enough to keep them interested?
I have to say it's very encouraging when it pans out.

[Anonymous No.18240475]

>>18240077
Don't call me Luigi

[Anonymous No.18240508]

>>18240354
how do you mean 'shit test'?

[Anonymous No.18240533]

>>18240508
Like put something in your writing that's not palatable for many people. I don't even mean shock value or even political, just something you know is probably unpopular.

[Anonymous No.18240884]

Should I make setting docs for my fantasy stories?
They have different settings but similar magic systems and I want to make sure I have the differentiating details down right, and if they're too similar I can change it up.

[Anonymous No.18240890]

>>18240884
>magic systems
Bro stop this shit and focus on your characters instead. Your setting is nothing. Your magic system is less than nothing. Your characters are everything.

[Anonymous No.18240898]

>>18240884
If you do, use something other than Word unless you want to format everything into difficult columns. I shill Excel when I can get the chance so that's what I would use, with each sheet being based off a template and being filled out with everything I need to know.

[Anonymous No.18240917]

>>18233748
To 'give back' in a sense. To make something that people will enjoy and form a creative community around. Just like how being a part of fandoms and other communities inspired me to want to write when younger.

[Anonymous No.18240931]

>>18240890
I've already done that, anon! This is the second step to help differentiate them and give me a better feel for each story.

>>18240898
I was thinking of making multiple docs, but that's a good idea.

[Anonymous No.18240942]

>>18240931
>I've already done that
I don't believe you. Do it again!

[Anonymous No.18240954]

>>18240931
I did the multiple docs thing myself and I ran into issues where I couldn't clearly remember where I'd written notes down. The Scrivener shill would probably come in about now to tell you how great it is for this, but I'd rather just use Excel and have say, 6 or so sheets, to be sure that I don't miss anything when I need a fact check.

[Anonymous No.18240962]

>>18240954
>I did the multiple docs thing myself and I ran into issues where I couldn't clearly remember where I'd written notes down.
Fuck me, this is too familiar.
While I'll consider scrivener too, any excel sheets you'd recommend?

[Anonymous No.18240963]

Hey /wg/, got some questions for you.
Are there some general things you can do to see if your work is any good? I'm having some trouble stepping back from stuff I've written and being able to evaluate it. I don't want to bother friends by sending big chunks to read.
This is a premise I've been working with, does it sound interesting?
>George, the magician who doesn't believe in magic, has been invited as one of the few eligible to take the test for rank nine. Beforehand he is given two hints, an empty revolver and a simple hand mirror. After being drugged and waking in a room with nine other rank eights, a dead body, and seemingly no way out, he will play a game of deception and deduction to determine who lives, dies, and which one of them becomes a Nine. During the exam George will face the inexplicable and become forced to reexamine the question: is magic real?
I like thrillers and movies and shows that take place in one room or small set, so I wanted to write something that used that same gimmick. I have about 5 pages written and it looks like it might end up around 30. Idk what I'll do with it when finished, maybe just put it out on Amazon.

[Anonymous No.18240970]

>>18240963
The idea of ranks isn't explained here at all so it just leaves me confused.

[Anonymous No.18240975]

>>18240963
If it's interesting to read and makes you think about what could happen in the future. .

[Anonymous No.18240979]

>>18240963
You know the movie 'Perfume'? There's this scene of the execution where he just waves a handkerchief and people start having a spiritual experience.
That's how I figure out if my writing is good. Trust my nose and throw it out there.

[Anonymous No.18240984]

>>18240962
Not really, just set it up how you like. Maybe make the column headers something like Magical Source, Magical Limits, etc. whatever makes you have all the details laid out. And each sheet is just labeled based on the setting.

[Anonymous No.18241019]

>>18240963
>George, the magician who doesn't believe in magic
Now, this could be a very interesting character. Except for the fact that he's rank eight, so presumably he can use magic. If he was an apprentice who merely assumed he was having schizophrenic delusions I could see it, but not at rank eight.

[Anonymous No.18241037]

>>18240963
>Are there some general things you can do to see if your work is any good?
Ask yourself one simple question: are you having fun writing/reading it?

>>18241019
I would assume the character isn't a fantasy wizard, but a circus magician, who does "magic tricks", and not actual spells. Otherwise it makes no sense.

[Anonymous No.18241082]

>>18241019
>>18240970
Gotcha, the ranks make more sense in terms of the story (there's a society of magicians and a structure to it) but that should probably be left out of the description. Replace ranks with, like, being an apprentice.
>>18240979
I'll check it out

[Anonymous No.18241219]

>Write a freedom loving character that wants to push his friend towards social life, who would otherwise live in his workshop.
>In the middle of the story, flipside of that is the lack of commitment and he got by through partnering with others with bribes. His friend got him through the academy after the promise to get him noticed by a famous scientist by setting up dates with his daughter. And the team leader accepted him after a bribe with a lot of personal info from some organizations.

>The friend was supposed to be tech oriented guy with low social skill that holds the scientist in high regard and came to like his daughter.
>But instead of speaking like a human being, he keeps making expensive gifts, as if making one complex device after another automatically leads to requited romance and peer acknowledgement.

[Anonymous No.18241266]

>>18241082
Not the other anons, but I still find it hard to get my head around someone taking a test to be, what I assume, is a good magician, and they can't use magic. I guess it could work in a low magic world but then the fact that they don't believe in magic not so relevant, methinks.

[Anonymous No.18241326]

>>18232730

[Anonymous No.18241370]

>>18240963
>Are there some general things you can do to see if your work is any good?
I don't cringe or get bored when re-reading it after not touching it for a few months.
>This is a premise I've been working with, does it sound interesting?
It's way too detailed for a premise.
>guy who doesn't believe in magic is forced into playing a game with real magicians
Or something along these lines would be a premise. Also I find the main question and conflict pretty dull.

[Anonymous No.18241381]

>>18232806
have the other characters be the voices of reason to make it clear the author isn't using the edgy protagonist as a conduit for their emotional baggage
if it's clear that the world knows the protagonist is retarded then I'm less inclined to dismiss the work as indulgent garbage

[Anonymous No.18241398]

>>18241326
Bad metaphor. In music you generally want to avoid having measures of varying length because normies have no fucking clue what they're listening to when you do that.

[Anonymous No.18241440]

>>18241398
It seems pretty much given in classical music for the sound to vary a lot, even inside a small sonata.

[Anonymous No.18241462]

>>18241266
The way I envisioned it was where magicians have ranks that are equivalent to the level of tricks that they know. After a certain level though, it is believed that they can perform real and proper magic. George is a top rate magician, but he doesn't believe that real magic exists. I was trying to think of the conflict a priest who doesn't believe in God might feel, but then make it a little more fun.

[Anonymous No.18241468]

>>18241440
and classical music was written by musicians for other musicians and especially the nobility who wanted to pretend they were intelligent.
normal people don't listen to classical music. the closest they get is film and video game scores which rarely vary in tempo and time signature.

[Anonymous No.18241486]

>>18241468
>you shouldn't aspire to higher standards of creating because muh plebs
fuck off crab
the metaphor conveys the intention fine, you're just autisitcally hung up on the idea of writing to a mass market audience

[Anonymous No.18241497]

>>18241486
no im saying your metaphor is shit you god damn peabrain

[Anonymous No.18241502]

>>18241468
They might not listen to it as much as other stuff or understand much about it but I haven't found anyone who didn't actually like some classical piece. Even my normie ass sister loves studying to Chopin, Bach and Schubert.

[Anonymous No.18241517]

>>18241497
the metaphor is fine you zero reading comp peabrain
it conveys the intention
your argument that the metaphor is bad presides on the idea that it won't be conductive to understanding the message because the mass market doesn't understand complex music, which is a dumb fuck point to try and make

it's not mine or any other anons quote, it's a shitty self help writer's advice

[Anonymous No.18241536]

>>18241326
He lost me on the blue lines tho

[Anonymous No.18241538]

>>18241517
you are reading things which are not there
it is a shit metaphor. that is my stance. you can either take that criticism and use it to improve your shitty self-help advice, or you can pretend that im just a crab in the bucket trying to pull you down.
but i can't pull you down because you're already beneath me. You're the crab at the bottom of the pile and im the sunlight on the other side begging you to see that the world beyond those plastic walls is so beautiful and full of life. Come back with a better metaphor or keep wallowing in your misery. I'll survive either way. You can't say the same.

[Anonymous No.18241546]

>>18241538
your reading comprehension is embarrassing
it's 5 lines on a mongolian lyre stringing forum

[Anonymous No.18241561]

>>18241546
yup that's how it is
you're ngmi

[Anonymous No.18241597]

>>18241561
>In music you generally want to avoid having measures of varying length
claim
>because normies have no fucking clue what they're listening to when you do that.
defense
>n-ngmi
read a book before you try to construct a narrative on a shit posting bulletin board

[Anonymous No.18241633]

>>18241398
>In music you generally want to avoid having measures of varying length
You are incorrect to say that the musical equivalent of a sentence would be a measure.
In written music, it's common for a single complete musical thought that extends over multiple measures to be contrasted with multiple musical thoughts contained in a single measure. This can be observed with even the simplest nursery rhymes.

The poem isn't saying that good music contains measures of varying lengths, but musical ideas of varying lengths.

[Anonymous No.18241684]

>>18240533
>I don't even mean shock value or even political, just something you know is probably unpopular
So, what? Yu-gi-oh references?

[Anonymous No.18241703]

>>18241468
you are a deeply pretentious person, and you don't know half as much as you imagine you do.

[Anonymous No.18241722]

>>18241703
So basically, he's the average 4chains poster.

[Anonymous No.18241724]

>>18241703
wrong
when i dont know something i ask a question and get an answer and use criticism to improve myself. you can't say the same.

[Anonymous No.18241745]

>>18241724
dumb fucking schizo
your not criticizing anybody
it's a quote from self help writer Gary Provost, I fucking told you this
you god damn dumb fucking zero reading comprehension piece of shit. why the fuck are you so concerned with defending your stupid pseudo intellectual claim. the only basis it has is on an aesthetic of distinction from the mass market

[Anonymous No.18241777]

>>18241724
>more presumptuous nigger babble
again, you don't know half of what you imagine you do.

[Anonymous No.18241794]

>bullying pseud who hands out empty opinions
feels like /wg/ again
too much hand holding and worthless anime opinions
anime is only good for getting you writing. don't use it as a substitute for literature based sensibilities

[Anonymous No.18241800]

>>18241794
>nigger babble

[Anonymous No.18241802]

>sentence fragments
are they good to use in some circumstances or should i eschew them entirely?

[Anonymous No.18241810]

>>18241802
>should I adhere solely to the advice of people who were more concerned with selling self help books than the craft of writing
it's fine, just be deliberate with them

[Anonymous No.18241842]

>>18241794
i don't watch anime
that was the first step i took to improving myself and my writing

[Anonymous No.18241881]

>>18241842
I'll always respect anime as a gateway drug and driving force for new writers but it's obnoxious always seeing aspiring light novel writers talking about literary concepts with their low level opinions and knowledge
It's one thing to be an anime writer, different strokes. But it's one hell of another thing to be an anime writer and make decisive statements about writing and literature

[Anonymous No.18241994]

>We considered your poetry submissions with pleasure but won't be publishing it for our current cycle. Unfortunately, the tone isn't quite right for us at the moment. Otherwise, the poems are fundamentally sound and have rhythm. Bear in mind how subjective literature is and that these are only our views. It may well be that other sources would love your work just as it is.

What the fuck kind of rejection letter is this

[Anonymous No.18241999]

>>18241994
write about the racial superiority of american minorities next time

[Anonymous No.18242059]

>>18241326
But I like the red. I like having consistency. I enjoy having predictability. I am an autistic man. This discrimination will not stand.

[Anonymous No.18242075]

>>18242059
>he likes baby prose
oh no no no

[Anonymous No.18242082]

>>18242075
based Krypto

[Anonymous No.18242099]

>>18241326
This concept is correct but this image reads like it was written by a high school girl.

[Anonymous No.18242108]

>>18241881
It's really interesting to see the dynamic when it comes to anime and writing. Anime (and I guess TV in general, but anime to a greater extent) has such low standards when it comes to storytelling. Then they enter a writing community and start talking about how deep and meaningful evangelion was while writing stories with pure-female casts that revolve around "epic" fight scenes and cool tech/magic and a lot of edgy things, usually something involving god.

>>18242099
Not really, just cliched.

[Anonymous No.18242118]

>>18242108
>pseud babble trying to shame ME
lol

[Anonymous No.18242124]

>>18242118
are you well?

[Anonymous No.18242183]

>>18242118
what the fuck is ME

[Anonymous No.18242189]

>>18242183
meez nuts

[Anonymous No.18242212]

>>18242108
>Anime has such low standards when it comes to storytelling.
Nah pseud. Anime has decent storytelling that is only eclipsed by the best of literature. People who watch anime get exposed to the same elements that are in literature, minus the prose aspect.

The problem is that people are writing literature with the desire to actually be writing anime. They write not considering word count, but instead how their story would fit in a manga arc or twelve episode season. It's fine to include cute girls and giant robots, as long as you know you're writing a novel and want to be writing a novel.

>thinking Evangelion isn't meaningful
Peak pseud. You will never be Proust or Joyce or even Hemingway. Probably not even Salinger. I bet you play video games.

[Anonymous No.18242239]

>>18242212
>Anime has decent storytelling that is only eclipsed by the best of literature.

I'm an animechad but even I know most anime have pretty barebones storytelling that is only watchable because media in general is not very good. Come on anon.

[Anonymous No.18242245]

>>18242212
whats your favorite book and why

[Anonymous No.18242249]

>>18242212
>I bet you play videogames.
Most men do.
>You will never be so much as a Hemingway
Yet even a baboon with a typewriter can see that evangelion is meaningless drivel.
>Anime has decent storytelling that is only eclipsed by the best of literature
Okay, I laughed

[Anonymous No.18242259]

>>18242239
>pretty barebones storytelling that is only watchable because media in general is not very good
That happens to most fiction books. The advantage LNs, manga and anime have is variety in story elements or/and portrayal.

[Anonymous No.18242270]

>>18242108
>tfw stories often have the presence of god as an active part of the plot
>don't watch anime or read web serials
fugg

[Anonymous No.18242271]

>>18242239
And most literature doesn't? The vast majority of popular literature nowadays is usually about some dumb shit like an independent womyn protagonist navigating royal court intrigue or having a mid-life crisis. Anime and literature have the same ratio of works with merit.

To reiterate, I'm not saying that anime is a replacement for literature when teaching writing skills. I'm saying that literature and anime hold equal merit, just in different ways.
>>18242245
Flannery O'Connor's Complete Stories
>>18242249
>Most men do.
Oh no no no he admitted it.

[Anonymous No.18242278]

>>18242212
>Anime has decent storytelling that is only eclipsed by the best of literature
if you had said manga I would have agreed.
>I bet you play video games.
Pathologic 2 is better and more densely written than any anime I've ever seen, though I'd like to add that video games are necessarily about story telling, and some of them have little to no text. Rain World does a good job immersing the player in it's themes with very little dialogue and a story that is very rudimentary.

[Anonymous No.18242281]

>>18242271
Well I am a programmer, writing is just a hobby for me. Would be weird to be a programmer who doesn't play any games at all.

[Anonymous No.18242292]

>>18242278
>are necessarily
*are NOT necessarily

[Anonymous No.18242293]

>>18242239
Shakespeare is barebones storytelling too, so what? Something like Code Geass is just a modern version.

[Anonymous No.18242333]

>>18242293
Dude. Come on. I'm even one of those people who believes a lot of older works (particularly shit like Dante's inferno) are garbage that should not be considered examples of good writing. I also believe modern writing (i.e. 1920's and ahead) are just vastly better than anything that came before that. But Code Geass is DEFINITELY not it chief.

[Anonymous No.18242403]

>>18242333
Meh, hard disagree on all three. I found a lot of older works boring as fuck and generally don't like poems but Divine Comedy was damn stunning (and I'm not using it lightly), and felt much more impressive than anything ever written in Burgerland for example. Meanwhile I don't recall any work from the last century as entertaining as Code Geass, despite all the obvious flaws. And stuff past the 19th century mostly feels like a waste of time anyway, as if there is a global writing block that infected most writers.

[Anonymous No.18242415]

>>18241381
Different anon, but this is the solution I came up with as well.

[Anonymous No.18242422]

>>18242293
>for example: kill the japanese
Code Geass is bad by every standard.

[Anonymous No.18242447]

>>18242422
Cocky character fucks shit up. Just your usual tragic flaw but executed in a way that feels like a diablo ex machina ... and still perfectly fits the overly dramatic tone of the work.

[Anonymous No.18242451]

>>18242403
Yeah I'm just going to label you as a pseud and move on.

[Anonymous No.18242473]

>>18242451
Makes things much easier than actually thinking about our opinions. Though less arguing online and more writing is what people in this thread probably should do anyway.

[Anonymous No.18242496]

>>18242447
now this is reaching

[Anonymous No.18242503]

>>18242447
R1 was ok r2 was a convoluted mess of characters all high school episodes were beyond irritation

[Anonymous No.18242553]

>>18242259
>>18242271
Okay yes I agree, I just felt that saying anime was only surpassed by the best of literature implied that anime was a bastion of high art. I agree that, in general, it's not a lower art form.

>>18242293
Barebones was probably me using the wrong word. I meant that it's nothing special or amazing, and that a lot of anime range from average to mediocre.

>>18242293
I really like Code Geass but comparing Shakespeare to Code Geass feels really weird. One is a hype rule of cool adventure whereas Shakespeare is often more about how it's written and the themes behind it.

I could understand if you maybe tried to use something like AoT, FMA, or Steins Gate, but I still think those would be a stretch. I think it's hard to compare Shakespeare to TV shows in general, regardless of their themes or quality.

[Anonymous No.18242583]

>>18242553
>Shakespeare is often more about how it's written and the themes behind it.
Do you really think Shakespeare tried to do high art? He went with the rule of cool too, to sell shows

[Anonymous No.18242830]

>>18242553
Sounds like you're putting too much weight into modern interpretations for Willy. His work was very ham-y in your face entertainment for the masses with more dick jokes than the average rapper. Something like the Euphimia accident would be totally in his ball park.

AoT and FMA lack the humor, ham and generally take themselves too seriously. Steins Gate seems thematically too far off, while CG's focus on revenge, love for over the top drama/tragedy and the conflict over change from Lulu/Suzaku are pure Shakespeare. Even Blast of the Tempest doesn't come as close despite quoting him all the time.

It generally seems people don't quite get CG and focus on the wrong things (see all the comparisons with Death Note) Try viewing it as a screenplay with the goal to entertain the audience.

[Anonymous No.18242987]

How much time to people spend writing in a day? I heard about people who make a living from it spending almost a full working day on writing, but I can't imagined doing it for more than 2-3 hours. Maybe in editing, still seems too much.

[Anonymous No.18243161]

>>18242239
Yeah. Even most weekly soaps have better structure in storytelling than manga/anime.
There are exceptions but it's not a great medium to learn the craft.
>>18242987
I guess "I'm editing" is the writing equivalent of "it's compiling".

[Anonymous No.18243202]

>>18242987
Don't consider time. Don't consider page count. Only consider word count.

[Anonymous No.18243207]

>>18242583
anon, shakespeare isn't revered for his plots. Nothing in code geass is beautiful or as human. The fact that CG is also illogical makes it bad even as genre fiction and anime
Watch Utena, you dirty secondary

[Anonymous No.18243246]

>>18242987
Anything from 1 to 24h. My average is probably 4h though. When editing, maybe 8h, depending on how it goes.
>>18243161
Nah, editing is more of searching for bugs.

[Anonymous No.18243417]

>>18241633
It's wrong either way.

[Anonymous No.18243459]

>>18242987
I think I wrote up over 4k in one day over 10 hours or so. I think I usually spend around 4hrs or so writing, maybe more, maybe less. Editing probably takes about 1-2 hrs tops before I'm done with a chapter.

[Anonymous No.18243692]

>>18242987
I spend like an hour a day and get fuck all done :'(

[Anonymous No.18243713]

>>18242987
20 mins

[Anonymous No.18243778]

Seeing shit about the new castlevania season brought something to my attention. Why do some many writers create gay elements for pity points and emotional bait?

[Anonymous No.18243820]

>>18243778
because writing is hard but pandering is easy

[Anonymous No.18243824]

>>18243778
1. hatred of the straights
2. self-hatred of the straights
3. fujoshits

[Anonymous No.18243909]

>>18243820
>>18243824
They do know they don't need to write pure misery when writing gsy elements right? I understand pandering. Nothing wrong with it. Not every piece of art needs to aspire to be serious, it's alright for straight elements as well. It just seems that on the rare occasions gay elements ARE made, it's always associated with situations clearly meant as emotional bait.

[Anonymous No.18244241]

what's the secret to quality storytelling?

[Anonymous No.18244255]

>>18244241
have something to say and use everything in your skillset to say it

[Anonymous No.18244323]

>>18244241
Be based, don't be cringe.

[Anonymous No.18244396]

>>18244241
Taking preexisting plot diagram templates and filling them out with your plot points.

[Anonymous No.18244399]

>>18244396
oh you little scamp

[Anonymous No.18244443]

>>18244241
Watching good movies

[Anonymous No.18244896]

Why can't I find the weekend novelist anywhere?

[Anonymous No.18244900]

What are your guys' feelings on a story in which the climax is a fork in the road situation. I'm thinking of a story where basically the character chooses to oversee the expansion of his small family business or to dedicate that time to his pregnant girlfriend and raising their child. Is this boring? What are some better examples of a story's climax?

[Anonymous No.18244931]

>>18244900
>Is this boring?
This question can be answered by the following question: is this something you would want to read yourself?

[Anonymous No.18244959]

>>18243778
>for pity points and emotional bait?
So it seems, so it seems.
>>18244900
>Is this boring?
Is it written boring or written in an engaging way?

[Anonymous No.18245282]

>>18231972
Too often when I read Science Fiction novels I find myself having to put them down because I'm overwhelmed by endless descriptions of technology that I genuinely don't care about.

With this one, I was actually able to get into the story because I wasn't forced to read about how many ion cannons there are on each side of the ship. There are interesting characters with a lot of personality, and a story that makes sense without having to infodump every other page. Right from the start you're being thrown into an interesting story, and are shown characters that you'll actually find yourself caring about very early on.
The grammar is consistently great, and the author has a style that stands apart from everything else I've read on this site. I don't have anything but praise in this regard. When I first started reading this I came across a few mistakes here and there, but the author has since gone back and rewritten a lot of his earlier chapters to make them better.

If you like Legend of the Galactic Heroes, and space operas in general, you're definitely not going to want to miss this novel. The author also takes the time to include pretty decent illustrations within the chapters, which I find to be a very nice addition.

[Anonymous No.18245301]

>>18245282
I’ll check it out, I’ve been seeing this story pop up here every so often that I want to know what’s so great about it.

[Anonymous No.18245335]

Just dropping by to say that I'm committing to writing a novel first the first time and I'm loving it. I thought it was going to be a comic for so long but there's not enough time in my life to draw it.

[Anonymous No.18245369]

>Write a capepunk story.
>There’s very little action and mostly deal with social shit.
Don’t know if I should follow through with it.

[Anonymous No.18245384]

>>18245369
Is it good? If so, follow through

[Anonymous No.18245413]

>I have a fleshed out expansive world, not a story
>I want to set a personal narrative in said world
>I want to do so episodically
- How do I find what's the best story to take advantage of and display the world without making it about the world itself?
- How do I identify what determines how/why the story is split into chunks?

[Anonymous No.18245418]

>>18245384
Unless reading a story about a anti-social girl that has some budding sociopathic tendencies and repressed incestuous feelings for her brother is good then sure.

[Anonymous No.18245420]

>>18245413
You have no story because you have no characters. Start with characters.

[Anonymous No.18245422]

>>18245413
Just use something similar you like as a blueprint

[Anonymous No.18245425]

>>18245418
If you don't think it's good then why are you writing it?

[Anonymous No.18245457]

>>18245418
I mean, using superpowers as a representation of issues in the personal life of the people with the powers has always been a thing. It really depends what the plot itself is. Sure this is a summary, but it doesn't tell us much about whether it'll be good.

>>18245425 is right. If you don't think that's good why write it?

[Anonymous No.18245467]

>>18245425
>>18245457
I never said it wasn’t good, just that the intended audience isn’t going to like it since there’s very little action.

[Anonymous No.18245470]

Is Royal Road a trap? Will posting there hurt my chances of being published by association?

[Anonymous No.18245473]

>>18245470
You will never be publish traditionally so get rid of that delusion right now.

[Anonymous No.18245474]

>>18245467
I mean... either write it or don't. If it's good, someone will like it.

[Anonymous No.18245475]

>>18245473
Why? Is there some barrier? If there is, it's definitely not quality.

[Anonymous No.18245485]

>>18245475
2% of manuscripts are published. You are not in that 2%, because if you were you'd be writing instead of posting on 4chan

[Anonymous No.18245488]

>>18245485
I write several pages a day. Don't project your insecurities onto me.

[Anonymous No.18245493]

>>18245488
>I write several pages a day
So do several animefags, what’s your point?

[Anonymous No.18245504]

>>18245488
>he measures his output in pages
NGMI

[Anonymous No.18245506]

>>18245493
You're just going to move the goalposts, then? I'm secure enough in my ability that I don't need to prove my worth to some stranger on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.18245513]

>>18245470
>>18245506
Why not use a pseudo name if your that worried about it?

[Anonymous No.18245515]

>>18245506
>I'm secure enough in my ability that I don't need to prove my worth to some stranger on 4chan.
So do the Animefags,I don’t see the point you’re trying to make In typing that.

[Anonymous No.18245522]

>Okey there's these twin cities. One is made of gold governed by a God who gives them everything and the other one is made out of people terrorized by this G-

Got myself writing anti-Israel propaganda again baka.

[Anonymous No.18245530]

>>18245513
I'm not as worried as it might being coming across, but I'm talking about writing the book, posting the chapters on RR, then trying to get that same book published. A pseudonym wouldn't really hide that it's the same book. I don't know if anyone here has actually worked with a publisher before and has some insight into whether that would complicate things or not.

[Anonymous No.18245537]

>>18243207
You didn't read or understand my post. Or do you actually believe people valued the same things in fiction 500 years ago?

>Nothing in code geass is beautiful or as human. The fact that CG is also illogical
That's just, like, your opinion man. What underdeveloped idiot demands humanity and logic at the same time, anyway? Humans aren't logical.

[Anonymous No.18245546]

>>18242987
>I can't imagined doing it for more than 2-3 hours
I write the minimum of 8 hours a day, every day except weekends. Sometimes 10.

[Anonymous No.18245565]

>>18245530
https://www.royalroad.com/forums/thread/109870
Here's a current discussion on the subject. Due to licensing issues it could cause problems. If you get published you will have to take the work off Royalroad.

[Anonymous No.18245570]

Anyone know of any publishers of religious poetry? All I've found so far is strictly Christian presses, I'm looking for a company with a more perennialist catalog who accept things from different religious perspectives

[Anonymous No.18245583]

>>18245565
Thank you for a serious response/resource. I'd have no issue deleting it from the internet in a situation like that, so it's good to hear.

[Anonymous No.18245601]

>>18245530
>I'm talking about writing the book, posting the chapters on RR, then trying to get that same book published.
How many times does it need to be said DON'T DO THAT. Why the fuck would you post your shit online before trying to get a publisher, if you actually want to get it traditionally published. "To build an audience"? Fuck marketing is the publisher's headache if they take your book. "To test the grounds"? Your agent's/editor's opinion is the only thing that matters. So DON'T DO IT. DON'T DO IT, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT DUMBASS. Christ.

[Anonymous No.18245618]

>>18245601
Alright bitch, calm down

[Anonymous No.18245655]

>>18245570
Just settle for the strictly Christian presses

[Anonymous No.18245701]

>>18245413
write characters and scenarios that incorporate the most interesting aspects of said world. for example, if it were a sci-fi setting where there's a space faction and a terrestrial faction, make a plot that involves exploiting the tension between them, and write scenarios that have characters from the two factions coming into conflict with each other over their divergent values in order to express/complicate the political realities you've baked into the setting

[Anonymous No.18245766]

>>18245474
You’re right, still, I kinda wanted to write for a more general audience and not a niche one.

[Anonymous No.18245786]

>>18245766
You can write other stories

[Anonymous No.18245790]

>>18245786
I’ll rather focus on one.

[Anonymous No.18245820]

>>18245335
What's the story about?

[Anonymous No.18245853]

>>18232992
I wish there were more females in military uniforms.

[Anonymous No.18245889]

>>18233748
Because I can, nothing more and nothing less.

[Anonymous No.18245898]

>>18233748
It's a fun hobby that I indulge in every now and again.

[Anonymous No.18245903]

>>18245766
I think if it's a good story people will read it, regardless of the niche. There's a lot of popular stuff today that would probably be considered niche when it was created.

[Anonymous No.18245906]

>>18245522
How is the Israel situation any different from only colonizers?
>>18245530
>posting the chapters on RR, then trying to get that same book published
Unless it happens to be a HUGE success like 50 shades, you can basically forget it.

[Anonymous No.18245909]

>>18245906
>Unless it happens to be a HUGE success like 50 shades, you can basically forget it.
A few series started out as web novels. Throne of glass is one example, the same as Martian.

[Anonymous No.18245919]

>>18245903
You’re probably right and I’m just being pessimistic.

[Anonymous No.18245935]

>>18245919
No worries, I'm pretty pessimistic too, I cringe when reading my own stuff even though it's probably not that bad. I think it's just practice eventually.

[Anonymous No.18245936]

>>18245906
>50 shades
Still can't believe a twilight fanfiction is a best seller.

[Anonymous No.18245940]

>>18245909
No clue about ToG but Martian was pretty huge too, and if I recall right, the writer was approached based on it.

[Anonymous No.18245946]

>>18245940
>ToG
Throne of glass was pretty big in fiction press. And for the most part, nothing has really change since being traditionally published.

[Anonymous No.18245954]

>>18245935
Again, thanks for the reassurance.

[Anonymous No.18245959]

>>18245940
Why don’t more publishers do that more often?

[Anonymous No.18245973]

>>18245959
Probably some stupid as reason about quality.

[Anonymous No.18245990]

>>18233860
Congrats on releasing eleven chapters.

[Anonymous No.18245996]

>>18237291
Old novels did it, don’t see why you shouldn’t.

[Anonymous No.18246006]

>>18245959
But they do? It's just few works without a publisher ever get big enough to be noticed. If you had half a million readers on your RR story and a few thousands reviews, publishers would spam you with offers.

Shit, it's basically like with any other jobs. While you're a nobody, you send out job applications. When you're somewhat established, recruiters beg you to work for them.

[Anonymous No.18246009]

>>18246006
Name a few other than the ones that have been mentioned already.

[Anonymous No.18246014]

>>18245946
>Throne of glass was pretty big in fiction press
Didn’t know that.

[Anonymous No.18246017]

New thread
>>18246015

[Anonymous No.18246037]

>>18246009
I don't know any other self-published stories or FF that got large enough for anyone to care.

[Anonymous No.18246040]

>>18245959
Japanese publishers do that often with webnovels, and if the webnovel-turned-LN is successful, it might get a manga, or a more expensive medium like animation

But for usa, amazon is a monopoly for publishing while the market for cheaper adaptations like comics or animation is taken over by Disney and such. And a lot of people don't care about books outside of work or non-fiction that is thought of as useful to personal growth.

[Anonymous No.18246056]

>>18246006
>If you had half a million readers on your RR story and a few thousands reviews, publishers would spam you with offers.
No, they don't.

[Anonymous No.18246265]

>>18245583
It doesn't matter whether you delete it, if it's already been published online then a publisher won't want it because your audience has already read most of it for free. You can put something on there and try and trad publish something else. But like the other anon says, you can't publish something you've already put online unless it reaches 50 shades of grey success.

[Anonymous No.18246366]

>>18245369
Action is not a written medium thing. Soldiers spend 99% of their time not getting shot at. Pre-gunpowder armies had ONE freaking battle and then they went home. Sieges are encircling a town and waiting for people to starve, or at the apex of siege warfare, shooting cannons and digging tunnels.
Hell even Musashi, THE quintessential duelist archetype knew that most fights were settled in a single blow.
The reason there's at best a 1-10 ratio of action to not action is because otherwise it's not action, because it's not dangerous or crucial. See Crichton's posthumously released Pirate Latitudes. It has only a few big action scenes for a pirate story and they stick because of that.
A few 40k novels actually make the mistake of being just anime-LN style dude fighting books and they are boring as sin.