/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18160702]

Umberto Eco's list of 14 common features of Fascism

1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”

[Anonymous No.18160716]

>>18160702
>14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”
Oh wow I didn't know fascists were running the public education system for the last 50 years! Damn I must join the Antifa now fucking fascist chuds

[Anonymous No.18160740]

>>18160716
Why do white people reply like this?

[Anonymous No.18160748]

>>18160716
You don't know how to read.

[Anonymous No.18160756]

>>18160740
I'm not white
>>18160748
Yeah and you can't criticize me for it because I'm black you fucking rightoid fascist chud have sex

[Anonymous No.18160771]

>>18160702
>8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “
kek this one is very true

[Anonymous No.18160772]

>>18160702
>1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
But fascism started as an offshoot of socialism, and had significant influence from futurism; both fundamentally anti-traditionalist ideologies. Why would Mussolini's Italy have incredible focus on futurist art and architecture if this were true? Why would fascists also put a high emphasis on new technology then, even if this is meant solely for warfare.
>2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
Rationalism existed before the Enlightenment, and while fascism is anti-enlightenment, it is certainly not anti-modern. Fascism, which is once again derived from socialism, is a modern ideology, and a modern reaction.
>3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
Just two lines ago it was claimed fascism has thinkers. Why would fascists consider thinking emasculation? Fascism's leaders are all authors with multiple books published. Some are even high ranking academics like that esoteric occult guy people keep posting on /pol/ (I think his name is Dr. Pierce?)
>4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
True
>5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
True
>6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
Every ideology that isn't the status quo works like this. It is just a difference of appealing to whose frustration.
>7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
This can be said of other ideologies and is thus not exclusive to fascism.

[Anonymous No.18160773]

>>18160702
>The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.
This one might be the silliest, fascism is fundamentally modernist. Read Roger Griffin instead

[Anonymous No.18160782]

>>18160702
I mean the lgbtsjwtfnpc marxist cattle are going to call you a fascist for the crime of reading old books holding thpughts unapproved by corporate media ot not wanting children to be molested, so you cant help but wonder gee can fascism be really all that bad?

[Anonymous No.18160797]

>>18160772
>8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
True
>9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
True but could be worded better.
>10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
True
>11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
This appears in other ideologies but in different forms. In Liberalism for example, everyone is educated to be a "good" person; in Socialism everyone is educated to be a revolutionary.
>12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
True
>13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
True but could be worded better
>14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”
LOLing at the idea people actually believe this, considering Liberal schoolbooks are notoriously crappy and also filled with propaganda. But then again this guy probably believes anything to the right of Lenin is fascism.

[Anonymous No.18160800]

>>18160702
>4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
>14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”

[Anonymous No.18160804]

>>18160702
So Ur-Fascism is just representative democracy? It checks almost every single box

3. Cult of action for action's sake (though not as a form of emasculation): cancel and protest culture, vandalism, etc.
4. Disagreement is treason: if you disagree with representative "democracy" you're anti-democratic which is "always bad"
5. Fear of difference: the intruders in this case being outside arguments against the establishment
6. Appeal to social frustration: "One of the most typical features of the representative democracy was\is the appeal to frustrated minorities, suffering from economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of what they deem to be lower social groups"
7. The obsession with a plot: "Thus at the root of the RD psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an internal one (nazis\commies in the white house, among us). The followers must be besieged (cold war paranoia? Nixon mindset?)
8. The enemy is both strong and weak: white supremacists are fat basement dwellers but also the most dangerous group.
9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy: don't debate a x, punch them.
11. Everybody is educated to become a snowflake: "In RD ideology, snowflakeism is the norm. You are convinced that you are different and going to make an impact in society by parroting the same ideas and catchprases (my body, my rules, etc.) without actually developing these ideas."
13. Selective populism: self explanatory
14. Newspeak: self-explanatory. Schools being dumbed down, fake critical thinking, etc.

[Anonymous No.18160812]

>>18160756
You've got a point though. Operation Paperclip is real and there's plenty of undercover fascism going on in American political theory since WWII at least.

[Anonymous No.18160828]

>>18160702
>Dutch speaker
>obsessed with fascism
>keeps shilling retard Eco
(((Hmmm)))

[Anonymous No.18160836]

>>18160800
Yeah most of the rest ones made some sense but these were laughable.

[Anonymous No.18160843]

>>18160702
Under that poor definition, any political system has been fascist in some period.

[Anonymous No.18160850]

>>18160702
>5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
Mussolini's Italy was pretty diverse and he hoped to bring all the people together. That was until he met Hitler. So I don't think it's inherently racist as much as it is exclusionist.

[Anonymous No.18160855]

Eco is just a crusty old narcissistic Boomer, fat off his own success and still mentally living in the 70s. He never grew up. Belbo's character is an authorial confession of his own arrested development.

His historical novels are the best though.

[Anonymous No.18160857]

>>18160702
>8. The enemy is both strong and weak
This is a common aspect of all forms of propaganda. An enemy has to appear strong in order to provoke a response from the propagandee, and he has to appear weak in order to convince him that victory is possible.

[Anonymous No.18160863]

>>18160828
>4. Disagreement is treason.
>7. The obsession with a plot.

[Anonymous No.18160871]

>>18160756
You aren't fooling anyone

[Anonymous No.18160885]

>>18160863
>4. Disagreement is treason.
Like cancel culture?
>7. The obsession with a plot.
Like seeing fascism everywhere?

[Anonymous No.18160888]

>>18160773
>fascism is fundamentally modernist
Yet they tell themselves they are trads
Ring familiar?
It's because you are fucking retards

[Anonymous No.18160890]

>>18160702
3,4,5,6,7,8,9,12,13, and 14 all apply to communists and some forms of liberalism as well. And i'd say that 1 and 2 dont really apply to fascism, which is inherently a modernist ideology. Pointing towards occultism as evidence for "fascism=traditionalist" when Mussolini despised the church and Hitler broke with Prussianism is stupid.
Stupid list

[Anonymous No.18160896]

>>18160740
As aprivileged white man who is trying to overcome internalized prejudices towards the queer community which are some books i can read which can help me appreciate the diverse and vibrant culture of these politically correct victimhood units i mean these most noble and progressive of creatures?

[Anonymous No.18160897]

>>18160885
Fuck you, fascist.

[Anonymous No.18160904]

>>18160896
last exit to brooklyn

[Anonymous No.18160905]

>>18160897
>4. Disagreement is treason.
>7. The obsession with a plot.

[Anonymous No.18160909]

>>18160890
They apply to totalitarian ideologies in general, as someone already pointed out, fascism is just a Stalinist LARP dressed up in trad costumes

[Anonymous No.18160910]

>>18160885
>Like cancel culture?
>if you question fascism that means you're a wokefag

>Like seeing fascism everywhere?
>says the /pol/tard is still caring about muh joos

[Anonymous No.18160930]

>>18160910
Back to redddit, faggot

[Anonymous No.18160969]

>>18160890
Read 1. again and see if you can figure out where you're wrong.

[Anonymous No.18160974]

>>18160930
Nice rebuttal, faggot.

[Anonymous No.18160982]

>>18160974
Thanks

[Anonymous No.18160984]

>>18160969
There's nothing traditionalist about occultism, anon

[Anonymous No.18160994]

>>18160702
A mostly superficial idealist analysis, lacking in all materialist conditionality.
Here are some necessary, if not sufficient conditions to fascism.
1. Total subordination of all aspects of life, private and public, to the state (totalitarianism)
2. Glorification of the nation as the fundamental unit of society
3. Bio-organicism: the view of society as a calibrated ethnic and genetic superorganismic whole, the biological essentialization of society. Dysgenic elements, like cancer cells, must removed and the eugenic purity of the nation-race must be maintained
4. Militarism: the veneration of the military and the allocation of the lion-share of social and economic resources to its maximization and optimization
5. Führerprinzip: rallying around a deified and infallible leader, depicted as a savior of the nation
6. Irredentism: the mission of reviving lost former national greatness
7. Expansionism: a program of aggressive conquest or the antagonistic outward explosion of national energies
8. Reality distortion: ideological overwrites of facts. The media is depicted as a corrupter and liar, information is manipulated, education is turned into an instrument of propaganda in service of fascist ideology
9. Gleichschaltung, or forced coordination: the coercive restructuring of private industry to be completely subordinate to the needs of the state

[Anonymous No.18161001]

>>18160994
>Commie describes his own ideology without realizing it

[Anonymous No.18161012]

>>18160994
>3. Bio-organicism:
See: >>18160850

[Anonymous No.18161018]

This list is not a criticism. Eco was a fascist thinker.

[Anonymous No.18161025]

>>18160716
Wow I didn't know the illiterate browsed /lit/. Good on you for trying to learn.

[Anonymous No.18161026]

>>18160994
>Bio-organicism
>Führerprinzip
Those are characteristics of Nazism, not fascism.
>Reality distortion
All ideologies do that.

[Anonymous No.18161030]

>>18160909
How would fascism be a Stalinist LARP is fascism and it's immediate predecessors predate Stalinism? Isn't Stalinism a fascist LARP painted red?

[Anonymous No.18161034]

>>18160702
>rejection of modernism
>thinks enlightenment modernism
>fails to recognize fascism as the epitome of post modernism

what a retard.

[Anonymous No.18161042]

I consider myself a fascist and this is my left values score.

Wat do

[Anonymous No.18161061]

Italian fascism is just regular fascism but with spaghetti sauce on top.

[Anonymous No.18161073]

>>18161061
Italian fascism was the only place fascism really existed.

[Anonymous No.18161086]

>>18161061
what kind of spaghetti sauce? bolognese?

[Anonymous No.18161099]

>placing the authority on what constitutes Fascism on one person who wasn't even a Fascist

Yikes.

[Anonymous No.18161103]

>>18161086
the manifesto of the fascist intellectuals was published in bologna

[Anonymous No.18161106]

>>18161042
There is little difference between commies and fascists.

[Anonymous No.18161126]

>>18161106
One is financed by jews and the other hates jews

[Anonymous No.18161146]

>>18161018

Forgive the pinkos, they haven't even gotten around to reading their Marx, much less engaged in study of anyone else.

From 'bert:

>Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots.

[Anonymous No.18161149]

>>18161106
commies think consciousness is a product of the material environment, whereas i think consciousness is what creates the material environment. I also believe in the state and only the state but what I think constitutes as "state" is completely different than what a commie thinks the state is because I think that everything is literally the state

also my result which comes out as a "leftcom" is so "left wing" that lenin woulf have put me into gulag had he the chance. He even wrote a book about it called < "Left-Wing" Communism: An Infantile Disorder >

>>18161126
Neither of those statements are true.

[Anonymous No.18161179]

>>18161146
Based Eco. I miss him so much bros

[Anonymous No.18161203]

>>18161146
My my, sounding a bit fascist there Umberto

[Anonymous No.18161216]

>>18161149
>Neither of those statements are true.
Are you retarded? Communism was set up by wealthy international jews, and fascism is mostly looked down upon for it's "antisemitism" more than anything else

[Anonymous No.18161249]

>>18161216
>Communism was set up by wealthy international jews
No it wasn't.
>and fascism is mostly looked down upon for it's "antisemitism" more than anything else
Because illiterates conflate national socialism with fascism.

[Anonymous No.18161250]

Umberto is a pseud. All save a few of these features apply just as well to populist far-left/communist movements, if not liberalism itself. That, and some of these are blatantly ignorant of actual tenants of fascist ideology . His entire work is a half-assed reaction against, not fleshed examination of, fascism.

>t. non-fascist

[Anonymous No.18161258]

>>18161216
The Fascist Party of Italy had a good number of Jews in it. Even one of Mussolini's many lovers was a Jewess.

[Anonymous No.18161264]

>>18161126
Western capitalists also supported fascist movement. And wall street's financial support of fascism is well known.

[Anonymous No.18161265]

>>18161249
>No it wasn't.
Yes it was, don't spout nonsense if you haven't ever opened a history book
>Because illiterates conflate national socialism with fascism.
Sure NS went much further but actual fascism did not like jews either, sorry I have to tell you like this.

[Anonymous No.18161272]

>>18161264
A few western capitalists supported it, most did not. Wall street was the one who financed the destruction of fascism, what are you on about?

[Anonymous No.18161303]

>>18161265
>Yes it was, don't spout nonsense if you haven't ever opened a history book
yes i have opened a history book and while communists achieved bourgeoisie funding (as every radical political movement did) it was neither exclusively nor majority jewish.
>Sure NS went much further but actual fascism did not like jews either, sorry I have to tell you like this
all the fascists in italy thought anti semetism was retarded. The anti jew laws of italy were only passed to appease hitler and mussolini even said he only did it for "political reasons".
Jews in italy were completely assimilated, supported mussolini, and even had their own version of fascism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_Maximalism

[Anonymous No.18161309]

>>18161272
>A few western capitalists supported it, most did not. Wall street was the one who financed the destruction of fascism, what are you on about?
That's exactly how finance capitalism p

[Anonymous No.18161315]

>>18161303
>while communists achieved bourgeoisie funding (as every radical political movement did) it was neither exclusively nor majority jewish.
Yes it was. There is a reason communism is international, that's because the group that overwhelmingly financed is international and did not have a homeland at that time. Sure, others were also involved, but they were the majority.
>Jews in italy were completely assimilated
>even had their own version of fascism.
Are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.18161317]

>>18161272
That's exactly how finance capitalism operates, prop up both sides and pick the winner. Both go into debt and the banks win.
>>18161303
>achieved
Recieved

[Anonymous No.18161326]

>>18160702
I thought you were memeing by slipping in 'Internet' in point 13, but this nigga died in 2016? I thought he died decades ago.

[Anonymous No.18161334]

>>18161317
>both sides of the same shekel

[Anonymous No.18161343]

>>18161315
>Yes it was. There is a reason communism is international, that's because the group that overwhelmingly financed is international and did not have a homeland at that time. Sure, others were also involved, but they were the majority.
communism is international because it ideologically was against what it considered to be "idealist constructs" with the nation being one of them. Bokshevism was arguably a russian nationalism which was clear from lenin's actions.
there is no evidence of the majority of the russian revolutions bankers being jews.
>are you retarded
I think you are. Italy was arguably less anti semetic than even france. I even gave you a link to a jewish fascist party inspired by Mussolini

[Anonymous No.18161351]

>>18161343
>bankers
Backers
Lol my phone autocorrects

[Anonymous No.18161353]

>>18161249
>>Communism was set up by wealthy international jews
>No it wasn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Aschberg
>Olof Aschberg (July 22, 1877 – April 21, 1960) was a Swedish banker of Jewish descent who served as head of the Stockholm bank Nya Banken. From August 18, 1922 on he served as Director-General of Roscombank, which was later transformed into Vnesheconombank. Aschberg was a leftist sympathizer and helped finance the Bolsheviks during the Russian Revolution. In gratitude, the Bolshevik government allowed Aschberg to do business with the Soviet Union during the 1920s.

[Anonymous No.18161369]

>>18161343
>communism is international because it ideologically was against what it considered to be "idealist constructs" with the nation being one of them.
Suits an ethnic group without a nation quite well huh?
> Bokshevism was arguably a russian nationalism which was clear from lenin's actions.
You realize that the majority of the Bolshevist leadership were jews right? And that they did everything they could to destroy everything Russia stood for? How more disingenuous can you be?
>there is no evidence of the majority of the russian revolutions bankers being jews.
It's quite well documented actually, the movements and correspondences of key players are well known.
>I even gave you a link to a jewish fascist party inspired by Mussolini
You absolute retard. You cannot claim jews were assimilated and then in the next breath say they had their own version of fascism. If they were actually assimilated, they wouldn't need a jewish version of fascism. Unbelievable.

[Anonymous No.18161394]

>>18161369
>Suits an ethnic group without a nation quite well huh?
What is the argument
>You realize that the majority of the Bolshevist leadership were jews right? And that they did everything they could to destroy everything Russia stood for? How more disingenuous can you be?
The majority of the bokshevik leadership were not Jews, nor did the bolsheviks destroy everything Russia stood for, the only think Russia stood for was whatever the whims of the tsars were focused on.
>It's quite well documented actually, the movements and correspondences of key players are well known
Where
>You absolute retard. You cannot claim jews were assimilated and then in the next breath say they had their own version of fascism
thd jews that created revisionist maximalism were not italians you retard. 1/3 of italy's jews were members of the national fascist party.

[Anonymous No.18161395]

>>18160804
You could take it a step further and say it is just the state. Any centralised state will have to employ some or all of these features to maintain its power and prevent competition.

[Anonymous No.18161434]

You've come a long way baby.

[Anonymous No.18161459]

It’s way too vague and can be applied too broadly. I remember when I was still in college 5 years ago and thought this described Donald Trump and was terrified.
Nowadays I wish Donald Trump had actually been a fascist

[Anonymous No.18161462]

>>18160702
>8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”

"The enemy" isn't both strong and weak, it's surreptitious and therefore fascists think it's always at the ready to strike if it senses a vulnerability in society.

>9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
They actually consider the struggle for life one of the most fundamental aspects : those who don't struggle, those who don't struggle with all their might, and those who don't want to struggle right now are thought to contribute to creating openings for the "enemies" mentioned in 8. They act so ferociously because in their perception society is always inches away from going under due to being infected by internal and later on external enemies. Life is a struggle from birth to the grave in a bellium omnium contra omnes and those who don't struggle are fated to be wiped out - it is this dire perception of the situation that justifies the dire measures in their view.

>12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
>condemnation
>of chastity
What am I even reading?
Middle aged women who just wanted the fuckery and instability of Weimar Germany to end were also one of the most ardent voter bases of Hitler AFAIK.

>2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
This is probably the only actual point that is true, though people can never agree whether fascism is the end result of too much reason (the Frankfurt school) or too little (Lukács and Eco), or both (too much reason leading people to want irrationalism so as to escape its dehumanizing effects.)

[Anonymous No.18161484]

>>18161434
Who do they think organized the Emancipatory Movements of e.g. the 1960s? Lol.

[Anonymous No.18161501]

>>18160812
That's propably the most retarded conspiracy theory I've ever read

[Anonymous No.18161519]

>>18160702
>4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”

[Anonymous No.18161534]

>>18160890
Lists like this don't work for Fascism, because Fascism isn't a coherent ideology so much as a reaction to the failure of other modern ideologies to provide coherence. The best summary I've seen of Fascism is actually a meme (pic related).
>bamboozles political opponents every time by using their rhetoric to appeal to populists
You appropriate any ideas that can appeal to workers without threatening too many business owners. This brings both numbers and money to your side. The minority of people who object can then be outgrouped and serve as a scapegoat. You thus get to take credit for successes while deflecting blame for failures. Both modern and traditional themes can serve to build an imperial aesthetic, creating a cult of personality and state worship.
This is not ideology, but pure pursuit of power. It is bound to emerge wherever there is a power vacuum, because this is - like it or not - simply how you take power in the context of a modern state.

[Anonymous No.18161544]

>>18160702
This is a sixteen year old wannabe commie strawman level retarded list. Gotta give fascism more credit than this. It's pathetic and dishonest, the list.

[Anonymous No.18161545]

>>18161146
It's the same shit as Poppers paradox of tolerance. Human rights for me not for thee. Umberto cant see past his own farts and even if he did it wouldn't change anything. He'd just be more machiavellian about it.

[Anonymous No.18161549]

>>18161534
maybe u should read a book

[Anonymous No.18161551]

>>18161216
No but you're close. That is revolutions only happen due to elite support and weak government

[Anonymous No.18161557]

>>18161534
>Fascism isn't a coherent ideology
Stop trying to understand fascism through commie lens. You wouldn't want to understand monarchist thought through communism, either, right? Just stop. Read Sorel, read Gentile, read Stanley G. Payne, read Ernst Nolte, read James A. Gregor.

I have no horse in this game but it literally never leads to anywhere useful to regurgitate tired memes like "fascism is capitalism in decay" and pat each other on the back for owning the fascists but never really understanding why they came to be or how they functioned.

[Anonymous No.18161573]

>>18161534
Best answer ITT
Fascism has varied from place to place.
Mussolini was Fascist
Hitler was Fascist
Franco was Fascist
Tojo was Fascist

They hardly had anything in common with each other because their Fascism was born of domestic issues.
Tell me I am wrong if you like, but I think it’s kind of a meta-ideology or a schema instead of a political ideology like Communism

[Anonymous No.18161578]

>>18161573
>Hitler was Fascist
>Franco was Fascist
>Tojo was Fascist
No. Lol.

[Anonymous No.18161583]

Taking Umberto Eco's opinion as the definitive definition of fascism is like taking Milton Friedmans opinion of socialism as the definitive definition of socialism

[Anonymous No.18161586]

>>18160740
Why do midwits jump to racialise wrongthink? My guess is a mix of being perpetually triggered by an inferiority complex combined with being useful idiots who've internalized identity politics.

[Anonymous No.18161589]

>>18161557
Don't you think the national syndicalists deserved better?

[Anonymous No.18161598]

>>18160772
>>18160797
Because Eco was a massive fucking brainlet that's why

[Anonymous No.18161600]

>>18161573
That idea that fascism is a symptom or an evil that awakens due to the situations that a society experiences is one of the most stupid and metaphysical conclusions that there can be.

[Anonymous No.18161611]

>>18161343
Jews were more than 5000% overrerpresented in the communist movement compared to Russia at the time according to the ?1928? (too lazy to look the exact date up) census. Jews were such a minority in Russia that for Jews to be the majority of any political movement with real power would be nigh impossible

[Anonymous No.18161626]

>>18160828
wel heb je ooit...

[Anonymous No.18161627]

>>18160702
Umberto Eco is based.

Great thread OP really putting the torch on the midwitted pseuds and illiterates all larping about here pretending they are smart.

[Anonymous No.18161629]

>>18161600
I don’t think it’s an evil necessarily. There can be evil people involved in it, it’s just an immune response to a foreign intruder

[Anonymous No.18161660]

>>18161611
There were 354 Jews in the Bolshevik Party in 1917 out of a total of twenty-three thousand, about 1.6%. The state was initially ruled by the Council of People's Commissars (Sovnarkom) of which there were eighteen members, of which only Trotsky was Jewish. Or in other words, about 5%

[Anonymous No.18161668]

>>18160984
Eco says it is a syncretised. They fascists mix up the traditionalism with the occultism. You look you see same bullshit ideas from the young people today. It's a syncretism of two oppositions, a dissonance, and a watering down and simplification to appeal to both sides but only the ignorant will be fooled.

[Anonymous No.18161669]

>>18161629
>it’s just an immune response to a foreign intruder
It wasn't like that in italy though, there were no "intruders" in italy. They just didn't want a russian civil war style scenario occurring.

[Anonymous No.18161686]

Should I call my nu political movement fascist or national syndicalist?
I like both but "fascist" sounds like a slur which is actually the reason I prefer it. Also a party calling themselves "fascist" would get quite the publicity, but my policy will be quite progressive.

[Anonymous No.18161693]

>>18161629
You don't need to be a fascist to defend yourself against a foreign threat, if that were the case, fascism has existed since the birth of civilization itself (which is obviously a nonsense).

[Anonymous No.18161696]

>>18161668
>They fascists mix up the traditionalism with the occultism
That's not fascism at all
They mixed up modernism with italian idealism

[Anonymous No.18161703]

>>18161696
You are stupid let me explain, I'm only talking about the traditionalism being syncretised with occultism.

[Anonymous No.18161712]

>>18161660
First, I don't believe your number on the amount of jews in the Bolshevik party.
Secondly, Bolshevism isn't the only kind of Russian communism.

[Anonymous No.18161713]

>>18161703
>I'm only talking about the traditionalism being syncretised with occultism.
Yes and neither of those had anything to do with italian fascism.

[Anonymous No.18161725]

>>18161712
I cannot find the source rn unfortunately so I guess I wont be convincing you today, but the bolsheviks were the most Jewish of the parties.

[Anonymous No.18161738]

Should I call my nu political movement fascist or national syndicalist?
I like both but "fascist" sounds like a pejorative which is actually the reason I prefer it. Also a party calling themselves "fascist" would get quite the media publicity, which is always good, but my policy will be quite progressive.

[Anonymous No.18161745]

>>18161713
Read the OP, numero 1 point mark. You must listen if you want to don't be stupid. Is Eco only make the reference to the Italian Fascism, no he is not. I don't waste my time on you, be quiet and read and ask you questions not make stupid nonsense assumption.

[Anonymous No.18161746]

>>18161586
See >>18160740

[Anonymous No.18161762]

>>18161745
There were arguably only two fascists movements one in Italy and the other in Britain and both were quite progressive especially for the time. A key tenant of italian fascism was breaking away from the past. Maybe you should read a book.

[Anonymous No.18161764]

>>18161738
Calling yourself a fascist is peak bad optics

[Anonymous No.18161771]

>>18160702
Why is the paperboy hat the favored hat among faggy bugmen?

[Anonymous No.18161789]

>>18160702
Most of these points can be used to describe Islam.

[Anonymous No.18161801]

>>18161789
None of those points are attributable to Islam.

[Anonymous No.18161803]

>>18161764
All publicity is good publicity, and most of my policy will revolve around welfare and giving people jobs while instituting a social credit system in the vain of C. H Douglas and also organizing society into corporations/syndicates/unions (take ur pick they all mean the same thing) of experts who elect a representative- cultural, industrial, and technological department heads will all be voted on by those working within each respective field.
certainly much more progressive than liberal capitalism

[Anonymous No.18161806]

>>18161762
Nazis are also fascists, whether you agree or not Eco considers nazis as fascists.

[Anonymous No.18161819]

>>18160702
>2. The rejection of modernism.
>fascism isn't a form of modernism
this shit is so funny

retarded scholars

[Anonymous No.18161825]

>>18161806
ok then he's talking about nazis, not fascists, and the nazis were still not traditionalist, hitler and goebbels were a bunch of vegetarians that wanted to build a welfare state and only a couple of quacks like himmler were into the occult nonsense.

[Anonymous No.18161831]

>>18160702
Lol I thought that was Bob Avakian at first

[Anonymous No.18161841]

>>18161825
Read the OP it's the first point.

[Anonymous No.18161867]

>>18161841
>One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers.
None in Britain or Italy
>The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.
The traditionalists in nazi germany stayed in the konservative revolution and were critics of the nazis

[Anonymous No.18161880]

>>18160702
That's nice, still a fascist though. Please face the wall now.

[Anonymous No.18161893]

>>18161549
>>18161557
Just having intellectuals doesn't make it a coherent ideology. What are the common set of principles they uphold?
>it literally never leads to anywhere useful to regurgitate tired memes like "fascism is capitalism in decay"
I didn't say it was Capitalism in decay, I said it is a way of filling a power vacuum. Vacuums can be left by any ideology, but Fascism is the most ruthlessly efficient way to fill them (assuming you operate within a modern state).
>>18161573
>meta-ideology
That's a good way to put it. Fascist is the blanket term the modern world puts on people who use ideology for personal power rather than serving it. Thus all they have in common are imperial aesthetics and will to power.
>>18161686
If you just want to become powerful, my impartial advice would be to use Fascist strategy without the name. Come up with a completely new name that appeals to 21st century ambitions. Maybe something that conjures images of transhumanism, the singularity and clean energy.
If you want to actually do any good for your country, I would recommend staying out of electoral politics. Politicians respond to incentives set by the entrenched elite (media, big business, academia, etc). Influencing elite culture in a wise way does far more good than taking power.

[Anonymous No.18161902]

>>18161434
I'm so glad this retarded squirrel blocked me on Twitter, I don't miss seeing the perpetual brain mush

[Anonymous No.18161907]

>>18161867
Eco doesn't claim that the Nazis are traditionalists. He says there that they mixed up the traditionalism with the occultism.

Syncretism
NOUN
1. The amalgamation or attempted amalgamation of different religions, cultures, or schools of thought.

[Anonymous No.18161918]

>>18161893
I guess if you want to keep being a retard it's your choice to do so. You do you.

[Anonymous No.18161919]

>>18160702
I read this awhile ago and while it is interesting, it's kind of like horoscope — he starts off with two very typical fascist attributes, but from #3 and on it's a mixed bag.
Fascist numbers: 1, 2, 5, 10, 11, 12, 13
Half the points are generic, with examples:
#3 "let's find another way we are oppresed, oh, manspreading
#4 "what, you think women and men arent the same? Sexist"
#6 "we have to eat the rich, we are being oppressed"
#7 "the patriarchy"
#8 "the silly little men obsessed with cars and football are oppressing us all omg"
#9 "if you dont punch nazis you like them"
#14 this is even more trivial than the above mentioned

Umberto Eco is interesting, but this list he made is borderline dogshit.

[Anonymous No.18161921]

>>18161907
>Eco doesn't claim that the Nazis are traditionalists. He says there that they mixed up the traditionalism with the occultism.
Yes and he's wrong because they didn't.

[Anonymous No.18161945]

>>18160896
Your picrel isn't real, it can't be...

[Anonymous No.18161972]

>>18161893
>If you just want to become powerful, my impartial advice would be to use Fascist strategy without the name. Come up with a completely new name that appeals to 21st century ambitions.
21st century ambitions aren't really at all different from 20th century ambitions though, the opposition is the same now as it was a century ago, liberal democracy.
>transhumanism, the singularity and clean energy.
Literal unironic fascism has more appeal than dark enlightenment memes like this.
People don't even supporr eugenics, they think they will support cyborgs? I don't care about mass appeal anyway.
>If you want to actually do any good for your country, I would recommend staying out of electoral politics. Politicians respond to incentives set by the entrenched elite (media, big business, academia, etc). Influencing elite culture in a wise way does far more good than taking power.
I just want to beat up politicans and feed them castor oil.

[Anonymous No.18161981]

>>18161945
It's tru tho, little girls are kinky.

[Anonymous No.18162077]

>>18161353
ONE FUCKING GUY JESUS CHRIST LMAO

[Anonymous No.18162182]

>>18161921
I don't know if he knows that there were Bosniak Muslim SS.
I've seen pictures of them performing the salah.
They fought against Serbs and Communists.

[Anonymous No.18162193]

Why does it read like a description of christianity?

[Anonymous No.18162200]

>>18162182
I'm saying that the NSDAP were not either traditionalist or occultist in their ideology. They were quite modern for the time, and in many ways absolutely radical which is why they even went around recruiting reds.

[Anonymous No.18163312]

>>18162200
>were not either traditionalist or occultist
Eco agrees, he says syncretistic.

[Anonymous No.18163399]

>>18161746
That's the comment I was replying to retard.

[Anonymous No.18163435]

>>18163312
It wasn't syncretistic

[Anonymous No.18163472]

>>18161972
Literal unironic Fascism died in the 20th century. Eugenics and cyborgs are beside the point. Half the people want UBI, free healthcare and scientific experts to take care of them. The other half want a higher tech version of the 1950's with strong national borders (which would require more surveillance technology to enforce). Most people are concerned about ecology, but a sizable minority are convinced we are going to go extinct unless radical action is taken.
Above all, everyone is pathologically afraid of death, as evidenced by willingness to commit economic suicide over a disease with a mortality rate of <4%. The original Fascists took power in a world where people were used to death, but this has changed. Better healthcare including life extension technologies would be a winning ticket.

[Anonymous No.18163484]

>>18163472
>which would require more surveillance technology to enforce
Why do we need more surveillance? I am not against a secret police or anything but for what purpose?

99% of people are absolutely up to fucking nothing and investing resources into keeping an eye on them is an absolute fucking waste.
>Above all, everyone is pathologically afraid of death, as evidenced by willingness to commit economic suicide over a disease with a mortality rate of <4%.
This should be changed, I don't want a society of pussy faggots. Sure we will implement a large welfare state but the children in the ethical state will be educated and selected to not be a bunch of pansy faggots.

[Anonymous No.18163504]

>>18163472
>The other half want a higher tech version of the 1950's
Make it a higher tech version of the late 1960s and we got a deal.

[Anonymous No.18163762]

>>18161598
(you)

[Anonymous No.18163776]

>>18160716
Excellent tranny bait

[Anonymous No.18163795]

fascism is just awareness of the feminine but for men

[Anonymous No.18163859]

>>18163484
Most illegal immigration isn't people literally walking across a border - walls are purely symbolic. They either enter legally and never leave when their visa runs out, or they arrive as stowaways among imported cargo. Hardening a 21st century border would require investment in surveillance tech to deport illegals. Once you have it in place, it can also be used to identify rioters, crack down on crime and enforce some socially conservative values. These are the kind of things your right wing base wants.
You also have to appeal to your left wing base though. This is where expansion of welfare comes in. Like it or not, your starting base will want maximum death avoidance, so you'll have to invest in universal healthcare and life extension technologies. Later you can implement your Spartan education system, but that comes only once you have solidified your grip on power.
It is precisely this meeting of left and right wing concerns that makes Fascism so powerful. You appeal to the broadest possible base and dismiss critics as "enemies of the people". The alt-right LARPers only adopt the trappings of it (tiki torch rallies, fashy haircuts, Roman salutes, etc), but this is superficial. The actual essence of Fascism is pure power politics, taking on whatever features it requires to gain the support of a given population.
>>18163504
Probably a bit of both, for reasons stated above. You have to appeal to both bases.

[Anonymous No.18164038]

>>18163859
I am from Europe so "illegals" would stick out like a sore thumb here. "Surveillance" or whatever would just be unnecessary.
Crime and rioting is non existent here and I am not much of a social conservative in the sense that being tolerant of homos is not "socially conservative" and as for trans people I would just provide them with counseling. "Conservatives" generally just want to be left alone and are easy to deal with. Anyway religion should slowly wither away and be replaced with the new morality of the state, a "revaluation of values" so to speak.
Obviously welfare should be expanded and people should be cared for, the economy improved and all the general things a normal first world state should do.
As for the so called "spartan education" (not everyone can be a warrior, well I mean unless you practice eugenics I guess) the idea is to just create a people that care about something more than their immediate well being. Everyone should have passions and something they care for more than just themselves whether it be their arts, crafts, or ideas. Everyone should strive to make their life a masterpiece and to do creative work instead of sitting around moping all nihilisticlly. I hardly want to mold everyone into one model that says and acts like a machine off an assembly line, far from it.

I want human beings with passion and soul, which hardly exists today.

[Anonymous No.18164088]

>>18160702
Damn, fascism sounds based.

[Anonymous No.18164294]

>unironic fascists in this thread
You never won and you never will!
Thanks antifa!

[Anonymous No.18164561]

>let me tell you about what facism is

Something about these old anti facists makes me seethe. They must be coomer tier sexual degenerates or have similar demons. I see no other way someone who grew up in the old Europe and saw it morph into what it is today still uses any of his time or energy to prevent "facism" from rising again, rather than fighting against literally any aspects of the Zeitgeist (all which are greater threats to human happiness than facism).

Also fag alert >>18160772

[Anonymous No.18164577]

>>18161317
>Both sides go into debt and the bank wins
Do you retards actually believe this nonsense?
If one side wins, you're never the seeing the money from the other side because they are fucking dead
You're also not seeing money from the winning side because they went broke fighting the civil war
You might see a fraction of the money, or alternatively, the winning regime collapses and the new regime will refuse to pay you on the grounds that they disassociate from the previous one, something which international banking law views as a legitimate answer

[Anonymous No.18164616]

>>18160702
Nerd

[Anonymous No.18164618]

>>18160702
Umberto Eco is an idiot, go back watching Vaush you dumbfuck, with these points I could label the Soviet Union fascist

[Anonymous No.18164705]

>>18161030
Both are plebs wanting to larp as monarchs.

[Anonymous No.18164728]

>>18160772
>Why would Mussolini's Italy have incredible focus on futurist art and architecture if this were true? Why would fascists also put a high emphasis on new technology then, even if this is meant solely for warfare.
My question exactly. The point on which traditionalism and futurism meet is rejection of the present. Their only disagreement is in that the future, for futurists, should be entirely new, while for traditionalist it should be a re-instatement of past values. In terms of ideology, though, these "past values" are entirely compatible with futurism (war, heroism, hierarchy, contempt for weakness, contempt for women, etc.). Both are neo-romantic, irrationalists ideologies at their core, in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.18164731]

>>18164561
>fascism rising again is not an aspect of the zeitgeist

[Anonymous No.18164757]

>fascism of the strong
no! you can't just have a happy and healthy youth, you can't just be free from usury but still have a house and a family! no it's the big banks or the red tanks! no!!!
>fascism of the weak
YES! tell those chuds when they can go shopping, make them take a vaccine! We need a vaccine ID to keep everyone SAFE! YES BASED GOVERNMENT! Yes, a curfew!

[Anonymous No.18164770]

>>18164618
Makes you think huh

[Anonymous No.18164784]

>>18164618
>with these points I could label the [dictatorship name] fascist!

[Anonymous No.18164787]

>>18164784
reply to this one
>>18164757
or is it too painful for you to acknowledge?

[Anonymous No.18164801]

>>18160702
creepy looking faggot

[Anonymous No.18164806]

oh look, another pol thread on lit

[Anonymous No.18164823]

>>18164784
Ironically, Franco, Pinochet and Salazar don't fit the Umbertan criteria for fascism but the USSR does

[Anonymous No.18164843]

His essay on the Protocols is also completely embarassing:

>no-no these are minutes to meeting that couldn't have taken place
>w-rong dates!
>how dare these evil fascists use this to accurately relay what has been happening in the 20th century

I've never ever read anything from an anti-fascist that wasn't just simping for jews

[Anonymous No.18164845]

>>18164823
>Ironically
Now who is being naïve, Lisa.

[Anonymous No.18164918]

>>18164757
No seriously, could I get an answer from one of you anti-fascist people on why you see someone telling you to work out, stand up straight and care about your nation/religion/institutions or even just mild individual responsibility (like JBP) as literally-hitler fascism, but are not talk again the mask mandates, and the vaccine ID and the curfews, lockdowns and whatever else?
The government is literally controlling who lives and dies, prioritising this virus over many cancer patients, people in need of surgery or people just wanting to see their loved ones before they die of a terminal illness etc.
Why are you silent when you are controlled in the name of the weak but cannot stand to orient society towards the strong?
This medical-fascism the world has faced for over a year has fucked not only the economy, job security, small business and social-mobility for years to come, but more importantly has impacted the mental health of millions of people, has taught a generation of young children that their fundamental needs to socialise play and learn can fall to the wayside because of old materialist neoliberal boomers who started selling us out long before all of this.

Seriously, why are you for a fascism that protects grandma but hurts the granddaughter? Why are you punching against the "far-right" on an internet forum, instead of actually doing against the real people in charge?

This is seriously why I turned away from the left many years ago. No one wants to actually challenge the kikes. You don't even dare name them.

[Anonymous No.18164948]

>>18160772
You may have autism

[Anonymous No.18164951]

>>18161803
This is peak cringe. You must be under 18 if you think a social credit system is a good idea.

[Anonymous No.18165143]

>>18160772
>Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
This isn't really true either, nationalism doesn't need to consider race, otherwise the Falange or the Integralists don't count as fascist.

[Anonymous No.18165148]

>ITT seething chuds

[Anonymous No.18165153]

>>18160702
TIL Nietzsche was a fascist

[Anonymous No.18165156]

>>18160888
>Yet they tell themselves they are trads
No they don't. Mussolini rejected traditionalism, embraced futurism and rejected religion and mysticism, Evola (an esoteric traditionalist) got so butthurt he wrote three books about it.

[Anonymous No.18165166]

>>18161126
Before he sucked up to Hitler, Mussolini didn't give a fuck about Jews and he had plenty in his government.

[Anonymous No.18165178]

>>18161369
>Suits an ethnic group without a nation quite well huh?
Only 50% of the Russian Empire was Russian, if the Bolsheviks were truly internationalist they'd have let them go but they didn't.

[Anonymous No.18165194]

>>18160702
such a weird, meandering and pretentious list. i, an eastern european, have been a student of american political life for over 15 years and i can condense his list to just 2
>you're a fascist if you disagree with me
>denying you're a fascist just proves you're a fascist.
umberto eco is a fascist btw.

[Anonymous No.18165197]

>"B..but. Fascism is based and redpilled.!"

[Anonymous No.18165199]

>>18161545
I can never get over the sheer retardation of that Popper argument, or how it basically adds absolutely nothing to the overall argument about freedom of expression. Was he not aware that the same argument can be employed by "the other side" to justify their aims as well?
So: "We can't let Nazis spread their ideas becuase their ideas will lead to repression" has a mirror image in "We can't let jews/liberals/etc speak their ideas freely because those ideas will lead to repression."
Popper is basically advocating a little backdoor or loophole to freedom of expression that can be used any time the status quo is threatened. His logic is the same logic of anyone trying to keep their own ideology and power structure in place and prevent another from gaining traction

[Anonymous No.18165308]

I don't like Umberto Eco's definition and my perspective is more of a Marxist one, but I think the original Italian fascists imagined themselves as an elite, Caesarist group who saw themselves as trying to rescue a moribund and dying nation by instilling energy and vigor into it. They believed in strong leaders and hierarchies and infused that with modernism, hence the influence from futurism and belief in industrial progress and warfare as a revitalizing force. They had a lot of ex-soldiers in their ranks and also had a lot of support from middle-class types, but they weren't traditionalists or backwards-looking, which is why Julius Evola is not really a fascist.

If anything, their problem with the system was not so much the capitalist industrialists but parliamentary liberalism (which also seemed to permit the growth and radicalization of socialist forces on the left). World War I was a radicalizing experience and out pops this populist vanguard that is going to overthrow weak, decadent, moribund liberalism for a sleek, totalizing new society under an imperial chancellorship that gives a lot of emphasis on culture, history, religion, race (depending on the country), etc. etc. etc. Which naturally leads to a nationalistic ideology.

Anyways that's very different from a lot of right-wing movements today, I feel. Like the Proud Boys or EDL? Some of them call themselves "fascists" or wear fascist symbols, but their entire program can be boiled down to "Muslims out."

That Mussolini was an ex-socialist -- and one of the men hanged alongside him was a founding member of the Communist Party of Italy (who went over to the fascists) -- can provide some evidence that fascism spun off from socialism, but when the chips fell, it was clear this was a very different ideology. The role of the leader in socialism and fascism are also very different, as the fascist leader is supposed to be a *superior* person embodying the heroic values of the regime. The socialist (or perhaps more specifically communist) leader is not seen as "above" anyone else, subjectively speaking that is, but an embodiment of the collective will "from below," which is why North Korea is not a fascist regime IMO, and it's why the leader's death is so traumatizing. They're not faking this:

https://youtu.be/J5e3fBv2l8g

Chinese communist aesthetics:

https://youtu.be/0hIMfJs5s8E

It's immanent and finds beauty in the material world, whereas fascism tries to make abstract culture concrete. I'm also not sure there can be an Italian fascism without Mussolini, whereas communist systems have survived the deaths of their leaders.

Now to be as provocative as I can be, the closest thing to Italian fascist aesthetics I've seen lately have been Grimes music videos:

https://youtu.be/M9SGYBHY0qs

I have this sci-fi scenario in my head where the U.S. loses a war with China in a decade, and soldiers and tech liberals who are radicalized by this process look to Elon Musk to become a future-tech Caesar.

[Anonymous No.18165322]

>>18164577
Germany finished paying it's ww1 debt off in 2010 you absolute fucking retard lmao.

[Anonymous No.18165343]

>>18165308
More:

https://youtu.be/gYG_4vJ4qNA

That is more fascist to me than the trad Evola fan boys.

[Anonymous No.18165611]

>>18165343
>That is more fascist to me than the trad Evola fan boys.
Well that's because Evola and tradboys aren't actually fascists and Evola was a pretty vocal critic of fascism.

You're right though that grimes video is pretty fashy- had fascism more embraced it's Nietzschean side. Fascism has a degree of romanticism which can pretty much be tossed out depending on the fashion of the time and the personality of the leader. Mussolini himself was quite the fan of futurism, and futurists considered themselves a bunch of übermensch that will bring the dawn a new cyborg man.

It's actually ridiculously impressive and modern for a century+ old aristic, ye olde cyberpunk in a way.

[Anonymous No.18165965]

>>18160702
So fascists are just gangsters, street thugs, fraternities, and sports teams. Got it.

[Anonymous No.18166071]

>>18165322
Germany was paying reparations you worthless retard

[Anonymous No.18166096]

>>18165322
The USSR had to nationalise every scrap of private property it could find after the civil war, if you had any investment in that country it was gone and they'd tell you to eat shit.
If it was le bankers playing both sides then it kind of backfired.

[Anonymous No.18166154]

>>18164806
It's from here if you're interested in literature
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism

[Anonymous No.18166159]

>>18166071
To whom do you think? Fucking retard.
>>18166096
They literally did not do that, have you heard of the new economic policy?

[Anonymous No.18166173]

>>18163435
This new culture had to be syncretistic. Syncretism is not only, as the dictionary says, “the combination of different forms of belief or practice”; such a combination must tolerate contradictions. Each of the original messages contains a silver of wisdom, and whenever they seem to say different or incompatible things it is only because all are alluding, allegorically, to the same primeval truth.

As a consequence, there can be no advancement of learning. Truth has been already spelled out once and for all, and we can only keep interpreting its obscure message.

One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements. The most influential theoretical source of the theories of the new Italian right, Julius Evola, merged the Holy Grail with The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, alchemy with the Holy Roman and Germanic Empire. The very fact that the Italian right, in order to show its open-mindedness, recently broadened its syllabus to include works by De Maistre, Guenon, and Gramsci, is a blatant proof of syncretism.

- from the text Ur-Fascism

1/3

[Anonymous No.18166180]

>>18166173
Traditionalism implies the rejection of modernism. Both Fascists and Nazis worshiped technology, while traditionalist thinkers usually reject it as a negation of traditional spiritual values. However, even though Nazism was proud of its industrial achievements, its praise of modernism was only the surface of an ideology based upon Blood and Earth (Blut und Boden). The rejection of the modern world was disguised as a rebuttal of the capitalistic way of life, but it mainly concerned the rejection of the Spirit of 1789 (and of 1776, of course). The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.

2/2

[Anonymous No.18166211]

>>18164038
It sounds like you want to help improve your country, rather than purely pursue power. You would be better off with traditional socialism to achieve your stated goals.
Fascism is to ideology what the Sith are to the Force. They don't follow it, they use it.

[Anonymous No.18166224]

>>18166211
I don't pursue power, I already am powerful. Power is not something that can be taken, it can only be given or exerted.

[Anonymous No.18167383]

>>18165611
evola was critical of fascism because it did not go far enough

>>18160702
Entire thread is filled with retardation
Taking Eco's words on fascism as truth shows your retardation.


FASCISM as in the ur fascism, is revolutionary traditionalism.

[Anonymous No.18167412]

>>18167383
>calls eco retsrded for giving incorrect definition of fascism
>proceeds to give incorrect definition of fascism

>evola was critical of fascism because it did not go far enough
That's only if you consider his philosophy correct.

[Anonymous No.18167492]

>>18160702
Fascism sounds way better than whatever this shit is that we have. Let's give it another chance now that there are no major commie powers to declare war on it.

[Anonymous No.18167515]

>>18167383
>FASCISM as in the ur fascism, is revolutionary traditionalism
Eco calls it irrationalism.

[Anonymous No.18167549]

>>18160716
Based

[Anonymous No.18167771]

>>18165343
Post more

[Anonymous No.18167789]

>>18167492
>yeah let's just, you know, start a war and die bc I can't get a gf

[Anonymous No.18167800]

>>18167789
You would be surprised how common this was in history.

[Anonymous No.18167805]

>>18167789
This but unironically
What's the point of peace if I can't get a gf? Might as well take some foreigners to hell with me

[Anonymous No.18167826]

>>18167800
well we are supposed to learn from history I guess.
>>18167805
I'm sure you'd love to die in the freezing cold russian planes like many italian soldiers did when that maniac had sent them there

[Anonymous No.18167833]

[Anonymous No.18167946]

>>18167826
>I'm sure you'd love to die in the freezing cold russian planes like many italian soldiers did when that maniac had sent them there
You're just a pussy lol. Mussolini was in the trenches and he liked it.

[Anonymous No.18167961]

>>18167946
bullshit

[Anonymous No.18167988]

Today's fascists are born out of learning history and politics through Paradox Games and watching sjw videos in their adolescence and never growing up from that.

[Anonymous No.18168007]

>>18167961
He was on the front lines in the trenches for 9 months, severely wounded too. His officers thought he was an exemplary fighter and he wrote about his experience in the war.

Some men definitely do love the war, you just can't imagine that because such a mentality is completely foreign to you.

[Anonymous No.18168020]

>>18168007
if you want to die fighting go join a mercenary group in the third world.
If you want to force me to die so you can jack off to your fantasies then I feel like I have the right to kill you

[Anonymous No.18168064]

>>18168020
What are you arguing you dumb fucking retard, you called someone a maniac for sending people to die in war when they themselves were quite acquainted with war and fighting.
All I said was that it doesn't bother everyone and you eventually get used to it, people have been chopping eachother up since the dawn of time.
Weaklings yapping about war being the worst thing ever and an absolute moral evil is a really recent thing and in any other point in history you would have been seen as a coward.

[Anonymous No.18168072]

>>18167805
>What's the point of peace if I can't get a gf? Might as well take some foreigners to hell with me
This is the stuff that ISIS fighters will say. It's the same people, same phenomenon. It's a social problem that generates the recruitment pool but the difference is that they've had their act together more and have money and support behind them because they're useful as a weapon.

https://youtu.be/ubrvV1yUPnk

[Anonymous No.18168076]

>>18168020
And you're not sent into war to die. You're sent to war to kill. Immediately your thought is your own death which goes to show how defeatist your mentality is.

[Anonymous No.18168100]

>>18168076
>sandnigger children execute prisoners for fun
>western men too afraid to kill a chicken

[Anonymous No.18168109]

>sandnigger children execute prisoners for fun
>meanwhile western men too afraid to kill a chicken

[Anonymous No.18168181]

>>18168076
What I find disturbing about this conversation is how selfish the motivation seems to me. Most people who experience war don't have a choice in the matter. But the logic here is that "I've been denied something so I'm going to merge with the war and get revenge and to hell with whoever I bring along for the ride."

>>18165611
I think ideologies can also go in corkscrewed directions where Italian fascism could've been a left-wing ideology but then went in a direction that placed it on the right. It was more a phenomena that emerged at the same time and was trying to deal with the same problems but from a different basis. This is also why it's not surprising to see Ted Kaczynski's manifesto being more popular with right-wing types today, but if I remember, in the 90s he was seen as more of a left-wing figure and it was common to see his manifesto being traded at anarchist book fairs.

Anyways since we're talking about sacrifice now, it's interesting to see these themes in Chinese propaganda for the People's Liberation Army because they'll say directly that "we use our lives to fulfill our duties." You don't see that in the U.S. military ads, those are in this post-modern mode where the military is a way to explore one's individual journey or even "choose a character" in a video game. But this almost seems Catholic to me. It's a little gory:

https://youtu.be/kZKnOCY32hg

https://youtu.be/7fiManEc2Tk

[Anonymous No.18168214]

>>18168181
>What I find disturbing about this conversation is how selfish the motivation seems to me. Most people who experience war don't have a choice in the matter. But the logic here is that "I've been denied something so I'm going to merge with the war and get revenge and to hell with whoever I bring along for the ride."
What a fool you must be to be unmotivated by your own will.

[Anonymous No.18168291]

>>18168181
The 21st century will be interesting, but wars today are won diplomatically. Military is just for show and bullying the smaller nations.

That American commercial was lol.

[Anonymous No.18168297]

>>18164561
>Also fag alert
Why am I a fag?

[Anonymous No.18168303]

>>18168181
>But this almost seems Catholic to me
Huh?

[Anonymous No.18168324]

>>18168181
That US Army ad made me lol
>’The homeless vet with no legs’

[Anonymous No.18168362]

>>18168181
>What I find disturbing about this conversation is how selfish the motivation seems to me. Most people who experience war don't have a choice in the matter. But the logic here is that "I've been denied something so I'm going to merge with the war and get revenge and to hell with whoever I bring along for the ride."
Kek
>I can't get a gf so I die in wars
Is a joke anon,don't worry
Good posts,the rest of this thread seems filled with /b/ tier politcal discussion and desperate Eco apologists
Are you the PRC geopol dialectical materialism poster in that other thread by any chance?
>>18168214
>What a fool you must be to be unmotivated by your own will.
If you want to kill your enemies(say,the chads,not random people) because you can't get a gf isn't that just uncreatively inverting the values of your masters because you are jealous of them?
This can indeed be somewhat applied to,say,anarchists,who identify with workers,and can't see themselves as masters.
I'd say that if you trully had will,you would not be fighting for the incel cause,rather,you'd be fighting so that you'd either ovecome the incel-chad dichotomy,or become the chad yourself,or something else that's creative..
,

[Anonymous No.18168386]

>>18168362
>If you want to kill your enemies(say,the chads,not random people) because you can't get a gf isn't that just uncreatively inverting the values of your masters because you are jealous of them?
>This can indeed be somewhat applied to,say,anarchists,who identify with workers,and can't see themselves as masters.
>I'd say that if you trully had will,you would not be fighting for the incel cause,rather,you'd be fighting so that you'd either ovecome the incel-chad dichotomy,or become the chad yourself,or something else that's creative..
Idk how to respond, i never said this things. I just said you should exert your will

[Anonymous No.18168407]

>>18168386
It all basically started wit this meme
>>18167789
and the continued with this
>>18167805

I was just a little schizo no worries

[Anonymous No.18168421]

>>18168407
Cont
And I assumed that gf guy was you

[Anonymous No.18168480]

>>18160804
>Fascism is just representative democracy
This. Fascism is what happens when people is democratic and turn to be awful shitheads that collectively agree on being awful people.

[Anonymous No.18168530]

>>18168072
That people think ISIS is based

[Anonymous No.18168537]

>>18168181
Meanwhile the british army...
https://youtu.be/Q1vCe3BAnws

[Anonymous No.18168620]

>>18161573
It's just a framework or doctrine for starting a political movement, thats why it applies so broadly to so many things, trying to pin it down to a single belief set just results in people yelling "that's not real fascism!"

[Anonymous No.18168640]

>>18168620
Why there is no Left Wing Fascism supported by punk rebels?

[Anonymous No.18168870]

>>18160702
I can summarize it less tl;dr thusly:

neo-monarchism with cars and shit, for the riffraff

[Anonymous No.18168883]

Fascism has its roots in marxism

[Anonymous No.18168898]

>>18168640
They were called squadrismo

[Anonymous No.18169038]

>>18168883
Not strictly false but also certainly not true. It has its roots in Marxism insofar as Mussolini clearly agreed with the more "symptomatic" critiques of Marxism: alienation, hyper-individualism, etc. That's basically about where it ends, however.

>>18160772
great exercise in illiteracy

[Anonymous No.18169076]

>>18160716
>Oh wow I didn't know fascists were running the public education system for the last 50 years!
I know this is meant to be sarcasm, but it happens to be true.

[Anonymous No.18169339]

>>18169076
But Xi is based.

[Anonymous No.18169347]

>>18169339
He is at the vanguard of anti-fascism.

[Anonymous No.18169355]

>>18169347
What the heck is Xi?
Lefties love him because he is anti fascist
Western fascists love him because he is a based trad hard men that is the daddy they always wanted.
???

[Anonymous No.18169370]

>>18160771
that one is true for literally every ideology that has an enemy.

[Anonymous No.18169389]

>>18160910
>he thinks antisemitism is a 20th century thing

[Anonymous No.18169401]

>>18160702
>14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”
literally neruoscience

[Anonymous No.18169406]

>>18161018
What does it matter if it is criticism or not? People are criticising it for being retarded.

[Anonymous No.18169407]

>>18160716
read more
>>18160748
shut up

[Anonymous No.18169417]

>>18169407
ugh the neoliberal fascist world system...

[Anonymous No.18169432]

>>18169417
Yes.

[Anonymous No.18169509]

>>18169432
Fascists would share the spoils of war

[Anonymous No.18169538]

>>18160702
This is dumb af. There's nothing about how a government is actually structured, he just listed personality traits. To him, if fascism adopted a different PR strategy, it would cease to be fascism. He's either a schizo or a liberal

[Anonymous No.18169544]

>>18160716
this, but also
>based pepe tradwife chad Onions Jack cope cringe seethe 1488 cunny evilmaxxer sus

[Anonymous No.18169555]

>>18169538
>if fascism adopted a different PR strategy, it would cease to be fascism.
Yes.