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/lit/ - Literature

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18137644 No.18137644[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Is Gender Performative?

>> No.18137649
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18137649

>>18137644
>t.

>> No.18137657

All identity is performative actually, not just gender.
The human self is performative, everything we do, we create a narrative around and that narrative of ourselves is our identity.

>> No.18137676

>>18137644
yeah, when cum busts out of my dick, it's to prove to myself that I'm a man.

>> No.18137682

>>18137676
Having a dick is sex, wearing trousers is gender.

>> No.18137690

>>18137657
This. To be a human being is to roleplay as a human being. We are all just RPing.

>> No.18137710

>>18137657
Cringe

>> No.18137711

>>18137682
I run around in yoga pants so chicks can check out my pipe

>> No.18137719

>>18137644
Gender doesn't exist. Neither does sex. Humans don't exist. Penises don't exist. Atoms don't exist. The universe is performative and time is not even subjective, but so illusory that gender reassignment surgery merely forms a node on a 4D picture of a set of atoms that occasionally might look like other sets of atoms.

T. Cis het heap of atoms that don't understand Butler's writings.

>> No.18137731

>>18137657
How you can prove that we, humans, create narrative around everything we do?

>> No.18137741

>>18137682
Lol. I am surprised people on 4chan are defending Butler. I am a femboy who performs in a feminine way; Does that make me a girl?
? If gender is performative how does the concept of attraction work? If I Men in womans clothes attractive does that really make me straight? If gender is performative doesn't that contradict the idea that gender is internal? I'm not saying Butler is wrong, I just don't think she makes any sense.

>> No.18137748

>>18137741
"I'm a boy!"
>next sentence
"Look at my performance. Am I a girl?"

>> No.18137769

>>18137644
Gender is an artificial concept created by the psychologist John Money in the 1950s.

>> No.18137781

>>18137741
yes. get back in the kitchen.

>> No.18137801

>>18137769
Psychology is an artificial concept created by humanists in the 16th century. John Money wasn't real.

>> No.18137949

>>18137731
Not that anon, but my understanding is due to the agricultural revolution, humanity no longer needed to spend as much time hunting and gathering. However, they didn't know what to do with this new found time and settlement living. From then on people created roles and classes to play.

>> No.18137953

>>18137801
literacy is an artificial concept created by (((priests))) in 3000 BC

>> No.18137976

>>18137953
Anon discovers historicism

>> No.18137985

Who cares?

>> No.18138015
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18138015

>>18137644
Yes, and as a society we should regulate how it is performed based on sex.

>> No.18138047

>>18138015
>we
>based on sex
>regulate
That's why we have suicidal trannies, dumbass

>> No.18138315
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18138315

>>18138047
I meant regulate it as a society so we don't have 'transgender' people at all. All we'd need to do would be to discredit the idea of being 'transgender' at a societal level, just like we've discredited the idea of people being 'witches' or 'shamans'. After all, the only difference between a 'trans person' and a man in a dress is (1.) how society views them and (2.) how they view themselves.

>> No.18138325

>>18137644
>Peformative
cringe bugman word, like "normative"

>> No.18138334

>>18137644
Depends upon if you're using the modified Althusserian theory of the rearticulation of homologous capital or not. Simple as.

>> No.18138383

If I was born a woman but I had the exact same personality and thought process I have now, I would not transition or be trans, because literally who the fuck cares? tomboys have been accepted since forever, and feminine guys are accepted in the form of gay guys. I don't get why everyone needs to transition or be "non binary" which is literally just an attention grab. social media has made everyone narcisistic

>> No.18138423

>>18137644
Is this /lgbt/?
No, it isn’t.

>> No.18138446

I will never listen to anyone who tries to answer this question without genetics and neuroscience.

>> No.18138489

>>18137676
There are many clues, as with all things untroapective, the way we perceived things is basednon the ideas (and narratives) we already hold.

I'm never going to be able to explain it as well as a book or 3 hour video essay. There's a channel called "like stories of old" with a 5 part series called "your life is not a heroes journey" - in it the creator touches on most of the major social theorists and philosophers who promote the theory.

>> No.18138521

>>18138315
The only way you won't have transgender people in society is by delegitimizing gender

Dysphoria is a societal product

>> No.18138538

>>18137657
Based, it's all just a cope from death.

>> No.18138594

>>18138446
genetics says that about 10% of humans don't fall into XY/XX distinctions clearly.

neuroscience says that there are multiple stages of growth and sex differentiation throughout a person's life, and no particular part of the brain houses some information about encoding sexed behaviours. even attraction and arousal may be stimulated in many different ways, so there's a good case to say that gender is fluid, even if it tends to congeal to seemingly two patterns.

on a societal level it's impossible for gender not to be performative--we don't see chromosomes, nor brains, nor is there any reason to do that but to forbid penis/penis interaction and incest.

actually reading Butler helps, even if it only serves to get you more confused. one needs to learn to handle not understanding something on the first read.

>> No.18138631

>>18138594
>genetics says that about 10% of humans don't fall into XY/XX distinctions clearly.

That seems absurdly high.

>> No.18138659

>>18137644
Can men cry? A few months ago a read a debate online. They(presumably young men) were arguing over whether or not men are "allowed" to cry. This elicited the normal meaningless debate of "toxic masculinity", women's expectations of men, emotional vulnerability and your buzzword, performative gender roles. I think it is easy to simply call these men weak to explain away their distaste for their gender roles, but the course exchanges suggest it is more ignorance these men and women have than weakness. They have no idea why "men don't cry" because the reason for men's stoicism has been taken from them so thoroughly they lack the even the imagination of it purpose.

Both Achilles and Odysseus cry in their stories, they were masculine icons to men who may war every year when the crops were done. It is not the act of crying that is weak. It is that men are to not to show weakness because they are meant to be strong for others. But modern man has near nothing to be strong for, nation, tribe, family, religion ect. for so long that the self evident virtues of the past are to him either a meaningless penalty or a cruel reminder of his own societal poverty. It is no wonder they question whether or not the old virtues are just performative and should be cast off.

It is hard to know the value of what has been lost, as I have never truly experienced it the way they did. So I look to the past, and when I see those men preferring death rather than to lose, that which modern man does not even understand let alone have, I wonder what pitiable state modern man is in.

>> No.18138664

>>18137644
> defends pedophilia and incest

Is there a feminist who doesn't support pedophilia?

>> No.18138697

>>18138594
>genetics says
I know genetics personally and ze has never once said anything like this

>> No.18138719
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18138719

>>18137985
exactly

>> No.18138794
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18138794

>Ever since Schopenhauer had the preposterous inspiration of introducing sexuality into metaphysics, and Freud that of supplanting licentiousness by a pseudoscience of our confusions, it is only to be expected that the first-comer should beguile us with the “meaning” of his exploits, his timidities, and his successes. All confidences begin here; here all conversations end. Soon our relations with others will come down to the record of their effective or invented orgasms … It is the fate of our race, devastated by introspection and anemia, to reproduce itself in words, to flaunt its nights and puff their triumphs and tribulations.

>> No.18138827

My problem with queer theory is it essentially defines gender out of existence. According to queer theorists, simply identifying as a gender makes you that gender. I would say gender is part phenominologcal, part social, and part biological.

>> No.18138833

The western world is collapsing

>> No.18138840

>>18138631
That's because it is. It's more like <1%.

Dishonest argument.

There are two genders. Man and woman, nothing else.