/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.1813066]

I've been hearing a lot about 'slutwalks' lately which are in protest of the still held belief that victims of rape and sexual assault are responsible along with some other positive feminist issues.

Now while I agree and understand the above suggestion what I cannot comprehend is the aim to reclaim the word 'slut' as something positive and empowering. Can anyone explain the logic behind this as to me it doesn't make sense?

[Anonymous No.1813079]

Yeah, it really disgusts me too. People trying to glorify being a slut and acting like it is a noble protest. Basically, it is just a excuse to dress up. I say we have our own march going down the same street but only in the opposite direction. When we meet, we rape them.

[Anonymous No.1813082]

>>1813079
I lol'd so hard.

[Anonymous No.1813083]

Isn't it kind of like reclaiming the word "nigger"? Ol' Dirty Bastard has taken great strides for human equality.

[Anonymous No.1813088]

>>1813079
>>1813066
You guys are trollin right?
Because, it's either that or you have no grasp on what irony is.
Im not a feminist, but it really pisses me of when some asshole says that it is womans fault that she got raped, because she was dressed like a slut.
As I said, majority of feminist ideas seem retarded, but I see the point here.

[Anonymous No.1813089]

>>1813083

But I don't think the word 'nigger' has or ever will be fully reclaimed. A large amount of black people find it offense when used by anybody and pretty much all black people find it offensive when someone of a different race uses it.

There's a feminist writer against the slutwalk who happens to be Jewish claiming that she is not going out on a kikewalk. I just don't think the glorification of being a 'slut' is a great thing, I actually think it works against feminism.

[Anonymous No.1813090]

Because the vocal minority [minority?] of feminists are angry moronic fuckwads and the thing we today call feminism is but an ugly mutated husk of a once meaningful movement. The few rational thinkers are struggling to get their message of equality, not female superiority, out there, but they are quickly drowned out by the far louder and more enticing idiots that commence these slutwalks.

Every angry, over-liberal proud vagina owner sets the whole thing back decades every time they open their mouths on their stupid blogs or shit like this slutwalk. No one will ever take feminism seriously again, because they try to apply feminist qualities to everything, and when it doesn't stick, they go on a slutwalk.

[Anonymous No.1813093]

It's a manifestation of what has become known as "fun-feminism," which is feminist in name but (according to radfems) actually reinforces many of the oppressive institutions that women face. Goes along with the whole idea that women making themselves more accessible, sexually, to men is somehow "empowering" to women (because they are controlling their sexuality), even though that idea is a pretty ridiculous example of doublethink if you reflect on it for a moment.

here's the sort of thing i'm trying to say: http://fabmatters.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/the-problem-with-funfeminism/

first few paragraphs discussing the slut walk phenomenon

[Anonymous No.1813094]

STOP REIFYING THE PATRIARCHY ASSHOLE! DO YOU HAVE _ANY_ IDEA HOW INTERTEXTUAL YOU'RE BEING??

[Anonymous No.1813097]

>>1813089
> I just don't think the glorification of being a 'slut' is a great thing, I actually think it works against feminism.

No. It's glorification of womans freedom to dress how the fuck she feels like at the moment.

[Anonymous No.1813101]

>>1813097
But they can do that anyway. Making a big deal out of it is just a form of masturbation.

[Anonymous No.1813105]

I despise female sexuality and want it to be subjugated.
i'm not being ironic

[Anonymous No.1813106]

>>1813088

OP here. I entirely agree with the marches on the ground that rape is no fault of the victim and that such a myth, and other myths regarding sexual assault, should be challenged. However, a large part of the parades seem to be glorification of 'sluttiness' which I feel less amiable towards.

The whole idea of empowering people to be sluts I feel is not liberating women but actually holding them back. All it does is play into sexual stereotypes that women are there for the sexual appeal of men - this side of the march is essentially saying, it's good for women to be sex objects.

[Anonymous No.1813108]

i would drag my dick through a mile of broken glass to hear ellen paige fart through a walkie talkie

[Anonymous No.1813113]

>>1813089

"Nigger" & "slut" were both made as oppressive words for certain people. I'm sure your mother would wash your mouth out with soap if you said "ay slut" to her, whereas that's something girls say to one another in greeting. If a boy greets a girl like that without knowing her very well first, it is offensive.

[Anonymous No.1813114]

>>1813101
>belief that victims of rape and sexual assault are responsible

>"Yeah, she dressed like a slut, she was asking for it"
and so on.
No, she was not asking for it.
She could have been naked and still, it's not her fucking fault that somebody raped her.
I believe that this is the reason for this walk.

[Anonymous No.1813117]

>>1813106
Alright, I see your point. I agree that the message is not clear (as one can see), and it can seem as an another shitty idea of feminists.
I just really hate that one particular myth for some reasn.
Maybe because it reduces men to simplistic animal. I don't know.

[Anonymous No.1813119]

>>1813106


>The whole idea of empowering people to be sluts I feel is not liberating women but actually holding them back. All it does is play into sexual stereotypes that women are there for the sexual appeal of men - this side of the march is essentially saying, it's good for women to be sex objects.

Yep. This is the heart of the disagreement between fun-feminists and radical feminists (as this guy pointed out: >>1813093) and has been a topic of controversy in feminist literature for a few decades now. Dworkin, for instance, has a bunch of work on the so-called "sexual revolution" of the 60s and how the free love idea, although sold as a way for women to empower themselves, was basically just a way for men to get more women with fewer consequences.

[Anonymous No.1813121]

>>1813106
That's is the reason I am against gay parades. Such things do not make gay people more like everyone else, it further broadens the gap between them and the rest of society.

[Anonymous No.1813125]

>>1813114
yes, this is the point of the protest. Can we please bail out of this thread before we end up with another 200-post thread on this subject where people totally misinterpret the ideas behind it the entire time? Seriously, are there different people starting this thread or is it all the same rascally /r9k/ refugee?

[Anonymous No.1813129]

>>1813119

Women can be sluts if they want to,. Some woman just want dirty, nasty sex with strangers & they should be allowed to do it. To say that women acting slutty is only going to make it easier for men to fuck them sounds like you're assuming that women don't reap any benefits from sex.

Women aren't sexually free to be fashionable. Women like sex. Just like men like sex. Because humans like sex.

[Anonymous No.1813135]

If you dress like a slut it's easier to think of you as a sex object which relieves some of the guilt in raping you.

[Anonymous No.1813140]

>>1813129

You obviously have no understanding of radical feminism or the literature that that post is referring to. I'm not going to bother explaining it here (it would take too long), but the issue is far more complicated than you make it out to be.

[Behemoth !!Twl3DmqEY/B No.1813148]

>>1813135
1) That still has the onus of responsibility on the rapist.
2) No, that doesn't make sense, a person willing to rape isn't looking to alleviate guilt, they justify it long before it happens or don't bother to justify it at all. It's why the responsibility still rests on them, either way, the woman's attire is not responsible for anything, it's simply a mechanism/symbol for the rapist.

[Anonymous No.1813151]

>the woman's attire is not responsible for anything, it's simply a mechanism/symbol for the rapist.
>it's simply a mechanism/symbol for the rapist.

That's exactly what i'm saying.

[Anonymous No.1813153]

>>1813140
I disagree, and I'm going to back him up here. I think he made a good point. Women are human beings and deserve to be treated as equals.

Nothing wrong with that.

Unless feminists want to contest that too now.

[Anonymous No.1813156]

>>1813129

I agree a woman can have sex as much as she wants just as a man can. But to glorify being a sexual object, to dress in a way that appeals to men's sexual appetite is surely working against the cause.

I think the issue is that some hope by this protest to make slut a meaningless word which makes sense, others seem to want to glorify it which is backwards to me.

[Behemoth !!Twl3DmqEY/B No.1813161]

>>1813151
My mistake, I inferred that you were saying that the woman presenting herself in that way is complicit, because the rapist feels less guilt.
Sorry, I end up interpreting stuff as misogynist on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.1813169]

>>1813153

>Women are human beings and deserve to be treated as equals.

Of course. No one disagrees. The contention of radical feminism is that in our culture, standard sexual relationships of the sort this guy (>>1813129) was defending harm women in ways that they do not harm men and so women are not being treated as equals in those relationships.

You would understand this if you understood radical feminism. I'm not saying it's true, but you are commenting on a position that you are clearly unfamiliar with and hence misrepresenting it. You can't debate against a position you don't understand without turning it into a strawman, which is exactly what you are doing.

[Anonymous No.1813175]

I think, personally, that the idea is to satirize the entire concept of 'they only have a problem with it because they are sluts and know that they are asking for it'.

My problem with all of this is that I have never once heard someone say that rape victims were "asking for it", and thus the whole thing comes across (to me at least) as a strawman-filled and empty cause for the sake of being able to feel oppressed.

[Anonymous No.1813188]

>>1813169
I understand what you're saying, but I don't necessarily agree with it. Also - men are raped and abused by women, too. It just goes unreported very very often due to humiliation.

I, myself, have been smacked around, physical, and psychologically by females my whole life, molested by them as a child twice, and then raped once as a young adult.

I am not a large man, in fact most women are taller, and stronger built than me, so there was never much fighting back I could do.

So please don't imply that, if that's what you were implying.

[Anonymous No.1813192]

>>1813175
Oh people say it. Maybe you have smart friends Anon.

[Anonymous No.1813200]

The idea that one can reclaim words, especially ones as common as 'slut', is in itself absurd. The 'slutwalks' were (are?) supposed to be reactions to a police officer telling a woman not to dress slutty as to avoid rape. Thereby attributing the hypothetical rape to the would be victim. It was an absurd thing to say, men should learn to control themselves, we're stronger than that.

But the irrational way women reacted certainly didn't help their cause. They came across as confused and emotionally driven. They had little gender theory to back them up and managed to offend the more conservative sectors of society.

They should have confronted the issue in a far more serious manner.

[Anonymous No.1813201]

we could perhaps argue regarding whether a woman dressed as a slut should deliberatedly walk in certain areas of the city, widely known for their unsafe fame. if a rape were to occur it would be the woman's fault. not for the provocative appeareal, but due to her utter stupidity.

[Anonymous No.1813206]

>>1813188

I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune. That really is terrible.

I'm not actually defending any particular point of view here. I'm not sure what you think I'm implying, but I don't mean to be implying it.

I was pointing out that radical feminists have offered critiques of funfem ideas like the SlutWalk for decades and that their critiques have a lot in common with OP's complaints. Then people responded with clear misunderstandings of the radfem position and I was trying to point out that they were misunderstandings.

Radical feminism might well be false, but people who think it is false should at least understand it and address it as a real position rather than a strawman (e.g. claiming that radfems think women are better than men or whatever).

[Anonymous No.1813208]

>>1813175
>Doesn't think this happens

No, dude. Seriously. I know people. This happens. They never say it in the way that "she deserved it" or "she was asking for it" because these things have a big stigma on them in our society now. But they think slight variations in order to think they aren't thinking what they're thinking.

In high school, I had a friend who was raped. Our mutual female friend made remarks in private to me about how she 'sort of brought it upon herself' by acting like a slut and getting drunk at a party.

It totally fucking happens.

[Anonymous No.1813212]

hey neat, posters with male privilege presuming to tell women how they should or should not classify themselves

[Anonymous No.1813214]

>reclaiming "slut"
>reclaiming "nigger"
You can "reclaim" words like "feminist" or "liberal." Not words that were always used disparagingly.

[Anonymous No.1813226]

>>1813212

You seem like an idiot trying to stifle intellectual discussion because you assume that we all benefit from the very loosely defined 'male privilege'

This is when feminism becomes anti-intellectual, take notes people.

[Behemoth !!Twl3DmqEY/B No.1813232]

>>1813175
>I have never once heard someone say that rape victims were "asking for it",

>remember all the times I've seen this argument stated in different terms or couched in a perversion of biological determinism on /lit/
>realize it's not that many, but it was repeated ad nauseum on /r9k/
>/r9k/ is gone
>mfw

Also, and this might throw things waaaayyyy off track here, but this part of the argument about rape culture and why rape jokes actually aren't ok:
Guy #1 is not a rapist.
Guy #2 is a rapist.
Guy #3 is not really a rapist, but he thinks about it. Potential rapist might be too strong a term for him, and it might not be.
Guy #4 is not a rapist.
Guy #5 is not a rapist.
Guy #1 makes a harmless joke about rape. It's funny because it's shocking.
Guy #2 laughs. This is his friend. He makes jokes about rape. It's funny because it's true.
Guy #3 laughs. That was a funny joke. Guys like to look at women. Women shouldn't always look like that, it makes men want them more. Sometimes women aren't rational.
Guy #4 chuckles. Eh, kinda stupid, but fine it's kinda funny, I guess.
Guy #5 fakes laughter. I'm not really ok with this, but we're all friends here, and I know none of us are really like that.
None of this happened purely on a conscious level. It was instantaneous, it was humor.

My point is that you may never have heard someone say those words, but it doesn't mean people have never expressed that opinion around you.

[Anonymous No.1813234]

I think that most of the women really have no class left: they arent't elegant, they act and talk like men and they don't want to look feminine, just in-your-face TITTS and ASS.
A thing called slutwalk and women being proud of dressing like whores is not a thing I will ever speak in favour of, and that policemen was right: they should protect themselves by being delicate and not being loudmouthed bitches - BUT if someone has the urge to rape - it will be done. However, you should still be able to maintain something like dignity in public and in your social group and thereby using something like rape to justify your disguisting personality and appearance is wrong.

[Anonymous No.1813236]

White women are stupid.

If i wear a meat suit, and walk through the lions den, I will expect to get mauled.

Does this say the lion should not be put down?
That is a discussion for another time.

but there is a level of personal responsibility that our culture refuses to accept.

[Anonymous No.1813240]

>>1813236

it's almost like men are human beings rather than lions and should be expected to exert a reasonable degree of self-control!

get castrated tia

[deleted No.1813243]

>>1813114
Your just, not getting the point.

[Anonymous No.1813252]

This debate shouldn't be about women and their attempt to reclaim the word 'slut'.

This debate should be about whether women cause more harm to society than they benefit it. Should we take Firestone's The Dialectic of Sex to it's logical conclusion?

Should we find alternative ways of reproduction to make women superfluous and have a world without sexuality? A world inhabited only by men?

[Behemoth !!Twl3DmqEY/B No.1813257]

>>1813236
You're ignoring the real problem here in favor of your opinion.
It is not common for women to get raped while walking down some dark alley (the lion's den) wearing slutty clothes. That's a cultural myth. If you want to call nightclubs, bars, restaurants, and private homes for social gatherings "the lion's den," you're making a whole lot of assumptions about what women can and can't do and where and how and why-- surely you realize why feminists would have problems with that.
The real problem is that when women try to institute criminal proceedings, it _still_ happens in this day and age that in a court of law (or before it can even get to a court) this discussion is permissible. If you don't believe that that's true, you haven't even bothered to read what these slut walks are about and yet still want to hold an opinion in ignorance.

[Anonymous No.1813262]

Smells like rk9 in here

[Anonymous No.1813263]

>>1813262
Seriously, take it to >>>/soc/

[Anonymous No.1813264]

>>1813201
The best way to prevent rape from occurring is to NOT rape people.

There are convenience stores in the shitty parts of town too, we don't blame the cashiers when they get robbed every other week.

[Anonymous No.1813337]

>>1813252

I agree

[Anonymous No.1813351]

>>1813262
is there some kind of /r9k/-signal they fire off to populate threads like this? It's embarrassing to think that I might have conducted Serious Discussions About Lit'rachure with some of the people in this thread

[Anonymous No.1813368]

I wish there was a way to tell how many women are participating in this discussion.

[Anonymous No.1813374]

The idea is that women should be able to dress however they want and not be blamed for being raped because of how they dress. The word "slut' and "whore" has been used to curb the behavior of women for a very long time, so I think there's a lot to be gained by showing people that it doesn't have to be a negative thing.

[Anonymous No.1813376]

>>1813368

Also, here's an article in favor of the walks. It offers some current event context as well. You may disagree with the source, I don't give a fuck, but discuss the content.
http://socialistworker.org/2011/05/17/a-new-womens-movement

[Anonymous No.1813380]

>>1813212
Considering that this is even being discussed, not to mention the amount of literature devoted to the issue, indicates that some people of a certain gender believe there is a problem that needs to be solved. If the gender doesn't want help in trying to solve this problem, then they should just come out and say this, and not post some snarky, passive-aggressive comment.

[Anonymous No.1813383]

>>1813264

Yes we do, niggers need to learn to run a god damn business. Buy some metal detectors and start buzzing people in.

[Anonymous No.1813407]

>>1813121
>Such things do not make gay people more like everyone else, it further broadens the gap between them and the rest of society.
Gayfag here - it's not OUR fault you straighties are too stuck up to enjoy a good parade.

[Anonymous No.1813420]

>>1813121

That's the problem though, and the example of gay parades addresses it among many others - LBGT culture doesn't need to measure itself against the "status quo".