/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18108447]

Is the quran poorly written or is it just this specific translation? It feels like this translation is really bad but I dont read arabic so not sure how to confirm or deny that

[Anonymous No.18108461]

>>18108447
It may be poorly written but it's supposed to be read in Arabic. Reading the Qur'an in any language other than Arabic is not getting the full text

[Anonymous No.18108504]

>>18108461
That’s what all the Islam apologists seem to say, but I’m not convinced. Many translations retain literary power outside of their original language.

[Anonymous No.18108522]

>>18108447
What don't you like about this translation, I don't speak Arabic so kinda hand tied when it comes to Qur'an. I have felt very comfortable with this translation, I've understood key messages and have been able to discuss verses pretty easily with other Arabic speaking Muslims.

[Anonymous No.18108523]

>>18108504
I mean if you're gonna start out disagreeing with the followers of a religion on how the religion is to be experienced I don't know what you expect to get out of studying it to begin with.

[Anonymous No.18109022]

>>18108447
Its a fairly good translation, though the main appeal of that particular addition that makes it so good for non-Muslims is the notes; since its written in a fairly layman friendly way, whereas many other big English Qurans like "the Glorious Quran" which also has notes, are a lot harder to understand unless you have a Muslim background with a bit of history on the side. But to answer your question: Yes, its very repetitive, there's contradictory passages, very prophet focused. Muslims will tell you its because it has to be read, or rather recited in Arabic, make of that what you will. I will say this as a final note though, despite 3 threads a day for the last few years being Quran/Islam focused, not one person has actually written an in depth analysis of the prose breaking it down for all of us that don't speak the language, never. Even after being asked multiple times.

The Quran is an important book historically and spiritually, its possible in the next few decades it will become the most important book in those regards, but its no bible anon. If you want something that sounds good in both original and translation pick up a good translation of Dante or something. I guarantee you'll get more out of it.

[Anonymous No.18109036]

>>18108447
>poorly written
It is the word of god or superstitious trash

[Anonymous No.18109220]

>>18109022
>not one person has actually written an in depth analysis of the prose breaking it down for all of us that don't speak the language, never
Are you looking for a book like this? Bassam Saeh, The Miraculous Language of the Qur'an

[Anonymous No.18109505]

>>18109220
I am as it goes, thank for for the suggestion. That said, it would be nice if someone on this board for once could go through it in some way, I'm sick and tired of thread after thread about it.

[Anonymous No.18109512]

>>18108447
If we can translate the Psalms from Hebrew into any European language and still have beautiful and meaningful poetry, then we should be able to do the same with the Arabic Quran. We cant. Therefor Muslims are deceiving us.

[Anonymous No.18109520]

>>18108523
Of course you dont, imagine... knowledge as something undogmatic!

[Anonymous No.18109605]

>>18109512
Post something translated from the Qur'an which isn't beautiful and meaningful.

[Anonymous No.18109609]

>>18109512
While I agree with the sentiment, its only really relevant to the Quran because of its "divine" origin label. Any other context you would be partially wrong, Divine comedy is a good case study. You could get a translation that rhymes and therefore has a bit of the fun and art of the original; but severely lacks the accuracy and word choice. And in this case, why would a translator not go for accuracy when translating the Quran, over say, the wordplay; since as a religious book you need to be as accurate as possible.

[Anonymous No.18109616]

>>18108447
>OXFORD WORLD'S CLASSICS
The translation is probably shit.

[Anonymous No.18109622]

>>18108504
You lose a lot even translating Italian poetry into Spanish, can you imagine how much is lost when translating Arabic verse into English?

[Anonymous No.18109641]

>>18108504
It's still the same disorganized ramblings of a desert madman. There are even grammatical mistakes in the Qur'an (even when using the same exact phrases) which absolutely assblast Muslims when you point them out.

You cannot understand the ramblings that make up the Qur'an without context, for which I recommend reading Tafsir Ibn Kathir.

[Anonymous No.18109675]

>>18108504
I’m not Muslim and I hate most Arabs, but the Quran specifically is meant to be read in Arabic only since it’s allegedly the exact words of God. ”Translations” of the Quran are not allowed to be called trnslations, they are called interpretations only.

[Anonymous No.18109704]

>>18109605
Literaly all of it, works like the Psalms or Upanishads are miles above the Quran in beauty.

>>18109609
There is not exception, all translations diminish, sure, but if there was meaning in it of some kind, part of it will translate.

This is true of both the psalms and the divina commedia, both works can keep their beauty when translated, if the quran does not, then there was no beauty to begin with.

[Anonymous No.18109710]

>>18109622
>can you imagine how much is lost when translating Arabic verse into English?
Again, plenty of beautiful renditions of the psalms in my native Dutch... so the same should apply to the quran.

[Anonymous No.18109719]

>>18109675
>>18109675
I mean even apart from Islam, every translator of every language would tell you that a translation is an interpretation. The entire process requires interpretation since languages are not convertible 1:1

[Anonymous No.18109729]

OP.

Go with this one if you can find it. Scholarly annotations actually greatly help.

[Anonymous No.18109734]

>>18109710
I don't doubt the beauty of a translation at all, I'm simply saying that something is lost. Personally, I read the Quran in English, but learning Arabic allowed me to appreciate the peculiarities of the language which obviously cannot be translated to other languages. If you read the psalms in Hebrew you'd notice the same thing

[Anonymous No.18109737]

Nothing like this in the Quran, nothing with this strenght and beauty.
Psalm 46
1
Psalm 46 For the director of music. Of the Sons of Korah. According to alamoth. [1] A song.
1
God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble.
2
Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea,
3
though its waters roar and foam and the mountains quake with their surging. Selah
4
There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, the holy place where the Most High dwells.
5
God is within her, she will not fall; God will help her at break of day.
6
Nations are in uproar, kingdoms fall; he lifts his voice, the earth melts.
7
The LORD Almighty is with us; the God of Jacob is our fortress. Selah
8
Come and see the works of the LORD, the desolations he has brought on the earth.
9
He makes wars cease to the ends of the earth; he breaks the bow and shatters the spear, he burns the shields [2] with fire.
10
"Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth."
11
The LORD Almighty is with us; the God of Jacob is our fortress. Selah

[Anonymous No.18109738]

>>18109704
>Literaly all of it
You can post something then, and show everyone your research.

[Anonymous No.18109742]

>>18109719
Translation is not only interpretation.

It's also interpenetration in the sense that you are penetrating one language with the coarse grammar of another.

[Anonymous No.18109743]

>>18109734
The point is, there is no beauty in the quran, there is in the psalms, therefor the psalms can be translated.

[Anonymous No.18109750]

>>18109738
You are wasting my time. All of it is bad. I am not to pick one turd out of many and show it to you.

[Anonymous No.18109758]

>>18109734
I’m not the anon you’re replying but you’re missing the point. He isn’t saying there’s nothing lost when you translate the Psalms to Dutch, he says every single translation of the Quran sounds and reads like shit, which doesn’t happen with other religious texts.

[Anonymous No.18109760]

>>18109743
>there is no beauty in the quran

Damn, brother. I guess the beauty isn't available in your perspective. Perhaps you are closing yourself off.

[Anonymous No.18109763]

Btw I dare muslims here to quote quranic version that are as powerful as the psalms.

[Anonymous No.18109771]

>>18109758
Ah well then that's a matter of opinion, and from someone whose opinion isn't authoritative at all

[Anonymous No.18109774]

>>18109750
>You are wasting my time
Yes anon.

https://youtu.be/svthOetNi5k

[Anonymous No.18109775]

>>18108447
Read the Quran at www.legacy.quran.com, using Sahih International and Pickthall translations, with some occasional transliteration.


Recitation of Surah Al Qiyamah, 'The Ressurection'
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R1JEthK29MU

[Anonymous No.18109780]

>>18109760
If I can see the beauty in scriptures of different worldviews and not in the quran and you can only see it in the quran, then clearly I can see beauty and you can not.

[Anonymous No.18109783]

>>18109758
>every single translation of the Quran sounds and reads like shit
Which is not true, and he isn't even willing to provide one example.

[Anonymous No.18109789]

>>18109774
Again. Quote quranic version with the same power as the quran. I dare you.

[Anonymous No.18109793]

>>18109771
>Ah well then that's a matter of opinion
Except it’s not. Otherwise, Muslims wouldn’t get assblasted and claim you can only read the Quran in Arabic.

[Anonymous No.18109795]

>>18109774
This is recitation of Surah ar-Rahman.

It's popular at funerals.

[Anonymous No.18109806]

>>18109789
Go away, you're a pest. OP has to back up his claims with evidence.

[Anonymous No.18109810]

>>18109783
I am not wasting my time picking a random verse.

[Anonymous No.18109814]

>>18109763
One of my personal favourites, not for its beauty but for its gnostic meaningfulness, is 57:3. Btw, the entire rhythm and rhyme of this verse is lost in English.

He is the First, and the Last, the Apparent, and the Unapparent, and He is of all things, Knowing.

Apparent and Unapparent are also not inaccurate per se, but they aren't perfect translations either. The words in Arabic are similar to the words exoteric and esoteric, but again, these words do not capture the rhyme scheme or the meter

[Anonymous No.18109819]

>>18109806
What evidence? The whole quran is utter bollocks. The fact that you reject for example the psalms as beautiful literature proves it.

[Anonymous No.18109820]

>praise allah he is soooo great praise allah he is the best praise allah he is great etc etc etc etc for 600 pages

it's literally garbage

[Anonymous No.18109821]

>>18108447
It’s just not a good work. The Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, etc—all very engaging. It comes out even in the translation. I approached the Qur’an with an open mind and found it to be rambling, repetitive and confusing. It hardly seems like a book meant for the rest of time for all humanity. There are lots of poorly regurgitated stories from the Old Testament and half the time it doesn’t make sense without tafsir. Anyone who isn’t a Muslim can agree with all of this

[Anonymous No.18109822]

>>18109793
Well my opinion is that there is much beauty and meaning in it, even in English. Why is his opinion authoritative over mine?

[Anonymous No.18109828]

>>18109775
I’m sorry anon but that’s far from beautiful

[Anonymous No.18109832]

>>18108447
"Atlas of baneful mind, who knows the depths of every sea, and himself holds the tall pillars which keep earth and heaven apart." - The Odyssey

'It is Allah who erected the heavens without pillars that you see; then He established Himself above the Throne and made subject the sun and the moon, each running for a specified term. He arranges each matter; He details the signs that you may, of the meeting with your Lord, be certain' - Quran

[Anonymous No.18109837]

The current Quran is one of many versions that appeared after Muhammad's death. Uthman, the third caliph, was the one to order the standardization of the Quran in what is now used across the world. However, some heavy editing was clearly needed. You have some isolated phonemes here and there that are the remnant of past sentences that got deleted. The consequence is that the Quran is more like a patchwork rather than a coherent text which makes it look poorly written.

[Anonymous No.18109843]

>>18109822
Because everyone but Muslims agree with you. The Arabic reading posted here >>18109775 is far from beautiful by any aesthetic standard.
And you haven’t posted a single translated verse to prove your point.

[Anonymous No.18109846]

>>18109814
That is godawful.

[Anonymous No.18109847]

>>18109828
Have you considered the possibility that you're mistaken? I mean, its not only Muslims that think its beautiful. For example, Swami Vivekananda, a critic of the prophet and of Islam, said that the Qur'an was filled with "beautiful truths"

[Anonymous No.18109848]

>>18109763
Try 3:185.

Every soul will taste death.
You will be paid your Earthly reward in full only on the Final Day.
Whoever is moved away from the Fire (of this world) and has entered the Garden has attained the object of Life and has triumphed.
The world at present is nothing more than an illusory pleasure and the comfort of delusion.

My translation, reading directly from my Quran. I've always found that to be beautiful, friends.

[Anonymous No.18109856]

>>18109846
I mean if you find that to be "godawful" I have no idea how how appreciate the Psalms, the same sentiments are found throughout the Bible

[Anonymous No.18109862]

>>18109848
It is :3

And it is true.

[Anonymous No.18109873]

>>18109814
That’s high school level bad

>>18109847
No, because it’s not good. I’m sorry but the Quran is basic and translations are far from beautiful.
The Arabic readings sound terrible. Muslims alone claim it’s beautiful and I’m starting to believe that comes from confirmation bias.
It is what it is.

[Anonymous No.18109875]

>>18109848
Kek is this your best example of Qur’anic “beauty”?

[Anonymous No.18109879]

>>18109848
Great fire from the heaven will come down; seas, fountains and rivers, all will burn. Fish will scream loudly and in horror losing their natural delights.

[Anonymous No.18109885]

>>18109856
The Bible is leaps and bounds ahead of the Quran. It’s not even close.

[Anonymous No.18109886]

>>18108447
'He sendeth down from the heavens water, so that valleys flow according to their measure, and the flood beareth (on its surface) swelling foam - from that which they smelt in the fire in order to make ornaments and tools riseth a foam like unto it - thus Allah coineth (the similitude of) the true and the false. Then, as for the foam, it passeth away as scum upon the banks, while, as for that which is of use to mankind, it remaineth in the earth.' 13:17

[Anonymous No.18109893]

>>18109856
You post a short piece of gibberish and you expect me to read it into the psalms? What is wrong with you people.

[Anonymous No.18109895]

>>18109848
So basically, "believe everything I say and only when you're dead and can't find me ever again will you get everything I promised I swear it's not a scam"

[Anonymous No.18109896]

>>18109875
Hmm, I certainly wouldn't say best example, just the passage I'm currently on.

If you don't mind me asking, what type of poetry are you into? It seems like you are seeking a poetic quality?

[Anonymous No.18109901]

>>18109886
It is so truly transcendental.

I dare you all to read the Koran, then read Walden by Thoreau, then Nature by Emerson and tell me they don't just flow together.

That everything natural is God is so miraculous it is truly wise. Wind gives you signs. The weather changes based on signs. :3

[Anonymous No.18109904]

>>18109886
>all of these parenthetical additions for a single verse
Yikes

[Anonymous No.18109917]

ITT:

This religious text is better than your religious text. Your religion hasn't convinced me of anything, it looks, smells and sounds awful, thus, it must have no quality if its glorious message has not been received by me.

No one will ever care what any of you 'think' about religion. Do you feel God? Good, you've found the trick in this shitty life.

Do you not feel God? No problem, live however you want, it's 2021, not the Crusades. Go watch porn, eat fries or ice cream and netflix and chill, bruh.

Why do you all always get your panties in such a bunch because someone else believes in something you don't? Tower of Babel, motherfuckers, we ain't all gonna see every side to the Tower.

[Anonymous No.18109918]

>>18109896
Not that anon but I still haven’t read anything here that can be deemed beautiful. For example, in the Bible, the Passion is beautiful, no matter the translation. Similar to Ecclesiastes. I doubt you can find something similar in the Quran.

[Anonymous No.18109929]

>>18109917
Well I was wondering when the angsty teenager would come along and shit up the thread.

[Anonymous No.18109933]

>>18108447
>Is the quran poorly written
Yes. Not even a sliver of divine influence was put into that book. 100% made up buy some random Arab guys.

[Anonymous No.18109934]

>>18109901
Its sick, the whole religion is build around heaving intelligent men claim that a piece of shit is a golden nugget. Its absurd. I mean the Bible gets ridiculous if you are very cultured or not cultured enough. But I honestly cant think of any subset of Western population who would fall for the Quran, except the lowest kind of people.

[Anonymous No.18109946]

>>18109917
All the major religions have beautiful texts, except Islam. Period.

[Anonymous No.18109947]

>>18109934
Your post just seems like an unintelligent attack on the Koran. :3

I am not surprised. Satan's way are multifarious, he has sewed discord throughout the land.

[Anonymous No.18109948]

>>18109929
You literally seem mad, haha.

[Anonymous No.18109951]

>>18109947
Say something positive about a nonislamic work. I dare you.

[Anonymous No.18109960]

>>18109951
see
>>18109901

[Anonymous No.18109961]

I have not read it in Arabic, but I've read it in Persian and tried to read it in English. All the English translations that I've seen so far are almost unreadable. The English translation doesn't provide the same "religious experience" at all.

[Anonymous No.18109970]

>>18109960
>>18109951
Also I am a white American :3

[Anonymous No.18109973]

>>18109961
That's because it's a shit book. There is no "religious experience" either way.

[Anonymous No.18109983]

>>18109960
You didnt praise Walden, you just tied it to the Quran as a trick to get people to convert.

[Anonymous No.18109992]

>>18109918
Fair enough. I have the benefit of being able to read it in Arabic. It's not even a reading, it's like a spiritual humming. I have a theory that what the Quran is to arabs are what the Iliad and Odyssey were to the ancient greeks.

Reading Homer now doesn't necessarily strike the right chord nowadays, perhaps in the same way that the Quran doesn't for the Western mind. So I totally get it. When I read english translations, I cringe, they're just about all so bad. Even my own, I'm afraid.

Language is a tricky thing. The popular version of the Bible, the one considered influential and poetic, is the KJV. The English language, as we know and use it right now, was actually influenced by this very translation. Or there is some intricate relationship with the evolution of the English language and the King Jame's Bible, as that is considered to be a standard reference work of the language.

We are then taking this language which already appreciates and has been affected by a major religious text to try to understand another religious text in a completely different language.

It'd be like trying to read the Bible in arabic and not understanding it's poetic quality. That would make sense because the arab language doesn't lend itself to the intricacies of the stories of the Bible, just as the english language does not lend itself to the intricacies of the Quran and its stories.

[Anonymous No.18109997]

>>18109970
You cant be Muslim and belong to the White class.

[Anonymous No.18110001]

>>18109973
You are what you think.

[Anonymous No.18110011]

>>18109983
Absolutely not. I am a die hard American who loves Transcendentalism.

I also adore Daoism.

Is there a reason you don't like the Quran?
>>18109997
You too, but I'm more of a Quranist. :3

[Anonymous No.18110013]

>>18109973
Please do not talk so boldly of something you know nothing about. This is not child's play. Religion is serious business. You might end up hurting yourself.

[Anonymous No.18110014]

>>18109997
sure you can. you just don't want there to be. It fucks with your worldview.

[Anonymous No.18110019]

>>18109992
Explain why people in the West read the Bible and get religiois experiences but the Quran cant be translated. Also Homer who wasnt a religious author still gets read and enjoyed a lot, so does the pietic edda for example. I get something out of all these works. Not the quran.

[Anonymous No.18110022]

>>18109997
You can and there are more here than anywhere else :3

I'm fasting for Ramadan currently. Many hours of not eating.

[Anonymous No.18110023]

>>18109992
>Reading Homer now doesn't necessarily strike the right chord nowadays
Except that it does. You can translate Homer’s books and still experience something great.
The KJV is far from the best Bible translation and it still is a beautiful book.
Both of your examples help to prove that “no no you need to read the original” is cope.

[Anonymous No.18110025]

>>18110011
Sigh. You dont belief what you are saying. Its all just window dressing. You have to promote the quran as a sick need for inclusion. You are a liar.

[Anonymous No.18110028]

>>18110013
The Quran is a shitty, poorly written book.

[Anonymous No.18110030]

>>18108447
English poetry is unique because there is such a large vocabulary and subtle word connotations: 'hares', 'serpents' vs 'rabbits' and 'snakes'

However ancient works like the Iliad, Hebrew Bible and Quran relied more on idioms and reference stock phrases -- 'rosy-fingered dawn', 'molten copper sky' etc.

Indeed the latter are better at surviving translations, because of this

[Anonymous No.18110031]

>>18110014
You cant have class and follow a religion that abandons class. Islam promotes mixture between the classes. Period.

[Anonymous No.18110034]

>>18110025
Absolutely not. See >>18110022. I am fasting.

The hadiths can be somewhat misinterpreted. The Koran, like the commandments, is the word of God.

Start learning what you are talking about before you blindly hate something.

[Anonymous No.18110041]

>>18110022
You can not be a master and follow a slave religion.

[Anonymous No.18110045]

>>18110028
I fear the suffering you are subjecting yourself to.

[Anonymous No.18110062]

>>18110034
I see. You are muslim, you claims about Walden and daoism are just Tagiyah to trick the goyim.

[Anonymous No.18110066]

>>18109946
Although the Quran itself is nothing special you have Muslim poets that wrote beautiful religiously-inspired works.

[Anonymous No.18110069]

>>18110019
I can only speculate, what do I know.

I think for both Homer and the poetic Edda, the language within which those texts operate, ancient greek and norse, again, somehow lend itself a legitimate translation to English. This, I would think, has to do with the fact that English itself has an intricate relationship with those languages.

>>18110023
>You can translate Homer’s books and still experience something great.

Meh, I'd actually argue it's the story itself that is inspiring to individuals in the West, not the language per se. I think we are referring more to the language here when we we refer to poetic quality.

>The KJV is far from the best Bible translation and it still is a beautiful book.

Agreed.

>Both of your examples help to prove that “no no you need to read the original” is cope.

I'm not saying you "need" to read the original to understand it. I'm not the previous poster you were talking with. I think I am more attempting to make a comment on language itself, of which this entire rhetoric of "The Bible is objectively more poetic than The Quran" is an example of what I'm trying to say which is that language is tricky. Each language has access to different ways of thinking and being and experiencing.

[Anonymous No.18110077]

>>18110062
Not that anon, but I am a Muslim. I wouldn't want in million years for Islam to be associated with daoism and American charlatanry. Islam is leagues higher than that.

[Anonymous No.18110082]

We really should conquer the middle east and introduce a quality humanities education into the region, this will happen after we kick the left from academia.

[Anonymous No.18110087]

>>18110082
Why "should"?

[Anonymous No.18110089]

>>18110069
Hebrew is a sister language to arabic, it translate, stop telling these lies.

[Anonymous No.18110095]

>>18110077
Islam is shit.

[Anonymous No.18110097]

>>18110089
>sister language to arabic

What exactly does that even mean? Or I guess, what do you mean by that?

>it translate
Yes.

>stop telling these lies

erm okay. I misunderstand your point, brother.

[Anonymous No.18110110]

>>18110062
>>18110077
Absolutely not. I am a muslim that does not agree with Shiaism or Shiitism, if you can call me a Muslim.

That's why I refer to myself as a Quranist. After studying very much, I truly believe the Quran to be the word of God, however, for some reason the Arabs have divided themselves into sects and fight over the Quran and the word of God, something the Quran fervently says not to do.

The Quran even says not to wage war because of religion, which the Hadiths have said.

And other things, lead me to believe that God has tried again and again to communicate to us on this Earth, however for some reason Satan intervenes and God allows his message to be corrupted and the wicked's hearts hardened, as the passages retell. (Like Jesus' crucifixion)

[Anonymous No.18110117]

>>18110110
What do you have against the Shia?

[Anonymous No.18110121]

>>18110110
I agree with both more than I agree with Christianity, but then again, I don't face the cultural pressures that a lot of arabs face in the middle east.

The existence of a major criminal organization, the Taliban, controlling much of your society, is a good sign you all are not completely pure, after all.

But you DO have the most recent sign of God in your beliefs. God comes back and makes recurrent larger signs throughout the ages. :3

[Anonymous No.18110125]

>>18110117
I just tend to be a little wary about the Hadiths. I think that I probably side with them more often than the Shiites, but I think me, who believes in a more mystical, contemplative idea of God, would most likely side most often with the Sufis, if anyone.

After all, I enjoy Daoism and Zhuangzi's teachings very much.

[Anonymous No.18110138]

>>18110125
Have you read books and supplications from Shia Imams?

[Anonymous No.18110150]

>>18110110
Shiaism or Shiitism? You mean Sunnism and Shi'ism?

[Anonymous No.18110163]

>>18110150
Yes sorry. I tend to side with the Sunnis as opposed to the Shi'ites.

But again, the Sufis are more of my kind of Muslim.

I am ambivalent to the Kurds.

[Anonymous No.18110190]

>>18110163
If you are neither Shia nor Sunni, nor could even tell them apart, I cannot take you seriously as a Muslim. Imagine being a Kharijite in 2021. Amerimutts seek to ruin everything they touch.

[Anonymous No.18110201]

Who was the greatest muslim in Islamic history?

Like who are the Saint Francis' & Saint Benedicts' and Saint Aquinas' of Islam?

Who are the real, powerful niggas of Islam? Give me names, I wanna look some up

[Anonymous No.18110207]

>>18110201
Al-Ghazzali for example

[Anonymous No.18110215]

>>18110201
Al Ghazzali for example

[Anonymous No.18110216]

>>18110201
Muhammad, Ali, other eleven Shia Imams.

[Anonymous No.18110219]

>>18110190
Don't you think it's suspicious however, that almost everything in life is reduced to this incessant dualistic philosophy? The American political system has democrats and republicans as well, two parties which completely bastardize intellectual thought.

I feel your pain, brother, because we are all that on this Earth.

The truth, the reality of the situation is, you all need something to completely reorder the way this system works. I am someone of particular import who is championing the Koran, among other texts, as being particularly important to a future society :3

It not useless to throw away these wars. Think about me, I am a somewhat conservative American who views the Iraq war as a meaningless proxy war used to justify moneyed interests in oil.

[Anonymous No.18110233]

>>18110219
Imagine comparing Shia-Sunni conflict with American political spectacle for the masses. Please educate yourself in history of Islam before embarassing us all with these takes.

[Anonymous No.18110308]

>>18110219
>suspicious

Elaborate further.

[Anonymous No.18110426]

>>18108447
Imo it's a bad one, it's either Pickthall or Arberry bro

[Anonymous No.18110485]

>>18110201
Al-Ash'ari, Al-Jahiz, Al Kindi, Ibn Khaldun, Ibn Sina, Ibn Rushd, Al Ghazzali, Ibn Arabi, and Muhammad Iqbal

[Anonymous No.18110528]

>>18110485
Ah I forgot Shia philosophers, I don't know that many but Mulla Sadra is pretty good

[Anonymous No.18110535]

>>18110110
I'm like you but I've decided it isn't sectarianism but modernism that has caused this, so I am I one man sect myself. Don't fall into this surface level rejection of hadith, yeah the way we handle them is in need or revitalization, but they are a useful tool.

[Anonymous No.18110573]

It's very succinct in what point it wants to get across. I guess a lot of people are more used to something elaborate.

[Anonymous No.18110603]

>>18110573
No one on here, not even most of the Muslims on here, are willing to interface with the text on a deeper level because they wanna talk about the ebil sand niggers all day. It makes me sick to see any religion interpreted in such a surface level fashion, but at least the Christians can talk about interesting shit regarding their religion. Can't find a place online that isn't cucked out to either the types of people who post here or the types that believe not shaving is a serious theological discussion.

[Anonymous No.18110725]

>>18110603
Whenever you press the Muslims on anything, they respond with “well the trinity sure sounds silly to me.” The Muslims who come here in an attempt to proselytize seem to be more interested in going over rules than dealing with spiritual matters.

[Anonymous No.18110801]

>>18108447
Its content is appallingly boring and inane

[Anonymous No.18110810]

>>18110535
I am glad you and I are brothers :) Inshallah

[Anonymous No.18110868]

>>18110725
Yeah I've noticed that, we're at fault for our piss poor reputation as well but I'm awful at argumentation so I've never really been able to help. That being said, whenever Islam is mentioned you get people posting all the biggest memes and I imagine a lot of Muslims feel as though they can't really do anything but be on the defensive, and it gets tiring so they aren't bringing their A game. This ultimately amounts to "y-you're being rude!" on my part of that's my take.
>>18110810
Yeah akhi, let's hope we don't stay in the minority.

[Anonymous No.18111224]

>>18110868
>That being said, whenever Islam is mentioned you get people posting all the biggest memes and I imagine a lot of Muslims feel as though they can't really do anything but be on the defensive, and it gets tiring so they aren't bringing their A game. This ultimately amounts to "y-you're being rude!" on my part of that's my take.
I seems to me that the Muslims here end up out of their depth when dealing with the most basic theological concepts. Islam has a deep theological tradition, but the ones that post here seem all that knowledgeable of it.

[Anonymous No.18111406]

>>18110868
>Yeah akhi, let's hope we don't stay in the minority.

What the hell do you mean? Is being part of the world's second largest religion by followers considered "minority" status to you?

[Anonymous No.18111415]

>>18111224
I don't know. You see, Islam has some very deep roots in metaphysics, but many Muslims in Arab countries couldn't give a shit about that either.

So it goes both ways.

[Anonymous No.18111482]

>>18108447
Quran is written in such a great way that people can't translate to other languages properly.

[Anonymous No.18111534]

>>18108461
>Reading the Qur'an in any language other than Arabic is not getting the full text
That's like telling Churchians that reading the New Testament in anything but the Greek it was written in is not getting the full message.

[Anonymous No.18111550]

>>18111406
ntg but i listen to Islamic sermons when i'm driving, there's a radio station that does them. Defensive, cringing and derogatory remarks about Christianity are peppered all through it and even in songs. "There is one God, and only One, there is one God, and he has no son"

[Anonymous No.18111551]

>>18111534
Well that's a load of bullshit! You read the New Testament in Latin, Anon.

[Anonymous No.18111558]

>>18111551
uwotm8
>>18111482
ufakinw0tm80

[Anonymous No.18111627]

>>18111224
>I seems to me that the Muslims here end up out of their depth when dealing with the most basic theological concepts. Islam has a deep theological tradition, but the ones that post here seem all that knowledgeable of it.
I can't really say, you might be right though I don't know. That jihadist Op had a reasonably good handle on theology but his approach to Islam was very surface level, and a good handle on surface level theology is almost as bad as no understanding at all.
>>18111406
Did you read the conservation we were having? I don't like the direction the Muslim world is going in, it's either embracing modernism or rejecting it, which is just two ways of allowing yourself to be completely defined by the banal dichotomies and foundations of modernism. The most dangerous for Islam is surface level Muslims.

[Anonymous No.18111773]

>>18108447
quran is man's words not God's words.

[Anonymous No.18111807]

>>18110201
Avicenna? Saladin?

[Anonymous No.18112916]

>>18108447
It's poorly written and lacking. Simply speaking it doesn't have much philosophy or original thoughts.

[Anonymous No.18112956]

That translation is terrible and shilled by the British government. Stick with Arberry's

https://pastebin.com/CKbsaqE0

[Anonymous No.18113069]

>>18108447
This is the one you want. Tries to imitate the musicality of the Arabic original.

[Anonymous No.18113099]

>>18111534
>>18111534
I mean that's unironically true. For example, Hebrew letters have numerical values, and so Biblical names have another dimension of esoteric meaning which you might miss if you read the KJV, as beautiful as it is.

Also, there's a reason that Classics departments have you learn ancient greek and Latin. Have you ever heard of an expert on Homer or Virgil who only read them in English?

[Anonymous No.18113290]

>>18109675
>I’m not Muslim and I hate most Arabs
You and 98% of this site, bud.

[Anonymous No.18113524]

>>18113290
Absolute bs by the way. I don't know what you're trying to push, but this site has a lot of 'white muslims'. Which is necessarily growing, because we want to collectively shit on the fucking ''''veterans''''' who fight in a proxy war for money.

Thank god they killed all those Jewish people and liberals in the towers, that's for sure.

[Anonymous No.18114593]

>>18110125
Shia are really big into Hadiths they just use a different canon. They accept extremely weak Hadiths just because they support clerical doctrine

[Anonymous No.18114604]

ITT seething christniggers

[Anonymous No.18115634]

>>18113524
>white muslims
The only muslims Ive met on this site are Haram westernerized ones who make Catholic school girls look pious.

[Anonymous No.18115658]

>>18111550
>he has no son
This isn't towards Christianity. It must be one of the most repeated phrases in the Quran.

[Anonymous No.18116648]

>>18109641
I laughed at the assblast part. Do you have examples on the gramatical errors?

[Anonymous No.18116971]

>>18116648
What he's saying is like saying there are grammatical mistakes in Shakespeare except even more bizarre. The standardization of Arabic grammar was established based on the Qur'an, it was ordered by Ali the caliph in order to standardize the language so it could be more easily taught to non Arabic speakers being incorporated into the empire

[Anonymous No.18117806]

The Christians in this thread using 'beauty' of prose and language to shit on Islam make me laugh, you literally had thousands of years of fine tuning language from hebrew into English, Dutch, German etc. and making it beautiful and poignant -- there was no such effort in translations from the Koran to english. You guys are very pathetic.

[Anonymous No.18118363]

>>18109917
>Go watch porn, eat fries or ice cream and netflix and chill, bruh.
Awful sentiment

[Anonymous No.18118377]

>>18114604
Why would I give a shit about the race of Christianity