/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18100003]

Why do marxists hate nationalists more than capitalists? Nationalists don't have any power anywhere, whereas capitalists own everything, including the information that leftoids get their indignant hero complex from. Why can't they put the pieces together, stop being pussy faggots, and attack rich people?

[Anonymous No.18100017]

>>18100003
because they are two sides of the same shekel

[Anonymous No.18100025]

>>18100017
wait you mean this?

[Anonymous No.18100028]

>>18100003
>/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18100030]

leftoids like their position. they can larp as subversive or underdog and be compensated. these days even self-named marxists are openly just liberals.

[Anonymous No.18100035]

>>18100003
>Why do marxists hate nationalists more than capitalists?
Thats only USA marxists

[Anonymous No.18100042]

>>18100003
because nowadays the left wing is based more on minorities than on class

[Anonymous No.18100075]

>>18100003
>According to the materialist conception of history, the ultimately determining element in history is the production and reproduction of real life. Other than this neither Marx nor I have ever asserted. Hence if somebody twists this into saying that the economic element is the only determining one, he transforms that proposition into a meaningless, abstract, senseless phrase. The economic situation is the basis, but the various elements of the superstructure — political forms of the class struggle and its results, to wit: constitutions established by the victorious class after a successful battle, etc., juridical forms, and even the reflexes of all these actual struggles in the brains of the participants, political, juristic, philosophical theories, religious views and their further development into systems of dogmas — also exercise their influence upon the course of the historical struggles and in many cases preponderate in determining their form. There is an interaction of all these elements in which, amid all the endless host of accidents (that is, of things and events whose inner interconnection is so remote or so impossible of proof that we can regard it as non-existent, as negligible), the economic movement finally asserts itself as necessary. Otherwise the application of the theory to any period of history would be easier than the solution of a simple equation of the first degree.
from Engels' correspondence. I'm assuming by "nationalist" you mean people who'd more or less align with /pol/ or Trumpism.

[Anonymous No.18100102]

>>18100035
Sadly, the infection has spread to parts of Europe. The more we understand English, the more infected by the Anglo-globalist virus we get.

[Anonymous No.18100150]

>>18100003
nationalism started out as a left wing movement believe it or not. Many states were either small regional nations or alternatively large multi ethnic empires. Nationalism served as a way of uniting people with a shared history, often an imagined one, allowing the formation of states based on that rather than on hereditary monarchy.

However over time nationalism became tied up with tensions over areas with minority populations, and the whole competition between European powers for status and resources, which blew up in their faces a few times, which is why it is not as popular today.

[Anonymous No.18100164]

>>18100025
how many grandiose quotes by absolute nobodies do you have saved

[Anonymous No.18100167]

>>18100150
yea, from what I understand nationalism really hit the limelight with the french revolution as its collective nature was very much a sort of appeal to the well being of the masses of a nation

[Anonymous No.18100170]

>>18100035
This is complete bullshit. Everyone pretends that the Left is more evolved outside of the US but every time they're faced with concrete political questions they prove themselves to be slightly angrier Democrats.

[Anonymous No.18100181]

>>18100075
This quote is so utterly out of place here that it says loads about how poorly you understand Marxism

[Anonymous No.18100182]

>>18100170
>Everyone pretends that the Left is more evolved outside of the US
Because its right, you youtube consumer burgerpig.

[Anonymous No.18100203]

>>18100181
Teaming up with nationalists implies a reduction of social issues to worker vs. capitalist, and if that relationship was eliminated, so would the issue. Engels is directly refuting that kind of fantasy. Marxism without some level of intersectionality is nonsensical.

[Anonymous No.18100204]

>>18100150
Nationalism is still a left wing movement

[Anonymous No.18100213]

>>18100182
No it isn't. I bet you can't name a major left-wing party in South America or Europe that actually deviates from the american liberal consensus on key, contoversial issues. Even the Stalinist remnants that people would point out as le real Left are now run by middle-class liberal gaehs

[Anonymous No.18100252]

>>18100213
>I bet you can't name a major left-wing party in South America or Europe that actually deviates from the american liberal consensus on key
Chilean PCAP and Spanish PML-RC

[Anonymous No.18100259]

>>18100203
Every liberal has one or two quotes by Marx/Engels that they hold dear to as evidence against "economic reductionism" or some other silly notion like that, but as it's always the case your interpretation is misguided and Engels meant nothing of the sort, which you'll figure out if you actually read the letter where he wrote it. You should stop trying to piece together an understanding of Marxism through passages without context that you encounter on the internet and actually sit down to study it systematically. Going through their actual words, logic and strategy on the issues they faced at their time will open your eyes to how socialists actually think, and kick this compulsive necessity of turning every left-wing historical figure into modern progressives by nullifying their actual theoretical principles out of your head for good.

[Anonymous No.18100266]

>>18100252
>ML cults of 10 people with no real social basis
As expected. The left is globally lame and you have to accept it

[Anonymous No.18100272]

>>18100003
Because someone bound to community, whether that be family or nation, cannot be enslaved to another system.

[Anonymous No.18100281]

>>18100266
Yeah, sure. You have no idea what are you talking about. You should start by reading a book and then going outside, you ignorant american pig --if you can; we all know americans can't read.

[Anonymous No.18100284]

>>18100035
basically this

[Anonymous No.18100308]

>>18100281
>Actual spic lecturing Americans on being ignorant and illiterate
There are some that could say this but not you.

[Anonymous No.18100310]

>>18100281
ok

[Anonymous No.18100319]

>>18100003
The Asian Marxists are very nationalistic.