This book was recommended by Jordan Peterson and it has made me more sympathetic to the plights of the working class than any of the often shilled leftie or commie lit. He's also right when he says leftists don't care for the lower class, they just hate the upper class.

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Anonymous Sat Apr 17 16:10:17 2021 No.18049604 [Reply] [Original]

This book was recommended by Jordan Peterson and it has made me more sympathetic to the plights of the working class than any of the often shilled leftie or commie lit. He's also right when he says leftists don't care for the lower class, they just hate the upper class.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 16:13:24 2021 No.18049630 >>18049604 Great! Read Culture of Critique next.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 16:14:39 2021 No.18049639 >>18049630 >>>/pol/

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 16:17:43 2021 No.18049672 >>18049630 I have, also a great read but has nothing to do with the working class or champagne socialists

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 16:20:29 2021 No.18049699 >>18049604 Orwell was a socialist tho

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 16:44:09 2021 No.18049852 >>18049699 He was, but while no modern socialist ever seems to mention this book, Peterson (definitely not a socialist) does. Orwell also was willing to criticize various aspects of socialism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 17:06:26 2021 No.18049990 Is there such an ideology that is distinctly non-marxist in its actions for aiding those at the bottom of the

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 17:08:30 2021 No.18050005 >>18049990 >bottom of the current systems.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 17:21:34 2021 No.18050095

>>18049990
>>18050005
It depends on your definition of aiding
Third position comes to mind but has obviously been influenced by Marxism in that regard
Traditionalism wants the lower class to do well because they're indispensible but isn't as concerned with material condtions

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 17:24:10 2021 No.18050117 >>18049604 Lmao, who gives a shit about the working class.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 17:32:27 2021 No.18050169 >>18049604 v. good book have you read homage to catalonia, anon? my favourite orwell, and like wigan pier contains lots of good material on the unprincipled left where does jbp mention it?

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 17:32:31 2021 No.18050170

>>18049604
Why would I care for a bunch of proles stuck in a shitty dead end job that somehow are the backbone of society and salt of the earth? There's nothing noble or interesting about their everyday struggle and they got harnessed heavily by commies to their propaganda. Romanticizing them and their 'hard work' is fucking retarded.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 17:36:35 2021 No.18050199
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>>18049604
>He's also right when he says leftists don't care for the lower class, they just hate the upper class.

This is absolutely true, it was true in Orwell's day and it's true in our day as well. You see it everywhere. Why are so many modern "leftists" from the middle-class, the upper-middle-class, or the upper-class? If Marxism is supposed to help the working-class, why do there seem to be so few working-class Marxists?

Its because leftism isn't fueled by love for the poor and the lower classes, it's fueled by resentment for those above you. Every single fucking internet leftist, and most leftists offline as well for that matter, does nothing but seethe at those who have more money and status than them, so they embrace Marxism because they think it will give them the opportunity to tear down those higher on the totem pole than they are, purely and entirely out of resentment.

Leftism is fundamentally fueled by cruelty and a massive inferiority complex. Why do you think it's right-wingers, not left-wingers, who so often donate to charity, and volunteer at homeless shelters? Because right-wingers far more often have a genuine care for the economically disadvantaged.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 17:47:03 2021 No.18050253
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>>18050199
It's also worth noting that the lower class in real life is usually made up of racist, xenophobic illiterate bigots. Certainly our beloved "socialists" never met a worker in their life.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 17:47:34 2021 No.18050259 >>18050169 I think in Maps of Meaning lectures

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 17:50:57 2021 No.18050274 >>18050253 >>18050199 I didn’t read either of these posts

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 17:52:06 2021 No.18050280

>>18050199
>Its because leftism isn't fueled by love for the poor and the lower classes, it's fueled by resentment for those above you. Every single fucking internet leftist, and most leftists offline as well for that matter, does nothing but seethe at those who have more money and status than them, so they embrace Marxism because they think it will give them the opportunity to tear down those higher on the totem pole than they are, purely and entirely out of resentment.

This is true, though Ted elaborated on this further. I would also say I think they view Marxism as a commodity for social status, ironically.

I've still yet to see a major outspoken Leftist question immigration as a systematic means of consumer/corporate sublimation. Maybe the fear of being labeled racist prevents them.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:01:41 2021 No.18050333

>>18050169
Nope, not yet but probably will. And in one of his lectures, possibly MoM like >>18050259 said
>>18050199
Correct, it's pure ressentiment
>>18050253
I've raised this point with them in numerous occasions but they believe that they can "re-educate" them the proper way and all will be well. It's delusional.
>>18050280
>I've still yet to see a major outspoken Leftist question immigration as a systematic means of consumer/corporate sublimation. Maybe the fear of being labeled racist prevents them.
That, and the fact that leftism is inherently globalistic so they're ideologically trapped.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:18:31 2021 No.18050418 >>18050117 I do, why don't you? >>18050170 Read the book and find out

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:24:52 2021 No.18050464 >>18049990 yellow socialism distributism syndicalism Christopher Lasch

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:30:36 2021 No.18050503 >>18050464 >Christopher Lasch ??

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:31:31 2021 No.18050510 File: 570 KB, 849x550, 54609845906904565.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18050253 Most proletarians in the world are not white, or western. Whatever you think about socialism, I would at least start with that fact.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:32:58 2021 No.18050522 >>18049604 say what you want about Jordan Peterson but the man is undeniably well read. I've found many excellent books based on his recommendations

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:33:28 2021 No.18050525 >>18050510 It doesn’t matter. Socialists definitely exist in the third world

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:33:56 2021 No.18050528 >>18050510 So white, western proletarians should suffer because they're the minority? How does that work?

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:34:40 2021 No.18050534

>>18050199
>If Marxism is supposed to help the working-class, why do there seem to be so few working-class Marxists?
Most Marxists in the world don't live in the western countries. If you live in a developed western country, that's a lot of the people who you're going to be interacting with.

https://youtu.be/kYR2TPFxrJE

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:35:25 2021 No.18050537 >>18050534 >>18050510 ok?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:36:38 2021 No.18050544 >>18050528 I think you just took a giant flying leap into assuming something I didn't say. But if you believe the motive force of history is the revolutionary struggle of the workers then I don't even have the option of picking and choosing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:37:01 2021 No.18050548 >>18050510 >>18050534 That changes nothing about what he said regarding the western working class

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:38:15 2021 No.18050555 >leftists hate the upper class Lol what? Leftists bend over backwards for the upper class. Democrat party member earning 300k a year before bonuses? Take everything they say as gospel.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:38:35 2021 No.18050557 >>18050544 Explain the issue regarding the white, western proletariate and their relationship to marxism/socialism then

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:38:47 2021 No.18050560

>>18050548
I don't think the western working class is made up of racist, xenophobic, illiterate bigots. That's an insulting and prejudiced thing to say about them. People here saying "I love how illiterate and bigoted the proles are." That's why some of the soldiers he fought alongside in Spain hated his guts and thought he was fighting on the wrong side.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:39:48 2021 No.18050571 >>18050557 What issue?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:39:56 2021 No.18050572 >>18050522 Yes he's far from perfect but you're absolutely right, he at least tries to be broadly read

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:41:22 2021 No.18050576 >>18050522 >well read He hasn't read the greeks. His recommended books list looks no different to a NY times best sellers list.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:42:00 2021 No.18050578

>>18050560
But the majority of the indigenous white working class are "racist, xenophic, illiterate bigots". Not all of course, but the majority absolutely is. There's nothing wrong with that either by the way, just an observation, you'd know if you spent some time among them. They just don't want to be replaced by wage slaves from the third world, which is what socialists are advocating for.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:43:28 2021 No.18050589
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>>18050578
I dunno man. I live in Texas and my neighbor is an OTR truck driver with a Trump sticker on his pickup and he's a really nice guy, I don't think he's bigoted or illiterate. And the working class is very diverse.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:45:05 2021 No.18050601 >>18050589 Lel just walk into a construction site and read the walls of a toilet stall.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:45:35 2021 No.18050604

>>18050589
>"racist, xenophic, illiterate bigots"
I meant (and I assume the other anon who originally quoted it) in the eyes of socialists. Most of them are very nice people, but they don't want to be replaced by third world wage slaves, which socialists advocate for. What do you think of that?
>And the working class is very diverse.
I was talking about the indigenous white working class in Europe (my perspective), which is also what Orwell wrote about since that was before mass immigration.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:47:25 2021 No.18050620

>>18050604
Most construction workers where I live are Mexican guys in any case -- are they not part of the working class? You're either on the side of the working class or you're not.

Orwell also came from wealthy gentry, went to Eton College (a school for the aristocracy), spoke with an Etonian accent and was an imperial policeman. His class prejudices showed in the way he talked about the working class.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:48:38 2021 No.18050628 >>18050604 >third world wage slaves I do advocate for "third world wage slaves." You sound like some Calvin Candie bitch

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:51:21 2021 No.18050645

>>18050620
>Most construction workers where I live are Mexican guys in any case -- are they not part of the working class? You're either on the side of the working class or you're not.
See this is why you're disingenuous, you want to replace the white working class with mexican working class, which proves you don't care about the people Orwell wrote about. How does replacing them help them?
>>18050628
Why not help them in their own countries instead of having them replace the white working class (and helping those too)? By replacing one you're not helping them, unless you mean it the same way the nazis helped the jews by getting rid of them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:57:06 2021 No.18050674 >>18050604 >but they don't want to be replaced by third world wage slaves, which socialists advocate for. What do you think of that? Based

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 18:59:15 2021 No.18050690 >>18049604 is that suppose to be trump

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:01:56 2021 No.18050709

>>18050169
I had Peterson as a prof in university. He only put the first half of his PSY230 lectures online. He covers IQ/g in the second half. While he was discussing it he went on a tangent about affirmative action and blacks having low IQs...how social programmes like that don't work because they aren't able to find jobs for retards.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:06:24 2021 No.18050739

My grandfather worked himself to death in a coal mine to feed his family. My earliest memory is him dying in the hospital from his lungs failing. This was a depressing read for me.

>>18049604
Orwell was a socialist.

>>18049852
I mention this book.

>>18050199
Orwell's critique of the attitudes and motivations of middleclass reformers was cogent, but middleclass people in general tend to be arrogant self-serving hypocrites regardless of their political affiliations. Not all middleclass people are like that, though, and the ones who are discredit themselves rather than their ideals. Working-class socialists were more common in the west until 50 years ago. Neoliberalism since then really did a number on the labor movement and the working class there in general.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:23:17 2021 No.18050837
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>>18050199
>Why are so many modern "leftists" from the middle-class, the upper-middle-class, or the upper-class? If Marxism is supposed to help the working-class, why do there seem to be so few working-class Marxists?
>socialists are all spoiled rich kids!
>it's fueled by resentment for those above you. Every single fucking internet leftist, and most leftists offline as well for that matter, does nothing but seethe at those who have more money and status than them
>socialists are just shitty poor people with shitty lives!
All this recourse to ad hominem and classcucks can't even get their story straight.
>>18050253
>It's also worth noting that the lower class in real life is usually made up of racist, xenophobic illiterate bigots. Certainly our beloved "socialists" never met a worker in their life.
Guys with a $75 000 King Ranch who attend Trump rallies wearing $10 000 in Cabela's gear aren't "working class" by any reasonable measure.
>>18050510
It's interesting that the modern "populist" right has been completely irrelevant to all the modern workers rights battles.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:25:33 2021 No.18050848 >>18049604 I have added it to my reading list. Thanks OP.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:29:44 2021 No.18050876 >>18050837 >be working class >need a truck for work >can't buy one outright have to finance >no longer considered working class

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:30:51 2021 No.18050883 >>18050876 a 75,000 dollar truck isn’t a truck used by the working class retard

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:31:05 2021 No.18050884 >>18049990 social democracy. I think welfare states are doomed to fail personally but the intent is there at least.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:31:52 2021 No.18050892 >>18049990 anarchism

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:32:42 2021 No.18050899 >>18050892 Explain this retardedness.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:33:25 2021 No.18050903 >>18050883 and anyone that can buy a $75,000 vehicle doesn't go out to buy a truck

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:34:15 2021 No.18050907 >>18050884 The reason they fail is because they're mostly there to make middle class people feel good about themselves, not to help lower class people, allowing the elite to cheat the system

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:36:11 2021 No.18050921
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>>18049990
Catholic Integralism, or just heavily Catholic politics in general. The Church has always taught that the poor are beloved by God, and that they are to be treated preferentially and taken special care of. But the Church also has always fucking hated Marxism because Marxism is explicitly atheist and has a fully materialist conception of reality.

I suppose Liberation Theology is a particularly working-class-focused strain of Catholic thought. There are a few of them who took it too far and so big daddy Ratzinger had to bring the hammer down on them back in the 80s, but the ones that remained fully orthodox are good. Saint Oscar Romero is very interesting in particular.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:37:16 2021 No.18050930 >Wigan they deserve to live shitty lives https://youtu.be/N_oIys5KS4A

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:38:17 2021 No.18050940 >>18050907 most of them aren't grifts. socdem countries are generally better than classic liberal democracies also. the point is there's only so much you can do without abolishing private property.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:38:21 2021 No.18050941 >>18050848 No worries, good to hear >>18050739 >I mention this book. You're one of the few then

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:40:38 2021 No.18050957

>>18050940
Yes they are, I live in one and grew up among the working class there. From the outside it looks great, but it's all built on lies.
Also completely abolishing private property will never work in the modern world, unironically a nationalist form of socialism is the best we can hope for.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:43:39 2021 No.18050976 >>18050957 oh. sorry. I thought you were a human being. you get the firing squad

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:45:01 2021 No.18050988 >>18050976 I hope this is bait intending to make leftists look like psychopaths

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 19:57:47 2021 No.18051072

>>18050899
Anarchism is an ideology totally opposed to marxism that purports to care for the working class. In truth, however, it is totally retarded, I was just answering your question.
>>18050903
I live in a town that is both suburb and rural and there are millionaires who live in McMansions that dress in dickeys and drive trucks, very expensive trucks. The same is true around the country. It’s mostly the rich retard republicans that LARP working class from my experience.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 20:11:37 2021 No.18051163 >>18050709 Not sure if I believe this but how did people react?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 20:44:01 2021 No.18051329 >>18049990 Anti-Semitism

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 20:48:33 2021 No.18051345

>>18050199
This is absolutely 1000% true. And to take it further the Democratic Party in the US is more and more becoming the party of the Authoritarian Globohomo Leftwing Elite. The Republican Party is no better but at least they have a large faction breaking off in whatever the alt-right is.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 20:51:09 2021 No.18051361 >>18050601 >walls of a toilet stall Yes this is where the truth is set free, you massive faggot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 20:52:45 2021 No.18051368 >>18050709 Truth is not always very nice

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 20:53:12 2021 No.18051370

>>18050199
>If Marxism is supposed to help the working-class, why do there seem to be so few working-class Marxists?

Because Marxism isn't an identity LARP, it's a theory about the actual objective facts of the economic system.

Marxism says that the working class, the class defined as those who have no other means of subsistence other than selling their labor to a capitalist, have a *self-interest* in abolishing capitalism because they do all the actually productive work, get very little of the reward and someone else gets to live wealthy and secure lives.

This reality can be true completely independently of any single individual worker actually wanting to abolish it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 20:54:12 2021 No.18051376 >>18051361 >Yes this is where the truth is set free It really is though.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 20:55:16 2021 No.18051380

>>18051163
First, I'll say that I like Peterson a lot and the class was great. Second, people didn't really react at all. Peterson actually had a lot of rapport on campus before he became famous and it wasn't easy to get into his section of 230),

To be specific about what happened: he brought up his work trying to find a job for a client with a low IQ and how hard it was to find anything for them to do (even volunteer work). He then mentioned how social programmes are naive because they don't actually help these types of people. He then brought up racial differences in IQ and said that affirmative action programmes don't help people who need it the most (and added that symbolic representation, arguably, won't solve any real problems such communities face...because they have low IQs).

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 20:57:36 2021 No.18051392

>>18051370
but any time capitalism has been "abolished" the standard of living underperformed those of capitalist countries. yeah, the standard of living in cuba and north korea briefly went up after land reforms, but then it just stagnated. so, no, it's absolutely not "objectively" in their class interest to end replace capitalism with an authoritarian command economy. it's like saying if you abolished taxes the working class standard of living will go up. yeah, sure for a couple of years, then everything goes to shit.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 20:58:12 2021 No.18051395

>>18049604
>>18050170
this

i work at a restaurant and i'm freaking out trying to find a way out. this boner that some people have for "hard work" is clearly done by who have soft hands. it's condescending as shit and naive.

the truth is...most of us "proles" are complete fucking assholes who want to move up in the world and leave our peers behind.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:00:04 2021 No.18051403

>>18051380
(The second half of the class was much more technical than the first and we spent more time on hard science aspects of personality psych. He still went off on tangents sometimes and this was one of them. Also, the class as it is on YouTube is kind of bullshit. His exams were based on readings and not lectures (which pissed me off a little because his tangents didn't cover what we were tested on).

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:00:12 2021 No.18051404 >>18051380 Not really surprised by this at all desu, liberals/libertarians always look for a justification for why 80% of the population should be kept dirt poor and IQ is just another great one.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:01:37 2021 No.18051413 >>18049604 Ignore every poster in this thread. Ive read Down and Out in Paris and London, just finished Road to Wigan Pier, soon to be staring reading to catalonia and animal farm or 1984. Orwell is one the greatest humans to ever live.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:01:41 2021 No.18051414

>>18051380
Low IQ people can easily find work. Social programs are responsible for majority of employment in recycling plants, garbage dumps, landscape rejuvenation etc. Countless businesses rely solely on government subsidized retard employees.
A low iq student out of high school actually has a greater chance of finding employment than a student of average intelligence.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:03:59 2021 No.18051420

>>18051392
>so, no, it's absolutely not "objectively" in their class interest to end replace capitalism with an authoritarian command economy.

Well that's not what I said though. The former doesn't necessarily imply the latter even if that is what has happened historically.

It was in a slave's objective self-interest to abolish slavery too, but that doesn't mean everyone knew what would happen afterwards or even if it would be better, they just knew slavery couldn't continue.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:05:29 2021 No.18051426 >>18051420 >comparing a free labor market with slavery awesome fallacy and lazy thinking, no wonder you're a communist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:06:13 2021 No.18051430 >>18049990 Marxism isn't about aiding anyone, it's about restructuring economy and society. If you just want feel-good moralfag nonsense like "aiding", then stick to religion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:10:38 2021 No.18051452 >>18051426 It's not a fallacy, there were literally hundreds of thousands of retards like you who defended slavery as a literally God sanctioned institution and couldn't fathom an alternative, but an alternative clearly existed. Moron.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:13:09 2021 No.18051471
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>>18051404
>>18051414
After taking his class I found (pic). It's kind of dry but those are his major influences. (Nietzsche is as well...I'm sure I don't have to say why he's controversial when it comes to things his ideas, misinterpreted or otherwise (I'm not going to argue), lead toward).

I honestly don't think he's racist or he dog whistles. I think the people he's influenced by lend their ideas to a certain type of political mindset and people pick up on that (right or wrong).

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:15:34 2021 No.18051490 >>18051452 >there was an alternative to slave labor therefore capitalism should be abolished nice logic dude you are quite smart, if only the working class were as smart as you.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:17:42 2021 No.18051503

>>18051490
Like I said anon, which you clearly didn't read, something can be objectively true of an economic system even if individuals don't agree.

There were plenty of "house niggers" that didn't want slavery to be abolished, that still doesn't mean slaves didn't have an self-interest in abolishing it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:18:30 2021 No.18051509 >>18050903 bush-style republican rich guys love LARPing as farmers and factory workers driving around in their spotless $75k pickups in pristine carhart coats

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:20:09 2021 No.18051520 >>18051503 why are you talking about slavery? this is like the lamest intellectual three card monte trick.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:21:28 2021 No.18051529 >>18051471 To me Peterson just seems like a boomer christian liberal party voter, except more educated than the average one.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:22:14 2021 No.18051533 >>18049604 Orwell was a lefty and a trot. Read Homage to Catelonia and quit suckling the teet of that dying pseud

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:23:28 2021 No.18051543

>>18051520
Because slaves did all of the work and reaped none of the reward in the slave economy. They aren't completely analogous to a worker because a worker can, if he wants, choose to starve to death or choose to work for a different employer, whereas a slave would be whipped if he stopped picking the cotton, so in that sense a worker is freer.

But economically speaking, they fulfill the same role in the economy, they make whatever the owners sell for a profit, and get very little in return, and they have zero self-interest in that system continuing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:26:17 2021 No.18051569 >>18049990 There's nothing yet that is not liberal, marxist, anarchist or traditionalist. There's Gaddafi, but he's retarded.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:28:47 2021 No.18051584 >>18051543 >strawman of capitalism try taking some accounting, finance, and economics classes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:30:18 2021 No.18051595 >>18051584 Try answering with an actual argument instead of being a whiny bitch. Fucking 12 year old.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:31:16 2021 No.18051601 >>18051595 trying answering with something that isn't an absurd strawman or fallacy

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:32:22 2021 No.18051611 >>18051601 Calling something a strawman or a fallacy isn't an argument fagtron. Grow up.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:34:44 2021 No.18051626 >>18051529 That's because that's precisely what he is. He is so milquetoast it's actually pathetic and it's actually hilarious that his enemies are painting him as some kind of fascist representative when being a pathetic neolib is actually worse.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:37:41 2021 No.18051646 >>18051626 neolibearlism is basically fascism with a smile.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:41:32 2021 No.18051671 >>18050709 correct

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:42:49 2021 No.18051679 >>18050709 >>18051380 >>18051403 >>18051471 Based and redpilled, as the kids say

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 21:49:58 2021 No.18051716 >>18051646 And also much more effective, totalitarian and powerful.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 22:00:27 2021 No.18051754
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>>18050837
>It's interesting that the modern "populist" right has been completely irrelevant to all the modern workers rights battles.

By design.

The intersection of right-wing populism and worker's rights is a nightmare scenario for any neoliberal government.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 22:20:26 2021 No.18051832

>>18051646
You mean fascism with a sweaty t-shirt and shit-stained underpants. At least the fascists had good aesthetics, every sensory aspect of neoliberalism is ugly. All the art, all the music, all the architecture, all the sculpture, all the poetry, prose, etc. of the neoliberal world is hideous.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 22:22:23 2021 No.18051839

>white libs twitter is the vanguard of the proles

log off and learn some history or watch news that isn't fox and cnn. Socialism has and is continuously being fought for in south and central america by the proletariat. ?

In Peru, a socialist union leader and teacher is on track to become president.

Evo Morales, a farmer, laborer, and union leader was the president of Bolivia (until the temp. military coup) and used a mixed economy which made Bolivia one of the fastest developing economies in the world.

The FARC, being undefeatable by neoliberal infested colombia, leveraged their power to gain permanent representation in Colombia's neoliberal government.

China has become a global economic leader and lifted millions out of poverty and an exploding GDP. Funny how communists can manage capitalism better than so-called capitalist.

Euro and American proles are fucked and useless but outside of that tiny bubble, socialism, marxism, and communism has proven itself superior to capitalist liberalism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 22:23:31 2021 No.18051846 >>18051832 Nazi's looked like leather daddys you would see at a parade in San Francisco.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 22:25:10 2021 No.18051855 >>18050576 just watch the "debate" with Zizek. Zizek exposed him for the psued that he is. He's famous for self-help and misunderstanding a law, not for academic work.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 22:27:25 2021 No.18051868
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The entire reason so many working-class people wind up hating Marxism is because they tend to be religious, and hardcore Marxists often spend an inordinate amount of time trying to wipe religion out. This is literally exactly what happened in Spain and it is directly why Franco arose and why he won. If the Reds hadn't raped nuns and defaced churches they probably would not have been roflstomped as hard as they were, because they would have had greater public support.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 22:42:48 2021 No.18051919 >>18051868 Also, Marxists/leftists want to destroy the family and the family is the backbone of working class life and society as a whole.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 22:54:01 2021 No.18051955
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>>18051679
Thanks. Here's the textbook we used (pic). It's been out of print for decades (he licensed it for the class and condensed it into a course reader). It's actually a great textbook (you can get it online...I got one for like $9 instead of paying the $200+ the U of T Bookstore was charging for the abridged reader). (Aside, I never took Maps of Meaning but my gf did (I read a bit of the book the course is based on because she had it)...he aped the diagrams in that book from this one (they're better in this one though)).

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 22:55:53 2021 No.18051966 >>18051839 You are so fundamental wrong that it's hard to believe you aren't intentionally misrepresenting reality Seek help

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 22:59:39 2021 No.18051984

>>18051839
>Peru
He called for privatizing
>Evo Morales
He also called for privatizing
>FARC
A bunch of failed, Shining Path larpers
>China has become a global economic leader
Privatized, joined the IMF, World Bank, and WTO. Literally funds Israel and occupies Afghanistan
>Euro and American proles are fucked and useless
They're based because they smart enough to uphold property and reject shitty ideas like communism. Communists will never take our freedom.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 23:08:42 2021 No.18052023 >>18051955 Thanks, friend

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 23:17:18 2021 No.18052063 File: 174 KB, 974x1038, 1617435178127.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18050739 >Orwell was a socialist. yes but not all socialist are equal

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 23:18:31 2021 No.18052069
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>>18051754
>The intersection of right-wing populism and worker's rights is a nightmare scenario for any neoliberal government.
It's unworkable since the right-wing "populists" are members of the petite-bourgeosie/labor aristocracy who depend on wage suppression and a preferential regulatory environment.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 23:20:11 2021 No.18052080 >>18051839 >learn some history You're dead wrong, kiddo. Go back to lefty/pol!

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 17 23:20:41 2021 No.18052082 >>18052069 Stirner was right when he said the poor have no reason to blame but themselves. Blaming people for simply being successful at attaining wealth just exposes Marxism as a meme and retarded philosophy.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 23:24:42 2021 No.18052102

>>18051855
he gives me the impression he is a great psychologist/self-help intellectual. But I wish people would stop hanging from his every word, especially when he comments on topics outside his field. The fact that he had a discussion with Zizek about Communism/Capitalism is absolutely ridiculous, but makes sense when the purpose is simply to attract an audience and to make money.

it's like if I were to learn from, and agree with, what Noam Chomsky has to say about topics on biology. that's just a silly approach.

Anonymous Sat Apr 17 23:33:30 2021 No.18052130
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>>18051839
It's basically just a variant of the old "the peasants would be happy with our abuse if the eggheads didn't keep riling them up" shtick that conservatives have been pushing since the French Revolution. Except now it's phrased as "the working class, who only understand beer and football, do not want to hear the chittering voices of Marxist intellectuals on Twitter. They want to be guided by me, a man who's avatar is an anime painting of Charles Martel as a cute girl."

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 00:18:39 2021 No.18052335
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>>18052130
No it's literally because Marx mixes some quite sound historical and economic analysis with a lot of weird Millennarian/New Age/atheist gobbledygook that winds up discrediting the good things in his work. And subsequent Marxists have only added MORE gobbledygook, and behaved in increasingly retarded and destructive ways, like when Stalin starved half the Ukraine and Mao killed every bird in China and caused a famine.

This is why nobody fucking likes Marxists, because the start out talking very sensibly about the plight of the working-class and the evils of capitalism but then they spin themselves off into Looney Tunes land. It's exactly why nobody fucking liked the Jacobins, because they took the legitimate grievances of the poor in France and used them as an excuse to do all sorts of retarded bullshit. And it's exactly why when Napoleon took power he immediately did away with almost all of their stupid ideas, and even allowed himself to be crowned by the Church.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 00:47:02 2021 No.18052488 >>18049604 Orwell was forced to write this for the communist party. He detested the work. He had to eat working class bread

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 00:48:49 2021 No.18052500 >>18052130 it's true though - they only care about whatever they're told to care about

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 01:06:20 2021 No.18052586 >>18051376 I hear what you’re saying but unlike /pol/ you’d have to touch the walls of a public bathroom in order to scrawl your message and most people are not willing to do that

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 01:07:16 2021 No.18052588 >>18052335 i love how Evangelion is found on every board I've been on so far, all of which were from completely different categories. it's almost like Eva is transcendent

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 01:07:31 2021 No.18052589 >>18052500 Same as 95% of college grads

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 01:11:40 2021 No.18052612

>>18052335
And yeah Chris Hedges argues Marx's critique of capitalism is the best ever written (for it's time anyway), but he does not see Communism as the answer in the slightest as it ignores inherent human nature (that Chris was exposed to during his time as a war correspondent).

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 01:51:46 2021 No.18052768 >>18052335 Is "that's not REAL communism" the biggest cope in all of history? I think it is.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 02:03:04 2021 No.18052815

>>18050199
Dostoevsky even noted this in the 1800s with Demons/The Posessed. A lot of the most dedicated leftists are highly unpleasant to even think of being in the same room with, much less interact with. Who with some sense can get inspired by unpleasant people like that when it comes to imagining who gets to shape the foundation of culture or a nation? I think there's a good reason major world religions always hammered on envy as poisonous

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 02:13:44 2021 No.18052863 >>18050199 >Why do you think it's right-wingers, not left-wingers, who so often donate to charity, and volunteer at homeless shelters? it's the opposite in my experience

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 02:15:53 2021 No.18052871

>>18051919
This is totally stupid two accounts. One, when communists speak of "abolishing the family" they're talking about creating public services that allow the raising of children easier, such as public schools and daycare centers, so that children aren't overtly dependent on the parents. The family is "abolished" in the sense that economic necessary of its existence is stamped out. Second, the fetishization of family is absolutely cringeworthy. The word "family" literally comes from the Roman word "Pater familias" - which meant slaves. The asinine assumption the family is something to be inherently cherished is non-sense. The family can among the most abusive institutions to exist - your parents literally indoctrinate you without you ever having consent, and they also have a level of coercion against you - economic and physical. We don't even have to talk the fact that there people being born, every day, in abusive family households that end up having an extremely high impact on their livelihood and potential life path. To defend the family as something "sacred", and to be held on a pedestal is just so stupid.
Really, the problem is the fact that communists are like their rat-fucking opposition, they want to enslave the individual with principles, demands, and duties. They never seem want to leave people be; some dumbass from the 19th century has all jacked up to impose your will unto others without you ever being necessary to "save" them from themselves.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 02:16:45 2021 No.18052877 >>18051403 That’s uni for you

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 02:28:06 2021 No.18052919

>>18051839
I dont get how ccp shills so fervently simp for what is so transparently a government that operates like a mafia family for many more decades than the time Mao had to be in charge. I'm not even going to claim it's inferior or superior to anything to have mafia style leaders in charge, but there's clearly a mislabeling here with the term of communism. Tankies love proles so much and yet they cant bring themselves to give them credit for digging themselves out of poverty. All the credit has to go to their overlords instead, whose smartest move was simply stepping enough out of the way for a while

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 02:34:13 2021 No.18052945 >>18052919 The tankies will vanish from the internet when Xi goes full retard and tries to invade Taiwan, resulting in the US and Japanese navies sinking every ship the PLA has.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 02:37:28 2021 No.18052960 >>18049604 is this the one where he describes living like a bum in the streets of Paris? I know I read most of them and that was the most impressive.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 03:02:24 2021 No.18053065 >>18052919 >implying the US (or almost every nation for that matter) don't have their own kind of oligarchs.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 03:07:39 2021 No.18053084 >>18052945 LOL it's probably best you start reading some nonfiction geopolitical analysis that aren't solely written by the ruling class of US/Japan. Any proper geopolitical analyst can see that it's not as simple as what you're claiming it to be.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 03:09:44 2021 No.18053094

>>18053065
They do. Which still asks the question of why should the ccp be held in any special regard as if they represent 'true communism' in any way when they're a bunch of shrewd and rich oligarchs? Theyre modern chinese emperors who have to play ball with their gaggle of nobles, not diehard marxists

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 03:12:11 2021 No.18053100
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>>18053084
Can you point me to the analysis that doesn't involve the US allying with Japan, and probably also India, Australia, South Korea, and Vietnam, to defend Taiwan and drive the PLA from the South China Sea? China has pissed off almost all of its surrounding neighbors, and you can only kick the smaller kids around so much before they all gang up on you and overwhelm you with sheer numbers. Especially if they have a big kid of their own (America) to come to their help.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 03:12:47 2021 No.18053102 File: 126 KB, 1280x720, building-collapse.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18049699 My argument after someone states 'Orwell was a socialist'

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 03:12:53 2021 No.18053103 >>18053084 Nta and I personally think Taiwan is probably doomed but as it is now I also would never in my life put up with the absolute state of public toilets in mainland china if I had the option to travel through Taiwan instead

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 03:13:53 2021 No.18053107 >>18050169 bro jpb mentions it every 5 seconds. I recall him talking about this book at least 10 times

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 03:20:33 2021 No.18053138 >>18053100 That anon is probably alluding to the fact that china has probability on their side through sheer war of attrition with subterfuge and infiltration. They have enormous numbers, a lot of money, and a lot of time

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 03:23:46 2021 No.18053147 >>18052063 Lol the Finns lost the Winter War

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 04:08:53 2021 No.18053342

>>18052871
> The word "family" literally comes from the Roman word "Pater familias" - which meant slaves.
This is false and retarded (just like most of your post)
>here people being born, every day, in abusive family households that end up having an extremely high impact on their livelihood and potential life path
That's not the fault of family but because of having no moral standards, replace the family for some other system and the same thing would still happen

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 04:10:04 2021 No.18053346 >>18051380 >>18051471 Thanks, that makes sense.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 04:12:46 2021 No.18053357 Forget geopolitics and read Keep the Aspidistra Flying by Orwell anons.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 04:22:46 2021 No.18053392 File: 91 KB, 770x770, 2ce85b6d444f73a10f0c54a65ef95532 (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] How about Road to Wiggan Pierre and it's about some broad who travels to Pierre who's a wiccan and a nig-

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 05:29:47 2021 No.18053590 File: 126 KB, 760x655, KarlMarxOnChristianSocialists.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18052335 >with a lot of weird Millennarian/New Age/atheist gobbledygook lol, actually read the guy instead of making shit up.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 05:34:11 2021 No.18053609 >>18053590 How does that disprove what the anon said? Both marxism and new ageism/atheism are developments out of (protestant) christianity, just twisted.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 05:38:16 2021 No.18053627

>>18053609
Because there's nothing millenarian about the writings of Karl Marx, in fact he spends a lot of time arguing against millenarianism and other kinds of superstition in the German Ideology.

The fact that Marx's followers turned into brain-rotted cultists, isn't an argument against his writings anymore than a liberal supporting a welfare state disproves John Locke.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 05:39:54 2021 No.18053636 >>18053627 He's not infallible, the fact that he argues against it doesn't mean he didn't fall victim to it himself, just look at his retarded interpretation of Hegel

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 05:42:44 2021 No.18053653 >>18053636 >He's not infallible I never said he was, it's not even implied anywhere. But saying Karl Marx replaced religion with New Age gobbledegook is a flat out lie.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 05:44:28 2021 No.18053664 >>18053653 >But saying Karl Marx replaced religion with New Age gobbledegook is a flat out lie. That's not what the anon claimed, read his post again

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 05:46:41 2021 No.18053675
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>>18053627
>there's nothing millenarian about the writings of Karl Marx

L O fucking L

That's literally what Marxism IS. What the fuck is the "worker's paradise"? What the fuck is global socialism? What is it, if not an atheist/materialist version of Heaven? A far off future in which all men have plenty, all men may be free, and no one wants or is in need? What the fuck is that, if not the coming of a paradise? And how is that NOT millenarian? It's almost indistinguishable from any and all daffy Protestant ideas of the coming Age of Christ, only Marx somehow thinks it will happen without God.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 05:51:45 2021 No.18053688

>>18053675
Well, I call it good PR, but it's not like this is what he actually believed. Neither Marx nor Engels ever said that communism would abolish suffering, they said it would abolish capitalist class relations, which is very specific and not superstitious.

John Locke also called a liberal society a utopia on Earth, that doesn't mean he actually believed it so and was probably merely pitching his ideas to plebs and elites alike.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:09:56 2021 No.18053755 >>18053688 What a cop out lmao

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:14:14 2021 No.18053773

>>18053755
It's not a cop out lol, you're the one who is so retarded as to think that judging the writings of Karl Marx on pamphlets he used to try to convince the predominantly Christian workforce in his lifetime is proof that he is some sort of New Age wizard.

This is literally like thinking Obama is a communist because he said "Change we can believe in".

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:16:13 2021 No.18053781 >>18053773 >actually read the guy >no no he didn't actually believe what he wrote Retard

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:19:19 2021 No.18053796

I love Orwell's writing style. He sort of just writes about things as he sees them, describes them plainly, as is honest about how he feels. Like he'll explain how poor people repulse him sometimes to honestly understand class differences. Most writers dont do things like that, they would just fake total sympathy at all times.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:23:24 2021 No.18053810 >>18053781 I'm not saying he didn't believe what he wrote, I'm saying your interpretation of what he wrote is pathetic and in obvious bad faith.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:28:15 2021 No.18053825

>>18052069
>right-wing "populists" are members of the petite-bourgeosie/labor aristocracy

meanwhile left-wing "socialists" are stooges of the neoliberal elite and neutered by idpol

i guess that pretty much leaves the actual working class stranded in the ditch

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:31:49 2021 No.18053835

>>18053810
>Well, I call it good PR, but it's not like this is what he actually believed
Please, fuck off. You're the one arguing in bad faith. You have done nothing to disprove >>18053675 's points. Marx was obviously superstitious to some degree, he wasn't some rational machine but based in (post-)Christian eschatology, and it shows through in his writings. Or Engels', whatever.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:36:38 2021 No.18053848 >>18053835 >Marx was obviously superstitious to some degree I don't agree. The only thing I can agree with is that he couldn't really predict what would happen when capitalism was abolished, so he just made shit up for political effect.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:39:25 2021 No.18053858 File: 987 KB, 500x452, 1445318770495.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >mfw I would survive about 5 hours in the mine >mfw I would be digging through rubble for big pieces of coal with the women and children it hurts

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:40:22 2021 No.18053863

>>18053848
It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Unless he was a supercomputer in a human body, he was superstitious to some degree, just as we all are. Now his particular brand of supersitition, as the other anon pointed out, was similar to new ageism in that it was rooted in post-christian eschatology. You cannot understand where Marx came from without the judeo-christian perspective. Marxism is built on various superstitions, the materialist conception of history being the foremost.
>But it's scientifically proven
No it's not, it's just a clever assumption that cannot be proven.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:42:43 2021 No.18053867

>>18053863
>was similar to new ageism in that it was rooted in post-christian eschatology.

But I don't agree with this Spenglerian reading because Spengler was a retard. Just because you aren't a Christian doesn't make everything you do a fake version of Christianity to cope, this is fallacious reasoning.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:45:06 2021 No.18053876 >>18050199 or perhaps its because the top 1% are fucking up the world and don't have to abide the same rules as everyone else?

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:47:46 2021 No.18053881

>>18053867
1. It's not a Spenglerian reading
2. If you think Spengler was a retard, you were filtered hard. You can disagree with him just like I disagree with Marx, but neither were retards.
3. I'm not a Christian but almost every mass ideology since the fall of christianity has been based in the morality and eschatology of christianity, from capitalism to communism to fascism. Thinking this is not the case just shows you lack historical awareness. You cannot understand Marx without understanding the ideology that preceded him and from which he built off. Even Hegel was based in christian conceptions of things although he obviously opposed them to various degrees. It's inescapable.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:49:06 2021 No.18053884 >>18053876 That has always been the case under any system and doesn't change what that anon said

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:50:56 2021 No.18053891 >>18049852 Orwell wrote his books in critique of stalinism and authoritarian soviet-esque socialism specifically, which he saw as a betrayal of true left wing values.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:51:18 2021 No.18053895 File: 376 KB, 1436x1430, 1617681546466.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18050199

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:51:19 2021 No.18053896

>>18053881
>It's not a Spenglerian reading

Yes it is. It's literally a perfect rendition of the "Bolshevism is the bastard child of Christianity" reading, which once again proves that /lit/ and the /pol/fugees that invade here don't have a single original thought in their head.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 06:56:43 2021 No.18053915

>>18053896
You dimwit, the point is that any modern ideology is a "bastard child of christianity" whether you like it or not, including marxism - just like christianity was a bastard child of judaism, it didn't arise out of thin air. It's inescapable since there are clearly observable links from capitalis,, communism, fascism to the christian weltanschauung. Pointing out the ways in which this goes for marxism was done by many others besides Spengler.
>don't have a single original thought in their head.
And this matters why? Being original doesn't mean being right. Also, neither did Marx, as we've established.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 07:00:24 2021 No.18053933

>>18053915
Which is precisely why I said it's fallacious. It makes zero sense to say "everything" is a bastard child of christianity, this is literally not an argument, I could just as easily say that everything is the bastard child of neolithic animism, it literally has no bearing on anything is just a dumb and smug blanket statement that brainlets use to sound intelligent and you're one of them.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 07:01:05 2021 No.18053937
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>>18053896
But it's absolutely the correct reading. And, moreover, it puts Marx in the exact historical and literary context in which he belongs. It puts him in the same context as Nietzsche, and Kierkegaard, and in fiction people like the Bronte sisters in England. They were all different, of course, in many ways, but not as much as you might think.

All of these people, what pulls them together? It's that they are post-Enlightenment, post-French-Revolution, post-Napoleon. Their faith in Christendom has already been shaken by Enlightenment writers and thinkers like Voltaire, and by the overwhelming post-Christian intellectual project of Hegel. They are all aware, even if some of them instinctively, that the Christian project has run out of steam and must be replaced. So what replaces it? What fuels the world in the future, if Faith in Jesus Christ must be abandoned and seen as ridiculous at best, harmful at worst?

Every major Romantic thinker and writer grappled with this issue, INCLUDING Marx. Indeed, someone once said that the collapse of the Soviet Union was in some ways a tragedy, even if you weren't a Marxist, because it represented the final, last defeat of Romanticism, and all its passionate dreams of a post-Christian "better world."

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 07:04:52 2021 No.18053955

>>18053933
No, it proves that no one is infallible including Marx, no one is purely rational including Marx, and no one is immune to superstition, including Marx.
There is of course a difference in the degrees to which and the manners in which those ideologies have adopted aspects of christianity, and the ways in which Marx did have been firmly established. You not liking that fact doesn't change it one bit. You want your prophet to have created his ideas out of a vacuum - he didn't, he was influenced by the ideas that preceded him, both directly and indirectly. The result is that Marx's ideas overlap to some extent with the other post-christian ideologies, which was the entire fucking point. Now kindly fuck off.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 07:17:11 2021 No.18054006

>>18053937
But this reading completely ignores the fact that unlike Nietzsche, Kierkegaard and the Bronte sisters in England, Marx's project was materialistic and not romantic.

The fact that bourgeois millennarians latched themselves onto communism or socialism as some kind of godless alternative to Christianity is less of Marx's fault and more of a problem of the bourgeoisie's never-ending narcissistic inability to cope with existence.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 07:32:01 2021 No.18054063 >>18054006 Materialism is no less a superstition than romanticism, you seem to miss the point entirely. Marx's historical materialism cannot be properly explained without taking christian eschatology into account.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 08:56:28 2021 No.18054486

>>18050199
I agree entirely, just look at the so called socialists/marxists/communists (and other left wing larpers) that make it into the maintstream parties that are the Democratic Party and the Labour Party (US and UK respectively).

Then look at all the internet Larpers, they see life based around some sort of hierarchy based on victimhood (this is especially funny in the UK with the Irish and Scottish). But mostly importantly of all, they are very subversive and actually care little at all about the working class.
If they do care about the 'working class' it is about a foreign working class that they will import during their time in governance.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 08:57:56 2021 No.18054495 >>18050739 Almost all Brits will relate to this in one way or another. I did, but I couldn't be arsed to read the second half of the book, I've heard it all before.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:00:01 2021 No.18054506 >>18053891 I wish someone wrote about how wokeism is a betrayal of true left wing values

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:02:02 2021 No.18054518

>>18051072
>>18051509
Most of them either grew up 'working class' or started out as a blue collar worker. I'd associate with them any day when compared with the neurotic tech workers of the cities who do nothing but self-flagellate and have low testosterone.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:03:26 2021 No.18054526 >>18050976 Ahahahahahahahah, this is the pinnacle of American communist LARPING ahahahahahahahaha

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:03:46 2021 No.18054528

>>18050884
The intent is there in every system of redistribution, forced or voluntary. SD's do not at all appear sustainable, every one now is kept alive by little more than the collective agreement of the West that they are not in any trouble.

They appear reliant on inportation of voluntary labor to lower wages which further destabalizes a nation.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:06:01 2021 No.18054537

>>18051839
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peF-ae2AINU

This is what American lefties believe in, fundamentally. Self-flagellation.
Hence their absolute screeching when even other lefties (socialists or communists) mention the idea of leadership that promotes pride over self-hatred.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:16:06 2021 No.18054575 >>18052871 This is why normies don't like communists or marxists, because you are all retarded and extremely neurotic.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:18:22 2021 No.18054589 >>18054506 Wokeism appeals to the marxist/commie idiots, but before that the whole 'anti-racism in every aspect of life' was pushed by (neo) liberal types. They pushed it until it approached wokeism

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:26:47 2021 No.18054628 >>18054575 Some retards out there are capable of some warmth and kindness in their hearts, though. I'd put them a tier lower

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:30:03 2021 No.18054650 it's funny that the socialists of the day hated the book because it contained a very valid criticism of socialism. Orwell seemed very intelligent, the way he could see both sides of many issues

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:33:22 2021 No.18054663

>>18052130
I don't know where you are from, but if there were no political/narrative design (and suppression) through education in the last 20 years, most people here would still be strongly anti-immigration and all this strange 'wokeism' would not exist.
It is the elite in any society who control the narrative and steer any nation toward their desired direction, with help from the brainless left-wing academics of course.
The only thing the left have been good at in the late 20th and early 21st century has been 'deconstructing' things the working class and most other people like, and working as radical shock troops for further political change. Hence why all the corporations pretending to be gay now have massive support.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:35:07 2021 No.18054673 did orwell have a gf... i have no gf for many years

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:36:11 2021 No.18054679

>>18052130
No one likes commies or marxists anymore, and the reason the system fails and the party breaks down is because it works against fundamental human nature. His criticisms of capitalism may be correct, in a way, but the rest of it has been shown to be completely neurotic. Hence why all of the modern followers (in America and around the world) all exhibit the same phenotype and the same pathetic behaviour

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:39:44 2021 No.18054699

>>18052069
and left wing socialists are the shock troops of the same (old and new money) families and oligarchs that you yourself criticised. Left wing politics in America is now based entirely around 'Anti-racism' and deconstruction of anything European or formerly WASP.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:52:43 2021 No.18054761 >>18049604 pls i just want more money from my boss so i can pay my rent. pls

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 09:53:44 2021 No.18054771 >>18054699 See the link below. That is basically the summary of what modern lefty liberal types believe, most of their action is based around that focus https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzOKYqwUUAYfee5?format=jpg&name=large

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 10:04:43 2021 No.18054807 >>18049604 spooked nigga

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 10:08:18 2021 No.18054825

>>18053100
Lets be clear: When China does invade Taiwan--as is looking highly likely based on Taiwan's refusal to integrate with the Mainland--and if USA (and her allies) come to the aid of Taiwan then it will set off a greater conflict.

Now China is poised to have the ability to steamroll all of her neighboring nation-states--if China is not already at that point (they've been known to conceal military data). One observer has speculated Taiwan, in her current state, would last two weeks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4uotsKHuNQ

Now taking US involvement in the matter, China still has the advantage from the fact that it is her home region--logistics are far easier for China compared to the US. Plus China has huge numbers and to add to this the fact that the US is already overextending herself--the flashpoint in Ukraine, and the whole Middle East conundrum.

Honestly these continued arms sale to Taiwan should really frighten most people as it decreases the time China has to make her move.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 10:08:27 2021 No.18054827

>>18054518
>biggest cities in murica tend to be democrat run and highly expensive and highly unpleasant places to live, but it's where a ton of the money is
>small town and rural america has opioid problems (but so do the cities) and not a lot of money but is much safer and quieter
it's too bad the big cities are so dirty, shit-caked, and unbearable

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 10:28:06 2021 No.18054921 >>18054827 Indeed. Unsafe, unclean, rioting many times per year, ineffective and incompetent governance, retarded political pandering that does nothing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 10:50:05 2021 No.18055014 >>18050544 >if you believe the motive force of history is the revolutionary struggle of the workers Sorry I'm not delusional.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 10:55:41 2021 No.18055041 >>18054663 This "wokeism" you talk about is literally non-existent outside of gated neoliberal communities. Leave your echo chamber for once you fucking retard

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 10:58:25 2021 No.18055059 >>18050921 Do you have one that doesn't involve jews or dick-mutilating "gods"?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 11:04:26 2021 No.18055100 >>18055041 It's literally everywhere, stop trying to gaslight people

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 11:07:56 2021 No.18055117

>>18055041
I don't live in a gated community, nor am I American, nor do I live in a nice area.
This retarded braindead ideology still exists and manages to perpetuate itself though. The most outward and discernible aspects of it are found amongst a smaller group of people, but the rest of our societies are still affected.
Governmental institutions, academic institutions, a large majority of media groups are still perpetuate this, or a modern ideology along those lines, that has focus on anti-racism, deconstruction and being guilty of historic offences against a 'new population'. White privilege, impact of the slave trade, the benefits of 'diversity' were all taught in my (Non-American) school despite some of them being irrelevant

I don't really care whether you agree with me or not, the evidence of this change is there to see. 'Wokeism' is just a stupid name for the modern, extremely liberal, western political ideology. I don't care what you call it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 11:10:22 2021 No.18055134 >>18055041 What do you call it when 'diversity and unconscious bias training' is pushed in public and private workplaces, along with seminars on the benefits of diversity. Libraries and Universities talking about 'whiteness' or a guity colonial past

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 11:11:28 2021 No.18055138 >>18049604 Homage to Catalonia convinced me to become an anarchist.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 11:18:22 2021 No.18055175 >>18054679 Your false assumption of what human nature is is a poor argument.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 11:36:04 2021 No.18055259

>>18055175
It wasn't an argument, it was a statement of fact. It is only an argument if you've deluded yourself into thinking that wasn't one of it's failures.
Or obviously, like most Communists do, you could just blame it on the eternal fascist enemy, which hasn't existed since the second world war.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 11:37:03 2021 No.18055265 >>18050555 >Democrat >leftist

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 11:37:19 2021 No.18055267 >>18055138 kek, so you can fight amongst your allies, brutalise the clergy, make yourself unpopular and then lose the war? There might be an autonomous zone in Portland that is more suited to your ideology

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 11:40:00 2021 No.18055283 >>18055134 I call it a pointless exercise in self-righteousness by the petite-bourgeoisie

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 11:41:26 2021 No.18055295

>>18055265
they don't fit your ideal, but that is what they are. Their social policies are left wing, they're for reparations, they're for mass migration, they're for the LGBTQ ideology, they're for supporting 'BIPOC' over whites for political gain and so on....

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 11:42:48 2021 No.18055307

Marxism has shed the class aspect and adopted racial identity.

Ethno-marxism is what we are seeing. People are identified as a racial enemy (white priviledge) instead of class enemy (class privildge). Class rarely enters mainstream discussion, race does.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 11:43:06 2021 No.18055312 >>18055283 Hardly pointless when it prepares the formerly majority white population of X country for change brought about by mass migration. It's not pointless if it 'educates' them to prevent a reaction

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 14:31:55 2021 No.18056298 >>18051520 either a good troll or genuinely 80iq cant tell

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 14:32:18 2021 No.18056301 >>18055267 I'm not actually an anarchist lol just trying to get a rise out of you fags.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 14:49:42 2021 No.18056381 >>18056301 kek

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 15:14:01 2021 No.18056493

>>18053342
Just kill yourself bro.
>That's not the fault of family
It is the fault of the family. Imagine being such a fucking retard you think the family is infallible. You are such a degenerate.
>>18054575
Not a communist, retard. I don't like communists, or slave morality degenerates like you.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 15:16:19 2021 No.18056500

>>18053342
>Replace a system by humans with a system by humans it will have no flaws
This is the stupidity of communists and people like you. Your inability to let the individual to develop on own its. Instead, you wish to nanny it with your problems and your ambitions. You should just be fucking shot honest.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 15:18:30 2021 No.18056512 >>18049604 >Jordan Peterson Has there ever been a more boring writer and public speaker?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 15:39:13 2021 No.18056651 >>18056512 apparently not because leftists cant stop shitting their pants and screaming whenever JBP breathes

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 15:40:44 2021 No.18056668

>>18056651
JBP is garbage, and you don't have to be a leftist to see that. Even Joe Rogan made him look like an idiot. JBP would be called a communist by the Republicans here because he supports universal healthcare and has neo-liberal policy positions

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 15:49:34 2021 No.18056739
File: 301 KB, 519x637, ScottyKILLmer.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>18052871
>we aren't destroying families! We're just making them obsolete, making the state and society take control. YAY!
Enslaver to the Gesellschaft. Abolisher of the Gemeinschaft.
People will be equally, if not more miserable as a result.
Having no control over anything, not even your own offspring.
Never reproduce, demon.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 15:54:33 2021 No.18056795 >>18051404 Why do you reject the correlation between stupid and unsuccess?

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 15:55:45 2021 No.18056803

>>18056739
You already have no control over offspring when they reach a certain age, and you certainly can't treat them like slaves. You really are stupid person, no? The problem you have is you see the family as absolute, and a retard like you, doesn't seem to understand that family has an extreme amount of coercion over children and the mother. This is clearly flawed because the family may not have the child's best interests in mind. Wishing away these problems by screeching about "muh family" doesn't change the fact that family can abusive, or even tyrannical towards children. Thankfully, idiots like you live in societies where the family has become very much irrelevant.
>state and society
There's are the same thing, retard. You're a fascist - you would want want the same thing, no? That's why both you, and communists should be put down.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 16:03:43 2021 No.18056863

>>18056803
You are absolutely projecting. You say I have ABSOLUTELY no control, and then you imply that I have ABSOLUTE control.
You think in purely absolute terms, and think that families have zero sway whatsoever.
You are only creating a horizontal leveling in the end.
You don't even know what the terms mean.
Your one-sided interpretation only reveals how much of a dullard you are, with the amount of self awareness you lack being a cherry on top.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 16:07:44 2021 No.18056885

>>18056803
>>18056863
To add to your contradictions, I think it speaks for itself. So is the family coercive, with only the worst interests in mind, or is it powerless and redundant?
You seem to have an irrational predisposition to dislike the family.
The state only has the best intention in as much as it sees its members as useful and obedient, which the family unit works as a wall against.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 16:09:26 2021 No.18056897

>>18056863
You ESL having faggot - I said you WANT absolute control. I say, in reality, you don't have absolute control because the state, and society, already has some level of control over your children due to public schooling, child protective services, and laws against child marriage, slavery, and labor. And you certainly lose control over them when they become an adult. All things you're complaining about, you dumb motherfucker, has already happened.
No one is projecting, faggot. You want absolute control of children. You want have the right to rape them, to treat them as slaves, and you even want abortion because it may be in the interests of the family. You want absolute control over the child by the family, but is not possible and has never been possible. You are duplicitous, two faced fucking rat.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 16:15:11 2021 No.18056938
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>>18056897
You are mentally ill and think in purely black and white terms.
Families will always have a degree of control, and they should have.
Those institutions contribute to the Gemeinschaft.
They give room for differentiation and I'm certain that they contribute to a better well being.
Did you get raped and beaten? Is that where the mental illness comes from?

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 16:18:51 2021 No.18056969

>>18056938
The family should have no control unless it is the best interests of the individual child. When the child can be self sufficient, and no longer dependent on the family, then the individual has no reason value or to care about the family unless they desire it.
>>18056938
But you are the mentally ill person though. You're here defending the absolute rule of the family over the individual. You think its okay for children be raped by their parents because the family should have some control over them.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 16:25:46 2021 No.18057015
File: 10 KB, 259x194, (You).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>18056969
>The family should have no control unless it is the best interests of the individual child. When the child can be self sufficient, and no longer dependent on the family, then the individual has no reason value or to care about the family unless they desire it.
And who determines that?
We have the law, a principle of innocent before proven guilty. If you do bad to your children, you get them taken away from you.
>But you are the mentally ill person though. You're here defending the absolute rule of the family over the individual. You think its okay for children be raped by their parents because the family should have some control over them.
Why don't you kill yourself then? Aren't people outside of society capable of monstrous things? Has society not been the one who kidnaps, and the parents fighting to find the child desperately?
It goes both ways.
I know absolute control is not possible, that is why I don't have a problem, and actually think they are good, because it is prosperous to the psyche. Do you know the effects of not growing up with a father are like?
Why don't you kill yourself, since humans kill, rape, nuke, and genocide. You are a part of humanity. Shame be upon you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 16:34:23 2021 No.18057074 >>18056668 see?

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 16:35:29 2021 No.18057082

>>18057015
>And who determines that?
The child does when they are able to reach the age to have the ability rebel against the family.
>We have the law, a principle of innocent before proven guilty.
So you literally contradicted yourself, retard. You said you did not want the state to have control over the child - where do you think laws come from, you fucking retard? Who do you think enforces them. Fucking dumbass.
>Do you know the effects of not growing up with a father are like?
Clearly, a retard like you against the state have adoptive services to help fatherless children to find fathers because that's communism to a fucking retard like you.
>Why don't you kill yourself, since humans kill, rape, nuke, and genocide
Because retards like you mis the point completely. My responsibility to not solve the murderous, destructive habitats of human beings. My responsibility to satisfy my own needs, and I do not do that by "serving humanity", "the family", and wasting my time solving their endless bickering and bitching. Regardless of what asinine beliefs you have; you share the same fate - a death that will dissolve you and everything you've attached yourself too - including "the family" you fucking moron. In the mean time; I will do the things that make me happy, and I spit in the face any rat, like yourself, who dares assert you have any authority of me, or that any human construct be it the family, the state, religion et should have absolute control over me.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 17:07:25 2021 No.18057294

>>18056493
>It is the fault of the family. Imagine being such a fucking retard you think the family is infallible. You are such a degenerate.
SHow me on this doll where your parents hurt you alright?
The fact that you had shitty parents doesn't mean everyone does. If you didn't come from a line of degenerate fuckups reinforcing mental illness, you'd probably be a decent person. The family isn't infallible, but it's better than many other systems such as state education.
>>18056500
Jesus christ I really hope this is bait but you probably really think this. Please go treat your mental illness, you're delusional.
The individual cannot develop on its own, it needs reference. Which will always be a system built by humans. If not, you get those wild beast children. Retard.

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 18:06:27 2021 No.18057655

This was his critique of the Fabian society and Bernard Shaw. They were specifically oligarchical socialists that talked about how poor people need to be killed and exhibited the worst aspects of the bourgeois (despite claiming to be socialists) and were all concerned with eugenics.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 18:24:10 2021 No.18057769 >>18057082 >you share the same fate - a death that will dissolve you and everything you've attached yourself too Ha, wrong. I don't think i've seen a bigger retard on this board. This is why no one likes you

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 18:25:13 2021 No.18057776 >>18057082 Just because you were either fatherless or suffered some sort of abusive parenting, doesn't mean you have to take it out on the families of others bro

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 18:29:06 2021 No.18057808

>>18057294
Imagine you're out fishing with you father, sat talking and having a good time, then this little man comes up to you and starts shouting about how if your father wasn't there you would have grown up and fully met your potential, and that the family needs to be deconstructed.
You and your father then knock him out and throw him in the lake, because he weighs 50kg and has low test

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 18:32:12 2021 No.18057828 >>18057776 Fucking based

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 18:33:04 2021 No.18057835 >>18055307 And that's exactly how the elites programmed it. Large corporations arent gonna find a way to capitalize on occupy wallstreet but with race there's a few ways

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 20:22:45 2021 No.18058658 >>18057808 I really hope it was bait but I doubt it

Anonymous Sun Apr 18 20:36:24 2021 No.18058763
File: 10 KB, 236x236, 5314AA8B-4C06-4790-9FA1-CE09E8E558B2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>commie retards WEWUZZING Orwell

Modern socialists and communists hate Orwell because he told the truth about them. They always shit on him for not being a brain dead Stalinist until non-communists bring up 1984 and then in the next moment they’re tripping over each other to point out he was on the Republican side in the civil war and he was a socialist. It’s so pathetic. Yeah, let’s talk about what happened to him in Spain you fucking faggots.

Also, Orwell snitched to the intelligence agencies about all of his communist friends so...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orwell%27s_list

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 18 21:09:56 2021 No.18059005 >>18058763 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chSM5aNQ3kY

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 01:19:01 2021 No.18060599 >>18050907 none have failed. name one welfare state that has failed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 01:45:15 2021 No.18060725 >>18060599 The United States of America

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 01:48:42 2021 No.18060746 >>18059005 holy fuck i want to burn her room to the ground

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 01:51:18 2021 No.18060761 >>18059005 this is better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfabA0KdniY

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 01:53:21 2021 No.18060772 >>18059005 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfabA0KdniY

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 01:54:38 2021 No.18060774 >>18059005 also antifa was a stalinist movement and Orwell would not have been a part of that group

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 01:58:37 2021 No.18060794 >>18054506 adolph reed? mark fisher? vivek chibber? zizek? even the chapos? if the retards in the brooklyn dsa don't like them, there's probably a reason for it

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 01:59:59 2021 No.18060799 >>18054506 i have a draft of a reductio where i justify nazism with intersectionality

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 02:04:40 2021 No.18060821 >>18049990 Religion

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 02:08:32 2021 No.18060840 >>18056651 Not a leftist. Also I don't take Twitter seriously. JPB is still the most bland and milquetoast faggot out there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 02:12:13 2021 No.18060857 >>18060774 But he was though - he fought with the Republic against the Nationalists who were armed by the Axis powers

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 02:14:17 2021 No.18060867

>>18057294
>>18057808
You both unironically need to be shot for being this stupid. If you can't understand the simply fact that family is not necessary in the best interests of the child, and the child has no obligation to the family when they are their own individual - there's no hope you for you. You just need to be shot for being stupid.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 02:17:29 2021 No.18060880 >>18060867 Only people with shitty families think this. Like how only ugly incels hate women.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 02:21:07 2021 No.18060908 >>18054506 No one does this because leftists know identify politics aren't left-wing values.

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 02:21:30 2021 No.18060911

>>18060880
Dude, like, I understand that are there people in this world have to be murdered, and those people tend to have the opinions have. You just need to be shot honestly, and your family also be rounded up in shot. I don't waste my time with "reasonable debates" with idiots. Just get shot, and pray that we don't meet because I would shoot somebody like you. Your children should be shot too so idiots like you don't reproduce.

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 02:30:23 2021 No.18060956

>>18060880
The problem with this world we don't have enough violence against people like you. Too many weak, degenerate individuals are obsessed with "decency" and "being nice" when they just shoot idiots like you. The world would be a better place if people would just murder idiots like you

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 02:41:36 2021 No.18060984

>>18050170
Production personella in industry, construction workers and other trades are those that actually produce real value and allow others to consume the fruits of their labor.
More English majors and HR personnel will not create food for people, nor will they create cars or dishwashers.

Proles are those that are critical for society to function, engineers are critical for material progress and most of /lit/ are leeches and hate both groups.
Power point creating English majors in prestigious position sare way bigger leeches than actual welfare recipients.

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 02:49:26 2021 No.18061006

>>18060984
Workers don't produce value, retard. Consumers do. Producers are just cogs in the machine. Communism, Marxism is just Manichaeism for people who hate those who can make money. These ideologies attract degenerates like you because are a narcissist with a hero complex. You don't speak for anyone, but your own self serving ambitions. You're just a control freak with a loud mouth, and sadly no one has just slapped the shit out of you, psuedo.

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 02:54:50 2021 No.18061016

>>18061006
I am not a Marxist, I'm right wing.

Surely you do realize no matter how much you group masturbate with your friends no elevators will be produced and no new tik tok clones will be made?

I made no argument about investments and capital nor about their uses so please don't assume my position as Marxist again.

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 02:57:51 2021 No.18061025

>>18061016
Count.

If you want there to be 0.4 cars per capita in your society then it doesn't matter what theory of value you base your society and economy on.

At least 0.4 cars have to be produced per capita within the average lifetime of a car or the goal will never be reachable.

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 03:07:46 2021 No.18061050

>>18061016
>I am not Marxist, ring wing
There's literally no meaningful difference. You're both degenerate, slave moralists. One's the state, the other is the reaction.
>Surely you do realize no matter how much you group masturbate with your friends no elevators
Who says I need a fucking elevator? I'm not crippled, like you, I got two legs. I can take the stairs.
>If you want there to be 0.4 cars per capita in your s
This is exact problem with you fucking degenerates - you fetishization of technology, materialism, growth - meaningless vanities as a measurement of value that I don't have to accept or care about. Man is the measure of all value, and he has no reason care about anything, but his own self.

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 03:20:49 2021 No.18061117
File: 24 KB, 321x449, lain.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>18057082
No, you miss the point entirely, because you are retarded.
Go throw yourself down the river like in antiquity when they didn't want the child, and let us see what fate meets you. You will always be a slave unless you live on Pluto.
And let me remind you, you paragon of projection, that I never asserted absolute control of the family.
You can't see past your own nose.
>Clearly, a retard like you against the state have adoptive services to help fatherless children to find fathers because that's communism to a fucking retard like you.
I never said I'm against it, idiot. I'm saying I don't like the communist notion (YOU YOURSELF HAVE CITED) of abolishing the family.
To your surprise perhaps, there exists a position outside of binaries, of the false dilemma you're trying to posit here of absolute control of the family or the abolition of it.
>The child does when they are able to reach the age to have the ability rebel against the family.
Almost as if that happens when you are 18 years old.
My entire point is that the notion of abolishing the family is based on premises that are already solved by the laws I referred to, and that you still can't figure it out is amazing.
Stop with the projecting, straw manning and false dilemmas.
>Who do you think enforces them. Fucking dumbass.
A giant difference between the fucking abolishment of the family and the state implementing laws to not get another raped in the ass nigger like you.

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 03:26:20 2021 No.18061147

>>18061050
>This is exact problem with you fucking degenerates - you fetishization of technology, materialism, growth - meaningless vanities as a measurement of value that I don't have to accept or care about. Man is the measure of all value, and he has no reason care about anything, but his own self
To the did not understand me at all you are not even a midwit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:13:26 2021 No.18061353 >>18060956 >>18060911 Kek, someone disagrees with you and you go full sperg mode

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:27:40 2021 No.18061412

>>18060956
>>18060911
To many retarded individuals that sperg out when you suggest the family, one of the oldest and proven forms of raising children, is one of the best for them. No one cares about your power fantasies of shooting people and their kids because they disagree with you.

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:29:24 2021 No.18061420

>>18061117
The communist abolition of the family, which was explained to a retard like you, means creating social services that economically phase out the family. But, a dumb ass like you, calls that communism. You need to kill yourself.
>>18061353
No, honestly, bro, you shit up the entire board. You need to be shot. Its not sperging to acknowledge that some people are so hopeless stupid, and worthless, that shooting them would be a net benefit for a humanity. I can't imagine you being gone would be meaningful difference to the world. There is not a single intelligent form of life in this thread, and they all should be shot. When I'm in a thread with people who think children should treated as property because state taking care of them for abusing them is a "communism." There is just not point in talking to you. The fact that you are samefagging this much is more proof you need to be blown away.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:30:52 2021 No.18061425 This speech changed my life forever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiwTYctDVfw

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:31:21 2021 No.18061426

>>18061412
Its proven to produce degenerates like you, so, I really doubt its a good insitution. You just scream about the "family", and act as if it wishes away the amount of coercion, and abuse, the family has towards the individual. Like, you just need to be shot, and its perfectly okay to shoot people who disagree with you. Who gives a fuck if you die. You're worthless.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:33:20 2021 No.18061429 >This book was recommended by Jordan Peterson It's a well known book by a well-known writer Fuck off with your YT-cults and your identity politics, the board is for literature

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:33:38 2021 No.18061430 File: 49 KB, 283x323, tea.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18061420 Doesn't matter. It's part of communist ideology. I don't care if it is communist or not in itself. I don't agree with it. >You need to kill yourself. You are already dead.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:36:11 2021 No.18061437 >>18061430 Its a good thing people like you bleed, so, there's not much to worry about what the fuck you are against. I'm against you having fucking oxygen because you're wasting it on your worthless existence you nigger

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:38:36 2021 No.18061444 >>18061437 >I'm against you having fucking oxygen No one gives a shit what you think Cry harder

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:40:17 2021 No.18061450 File: 1.16 MB, 640x360, bullets.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18061437 I wonder, seething monkey, how you imagine a society should function without families, while not being raised by the state.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:41:24 2021 No.18061456 >>18061429 here here

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:43:35 2021 No.18061461 >>18061437 imagine having to deal with this person in real life. Feel sorry for every person who has to fake politeness to it....

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:43:37 2021 No.18061462 >>18061426 nta but it's always funny when all someone has left is regressing to being an edgy 13 year old fully seething

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:47:59 2021 No.18061478 >>18060867 imagine infecting yourself with an "ism" so badly that you forget you come from the animal kingdom

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:49:13 2021 No.18061484 >>18061450 Just as it functions now. And the family hasn't always existed either, and more so retard, the family isn't a guarantee from the reality from the world - nobody family is going to save you from death nor will god.

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:50:42 2021 No.18061487

>>18052871
>The family can among the most abusive institutions to exist - your parents literally indoctrinate you without you ever having consent, and they also have a level of coercion against you - economic and physical

and this MUPPET would hand over that to the state.
ask me how i know this MUPPET has not read one word of modern history in his life.
You can also ask me why he will never be a woman as well.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:51:26 2021 No.18061491 >>18061478 Like, humanism and materialism, the things you cherish, and the things life will thankfully take away from you

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:52:37 2021 No.18061495 >>18061050 >meaningless vanities as a measurement of value >he has no reason care about anything, but his own self. Kek

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:54:05 2021 No.18061501 >mfw lower class >still understand what Orwell said when he talks about the lower classes smelling Sometimes I come across people and I am just absolutely disgusted by their accent and their actions.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:54:07 2021 No.18061502 >>18061420 >When I'm in a thread with people who think children should treated as property because state taking care of them for abusing them is a "communism." You never heard of social services before or what? >Samefagging Ahahahahahaha

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:55:10 2021 No.18061507 >>18061495 >I don't have to value your morals >I can create my own meaning without being a Christian degenerate with a Protestant Work Ethic Yes

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:55:14 2021 No.18061509 >>18049604 Good book. I agree with you, OP. Stay away from Orwell's traditional novels like Burmese Days etc. They're terrible.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:55:15 2021 No.18061508 >>18061426 You're projecting bro

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:55:25 2021 No.18061510 >>18061491 I'm pretty convinced that every other anon in this thread will have a more pleasant time on this earth than you're capable of, anyway. No matter their own hardships

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:56:12 2021 No.18061511 >>18061510 The entire thread is you samefagging though

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:58:31 2021 No.18061518 >>18061491 you wont be able to access your communist state childcare once your dead as well cringe bro

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:58:40 2021 No.18061519 >>18050280 Are you joking? Bernie Sanders.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:59:11 2021 No.18061522 >>18061518 The fact that you don't have children is a blessing

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:59:34 2021 No.18061524 I don't give a shit about communism, socialism or capitalism because we're on a ship that's way too big to steer in any direction. Any "change" will have no bearing on the ships course

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 04:59:40 2021 No.18061525

>>18061501
Modern day reflexive disdain for lower class types usually manifests in stuff like making fun of the obese or poorly dressed in walmarts. Seeing photos of fatties who have gone too long without using some shampoo and look like a gelatinous blob when they walk around.

>>18061511
I'm not even one of the anons you spent a while throwing a tantrum at. Just making a very plain as day observation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:01:49 2021 No.18061534 >>18061525 A stroll through the plaza is one of the most depressing things for me, especially during a holiday or big sale

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:06:06 2021 No.18061543 File: 117 KB, 640x784, lotto-winner.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18061534 forgive the outdated text but when you see something like pic related you kinda quickly understand what Orwell was feeling when he felt put off

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:08:07 2021 No.18061552 >>18061543 please don't post this stuff

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:09:11 2021 No.18061555 >>18061511 Not it isn't. Stop acting like a child you mong, I bet you're no older than 17

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:10:32 2021 No.18061558 is it possible to find a middle class GF or will I stink too much. ;-;

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:12:18 2021 No.18061567 File: 722 KB, 600x800, 1618823538796.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] wtf I love the proletariat now

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:12:21 2021 No.18061568

>>18061522
Why would you want the state to have more control over your children, when you can see currently what that entails? They get indoctrinated into being a gay antiracist who hates themself by the time they've finished 'high school'.
Unless you always want some radical revolution, but obviously that ain't happening.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:15:08 2021 No.18061580 >>18061567 UK middle class lefties love working class immigrants but hate the native working class because they are usually anti-immigration lol. No surprise when they're on the economic and social recieving end of the migrations

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:19:46 2021 No.18061593 >>18061568 You clearly don't want lose your monopoly of raping children, like many Catholic households tend to do, so, I do see why you would hate someone else having time with them.

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:21:42 2021 No.18061599

>>18061580
I never really looked into how they justified the immigration issue to themselves. Simply numbers wise doesn't ever-increasing competition just make it harder on the residents already living there? And the working class already have it tough as it is, seems a bit cruel

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:23:01 2021 No.18061606 >>18061593 anon, /lit/ isn't for your childhood autobiography

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:24:00 2021 No.18061608 >>18061593 Pure delusion mate, again you are projecting. t. Not a yank, not a Catholic. Fuck the Fenian scum

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:24:15 2021 No.18061611 File: 278 KB, 602x644, 1605870431086.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18061606 why didn't my parents love me

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:25:07 2021 No.18061613 >>18061606 Its so weird how you defend child abuse under the guise of the family. Why do you want to hurt children, anon? It is because they tell you to go kill yourself like you should

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:28:50 2021 No.18061623 >>18061613 I'm not the other anon, it was just a good opening and it's already obvious to everyone you only care about getting the last word in out of seething, not muh children or whatever

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:29:03 2021 No.18061625 >>18061599 Yes, it is. But obviously that gets glossed over and hardly spoken about. It was one of the contributing factors towards the Brexit vote

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:30:05 2021 No.18061631 >>18061613 >Why do you want to hurt children, anon? ????

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:31:37 2021 No.18061633 >book is called The Road to Wigan Pier >Never gets to Wigan Pier >because it was destroyed FAKE BOOK

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:32:06 2021 No.18061635

>>18061623
just gonna samefag constantly, and defend child marriage, and child rape, abortion because you hold the family as sacred, and clearly having social services stopping hurting them. That's fucked up anon. Even more so, you're going to claim I'm "seething" because I don't approve of you fucking your child. This is the wrong chan for it, you might want 8kun

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:33:47 2021 No.18061644 >>18061635 Why are you replying to me? I already told you you're just funny to jab I don't give a shit

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:42:54 2021 No.18061685

>>18061613
>Splitting (also called black-and-white thinking or all-or-nothing thinking) is the failure in a person's thinking to bring together the dichotomy of both positive and negative qualities of the self and others into a cohesive, realistic whole. It is a common defense mechanism.[1] The individual tends to think in extremes (i.e., an individual's actions and motivations are all good or all bad with no middle ground).
You were raped.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:43:00 2021 No.18061686 >>18061635 Everyone is making fun of you because you are clearly projecting your abusive upbringing in these spergposts.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:48:06 2021 No.18061699 You MEAN, BAD anons!!! You all triggered someone when this is supposed to be a safe space ! !

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 05:56:09 2021 No.18061726 >>18049990 What is the Noblesse Oblige?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 06:05:42 2021 No.18061762 >>18053688 >they said it would abolish capitalist class relations So defectives genes want to wage zero sum darwinian war against healthy genes through other means beneficial to them. Wow what a galaxy brain idea.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 06:11:30 2021 No.18061784 >>18049630 kek, based

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 06:23:02 2021 No.18061832 >>18052871 > daddy issues justify my retarded ideology Lmao

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 06:24:57 2021 No.18061842 >>18055041 Gaslight pilpul is off the charts

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 06:25:58 2021 No.18061848 >>18055283 More like you live in a ghetto commie echo chamber

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 07:38:36 2021 No.18062103

>>18049990
Marxism isn’t about aiding the poor. It is about establishing elite control over society and the ushering in of a new social, economic, and political order under the guise of giving control to the workers. Marxism is unwelcoming. It is confrontational and cult like. A world apart from the human salt of the earth socialism of the social democrats that Marxists so hate.
Marxism seeks to upend and destroy and terrorise. It seeks the estrangement of man from his national community and religion and renders him a slave to those in control of the revolution.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 19 08:33:09 2021 No.18062314 >>18054506 Go read Zizek.

Anonymous Mon Apr 19 10:15:28 2021 No.18062869

>>18060911
>You both unironically need to be shot for being this stupid
>You just need to be shot for being stupid.
>You just need to be shot honestly, and your family also be rounded up in shot. I
> Just get shot, and pray that we don't meet because I would shoot somebody like you.
>Your children should be shot too so idiots like you don't reproduce.
How old are you? 12? If not, please go seek help. What an absolute retard. You're not even funny, it's just sad.

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/lit/ - Literature