/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18037403]

Fascism is simply a means to defend western civilization from socialist revolutionaries. The end goal of Fascism is Liberalism.

[Anonymous No.18037414]

>>18037403
The end goal of Fascism is Liberalism
The end goal of Fascism is Communism
The end goal of Fascism is Fascism
The end goal of Liberalism is Liberalism
The end goal of Liberalism is Communism
The end goal of Liberalism is Fascism
The end goal of Communism is Liberalism
The end goal of Communism is Communism
The end goal of Communism is Fascism

[Anonymous No.18037431]

>>18037414
This. They are all populist, materialist bullshit.

[Anonymous No.18037433]

"To-morrow, Fascists and communists, both persecuted by the police, may arrive at an agreement, sinking their differences until the time comes to share the spoils. I realise that though there are no political affinities between us, there are plenty of intellectual affinities. Like them, we believe in the necessity for a centralised and unitary state, imposing an iron discipline on everyone, but with the difference that they reach this conclusion through the idea of class, we through the idea of the nation."
—Benito Mussolini

"To-day we can affirm that the capitalistic method of production is out of date. So is the doctrine of laissez-faire, the theoretical basis of capitalism… To-day we are taking a new and decisive step in the path of revolution. A revolution, in order to be great, must be a social revolution."
—Benito Mussolini

"Not everyone who wants to be a fascist is one. A mere nationalist cannot be one, because he has not the slightest idea of socialism."
—Pierre Drieu La Rochelle

[Anonymous No.18037446]

>>18037403
No. In certain cases, authoritarian regimes falsely called "fascist" like that of Pinochet or Ferdinand Marcos solely existed to defend global capitalism and the free-market. Proper Fascism is very much it's own thing, closer to left-wing nationalism than anything else.

[Anonymous No.18037459]

>>18037446
This, literally any fascist you could read and learn they despise liberalism equally to socialism

[Anonymous No.18037554]

>>18037431
To call fascisms "materialist" would imply its ethos existing within the realm of material reality. It does not. It exists within a pipe dream idealism of the "folk" and the "nation" which has never objectively existed in a material way. Fascism is violently charged idealism. There is next to nothing material about it.

[Anonymous No.18037564]

>>18037459
I don't know if I would say they despise them "equally" per se. The fascist certainly despises liberalism, but he also categorizes socialism as an existential threat to fascism itself. The fascist sees modern politics squarely within dichotomous opposition of fascism and socialism.

[Anonymous No.18037573]

>Ludwig von Mises was born to Jewish parents in the city of Lemberg

[Anonymous No.18037586]

>>18037554
>nation states have never objectively existed in any material way
imagine being this stupid lol

[Anonymous No.18037751]

>>18037554
Fascism and Marxism are two sides of the same coin. Both vehemently tout this idea of "men of action" and reject contemplation in any form.

[Anonymous No.18037907]

>>18037403
The end goal of Fascism is Argentina, since they are the only country that was actually able to carry out fascism to its logical conclusion.
Which is to say, incoherent populism from the left and the right, with a whole bunch of wishful thinking in the economic sphere.
I say this as someone who admires fascism, but the right wingers who think it would be paradise on earth are as delusional as the left wingers who think anything short of enthusiastic stalinism is fascist.

[Anonymous No.18038156]

>>18037586
The nation state is a modern conception of the 19th century, anon. For most of human history the "state" as an entity has not existed. You would have to be a literal retard to think otherwise.

[Anonymous No.18038172]

>>18038156
whew that goal post sure moved fast, first there were no nation states now nation states are a 19th century conception

[Anonymous No.18038233]

>>18037403
What makes people so hyper-spooked that they talk of various -isms so freely, as if these terms aren't highly complex, to the point of being borderline meaningless?

And it's not just shitposters here either. You can easily find acclaimed public intellectuals having talks like "communism vs capitalism". It's cringe af.

[Anonymous No.18038621]

>>18037433
Has anyone read Will O' the Wisp by Pierre Drieu La Rochelle?
If so, is it good?

[Anonymous No.18038754]

>>18038233
I think it's probably more of a process than anything else, or boxes with a checklist that you just mark off with a pen. The person today who most reminds me of the "original" fascists is Elon Musk, basically. I appear to be the only person who thinks this, but I just get that vibe. He's not into class warfare, but he probably believes the current crop of bourgeoisie are decadent and don't have the will to cut through the red tape and reinvigorate people through energy and speed and technology. He's also running a scam, too, and he is known as being a office tyrant who fires people on the spot to show that he's the supreme leader.

He has called himself a "socialist" while he's also the richest man in the world. And then his arthouse girlfriend is into this futurist stuff about tech, violence, neoclassical architecture and so on. That's what they're "in to" and they would love to be the lords of the earth, just like these Mussolini quotes here: >>18037433

https://youtu.be/M9SGYBHY0qs

https://youtu.be/gYG_4vJ4qNA

[Anonymous No.18038761]

>>18038754
Or NOT boxes with a checklist that is, typo. It's more of an evolving thing.

And of course a bunch of yesterday's petit-booj libertarians love this guy. If he said that he should run everything and dress a vanguard up in slick, futuristic black uniforms with the Tesla logo on them, they would go for it big time.

[Anonymous No.18038763]

>>18038754
>He has called himself a "socialist" while he's also the richest man in the world.
source?

[Anonymous No.18038776]

>>18038763
He was probably trolling a little bit, but I know he's an Iain Banks fan.

[Anonymous No.18038783]

How do we explain the shift of the Chinese nation from Maoism (a kind of radical socialism) to fascism? Is China's Xiism a nationalistic bulwark against internationalist liberalism? It seems to me to simply be nationalists seeing neofacism as a path to sustainable national greatness. That greatness is the goal, not liberalism.

[Anonymous No.18038789]

>>18037403
It's always been this simple: stop trying to destroy us and we'll stop killing you for it. It's an incredibly low bar.

[Anonymous No.18038803]

I'm just screwing around though, don't take what I say too seriously. But it's interesting to me that guys like Peter Thiel are apparently into NRx stuff and some alt-right types early on tried to get him to fund them -- but apparently he didn't. And if I were him, I wouldn't either. That said, I can imagine a sci-fi scenario where you have a futurist-fascist movement from these tech billionaires who try to take over in a decade because China is surpassing the U.S. and poses a threat to them.

Also if you understand political systems and ideologies as also aesthetic philosophies, and Grimes is waving swords around while singing "you can't see what I see... it's violence" while moving around suggestively... it's like, oh man, these people are "on something." Meanwhile, China is bringing back the 1930s-style socialist realism, just like the classics:

https://youtu.be/ojpN6PjRcQc?t=968

[Anonymous No.18038818]

>>18038783
I think the Chinese are very Marxist actually. Mao was always on the far left of the Communist Party of China. They're very much part of that tradition. Anything that is not liberal to liberals "looks" fascist though.

But people will say "well they have markets" and so forth. Sure. But that misses the point, I feel. It's more about a method of political analysis and thinking based in dialectical and historical materialism.

https://youtu.be/U1qCtjbnj3E

[Anonymous No.18038835]

>>18038783
>>18038818
There is a strong "authoritarian liberal" element in Chinese politics

[Anonymous No.18038845]

>>18037554
>>18038156
Stop

pussy

footin

nigga.

[Anonymous No.18038890]

>>18038835
I think there are different currents and views, and a significant current that is to the left which I think they would call "traditional Marxism" (i.e. "Maoism"), where the party center / core believes in what they call "innovative Marxism." There is also a neoliberal right wing, probably represented by Wang Yang maybe.

If you go to Qiushi, the party's theoretical journal, or just go to the CPC website, you'll find two-hour video study courses on Marxist-Leninist theory. Is this just for show? It's not for us, I had to look this stuff up. I think Western leftists particularly in the U.S., Britain are influenced by Trotskyism and anarchism which can be very uncompromising. But whatever China's system is, Western "fascists" looking toward them as a potential ally will be disappointed, and most of their base in the West don't seem to like the ChiComs very much.

https://youtu.be/RjNcLhaAxQQ

[Anonymous No.18038988]

>>18038835
I also think you might say that Mao was on the left of the party, and Deng was on the right, and Xi is like in the center. "Left" and "right" here mean different things than in a liberal context. This is Xi last month:

http://www.qstheory.cn/dukan/qs/2021-03/31/c_1127274518.htm

That's why communists are going ga ga for this dude. It'd be like Stalin reemerging all of a sudden. The fact that they're not doing central planning is not really the issue here, I feel, that was a means to rapidly industrialize the USSR in the 1930s, so not the same situation.

https://youtu.be/IgUcvqefdjc

I think a Chinese fascist would be Liu Zhongjing (who actually lives in the U.S.). He's really into Oswald Spengler, or you could maybe call him a "revolutionary conservative" or whatever. He was apparently a member of a minor Taiwan-based fascist party called the Chinese Youth Party (中國青年黨), which was actually one of only three parties that were allowed to legally operate when Taiwan was under martial law. Funny that!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Youth_Party

[Anonymous No.18039000]

>>18037403
>means to defend western civilization from socialist revolutionaries
socialism is part of western civilization
>The end goal of Fascism is Liberalism
no shit, everyone who's not a monarchist is a libcuck

[Anonymous No.18039043]

even more delusional than the commies

[Anonymous No.18039047]

>>18039000
>no shit, everyone who's not a monarchist is a libcuck
I'm as red as the eastern sun and I'd rather have a discussion with a monarchist who is into Joseph de Maistre than most "fascists" who just seem like angry people. He'd be looking at me and saying:

>“Have your imagination, if you can, place the red bonnet of Napoleon on the head of Louis XIV, or the wig of Louis XIV on the head of the Corsican; once this effort is made, you will find many points of contact. Take away the revolutionary exaggeration, you will see, on both parts, a great and vainglorious nation forced astray, an abuse of power, outrageous desires, vast projects, poverty, depopulation, and vast humiliations, fruits of a union of forces pushed to an extreme.”

https://youtu.be/liMlM4rhkkA

[Anonymous No.18039247]

>>18037403
>The end goal of Fascism is Liberalism.
Wrong

[Anonymous No.18039251]

>>18038783
They aren't fascist. It's a leftist cope.

[Anonymous No.18039463]

>>18037403
Mises, hayek and ropke are the stupidest people of all time. Can't believe low IQ people take them seriously.

[Anonymous No.18039469]

>>18037403
Fascism is a means of coping with the nihilism brought on by the enlightenment.

Fascism is a shitty way to cope.

[Anonymous No.18039481]

>>18039251
>It's a leftist cope
Only right wingers who think Nazis were right wing think China is fascist, though. It’s a rightist cope.

[Anonymous No.18039539]

>>18039463
Take the nigger penis out of your ass, anon, that'e really gay

[Anonymous No.18040241]

>>18037403
The end goal of fascism is for one narcissist or sociopath to have absolute power. Everything else is meaningless

[Anonymous No.18040342]

>>18037554>>18037431
>>18037459
>>18037554
>>18039469
>>18037433

fascism is an atheism, it's crap made for atheist who want a monarchy but who pussy out when it's time to kill the republic

[Anonymous No.18040350]

>>18039481
China may not be 'right wing' if you're defining it in the old sense but they are clearly somewhat Fascist.

[Anonymous No.18040716]

>>18037403
>The end goal of Fascism is Liberalism.