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/lit/ - Literature

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18036371 No.18036371 [Reply] [Original]

Why are voracious readers tend to be commies, or why are most commies tend to be voracious readers?
Is there something in the ideology that appeals to the intelligentsia?

>> No.18036378

Because there’s a lot of truth in Marxism

>> No.18036393

You can read and debate it endlessly. It's also easy to get sucked into it regardless of your background because it is so wide-reaching and seemingly offers answers to everything.

>> No.18036408

This, and it's also within the bounds of approved discussion. Nobody gets cancelled for having communist leanings. It no longer challenges power and is wholly subsumed by the liberal machine.

>> No.18036412
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>> No.18036493
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Yeah you can only think like this if you're either 15, or a complete retarded.

>> No.18036499
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Is this thread about a specific work?
Op just cares about commies
Read the sticky you jerk!

>> No.18036501

This is the fruits of communism

>> No.18036506

This and Mein Kampf should be mandatory books to read

>> No.18036662

>loli poster

>> No.18036678

That’s a Vice fluff piece. It’s a liberals mag

Why save such a dull picture?

>> No.18036723

>claiming communists are stupid in a thread dedicated to the fact that they're very well read with a childrens cartoon show image

>> No.18036756 [DELETED] 
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Ah, you're right butterfly it's dull it's true.
But I'm calling for cleanup not making you wet.
Though this piece of trash will do both I'll bet

>> No.18036759

Commies either read so much they lose touch with reality or read none and think socialism is when you elect your boss.

>> No.18036771
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The answer is simple OP; Right-wingers don’t have an internally consistent philosophical framework through which they can experience the world. This leads to bitter incelrage and desperately quoting Hayek who was refuted by reality itself. This cognitive dissonance is a positive feedback loop that ends in suicide or mass murder. The left-winger has come to terms with the machinations of Capital. He can calculate the trajectory of the future through scientific material analysis of history, and knows that the internal contradictions of capitalism will either doom humanity or make themselves so apparent that conditions are ripe for a revolution.

That is why left-wingers can appreciate life for what it is and take the time to relax with a good book. Look at all the /pol/cels that identify with Eren only for them to get absolutely wrecked in the end.

>> No.18036774

The world is complicated and takes quite a few words to explain properly, articulately, and throughly.

>> No.18036794

This post is so stupid it doesn’t even warrant a long reply.

>> No.18036802

>That is why left-wingers can appreciate life for what it is
Right that’s why half of modern lefty discourse is about how depressed they are.

>> No.18036821

Ask yourself then why do only modern left wingers address the issue of depression? What righty-poo has ever written about depression from a reactionary non-religious context? I don’t think it’s because of da joos, and I know you don’t buy it either.

>> No.18036829

I don’t even disagree with a bunch of what lefties say about capitalism but claiming that they’re content with life is just a blatant lie.

>> No.18036835

Well, voracious readers tend to not apply any of what they read instead read more, which goes vey well with the leftist's peculiarity of being subsided and tame, which differs from a rightist who is usually more entrepreneurial, thus does not have as much time to read.

>> No.18036839

Rightwingers strive to keep the status quo even as they chafe under the rulers they don’t like.

Lefties are about freedom. The depression is from this oppression and artificiality of state-capitalism

>> No.18036846

god why are left-wingers so clueless about the right, it's so goddamned cringe, it actually pains me so badly. please guys. please.

>> No.18036850

Post right wing literature so that we can learn all about it lol

>> No.18036872

aight try Borzoi's Cultured Grugs

>> No.18036873 [DELETED] 
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Left is for freedom, no state, and no rules
Right is for order, for a cum cup and drools.

>> No.18036877


>> No.18036885

>Rightwingers strive to keep the status quo even as they chafe under the rulers they don’t like.
No we don’t. What the fuck are you talking about? Recently the right has been more suppressed by the state capitalist system than leftists. Even Blumpf supporters were and he’s part of the status quo.

>> No.18036886

>Why are voracious readers tend to be commies

I am a voracious reader and I am an ultrafascist.

>> No.18036889

They think liberalism and capitalism = right wing

>> No.18036893

Look, that dated left-right dichotomy is wrong. Being a stalinist does not mean you're closer to being an anarchist than a nazi is.

>> No.18036894

Categorically false.

>> No.18036903

Because they live in their heads and thrive on ambiguity. They realize they have no actual power and use "dialectic" and criticism to obtain it.

>> No.18036907

A tankie is closer on the x axis to a nazi than a radical anarchist on the y axis.

>> No.18036909

>Lefties are for freedom
Yeah, you daft, son of a bitch, ask any of member of family how the great socialist revolution is doing in Venezuela.

>> No.18036910

>a rightist who is usually more entrepreneurial
literally what

>> No.18036911

This, it's a fantasy.

>> No.18036912


>> No.18036918

>Lefties are about freedom.
Which ones? I can think of many who would agree that it should be a punishable offense to utter something like "nigger" and don't say "Oh, they're just libs." That's your cover story for everything in-camp you don't like.

>> No.18036920

Embarrassing post

>> No.18036933


>> No.18036939

I was rightwing growing up.

True, I know there’s differences. But now where do you stand on the thin blue line doughnut eaters?

They keep voting for it. The bourgeois are the ones who want the invasion. State socialism doesn’t work so well.

Liberals are capitalists and capitalist supporters.

>> No.18036942

pseudo intellectualism is a hell of a drug

>> No.18036947
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Yeah bro it'll happen any day now, just relax and consoom. No need to do anything, carpe diem.

>> No.18036951 [DELETED] 
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I'm posting pornography you silly bitch
I don't care about accuracy I'm scratching an itch
Now pick some books commies wrote to discuss or go jump in a ditch

>> No.18036954

Then please tell me what happened to anarchists in the USSR after Stalin came to power? How were they treated?

>> No.18036959

>Ask yourself then why do only modern left wingers address the issue of depression?
"dude just smoke weed lmao nothing matters anyway" is not addressing depression
most right wingers who arent just generic conservatives are actually interested in the root causes of depression and misery in society and building a structured society that might help keep people on the right track instead of spiraling out of control into the viscous cycles of depression and dependency

>> No.18036961

>Liberals are capitalists and capitalist supporters.
I asked you to refute leftists who believe in speech controls and punitive regimes and you respond by saying 'liberals.' Come on, butterfly.

>> No.18036976

You can't just try and weaponize what you jerk off to and leave the thread

>> No.18036979

Chavez has not won an election fairly since 2006 and Maduro literally dismantled the election committees because he felt like it. Socialism does not bring freedom but slavery to the state and the pigs at the stop. Orwell unironically had it right.

>> No.18036981

>Is there something in the ideology that appeals to the intelligentsia?
Yes, of course. The very origin of communist ideas should tell you that. Communist movements are NEVER started by the people which they profess to want to help. There always exists a group of educated people who believe that they have found the way for society to act independent of the actual opinions of society at large. They are paternalists; always assuming that they have the *correct* way for people to live, regardless of whether or not people are satisfied with how they live in the present moment.

>> No.18036993 [DELETED] 
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Tell me dear Butters, does this interest you?
Now where is that janny?
They've got work to do!

>> No.18037010

People who read a lot tend to be physically weak and so their worldview needs to be one that necessarily puts strong people on even footing with the weak. Communism is for people who don't want to compete.

>> No.18037022
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>ideology that promises rule of the intelligensia
>omg why does the intelligensia love this

>> No.18037026


>> No.18037027

>Why won’t you accept that I see Joe Biden as a leftist?

Orwell was always a socialist
Why can’t rightoitds see in more than just binaries?

>> No.18037033


>> No.18037037

>Why can’t rightoitds see in more than just binaries?
Are you not, by making that statement, guilty of exactly the same?

>> No.18037038

Tripfag btfo

>> No.18037049

>ideology that promises rule of the intelligensia
How exactly?

>> No.18037054

I imagine you on your knees, fondling my balls with your tounge while precum drips down on your forehead. Thoughts?

>> No.18037063

Hot desu ~

>> No.18037067

It justifies parasitic bureaucracy, that is a dream "job" of intelligentsia.
They used to focus on an empowered storytelling (that is priesthood) before as well.

>> No.18037069

No. I acknowledge there are several camps to the rightwing, but you people still call me a Marxist and probably don’t understand what it even means.

>> No.18037071

Everyone in this thread keeps using the same words but have such radically different internal meanings and definitions that no one here is actually able to communicate. No number of (you)s is going make someone understand.

>> No.18037075

Orwell was socialist in the brit sense, which is very much different to what we have in America, where every country was influenced by the cubans who were influenced by the russians.

>> No.18037083

Explain again how your blanket statement "Rightists see in binaries" is not itself an astoundingly binary statement. It doesn't matter whether or not you recognize "camps" of rightists, but if you ascribe to all of them that statement, you are thinking in a binary about that group.

>> No.18037094

>It justifies parasitic bureaucracy
Just say you haven't read a single book on communism

>> No.18037104

Hi, question: (I'm not the poster you were just replying to btw)

Is the idealized end goal for communism that after achieving global communism, the state dissolves and everyone lives in a commune?

>> No.18037115

btw, it only truly appeals to humanities midwits - no such aberrations among actual intelligent people outside of social science circle-jerk.

>> No.18037124

>the left
>no rules
>no state

You clearly have no idea,

>> No.18037126

He fought with the POUM and left admiring the anarchists. Corbyn isn’t even allowed to be that left.

Why do anonymous rightwing appear to be this stupid?
>It doesn’t matter. Getting ridiculously specific won’t save you now. You said it once and that’s it. This is going on your permanent record

>> No.18037153

Can you provide an actual response to my post? If you would elaborate on your positions in your posts a bit more instead of trying to find the most concise zinger to impress idiots with maybe you would have better conversations with people.

>> No.18037154

He was not fighting for the all powerful state to be the representative of the proletariat. He would have wanted Bakunin instead of Marx.

>> No.18037166
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Nobody cares, a country like America will never addopt a radical left government. Your communist apotheosis will never happen, it's just a fairy tale that looks good on paper, but nothing else.

>> No.18037217

America will adopt a neo-liberal government that will exploit communist sympathizers at the behest of global capital however.

>> No.18037262

>>Why won’t you accept that I see Joe Biden as a leftist?
Who are you quoting?

>> No.18037294

It is unimaginable to someone who grew up with great appreciation for the founding fathers. But I disagree with you. Globalism and mass third world migration/invasion/replacement is making it more likely every year. The Globohomo oligarchs push Leftism as a religion in order for the people to accept their policies.

>> No.18037297

This is exactly what is going on.

>> No.18037297,1 [INTERNAL] 

It's crazy that butters is a janny

>> No.18037317


>> No.18037329

Another case of lefties projecting their own illnesses onto the world, then proceeding to accuse everyone else of projecting.
Leftism is a mental illness. Lefty literature is one giant cope to justify their disposition and get whatever little power they can get by browbeating others via criticism and endless discussion.

>> No.18037355
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>> No.18037374

I never got a response to this, so I'll respond because I already know the answer:
They weren't treated well, they were monitored by secret police and their pursuit of anarchy was suppressed at the hands of the new state and many of them were forced into exile and/or arrested/gulag'd/whatever.

There is this naïve operative mentality that anarchists would be welcome in a auth-com society, which is why you see so many 'anarcho' radical types actively aiding in the pursuit of a communist revolution. They're tolerated in the short term 'rainbow coalition' of the left right now, but they won't be should a communist revolution actually occur and the new state needs to stabilize. I think the term 'useful idiot' comes to mind. I have always viewed anarchy as a power vacuum, and something inevitably puts a stop to its self-declared zones that crop up from time to time. Anarchy is more of an abstract concept or ideal than a real arrangement power. Anarchy is forever temporary.

>> No.18037398


>> No.18037411

USSR and liberal coalitions teamed up to overthrow the anarchist system in Spain.

>> No.18037415

People who absorb themselves in books don't tend to be very willful or individualistic. Maybe and likely are they socially reclusive, but they do not wish to be individuals in a spiritual or philosophical sense. They want nothing more than to spend their days buried away in their books, they wish to be parasites. They want a world where they are protected by society no matter how useless they are to it. So collectivist ideologies appeal to them strongly.
Basically they're weak-willed pussies and nerds.

>> No.18037430

Your individualism is completely based on your relationships to others. Your freedoms are just other peoples obligations. What the fuck are you on about.

>> No.18037483

I was doing a little research into that claim, you're saying it was a USSR/other plot to kill Durruti in the Spanish civil war? (I assume thats what you mean) Can you elaborate a bit?

>> No.18037490
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It speaks volumes about you leftist smegma sommeliers that whenever you try to talk about the evils of capitalism or whatever has crawled up your ass/twitter timeline that day, that you cannot help yourselves but to make some terrible, quasi-topical mainstream pop culture reference/analogy about a series or franchise that is so blatantly soulless, corporate crap aimed at the lowest common denominator (and often actual children).
OP comes in with the assertion that communists are "well read" and your flaming faggot ass comes soaring in to proudly display to the thread that, in actuality, you're fucking teenagers, or at least have the mentality and taste of teenagers.
And no, before you start, I do not give a fuck about the ending of Shitgeki or whatever the current drama surrounding it is, I dropped that turd manga back in 2014, when I'm guessing you were still in middle school, at best.
This is a very embarrassing post, and I'd say you're probably embarrassing the other "left-wingers" but most of them are probably just as bad as you, if not worse.

>> No.18037504

I don't know what's confusing to you. Everything I said was pretty basic and clear cut. You're the one speaking in sophistries.
Are you trying to deny individualism as a concept?

>> No.18037529

>likes anime of small girls
>calls others immature retards
4chan never changes.

>> No.18037601
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To be fair, being a self-called communist nowadays is peak autism, even more pathetic than enjoying anime past 30yo. I'm sorry guys but it's the true, it will never work in the real world unless you go back like 500 years and create an entire regime based around it, the world works in a different way and higher demographic only makes capital stronger. Rotation of capital is the future, not the left, not the right, but radical centrism is the real way to go if we want to improve as humanity.
You can cry all you want, it won't change how the real world works and you when you grow older you'll see the current version of yourself as a cartoon, a mere joke.

>> No.18037626

I don't know why you're even having this debate, that guy just used a reaction image. It's entirely possible the guy doesn't even know what anime it's from, or even watches anime at all. He may have just saved it because he thought it was funny.
Meanwhile you have this idiot >>18036771 referencing shitty shounen manga while trying to sound intellectual.

>> No.18037878

>but radical centrism is the real way to go if we want to improve as humanity.

>> No.18037904

>communists believe liberals are right-wing
As a reactionary, it's all so tiresome.

>> No.18037911

most the communists I know dont do much but drugs. the most productive thing they do is playing guitar or or bass in a few cases

>> No.18037914


>> No.18037924

i mean, voting for your boss is pretty fucking socialist

>> No.18037932

>Why do anonymous rightwing appear to be this stupid?
how do you have the gall to post things like this after your entire world view has been completely deconstructed multiple times and you have been completely unable to back it up with any sort of facts or logic grounded in reality and literally admitted multiple times that everything you believe is based off of straight up extremist utopian ideals like the magical power of friendship that will magically solve every single problem? you do realize you have a tripcode so you have to be held responsible for these type of things right? given this context why in gods name should anyone take you seriously when you try to insult the intellectual capacity of others? dont you think saying stuff like this is a little hypocritical?

>> No.18037947

not only are you retarded, but you sound extremely uneducated

>> No.18037958

>has never read marx

>> No.18038010

What else would they be doing? Left wingers have close to 0 power in modern society ruled completely by capital. You can cope with that by tucking yourself into literature and coming up with endless critiques or retarded frameworks to judge everything by in order to assuage your feeling of insecurity/inferiority and place at the bottom of the totem pole. However, at the end of the day nothing will actually come to fruition in our current system without the backing of capital.

>> No.18038514

This is as much fruits of modernism and right-wing ideologies as is of communism though.

>> No.18038958
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Leftists in general lack some of the core values that right-wingers hold, while right-wing individuals on the other hand possess all the ones the left has as well. This leads to a consistent trend of leftists not being able to understand those on the right, as the majority lack both the intellect and experience to understand their opposition. Rightists in turn do not need to be especially intelligent to understand the left, as they can simply mirror their own experiences and values onto them, understanding their motivations quite clearly.

>> No.18038982

>right wing ideologies
No it fucking isn't

>> No.18039009

Reasonable bait. Good enough to hook /pol/niggers and Americans.

>> No.18039125
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>has never read marx
What is it about Marxist's that always solicits such an infantile response to something they deem controversial to their own ideology? How can you gauge that anon has never read Marx? Is Marx so intrinsically correct within his criticism of capitalism, that any criticism of his work is instantaneously disregarded? It's like you're alluding to the fact that Marxism as an ideology is irrevocably correct, and anyone who contests it is being deliberately ignorant.

>> No.18039130

Because commies are lazy and books offer an easy solution.

>> No.18039142

>Is Marx so intrinsically correct within his criticism of capitalism, that any criticism of his work is instantaneously disregarded?
This is how Marxists view his writings, yes. Their views on the man are more religious than anything.

>> No.18039169

Helps them cope I guess

>> No.18039218

It’s really not.
“The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss“

>> No.18039222

Holy based

>> No.18039226

It wasn’t. One of his cumrades got sick of his shit and shot him.

>> No.18039239

Keep telling yourself that. Definitely not like he just took a massive shit all over his keyboard thinking he was profound.

>> No.18039245

The Communist Manifesto is a small "book", hence why it is a manifesto.
Moreso the soft fruits of Modernism with a hint of Marxism.
>Mein Kampf
Absolutely, but not any version with a commentary. People who have such closed intolerant minds comment on the book and it is clear how they deliberately do not want people to think for themselves
>consistent philosophical framework
You sure are insecure, or overconfident, or both.
>Lefties are about freedom
They are under the guise of freedom, but they certainly do not believe in freedom. I'm right wing, but if my gay neighbors want to smoke pot and own an AR15 and be polygamists and satanists at the same time, so be it, as long as they aren't hurting anyone.

One thing leftists can't seem to understand is that while the right wing can have very strong opinions that you think undermines everything you are(i.e. Faggots), you fail to realize that 90% of the time that our beliefs do not always reflect our votes or legislation. I believe faggots will go to hell, and I want them shot for poisoning our youth, but I would never actually do it because unlike you I actually understand morality.

>> No.18039258

What does it not truly answer then?

>> No.18039265


I was gonna tell you that you have obviously never read marx, and that you are, in fact, retarded

I won't bother since you reply with anime girls

>> No.18039298

Post some right-wing theory or lit that can be ripped logically ripped to pieces

>> No.18039300
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>doesn't think the way I do

>> No.18039306

Gee, why is the strawman you assembled and propped up getting upset when you say things like "I want them faggots shot"
This is impressive autism

>> No.18039308


Because capitalism is sustainable and working so well in its current state

Laughing at you and your gay reaction photo

>> No.18039310

It’s very easy to find. Here are 5 floating around in the more intelligent RW internet circles right now:
>On Power by de Jouvenel
>The Machiavellians/The Managerial Revolution by James Burnham
>Political Parties by Michels
>DOTW by Spengler

>> No.18039312

>Because capitalism is sustainable and working so well in its current state

>> No.18039320

It pretends to have an answer, it is no different to a close minded left wing parasite than it is to a christian and his bible. They both pretend to know the inside and out of their literature, yet they cling to an ideology to have some form of identity and solidarity is a thing most people need.
There is no true answer no matter what you read or seek. The only truth you can know for sure is what you think yourself. Why let your life and beliefs be dictated by the ramblings of a bunch of old men with old ideas that have been tried and have failed?

The very same people what wrote this literature are the ones that want to keep us under their thumb. Keep us poor. Keep us as their slaves, as a permanent vassal. They give us comforts and at the same time keep us divided so that we may hate one another, leading us never into battle or to revolution. They lead us only to never unite, because when people unite, they fear a love for one's home will overcome their abilities to be slaves.

>> No.18039334
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>Because capitalism is sustainable and working so well in its current state
But it is, the computer you are posting with is made possible because of capitalism, the internet you use and need every day is possible because of capitalism, the car you drive to work(or to where ever if you're a neet) is possible because of capitalism.

Every single thing we do, appreciate, and have some sort of luxury in is a direct result of capitalism. The USSR pre and post Stalin had very few creature comforts, hell we didn't even have microwaves until the late 80s. You fail to understand that even if it "Has never been tried", there is a reason. Because with the human element involved it is impossible.

>> No.18039343

Midwits really think this is a profound argument. Please kys.

>> No.18039348

>The iPhone argument
Holy shit lmao. The Soviet Union might've been shit but at least they could house their populations. Capitalists seethe

>> No.18039350

Because they have no jobs and have a lot of free time

>> No.18039351


The phone was assembled in part by the worker, so was the car (which is created mostly through automation, but that's another problem, though interwoven)

Do you think there will be no innovations post-capitalism?

>> No.18039359

Iphone Venezuela 100 million human nature

>> No.18039360

>left, right, left, right, left, right
Its all so tiresome

>> No.18039363

In the West, marxism is not the default political opinion, except inr are cases for tankies. To be converted into it, you have to engage with ideas from philosophers like Marx and even identity shit like Judith Butler is hard to read.
So therefore communists and Marxists tend to be more well read, where as the usual conservative doesn't read jackshit, but watches fox news and prays. Zoomer neo cons just meme about being a catholic or whatever, and watch small brain youtubers who vomits opinions to them daily.
You can say what you want, but rarely do these modern conservatives read political philosophy or anything else. That's why the alt right is succesful in converting zoomers on youtube, it's an ideology spread through memes, where marxism has been spread through big ass volumes like "Das Kapital" for the last 200 or so years.
Also marxism provides a good basic outlook on life, given as everyone today agree that money makes the world go round, but then their train of thought stops and marxists correctly say "Well, all this shit is whack, because capitalists have ruined the economy and politics for 200 years now."
Also the only thing stopping a Nazi from becoming class conscious, is the figure of the Jew. If they realized that the "jew" is really corporatism and capitalism, they would be able to create a coherent world view, but they can't because they begin with the figure of the Jew, and then work backwards to create a narrative around that figure.
All small brains can go to the early life section, and feel like they discovered something and then dismiss it, but they're doing exactly the same as the SJW retards who dismiss everything a white male says. Same shit, different small brains.

>> No.18039366

Why would there need to be? Most issues are solved already in that scenario

>> No.18039367
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>> No.18039371

Why don't leftists just give their own money and stuff to poor people, why do they insist on waiting for the government to do it for them, show some initiative guys!

>> No.18039377

It literally is.
>muh freedom
>muh all identities valid
>just buy product and be consumer, then you can do whatever

Right wing liberals created this shit through markets, this is just the new breed of consumers in the capitalist machine.

>inb4 "capitalism is not right wing!"

>> No.18039383


What are you on about?

You think we have reached peak innovation?

>> No.18039385

This is why left right division is retarded

>> No.18039391

Neolib fags aren't right wing

>> No.18039402

Almost everyone I know who calls themselves a leftist routinely gives money and food to the homeless, or works at shelters and stuff. Have you ever tried talking to people who call themselves one instead of basing your opinion on some Twitter nobody that spends all day shouting about normalizing things?

>> No.18039406

This, if you can map your world view on less than 4 dimensions you most certainly have it wrong

>> No.18039412

They're economically right wing. Whatever else is symbolic peepoo, meant to entertain the masses and outrage conservatives to shout about "muh bathrooms!", while big Daddy Trump and his buddies pocket all the cash.
Neoliberals are capitalists as well, no fucking doubt about it. And they certainly aren't marxists criticizing the commodity form.

>> No.18039415

The homeless need to be detained and weened off of drugs, not given charity.

>> No.18039420
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If there is merit to the ideology (and the individual in question truly understands it), it should be no grand challenge to simplify its core aspects, even into meme-format should you want to. Yet each and every time someone online attempts to argue for the merits of Marxism, they fail to succinctly elaborate on it, needing to first preface even their image macros with walls of text. Why is this? Do online marxists not understand the ideology? Is obscurantism a core part of it, inherited from Hegel? Is it a question of belief and faith, untranslatable into brief explanations and jokes?
"Right wing" memes work because they are simple and easily understood, with key tenets recognizable even to simpletons. Why do leftists continuously fail at replicating this?

>> No.18039425

>and it's also within the bounds of approved discussion. Nobody gets cancelled for having communist leanings. It no longer challenges power and is wholly subsumed by the liberal machine.

This! Commie books are everywhere meanwhile you can’t find any fundamental Islamic books. They’re consider “extremist books” just like commie books was considered ideological virus when the Soviet was the shit. Commie books are distracting people from the ideology that’s now threat to the west. Islamic teachings.

>> No.18039426

>anecdotal story about public gestures like tossing crumbs to hobos
No, give them the keys to your apartment and let them use your credit cards.

>> No.18039427

We were talking about social attitudes. Of course capitalism can promote/foster the mental illness in the OP but it can also crush minorities when it's profitable.

>> No.18039428

>They're economically right wing
Again literally meaningless, I agree more with the average socialist than neolibfag yet I’m being lumped in with them as “right wing”, more proof of why L-R is a retarded division.

>> No.18039431

And then what? The vast majority of the chronically homeless are disordered. At least outside of shitholes like LA.
They have very little intention or will to become a part of society. Their substance dependence is yet another symptom of their problems, removing it will do nothing to rectify the underlying issues.

>> No.18039447

Id ask if Francis Fukuyama wrote this post but even Fukuyama realized this was retarded and let the idea go.

>> No.18039460

If they don't reform then jail them or push them outside the city

>> No.18039466

Ah, I see, so you are not returning an actual argument against the things we have being possible with capitalism. A proper rebuttal would have been that Marx saw Capitalism as necessary, but as a means to an end. I am anti-Marx, but at least I read his shit.

>at least they could house their populations
Most homeless in the United States are homeless by choice or due to rampant drug abuse which was not near the level we have now as it was before the 1970s. The homes many Communists lived in when I was in St Petersburg were shitholes in comparison to even hostels in the United States.
And the worker is paid with capital, the car is designed to make capital, innovation and work are both motivated by capital. People are assholes, and will not work solely for a greater good. The idea of such a luxury of an iPhone or Automobile was made directly possible because of capitalism.
>no innovations post-capitalism
Probably not, because we'll all be poor or dead. Eventually we will get tired of using candles to light our homes, though, so we'll likely reinvent electricity.
>"capitalism is not right wing!"
Capitalism has no wing. It is compatible with both left and right wing ideologies.

Tell you what, I'll compromise with you. I'll let you bleed in your communism to my country so long as we can eliminate the Blacks, Jews, Asians, Germanics, Italians, Slavs, Scandis, Romanis, and indigenous peoples - leaving only the world for Anglo Saxons.

>> No.18039472

Yes I’m not writing up a paragraph trying to explain any complex ideas to some retard who thinks muh iphone is an argument against Marxism.

>> No.18039473
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>> No.18039476

This is why marxism is for intellectuals, you faggots are afraid of reading.

Read the "Theses on Feuerbach" it's around 2 pages long and is a draft to the Das Kapital, or some of its points.
Even a small brain like you should be able to digest 2 pages, in the format it's written.
And right wingers are like you say, anti-intellectual in general, because their ideas are simple and communicated simply. They don't want a big Brian academic to come in and question their moral statements, they just want to coom to a romanticized past and whine about "muh degenerates".

>> No.18039484

All unironically valid arguments, but they make leftoids seethe so all they can do is repeat them in a mocking voice like a literal 8 year old

>> No.18039488

>in that scenario

So this is the reading comprehension power of leftists? Remarkable

>> No.18039491

>They don't want a big Brian academic
>larping as an intellectual
>can’t even spell brain correctly

>> No.18039493

I agree, American left - right division is retarded and I hate how it's been exported.
In USA there is capitalism lite or capitalism, and only fractions of radicals who blow up sometimes.
However the fault lies in thinking a cuck like Joe fucking Biden is working with "the radical left", Americans have been brainwashed by insane TV programs for 60 - 70 years now.
Indeed, capitalism can serve whatever ideology you want, except marxism, so that's why we need marxism to get rid of its shit stain upon the world.

>> No.18039497
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And this is the other thing. Instead of being capable of formulating your own arguments, you always fall back to
>read Marx
>read X
>read Y
As if you either had not read them yourselves or failed thoroughly to understand their contents, thus being unable to even paraphrase the core arguments. Time after time, people like you showcase yourself to be nothing but posturing midwits at best.

Read Böhm-Bawerk

>> No.18039501

I'm phone posting, faggot

>> No.18039503

Then how does it appeal to the working class? Largelt non intellectuals. They just have to take their smarter masters word for it?

>> No.18039505

Right wing conservatives are anti-intellectual because reading is the process of letting another person into your mind and they feel as if that's an invasion of their privacy and individualism. It's all about the inflated sense of self and aversion of ego death. Which, is ironic, because they are the same people who listen to constant propaganda, but that propaganda is so easy to consume they don't realize it's the same process as reading.

>> No.18039510
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Also, I have to add: You're so delightfully stereotypically showing the leftists' innate incapability of understanding the right. Such an amazing example of the typical pseudointellectual leftist, just tell us you're a NEET as well and you're the perfect specimen.

>> No.18039517

>and you have been completely unable to
>…reach me
Cuz you’re not listening

>I'm right wing
Obviously. The rest of your post is misunderstanding and moith-vomit.

>> No.18039525


What does it matter if I say "abolish the commodity form", it's pointless because I would have to spend 30 - 60 minutes explaining the ideas, and along the way you will dismiss everything I say. It's pointless to sum up a whole political philosophy, except for some slogans like "seize the means of production."
You can't even read 2 FUCKING PAGES, on the fucking literature board. This is why right wingers are dumb fucks, they want to be spoonfed opinions over the internet, because their zoom zoom brains have been destroyed by instant gratification from the internet.

Read Theses on Feuerbach, it takes literally 5 minutes to do so. I'll even provide a link for you, lazy mongrel.

>> No.18039526


The worker is *underpaid*. Normal people can't afford to live on their own. Minimum wage was enacted specifically to make sure every American could live well

What are we going to do about automation without some form of communal society? Without social aid?

There will be millions displaced and starving (which will kill the "people starve because communism" arguement FOR capitalism

There innovations before capitalism and there will be after, especially considering how far technology has progressed. Don't be dim

>> No.18039533

Earlier in the thread Marxoids were arguing against it only appealing to petit bourgeois intellectuals now they’re just admitting it.

>> No.18039538

That is the biggest problem of marxism today, it's become diluted by fucking identity retards, and class consciousness has been pushed away. The average worker doesn't read big books, which is why Marx tried to write small pamphlets and other small things, to distribute to the masses.

>> No.18039546
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If I wanted a list of marxist writings to read right now, I'd just look for them online. I'm attempting to engage what I assume to be a human being in discussion, not to receive preaching by a pseud ideologue incapable of seeing the world outside of stark divisions of us vs them.
Too bad you are a complete stereotype.

>> No.18039547


>> No.18039549

The intenet has plenty of fucking places to post your small bite propaganda... and literacy has never been higher. Smells of cope

>> No.18039551

>What does it matter if I say "abolish the commodity form", it's pointless because I would have to spend 30 - 60 minutes explaining the ideas, and
Yeah I’m so sure you can explain for 60 minutes the intricacies of the commodity and why the Soviet Union didn’t abolish it and you totally didn’t get that from some meme page like 90% of the Marxists I talk to.

>> No.18039552

>Indeed, capitalism can serve whatever ideology you want, except marxism
That's why NYT runs Marx was Right headlines and Barnes and Nobles has the Communist Manifesto stacked alongside Chomsky and other books for edgy teens.

I'll wait for the Himmler or Qutb was Right headlines from ruling class organs.

>> No.18039564

So freedom is bad now?
Nobody in this thread has mentioned Jews

>> No.18039573


>> No.18039579

But Marxism doesn't necessarily oppose the mental illness in the OP either

>> No.18039581

How the fuck do you think you'll even spread marxism if this is the attitude you take? You've just stuck your nose up your own ass so far you no longer see the real world. You care more about looking smart than you do about teaching people about the ideas. Are you really that insecure?

>> No.18039584

Okay, pick something coherent to argue about instead of the old "muh marxists are dumb :("
Do you agree, that a key feature of right wing ideology, especially conservatism, is anti - intellectualism. They appeal to a person's sense of honor and decency (emotions) over their rationality?
Also, yes capitalism has co-opted communism and whatever else, what do you expect? It's an all eating behemoth, and capitalists will sell us the robe we hang them with. Nothing new here.

>> No.18039587

The vast majority of modern iterations and ideals of "freedom" are misguided and ambiguous ideological trite bullshit and you know it. Just by the way you phrased it.

>> No.18039596

Sorry wrong thread. I meant it doesn't necessarily oppose degeneracy.

>> No.18039600

>capitalists will sell communist trannies the rope they hang themselves with
I corrected your post to make it correspond with reality.

>> No.18039604

You faggots ask "why are marxism followed by intellectuals" and I replied "because it requires reading." Now I get 10 replies saying how reading 2 pages is to much for them.
I don't know what to say anymore, you can go anywhere and see starter kits, or even go on youtube and search "Marx reloaded" to see an hour documentary on modern marxism if you want. It's all there. You just want someone to digest it and spoonfeed it to you, which I'm not doing. If you genuinely want to know more then read, but if you're just here to argue and dismiss everything I say, then good luck. I'm making a toast and going to vacuum my apartment.

>> No.18039614

>Do you agree, that a key feature of right wing ideology, especially conservatism, is anti - intellectualism. They appeal to a person's sense of honor and decency (emotions) over their rationality?
Lefty ideologies do the exact same thing. Just look at all the moralizing about how evil capitalism is, because despite pretending to be “scientific” it’s very obvious that was a backwards cope after the 1848 revolutions failed(and this isn’t some “rightoid misinterpretation”, even Debord said this). Now I don’t actually think that it’s wrong, I just wish you guys would stop pretending to be detatched non moralist intellectuals, this guy is a perfect example: >>18036771

>> No.18039619

>retard who thinks muh iphone is an argument against Marxism.
It is supplemental to my main point that all the finer things we enjoy are possible because of capitalism. Would you rather have exploited subhuman slave labor making cheap affordable products, or would you rather have "non exploited workers in an absolutely perfect communist world" where you can't even get the materials to make one?
They have short things in their manifesto because workers under capitalism have little time to read it, one could argue. The other is that workers are retarded, and the people that write it are uninspiring.
>Always fall back to read X Y Z
>Read B
How is the rest of my post misunderstanding and mouth vomit? Do elaborate, or are you going to just try to talk down on me, a worker, for having a different opinion?
>the worker is underpaid
>Normal peopel can't afford to live on their own
>Minimum wage was enacted to make sure every American would live well
The worker is not under paid, the worker is paid what they think they are worth. If you just flip burgers and stock shelves for a living you do not deserve to make more than what you agree to receive. You want to make more money then learn a trade or a skill and make yourself marketable, or are you saying the average worker is too stupid to be able to do so?
>automation without some form of communal society
Automation still requires machinery to be built, programmed, maintained, and still requires investments to improve them. Things will not become stagnant with automation like you seem to believe
>millions displaced and starving
What, because of automation? Think a bit bigger and stop playing like everyone is a victim. People will not starve because of automation. There might be bread lines again like we had in the Great Depression, but the difference is we were able to bounce right back from it. We still exist as capitalists today. Can you say the same about Communism?
>innovations before capitalism and there will be after
I think you misunderstand my point. Industrialization, and the biggest most significant inventions Mankind has ever seen were done during the industrial age all the way up to the present. Industrialization, combined with capitalism, is a breeding ground for innovation.

>> No.18039656
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>They appeal to a person's sense of honor and decency
Very pro-social aspects of man that strengthen the community. I fail to see the fault in this. A decent, honorable man can be trusted.
On the other hand, someone lacking both qualities is one I'd rather line up against a wall.
>They appeal to (emotions) over their rationality?
All ideologies ultimately do. What else would motivate you in the end? It's these emotions and profoundly irrational values that ideologies are all built on. Just because the right in general holds values that leftists don't, doesn't mean they're in some way anti-intellectual.
Or are you sincerely suggesting that leftists somehow do not function based on emotions? That they're some sort of P-zombies with non-human brains?

>> No.18039659

>believes capitalism breeds innovation in a world without flying cars, mars bases, good AI, warp drives, or literally anything else
Kill me, please.

>> No.18039660

Yeah I see you point, but marxism as a view doesn't appeal to morals, its a method of analyzing history and society through economics and the ownership of the means of production. You will never get anything done politically without making people passionate about change, but right wingers generally appeal mostly to emotions and morality. Marxism and offshoots have academic uses, and critical theory is also an offshoot of marxism. It's a way of analyzing the world and critiquing society, which lends itself to intellectualism because that's what academics do.
That faggots misuse this is one thing, but the post you linked isn't really that off. Many right wingers base their views on some boogeyman figure to blame everything bad on. The same did the Soviets and that's also part of why the revolution failed. I'm not even a tankie, nor a big fan of Lenin either, except the tzar wasn't a good guy either.

>> No.18039672

>lets not argue about muh left dumb but hear me out lets argue about why muh right dumb

>> No.18039677

Is it not the very much capitalistic SpaceX that is right now outperforming the corrupt and ineffective NASA? Driving the first real innovations in the field in quite a while?

>> No.18039683

>muh decent man
>muh logic bad
The ancient Greeks would probably call you feminine, seeing as thinking and rationality was a masculine trait.
Today rationality and thinking is just a sign of intellectualism, which you admit right wingers aren't. Big shame you have to use your feelings to line people up against a wall, because you can't handle being told to read 2 pages.

>> No.18039685

Go back, brainlet

>> No.18039687
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how can you consider yourself as an intelectual if you believe in some 5 year old fairy tale like communism?

>> No.18039700


Your automation arguement doesn't hold water. An obvious example is the big-box retail cashier. In the past it was 1 cash register = 1 employee

Now 2 cashiers maintain 20 self-checkout registers. There are tons more examples of workers displaced by robots

>bounce back from great depression
With the help of social aid

>> No.18039701

All apologists can stop posting now because this guy just summed up your stance and everything that backs it.
Launching a car into space isn't an innovation.

>> No.18039708

NASA only existed as a show of power against the USSR. Of course the budget and efficacy of NASA has plummeted since the end of the cold war. One dude with a shitload of money trying to respark hope into the masses so he can mine the moon and mars isn't the same thing as having properly funded NASA for the past 40 years. That hasn't happened. Capital doesn't dream outside of it's own confines. The future of the past is dead and capital killed it. It's not profitable to explore new things and even if it was, it would upset the norm so much that it would again not be profitable.

>> No.18039715

What, you think if the world were communist that we would have flying cars, mars bases, good AI< warp drives, or anything else? You already think workers are stupid, which are the majority of drivers on the road today. You really trust the average person with a flying car? A Mars Base is in the works already. AI exists but do you really want AI to be too good? I don't. I Guess you do want automation. Warp drives are science fiction, and always will be
Regardless, I get your point, but your point is wrong. I am talking less about the applications of a mobile phone, and rather the fact that we have the knowledge of the world, the instant communication with the world, at our fingertips and you are browsing /lit/ yet are still too retarded to have reading comprehension and understand a big picture.

>> No.18039718


> You want to make more money then learn a trade or a skill and make yourself marketable, or are you saying the average worker is too stupid to be able to do so

Yes, many people do not have the intelligence to do much beyond stocking shelves or flipping burgers. Do these people deserve to perish or live in squalor? As I already stated, minimum wage was meant to give every American a decent living

You want your shelves stocked and burgers flipped, yet you don't think these people should love comfortably

People with your mentality are diseased

>> No.18039722

>Launching a car into space isn't an innovation.
Reliably re-usable rocket engines are.

>isn't the same thing as having properly funded NASA for the past 40 years.
NASA is funded properly, but it costs multiple times more for them to produce something over SpaceX, because they are not in any way open to the markets, or capitalistic in their functions.

>> No.18039724

>This is why right wingers are dumb fucks, they want to be spoonfed opinions over the internet
Yes, we're dumb fucks because we refuse to take bullshit at face value even if it is labelled intellectual bullshit.

>> No.18039727


>> No.18039731

State mandated minimum wage is a fucking meme

>> No.18039732

>but marxism as a view doesn't appeal to morals, its a method of analyzing history and society through economics and the ownership of the means of production
Yes I know you guys claim that and I just said it’s wrong. It’s very obviously moralism with a coat of “science”. Exactly like I said in the first post, there’s a reason Marx only wrote Capital after the 1848 revolutions failed. He came in trying to prove that capitalism will fail(which I don’t disagree with desu) and that communism will come scientifically, he obviously didn’t reach communism through analysis.

>> No.18039735

>Which, is ironic, because they are the same people who listen to constant propaganda, but that propaganda is so easy to consume they don't realize it's the same process as reading.

It is ironic that you limit the scope of this remark.

>> No.18039741

>my views good
>views in book scary, grog no read

>> No.18039744


>go back to l-le reddit

And they say the left is an echo-chamber

>> No.18039749

Every right wing take I see on here is taking bullshit at face value, what the fuck are you talking about
>Black people are destroying this country! Uh, right, I switched off /pol/, uh... books for this?
>Why are black people destroying the country?
>Because they're smelly, fucking libs
I'm not strawmanning. Those are the arguments I see on this board. Even if I don't agree with them I'd respect them a little more if they provided evidence.

>> No.18039755

And they are right. I only want to talk to 4chin leftists, not plebbit retards.

>> No.18039763


>still using reddit arguement
>defends it again in reply

I'm embarrassed for you

>> No.18039769
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All volition is based on emotional drives, or at the very least emotions are intrinsically linked to those drives, occuring in sync. If you fail to recognize this in yourself, you might be under 20 or suffering from alexithymia. Even the drive to seek eudaimonia is emotional in its source.
>muh decent man
Yes. Concrete reality should be the basis for any political ideology. If you fail to even recognize the value of interpersonal relationships, any ideology you push is almost certainly doomed to fail.
>muh logic bad
Logic ultimately impotent at making absolute sense of reality, as the extent of what rationality can certainly say is that something exists because qualia exists. You will take an irrational leap of faith somewhere based on your emotions and values and upon that you will rationally construct ideologies and belief systems.
Just because you don't share core values with rightists doesn't mean they are anti-intellectual.

>> No.18039770
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>how do I make him look like a dork, he said the truth.... oh that's right, I will try to deny his argument making fun at his reaction because I have nothing else..

>> No.18039771

Op let me give you the academic answer.
1st >>18036393
2nd There is a resurgence of the thought, with authors such as Jodi Dean & Christian Fuchs doing re readings of Marx in specific in the age of the internet. The Negri book is also really good
3rd Most people who are leftists need to be voracious readers as the debate is constant and never ending, critical thinking as won wether you like it or not, and it is the main form of doing political philosophy. All the Frankfurt School, Gramsci, Laclau, Zizek, Butler, Foucault, Derrida. They are all critical thinkers that have come off of at least one or two branches out of the Marxist era of philosophy; either from Hegelian Dialectics to Linguistics.
4th There was also a moment after the reagen Era of a rereading of what went wrong with the 60s-70s movement and why the 80s-90s failed and why both of them the fault is either capitalism, or misreadings of Marx.

So in reality is is just the fact that it is contrversial, thus creating supressio, thus cerating excess production of Marxist thought. Also; there was never a writter that disproved Marx on the grand scheme, most people point flaws but no one ever read everything and said why it wasn't true, maybe because Marx in specific was right about a good deal of things.

Know, about left as a whole... well that is too broad of an umbrella term to explain why.

>> No.18039774


>> No.18039776

>NASA is funded properly, but it costs multiple times more for them to produce something over SpaceX, because they are not in any way open to the markets, or capitalistic in their functions.
This is just flat out retarded and keeps both programs in a vacuum in order for your point to make any semblance of sense. You lack any sort of historical context. What the actual fuck.
How do people actually think like this? Are you showing off to your highschool economics teacher when you spout bullshit like this without thinking? Did this get you a B+ from coach?

>> No.18039778

If you’re alright with all those little niche things, that’s fine I guess. But wanting people shot for influencing the thoughts of children? There’s a lot of things I would shelter from children, but if one of yours turned out homosexual, it isn’t just something they caught like a virus, it just is. And you sound like the sort who would disown them for not being a carbon copy of yourself. All your hell talk
Support direct democracy and help defeat the elites

>> No.18039783

He did though, as it builds upon Hegel's idea of the spirit gradually realizing itself through history.
If you're a morslist, you're not a scientific marxist. End of story. Whatever you see online and what people do, isn't what the ideology is about, the ideology is in his books and a fuck ton of books has continued marxism and post marxism or what it's called.
This requires reading, and not just looking at anti sjw videos on YouTube, which is how most people end up in the alt right.
You can find many retards online who argue about stupid shit, and who hasn't read Marx, but that's nothing to do with political philosophy. I wouldn't say Bertrand Russell is a fucking brainlet, because someone who claims to be his student is a moron. I would read his texts, understand his ideas and then call him a retard if I can refute it by reading another theorist who argues against him.
Right wingers usually argue against college undergrads who are retarded, never the actual thinker himself.

>> No.18039785

>1 cash register = 1 employee
While I agree that big corporations should definitely not go unchecked, you are still missing a big point here. 2 cashiers are 20 self checkout registers. But, how many people does it take to make those registers, how many people maintain the registers, how many people did it take to design the software, to figure out the best way to make it work for everyone? There is more to it than just loss of cashier jobs, though I still go to a cashier because I do not like doing work for someone else without pay.

You seem to think I am some hard core libertarian, which I am not. I believe things should be not only cyclical, but a fine mix of everything.
>help of social aid
In the form of a war. And Lend-Lease.
>Launching a car into space isn't an innovation.
Reusable rockets, reusable ships entirely, efficiency, and so forth are innovations. Launching a car into space is just for fun.
The future of the past is not dead because capital killed it. It is dead because we are going through easy times. We have reached end-game. There is no more land to explore, no reason to see all the depths of the deep. All we have left to explore is space. Comparatively, you could say that going to the moon is like traversing across the Atlantic in the middle ages. Eventually we will get to a point where space travel is feasible in about 600 years if history repeats itself.

>> No.18039787

>minimum wage was meant to give every American a decent living
And it fails at that, because it doesn't counteract inflation and costs on the employer's part. You should burn down the Fed before you even think about mandating minimum wages like that.
There's an argument to be made for minimum wages being negotiated between unions and employers Nordic style, but that's unlikely to work in the alienated zero social trust shithole that is modern day US.

>> No.18039788

Go back, cancerous faggot

>> No.18039803


>> No.18039806

>concrete reality
Kind of like how Marx analyzed economics and politics to reach his conclusions, instead of ranting about "muh honor, muh morals and muh religion"?

>> No.18039811
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Analysis does not reality make. Pseudoscience is not science.

>> No.18039817

>no reason to explore the deep
>but we should explore space
What the fuck is the basis of your value system. What the actual fuck anon. You want a profit motive for exploration? Do you not see that there are goals and motivations beyond money? Like, that humans are emotional beings that experience life outside monetary gain?

>> No.18039822

This anon explains it in the most neutral way possible, I hope people ITT read this and actually understand it.

>> No.18039827

>Do these people deserve to perish or live in squalor
Those jobs are meant for high school kids just entering the work force. That was the entire design of the burger flipping job by the very men that founded fast food. The solution to our problem is not minimum wage to encourage grown adults into just working a low skill job and encourage no advancement of the individual.

You don't care about the workers, you are poisoned to believe that letting them be content is just a fine way to live, rather than fix our broken education system, fix our colleges and universities(Buy not letting the government be too involved, but require any educational facility to be non-profit and have immense checks and balances. But get rid of student loans and the ridiculous prices they charge). You fix our health problem by requiring people to be healthy, or helping them to be so as much as possible. Fat tax, smoking tax, drinking tax, tax breaks for exercise and eating healthy. To pay for a universal health care system.

All the "solutions" that Marx provides are more bandages to a society to keep us all enslaved to the elite, no different than be-all end-all capitalism.

>> No.18039829

But he did make moral conclusions?

>> No.18039831

>Do you not see that there are goals and motivations beyond money?
Mankind has shown itself to be primarily and most efficiently motivated by personal gain time and again. Your personal feelings on the wonders of exploration will not form a powerful conglomerate capable of sending mankind into the depths of space. Lust for profit and wealth on the other hand will.
t. different anon

>> No.18039840


I'm not inherently against the idea of automation. I realize it takes workers to create software, repair machines, etc. What do we do with the worker that can't be taught to code, or the worker who is not retirement age but still too old and feeble to be working a labor intensive job?

I guess this is more of an argument for UBI, but that is a step in the right direction

>> No.18039845

>He did though, as it builds upon Hegel's idea of the spirit gradually realizing itself through history.
Yes which he only did(adapted it to communism)after reading Condition of the Working Class, thinking there’s absolutely no moralist sentiment in that book means you’ve never read it.
>If you're a morslist, you're not a scientific marxist. End of story.
Again you’re just ignoring my actual post and then rambling about the alt right.

>> No.18039848

The minimum-wage law was written to give every American a good living

The law doesn't say "a little money for hugh school burger flippers" you absolute retard

Do you really think there is a communist who doesn't want to fix our broken education system?

>> No.18039849

You are presupposing a value system when you put efficiency as a priority when you then subsequently try to justify that position in an argument about the content of your presupposition. Jesus fucking christ you retard.

>> No.18039851
File: 20 KB, 804x743, 161785182260.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Money is the main resource of humanity to make things happen. Now if you can, please explain everyone here what can you actually do without money.

>> No.18039855

Could I have that same in English?

>> No.18039860

It's intent doesn't make it work

>> No.18039874

No, you again misunderstand my entire point. I think the poisoning of our youth is not that they turn them into homosexuals, but that they have things like drag queens reading to pre school children and introducing sexuality to their lives early on rather than letting parents introduce it to their children as needed. That being said, no one has a right to tell me how to raise my kids just as I have no right to tell you. If you want to raise your kid to a drag queen reading day then go right on ahead. I do not dare think to make such a thing illegal - but I will fight against it if my taxes are paying for it in a public school. Privately? Go for it, I don't care.

If my son turns out to be a homosexual, I won't care. I will be happy so long as it isn't the main point of his personality and identity. I am a staunch individualist.
>basis of your value system
My value is what ever I want it to be. I understand others have different values. I do not want to make anyone try to think the same way as me, but I do enjoy discussing different ideas.

Profit has always been the motive for exploration, be it profit in a monetary sense, egotistical sense, or satisfying curiosity - it is always in the name of some form of profit. Even an emotional satisfaction is a form of profit.

There is no reason to explore the unexplored ocean, because it is vastly more difficult than going to the moon or to mars. If people want to, let them, but I think it is a waste of time to do so.

>> No.18039875


Have you asked yourself *why* it doesn't work?

>> No.18039879

We are talking about what is 'best' for humans and whether profit motive is really the best thing when the human condition is made up of many things besides profit motive.

When you responded, you already defined your values when you said that the way you judge humanity was by efficiency. From that point on, your points become a circular argument and there's no point in acknowledging the rest of your post. You are talking past the point that there is more to life besides efficiency/markets/profit.

>> No.18039884

>that the way you judge humanity was by efficiency.

>> No.18039887

>give every American a good living
You mean try to give every burger flipper a living?
>the law doesn't say
I am not talking about the law, I am talking about the entire purpose of a job that minimum wage applies to. Maybe if you'd think a little bit more and stop being so angry you would understand things a bit better.
>a communist who doesn't want to fix our broken education system
I do not know anyone who doesn't want to fix our broken education system. All I am doing is providing you a proper answer, and a proper fix for a lot of the problems going on in our world today. Minimum wage is just a band-aid.

>> No.18039889

>Even an emotional satisfaction is a form of profit.
Fuck you. Fuck your bullshit rhetorical tricks. Fuck you right in the ass. Fuck you so hard your anus bleeds and your mother cries. What the fuck is the point. Why would you type all this out if it was just some sort of masturbatory bullshit to hear yourself type. Fuck off. Go be gay with your dad.

>> No.18039896

Yes because it's a government price control that only serves to worsen the labour market. Luckily, the US minimum wage is low so they actually have relatively high wages, real wage growth and a relatively low full employment threshold.

>> No.18039898

Marxism is somewhat defensible, though quite a lot of it is honestly retarded.

Communism is a fucking laughable joke though, none of them can even explain how communism is supposed to work. If someone believes in something they literally cannot even describe inevitably developing their brain is just a pile of shit

>> No.18039899

Literally the first sentence of your post presupposes the entire value system and foundation for your subsequent argument as well as completely shrugs off all other factors and aspects mentioned in other posts.
>Mankind has shown itself to be primarily and most efficiently motivated by personal gain time and again.
And I swear to god if you pull some "but I didn't explicitly say" bullshit I'm going to start typing in all caps because you can't understand context.

>> No.18039901

Thats just not true though. Many of the best read people I know aren't leftists and the people who are the worst read are leftists -- and everything in between. One thing that is consistent is that leftists read a lot of leftist theory and a few token kinds of novels, but they are not well read in a wide variety of literature. Non-leftists who read a lot are consistently better read in this way.

>> No.18039908


The purpose of the job has changed since displaced workers have to work these jobs to sustain

Go to a fast-food restaurant and look how many people look 40+.

>> No.18039912

Why are you assuming my intentions entirely on your own, constructing strawmen?
Do write in all-caps, since at least then you will make it obvious how ridiculous you are.

>> No.18039925

You are really focused on fast food.
It's better than farming, mining or working in a factory.

>> No.18039935

Words represent meanings and meanings are developed from a broader contextual understanding. If I were to only acknowledge the fact that you are two lines of text it would lead to the absurd you absolute fucking retard. You are more than two lines of text. You have lived an entire life full of experiences that have lead to your fucking retarded ideas stolen from an introductory economics class. You are not objective. You are not a floating idea. You literally are the straw man. It can't be helped. It is inherent to this medium of communication you retard.

>> No.18039949

> It can't be helped.
Of course it can. Just stop making stupid assumptions and you would not have to upset yourself like this.
Next time you could try asking questions and for elaboration so you're capable of constructing posts that are not outright strawmen. Of course, that is, if you're interested in something else than preaching to a crowd.

>> No.18039959

Oh, why do you think I'm preaching to a crowd? I never mentioned preaching specifically or explicitly, stop making stupid assumptions and you would not look this retarded.

>> No.18039965

>stop making stupid assumptions and you would not look this retarded.
I don't mind at all. I'm entirely content with appearing a fool to someone making posts like yours. Your complete failure at communicating like a human gives me ample reason to just throw shit at you.

>> No.18039982

This is the internet. You can't actually throw shit at me. Were on computers. Ha! Stupid!

>> No.18039998

>rhetorical tricks
Wow you seem to be extremely upset over something so simple. Does thinking hurt you?
>displaced workers
Problem we have moreso right now is a population overload. That is being quelled by nature through intense faggotry and birth control, but the downside is the replacement of white folks.
>Go to a fast food restaurant
I haven't had fast food in 10 years, but I have a cousin that works in fast food and he looks stressed because he's a 40 year old fry cook who has no value to himself, his family, or society. He remains a cook because he can just go home and smoke pot and do drugs all day. He's also a supposed "intellectual marxist".

>> No.18040006


I used to be a miner. Pays a lot better than fast food

>> No.18040007

Commies are smart


>> No.18040014

>Communism is a fucking laughable joke though, none of them can even explain how communism is supposed to work.

>> No.18040016

Looks and sounds like John Oliver on TV. Nice. Will save and use against l*ftoids thank you

>> No.18040020

In the US? Farming pays well and is not at all laborious anymore. Machinery does all the work for us, and you get that sweet sweet government grant and Farm Aid benefits. If you are just a truck or tractor driver you only work in the spring and autumn anyway, and make enough to not work much during summer and pretty much not at all in the winter.
Not a skilled job, but a job that requires physical strength and endurance. You get paid pretty good being a miner. Anyone with a pair of lungs and muscle can do it.
Any idiot can do this, because it requires no thought. Just repetitive motion that you are trained to do. Also pays better than fast food.

People who do not go to mines or factories to work are people that have no desire to change their lives and are content. This is what the elite want, including Marxists.

>> No.18040022

>by nature
You mean (((nature)))

>> No.18040025

It's not thinking, it's the fact that you rephrase something to specifically fit your agenda and ideological imperatives and by doing so destroy the discourse of that particular subject, again because of your use of rhetorical tools. Your post was very upsetting, good job. I am mad, but only because you are a disingenuous bad faith faggot ass nigger.

>> No.18040028

No, Nature - being natural order of things and not some arbitrary "Mother Nature" pagan bullshit - being the natural laws of the land that we do not fully yet comprehend are doing this to us. (((Nature))) on the other hand is trying to exploit it, but do not fret. Their time will come.

>> No.18040041

>specifically fit your agenda and ideological imperatives
You seem like someone who is very passionate about something they do not understand. Why would you let a post from a Venezuelan Potato Farming forum upset you so deeply? I know you cannot think outside the box, and cannot understand metaphors or deeper thinking than the surface, but that is what we are here to discuss.

Instead of being mad, let me offer you a micro-controller made in China so you can hold something that thinks more than you do.

>> No.18040064

No. It was just that post and that phrasing in particular. This website is retarded, but your post brought that to a whole new level. Knowing you exist and that there are people who unironically think like you is very upsetting. I am seething and attempting to cope.

>> No.18040084

it's a top-down structural system that seeks to engender technocratic rule.

they like it because it promises them power and control.

>> No.18040088

As a leftist I have to agree with the observation that there's a lot of ignorance when it comes to understanding the other side, but that's because of the pseuds.
Also, based Nige poster

>> No.18040093

>The answer is simple OP; Right-wingers don’t have an internally consistent philosophical framework through which they can experience the world
Neither do leftists. There's a world of difference between post-WW2 Western Marxism and Soviet Marxism.
>This leads to bitter incelrage and desperately quoting Hayek who was refuted by reality itself.
Pray tell when and how.

>> No.18040116
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What, to compare profit to emotional satisfaction? You call it trickery, and a retard cannot trick. Here you are getting upset over someone with a differing opinion, rather than discuss your point and try to say why I am wrong and instead are frothing at the mouth.

>> No.18040128

What exaxtly do you think communism is? Its not rule of the czar or the old ruling class. It sure isnt rule of the businessmen. It definitely isn't democracy. Unless the people elect the right leaders, which happen to be marxists, which all happen to be members of the intelligensia.

>> No.18040133
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>10 posts later
>"now I wish to discuss the original issue at hand!"
fuk u

>> No.18040134

Based and Burnham-pilled

>> No.18040145
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You know, I really hate to spew the same thing everyone else does, but you will never be a woman. Seethe, tranny.

>> No.18040165
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Why would I want to ever be a woman?

>> No.18040179
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Interesting how the only time I can ever agree with a communist, and a communist can agree with me is that we both hate police. What is even more funny, is how communism cannot be enforced without some form of police, and a vast majority of policemen are working class.

>> No.18040183

The consistency of tone and talking points amongst pro capitalist posters across boards really makes me think

>> No.18040184

>voracious readers
oh im lauffin
more like voracious signalers and larpers. pathetic really

>> No.18040193

Communists hate bourgeois police the same way we hate the bourgeois state, that is we only hate their class character.

>> No.18040194

It's because they're lying

>> No.18040197

Capitalism is enforced through police just the same. I'm not sure why you can't make the connection.

>> No.18040226 [DELETED] 

Oh I make the connection easily. The disconnect is that communists expect that police will stop stomping niggers under their rule, while as a capitalist i don't hold that assumption at all under capitalism.

>> No.18040240

You are aware that police kill/beat way more 'white' people than 'black' people right?

>> No.18040242

Why assume he cant make the connection. Its clear communists have different expectations of the police from a capitalist.

>> No.18040247

Very cynical lack of imagination. Are you pleased with the world as it is?

>> No.18040252

That's because there's more white people than black people, retard

>> No.18040258

Is that true per capita?

>> No.18040259

You have to understand that when commies talk about abolishing the police what they mean is 'let commies create their own commie police force'.

>> No.18040265

What does the commie police force do?

>> No.18040275

Yeah I know. He said that police crush blacks as if they do it to them especially.

>> No.18040278

The general assumptions by libertarians and capitalists is that their ideology is a natural state, that it maximizes liberty, but in reality, it takes pretty much the same amount of totalitarianism, police force, surveillance to uphold itself.

>> No.18040288

kill kulaks and bourgies

>> No.18040291

Private police > state police

>> No.18040303

Well primarily they target 'anti-revolutionaries'(people who are not letting commies have as much tyrannical power as they want or who are simply not cheering on the commies as much as they should).

Once the commies have actually taken over though they will find they do in fact need to police crime and such for anything to function and then they will usually crack down in a quite draconian fashion.

>> No.18040308

Convice me you aren't posting in an air conditioned room in Haifa for shekels

>> No.18040311

>The general assumptions by libertarians and capitalists is that their ideology is a natural state
nice strawman
>but in reality, it takes pretty much the same amount of totalitarianism, police force, surveillance to uphold itself
yep, and? protecting women from rape requires a huge amount of "totalitarian" police force, but I assume you don't object to that?

>> No.18040316

While I understand your meaning and the way the term has come to mention the elite, police have to serve someone. They certainly will not serve the people.
I can make the connection, what I am saying is communist police would have to be more totalitarian. See: NGB. I am not a libertarian, but I am definitely a capitalist. I hate police, but I understand the necessity of them. Again, just because I dislike something does not mean I think it should be eradicated.
And what's more is they think that the American working men that are generally police now are communist, and the ones that are communist are capable enough of fighting against the 'blue collar red neck suburban and rural retards'.
Probably gauge butt plugs

>> No.18040323

Accusing someone of a strawmanning and then doing it yourself.

>> No.18040327

The question is really: Who should have the monopoly of violence?
>the white race
>the workers
Just fucking pick one.

>> No.18040335

>monopoly of violence
You forgot to include
>The government
>The rich(See above)
>The elite (See both above)
>Communist leaders(See all three)

>> No.18040338

22% of the worlds prisoners are Americans

>> No.18040344

white capitalists

>> No.18040347

And what percentage of that 22% are black? What percentage of those blacks are "targeted racial injustice" or just blacks acting black and reacting to white society as 'freed' men?

>> No.18040357

Capitalists aren't violent

>> No.18040358

That's irrelevant.

>> No.18040359

The white capitialist workers

>> No.18040367

Who cares

>> No.18040377

Tell that to the sheriff after a judgement has been signed.

>> No.18040412

if someone recommends you the communist manifesto they're probably a 15 year old twitter commie and should not be taken seriously

>> No.18040419

The book is actually assigned in undergrad a bizarre amount

>> No.18040442

I love that you have to be like

>Yes, I do in fact I know that that manga is crap, I've read enough of it myself to know of course

>> No.18040450

What classes assign it? I never got it in any lit, poly sci, or liberal arts class.

>> No.18040474

>What is it about Marxist's that always solicits such an infantile response to something they deem controversial to their own ideology?

Because it's so frequently true. Most people only know of Marx through propaganda, though I'd expect /lit/ posters to know better.

>> No.18040484

Marxism and dialectical materialism is not falsifiable so you can write about it endlessly because ultimately it isn't true.

>> No.18040492

This post only makes sense if you've only interacted with incredibly stupid leftists, which is understandable at this point in time given the media coverage they are given.

>> No.18040504

Right wing people seem to be sociopathic and they just project their sociopathic attitudes onto everything.
Liberals are just confused people who want to show off as good moral people but they don't care about understanding what's actually wrong with the world.
Anarchists/left-libertarians are the most compassionate people on the planet. They are really optimistic about good potential of human nature. They just want a society where no one dominates no one.
Marxists/commies are hypocrites. They are so caught up in their theory shenanigans they lose sight of actual reality. There's a reason most of them vacillate between right wing ideologies and Marxism.

>> No.18040508


>> No.18040515

I read it in an intro to history class

>> No.18040519

>Anarchists/left-libertarians are the most compassionate people on the planet.

>> No.18040523

>Anarchists/left-libertarians are the most compassionate people on the planet. They are really optimistic about good potential of human nature. They just want a society where no one dominates no one.
Being compassionate is not a virtue. Left-libertarians and anarchists - if they got a chance to implement their ideology - would greatly multiply human suffering by destroying families and indigenous communities

>> No.18040535

So is pointing out 22% of the worlds prisoners being American.

>> No.18040536

No marxist reccs it even as beginner material these days. Marx is mostly known for das kapital. But then again most modern leftists aren't anything like you think they are. They recommend Mumford, Fromm, Adorno, Horkheimer, Graeber, Nitzan/Bichler, Micheal Albert etc than actual Marx.

>> No.18040556

cope. Nitzan&Bichler brutally destroy Marx in their book so no Marxist would ever recommend them

>> No.18040560

this site is killing my brain
i dont know whats ironic or not anymore

>> No.18040572

Because pure marxists don't exist in modern world. That's why I said leftists. Tankies are extremely minority. Many of us recognise Marx was wrong about a lot of shit but that doesn't mean we have to discard everything he said.

>> No.18040616

Modern white leftists are irrelevant. All revolutionary movements are organized by PoCs around the world.

>> No.18040649

>discard everything he said
I'd discard everything that's pro communist. Fascism is even a better alternative to communism.

>> No.18040751

Why are we acting like your average communists has actually read Marx, or anything other than harry potter for that matter?

>> No.18040771

Just look at youtube. There are a ton of leftists making detailed videos about leftist stuff. Whereas rightists make meme videos.

>> No.18040781

>There are a ton of leftists making detailed videos about leftist stuff
And almost all of them STILL haven't read Marx.

>> No.18040856

Leftists typically only read communist literature, and never branch out. Right wingers, including fascists, tend to read across the board.

>> No.18040874

you'll also find that right wingers read leftist literature while leftists avoid right wing literature like the plague

>> No.18040971

Yeah, bro. That's definitely the reason why they are so many leftist books Debunking right wing bullshit. You fags have no idea what you're talking about.

>> No.18040979
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oh boy

>> No.18040991
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>debunking right wing bullshit
"Debunking" made up bullshit that you have only seen and a surface level understanding of, rather than directly quoting from the source trying to debunk.


>> No.18041012
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>rather than directly quoting from the source trying to debunk.
Yep, you're just talking out of your ass. It's obvious you don't read books written by modern leftist scholars.

>> No.18041051

I have not read from that author nor that book, no. What I have read, however, is just cherry picking buzz words from right wing ideology.

Most of the time, leftists end up making emotional appeals to everything, but have little to no logic. "Think of the people! They will starve!" Such is life. Fuck off.

>> No.18041079

>muh logic
Wow you're indeed a retard. Logic is just a tool. You can't decide whether an action is bad or good based on pure logic. You need a framework of standards to apply logic to draw inferences. It's not leftists fault they aren't outright psychopaths like you.

>> No.18041093

>You can't decide whether an action is bad or good based on pure logic
There is no such thing as good or bad, that is a fake idea. What is "good" is what will let you succeed and get ahead. What is "bad" is what will leave you in the dust. What getting ahead means and what in the dust means is entirely dependent on the individual.
>logic is just a tool
So are emotions. So are people. So is money.

>> No.18041108

Yep, projecting your sociopathic behavior like every rightoid. There's no arguing with literal ghouls like you. I hope you die soon.

>> No.18041114

wow. so much for the tolerant left.

>> No.18041120

We only tolerate humans. Not literal psychos like you.

>> No.18041132

i guess this confirms horseshoe theory... you guys are the nazis now, dehumanizing me

>> No.18041141

How am I a psycho for having a tenacious concept of reality, and not this bullshit everything can be happy world? I know what life is, I have been in war, I have been shot at. I have experienced humanity at its darkest, and at its strongest.

You, on the other hand, have never lived which is why you let your emotions guide you.

>> No.18041180

>? I know what life is, I have been in war, I have been shot at. I have experienced humanity at its darkest, and at its strongest.
Yep. That's why you don't want to reduce unnecessary suffering. Because you suffered through bullshit life and you really love your overlords and their fabricated structures that caused your suffering. Totally makes sense like every rightoid who larps about leading a miserable life despite being privileged whites of upper middle class.

>> No.18041259

Would you rather me speak completely out of ignorance? And I'm not the one bringing it up while trying to sound smart.

>> No.18041367

individualism doesn't exist as of now so there is nothing to be said about it

>> No.18041376

My life isn't miserable, and I never said I don't want to reduce unnecessary suffering, but I also am readily able to admit that suffering is a part of life. You, on the other hand, have some weird idea that life is some happy place when the right kind of government is installed. As if there won't be more suffering under Communism. We are living the most comfortable lives in the world right now, do you really want to ruin it if the only thing you care about is reducing suffering?

I would not say seeing combat was bullshit for me, it was eye opening and also quite fun. I do not care for 'overlords' or their fabricated structures. I did not and do not suffer, and it is dull of you to think such a thing.

I grew up poor, very poor. I was not a privileged white, I was a dirt poor white, our family could not afford a car so we rode a horse to school. Every day was school, and come home to work(Farm family). All it was, was work.

What do you know about work?

>> No.18041385

>white privilege
shut the fuck up your fucking american

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