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18030675 No.18030675 [Reply] [Original]

If Buddhists don’t believe that we possess souls, what is it that they believe reincarnates?

>> No.18030761

if youre able to find the answer to this question you become enlightened

>> No.18030811

>>18030675
huh birth is conditioned so you you just need this condition to get birth.
no need for a soul to have a birth. having a soul is not the condition for birth.

>> No.18030885

>>18030675
MU

>> No.18030904

>>18030675
A part of you is reincarnated every time you breed white man.

>> No.18030927

>>18030675
It's just a continuation of consciousness.

>> No.18030961

>>18030675
there is no 'you'. 'you' 'are' just a bunch of disparate 'things' or 'aggregates'. Who 'you' 'were' when you were born is not the same being as you are now, but 'you' still consider yourself to 'be' 'you' don't you? accordingly, who 'you' 'are' now is not the same being as the one you 'were' a thousand lifetimes ago or the one you will 'be' in another thousand lifetimes.
there is no 'you' got it? but there's (you)

>> No.18030989

>>18030675
>asking questions of retards
anon, you're not that stupid i know.

reminder buddhism is a brainlet philosophy that leads proud westerners to eternal damnation.

>> No.18031002

>>18030811
This is close. This is how Buddhists explain your phenomenal existence, and rebirth:

You are aware of the process of ageing and death, what is the condition of the process of aging and death? Birth.
So we are aware of the necessity of birth for ageing and death. What is the condition of birth? Becoming.
So we are aware of the necessity of becoming for birth. What is the condition of becoming? clinging.
We cling because we crave for something.
We crave because we have experienced a pleasant or unpleasant sensation.
We experience sensation because we have contact with the six sense bases (mind is included as sixth sense).
The six sense bases exist as mind-and-body, or because of mind-and-body
consciousness is the condition of mind-and-body
karma-formations are the condition of consciousness
Ignorance is the condition of karma-formations.

So your "soul" is pure ignorance. There is no individual, only a vortex of ignorance and its resulting temporal karma-formations.

>> No.18031017

>>18030811
>>18031002
>this is what Buddhists actually believe
Nonsensical

>> No.18031019

>>18031017
It's not a matter of belief, don't project Christian nonsense onto it.

>> No.18031033

>>18030675
It's like a flame being passed from one candle to the other.

>> No.18031043

>>18031019
>It's not a matter of belief
It’s obviously not true, so it is.
>don't project Christian nonsense onto it.
Not a Christian, absolutely rent free

>> No.18031050

>>18031043
>It’s obviously not true, so it is.
How is it obvious?

>> No.18031084

>>18030675
The easiest way to think about it is one candle burning down to the end, but its last act being to light a different candle. There is some carryover between candles given one lighting the other, but its not a substantive version of a soul. This is at least how it was explained to me regarding Nagarjuna and Mahayana, Theravada or other Buddhist philosophers may have a different take.

One of the interesting consequences of a lack of substantive self and continuation of being is that you are not the being who will be enlightened even as you do the work to become enlightened. It will be another being, even in reincarnation that is not you but another that is closer or farther from enlightenment because of you, but is not you.

>> No.18031104

>>18030675
It’s just upaya (deception). Buddhists are nihilistic atheist materialists

>> No.18031142

>>18031002
>>18030811
To tack onto this, it's actually not quite this simple. This is part of the doctrinal method for self-inquiry. There is more to this than is let on here, but it's complicated (I will say that it involves that ignorance and higher states of existence).

>> No.18031175

>>18030675
The doctrine of anatman, no-soul, derives from a rejection of the Hindu concept of atman. In hinduism, every sentient being has an atman, which is a facet of the universal consciousness, brahman. While buddhism rejects this idea, it holds to the principle that beyond the sense of self there is a higher reality. However, buddhism rejects the sense of self. The sense of self is an illusion and tied to the material/phenomenal world (Maya). When we die, the material world, its energies and atoms, continue their flux and reorganize into other entities. We die and our bodies get recycled into the earth. Life itself in buddhism is an illusion, we are "born, live and die" each moment according to the Buddha.

The principle which prompts reincarnation is the principle of causality, or karma. It is the investment of commitment to material reality, not a form of moral judgement or fate. Thus actions which commit to the material world--strong emotions of lust, greed, hate, and so on, as it were "re-energize" the material world and allow it to continue its illusion. Thus through acts of such cause and effect, the world continues itself in the shape of other conscious beings in an unbroken continuity until some sentient life discovers enlightenment and breaks the loop.

>> No.18031229

>>18031104
deception by... who?

>> No.18031254

>>18030761
this

>> No.18031283

>>18031229
the physical world deceives you, that's why meditation and learning detachment from pleasures is so important because ultimately "enlightenment" is having full control of your perception of the world and the ability to compartmentalize things like intrusive thoughts or distractions.

People forget being distracted is a choice, you choose to let specific things stray you away from peace. But usually it's due to conditioning from a young age

>> No.18031331

>>18031084
>its not your soul what survive, is another thing.
what ignorance and lack of imagination. soul is just a concept to explain that candle light other candle.

>> No.18031333

>>18030675
Buddha doesn't deny a self
The karma is stated what reincarnates. Identifying his own attributes and how they were born of his karma, he traced that karma back and was able to discern his past life times and the life times of his followers.

>> No.18031456

>>18031002
Ignorance is what conditions but something needs to be conditioned by it, there must be an ignorant. I doubt this was original buddhism.

>> No.18031476

buddhists are such weasley little liars dude

karma suddenly becomes the modern principle of causality when it becomes convenient
soul gets re-defined as something that can never be subject to change just so they can try to claim theres no soul
suffering gets defined as its commonly understood, but when thats convenient we decide to claim suffering purely means contingency in some abstract, amoral sense

imagine getting mogged by hinduism; just try to be a consistent self-help ideology because right now you hard line pali canon nerds are so inconsistent it makes western white women mindfulness buddhism seem superior

>> No.18031526

>>18031476
>imagine getting mogged by hinduism; just try to be a consistent self-help ideology because right now you hard line pali canon nerds are so inconsistent it makes western white women mindfulness buddhism seem superior
too bad hinduism is less consistent, since it fails to explain why brahman created suffering in the first place, by not giving people the knowledge of brahman from the beginning, and only some path to get this wisdom. I guess the poos are even more braindead than the buddhists.

>> No.18031536

>>18031476
>it makes western white women mindfulness buddhism seem superior
it is superior. karma means "what goes around comes around".

>> No.18031587

>>18031536
Karma means "willful intention". Karma is specifically your own doing.

>> No.18031730

>>18031526
What you said is only a problem in advaita vedanta but that is why it is crypto-buddhism, because it has the same problems and leads to crypto-dualism and crypto-atheism. There are many other different schools and traditional lines much more coherent.

>> No.18031739

>>18031536
>>18031526
excuse me anon, but i dont want an actual explanation of why i am wrong, i just want to feel superior for holding onto an incoherent half-formed misconception of buddhism. if i wanted an actual explanation, i would just read the thread.

>> No.18031758

>>18030675
orthodox buddhists do not believe in reincarnation as such. Same for Hindu Brahmin

>> No.18031790

>>18031104
>>18031283
>the physical world
>deceives you
this why buddhism is retard tier

we deceive ourselves dumbass. it may be correct to say "misperception."

>> No.18032086

>>18030961
l o l

>> No.18032108

>>18030675
This is the question that makes NPC brains spasm and seethe. The Western academic approach to anatta isn't as universal and concrete as they'd have you believe, and the interpretation of this word varies immensely. So some may still believe in a form of soul. The Dalai Lama, for instance, mentions the subtle body when asked about this question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ0CoQyIe7Y

>> No.18032320

>>18032108
>mentions the subtle body when asked about this question.
That Vajaryana and it's debunked by the buddha. It's not the Vinanna which goes from one body to another one

This sutta concerns a monk — Sāti, the Fisherman's Son — who refuses to heed the Buddha's care in treating all the elements of the process of wandering on from birth to birth as processes. Sāti states that, in his understanding of the Buddha's teachings, consciousness is the "what" that does the wandering on. His fellow monks and then the Buddha treat him and his erroneous view in a way that parallels the way they treat Ariṭṭha Formerly-of-the-Vulture-Killers in MN 22. First the narrator notes that the view is not merely wrong, but actually evil and pernicious: To adopt it would be to place an obstacle in one's path. The monks try, unsuccessfully, to dissuade Sāti from his view, after which they report the case to the Buddha. The Buddha calls Sāti into his presence, and after ascertaining that Sāti will not abandon his view even when reprimanded by the Buddha himself, he abandons Sāti as too recalcitrant to teach, and turns to cross-question the monks as to the relevant right view of how consciousness functions in the process leading to repeated birth.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.038.than.html