problems of perennialism and fundamentalism

[Anonymous No.18022207]

If all orthodox religions are true, how are we going to deal with the fact that they speak bad of each other? It is well known that christians like John of Damascus considered Islam to be a heresy, or that the Quran considers the Bible to be corrupted. Maybe you will tell me that all of this is part of exoterism, dogma, etc and it is relative, but if you are going to say this to any priest or authority of any religion of any time, he will probably kick you out of the Church. On the other hand, it is impossible to admit that only one religion is true, when you read about the metaphysical and mystical experiences of people from other religions. For example, there are sufi saints which had visions of Christ and the Holy Virgin, what is the christian explication for this? That they were actually demons? It is hilarious to think like this... Or what should a christian say about the rich history of Islam? About its beautiful mosques, its calligraphy and the wisdom of the sufis? That all of this come from Satan? It is absurd to think like this. Also, I already imagine that some people will say stuff like "All religions have some truth in them but only Christianity has the full truth", and I would reply that you can say this about any religion.

[Anonymous No.18022262]

>>18022207
>sufi saints which had visions of Christ and the Holy Virgin, what is the christian explication for this?
Both are present in the Qur'an. It's not different from a Christian seeing a vision of a biblical prophet. I don't see the contradiction
Or what should a christian say about the rich history of Islam? About its beautiful mosques, its calligraphy and the wisdom of the sufis?
This I don't get at all. Is the implication that "beautiful" aesthetics can only come from God? I bet the gardens of Babylon and the ziqqurat were neat too, but all abrahamic religions would agree that they were idol worshipers venerating false gods regardless
>you can say this about any religion
Correct. And?

[Anonymous No.18022268]

>>18022207
Also
>if you are going to say this to any priest or authority of any religion of any time, he will probably kick you out of the Church
It is clear that you have never actually been to a church or any other temple

[Anonymous No.18022269]

>>18022207
Perennialism is so retarded

[Anonymous No.18022282]

>>18022207
>Also, I already imagine that some people will say stuff like "All religions have some truth in them but only Christianity has the full truth"
Replace Christianity with Islam and is true. The Mohammedan revelation was the last one so if you see perennialism from this point of view, muslims can agree with it.

[Anonymous No.18022313]

>>18022262
>Correct. And?
This proves that is subjective and there is no reason to believe that a certain religion is superior to others.
>>18022268
>It is clear that you have never actually been to a church or any other temple
I was and I know exactly what priests think about this subject

[Anonymous No.18022320]

>>18022313
>there is no reason to believe that a certain religion is superior to others
All you have to do is examine their doctrines and proofs and see what stands up to philosophical scrutiny. All religions are not on the same level, and five minutes of thinking would dispel this attitude.

[Anonymous No.18022332]

>>18022320
Five minutes of thinking would make you believe that x religion is the superior one, and ten minutes of thinking would make you believe that y religion is the superior one. Believe me, I thought about this for some time and there is no sincere conclusion to this topic.

[Anonymous No.18022336]

>>18022313
>This proves that is subjective and there is no reason to believe that a certain religion is superior to others
No, this just proves that every religion group has faith in its convictions and may or may not bring about several arguments in favour of its or against others beliefs that are going to be rejected by the other groups. If this is supposed to be some kind of revelation I don't see what kind of response you expect aside for "yeah no fucking shit"
Would a pagan worshiping the sun solve the religion question simply because he can point at the sun which is for everyone to see? I really don't get what you are trying to get to

[Anonymous No.18022342]

>>18022207
Because they don't. Islam and Christianity are not traditional religions.

[Anonymous No.18022343]

>>18022332
I have thought about this for 10+ years, and I completely disagree.

[Anonymous No.18022351]

>>18022207
>If all orthodox religions are true
Who believes this? seems like a faulty premise

[Anonymous No.18022364]

>>18022336
My point is that I am tired of everyone thinking that x or y religion is the superior one. I want to know the objective truth, and looking at the above mentioned people, I really don't want to end up like them. That being said, I still think that some sort of perennialism is the objective truth but Guenon's and Schuon's explications aren't that convincing.

[Anonymous No.18022374]

>>18022343
And what is your conclusion? What religion has the full truth?

[Anonymous No.18022386]

>>1802220

it was always about larping 4chan is doing the same.

[Anonymous No.18022394]

>>18022313
>I was and I know exactly what priests think about this subject
>he thinks priests aren't just exoteric authorities

[Anonymous No.18022399]

>>18022394
>he thinks priests aren't just exoteric authorities
What is your point?

[Anonymous No.18022415]

oh look, another guenonfag thread

[Anonymous No.18022419]

>>18022374
None of them have the full truth, (though it's hypothetically possible that there could be one with the full truth), but all of them are more truthful than nihilism.

[Anonymous No.18022434]

Christianity and Islam just appropriated Judaism.

[Anonymous No.18022435]

>>18022399
That the opinions of priests is irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.18022450]

>>18022364
>I want the truth!
>no, not that one

[Anonymous No.18022474]

>>18022207
theyre not all true, idiot. each traditionalist thinks his religion is better and truer than the others, but perrenialism means acknowleding that all religions(expect mormonism) comes from the early worship of one god.

[Anonymous No.18022476]

>>18022435
It was relevant for all early christians.

[Anonymous No.18022487]

>>18022476
Only for the masses.

[Anonymous No.18022494]

>>18022474
>each traditionalist thinks his religion is better and truer than the others
What traditionalist? Guenon never thought that Islam is superior to all other religions like some muslim larpers believe, he was a hardcore vedantist in thought until his death.
Neither Schuon believed that or any other member of the traditionalist school.

[Anonymous No.18022557]

>>18022207
>If all orthodox religions are true, how are we going to deal with the fact that they speak bad of each other?

[Anonymous No.18022568]

>If all orthodox religions are true, how are we going to deal with the fact that they speak bad of each other? It is well known that christians like John of Damascus considered Islam to be a heresy, or that the Quran considers the Bible to be corrupted. Maybe you will tell me that all of this is part of exoterism, dogma, etc and it is relative, but if you are going to say this to any priest or authority of any religion of any time, he will probably kick you out of the Church. On the other hand, it is impossible to admit that only one religion is true, when you read about the metaphysical and mystical experiences of people from other religions. For example, there are sufi saints which had visions of Christ and the Holy Virgin, what is the christian explication for this? That they were actually demons? It is hilarious to think like this... Or what should a christian say about the rich history of Islam? About its beautiful mosques, its calligraphy and the wisdom of the sufis? That all of this come from Satan? It is absurd to think like this. Also, I already imagine that some people will say stuff like "All religions have some truth in them but only Christianity has the full truth", and I would reply that you can say this about any religion.
>If all orthodox religions are true
Perennialism doesn't see "all orthodox religions as true" but most orthodox religions are imperfect reflections of the Primordial Traditions found in earlier cycles. Therefore most are valid paths but none are true in totality.

[Anonymous No.18022576]

>>18022494
if he picked islam, then he thinks islam was the best choice. part of the faith is that you must reject any other, if he didn't he would be a larper

[Anonymous No.18022603]

>>18022568
>reflections of the Primordial Traditions found in earlier cycles
this particular traditionalist belief is rooted in hinduism, to say that the people of the past were all perfect demigods is an insult to God. instead it is more fitting to say that all orthodox religions are reflections and testaments to the one true reality, God

[Anonymous No.18022619]

>>18022603
>this particular traditionalist belief is rooted in hinduism
its actually rooted in many traditions but preserved best in Hinduism

>to say that the people of the past were all perfect demigods is an insult to God.
ok? cry about it i guess.

>instead it is more fitting to say that all orthodox religions are reflections and testaments to the one true reality, God
No,
orthodox religions are imperfect reflections of the Primordial Traditions

[Anonymous No.18022640]

>>18022603
>to say that the people of the past were all perfect demigods is an insult to God
No retard, the perfect humans of abrahamic religions were the ones before the fall, Adam and Eve.

[Anonymous No.18022641]

>>18022207
>On the other hand, it is impossible to admit that only one religion is true
Of course it isn't. There's a shitload of theories about what causes disease (the latest one about 5G, for example); but only one is true.

There's a shitload of theories about the underlying physical laws of the universe (say, string theory); but only one is true.

Why should religion be different? Relativism is bullshit in every other sphere of life, but somehow there's an exception for spiritual matters?

Sound like massive cope. And cringe.

[Anonymous No.18022657]

>>18022641
So what is the true religion? You all say that there is only one true religion but you have different answers. Pathetic.

[Anonymous No.18022691]

>>18022657
> "You all say that there is only one true cause for cancer but you have different answers."
So? It just means that difficult questions have difficult answers.

> So what is the true religion?
This question is out of scope; I'm not here to teach you theology.

[Anonymous No.18022781]

>>18022641
>>18022657
>>18022691
Perennialism doesn't see "all orthodox religions as true" but most orthodox religions are imperfect reflections of the Primordial Traditions found in earlier cycles. Therefore most are valid paths but none are true in totality.

[Anonymous No.18022865]

>>18022781
Actually there is a part in this religions that is true in totality, the metaphysical one, which is without forms.

[Anonymous No.18023027]

stop thinking with your head. just choose one you fit in best, open your heart and feel Truth within. it doesn't matter which one is "the truest". don't approach religion or spirituality with your reason or logic. good luck

[Anonymous No.18023144]

>>18022207
A bigger problem is that Indo-European religions, most notably Germanic paganism and from that medieval Christianity, Greek paganism, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, etc are all build around a rigid class/racial system, while Islam is all about mixing races. So any attempt at universalist "traditionalism" would get stuck on that very issue.

[Anonymous No.18023172]

>>18022781
But somehow liberalism, physics or deism are not reflections of this primordial tradition, even though they create results

[Anonymous No.18023206]

>>18022494
>he was a hardcore vedantist in thought until his death. Neither Schuon believed that or anyother member of the traditionalist school.
Perennialist Muslims are LARPers reeking with kufr.

[Anonymous No.18023208]

>>18023027
So religion is for mouthdrooling retard npcs? Damn, I guess those internet atheists were right after all

[Anonymous No.18023225]

>>18023027
>open your heart and feel Truth within. it doesn't matter which one is "the truest
The absolute state of tradtards

[Anonymous No.18023226]

>>18022781
It's impossible to reconcile all of those religious traditions lol

[Anonymous No.18023270]

/lit/ just can’t cope that pic related is far more in accordance with the primordial tradition than their occult larping and syncretism will be

[Anonymous No.18023275]

>>18023027
I did that, now I am a liberal

[Anonymous No.18023286]

>>18023270
Interesting, where is the caste system in the Islamic world?

[Anonymous No.18023296]

>>18023270
>our primordial tradition is raping children and beating women

[Anonymous No.18023312]

>>18023270
Also another point, you cant really arque that tribal societies arent full of magic, voodoo and stuff like that. Ironically occultism combined with a caste system seems the easiest way to recreate this

[Anonymous No.18023322]

>>18023296
If you read old knightly romances, you have nobles just beating their wives in front of everyone. Hilarious.

[Anonymous No.18023343]

>>18023296
>tradlarper exposes himself as a liberal
Every time

[Anonymous No.18023366]

>>18023343
Not a tradlarper.

[Anonymous No.18023372]

>>18023366
Beating women and get a cute teen wife is very trad.

[Anonymous No.18023385]

>>18023372
Why not a cute boy? Greek tradition is based.

[Anonymous No.18023393]

>>18023385
Only before marriage though, then you get your cute teen wife

[Anonymous No.18023476]

>>18022207
All religions are simulacra of a primordial revelation that never existed.

tl;Dr Baudrillard fucks Guénon

[Anonymous No.18023493]

>>18022207
I think with Islam as with Judaism it can be claimed that the sense of "us" is a part of the method. and God knows best.

[Anonymous No.18023557]

>>18022781
>Norse paganism
>Greek nythology
A pagan larper made this

[Anonymous No.18023593]

>>18022781
reading intro to hindu doctrines guenon is not very impressed by the greeks I can tell you that much, and in particular seems to denounce the value entirely of "mythology". he seems to think that there was probably something to us unknown going on in Hellas in homeric times but that it lost it's metaphysical soul. Only Aristotle seems to be based

[Anonymous No.18023632]

>>18022207
>If all orthodox religions are true...
This is a wrong premise, this is not the stance of the Perennials.

[Anonymous No.18023695]

>>18023557
All perennialists are larpers

[Anonymous No.18023745]

>>18023593
Guenon is just a slave reversing values. Hes basically saying "look at those strong and ingenious greeks and romans, they are evil!"

[Anonymous No.18023906]

>>18023208
>>18023225
You will understand what I said once you kill your ego. Hopefully sooner than later.

[Anonymous No.18023918]

>>18023906
>dude it will all be clear once you become a doormat with no thinking of his own
Very compelling

[Anonymous No.18024089]

>>18023172
>But somehow liberalism, physics or deism are not reflections of this primordial tradition, even though they create results
and? what does that have to do with Traditionalism

[Anonymous No.18024103]

>>18023226
>It's impossible to reconcile all of those religious traditions lol
no one does this though

[Anonymous No.18024113]

>>18023593
>reading intro to hindu doctrines guenon is not very impressed by the greeks
and that matters why?

>and in particular seems to denounce the value entirely of "mythology".
yes

> seems to think that there was probably something to us unknown going on in Hellas in homeric times but that it lost it's metaphysical soul. Only Aristotle seems to be based
Platonism

[Anonymous No.18024135]

>>18022641
>>18023476
>>18023695
>>18023745
>>18023343

>>18023225
>he is the representative of Traditionalists
>>18023208
*tips fedora*
>>18023275
I cringed
>>18022781
OP got his answer

The people shitting the board and seething need to go.

[Anonymous No.18024148]

I am OP and this just made me more confused

[Anonymous No.18024485]

>>18023906
I don’t need to become an NPC, thanks

[Anonymous No.18024755]

>>18024485
you already are

[Anonymous No.18025688]

>>18023286
1. good muslims. 2. muslims' slaves. 3. evil muslims. 4. dhimmi kafirs. 5. harbi kafirs.
roughly.
nothimbtw