/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18020402]

An elderly Japanese man and I have been discussing Yukio Mishima over the past few months, and he has just shared with me his favorite authors besides Mishima.

I thought /lit/ would be interested.

"If you like novelists
Ryunosuke Akutagawa
Nagai Kafu
Ogai Mori
Kensaburo Oe
Ango Sakaguchi

If you like poets
Kenji Miyazawa
Chuya Nakahara
Takayuki Kiyooka
Sakutaro Hagiwara
Shinpei Kusano
Takaaki Yoshimoto"

I can share it in Japanese as well if some of the names end up being incorrectly translated.

[Anonymous No.18020410]

>>18020402
Thanks based anon, saving the list

[Anonymous No.18020415]

>>18020402
That's really cool. How did you two meet?

[Anonymous No.18020422]

Thanks for the recs.

[Anonymous No.18020427]

>here's a laundry list of names

Gee, thanks.

[Anonymous No.18020428]

>>18020402
are you his catamite?

[Anonymous No.18020429]

>>18020402
But Akutagawa is a short-story writer.

[Anonymous No.18020435]

>>18020402
Very cool. Sadly I don't speak Japanese.

[Anonymous No.18020440]

just wondering, i do t think it deserves a thread of itsown, so I’ll ask here.

What is with the Japanese and Moby Dick? I work on nantucket, and there is this kind of hush hush thing were a number of rich looking japanese cone to nantucket, some of the girls wear kimonos, buy 10,000 dollar baskets, and leave.

Yah yah, i know japan has a big whaling history too, but anything deaper?

[Anonymous No.18020446]

>>18020415
I followed a ton of Japanese people on Instagram, to help with learning Japanese.
Upon posting my Mishima books, he commented nice things, so we began messaging.

[Anonymous No.18020461]

>>18020435
There are English translations, friend :)

[Anonymous No.18020470]

>>18020446
Did you get gay sex from it?

[Anonymous No.18020471]

>>18020461
Really? Nice. I thought these were more or less obscure. Sorry, I know next to nothing about Japanese literature.

[Anonymous No.18020482]

>>18020429
The phrase "If you like novelists" (小説家であれば) could equally mean "if you are a novelist" so perhaps he meant that if you enjoyed novels, or were planning on becoming one, you would like those authors.

[Anonymous No.18020488]

>>18020470
>>18020428
>what 4chan does to your brain

[Anonymous No.18020495]

>>18020488
yes.

[Anonymous No.18020503]

>>18020446
Is he a nationalist or just a literature fan in general

[Anonymous No.18020557]

LARP

[Anonymous No.18020636]

>>18020503
Just literature fan, he calls fascists "fools"
He's a big fan of this one particular modern economic idea, but it doesn't seem to be very far right or left. It's called "MMT" if you're interested, and to show that I'm not making it up like >>18020557 seems to believe
If searching "MMT" doesn't give proper results, #三橋貴明 on Instagram is what he shills.

[Anonymous No.18020642]

>>18020402
小説家であれば
芥川龍之介、永井荷風、森鴎外
大江健三郎
坂口安吾
詩人は
宮沢賢治
中原中也
清岡卓行
萩原朔太郎
草野心平
吉本隆明
古典はそれほど勉強してません
Here was his original message if anyone finds it helpful.

[Anonymous No.18020698]

>>18020636
>MMT
Based old man keeping up with trends in monetary economics.

[Anonymous No.18020708]

>>18020471
They all seem to at least have either an English Wikipedia page, or an English book on Amazon

[Anonymous No.18020826]

>>18020402
And here are a Japanese high school girls recommendations too, as I'm sure you're all very interested in.

Kanae Minato (湊かなえ)
Eiko Yamaguchi (山口えいこ)

Although Yamaguchi seems to have no English translations currently.

[Anonymous No.18020938]

has anyone read natsume soseki?

[Anonymous No.18020955]

>>18020402
I doubt the quality of the man's taste. For instance, I don't see Nisio Isin anywhere on that list.

[Anonymous No.18021019]

>>18020955
He seems a bit more interested in a different era than Nisio Isins, I'll ask him if he's read Nisio and >>18020938 though

[Anonymous No.18021207]

>>18020446
Bootysnatcher in your DMs.

[Anonymous No.18021376]

>>18020955
>Nisio Isin
The guy writes pretentious pomo trash but with big anime breasts.

[Anonymous No.18021398]

>>18021019
>I'll ask him if he's read Nisio
A-Anon...

[Anonymous No.18021411]

>>18020955
I don't see any Ditama Bow either, I doubt this man really appreciates Japanese literature

[Anonymous No.18021453]

>>18020440
bump, now I'm interested aswell

[Anonymous No.18021461]

>>18020955
nigga he said an elderly man, why would he read Nisio Isin?

[Anonymous No.18021466]

>>18020446
>he commented nice things
Where you acting like a baka?

[Anonymous No.18021469]

>>18020402
How does he feel about Mishima's homosexuality? Not a meme genuinely curious.

[Anonymous No.18021474]

>>18020422
Why is he so mean to animals in his books?

[Anonymous No.18021617]

>>18020402
Does he like Kawabata or Tanizaki

[Anonymous No.18021720]

>>18020446
did you use hashtags or something? how did he find your post?

[Anonymous No.18022376]

>>18020415
He got bummed in a toilet as an English teacher in Japan, naturally the old man was a Mishima fan also.

[Anonymous No.18022638]

>>18020938
Yes. Great author. Read Kokoro.

[Anonymous No.18022649]

>>18021720
I just followed a bunch of random people really, they follow back out of kindness.
>>18021398
I see.. Well, he didn't check him out yet, so I took it back.
>>18020938
"Soseki is also one of Japan's leading literary figures alongside Ogai. However, I haven't read through because I thought that I was interested in literature after I was 20 years old and I was past the age of sympathizing with Soseki's literature. For the same reason, Osamu Dazai." - The elderly Japanese man

>>18021466
My post was just an image of my book, with the caption in Japanese since the title was in English.
His initial comment was "The Sea of Fertility is one of Mishimas best works! You have good taste, nice to meet you :)"
>>18021469
I will ask him his opinion, but he seems to have a very open mind on that kind of thing, unlike myself, or what is popularized as "the modern elderly Japanese man"

>>18021617
I will ask him, but make sure they are appropriate this time haha

[Anonymous No.18022697]

>>18020402
>no soseki
Cringe

[Anonymous No.18022747]

>if you like poets

Translation? Of japanese poetry?

[Anonymous No.18022751]

Perhaps I will share with you all some of his more interesting thoughts on Mishima once I get home.

[Anonymous No.18022753]

>no Dazai

[Anonymous No.18022834]

>>18022649
>I was past the age of sympathizing with Soseki's literature. For the same reason, Osamu Dazai
Strange considering Sōseki wrote most of his books in middle age and Dazai is widely read by people of just about all ages. Don’t know why he’d have this perception.

[Anonymous No.18022867]

>>18020440
lmfao where and when are you seeing people in kimonos? I just see bleach blonde bimbos running to the juice bar and snapping instagram photos

[Anonymous No.18022869]

>>18020402
Sakaguchi Ango is much worse than Dazai Osamu. I can't imagine that someone who enjoys Mishima would enjoy him.

[Anonymous No.18022937]

>>18022867
yah, no, its in the very early summer before the big tourist rush.

I posted pic related as evidence from one of the fancy bookshops there. They dont sell things in russian. And like I said, it was hush hush, like maybe a grand total of 30-40.

Maybe its a business convention?

[Anonymous No.18023061]

Why do you all care about the thoughts of some random old man?

[Anonymous No.18023063]

>>18023061
couldnt that be said of everyone?

[Anonymous No.18023194]

>>18023063
Yes but this instance seems particularly shallow. We’re just name dropping authors read by some random elderly Japanese man.

[Anonymous No.18023283]

I liked Ryonosuke Akutagawa's stories quite a bit, check out Green Onions.

[Anonymous No.18023298]

>>18020427

[Anonymous No.18024263]

>>18022649
>I was interested in literature after I was 20 years old and I was past the age of sympathizing with Soseki's literature
kek, btfo

[Anonymous No.18024576]

>>18020636
I'll try not to derail your tried getting into the weeds but Modern Monetary Theory isn't some obscure hare-brained thing, it's been in tons of news publications the last few years and promoted by accomplished academics. There's ample youtube vids of lectures and debates as well. Professor of economics and public policy Stephanie Kelton has been leading the charge. She worked on advising Bernie Sander's economic platform centered around MMT. Her new book the The Deficit Myth is a good explainer.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45731395-the-deficit-myth?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=sAtklYsfJj&rank=1

[Anonymous No.18024833]

>>18024576
I only realized this after posting it, sorry for phrasing it as something unknown, economics isn't my point of expertise, and I'd personally never heard of it.

>>18023194
He's very involved in Japanese literature, I just thought Japanese enthusiasts on /lit/ would find it interesting or informative.

>>18021617
"Both are beautiful writers who emphasized the essence of Japanese. Tanizaki tended to be somewhat obsessed with aesthetic expressions, but his artistry was high :)"

[Anonymous No.18024855]

>>18024576
Not to derail your comfy old nipponese man thread but:
MMT is stupid. Really stupid. It makes no sense, nor is it really supposed to. The principal reasons for its 'creation' (it doesn't really have a core textbook so it can't really be said to have been properly laid out) was solely to promulgate a view towards more fiscal spending—now, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it IS quite dishonest to pretend to come up with a brand new theory, which really is just rehashing old mostly outdated views, with the intention to use the fact of this theory's shininess to con people into adopting your views.

[Anonymous No.18024907]

>>18020402
Where can I meet JAV actress

[Anonymous No.18024914]

>>18024833
no worries. Wish I had more to contribute to your nice thread but I saved your recs for the future so thanks in advance

[Anonymous No.18025004]

Here are some of his most interesting comments he's shared with me

"I don't think Japanese youth's view of Mishima goes beyond his framework as a literary writer. I think very few young people delve into the meaning of his death. There are voices concerned about the shift of Japanese youth to the right, but that is just racism and hate, a longing for the era of the Empire of Japan. It is a superficial fake that is incompatible with the essential nationalism captured by art supremeists like Mishima. Former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe was a good example. He is a symbol of a fake nationalist. I can't feel any intelligence from him."

"It can be said that he protected the losing Japanese culture by betting on death. Without his death, I would not have been able to make my generation, nearly 50 years younger, aware that Japanese culture was in the process of declining. There are some who deny his death without thinking, but I think it is no exaggeration to say that it is the death of a hero who will remain in Japanese history and must not be forgotten in the future. However, I personally interpret it as a "martyr" who was struck by "beauty" as an artist rather than as a samurai. I think it's okay to replace "beauty" with "Japanese culture.""

"The people of the defeated nations of WW2 have a view of masochistic history somewhere in their heads. Even if you don't have any faults, doing so keeps your mind stable. In the case of Japan, the fact that Confucianism has taken root for a long time will have an influence. Nonsense humility is a characteristic of Japanese morality. Mishima and the postwar right wing despised it. However, the nonsense spirit of humility still dominates the Japanese. The average Japanese, including myself, is not good at asserting themselves."
>>18024914 what he has said about MMT:

"First of all, I would like to assume that Marx's writing itself is innocent. Because he is only stating the facts. Denying him is equivalent to denying the law of universal gravitation and the heliocentric theory. On the flip side, it is different from Stalinism and Maoism, and the Japanese Communist Party was no exception. I think the modern Japanese Communist Party is more conservative and patriotic than the conservative Liberal Democratic Party. Japan's conservative political parties are dominated by self-interested and self-interested people, and they are completely corrupt. The political party I support is Reiwa Shinsengumi, and I have a lot of hope for MMT = Modern Monetary Theory."

"#三橋貴明Only he and his surroundings can be said to be cool in this book today. I'm just their follower "

[Anonymous No.18025031]

>>18025004
Interesting post anon, thank you very much. I'm the one that asked about Kawabata and Tanizaki. It's odd to read this as a recent development in my thought has been the idea that social democratic parties are better "conservative" parties than most centre-right ones, in the sense of preserving the communitarian ethic and social bonds of society -- whereas right-wing parties are all privatisation, outsourcing, hyper-individualism, etc.

[Anonymous No.18025119]

>>18020446
im also learning japanese, do you recommend any insta accounts?

[Anonymous No.18025132]

as silly as it might be to ask, have you ever asked him about visual novels?

[Anonymous No.18025175]

>>18025119
I have a penpal, and simply made a new account, and followed all of their friends haha
I'd really just recommend following random japanese people, with less than 1,000 followers. If you're interested in something, say, a musician in japan, go to their page, and follow people who follow them.
The goal is to learn common Japanese lingo, see what they're actually like/commonly interested in (much more than a youtube video, or google search could tell you) and possibly even make some friends before you potentially visit.
Don't be afraid to DM them, they're reaction will either be to block you because they're frusturated by your bad japanese, or talk to you because they find foreigners fascinating.

[Anonymous No.18025194]

>>18025132
manga? He's said he hasn't been interested in anime since he was a teenager, but I can ask him.

[Anonymous No.18025197]

>>18022649
>"Soseki is also one of Japan's leading literary figures alongside Ogai. However, I haven't read through because I thought that I was interested in literature after I was 20 years old and I was past the age of sympathizing with Soseki's literature. For the same reason, Osamu Dazai." - The elderly Japanese man
absolutely BTFO

glad to see the weebs here get destroyed

[Anonymous No.18025229]

>>18020482
the 小説家であれば probably refers to the distinction between writers of prose and writers of poetry in OP's post. I assume the conversation went something like, 三島由紀夫以外の好きな作家は、小説家であれば〇〇、詩人であれば〇〇です。so here 小説家であれば wouldnt be translated as "if you are a novelist", but more like "if we're talking novelists, ...".

[Anonymous No.18025263]

>>18020440
This guy on a whaling ship was one of the first nips to go to America. Whaling ships were some of the first traders from America in Japan, so the Japanese were working with Nantucket whalers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakahama_Manjir%C5%8D
Melville also said the Pequod used Japanese lumber for replacement masts and Ahab lost his leg in their waters.

[Anonymous No.18025274]

>>18025229
Yes, I simply asked what his favorite authors were, so the context necessary for easily implying either translation was missing. I believe you are correct though.

[Anonymous No.18025311]

>>18025004
This is so interesting thank you Anon

[Anonymous No.18025387]

>>18025311
I will assume that is asking for more :)

"It will change if it becomes a burnt field again in the war. The Japanese live in a safe area, especially away from the fear of death for many years, so they don't feel uncomfortable looking away from the essence with a pity. As Mishima predicted, physical death is overwhelmingly more than soul death.
It is believed to be of great value."

"In the last two decades, Japan has fallen behind China in all areas. Regarding the military, it depends 100% on the United States, and it is taboo to insist on strengthening the armament. Unless the generation who does not know ww2 awakens, it will be impossible to threaten China."

"It's a difficult place. Mishima's view of the emperor does not deny modern Japanese culture, but modern Japanese will not understand it. The Imperial Rescript on Education is also unreasonable. I think that Shinto itself is the most traditional tradition that Japanese people should follow, but I think that Shinto morality still remains in the Japanese as a subconscious."

"Unless there is a lot of Americanization in Japan, it seems difficult to overturn its values. Unless Tokyo becomes a burnt field due to a war or natural disaster, only a few wise men will be awakened."

"Mishima's machoism presupposes "death" contradictoryly, so few people will understand it. There are many young Japanese people who practice their physical training as "life" = sexual appeal, but none of them practice their physical training in preparation for their death."

[Anonymous No.18025714]

>>18025387
>burnt field
I wonder what word he's translating this from

[Anonymous No.18025718]

>>18025175
Hey, thanks a lot for this advice. Godspeed with your learning and immersion

[Anonymous No.18025740]

>>18025194
In that case, no, he isn't interested in visual novels. They're basically anime adjacent computer novels with visuals and soundtracks, sometimes voiced and sometimes with choices. They also have a reputation for covering taboo subjects like mental illness with extremely questionable content, and a reputation for often being lengthy (sometimes 50-100+ hours). I asked because I've been curious about the recognition of the denpa genre of visual novels relative to Mishima and other "taboo" Japanese writers

[Anonymous No.18025830]

>>18025740
>They also have a reputation for covering taboo subjects like mental illness with extremely questionable content
They do? My impression of visual novels is all stuff like Fate and eroge.

[Anonymous No.18025867]

>>18020402
Ooh thanks OP

[Anonymous No.18025949]

>>18025830
Yeah, you could check out さよならを教えて if you're interested - if nothing else, it made for good language learning for me. There's also 素晴らしき日々 (and its protoype 終ノ空), which is far more rambling and takes time to unfold as having a focus on taboos. Just bear in mind that while these texts somewhat try to posit themselves in a literary tradition alongside Mishima, these are also profoundly disturbing works that sometimes blur a line between severely fucked up porn and art

[Anonymous No.18025966]

>>18021474
To demonstrate debasement.

[Anonymous No.18026003]

>>18025740
I still asked him either way, it's 5:00 am in japan right now, so the response should still be a little more.

>>18025714
度焼け野原
quite literally means "field of burning"

[Anonymous No.18026016]

>>18025714
>>18026003
戦争でもう一度焼け野原にでもなれば変わります。
here was the full sentance.

[Anonymous No.18026060]

>>18026003
>>18026016
oh wow is that an idiom?

[Anonymous No.18026081]

>>18026060
I don't believe so. . .

[Anonymous No.18026237]

>>18025949
Yeah so explain to me how exactly they do relate to Mishima or are you saying they just proposition that they do without actually doing so?

[Anonymous No.18026361]

>>18026237
It's not explicit, but the 電波 genre often (and specifically, in the vns I listed) deals with protagonists who feel as if they're being called to a higher purpose to become a savior, eventually a martyr, to save the world from degradation. They're set in modern, industrial environments (like さよならを教えて is from the perspective of a student teacher, and is set entirely in the evenings after their work) and create a jarring sense of these ancient ideals being incompatible with the modern world. They also deal heavily with the body, taboo sexuality, and violence. There's also the writers' constant references to some of the same European influences Mishima had, specifically the texts, cultures, and more, alongside the references to Japanese writers; both "mainstream" and "controversial," but canonized alongside Mishima. Lastly, the writers have openly expressed nationalist beliefs. The overlap seems significant to me and, as an anecdote, the people I talk with who have read these texts also have interest in Mishima

[Anonymous No.18026379]

Autistic weebs ITT are impressed because you talked to a Japanese person kek

[Anonymous No.18026545]

>>18026379
I now imagined autistic kids in japan being impressed by one of them talking to an american boomer

[Anonymous No.18026691]

>>18024907
You actually can meet JAV actresses, but I am not going to tell you how.

[Anonymous No.18026719]

>>18026003
>>18026016
>>18026060
That should be translated as "burnt to the ground," "utterly destroyed," "devastated," and so on.
"If Japan were utterly devastated in another war, then things would change."
"If Japan were once again to be devastated in war, then things would change."
>>18026545
This is unironically how things are over there. Most Japanese have never even said hello to a foreigner. A huge amount have never seen one in real life. We are a total mystery to them.

[Anonymous No.18026829]

>>18025004
Very cool thread anon, /lit/ is mostly shit and circle jerk but this is interesting
>The people of the defeated nations of WW2 have a view of masochistic history somewhere in their heads
This is something I have asked myself for a long time, I do not know that much about Japanese history or character but I have a feeling that they are spiritually castrated post wwii, from imperialistic warriors to grass eaters, I was always wondering what the Japanese themselves think about this and how it differs depending on what generation you ask. A lot of this frustration seems to be sublimated in art, in depictions of sex and violence.

[Anonymous No.18026845]

>>18020402
Ask him about Banana Yoshimoto

[Anonymous No.18026921]

>>18026719
ありがとう
>>18026829
Men of all western nations post world war 2 have become weak. Japan is so evident because of how much their culture revolved around not being weak before it, but if you look at all other modernized countries you can see the same things there.
I try to encourage young Japanese men to improve their bodies, and get more invested in their culture, but their responses are usually "it is IMPOSSIBLE because of how much schoolwork there is." I'd take that as a fair complaint, but I'm they will use that same excuse when they have a job, and never grow as a person.
>>18026845
Will do.

[Anonymous No.18026943]

>>18026921
>but their responses are usually "it is IMPOSSIBLE because of how much schoolwork there is.
This is unironically true. When they get into college, they'll be able to do whatever they want and basically party or work out 24/7 if they want to, but until then they are stuck.
Also, there are lots of young men into bodybuilding there now. I suspect that that is a sign that they are moving in the same direction as us.

[Anonymous No.18026951]

Do Japanese people use 4channel? Any Japanese here?

[Anonymous No.18027044]

>>18025132
"Visual novel. It's the time I've heard of this, and it's an unknown culture D: Video games such as Sony PlayStation have only been around for about 30 years. Paper media is being eliminated, but I have a strong feeling that reading is legitimate in paper media. I would like to investigate further and experience it if there is an opportunity :D"

[Anonymous No.18027060]

>>18026943
>I suspect that that is a sign that they are moving in the same direction as us.
Which direction would that be?

[Anonymous No.18027091]

What's been your guys experiences reading Japanese literature in translation, I've read a couple of Mishima novels and I have always felt like his style just sounded odd in parts, I think it's cause Japanese is so unlike English that translation is super difficult when the prose style is utilising form in stylistic ways and not just content. Like Murakami in English was fine cause his writing was basically just functional and basic.

[Anonymous No.18027096]

>>18027060
Do you live in the United States? If so, take whatever your image is of the state of American social life and project it onto Japan, delayed by fifty years or so.

[Anonymous No.18027101]

>>18027091
My translation of Spring Snow had a bunch of typos in it, so I don't think I could compare fairly.
Translations do usually come out funky, but I like it as a unique writing style.

[Anonymous No.18027105]

>>18027091
>Like Murakami in English was fine cause his writing was basically just functional and basic.
The originals sound like an attempt to write an English novel in Japanese. Someone once posted here saying that he sometimes writes drafts in English and then translates them into Japanese. This is probably the real reason why he sounds more natural in English.

[Anonymous No.18027117]

>>18027096
Yes... I'm moving there because it is at a point I admire, which america is no longer at. I hope I can do something to change it, but it seems not going there at all would be most logical way to do so. It seems there is no place in the world for someone like me anymore, perhaps it is why Mishimas work appeals to me so much.

[Anonymous No.18027206]

>>18027117
Japan might be better for someone like you in some ways, but only if you can avoid the negative aspects of life there. I suggest that you stay away from Tokyo, by the way. I haven't been to many parts of the country, but the kindest, friendliest, and warmest people I've met have been from Kansai, especially Osaka.
Ultimately, you will have to go there and see what it's like for yourself. Don't idealize the place, don't idealize the women, and don't idealize the culture. See it for what it is, and take of it what you will.

[Anonymous No.18027238]

>>18027117
>I'm moving there because it is at a point I admire, which america is no longer at.
What’s that exactly

[Anonymous No.18027274]

>>18027238
98% Japanese people. I like Japanese people. I say it'd be logically wrong to move there because, I am not one!

>>18027206
What you say is true. Strangely enough, I don't find Japanese women attractive, but for the other points I may find it more difficult.
Thank you for the advice!
anyways, I didn't mean to derail the thread in so narcissistic a manor.

[Anonymous No.18027299]

>>18026845
"There is a recognition that she is an excellent literary person such as Banana Yoshimoto and Haruki Murakami, but I have not read the work. Banana's father, Takaaki Yoshimoto, is a "god"(kami, perhaps said as such, knowing it'd translate to "god" like boomers worship "guitar gods") for me, along with Mishima."

[Anonymous No.18027329]

>>18026951
Konnichiwa

[Anonymous No.18027344]

>>18027274
>I like Japanese people.
You will learn to dislike them when you go there.
>Strangely enough, I don't find Japanese women attractive
How many Japanese women have you seen in real life? They will never admit this, but Japanese look different in different parts of the country, so you will likely find women you find very attractive there. Also, if you go there, you will find them more attractive than before you went.

[Anonymous No.18027357]

>>18027117
>it is at a point I admire, which america is no longer at
what does this mean?
>It seems there is no place in the world for someone like me anymore
what kind of person is "someone like you"?

[Anonymous No.18027364]

>>18026361
I’m probably too old to be playing VNs but this sounds really intriguing. Please recommend me more VNs that I can look into. Why do they call it EM wave anyway? From what I’m reading online I’m thinking like Welcome to the NHK paranoia, maladaptive day dreaming, mental illness type stuff. On the mark or off it? I’m not so interested in the ancient ideals or the nationalist stuff but the rest of it I am so if you could provide refs along those lines, that would be great. Are you familiar with 惡の華?

[Anonymous No.18027426]

>>18027344
>You will learn to dislike them when you go there.
I have learned somewhat through my instagram messaging adventures, but I'm sure being with them in person would be the only sure way to form a solid opinion.
>you will likely find women you find very attractive there.
Perhaps, but from what I've seen they put on too much makeup, and edit all of their pictures to an extent that they don't look like themselves anymore.
I wouldn't mind dating one, but overall they don't seem like good wife-material.
>>18027357
>what kind of person is "someone like you"?
hahahaha

[Anonymous No.18027457]

>>18027299
Cool to know his opinion, I picked up a short novel of hers, second hand, today and didn't really know ow the context. It was good.

[Anonymous No.18027460]

>>18027426
>Perhaps, but from what I've seen they put on too much makeup, and edit all of their pictures to an extent that they don't look like themselves anymore.
That is Instagram, my dude. The Japanese girls I associate with are reluctant to put pictures of themselves up on the internet. Pop open Tinder and set it to any major city outside of Tokyo, and you will see lots of pictures of the back of women's heads.
>I wouldn't mind dating one, but overall they don't seem like good wife-material.
Instagram, my dude. Normal people do not spend their days on Instagram.

[Anonymous No.18027461]

>>18027426
Why are you explaining yourself to this person? Just stop replying.

[Anonymous No.18027476]

>>18027460
This is what I was thinking too, the ones I'd like probably aren't the type who'd spend any time on social media.
>>18027461
I'm enjoying the thread.
>>18027460
Perhaps you'd give me your discord or something if it's annoying people?

[Anonymous No.18027484]

mishima would find you pathetic.

[Anonymous No.18027487]

Very mastabatory post you have here. Yeah I can read Japanese too. But I don't feel the need to boast that I can understand some fucking reading list made by a random Japanese person on the internet.

The replies are cringe too. You retards will find any mundane thing interesting if it's from heckin' based Japan.

[Anonymous No.18027492]

>>18027487
lmao? I'm just sharing it since I found it interesting, and I knew others would too.

[Anonymous No.18027523]

>>18027476
I don't use Discord, but I wouldn't put much stock by the kind of person to get annoyed by two people having a conversation on an imageboard.
>>18027487
Who cares, man? It served as the gateway to a mildly interesting discussion. Some people here have never heard of these authors, and probably would never have heard of them, since they don't have access to a university library. There is nothing to be upset about.

[Anonymous No.18027526]

>>18027492
A random Japanese man's opinions: interesting. Reflects more the sorry state of the posters on this board honestly. Don't kid yourself.

[Anonymous No.18027527]

>>18027487
boo

At least it's something different and people are actually engaging in a topic and not just arguing / memeing

[Anonymous No.18027543]

>>18027526
I find many of his opinions pathetic, he considers himself just a tool to promote MMT, but he still has good taste in literature, and this is the literature board, so I'm happy to share, and have discussion about something I'm interested in.

[Anonymous No.18027546]

>>18027487
Wow a random Japanese guy has an opinion on Japanese authors! Stop the presses, this is extremely valuable! No way I could find out about Japanese authors on my own in 2 seconds online, now I can feel like I have a social life because someone else on 4chan talked to a Japanese person, which is very cool

[Anonymous No.18027547]

>>18027526
They’re just using it as an excuse to start a conversation, guy. I agree that it’s like “who cares” but there’s no need to get upset by it.

[Anonymous No.18027552]

>>18020402
Arigatou anon-san

[Anonymous No.18027655]

>>18027526
>>18027487
>>18027546
Trying too hard to be cutting.

[Anonymous No.18027704]

>>18020402
>>18020427
>Kenji Miyazawa
I've heard really good things about Night on the Galactic Railroad and it was on my list already. So there you go. Start there.

[Anonymous No.18027940]

>>18024907
Japan

[Anonymous No.18028005]

>>18024855
>Gets filtered by MMT
Jeez...

[Anonymous No.18028011]

>>18027526
He is japanese anon, his opinion is by default more valuable than 99% of people

[Anonymous No.18028238]

>>18027526
Oh nooo a post about literature on a literature board :( :( :(

[Anonymous No.18028802]

>>18022638
And I am a cat

[Anonymous No.18028823]

>>18027526
>A random Japanese man's opinions: interesting
This is correct.

[Anonymous No.18029608]

>>18026379
It'd be the same asking some old russian dude about Dostoyevsky

[Anonymous No.18029686]

>>18020402
>Akutagawa
divinely based schizo, havent heard of the rest though, saving. also try
> Tsutsui Yasutaka
only read a collection of stories by him (salmonella on planet porno), majority of them were funny as fuck, lole out loud at points. get it if you don't like women.
> Ryu Murakami
i could compare him to Chuck Palahniuk, trashy pulpy gore that's nonetheless original and interesting to read.

[Anonymous No.18029924]

>>18026719
> we are a total mystery to them

Can confirm. when I went to study abroad in Japan, sometimes I would get approached by elementary school kids in convenience store who wanted to make use of their shit English just for fun it seemed.

[Anonymous No.18029932]

>>18026829
>The people of the defeated nations of WW2 have a view of masochistic history somewhere in their heads

Same thing in Germany. There's a great recent book about this, if you can read German try giving "Siegen: oder vom Verlust der Selbstbehauptung" (Winning: or about the loss of self-assertion" a read.

[Anonymous No.18030579]

>>18020427
Go fuck yourself ungrateful cunt.

[Anonymous No.18030664]

>>18025004
>>18025387
Thank you for posting, these are very good

[Anonymous No.18030758]

>>18020440

Wherever there is whale slaughter, there the nips shall go

[Anonymous No.18030812]

>>18029686
Thank you for the recs anon !

[Anonymous No.18030820]

>>18020402
I think Akutagawa is the best.
Spinning gears is amazing and really captures the feeling of impending doom

[Anonymous No.18030851]

>>18020402
I can't look at decadent Japanese lit without thinking of anime twinks anymore.

Although I do wonder, do the Japanese consider it disrespectful against the authors legacy to have them in anime? Or is it fine?
The only thing in western lit that reminds me of this sort of thing, including wildly important authors in their own creation, is cringe all you must, Dante's Commedia. All with Virgil being his funny guide and all not.

[Anonymous No.18031011]

>>18027526
Fuck off retard

[Anonymous No.18031231]

>>18027044
Thanks for asking anyway! It's an interesting answer that helps to gauge the awareness of VNs in Japan
>>18027364
Most of the people writing these VNs are now 50+ boomers and the 電波 genre is basically dead now, with its most significant works originating in the late 90s/early 2000s, so being old isn't a problem haha. The name comes from a murderer who believed radio waves were speaking orders to him, and these VNs often deal with people who start interpreting messages in innocuous things. There's definitely a small overlap with Welcome to the NHK, but the overall atmosphere of these VNs are drastically different. 惡の華 is much more similar; it even features similar imagery as 素晴らしき日々 and 終ノ空, which both deal with heavy emphasis on the sky, to the point a character sees a giant eye staring down at him from the sky, and use of sunflower symbolism. If you're looking for more recs, you might be interested in this article that also includes anime and films in this genre. It contains factual errors and is written by a non-Japanese speaker (much of the most important works are untranslated or infamously translated poorly), but its a decent primer nonetheless: https://ontheones.wordpress.com/2019/06/29/on-denpa-a-guest-article-by-kenji-the-engi/
There's also a vndb page collecting more VNs: https://vndb.org/g960
imo, some of these works are incredible, but not all of them are great. Aside from the ones I mentioned, Cross Channel is supposed to be incredible, and I also loved Higurashi (the VN, not the anime) as a sort of guilty pleasure, even though that one takes time to really unfold as denpa until its second half, Kai.

[Anonymous No.18031263]

>>18031231
Different anon, but damn I wish all of the canonical Denpa works were translated and easily available because it's such an awesome genre.

[Anonymous No.18031269]

>>18021466
She was so hot.

[Anonymous No.18031332]

>>18031263
There seem to be a lot of fans who want to start translating these works, but if you don't want to bet on that, I don't think it takes years of Japanese study to read them untranslated. I recently read sayaooshiete and tsui no sora after less than a year of study; granted I'll have to reread them after more study to understand everything, but I grasped enough to have some serious conversations with people who understood these works deeply, as far as I can tell.

[Anonymous No.18031422]

>>18031231
Not that anon but I'm a fan of VNs(though I wouldn't call myself a connoisseur) and your posts are interesting, I've never checked out this genre of VNs. My favorites VNs so far have been Type-Moon's works and the Muv-Luv series, but this genre seems to be a pretty different experience compared to those, and I'd like to check it out eventually. I have heard a lot about Higurashi and it was on my reading list though I've never got around checking it out. I think it'll be the next VN I read in the future now thanks to your posts.

I'm also learning japanese so I hope I'll eventually be able to read VNs in japanese, though at the rate I'm learning it'll be several years before that, but that's fine, I knew it was gonna take a long time anyway.

[Anonymous No.18031562]

>>18031422
Tsukihime and Kagetsu Toohya actually somewhat overlap with denpa imo, specifically the parts dealing with Shiki's physical illness, the far-side routes, and the parts where Nasu's writing suddenly shifts style. ML:A also apparently deals with insanity and taboos.
If you're interested in Higurashi from this angle, I suggest you play it with the original artwork and BGM (the steam version comes with an option for the former, the latter has to be downloaded). The redone artwork and OST are significantly more "normal" as opposed to distinct, somewhat jarring quality of the original presentation.
As for reading in Japanese, I felt the same way until someone talked me into reading in spite of it. I started off not being able to understand a thing, but over time it suddenly became understandable. The key is to find works that can hold your interest that you don't mind misunderstanding. If you persevere, you'll soon find yourself where you expect yourself to be years from now. 頑張って!

[Anonymous No.18031570]

>>18020402
based, thanks

[Anonymous No.18031713]

>>18031562
>If you're interested in Higurashi from this angle, I suggest you play it with the original artwork and BGM (the steam version comes with an option for the former, the latter has to be downloaded). The redone artwork and OST are significantly more "normal" as opposed to distinct, somewhat jarring quality of the original presentation.
I could consider doing that but man, the art is really rough, people who think Tsukihime's art is bad clearly haven't seen Higurashi's original art. I'm looking at Ryuukishi07's other works and he has improved a lot over time, Ciconia in particular looks pretty good actually. I was planning on playing it with the 07th Mod since in the past I've seen several people recommend it.

>As for reading in Japanese, I felt the same way until someone talked me into reading in spite of it. I started off not being able to understand a thing, but over time it suddenly became understandable. The key is to find works that can hold your interest that you don't mind misunderstanding.
Yeah this is true, perhaps several years was an exaggeration, but I still think I need a little more experience first, right now I'm at the "struggling to read Doraemon" level, so I think if I tried to read a VN, especially something complex, I'd probably end up spending 30 minutes on each paragraph just to get a loose grasp on what is being said. Maybe I'll give it a try by the end of this year.

Anyway, thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.18031764]

>>18031713
Suit yourself, but imo the original art imbues an atmosphere that suits the weirdo youthful manic feel of the writing. Higu is very much an amateur work in the best way possible. Digressing, I just remembered that Ryukishi considered Tsukihime one of his main influences for Higu.
You probably already know this, but you can use a texthooker to help you learn Japanese as you read VNs. I started reading VNs (specifically Key VNs) with a texthooker while struggling with Yotsuba, and that leas to me being able to breeze past Yotsuba. Anyway, you'll have to trust your own pace, but don't be afraid to take a leap somewhere if you feel curious

[Anonymous No.18031923]

>>18020440
Lmao I live on MV in the summer, wish I could see this stuff

[Anonymous No.18032233]

>>18031011
>>18028823
>>18027655

[Anonymous No.18032374]

>>18031231
That’s really interesting. I’m reading about this but I’m still not exactly seeing the parallels with Yukio Mishima’s writing. In the case of something like 惡の華 it’s pretty obvious by way of mutual influences in Baudelaire but still, these are horror games, right? Maybe I just can’t get it from reading about them. I’d actually have to read them I guess? Maybe it’s something with Mishima. I know a few contemporary authors who cite him as an influenced, like Vollmann, for example, and yet when I read their books, I don’t see it anywhere. Maybe they mean the man and not his books?

[Anonymous No.18032698]

>>18031231
Thanks for the link that was a good read. please see pic related - kept getting caught in spam filter for some reason

[Anonymous No.18032714]

>>18031923
DESU, its pretty hush hush. Nantucket has always been a place for old money, and only recently has it been big for general tourism too.

[Anonymous No.18032908]

>>18032698
対魔忍アサギ is one of Japan's greatest literary achievements though.

[Anonymous No.18032961]

>>18020402
>tfw Probably less than ten percent of the worlds literature and knowledge has been written in English
>I will never know the stories of the Japanese, nor the Arabs, nor the Swedes, nor the Latins
Bros... I’m so insignificant...

[Anonymous No.18032975]

>>18031231
You seem to know a lot about the language and VNs, have you ever read Full Metal Daemon Muramasa? I've heard good things about it but I've never read it since I don't know the language and it's not translated, if you did read it, what was your opinion on it?

[Anonymous No.18033093]

>>18032374
I haven't read enough Mishima to cite a direct parallel in the texts, but I definitely feel the attitude is connected to Mishima, and that may have more to do with the man himself. The sort of imagery used in The Golden Pavillion and the protagonist's personality and development really came to mind as I was reading these VNs for the first time, however. Also, Schrader's film on Mishima felt very much in line with this genre. As for being categorized as horror, the imagery could superficially resemble horror, but the tone is much more poetic as the images are being used to express something emotional and/or psychological about the protagonist, often directly symbolizing something they've gone through. There's definitely some arbitrary shock value in these works, alongside a lot of other non-masterful qualities, but the intent nearly always doesn't feel like its meant to approach horror. The disturbing aspect comes more in the actions of the characters towards each other and the mental illnesses that result from their trauma.
>>18032698
Glad you found and are enjoying Umineko anon. It's definitely a crapshoot and Ryukishi feels like one of the handful of writers in this medium that doesn't include explicit sex in his work. If you dive deeper, as far as I know every denpa VN basically has explicit content in it, both gratuitous and genuinely disturbing content that would take someone not caring for the plot to enjoy. The length is definitely used to the advantage of some of these VNs to show an intimate, gradual, extreme almost 180 development of the characters it focuses on. There's an emphasis on mundanities that allow ethereal feelings to develop that carry over and explode at the significant moments, before they continue to last, just in a changed form. Imo one of Higurashi (the "prequel" to Umineko)'s best scenes is a repetitive description of an action that takes nearly half an hour to read, and in that time, the relationship between two characters changes just through their gradual change in demeanor. Moreover, 素晴らしき日々 directly states its intention of presenting each perspective in it as if they're each distinct melodies, and each perspective covered in the VN starts at a specific time and ends at a specific time (either days apart or weeks apart) with you experiencing everything the protagonist goes through in order to experience the melody that is their changing personalities/worldviews. Perhaps this is another similarity with Mishima; a sort of ethereal, poetic, musical quality to the text that reflects change over a period of time

[Anonymous No.18033147]

>>18033093
>both gratuitous and genuinely disturbing content that would take someone not caring for the plot to enjoy.
I thought the bestiality scene is subahibi was pretty hot

[Anonymous No.18033178]

>>18032975
Haven't read it, but I know someone with good taste who knows way more than me and keeps talking about wanting to read it. It's apparently really difficult, lengthy, and really good. It seems pretty edgy and gruesome, thanks to Gen "Butcher" Urobuchi

[Anonymous No.18033205]

>>18033147
hi sca-di

[Anonymous No.18033216]

>>18033178
Yeah I've heard it's written in a peculiar way which makes it pretty hard to read. I'm not sure if Urobuchi worked on it though, I don't see his name on the staff section in the vndb page.

I know about Hanachirasu, one of the author's previous works, that one is translated and I plan on reading it one day.

[Anonymous No.18033249]

>>18033093
>is a repetitive description of an action that takes nearly half an hour to read
THIS CHAIR

[Anonymous No.18033333]

>>18033216
Hope you enjoy Hanachirasu anon. I'd be interested to see your impressions on /lit/ sometime. Btw, I mentioned Urobuchi because he works for the same studio and his character Saya appears in Muramasa, so it seems like he influenced it

[Anonymous No.18033367]

>>18033333
Oh yeah you're right, they both worked for the same studio, and I didn't know was a character that shower up there, yeah it was probably influenced by Urobuchi in that case. Also nice quints.

[Anonymous No.18034318]

>>18020446
>tfw will never be in a homoerotic relationship with an elderly ossan and discuss Mishima
Why even live

[Anonymous No.18034331]

>>18033093
This is fascinating. I almost wish I had been a hyper-weeb when I was younger. Maybe I would’ve discovered this interesting rabbit hole for myself.

[Anonymous No.18034393]

>>18031269
She could still get it

[Anonymous No.18034418]

>>18020402
sorry im too busy reading izumi kyouka

[Anonymous No.18035495]

bump :)

[Anonymous No.18035797]

Thoughts on Inazo Nitobe? Only jap author I've ever read (and not just his popular work, "Bushido")

[Anonymous No.18036070]

>>18035797
will ask him!

[Anonymous No.18036234]

>>18032233
I'm brazilian and let me tell if we replaced all our monkeys with more Japanese this country would overnight become a paradise

[Anonymous No.18036543]

>>18034418
But none of his books are translated to English, can you read Japanese?

[Anonymous No.18036555]

>>18020402
What does ossan think of Zen Buddhism?

[Anonymous No.18037013]

>>18035797
What other works did he write?