/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18003708]

>see threads about people identifying with dmitri and alyosha
>finally read the book
>realize I am Ivan

Whoa...

[Anonymous No.18003716]

>>18003708
>identifies with Grand Inquisitor

[Anonymous No.18003740]

wow fuck you then

[Anonymous No.18003742]

>>18003716
>identifies with Jesus

[Anonymous No.18003770]

Grand inquisitor chapter was just one giant hit piece against Catholicism wasn't it...

[Anonymous No.18003793]

Ivan and the Devil was the best part of this book, though Grand Inquisitor comes close. I was less emotionally engaged than anons here led me to believe I would be, desu. I dunno how anyone cries at this, it's just generally melancholy. I will say though, Dostoevsky did manage to make me feel spiritually inquisitive, and it left a lasting impression in that regard.

[Anonymous No.18003803]

Smerdyakov also thought he was Ivan

[Anonymous No.18004049]

>tfw you realize you are a combination of Grushenka and Katerina

[Anonymous No.18004056]

>>18003803
That's the point though

Ivan thought he was Ivan too

[Anonymous No.18004100]

Im just like Smerdyakov. Intelligent, nihilistic and with a wicked sense of humor

[Anonymous No.18004279]

>>18004049
Post tits

[Anonymous No.18004308]

>>18003708
OP is a Kolya if ever I saw one.

[Anonymous No.18004314]

>>18004100
Joker (2019)

[Anonymous No.18004550]

>>18004308
>The part where he mocks his teacher for not knowing who the founder of Troy was but he doesn't actually know himself.
He's literally me.

[Anonymous No.18005438]

>>18004279
Dude, Stavrogin is in "The Devils" not Karamazov.

[Anonymous No.18005448]

>>18004279
Post dick pic first

[Anonymous No.18005907]

anyone who doesn't identify with Ivan doesn't belong to 4chan

[Anonymous No.18005939]

>>18004100
Smerdyakov was a modest who mistook his cynicism for intelligence

[Anonymous No.18005946]

>>18005939
*midwit

[Anonymous No.18006016]

daily reminder that it was all that whore Grushenka's fault

[Anonymous No.18006033]

>>18006016
Grushenka did nothing wrong though. If Papa K and Dmitri didn’t simp over her, nothing would have happened. She never actually put out either. She was one of the strongest characters morally by the end. Now, Katerina was a bitch

[Anonymous No.18006042]

>>18006033
she was taunting them the entire time until it boiled over. if she just stopped being a whore for 10 seconds it would have been fine.

[Anonymous No.18006098]

>>18003742
>>18003716
can someone explain why jesus kissed the inquisitor?

[Anonymous No.18006123]

>>18006098
isn't that Jesus's motif? he always forgives

[Anonymous No.18006134]

>>18006042
She was a flirt, not a whore and the two men lost their minds. It’s like if a driver flips off another driver and the second driver shoots the man who flipped him off. The flipper started it but the reaction isn’t justified. Grushenka just had a hustle that they both fell for. If they weren’t simps nothing would have happened either

[Anonymous No.18006146]

>>18006134
Everyone knows the both Mr Karamazov and Dmitri are clowns. They are not in control of their own actions at many times, and in fact they often act in ways that will damage them greatly. It is their nature.

Grushenka knew this but still decided to purposely push them to the edge.

[Anonymous No.18006152]

>>18006098
>hasn't read the New Testament
ngmi.
Kissing is an act of intimacy between close friends. The Grand Inquisitor hates Jesus with the heat of a thousand suns, and Jesus has every reason to return that hate. But he kisses him because he forgives him, he loves him despite all his anger and sin. From the book of Matthew, Jesus preaches
>Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.
So the Grand Inquisitor, though spiteful, cannot bring himself to hate one who loves him.

[Anonymous No.18006164]

>>18006146
There is no point in debating a fictionalized book but how was she to know that a third party would come in and kill someone? She was financially shrewd and had to look out for herself. It’s clear that in the end she has regrets over the situation so she isn’t a monster

[Anonymous No.18006190]

>>18006164
>There is no point in debating a fictionalized book
wat
> how was she to know that a third party would come in and kill someone?
She wasn't but anyone with a brain knew that messing with the Karamazov's was sure to get a bad response. She especially knew that Dmitri was liable to go into manic episodes since she had partied with him during those episodes.
>she was financially shrewd and had to look out for herself.
She had a finacial backer, that old merchant dude. She just wanted to have fun with the jester Dmitri.
> It’s clear that in the end she has regrets over the situation so she isn’t a monster
She's feeling guilt because she knows she is morally responsible.

[Anonymous No.18006219]

>>18006190
>wat
These are fictionalized 2-D characters that are borderline stock characters. It’s kind of a pointless argument

Anyway I always had a theory that Dmitri is the true hero and a christ-like figure. A reference is made to the wedding of Gallee(sp?) where the moral is that Jesus celebrated happiness and not just suffering. Dmitri is the partier who is always looking for happiness. By the end of the book, he becomes a martyr for his lifestyle, just like Jesus did for his. It would have been interesting to see where Dostoyevsky was going for in part 2. One of the biggest what-if’s in literature

[Anonymous No.18006224]

>>18006219
>These are fictionalized 2-D characters that are borderline stock characters. It’s kind of a pointless argument
You might be thicker than Smerdyakov's mother

[Anonymous No.18006228]

i identify with smerdyakov

[Anonymous No.18006243]

Anyone else nearly drive themselves insane by determinism looping through every thought

[Anonymous No.18006245]

>>18006224
They are basically the holy fool, bacchus and Bazarov- the spirit, the body, the brain. They weren’t lifelike figures at all. Real people are much more nuanced. That doesn’t mean that it makes it any less than a masterpiece

[Anonymous No.18006255]

>being the only one who identifies as Fyodor

[Anonymous No.18006256]

>>18006245
It's more the fact that because they are simple characters that makes the argument pointless? for what reason?
Certainly the idea of who is to blame must be addresses. Ivan almost died because of the guilt he felt for leading Smerdyakov astray

[Anonymous No.18006283]

>>18006256
Should we dig up the corpse of Dostoyevsky and ask him to be the judge? These are characters he created and only he would have the answers. I just think it’s pointless to point solely at Grushenka when literally every character played a part in the murder unfolding to some extent. I think the two chief ones were Dmitri and Fyodor. If you don’t, it’s no skin off my back. This is going nowhere and is unproductive so I’m out

[Anonymous No.18006392]

>>18006228
Please get to the part where you kill yourself

[Anonymous No.18006539]

>>18004049
You will never be a real woman.

[Anonymous No.18007111]

Did fyodor pavlovich actually rape lizaveta?

[Anonymous No.18007961]

>>18007111
Yeah. That's why Smerdyakov hates him so much.

[Anonymous No.18008627]

>>18006255
fyodor mikhailovich dostoevsky also identifies with fyodor

[Anonymous No.18008640]

>>18007111
>>18007961
no he didnt it was consentual and smerdyakov did not give a fuck about his mom or anything thats the point of his character

[Anonymous No.18009063]

>>18006152
>>18006098

To add, Jesus isn't going to use logic win an argument. That's what Ivan would do.

The reader leaves the chapter siding with Jesus, because his kindness and love holds more weight than intelligence and logic. There's something spiritual about compassion that touches us more than logical reasoning.

[Anonymous No.18009180]

>>18003708
If you actually see yourself in any of the characters in this book then that should be a sign that you should change some things about yourself. If you think you're Ivan you're probably not a super intelligent person, you are probably just recognizing that you're both pretentious know-it-alls. The fact you made a thread about a TBK also supports this.

[Anonymous No.18009188]

>>18006219
Wow when i came in this thread I thought op was far and away the stupidest post I would see today. Thank you for proving me wrong and killing my faith in this board.

[Anonymous No.18009198]

>>18006219
Why are you on lit if you don't want to argue about fictional characters?

[Anonymous No.18009328]

>>18009180
Ivan is a sadist who thinks he's an empath and I believe many people with masturbation addictions can relate. After living a life of reviling pedophiles and wishing them a bitter end, it is rather ironic that in the end I have become one as well.

[Anonymous No.18009369]

>>18006098
adding to what >>18009063 said, that idea is expanded by the teachings of Father Zosima. The beauty of this book is that it makes two of the most solid arguments for and against Christianity. These teachings can even apply for atheists. A love of mankind and knowing that we are all guilty before the whole world will make you a better person and is a step towards finding happiness.

[Anonymous No.18009422]

>>18006539
You will never be a real man

[Anonymous No.18010093]

>>18008640
He acts like he doesn't care, but secretly he does.

[Anonymous No.18010095]

I've been recommended this, is it worth reading? The last book she recommended was I,Claudius which I loved. I've never seen it mentioned here or anywhere else, but it seems to get good reviews.