/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17984088]

/lit/, do you know of any alternate history books about what would have happened if the american natives (native americans, Mesoamerica, the Andes aka incas and shit) successfully fended off the europeans?

The aztecs came close but they got buttfucked by tlaxcaltecas and smallpox.

[Anonymous No.17984141]

The Spanish were sent by Quetzalcoatl to reap the seeds he had sown long ago.

[Anonymous No.17984158]

>>17984088
They would have remained in the stone age until the next batch of Europeans came and civilised them.

[Anonymous No.17984189]

>>17984158
If they'd defeated the Spanish they would've captured some armor and weaponry and also horses. They seen the ships too.

[Anonymous No.17984199]

>>17984141
Based and omenpilled

[Anonymous No.17984206]

>>17984189
You dumb beaner

[Anonymous No.17984215]

>>17984088
No but I recommend Aztec by Gary Jennings for some comfy nighttime reading

[Anonymous No.17984224]

>>17984189
Not him, but horses would have been the only useful thing. Aztec society didn't even utilize the wheel (lack of beasts of burden and flat roads meant they were useless) let alone having the advanced metallurgy required to recreate steel weapons and armor. If we're assuming they used their newfound horses and dedicated the resources to learning new technology, an optimistic estimate would be that it would have been a couple centuries before they managed to recreate any of this, by which point firearms would have been the latest and greatest of warfare.

[Anonymous No.17984242]

>>17984189
Seeing a ship does not mean you can build one.
Seeing iron does not mean you can produce it.
The iron would rust well before they could reverse engineer anything.
Just having a handful of horses is not going to get you out of the stone age.
The next Europeans would have arrived a few years later and finished the job, easy.

[Anonymous No.17984250]

>>17984224
The Spanish didn't invent any of those things themselves either.

[Anonymous No.17984258]

>>17984242
Do you have access to Wikipedia? Your horizon may be broadened by the Maori Wars

[Anonymous No.17984288]

>>17984250
>>17984258
>>17984189

[Anonymous No.17984316]

>>17984258
Yeah okay buddy. So if the Brits were trading muskets for tomatoes you think they could have repelled the Spainiards. ur retarded and a waste

[Anonymous No.17984344]

>>17984189
Japanese style

[Anonymous No.17984356]

>>17984316
>So if the Brits were trading muskets for tomatoes you think they could have repelled the Spainiards.
I don't follow.

[Anonymous No.17984379]

>>17984088
Sounds to me like these people are too insecure to even entertain the question. I don't know about fend off but the Shadowrun universe has groups like the Aztecs make a comeback when their gods return and by that point their descendants reassert themselves and form a mega-corp called Asztechnology. That world has it so the Christian religion was sort of bunk and other ones were real but powerless due the Arthurian style magic leaving the world. It came back in 2020 alongside people being born as inhuman creatures out of legend. There could easily be an alternate history story where the disease didn't happen or South America went through he same militaristic competition and trade that Euros got thus causing them to advance.

[Anonymous No.17984561]

>>17984250
So? They have ready access to the technology to reproduce it. The Aztecs did not. Please pick up a book before posting on a board about literature.

[Anonymous No.17984595]

>>17984379
>too insecure to even entertain the question
It was the premise was mediocre. It would need serious alterations to have happened. That's all anyone is saying. Saying "well they saw ships and steel so they can make them" is nonsense.

[Anonymous No.17984635]

>>17984561
If the Aztecs did have access was the previous point.
>>17984595
>well they saw ships and steel so they can make them
They now know those things exist. And they defeated the Spanish, as per the premise. Think about war technology, the spread of the cannon is a good case study.

[Anonymous No.17984672]

It's a fantasy series, give it a try.

[Anonymous No.17984854]

>fend off the Spanish in their galleons
>learn from this and resist the Europeans for a couple centuries
>suddenly they show up with gunboats...

[Anonymous No.17985049]

>>17984088
>The aztecs came close but they got buttfucked by tlaxcaltecas and smallpox.
The Aztec empire was going to collapse soon, the Spaniards were just a catalyst
t. took a class about mesoamerican societies in undergrad

[Anonymous No.17985073]

>>17984088
The only way it could have happened was if the Americas had some disease as bad as smallpox which European got exposed to and took back to Europe. Honestly, it was just luck that no such disease existed (yeah, syphilis came from the Americas but it's not nearly as bad as smallpox). That would have weakened Europe immensely and would have given the Aztecs or whoever replaced them more time to catch up with the Europeans technologically.

[Anonymous No.17985104]

>>17984088
There's a very short story based on this premise that I read in a steampunk omnibus I read when I was 15, and it was about the only good story in the entire book. Not very helpful I know, but there you go

[Anonymous No.17985142]

>>17984088
>what would have happened if the american natives (native americans, Mesoamerica, the Andes aka incas and shit) successfully fended off the europeans?
literally could have never happened
>>17984189
yeah that happened in chile for instance. the spanish rulers were super gay there and instead of killing them, like we based argies did, they just negociated with them and thats why chile is full of indians and people are really mean and gross, indian traditions persisted to a greater extent, and these indian mother fuckers used to steal from us argies crossing the patagonia to buenos aires and them sell the cows to ch*leans, until ROCA absolutely beated the fuck out of them and civilized patagonia so araucanos could no longer cross it to steal kill and rape us.

[Anonymous No.17985165]

>>17984088
In the second half of Ultima by Stephen Baxter you have a alternate history in which the Incas basically became the biggest empire on Earth and now rule the entire solar system.

[Anonymous No.17985175]

>>17985073
If Europe got decimated by some smallpox-like infection the turks or some other islamic state would probably have moved in and continued where the euros left off.

[Anonymous No.17985199]

>>17984250
Didn't the indigenous iberians have advanced metallurgic techniques wrt their neighbors/region? I vaguely remember that being a big deal to the phoenicians, carthaginians, & romans

[Anonymous No.17985276]

>>17985165
so basically beaner version of we waz kangz while they didnt even know iron or the wheel

[Anonymous No.17985282]

>>17985175
Such a disease would have wrecked the Ottomans as well. Plus there was no need for the Muslim powers to go West, they had access to Asian trade already

[Anonymous No.17985292]

>>17985276
Mexicans and the like are not native American. The beaners literally won lol.

[Anonymous No.17985352]

>>17985175
At least the natives would still be alive then, because the Turks didn't try to destroy the identity and culture of every nation they conquered.

[Anonymous No.17985461]

>>17985352
>because the Turks didn't try to destroy the identity and culture of every nation they conquered.
Yeah they didn't try to destroy the culture and identity because outright genociding them was easier than assimilating

[Anonymous No.17985485]

>>17985461
That literally happened during the last 4 years of the empire. The Balkans were under Turkish control for at least 400 years but all the people there still exist and have their own religion and culture.

[Anonymous No.17985517]

>>17984854
>Implying that the Aztecs wouldn't advance
You guys really don't give others much credit do you?

[Anonymous No.17985566]

The only tribe in modern Mexico that attempted to "fend off" the Spaniards were the Aztecs. Every other tribe fought with them.

[Anonymous No.17985671]

>>17985566
>The only tribe in modern Mexico that attempted to "fend off" the Spaniards were the Aztecs. Every other tribe fought with them.

>Zacatecos
>Guachichiles
>Pames
>Guamares
>Caxcanes
>Mayans
>Tarascans
>Puebloans
>Comanches
>Yaquis
>Apaches
>Xiximes
All of these ppl above fought agaisnt spain and even won in some cases (chichimecan tribes)

[Anonymous No.17985683]

>>17984088
I know a comic book (I think it was from France or Spain?) where the Natives discover Europe rather than the other way around.

[Anonymous No.17985710]

>>17985566
>modern Mexico
Mexico didn't even exist back then. Mexico as a nation started in the early 1800s. The Aztecs were not Mexicans.

[Anonymous No.17985731]

>>17985710
I was referring to the geographic area you fucking moron

[Anonymous No.17985736]

>>17985710
>The Aztecs were not Mexicans.
The aztecs literally called themselves "Mexikah" you fucking mongoloid. Where do you think the name Mexico comes from?

[Anonymous No.17985759]

/his/ levels of cringe here

[Anonymous No.17985767]

>>17985731
That's Mesoamerica, not Mexico.
>>17985736
Meshica=/=Mexican. I understand where the name comes from but those are different things.

[Anonymous No.17985809]

>>17985767
Most mexicans are about 20-70% native so does it really matter? not to mention that mexico still has tens of millions of pureblooded natives

[Anonymous No.17985839]

>>17985809
Not every Mexican has Aztec blood. And Aztecs are not the only native group that exists. There are lots of other natives. So yes, it does matter. Meshica=/=Mexican. Not sure how that is a controversial statement.

[Anonymous No.17985862]

>>17985839
>So yes, it does matter. Meshica=/=Mexican
So what should they call their country?

[Anonymous No.17985866]

>>17985809
the aztecs were genocided. modern mexicand descend of other tribes and spaniards.

[Anonymous No.17985926]

>>17985862
The name is fine. It's your assumption that every Mexican has Aztec blood that is wrong. Just to illustrate this, not every person from Canada, Milwaukee, Ohio, Hawaii, Nebraska, Minnesota, etc has blood from the people whose language was used to name those places. We're past the point where names of places accurately reflect the population, especially in the New World.

[Anonymous No.17985954]

>>17985926
>We're past the point where names of places accurately reflect the population, especially in the New World.
This is something that i've always hated about new world nations, here in the old world our regions relfect our identity and language/dialect (in most cases)
Someone from Skane is going to have a different dialect from a stockholmer, a valencian might indentify himself more with valencian indentity rather than castillian spanish, an alsatian german feels more in touch with other germans than with the average parisian frenchie

[Anonymous No.17986002]

>>17985954
I mean, even in the Old World things aren't going so well. Example, an Arab can be French, a Jew can be Spanish, a Negro can be British. Even a supposed conservative like Boris Johnson has paid a great amount of money out of the tax payer's pocket to import millions of immigrants from China and calling them British (pretty much rendering the anti-immigrant argument of Brexit meaningless). Europe is an ideological mess.

[Anonymous No.17986028]

>>17985292
>Mexicans and the like are not native American
>we wuz white n sheit
stop the cope, it's geting more an more embarassing

[Anonymous No.17986045]

>>17986028
They aren't? They are a mix of native and spaniard

[Anonymous No.17986076]

>>17986002
That is in big cities mostly, and big cities have always been full of immigrants, even before all these refugee crisis, for example, not too long ago france was flooded with millions of southern european migrants, not too mention all the slavs that came later

[Anonymous No.17986092]

>>17984088
>/lit/, do you know of any alternate history books about what would have happened if the american natives (native americans, Mesoamerica, the Andes aka incas and shit) successfully fended off the europeans?
The Incas would have conquered the Aztecs, since the Aztecs were in decadence and the Inca's empire was rising to its golden age (for instance, look at the wiki periods of both civilizations). The Spaniards came just in time, after the greatest warrios from america were at their best and just before the Incas had stratified the south cone.

[Anonymous No.17986107]

>>17984088

Orson Scott Card wrote a book about time travelers go back to pre-contact Mesoamerica and perform a mock crucifixion. When Columbus arrives, the natives already have their own Christian religion so no one gets genocided.

I don't know if it's good or not -- read it from the library like 20 years ago and had no idea it was a Mormon allegory.

[Anonymous No.17986115]

>>17984088
It’s not exactly what you are asking for, but The Years of Rice and Salt is an alternative history where Europe gets totally annihilated by the plague in the 1340s, and history otherwise proceeds.

For at least some part of it Native Americans form a sort of united political federation and become a significant power. AFAIK at least some of South American gets colonized by Muslims but I don’t want to spoil too much.

It won the Locus Award for best sci fi novel when it came out too, so it’s not a total hack work

[Anonymous No.17986135]

>>17986092
Unlikely as the Aztecs were at their peak when the Spaniards arrived and Incas were far away in South America.

[Anonymous No.17986148]

>>17986135
Everyone hated the Aztecs, if the Incas challenged them the neighbors of the Aztecs would have joined in on the fun like they joined the conquistadors against the Aztecs.

[Anonymous No.17987317]

>>17984189
Thank fuck my ancestor, Hernán Cortés, killed you fucking beaners of the Americas

[Anonymous No.17987349]

>>17987317
Our* ancestor

[Anonymous No.17987392]

>>17987349
I'm Portuguese. (thank God)

[Anonymous No.17987401]

>>17987392
>Portuguese
what's that? like geese that live at sea ports?

[Anonymous No.17987410]

>>17987401
very humorous

[Anonymous No.17987447]

>>17984088
Why do you want to waste time with what didn't happen? Go read Open Veins of Latin American instead.

[Anonymous No.17987460]

>>17987349
Don't know why the jannies deleted my comment.
Anyways, for posterity, I said that I'm the descendent of Hernán Cortés and was very happy that something happened in the Americas during the late XVI and early XVII century

[Anonymous No.17987473]

>>17987460
>Don't know why the jannies deleted my comment.
Racism.

[Anonymous No.17987480]

>>17984088
Reminds me of when I played Crusader Kings with all DLCs and the fucking aztecs kidnapped and killed me in Sweden.

Anyway fuck the aztecs but their religion and philosophy was cool.

[Anonymous No.17987497]

>>17987473
I suppose
~
To respond to OP, check this video, it's the only thing that I could think of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52yu6hA_k2Y

[Anonymous No.17987504]

>>17984088
The Aztecs were giga based. Read Bataille.

[Anonymous No.17987549]

>>17987497
He sounds like he never touched a woman in his entire life
The absolute state of historycels

[Anonymous No.17987782]

>>17984189
This is what happens when people get their history from paradox games.

[Anonymous No.17988747]

>>17987504
Bataille's account on the Aztecs is based on pulp french theory about "Connan the Azteca" and "The Lord of the Gold: The Dorado's Fellowship".

[Anonymous No.17989134]

>>17984088
Here you have anon, the exact answer to your request.