/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17980922]

Which platonic dialogues are essential to read before The Republic?

[Anonymous No.17980986]

anybody got Plato charts/reading orders?

[Anonymous No.17981019]

>>17980986
Yeah, a chart would be nice.

[Anonymous No.17981102]

>>17980922
I remember reading somewhere on this board that it was Gorgias, Protagoras, Euthyphro, Apology, Crito and Phaedo were a good backbone before starting the Republic
I don't know yet myself, because I'm only halfway through Gorgias at the moment

[Anonymous No.17981119]

>>17980922
Definitely Meno. Pay attention to the problem of teaching virtue as a central political issue. It's essential to understand what Plato's politics are striving for.

[Anonymous No.17981123]

>>17981102
I hope you don't mean in that order. Apology or Euthyphro are the best starting points.

[Anonymous No.17981145]

>>17980922
0 because Socrates is a hack child molester

[Anonymous No.17981148]

>>17981102
>>17981119
Would like to add Phaedrus, since the dialogue itself follows a very similar structure: digression into rational argument into mythical argument.

But if you only read one dialogue in this thread, OP, read Gorgias. I'm told it's like the Republic without the politics.

[Anonymous No.17981177]

The republic seems self contained to me.

[Anonymous No.17981185]

I'm OP. I'll clarify what I've already read:
Apology, Euthyphro, Crito, Phaedo, Meno, Gorgias, Protagoras, and Symposium.

[Anonymous No.17981215]

>>17981185
You are basically good to read the Republic then OP. If you really wanted to, you could read the Phaedrus, but if you understood all those dialogues you're set.

[Anonymous No.17981246]

>>17981123
I might try those instead. I've been reading Herodotus for the last while, so its not like I've been particularly vigilant with Plato in the last month or so

[Anonymous No.17981251]

>>17980922
gorgias for example is great because the replies when socrates BTFOs them are always hilarious
>At your age, Socrates, are you not ashamed to be catching at words and chuckling over some verbal slip?

[Anonymous No.17981355]

>>17981177
It is. At most, Plato references the greek myths and verses from the Illiad, you don't really need anything else but to pay attention.

[Anonymous No.17981380]

In the Neoplatonic academies this is how you studied Plato. First some lectures on Plato's life. Followed by 10 questions that were to be answered.
>1 What sort of philosophy is found in Plato?
>2 Why did Plato believe it was his duty to write down his philosophy?
>3 Why did he employ a literary form in his dialogues?
>4 What are the elements of the dialogues?
>5 What is the source of the titles of the dialogues?
>6 What is the principle of division of the dialogues?
>7 In what manner ar the topics of the dialogues introduced?
>8 What are the criteria for determining the aim of the dialogues?
>9 What is the order of the dialogues?
>10 What is the manner of teaching in the dialogues?

After that these dialogues were read in this order: Alcibiades I, Gorgias, Phaedo, Cratylus, Theaetetus, Sophist, Statesman, Phaedrus, Symposium, Philebus, Timaeus, Parmenides.

Yes, The Republic was not included in the syllabus.

[Anonymous No.17981558]

>>17981380
Source?

[Anonymous No.17981577]

>>17980922
Literally the only thing the Greeks did worth a shit was sculpting and the Jews wrecked that shit when they instigated that faggotry known as the Peloponesian Wars or whatever. Read the Iliad, realize how fucked up that shit is, and then leave those faggots alone.

[Anonymous No.17981580]

>>17981380
How are you gonna answer those questions without reading the dialogues first

[Anonymous No.17981602]

>>17980922
I'm reading the republic right now and it's the first work of philosophy i approach, am i doing something wrong?

[Anonymous No.17981619]

>>17981558
It's Iamblichus' curriculum which you can find by googling it. In which of his works he specifically wrote it down? I don't know. I first learned about it in "Neoplatonic Philosophy: Introductory Readings" by Lloyd Gerson.
>>17981580
You'd be taught and discuss them in class with the teacher.

[Anonymous No.17982166]

>>17981602
I did the same thing, and while not necessarily wrong, its very helpful to read through at least the trial and death of socrates sequence before diving into the Republic. Sadler's guide to self studying plato on youtube is a good resource, he lists a sequence of dialogues you can follow that includes the Republic.

[Anonymous No.17983048]

>>17980922

None, it stands well on its own and you can read it cold, that's why it's assigned to college freshmen.

>>17980986
>>17981019

The traditional thing is trial and death of socrates, Euthyphro/Apology/Crito/Phadeo. People have been trying to put Plato in chronological order forever for natural and autistic reasons, but this carries its own problems. As the Hackett edition explains in the intro, it's perhaps better to use a grouping of nine groups-of-four, for a body of 36 main pieces. Stuff like Laws and Republic is generally regarded as being later, but if you're trying to autistically read Plato chronologically you'll fail. It's better to repair to tradition, to keep sane, and then take your own readings and compare them with what has gone before, both from historical and philosophical grounds.

[Anonymous No.17983206]

Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Meno, Phaedo

[Anonymous No.17983222]

>>17980922
Just get complete works and read them all

[Anonymous No.17983309]

>>17980922
It would help to have some grounding in what Plato means by forms. I'd read Phaedo (and you may as well read the rest of the Trial and Death of Socrates first), Symposium and Phaedrus first, possibly Meno.

You can really just jump right in, though

[PERSEY UBOMPA, THE INFAMOUS OU(...) No.17983313]

>>17980922
PLATO WAS A PROUD NIGGER, KNEEL /LIT/, KNEEL

[Anonymous No.17983381]

No one posted this yet?

[Anonymous No.17983605]

>>17981580
kek

[Anonymous No.17983627]

Nietzsche. He refuted all of Plato.

[Anonymous No.17983636]

>>17981145
Not condoning it but that was a pretty common thing in Athens

[Anonymous No.17984321]

>>17983627
Nietzsche is not a platonic dialogue.

[Anonymous No.17984360]

>>17981119
>Teaching virtue is hard because people won't listen
>Solution to this is to create a society where people are put into inescapable classes that are trained to specifically to fulfill a specific role in society

He didn't think this one through, did he?

[Anonymous No.17984520]

>>17983636
damn greeks and their luscious boipucci