/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17977369]

My man really wanted to die in a war huh?

[Anonymous No.17977376]

>>17977369
It's the only glorious way to die

[Anonymous No.17977401]

>>17977376
Since you're already delusional can't you just invent a ritual which makes suicide glorious and then kill yourself?

[Anonymous No.17977424]

>>17977401
The nips already did that.

[Anonymous No.17977489]

>>17977401
Yeah that's literally what he did nigga.

[Anonymous No.17977560]

yeah he was a shut-in and frequently sick as a child and so he became disgusted with the weakness and decadence that was most evident in his own body, thus vitalism and strength became subjects of fixation for him. He didn't want to grow old and weak, he would rather die at the height of his vitality.

[Anonymous No.17977590]

>>17977560
Pretty respectable outlook desu, especially since he actually went through with it.

[Anonymous No.17977596]

>>17977590
I don't really look up to people who kill themselves but sure

[Anonymous No.17977604]

His death was a lot better than dying in any war if you ask me.

[Anonymous No.17977603]

>>17977596
But I do :)

[Anonymous No.17977669]

>>17977596
Well he wasn’t killing himself out of despair or because he’s a tranny that hates his existence, but because of his romantic notions and he thought it’d be aesthetic. Feel free to call him naive or stupid but it’s not equatable with a normal suicide.

I’d encourage you to read Sun and Steel. Even if you don’t agree with him it’s an interesting read, short you could finish it in a day or two, and it’s easy enough to find for free on the internet.

[Anonymous No.17977687]

Not necessarily a war, just dying for something

[Anonymous No.17977690]

>>17977369
he pussied out after getting drafted and pretended he was seriously ill or something lmao at this faggot

[Anonymous No.17977696]

>>17977669
Every time I see this photo I think that his headband dangles are part of his neck and that he just has the gnarliest neck

[Anonymous No.17977759]

>>17977690
Not true, he was sick when he came in for his physical and they misdiagnosed him with TB and wrote him off as unfit for service.

[Anonymous No.17977771]

>>17977669
>Well he wasn’t killing himself out of despair or because he’s a tranny that hates his existence
I’m almost certain there was some of that too.

[Anonymous No.17977890]

>>17977669
>I’d encourage you to read Sun and Steel. Even if you don’t agree with him it’s an interesting read, short you could finish it in a day or two, and it’s easy enough to find for free on the internet.
It's a complete waste of time to read Mishima in translation. It takes years of learning Japanese to actually read him.

[Anonymous No.17977893]

>>17977890
i won't be doing that.

[Anonymous No.17977905]

>>17977669
yeah I don't really care to differentiate between "killing yourself out of despair" and "killing yourself because it's epic" sorry

[Anonymous No.17977991]

>>17977401
>>17977560
Delicate wallflowers like you are why all the excitement in life has been relegated to fantasy novels and movies.

[Anonymous No.17978050]

>>17977991
I mean it's all very romantic but you'll grow out of it eventually

[Anonymous No.17978075]

>>17978050
Your acceptance of your pitiful state of existence isn't maturity, it's willful ignorance.

[Anonymous No.17978156]

>>17977369
and get fucked in the ass

[Anonymous No.17978185]

>>17978075
your rejection of the pitiful state of existence and escape into romanticism is nihilism

[Anonymous No.17978207]

>>17977369
Glory, as anyone knows, is bitter stuff.

[Anonymous No.17978428]

>>17978185
What "romanticism"? Are you saying that humans can't be bred to be more beautiful than mere desk jockeys and lab rats, and that everything in art has always been nothing more than fantasy? Are you saying no one has ever lived and died gloriously, on their own terms? That no one has ever been strong and free enough to do that? I pity you, if that's the case. Life has become fantasy to you — that's how alienated from yourself, how pathetic you've become.

Life offers so much more than what can be found in the modern urban landscape. Humans are malleable: we can be shaped to believe in anything, to become passionate for anything. Physiologically and cognitively, we are devastating when we are nurtured to be, free to be, determined to be. We've built and destroyed empires, we've become geniuses and masterminds, we've conquered arts of our own creation and lived out the most exotic adventures that even movies have yet to hear of. We've experienced the greatest joys, horrors and sorrows of any animal on earth and have produced the most refined images and melodies as a result. We invented the very notion of the story, it is a notion completely unique to us, like music. So do you REALLY think that this democratic shithole of a world full of obese and wimpy fucking retards that we keep alive thanks to endless pills is all there is or can be?

This world that we live in is the result of POOR MANAGEMENT and nothing else. It is not what life is about. It doesn't do justice to life. It is a shit heap, with nothing inspiring about it or to look forward to in it. People are driven for nothing other than their own small and petty comfort and consider every other drive to be a matter of mere fantasy like you do. The world will only become more congested, grayer, and uglier thanks to your type, which is the common (read: mediocre, shallow, cowardly) type.

[Anonymous No.17978449]

>>17977669
He literally lived and died by Bushido. It's a ethos that literally can not fit in any postwar ideology.

[Anonymous No.17978455]

>>17977690
He actually made that up as it was les shameful than the truth. He barely passed his physical tests and the test takers made fun of him

[Anonymous No.17978590]

>>17978428
This is sentimental romantic nihilism, you are an alienated 'last man' in posthistory. A completely ahistorical worldview where mythos reigns over logos. Symptoms of an adolescent mind. You mourn the loss of Time while I laugh in Eternity. In modern meme parlance this is quite literally the difference between us.

[Anonymous No.17978596]

>>17977369
>>17977669
>>17977759
>>17978156
>>17978207
>>17978428
>>17978449

[Anonymous No.17978693]

>>17977376
the ultimate cuck. you die for some rich faggot so they can own more horses or foreskins or whatever bullshit rich people are into these days

[Anonymous No.17978713]

>>17978207
that was such a beatiful and gloom ending for a book anon... fuck.
>>17978596
I don't know any of these faggots beside Mishima and foucault. Go end your life retard

[Anonymous No.17978722]

>>17978713
baldwin, lorde, butler, sullivan, murray

[Anonymous No.17978731]

>>17977905
wtf but theyre so different :00

[Anonymous No.17978755]

>>17977590
The whole fiasco leading to his death was laughable.

>This act of seppuku - the ritual suicide of a samurai warrior - did not go to plan. Mishima failed to disembowel himself cleanly and his cohort's hands were shaking so much that he could not chop off his master's head in one blow. The author, who had been tipped for a Nobel prize, died an agonizing death.

[Anonymous No.17979006]

>>17977669
the guy had a severe peter pan complex as he didn't want to grow old.

his romantic notions are quixotic at best. it's worse than normal suicide. normal suicide is despair and people not making rational decisions. mishima's death was from him digging in his derangement, and being so deep in it, reality was long gone from his mind. the guy was mad and there wasn't going to be any talking sense to him.

[Anonymous No.17979108]

>>17978755
And I bet he enjoyed every moment of it.

[Anonymous No.17979130]

>>17978693
The secret of happiness is to see all the marvels of the world, and never forget the drops of oil in the spoon.

At least you got the second part down.

[Anonymous No.17979133]

>>17978755
Such an irrelevant detail. How you could think that changes anything is beyond me.

[Anonymous No.17979142]

>>17979006
How is reclaiming your right not only over your destiny, but over death, which is one of the few thing certains in human existence, worse than killing yourself because you're a weak faggot that couldn't stand being sad? I don't get it

[Anonymous No.17979188]

>>17978693
Not everyone is american here you know

[Anonymous No.17979657]

>>17979142
when you kill yourself you're not claiming any right to anything. it's simply an exit strategy out of despair or severe confusion. i do consider ritual suicide to be severe confusion.

dying is easy. living is harder.

[Anonymous No.17979815]

Say what you want about suicide/seppuku...but half a century after we're all dead, how many people are going to be talking about our deaths (let alone how they represent our personal ethos and/or anything we created with our lives)?

[Plotinus No.17979856]

>>17977771
This. Man was a whole fruitcake. Part of the reason I like him.

[Anonymous No.17979966]

>>17979657
This seems like a you problem, anon

[Anonymous No.17979992]

>>17979657
When you kill yourself because you've consciously decided to do so -not because of any external factors, but because you've simply chosen to- is to reclaim right over your destiny, why do you think its called taking YOUR OWN life?
When you kill yourself because you can't bear with the sadness or absurdity of being alive, you are letting the world dominate you.
When you kill yourself because you wanted to give you death yourself, and not something like the sickness that comes when you get old, you are dominating the world and your destiny.
Now tell me, anon. When you're doing something fun, is continuing to do it harder than to stop doing so?
Killing yourself in the peak of your life is the greatest act of willpower there can be.
Also I don't condone suicide.

[Anonymous No.17980018]

>>17979006
>the guy had a severe peter pan complex as he didn't want to grow old.
>his romantic notions are quixotic at best. it's worse than normal suicide. normal suicide is despair and people not making rational decisions. mishima's death was from him digging in his derangement, and being so deep in it, reality was long gone from his mind. the guy was mad and there wasn't going to be any talking sense to him.

[Anonymous No.17980049]

>>17979657
Behold the result of the dysgenic experiment we call the modern west.

[Anonymous No.17980077]

>>17980049
I bet he also thinks that surrender is better than death in literally all cases

[Anonymous No.17980976]

>>17977890
>It's a complete waste of time to read Mishima in translation
lol shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.17981000]

>>17978449
Bushido literally IS a postwar ideology. It was basically invented by DT Suzuki and his ilk in the 40s IIRC

[Anonymous No.17981053]

>>17981000
Bushido was invoked in the IJA, though. Am I mistaken?

[Anonymous No.17981067]

>>17981053
I might be mistaken too. I mean the the word was used before that, but just as a generic word.

[Anonymous No.17981334]

>>17977369
You're a nigger. You're such a nigger that your niggerness exists beyond material, your spirit is that of a pure blood untouched nigger. Your spiritual nigger lineage is so pure and ancient that it can be traced back to pre-human homindis. You completely lack sapience, your black hands hit random keys on your black keyboard and by some unholy coincidence you type such a niggery post and post it. You have never read even a single sentence written by Mishima, you can't even read. You're an illiterate nigger. He literally did NOT want to die in a war, in fact he didn't want to die so much he faked illness -though he WAS sick at the time, not enough to avoid his service though- he explains this in detail, his weird relationship with death is the entire fucking point. You're a dumb gorilla nigger. Fuck you nigger

[Anonymous No.17981569]

>>17981000
Dilate

[Anonymous No.17981864]

Mishima drew heavily on Hagakure by Yamamoto Tsunetomo, who wrote the work in exile after the death of his lord in . Hagakure is part philosophical meditation and part didactic manual on the ideal of Bushido and Samurai lifestyle. It emphasises a constant awareness and even preference of death over life as a tool to facilitate the subjugation of oneself completely to the will of one's lord. Many bleak and sweeping proclamations on death and willingness to die can be found in this text, and it seems clear that they gave Mishima a big fat drama boner. Tsunetomo himself never saw combat in his entire life, much like all Samurai of his era, and worked as a scribe. Bushido, even for Tsunetomo, was only a philosophical abstraction, and a fantasy projected on to an idealised past. Tsunetomo himself lived a peaceful life under a considerate master, Nabeshima Mitsushige, who ironically was so opposed to pointless death that he forbade his retainers from committing suicide in the traditional way upon the death of their master. As a result, Tsunetomo spent his old age in a monastery in exile, and from his hermitage, the sayings and conversations that would become Hagakure were collected.

Tl;DR, Bushido didn't real; even the seminal historical idealisation of it by which Mishima was inspired, was itself produced by a scribe who never saw combat. Mishima was a dreamer and killing himself was a way to live out his dream.

[Anonymous No.17982504]

>>17981864
>Mishima was a dreamer and killing himself was a way to live out his dream.
Whats wrong with that?

[Anonymous No.17982850]

>>17982504

Just my two cents Anon ;)

There is a certain sort of person who gets attached to authors like Mishima, for their hardline aggressive 'I'm ok, you're not ok' stance on society and ethics, the romanticisation of a non-existent past can quickly become a way of justifying a hatred of the present for not living up to an impossible standard. Not only that, I recently read Hagakure after finishing Shigurui and found the context and the author's life very interesting. It's a thoughtful text and to me speaks of a very sage and mindful individual.

[Anonymous No.17982865]

>>17981334
trying too hard

[Anonymous No.17982894]

>>17982850
Just sharing my perspective but I think it’s necessary to be hardline for life and Mishima (as well as sky king) exemplified this. We have this brief existence and then we die. That’s it. Most in the modern world respond to this fact by ignoring it. Mishima didn’t. He took a radical approach. The thing about Mishima is he seems to me very self critical in his writing. I’d point you to Sun and Steel or Sailor that Fell from Grace where he’s supposed to be symbolized by the demonic little boy. Point being I’m sure he questioned himself all along the way and was well aware about whatever falseness was associated with bushido. He came to the conclusion however that even so he’d rather live his life sharpened by death rather then dulled like the rest of us. You don’t have to agree with that but I think it’s worthy of some sort of respect.

[Anonymous No.17982905]

>>17977369
>My man really wanted to die in a war
That's what every man worth his fucking balls should feel.

[Anonymous No.17982923]

>>17977669
>romantic notions and he thought it’d be aesthetic
Imagine being this stupid.

[Anonymous No.17982940]

>>17979006
>>17977905
>suicide is only done by deranged people
No, you are nihilist cowards, too pacified and domesticated to take your very own life into your very own hands. You want anything and everything else, whether it be nature or society, to make the ultimate decisions concerning your very own life for you. None of you will ever have a better understanding of life and death than Mishima; and this is not asserting that Mishima was totally flawless or omniscient, or free from passion. This is asserting that you are blind sleepwalkers who will never truly live the extremities of life and death. You will continue sleepwalking until your life is snatched away, whether in your sleep, in a car accident, or from cancer.

[Anonymous No.17982964]

>>17978693
sorry bro, america (and probably some european countries) are the only countries willing to send their young to die for the jews, not everyone is like this though

[Anonymous No.17983022]

>>17979006
I'm sure he was aware:

"Nothing is that can satify me;
Earthly novelty is too soon dulled;
I am drawn higher and higher, more unstable,
Closer and closer to the sun's effulgence."

My boy would've loved Ian Curtis, who also died for his art.
Aesthetics are the last vestiges of spirituality for the godless. And Mishima was a man looking for God, for transcendent emotions beyond the reach of normal men.
Also, was the ending of the Sea of Fertility a clever way to say that the modern Japanese State betrayed all the men who died for the Emperor in WWII? He is forgotten, like that.

[Anonymous No.17983039]

I think Yukio Mishima was the most interesting right-wing nationalist artist who ever lived and my politics are the complete opposite of his. I think he had a lot of insights about the power of aesthetics and glory and self-sacrifice as being things that can inspire people, but I wouldn't choose to copy his individualistic Fuhrerprinzip thing where you stand up and yell at soldiers to follow you, because that's how it works? I don't think it works that way.

I think it's more like...

https://youtu.be/kZKnOCY32hg

It's more Catholic, or something.

>>17977905
>I don't really care to differentiate between "killing yourself out of despair" and "killing yourself because it's epic"
How about killing yourself by sheer accident but in an epic way?

[Anonymous No.17983054]

>>17977369
who doesnt?

[Anonymous No.17983131]

>>17983022
>Also, was the ending of the Sea of Fertility a clever way to say that the modern Japanese State betrayed all the men who died for the Emperor in WWII? He is forgotten, like that.
He thought the modern Japanese state was cucked, yeah, and he wasn't wrong about that. But the twist here is that the most cucked people in Japan are the right-wing ultranationalists. It's like a costume LARP for protesting the Russian, South Korean and Chinese embassies... but not the American embassy so much. But that's why they're so cucked, they're dependent on America, and their defeat at the hands of America is the source of their predicament. They can't break out of it.

The socialist politician who was assassinated by that young right-wing nationalist back in the 1960s? That socialist was opposed to the U.S. military presence, it was his whole thing, and it was probably why he was killed. The nationalist youth are excellent patsies for that kind of dirty work because they delude themselves into thinking that their actions are against the grain, but they have this individualistic mindset where it's about their own glory, they have trouble seeing beyond their own limited horizon.

I think that was Mishima's problem too. He wanted to live for something greater, or die for something greater, but it was still all about himself at the end of the day -- and that's ultimately makes him a selfish and really extreme narcissist. That's why those soldiers laughed at him. But what did he expect? Like, you're just gonna go yell at people for being cucked bitches and expect them to follow you? It's like, no, dude.

https://youtu.be/0hIMfJs5s8E?t=161

[Anonymous No.17983254]

>>17983131
>It's like, no, dude.
Stopped reading there.

[Anonymous No.17983384]

>>17983254
>stopped reading at the end of the post
okay?

[Anonymous No.17983509]

What is the point of incorporating philosophical thought into fiction and writing long paragraphs about what he thinks is the meaning of a flower or a sword or whatever? He can just tell the story instead of being a fag

[Anonymous No.17983517]

>>17983509
>What is the point of incorporating philosophical thought into fiction and writing long paragraphs about what he thinks is the meaning of a flower or a sword or whatever?

lol

[Anonymous No.17983719]

he just didn't want to die in a hospital of old age/some lame illness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLGMm6c_BCA

[Anonymous No.17983778]

>>17983054
SEXSEXSEX

[Anonymous No.17983783]

>>17979006
Such a shit take imo.

Man. I dunno about much these days. I reckon its good when people believe things though, it makes life interesting and feel meaningful, and I think its a fair call when people feel like they need to use violence to defend their right to believe what they want and their way of life. Whatever. I think it's true that its better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

[Anonymous No.17984624]

>>17983719
Who does?

[Anonymous No.17984679]

>>17978722
>>17978596
yah its because one of those faggots was based and the others were cringe. if the above expressed their faggotry in a based way, they would thusly be more based.

(i dont mind Foucault tho)

[Anonymous No.17984689]

>>17979133
dont worry, they i ironically only care about petty things like that.

[Anonymous No.17984715]

>>17978693
No. You die for yourself, the rich people just also happen to benefit. Besides, the good war hallows any cause.

[Anonymous No.17984722]

>>17983131
yes, but you are thinking in a strong bipartisan fashion. how is going the other direction any better? at least the narritivd they create is a epic one rather than a thoroughly detached and bland one.

Not to mention your whole thesis applied to any “youth group” like any disgruntled disenfranchised student left or right.

[Anonymous No.17984737]

>>17977369
>speak like a nigger
>clearly never read Mishima
Everytime. What compels you people to play at literacy?