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/lit/ - Literature

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17972225 No.17972225 [Reply] [Original]

Leftists today universally believe that the gender binary of male & female was enforced by European colonialism and didn’t exist before then. Are there any books that detail how this happened? I want to learn more about this because I’ve never heard of this until recent years

>> No.17972230

>>17972225
Obviously nobody believes that.

>> No.17972249

>>17972225
There were/are some "third genders" in certain indigenous north and central american cultures. But also >>17972230

>> No.17972285

Only the Judeo- Christian religion made an important differentiation between arbitrary categories of "male" and "female." Traditional and pagan religions saw people in terms of spirits and souls, ungendered, immaterial, reflections of the almighty. It is the capitalist Christian framework that seeks to divide people along these arbitrary lines so they can be prevented from organizing and demanding their share of labor. For instance, people who reject this artifical binary often don't work at all. This is what the capitalists want to avoid. Tribal sages know that wisdom comes from uniting opposites, not separating them and living out partial lives, as slaves for Global Capital.

>> No.17972294

>>17972225
>Leftists today universally believe that the gender binary of male & female
Virtually everyone living in the US is a "leftist." Belief in constitutional rights, guaranteed freedoms, limited government, separation of church and state, etc. are all left ideas.
What planet are you from where you think anyone that believes in the above ideas to any extent is right-wing?

>> No.17972304

>>17972225
>the gender binary of male & female was enforced by European colonialism and didn’t exist before then.
This is called progress.

>> No.17972305

>>17972285
LOL. Sure buddy. I assure you vikings knew the difference between men and women when they raided coastlines and raped women. After killing the men.

>> No.17972319

>>17972305
They frequently raped ""men""" too. Sex is about power, both ""men""" and ""women"" can be victimized.

>> No.17972320

>>17972294
Most Americans are retarded and don't realise that America IS the greatest expression of liberalism ever

>> No.17972324

>>17972285
what is the essential quala of christianity that caused this then in your system of interpretation?
Seeing as how there are gendered words in a lot of indo-europeran and gender roles in times past seemed stricter as a general rule.

>> No.17972327

>>17972294
Is anarcho-capitalism leftwing?

>> No.17972333

>>17972319
No, actually, they killed the men and took the women. You will never be a woman.
Women have had different roles since before civilization was a thing. Everyone knew there was a distinct difference. Tranny.

>> No.17972352

>>17972324
The book of Genesis

>>17972333
They took people in ""female""" bodies and killed people in ""male"" bodies. In 2021 this distinction isn't important anymore.

>> No.17972382

I think it is interesting that the moving of traditional gender roles outside of the genders that have them is always a sign of impending collapse, although as a symptom or cause is hard to say. It happened ot the Greek and Romans several times, and it happened in china and japan and every other long-lasting civilization to have recorded history, and those only written about by others. The second a civilization starts having widespread tolerated or accepted homosexuality, it falls in on itself, and there is a long historical record to back this up. Just food for thought.

>> No.17972395

>>17972225
Its a capitalist plot to grind down humans into docile pink haired mass of ideologically compliant consumer sludge. Just take a look at any queers they arent happy liberated individuals but mentally ill conformist cattle who all spout the same party line regardless of their 'identity'.

>> No.17972405

>>17972352
>people in ""female""" bodies
In short, women.

>people in ""male"" bodies
In short, men.

>> No.17972407

>>17972352
...Really? wouldnt that be a Abrahamic thing in general then? also im pretty sure a lot of other cultures have a male-female dichotomy original duo too.

>> No.17972443

>>17972395
Capitalists love mentally ill drug addicted fragile snowflakes. They make great workers and provide a lot of value to the economy as a whole. That is why America became so rich in the first place, because everyone was a completely crazy, infertile, antisocial weirdo. Those people really are the backbone of a productive economy.

>> No.17972453

>>17972443
They don't make good workers, they make good buyers. Barely anything but food is made in America anymore, only moved through and sold.

>> No.17972471

>>17972285
In all societies men and women are clearly distinct and fill certain roles...only the maggots that live on societies rot believe otherwise

>> No.17972509

>>17972249
not just in north america.

>> No.17972513

>>17972453
Not really. Are they buying houses? New cars? Expensive clothes? No. They buy iphones, drugs, and tattoos. Productive people with money are good consumers. Dregs are not.

>> No.17972530

>>17972285
Lol

>> No.17972535

>>17972294
>are all left ideas.
Liberalism is right wing since it’s all about upholding capitalism.

>> No.17972540

>>17972443

100%. Country is the cast off refuse of Europe. We work day in and day out to give the Euros an incredibly luxurious and work free lifestyle. Idk why I'm not taking advantage of my German passport and getting the fuck out.

>> No.17972542

>>17972225
I'm NB and I don't believe that

>> No.17972543

>>17972352
This shit has got to be bait.

>> No.17972549

>>17972542
why

>> No.17972555

>>17972294
You described Liberalism, my friend.

Nice try, though. Yikes.

>> No.17972556

>>17972549
which part

>> No.17972664

>>17972556
are you non binary

>> No.17972672

>>17972664
why*

>> No.17972690

>>17972225
>Leftists today universally believe that the gender binary of male & female was enforced by European colonialism and didn’t exist before then.
Im a marxist, dont believe this. im a TERF as well actually

>> No.17972707

>>17972285
this is dumb retarded

>> No.17972727

Literally no one believes that. Some people find it expedient to assert it, and many people are too embarrassed or scared to question it. But no one believes it.

>> No.17973226

>>17972664
>>17972672
that's just how I turned out

>> No.17973278

>>17972319
>Sex is about power
why do leftists say this as if it's true. it's not and no one has ever provided proof. it's only kind of about power in women's erotic fantasies.

>> No.17973287

>>17973278
well, rape is about power

>> No.17973288

>>17972225
Leftists are in sane psychopaths. Stop pretending that their people.

>> No.17973293

>>17973287
Rape is about being awesome. All of the best people are rapists. When you rape a woman, she falls in love with you.

>> No.17973299
File: 256 KB, 680x976, 96B73946-F882-4769-B2FD-EBBDBA19258F.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17973299

>>17972225
>[group I don’t like] all believe [outlandish claim] because I say so.

>> No.17973300

>>17973293
oof

>> No.17973302

>>17972285
>Tribal sages know that wisdom comes from uniting opposites, not separating them and living out partial lives, as slaves for Global Capital.
This is great but it doesn't mean your former is correct.

>> No.17973311

>>17972382
Books or sauce or you're a fag

>> No.17973316

>>17972249
there definitely is but this is not universal, in each it is a particular tradition in a particular culture. just as ours are in contemporary western culture (though somewhat more artificial and incoherent). most third genders (some of which westoids frequently misrepresent as transgender) came out of material needs too. e.g. prostitution.

>>17972535
that's not what rightwing means and if you define it as such you are conceding that these terms are meaningless and should stop using them. continuing to use them means you are not interested in politics, you are interested in factions and shit-stirring abstracted from anything meaningful.

>> No.17973342

>>17972230
>>17972249
>>17972542
>>17972727
>>17973299
Just because you faggots dismiss an idea because you disagree doesn't mean that it isn't widely believed. Like literally every progressive organization and media outlet openly promote this idea that the gender binary is colonialism, even fucking twitter promoted it on their front page today. Normies genuinely believe this, it isn't some retarded or obscure concept, it will become a dominant belief soon enough, so I ask again, where can I read where it originates from? Faggots

>> No.17973352

>>17973316
>came out of material needs too
to elaborate on this. appearance and social acceptability and role is determined by gender, so there is a need to modify it and become another in certain material circumstances. because men can't be prostitutes, you need to become womanish to be one (not to mention to appeal to men). because young women can't cover the duties of young men in their families (when there are few young men left alive), they need to become mannish to support their family. gendered clothing is a strong symbol because it legitimises.

>> No.17973363

>>17973287
no it's not. did you read my post, simply saying it is doesn't make it so. and men don't think in those terms either. i don't know if women do.

>> No.17973368

>>17973363
rape is about power. simply saying it isn't doesn't make it so.

>> No.17973373

>>17973342
Uh oh! Looks like your faggot ass didn’t meet the minimum uses of faggot per post quota! Your 4trannies faggotcredit has been lowered by 5faggotpoints.

Thank you, and remember: you’re a faggot

>> No.17973381

>>17972225
I never understood why we humor this idea. If you won't accept that you are a man or a woman you are obviously defective and need to be fixed. If I learned anything from years in higher education it's that whether you like it or not I could force you to accept what you are through therapy. It's just insane to have a deep hatred for being a dude or being a woman. Normal people just accept this and move on. Why should I bother altering my manner of speaking and call someone they or ze or some other insane shit when I could just declare you a defective and ignore you?

>> No.17973389

>>17973368
awful rhetoric. you are presupposing something with vague words based on your obsession with a made up notion of 'power' that consistently fails to describe reality. did you know people are horny and sometimes in a certain context with a certain disposition, they're a little unhinged? violent rape is rare and different, those people are murderers before they are rapists.

>> No.17973394 [DELETED] 

>>17973381
yeah, how can we have fat acceptance where we encourage people to accept being morbidly obese, but also encourage people to disfigure themselves with bizarre genital mutilations instead of just accepting their body.

>> No.17973399

>>17972382
It's both a symptom and a cause of future decay. It's a symptom of creeping egalitarianism, and it causes future decay in its own right through declining birth rates, state incompetence, etc.

>> No.17973404

>>17972230
Twitter idiots believe that but they have literally no impact on your life unless you choose to pay attention to them so who cares.

>> No.17973411

>>17973389
alright, let me quantify
raping an unconscious girl at a party is about sex
violent rape is about power, this is generally considered true by psychologists and profilers.

>> No.17973421

>>17972230
Wrong. They actually believe this shit.

>> No.17973432

>>17972294
why do retards think that if something was potentially classified as leftist at any point in the last 4000 years then belief in that view brands someone a leftist today

>> No.17973449

>>17972294
Not only are you wrong about those being leftist ideas, but you're also wrong about "virtually everyone" believing in them. You can find tons of people disagreeing with all of those from both left and right positions, but I know you know that and are just arguing in bad faith.

>> No.17973463

>>17972225
It's the same reason "Qanons" "trust the plan" despite all countervailing evidence. Because they are emotionally invested in a certain fictional depiction of the world and must distort all data to be in conformance with it or risk a violation of their sense of epistemic security.

>> No.17973486

>>17972225
>gender
Fake.
Sex is far more objective. gender can literally be anything to anyone. Its not an objective measure of anything. People think the terms are interchangeable but there not. Such beliefs should have no influence on medicine. But they do for whatever reason.

>> No.17973509
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17973509

>>17972225
>American leftists today universally believe that the gender binary of male & female was enforced by European colonialism and didn’t exist before then.

fixed for the sake of accuracy

>> No.17973543

>>17973486
bro what are you on? even john money admits gender has broad biological bases

>> No.17973546
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17973546

>>17973509
So this is conquest in the modern era.
America is more based than I thought.

>> No.17973557

>>17973543
John was of the opinion that gender is learned behavior. Of course, he later found that he was wrong.

>> No.17973600

>>17972225

>Leftists

You mean seething retards that aren't accepted by the normal people of society?

>> No.17973623 [SPOILER] 
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17973623

>>17972319
> Sex is about power, both ""men""" and ""women"" can be victimized.
This is true.

>>17972352
> In 2021 this distinction isn't important anymore.
Maybe not to you, but if I’m going to fuck something it better have been born with a vagina.

>>17973293
Based and rapepilled

>> No.17973654

>>17973509
Right wingers will hate american cultural dominance in europe but celebrate the collapse of socialism. Socialism was the only thing protecting European culture and now it’s dead

>> No.17973661

>>17972225
Holy mother of strawmen. I consider myself on the left and have no delusions about biological sex. Gender expression however, can be whatever you choose it to be. It is just an extension of your personality. Gender expression takes precedence over biological gender in a social context, because it is how people perceive you. accepting that expression at face value shouldnt be mandatory, but as far as i can tell it often correlates very well with being a piece of shit.
>>17973381
>obviously defective
by your personal standard, which also happens to be hopelessly defective
>need to be fixed
why exactly? you hold no authority over someone elses self-image
>i could force you to accept what you are through therapy
youre starting to sound like a deranged sociopath. maybe you are the one who needs "fixing" with proper medication
>why should i bother altering my manner of speaking
you shouldnt need to. social interaction should be completely voluntary, and whether they choose to acknowledge you spewing your inane bullshit is also completely voluntary. i declare your brain defective.

>> No.17973671

leftism is when you have blue hair and pronouns and the more blue hairer and pronounier you are, the more left.

"Left" (not marxist, communist, anarchist) and right are both liberals. Both want capitalism and private property, and personal rights, but in each of their own retarded way.

One side wants gender neutral bathrooms and healthcare for all citizens, the other wants to arm teachers with guns and make jesus the president.

>> No.17973682

new genders, new sexualities = new markets and new consumers.

Its capitalism reaching its tentacles into every facet of human life. Commodify everything, including sex and gender. Make new ones to grow the market.

Right wingers want all the benefits of modernity but without any of the consequences. Late-Stage Capitalism destroyed the traditional family and gender norms, not idiots on twitter or gender studies PHDs

>> No.17973690

>>17973661
> maybe you are the one who needs "fixing" with proper medication
> i declare your brain defective.
Not him but that’s very judgmental of you anon, you shouldn’t be antagonistic towards people with potential mental illnesses, more often then not strait up insulting them about their condition will simply reinforce their unhealthy viewpoint, and it doesn’t help your argument from an outside perspective.

>> No.17973698

>>17973671
Why can’t we have gender neutral bathrooms, healthcare for all citizens, arm teachers with guns and make jesus the president?

>> No.17973708

>>17973368
No rape is about pleasure

>> No.17973714

>>17973690
you may be right, but i wasnt really aiming to convince anyone in the first place. this is 4chan after all.
>>17973698
id be up for that if we agree that the spirit of jesus lives in a magic 8 ball

>> No.17973716

>>17973698
because most people prefer to use bathrooms restricted to their sex, healthcare doesn't grow on healthcare trees, guns in schools are a hot button issue, and jesus has been dead for 2000 years

>> No.17973722

>>17973368
Everything is about power when you want to get reductive about it

>> No.17973737

>>17972319
Haha, Tranny

>> No.17973744

>>17973716
>Jesus is dead

buddy.... i hate to break it to you...

>> No.17973747

>>17973714
>Complains about strawmen
>Spends the rest of the thread name-calling and dismissing with no proof
Neck yourself nigger

>> No.17973774

>>17973747
>complains about name-calling and dismissal of arguments
>neck yourself nigger
atleast i addressed some of your fucking points.
your orginal post seems to advocate involuntary reprogramming and an obsessive need to "fix" other people, which goes against basic civil liberties. thats fucking defective in my opinion.

>> No.17973789

>>17973342
Lmao

Die mad cis scum

Reddit spacing just for you :3

Seethe cope dial 8 have sexes

>> No.17973808

>>17973774
I love to fart quite loudly, and yes, with extreme fecal wetness>>17973747
I love to fart quite loudly, and yes, with extreme fecal wetness
I love to fart quite loudly, and yes, with extreme fecal wetness

>> No.17974771

>>17973342
>even fucking twitter promoted it on their front page today
Good heavens, it's fucking nothing!

>> No.17974783

>>17973342
I'm sorry easily researchable facts threw your eternal male/female hypothesis out the window. Nonbinary as a concept is older than dirt, however you might feel about it.

>> No.17974793

>>17972294
>What planet are you from where you think anyone that believes in the above ideas to any extent is right-wing?
Any period of time after the 1700’s

>> No.17974833

>>17974783
Non binary is a fake identity created less than 20 years ago and literally amounts to nothing more than a label. With other trannies they at least admit to performing another gender, with non binary it is literally a different pronoun combination and nothing more, mostly frequented by teenage K-pop fans btw

>> No.17974862

>>17972225
>Leftists today universally believe that the gender binary of male & female was enforced by European colonialism and didn’t exist before then

Hello I have a degree in women, gender, sexuality studies
No one thinks binary gender ideas "did not exist before European colonialism". Btw if you've ever accused someone of a straw man argument (and you have, probably a lot, because you're on /lit/) please take a moment to note that is exactly what you are doing. It's like you invented an argument you could call bullshit on, even though it's not what anyone is saying.
People who study and think about gender do think that gender is a social construct. Being controlling about "traditional" gender roles is certainly a way those with power and privilege granted by a matrix of oppression sustain that power and privilege.
A really simple google search can tell you that binary sex is not supported by nature or science
People who are antiimperialist are often also anti sexist/racist/ect so I guess you're just conflated all general "leftists" to what makes sense to you

>> No.17974871

>>17973342
>it will become a dominant belief soon enough
lmao. People still hate fags even though fag marriage has been legal for almost two decades in most places. You're dumb as bricks.

>> No.17974872

>>17972225
The Dogon tribe of Mali believe that "men are men and women are women" and that all this transgenderism is wrong and dangerous

>> No.17974893

>>17972319
You should read the sagas to see what norse people thought about homosexuality. Alot of the worst insults you could give a man was implying that he was somehow feminine or gay. They even had laws against that stuff that gave you reason to kill a man who insulted you to defend your honor (like reverse hate-speech laws)

>> No.17974903

>>17973509
But european leftists believe the same thing? Ever been to a university?

>> No.17974917

>>17973421
Corps want you to think people think this way, and you're a retard for not seeing that.

>> No.17974932

>>17974862
People who say they're anti imperialists just want to enforce their own will upon the world. Your mind is captivated by liberalism. Also the elite clearly doesn't give a shit about gender binarism so I don't know where you get that weird idea from, then again you wasted money on a useless degree in ideology

>> No.17974938

>>17974917
>Corps want you to think people think this way
Why?

>> No.17974947

never heard anyone imply that gender binarity was actively enforced by european colonialism.

European colonialism did alter some cultures that used to have more than 2 genders, but it cannot be tied to simply colonialism

>> No.17975189

>>17973226
Xx --> female
Xy --> male
very rare genetic syndrome with no obvious phenotype characteristics --> whatever

And stop being a faggot.

>> No.17975234

>>17975189
you're a fucking dumbass

>> No.17975244

>>17972285
>everyone falling for this bait

>> No.17975273

>>17972230
Yes they do.

>> No.17975374

>>17972225
>Leftists today universally believe
I suggest that you try having this conversation with a professor of African history at your university. You will be very surprised by what they tell you.

>> No.17975395

>>17972230
I do

>> No.17975398

>>17974938
Not him, but
Corps want first and foremost the polarization of the masses. Consumerism flourishes that way

>> No.17975406

>>17972285
>Tiresias?
>Tiresias who?

>> No.17975990

>>17972225
>Sexual dimorphism exists
>Leftists: Sexual dimorphism does not exist

>> No.17976043

few traits of totalitarian regimes are at the same time so confusing to the superficial observer and yet so characteristic of the whole intellectual climate as the complete perversion of language. The change of meaning of the words by which the ideals of the new regime are expressed. Gradually as the process continues, the whole language becomes despoiled, and words become empty shells deprived of any definite meaning, as capable of denoting one thing as it's opposite.

>> No.17976244

>>17972249
Every single culture that had that was a patriarchy. The matrialinial tribes had male and female.

>> No.17976297

>>17974833
NB is the default identity of every body on the planet until they are fed the ideology of gender.

>> No.17976310

>>17974862
based, the first person to tell the truth in this entire thread

>> No.17976312

>>17976297
nonbinary is literally saying ‘i don’t like stereotypical gender roles so that means i dont have a gender’ which is absolutely retarded and extremely regressive. The correct approach is ‘i am my birth gender but i dont care about gender stereotypes’

>> No.17976351

>>17974932
The elite are liberal capitalists you fucking micro-cephalate, why would an anti-imperialist be captivated by the ideology of liberalism

>> No.17976368

>>17976312
what the fuck is a birth gender you ideologue, yet again ascribing made up bullshit to an inherently nonbinary body.

>> No.17976516

>>17975990
explain frogs and lizards then

>> No.17977501

>>17976368
>nonbinary body
>with either a penis or vagina
I'd like if people accepted non binary expression too, but the whole "NB" phenomenon is a dumb fad by young people who think they know shit but actually don't because their brain isn't fully developed and they only have a shallow understanding of themselves and the big picture.

>> No.17977518

>>17972294
Those are Liberal ideas. Liberalism is not a byword for American leftism.

>> No.17977564

>>17973509
>flying hamburger in the back

>> No.17977605

>>17974862
>Being controlling about "traditional" gender roles is certainly a way those with power and privilege granted by a matrix of oppression sustain that power and privilege.
But those in power constantly propagandise against gender roles? You are the powerful, the system, the oppressors. You simply use your denial of your own power as another power tactic.

>A really simple google search can tell you that binary sex is not supported by nature or science
Ah yes, the arbiter of truth: A google search.
There are obviously two sexes, denying this is to biology what flat earthers are to physics.

>> No.17977721

>>17973278
We've had societies that equate power to bloodline but somehow sex isn't a part of that at all? Hell even racist incels today will claim interracial sex is a form of genocide because sex is that powerful.

>> No.17977753
File: 320 KB, 1687x691, terfs and trans conflict.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17977753

>> No.17978868

>>17976297
If people are not naturally born into a binary then why do they need to reference a binary in order to defy it? Fucking moron

>> No.17978902

>>17973342
this

>> No.17979698

>>17976297
So where did gender come from, then? Faggot

>> No.17979801

>>17976297
It beats the ideology of cultural marxism