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/lit/ - Literature

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17971798 No.17971798 [Reply] [Original]

What makes this book so infamously difficult? I've heard people saying that it was the most difficult book they've ever read, but I've never heard them say why it was so hard.

>> No.17971841

>>17971798
Main thing is that Gaddis doesn't make it immediately obvious who's talking or what's going on in a scene. There are some scenes where you really have to pay attention to figure out what's going on. But the book is definitely worth it. One of the best books I've read that I found out about because of /lit/

>> No.17971867

>>17971798
I have no clue. Some of the descriptive passages can be dense and there is quite a bit of allusion in the opening section, after that it’s practically a fucking page turner. Definitely one of the most enjoyable books I’ve read.

>> No.17971897

It isn't very difficult

>> No.17971925

>>17971798
The one section when Wyatt goes back home and is extremely unstable was tough for me because it was just a monologue of esoteric theological references strung together for a few pages straight; but, if you pay attention the book shouldn’t be a problem to understand.

>> No.17971944

fuck off

>> No.17972030

>>17971944
This

>> No.17972042

>>17972030
>>17971944
keep seething pynchon fags

>> No.17972109

>>17972042
What does Pynchon have to do with this

>> No.17972191

>>17971944
>>17972030
What's wrong? I'm genuinely curious.

>> No.17972356

>>17971841
and at some point early on Wyatt's name is never mentioned again

>> No.17972399

Its not difficult if you know that multiple characters will lose their names and understand how the book is structured to make the reader *******recognize******* the significance of earlier events later on.
If u let gaddis do his thing and know he'll make it clear what happened, it is not difficult at all.
Also dont read franzen's essay before, you'll expect unreasonable difficulty going in and look for it subconsciously or counsciously.

>> No.17972409

>>17972191
This guy said it right
>>17972399

>> No.17972541

>>17972191
they are just moorefags that think calling a book 'difficult' connotes some valuation of work, good or bad

>> No.17972641

>>17971798
I found it difficult mostly because it requires intense concentration. If you lose the thread you will quickly become lost. I read chapter summaries after I finished the book and had totally misunderstood major plot points near the end.
When Wyatt goes home mid book it's almost unreadable.
Well worth the read if you are in the right mood, but everyone saying it ISN'T difficult are either super smart or just arrogant.

>> No.17972721

>>17972641
This. Also the esoteric discussions and art descriptions can get tedious. It’s fairly easy to understand in broad strokes. I would never reread it but I remember cracking up when Otto meets his “father”. This book will only appeal to a certain sections of readers- those who enjoy postmodern tomes.

>> No.17972794

>>17972641
If you don't have the attention span of a golfish and the memory of an alcoholic its not difficult - and i'm a dipshit.
I do agree that wyatt's psychotic internal monologue at home was beyond tedious and almost made me put the book down, but i enjoyed the next 50 or so pages a fuck ton and realized that writing style isn't something gaddis would do at all for the next 500 pgs. Its also a jarring break in style, not essential to the story and you can understand the theme without parsing it. The only truly difficult part of the book.

>> No.17972821

>>17971841
This. From a narrative standpoint, you'd want to be able to pick up on what he refers to. Famously Gaddis threw everything he knew into this first novel. I believe one story claims he had finished the novel and a friend of his name dropped something or said a line Gaddis liked in casual conversation so Gaddis ran to his publisher to have the thing changed with this new addition. First hundred pages are pretty hilarious if you know how Catholics and Protestants feel about one another. After that there's a bit about art. There is an online guide that makes all this clear.

>> No.17972998

>>17972356
why would you do that, a-william

>> No.17973007

>>17972998
Based bookwop viewer.

>> No.17973190

I'm also interested in reading this as an ESL, do you guys think the lexicon was overly obscure?

>> No.17973282

>>17971841
What is the purpose of writing this way?

>> No.17973286

>>17973190
It's mostly dialogue and that language is simple albeit hard to follow at times. The prose is more obscure. I would read the first (short-ish) section and if you can handle that you should be fine. But get the sample off Kindle before you spend $$$ on the book.

>> No.17973317

>>17973282
I don't know Gaddis' intentions, but characters voices are all very unique so it's easy to spot who's talking quickly. However, there's also tertiary conversations going on as well as things like radio shows and television interjecting themselves (there's good thematic reasons for this). If you're concentrated and patient you should be alright.

>> No.17973554

>>17973286
Thanks, anon.

>> No.17973596

>>17972356
His name changes frequently after page 120.

>> No.17974473

>>17973282
There’s an excerpt from an interview I think where Gaddis just outright admits he deliberately writes in a very difficult way to challenge the reader

>> No.17974962

I entirely missed that a character had castrated himself until I saw it in an online chapter summary

>> No.17975484

>>17972821
>I believe one story claims he had finished the novel and a friend of his name dropped something or said a line Gaddis liked in casual conversation so Gaddis ran to his publisher to have the thing changed with this new addition.
That's a pretty funny story if it's true because it reminds me of what Otto does with his play and Gordon, lol.

>> No.17975545

Unattributed dialogue: a novel

>> No.17975560

>>17973596
U bever read it idiot.
>>17974473
Yes - to weed out idiots
>>17974962
Well to be fair he didnt castrate himself in the actual scene, plus when he first gets introduced in ch 3 he gets introduces 2-3 oaragraphs away from the rale of a priest who did, and thus "sowed his field without a seed". Also given the epilogue and his sade book recs its easy to see why he castrated himself.

>> No.17975688

Based Otto is the most /lit/ character in all of literature

>> No.17975769

>>17975560
Learn to type, retard.

>> No.17975876

>>17975769
I’m trans btw don’t know if that matters

>> No.17975897

>>17975876
Bro anselm is trans - why you think he castr8 his self?

>> No.17976101

>>17975897
I’m incredibly small btw, dunno if that matters c:

>> No.17976119

>>17975545
no, that's JR

>> No.17976961

redpill me on Anna the big Swede

>> No.17977865

>>17975897
I know this is a joke, but I loved the play on words he used between Origen and original

>> No.17978773

>>17971798
I couldn't finish it on my first read. But on my second it became my favorite book.