Wittgenstein vs Nietzsche

[Anonymous No.17960700]

From Nietzsche's "A Wanderer and His Shadow" ( first paragraph): "One should only speak where one cannot remain silent, and only speak of what one has conquered—the rest is all chatter, “literature,” bad breeding."

From Wittgenstein's Tractatus(prop 7, last proposition): "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."

Was Wittgenstein consciously addressing Nietzsche? Or is it just a coincidence?

[Anonymous No.17960868]

I think it's an idea that is pretty universal and not to hard to come up with, not to discredit it. Zhuangzi has said similar stuff

[Anonymous No.17960888]

>>17960868
I suppose it appeared that way to me because they are representatives of schools of philosophy that often spar.

[Anonymous No.17961243]

>>17960700
Even Kant said one must not speak of the noumenon.

[Anonymous No.17961365]

>>17960700
This little essay is better than all what Pettystein ever wrote.

[Anonymous No.17961389]

>>17960700
>only speak of what one has conquered
God Nietzsche was such an unbearable little turbo autist invalid. As though he ever “conquered” anything in his life besides weaning himself off of bed wetting. I know he has insights but sometimes his sperg personality is just so cringe and tiresome

[Anonymous No.17961438]

>>17960700
Looks like Elliot Rodger.

[Anonymous No.17961505]

>>17960700

[Anonymous No.17961526]

>>17960700
Where is the beard?

[Anonymous No.17961599]

>>17961389
Where is he cringe?

[Anonymous No.17961655]

>>17960700
Now they have a twinkification faceapp module? Lol

[Anonymous No.17961769]

>>17961505
I don't get it.

[Anonymous No.17962123]

>>17961599
Out of context.
http://www.literaturepage.com/read.php?titleid=thusspakezarathustra&abspage=120&bookmark=1

[Anonymous No.17962152]

>>17961365
Wittgenstein philosophized as if he were a computer. He basically proved that if you are computer, there's no reason to live.

[Anonymous No.17962269]

>>17961599

[Anonymous No.17962271]

>>17962152
What reason could a computer possibly have to kill itself?

[Anonymous No.17962314]

>>17962271
It has no reason to kill itself, but no reason to live as well.

[Anonymous No.17962315]

>>17960700
niggerstein lol

[Anonymous No.17962419]

>>17960700
These aren't identical. Wittgenstein states that one must remain silent when one cannot speak meaningfully. If it weren't for the existence of rambling idiots this would be a tautology. Nietzsche's position is stronger. He urges the reader to speak only when the reader finds himself compelled to speak by his own spirit.

Wittgenstein is fine with any speech that is sensible, Nietzsche further restricts it to only that which cannot be contained.

[Anonymous No.17962539]

>>17962419
I'll add that Nietzsche took his own prescription. His sperginess is a testament to this. Take him or leave him, but don't doubt that he believed himself to be saving the world with his writing. All of the grandiosity, all of the biblical parallels, all of his sperg are signs of somebody unashamed, as the perceived urgency overrode shame. How many on /lit/ or in any given university department are willing to write like Nietzsche? Some probably want to. Those who merely "want to" fear the guaranteed ridicule more than they fear leaving their words unwritten, and thus also follow Nietzsche's admonition.

[Anonymous No.17962595]

>>17960868
+1 (also one of the seven sages from Greece)

[Anonymous No.17962603]

>>17962539
I'll also add that he might've been as great as he thought he was.

>Because, FOR MAN TO BE REDEEMED From REVENGE--that is for me the bridge to the highest hope, and a rainbow after long storms.

>Otherwise, however, would the tarantulas have it. "Let it be very justice for the world to become full of the storms of our vengeance"--thus do they talk to one another.

>"Vengeance will we use, and insult, against all who are not like us"--thus do the tarantula-hearts pledge themselves.

>"And 'Will to Equality'--that itself shall henceforth be the name of virtue; and against all that hath power will we raise an outcry!"

>Ye preachers of equality, the tyrant-frenzy of impotence crieth thus in you for "equality": your most secret tyrant-longings disguise themselves thus in virtue-words!

>Fretted conceit and suppressed envy--perhaps your fathers' conceit and envy: in you break they forth as flame and frenzy of vengeance.

Excerpt from https://nietzsche.thefreelibrary.com/Thus-Spake-Zarathustra/31-1

He certainly nailed 2015 onward with surprising precision for a man long dead.

[Anonymous No.17962621]

>>17962419
This highlights a significant difference between them. Nietzsche leads with the will, but Wittgenstein acts like he's some disembodied intellect.

[Anonymous No.17962642]

>>17962603
This was already seen in the French revolution... and may other liberal revolutions over the course of history. It's always the same. Human nature is human nature.

[Anonymous No.17962694]

>>17962642
I don't disagree but, although 1789 was all about pleb revolt, it didn't reach the insanity we see now. Nor did the civil rights movement. We're far enough down the road that, as I see it, likening the preachers of equality to evil spiders has finally come to fruition. The current movement is more venomous and mentally unhinged than anything before it. Big time. It is proof that those fighting for "equality" are using it as a bludgeon in order to manifest their ressentiment in the form of total collapse. Earlier revolutions at least had a pretense of reason.

[Anonymous No.17962738]

>>17962694
>Earlier revolutions at least had a pretense of reason.
Rose colored glasses. It has always been like this. It's the same thing over and over again.

I don't agree that they are doing this to collapse society. I believe they are doing it to reshape society into neo feudalism. I don't think it's a matter of resentment at all, but a strategic power move.

Those who are full of resentment are just the useful idiots.

[Anonymous No.17962781]

>>17962694
Then again, I now remember the Marquis De Sade. Maybe older, more traditional civilizations did a better job of suppressing the degenerate. Maybe they kept fewer records. Maybe the degeneracy is nothing more than a predictable symptom of the collapse of a civilization.

Winter is too late to heed Nietzsche's words, in any case. They can offer guidance for those in the next spring, though it probably won't help. The founders weren't historically illiterate and, yet, their systems have been overthrown in favor of mob rule.

[Anonymous No.17962796]

>>17962781
You call corporate communism mob rule?

You don't get the picture, do you?

[Anonymous No.17962804]

>>17962694
Look up the pariser commune in 1871, i think Nietzsche might be also influenced by this.

[Anonymous No.17962845]

>>17962796
They are not communists, they are capitalist-liberals who use them as useful idiots to make more money and graining power. But I think they play a dangerous game that might really lead to some kind of revolution.

[Anonymous No.17962847]

>>17962796
Allowing every member of the mob a vote is exactly what a would-be tyrant would propose. Much easier to push an agenda when idiots have as much say in the political future as people with a stake in it.

Universal suffrage isn't a wise policy. You're correct that the mob is being directed by a small group of people who are much more sophisticated than it is. That's the point. I'd wager that there would be better outcomes for all if the mob had less political power. If the power struggles are fought between only those who see the road ahead for what it is, the ratio of sanity to insanity would be much higher. As it stands, sophisticated liars with no care for the future don't need to square off against the peers-in-power directly, they merely need to use their control of information to convince rubes to go out and check a box.

This is why we have no legitimate political debate. Politics for the mob is about crafting the most pleasant lies, not about convincing a select group of folks who can see through bullshit that one's ideas have any merit.

[Anonymous No.17962875]

>>17962845
What America needs is some kind of progressive thinking revolutionary conservativism like in the Weimar Republic.

[Anonymous No.17962878]

>>17962804
Good pointer. What's next now that the entire west is a pseudo commune directed from the shadows by a literal conspiracy of governments and private interests? Did whoever planned the CHAZ thing believe that there is a strong enough symbol to fight against that seizing territory in a city might somehow accomplish anything?

[Anonymous No.17962895]

>>17962845
Nobody is a communist. Expecially not communists. Communism is a story used to cover an immense bureaucratic government.

[Anonymous No.17962897]

>>17962847
In the end there will be just one solution for these pseudo-aristocrats.

[Anonymous No.17962904]

>>17962847
You think voting matters? The people have no power in this system. It's a democratic illusion.

Go read some more Evola.

[Anonymous No.17962928]

>>17962875
No. What we need is a global religious revolt against the utter doom the secular powers have pushed us up against. Any revolution in this nation will lead to ... the end of the world.

[Anonymous No.17962934]

>>17961365
which translation, anon? thanks

[Anonymous No.17962941]

>>17962895
Even when there were real communists, the problem with them was always their naive understanding of human nature. Communist systems corrupting very fast.

[Anonymous No.17962956]

>>17962941
I honestly don't believe there were ever "real" communists. And that "naive understanding" you speak of was not naive at all, but a mythos for their revolution.

We do not live in a world of ideas. There are groups fighting for power. They use ideas to cover their agenda because no one wants to see power naked.

No one has ever fought for an idea. No one.
Ever.
And no one ever will.

[Anonymous No.17962958]

>>17962875
Seems a bit late in the game. The same (((group))) has a monopoly on information, from news info to economic info (currency, itself, is information) to cultural info. This group's own holy books display their hatred of all outsiders, yet they use the word "hate" to brand their opposition.

Information is the bedrock, and good people are not in charge of its dissemination (yes, intentional word).

John 1:1 brings Heraclitus into the narrative via "Logos" for a reason. Consciousness is the nexus of whatever we are, and right action requires right information. Wretched liars are in near total control of the information distributed to the public.

That bit about the "father of lies" ruling the world seems more true every day. Same as it ever was, I guess.

>>17962897
Bringing a guillotine to a fight against a hydra? Oof. I suppose there's a reason that such a mythical beast was conjured up. Nothing new under the sun.

[Anonymous No.17962976]

>>17962956
Christian martyrs died for one. Rare exception. Unlike the other two major Abrahamic religions, Christianity forbids deceit, even to save one's own skin.

[Anonymous No.17962981]

>>17962934
I'm German, I don't know which translation is the best, but try this.
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl201/modules/Philosophers/Nietzsche/Truth_and_Lie_in_an_Extra-Moral_Sense.htm

[Anonymous No.17963002]

>>17962956
You think there not stupid enough to believe in there own ideas?

[Anonymous No.17963038]

>>17963002
The best liars are the one who also belive in them and this will be their fall, but unfortunately also our.

[Anonymous No.17963150]

>>17962976
God is not an idea. Despite what people will have you believe.

[Anonymous No.17963159]

>>17963002
Some of the definitely did. But I know for a fact that someone like Leon Trotsky did not.

[Anonymous No.17963222]

>>17961389
cope and seethe. nietzsche was a genius and an amazing writer. he will be remember forever and he deserves nothing less.

[Anonymous No.17963341]

>>17961389
The cognitive dissonance is astoundingly strong in this one.

[Anonymous No.17963357]

>>17963222
Seconded. He's a legend. The rebel in me does not like to bow to any man, but Nietzsche was a force of nature. I think he really did see many of the problems facing mankind and tried to find a way out of them. Definitely a soldier of the human spirit in my book.

[Anonymous No.17963667]

>>17962981
danke bruder

[Anonymous No.17965231]

>>17960700
Is this a woman?

[Anonymous No.17965280]

>>17965231
nevermind