has a conservative ever written a good political satire?

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Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:45:10 2021 No.17953929 [Reply] [Original]

has a conservative ever written a good political satire?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:51:07 2021 No.17953985 a confederacy of dunces

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:52:30 2021 No.17954000 >>17953929 Aristophanes

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:53:20 2021 No.17954004 The average liberal tends to latch onto comedians because they themself are incapable of being funny.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:53:23 2021 No.17954005 Bill Cosby is also a rapist

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:54:23 2021 No.17954015 I don't see why not.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:54:53 2021 No.17954018 >>17954004 "Funny" implies "funnier than average."

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:55:55 2021 No.17954025 >>17954005 That's very funny to me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:56:53 2021 No.17954035 >>17954018 And the average liberal or leftist or whatever it is most convenient to call them is less funny than the average person.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:58:17 2021 No.17954048 >>17953929 Bill Watterson nigger

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:58:20 2021 No.17954049 >>17953929 the turner diaries

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:58:23 2021 No.17954051 >>17954005 worse than that he's a hypocrite

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:58:45 2021 No.17954056 File: 123 KB, 790x1024, chesterton2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This guy wrote a little bit

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:58:47 2021 No.17954057 >>17954035 You'd think a group of people who're on average more funny would be able to produce more noteworthy comedians.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:59:15 2021 No.17954059 >>17953929 >If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/.

Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:59:48 2021 No.17954064

>>17954004
The average liberal tends to latch onto comedians because they are attracted to the idea of controlling the careers of other people. The don't listen to comedians for humor, they listen to make sure the correct people are the butt of the jokes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 17:59:49 2021 No.17954063 >>17954048 I don't think you're using "conservative" the same way most people do.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:01:59 2021 No.17954075 File: 23 KB, 300x250, oh no.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17954064

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:03:23 2021 No.17954083 >>17954059 i'm discussing political satire, the literature genre

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:04:59 2021 No.17954097 >>17954083 No, you're not. You're discussing "conservatives," whatever the fuck that means.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:06:08 2021 No.17954104 >>17954051 Based Norm

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:07:51 2021 No.17954113 >>17954057 Having a sense of humor in every day life is different from performing comedy. When anything is formalized, the left will outperform the right because they are generally ore intelligent.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:11:04 2021 No.17954127 >>17954113 Having a sense of humour is not the same as being funny.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:14:06 2021 No.17954150 >>17954097 yes, conservatives who have written political satire, the literature genre

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:15:29 2021 No.17954162 >>17954150 Have you contributed any? What's your definition of "conservative"?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:15:52 2021 No.17954166 >>17954127 It’s a requirement if you plan on purposefully being funny.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:17:34 2021 No.17954169 >>17953929 the Babylon Bee twitter feed https://mobile.twitter.com/TheBabylonBee

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:17:56 2021 No.17954171 >>17954166 So, if you're performing comedy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:19:13 2021 No.17954180 The more I think about it, I honestly think that humor is downstream from politics in a way that makes political humor from each side unintelligible to their opposition. The left fails to understand this because they lack empathy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:20:21 2021 No.17954190 File: 249 KB, 516x486, Jaihoo's Trip to the Future.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Jaihoo's Trip to the Future

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:20:32 2021 No.17954192 >>17953985 fpbp. Ignatius could not be conceived by a leftist.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:23:23 2021 No.17954206 >>17954171 Or making jokes in social settings.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:24:24 2021 No.17954215 >>17954162 the commonly understood definition of conservative

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:27:26 2021 No.17954241 the greatest and most famous political satire ever written in English, A Modest Proposal, was written by a conservative.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:28:09 2021 No.17954249 >>17954192 Scrolling through wikipedia it says he was obsessed with Marylin Monroe, became depressed and paranoid by the murders of JFK and MLK, and liked the Beat movement.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:29:11 2021 No.17954259 >>17954206 People don't usually prepare for that. >>17954215 Means nothing, explain yourself or fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:31:41 2021 No.17954276 >>17954249 You have to understand that Ignatius is presented as a hypocrite and Toole's self-insert.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:33:20 2021 No.17954283 >>17953929 Sean Connery made me laugh when he talked about slapping women

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:33:37 2021 No.17954287 >>17954259 >People don't usually prepare for that. Maybe not in a formal way, but having a sense of humor is is the preparation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:33:53 2021 No.17954290 laurence sterne, johnathon swift the problem is that by liberal standards of today, most authors prior to the 20th century are super hardcore conservatives; so there must be an awful lot of funny conservatives out there

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:34:05 2021 No.17954294 >>17954276 I meant Toole himself. And either way, why is "not conservative" automatically "leftist"?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:35:07 2021 No.17954304 >>17954287 That's like saying that being handsome is a kind of preparation for a date.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:36:11 2021 No.17954316 >>17954304 It’s probably the best preparation there is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:36:15 2021 No.17954317 >>17954290 >the problem is that by liberal standards of today, most authors prior to 2012 are super hardcore conservatives ftfy

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 18:54:15 2021 No.17954415 >>17953929 Many of the famous satirists have been conservatives, of one sort or another. Aristophanes, Horace, Juvenal, Alexander Pope, Jonathan Swift, GK Chesterton, Evelyn Waugh. The list goes on.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 21:03:02 2021 No.17955198 Goddamn you people are so retarded >>17953929 No >>17954064 lol >>17954190 this one is pretty good actually

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 21:05:48 2021 No.17955210 >>17954169 Shit

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 21:07:53 2021 No.17955218 >>17953929 Yes, look at interracial cuck porn and Black New World Order discords.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 21:11:36 2021 No.17955234 >>17953929 Would Swift be a conservative?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 21:12:46 2021 No.17955239 >>17954049 I think that author was a socialist

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 21:13:49 2021 No.17955242 >>17955218 Do you even know what satire is?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 21:19:14 2021 No.17955262 >>17955242 Just take a look at the discord and the BNWO sissy and cuck captions they produce. Only someone from /pol/ can conceive something like that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 21:22:19 2021 No.17955277 >>17954056 He’s funny because he’s fat

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 21:24:30 2021 No.17955286 >>17953929 Based /leftypol/ poster

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 21:35:47 2021 No.17955352 >>17954056 give me a qrd on this fat fellow

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 21:42:49 2021 No.17955401 >>17953929 Well there's that dude named Anonymous who memed a guy so hard he became potus.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 21:46:04 2021 No.17955417 >>17953929 Mario Vargas Llosa, the greatest living writer, you filthy fucking anglo. Not to mention canonical writer Machado de Assis.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 22:16:29 2021 No.17955603 >>17955417 >vargas llosa >conservative I guess he is a conservative if by that you mean milquetoast center right institutionalist liberal

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 22:32:01 2021 No.17955695 >>17955603 That's literally what being a conservative is, white sharia isn't real.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 22:58:47 2021 No.17955843 >>17953929 Ifunny gif captions are funny

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 23:22:29 2021 No.17955958 >>17955352 Intelligent, theistic, and with a wicked sense of humor

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 23:25:13 2021 No.17955978 >>17955958 kek sounds good. might give him a read.

Anonymous Mon Apr 5 23:28:32 2021 No.17955997

>>17955978
Start with The Man Who was Thursday. It can be read in a day and while it’s not HUGELY funny, it’s great.

Céline is probably the funniest writer I know of, and while you may not consider Journey a satire, it’s got some of that in there. What ‘leftist’ writer is funny? Voltaire?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 23:34:40 2021 No.17956017 >>17955603 By the standards of Latin America, where the literati class worships Fidel Castro, he's definitely conservative.

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 23:40:04 2021 No.17956043 >>17954051 cosby committed a vicious act of hypocrisy on me!

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 23:42:38 2021 No.17956053 >>17953985 What was his political stance?

>>	Anonymous Mon Apr 5 23:44:02 2021 No.17956061 Are we going to ignore that Marx was conservative and funny?

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 02:23:51 2021 No.17956732

>>17954063
Can you blame him that conservative these days means you don't believe autogeniaphylliac trannies should be allowed to be anywhere near children? The meaning of conservative has shifted so far left that even stating that people should be responsible for their own health decisions means you're a far right neonazi who deserves to sent to an internment camp

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 02:41:05 2021 No.17956789 >>17953929 No, right wingers in general aren't witty enough to write good satire.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 02:48:18 2021 No.17956818 satire is the faggiest genre, total bitch shit, seething wojak tier, same energy as snarky chapotranny post with lmao appended

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 03:07:05 2021 No.17956878

>>17956789
And in the end, conservatives, by virtue of being conservative, never have been funny, and never will be funny.

This is just intrinsic. Conservatism and humor clash naturally, that’s why conservative ‘humor’ is Steven Crowder-tier shit like ‘let’s make fun of minorities’ and ‘let’s kick a homeless person while he’s already on the ground’. It’s just an extension of the conservative mindset, which is just petty, vitriolic hatred for those beneath you.

Humor naturally clashes with this, since humor is a great emancipator. Humor is simply lack of predictability combined with lack of power. Compare that to conservatives, which is all about stability, and keeping the ones at the top (themselves) in power. This way of thinking infects their ‘comedy’, which makes it predictable and pro status-quo, and therefore by default safe and lame

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 03:12:04 2021 No.17956899 File: 1.33 MB, 2795x3546, iu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17953929 Balzacs hyperrealism is best satirical satire

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 03:16:41 2021 No.17956916 >>17953929 Define conservative. Define political. Define satire.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 03:21:29 2021 No.17956936 >>17953929 G.K. Chesterton - The Flying Inn, among other works

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 03:44:49 2021 No.17956994 >>17956818 >I will never ever in my life be funny, gotta justify this somehow... >I know I'll just dismiss it entirely!!

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 04:07:59 2021 No.17957071 >>17956789 >>17956878 see >>17954415

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 04:55:45 2021 No.17957219 >>17955997 Celine was an anarchist but then again the thread is bait The definition of conservative will keep changing and become ever narrower until people stop replying

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 04:57:02 2021 No.17957225 george bernard shaw

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 04:57:05 2021 No.17957226 Gogol

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 05:11:43 2021 No.17957272 >>17953929 Political orientated people cant be funny for the same reason the religious arent funny. Because they are bigots. All the greats of comedy are apolitical, if they where not apolitical they would be bigoted and therefor unfunny.

>>	Sage Tue Apr 6 08:39:01 2021 No.17958034 File: 326 KB, 1080x1080, 1617705878917.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17953929 This thread sucks and you are all retarded

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 09:12:43 2021 No.17958174 >>17953929 >conservative >good

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 09:46:06 2021 No.17958342 >>17954056 He was a vocal distributionist. Can't really lump him in with modern conservatives.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 09:48:33 2021 No.17958355 File: 1.04 MB, 1487x2358, DFD8C898-9042-4E55-B7AE-3363EA857861.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >is the funniest book of all time in your path

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 09:49:52 2021 No.17958362

>>17956878
Who would have thought that when your conception of humor is politically motivated, you'd be unable to find things that don't endorse your beliefs funny. Leftists like to say exactly this a lot, but it really indicates a lack of self awareness than anything else.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 09:50:24 2021 No.17958364 I think you could make an argument for BBC's "Yes Minister" show having a conservative bent, especially given its theme of a pernicious civil service.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 09:55:57 2021 No.17958387 >>17956994 satire isn't the only genre of humour, but it is the gayest and least funny, >>17957272 puts it well

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 09:57:49 2021 No.17958398 >>17957272 >apolitical Funny way of saying "supporting the status quo of the time"

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 10:02:19 2021 No.17958432 >>17958398 >Assuming that there is ever some sort of entirely fixed status quo at any time Highly politicized people tend be lacking in self awareness, but this is kind of pathetic.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 10:04:34 2021 No.17958444

>>17956878
jej, do you honestly believe this? good joke, very conservative of you.

if I were to place the essence of a joke it is in being absurd or in the reinterpratation of a certain logic.
> and ‘let’s kick a homeless person while he’s already on the ground’. It’s just an extension of the conservative mindset, which is just petty, vitriolic hatred for those beneath you.
isnt that ironic considered the nature of the daily show or whatever making fun of hillbillies for not being liberal enough like the trendy urdinite? Or the snuddy daily blog of some hippy in their interpretation of “kicking the dog”. you forgeth that everyone is authorial and constructs a power frame in their very speach. Its really not much different from what you are on about. No. Id say humor is being aware of the absurdity in something, and being aware of the contradictions in your own state helps instead of smelling your own farts. People make fun and its funny to make fun of stupid people all the time. Its just that some people are not honest about it and try to form it as if they are “punching up”.

Its a mix of absurdity and implicity.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 10:06:57 2021 No.17958453 >>17958355 one of my favourite books but where is the political satire?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 10:07:22 2021 No.17958457 >>17953985 John Kennedy Toole wasn't conservative. Not only was he gay af, he routinely brought randos home for sex.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 10:08:23 2021 No.17958460 >>17954192 Ignatius didn't write the book. Toole did.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 10:10:01 2021 No.17958470 >>17958457 >being conservative simply means not putting a sausage up your ass.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 10:27:28 2021 No.17958563 >>17954005 I actually laughed out loud. This website is free, ppl.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 10:31:20 2021 No.17958591

>>17958444
I think if you were to ask any of these people to explain the "punching up/punching down" paradigm of humor they subscribe to, they wouldn't be able to to without rooting it in the moral assumptions leftism is based on. Any explanation they would give would acknowledge the fact that senses of humor are downstream from politics, but they wouldn't be able to see it because to the leftist every thing is political except leftism itself, which is ultimately some sort of pre-political set of table manners.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 10:34:10 2021 No.17958606 >>17954241 >A Modest Proposal, Swift was arguing for the British government to treat the citizens of Ireland better and you think this was written by a conservative?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 10:37:53 2021 No.17958629 >>17958606 When Swift lists the reforms he supports, I think almost all of them are just telling the Irish to get their shit together.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 10:43:42 2021 No.17958658 >>17954064 check out stewart lee and get filtered

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 11:02:35 2021 No.17958778 >>17958658 > a leftist latches onto a comedian to cover for his own humorlessness I've been familiar with Stewart Lee for over a decade. I was really into british comedy when I was in high school.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 11:33:21 2021 No.17959018 >>17954169 also https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 11:36:19 2021 No.17959039 >>17953929 Reactionary conservatives cannot be funny. They just come across as bitter

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 11:39:43 2021 No.17959057 >>17959039 cringe unwarranted axiomaticnigger. dont you have a twitter, either memy alt left or right to go back to?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 11:48:51 2021 No.17959121 >>17953929 Pretty much every single great satirist writer was conservative. Swift, Voltaire, etc... Of course illiteracy is one of the criteria for today's leftism so naturally this knowledge is unnatural.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 11:48:53 2021 No.17959122 >>17954113 The left and the right have changed places and now the left is the morality police and then right are edgelords. It's hilarious.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 11:51:45 2021 No.17959140 >>17958778 For me it's Jeremy Clarkson.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 12:00:30 2021 No.17959192 >>17958457 You can be gay and conservative anon. Tim Dillon exists and is very funny.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 12:01:50 2021 No.17959207 >>17955417 >Machado de Assis how the fuck is he a conservative? If anything he was cynical about the newly formed republic, as it provided very little actual change.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 12:10:34 2021 No.17959257 >>17959140 Never bothered with Top Gear or Dr. Who. Those were the two pieces of British television I deliberately ignored.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 12:17:12 2021 No.17959295
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most humor from conservatives tends to be anonymous memes because the left are howling gaggling morons who'll absolutely kill any opposition off the airwaves. you can usually tell by the fact if you push them far enough they'll far into histrionic shouts of "HOW DARE YOU. HOW DARE YOU HOWDAREYOU."

the various 'comedians' pushed by the left are political activists backed by megacorps to trick the sort of braindead gullible morons who need comedians to spoonfeed them politics into voting against their own interests

really makes you think

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 12:19:54 2021 No.17959318 File: 148 KB, 434x559, 1479662710842.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 12:20:56 2021 No.17959325 File: 52 KB, 434x424, 1480101985818.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 12:21:58 2021 No.17959332 File: 180 KB, 378x365, 1479701796662.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 12:25:40 2021 No.17959355 File: 85 KB, 708x682, 14994959054w.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 12:26:41 2021 No.17959359 File: 125 KB, 644x598, 148041512468.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 12:42:46 2021 No.17959474 >>17956878 >humor is a great emancipator >Humor is simply lack of predictability combined with lack of power Humor is a form of power, retard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 12:43:38 2021 No.17959479 npcdaily.com :3

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 12:44:48 2021 No.17959490 >>17953929 1984 yes Orwell was a conservative and a socialist

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 13:03:48 2021 No.17959639

>>17953929
Well, where are we placing the Overton window? If were discussing this in the modern Overton window, then literally every political satire book before 2000 is conservative. If it's by the standard of the time in which the book was read, it would be very difficult to actually determine what is and isn't conservative at that time.
So it's all subjective and nothing matters

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 13:12:15 2021 No.17959712 >>17959207 nigga that's textbook foundational conservatism read your fucking Burke smdh senpai

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 13:39:15 2021 No.17959929 >>17958342 Classical liberals aren't conservatives so you can piss off with your big brain shit. Distributism is conservative economics.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 14:48:55 2021 No.17960500 >>17959295 >the various 'comedians' pushed by the left are political activists backed by megacorps Name one

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 14:50:41 2021 No.17960507 >>17960500 I'm getting some "I'm an atheist, debate me" vibes.

KANYE VVEST Tue Apr 6 16:06:53 2021 No.17961064
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>>17953929
>has a conservative ever written a good political satire?
Nigga the first letter has to be a capital letter,are you shy or somethin'?
Get out of here you democrat commie sissy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 16:35:27 2021 No.17961257 >>17960500 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCVBEE1SfXI

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 16:36:34 2021 No.17961270 >>17960500 Carlin, Pryor, etc.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 16:45:57 2021 No.17961341 >>17953929 Anyone identifying as, or labeling others as “conservative” is a dumbass

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 16:49:00 2021 No.17961360 >>17956878 I’m no liberal but this pretty much sums it up

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 17:01:55 2021 No.17961449 The two funniest guys in my friend group is a turbo lib and a full on blue lives matter guy. Anyone can be funny thinking some political side has a monopoly on humor is same gay ass shit

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 17:18:09 2021 No.17961551

This thread really demonstrates the arbitrariness of the “conservative” and “progressive” bifurcation. Through history, conservatives have been the ones showing hesitance for the gradual expansion of rights while progressives have been for it. Why does one “side” have to hate the other? Does it matter?

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 17:31:33 2021 No.17961664

>>17959712
that's like saying, for example, that a communist is a conservative, because he opposes liberal reforms
Machado wasn't a conservative, he held humanistic and progressive views for his time: for one, he was anti-slavery. That was one of the points that dissatisfied him after the abolition, seeing that very little had changed in the life quality of blacks in Brazil

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 17:42:08 2021 No.17961752

>>17961664
You're profoundly ignorant of conservative history. Again you're just describing Burkean thought, historical opposition or skepticism of liberal ideas is TEXTBOOK conservatism.
Which anglosaxonic superpower pushed for abolition, liberal US or conservative UK?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 17:54:12 2021 No.17961832 >>17956878 If Steven Crowder comes to mind when discussing conservatives you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 17:56:47 2021 No.17961853

>>17961551
That's why there's so much confusion, because "progressivism" isn't a thing and people project the modern conservative liberal american right back to every other form of conservatism.
The historical bifurcation is between "conservative" and "liberal", that's what left and right used to mean when politics was relevant and material, from the "end of history" period forward, every party is liberal, and Shapiro-eque neoconservatives stand for national liberalism over individual liberalism.
The vague "progressive" idea could mean anything from a conservative concern with the environment, further individual liberalism or socialism, which is neither liberal or conservative.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:03:12 2021 No.17961900 File: 58 KB, 318x512, clockwork.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:04:15 2021 No.17961908 >>17953929 Jonathan Swift.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:06:00 2021 No.17961917

>>17961551
Also
>Through history, conservatives have been the ones showing hesitance for the gradual expansion of rights while progressives have been for it.
Through history, conservatives have been the rich white men tied to old money with hesitance to the gradual expansion of markets while liberals have been rich white men that profit from it. Simple as.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:06:41 2021 No.17961922
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Michael Anton is currently writing something called "Beto's Republic," which is a "woke" parody of Plato's Republic.

Reminder that he was a member of the US national security council.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:07:21 2021 No.17961926 File: 182 KB, 537x560, 1617617122223.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17953929 DA LEFT DA RIGHT

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:10:34 2021 No.17961945 File: 21 KB, 250x417, bnw.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'm not familiar with the political views of Huxley himself but I'd consider BNW an essentially conservative, almost reactionary, critique of hyperliberal consumer culture.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:13:47 2021 No.17961965

>>17961853
>>17961917
>Through history, conservatives have been the rich white men tied to old money with hesitance to the gradual expansion of markets while liberals have been rich white men that profit from it.
Yea agreed. I just don’t get how people can be conservative. While the critiques they make can be sensible, conservatives always lose in the end, no exceptions. I guess they’re just invested in the romantic aesthetic of dying for a lost cause.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:13:54 2021 No.17961969 >>17954004 >Implying liberalism is not an inherently conservative ideology

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:15:57 2021 No.17961981 >>17961270 Carlin, Pryor and Hicks would unquestionably be against the modern left.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:16:50 2021 No.17961991

>>17961945
Both him and Bradbury have that twinge of resistance to things like consumption, sexual revolution, mindless entertainment, etc that really comes from a conservative mindset. In 1984 "not wanting to offend people" was a major part of why books started getting burned in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:17:59 2021 No.17962000 >>17961991 Sorry, I meant "in Fahrenheit 451"

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:19:04 2021 No.17962011 >>17953929 Machiavelli

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:19:52 2021 No.17962017 >>17961991 In the case of BNW I'd say the resistance is more than a twinge, more like all-out attack

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:20:42 2021 No.17962026 Satire sucks and usually ages terribly. Peepee poopoo jokes are eternal

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:20:45 2021 No.17962027 in the long run, a conservative satire will come to be indistinguishable from a left-wing morality play

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:26:41 2021 No.17962067

>>17961969
Lmao liberalism is the promotion of free markets and an ideology that has existed for hundreds of years. Conservatism was created in mid 20th century America and retroactively cobbled together a lineage through disparate enlightenment dissenters like Burke. It can hardly be considered as distinct from liberalism, considering its core sentiment is
>Yes of course liberalism good, but not tooo much liberalism, we want liberalism but based

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:27:57 2021 No.17962075 File: 57 KB, 553x850, decline and fall.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17961965 >I just don't get how people can be conservative

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:29:13 2021 No.17962088 File: 110 KB, 1280x720, desmond2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17961965

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:29:48 2021 No.17962091 >>17962075 “Conservatism” wouldn’t have prevented the fall of Rome, sorry

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:32:30 2021 No.17962106 >>17962088 So some random kid becomes a tranny, your conservatism can’t stop that. Just turn the tv off and worry about yourself lol

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:34:10 2021 No.17962117 >>17962091 Conservatism destroyed it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:34:56 2021 No.17962124 Lucilius

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:35:54 2021 No.17962132 >>17962106 >nothing matters dude lol just chill out and look after your own interests Read Book I of Plato's Republic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:45:45 2021 No.17962199 >>17961965 Liberalism is not a new phenomenon. Civilizations have been falling and declining for tens of thousands of years. This has all happened before and it will all happen again.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:48:09 2021 No.17962216 >>17962199 There is nothing new under the sun, as they say.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:48:34 2021 No.17962220 File: 24 KB, 500x365, psycho.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17962106 >Just >worry abotu yourself Sounds familiar

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:49:06 2021 No.17962223

The terms left and right come from the French National Assembly, revolutionaries congregated to the left and royalist gathered to the right. The leftist is characterized by a preference for change and reform, a commitment to liberty and equality, an orientation toward progress and the future, while the right is the party of order and tradition, hierarchy, and a disposition to valorize the past.

Premodern political thought understood the human creature to be part of comprehensive natural order. Humans were understood to have a telos, a fixed end, given by nature and unalterable, continuous with the natural world, thus humanity was required to conform with its own nature and that of the greater order which it was part. Human beings could freely act against this nature but doing so harmed the nature of humans and the greater world. Education on how to live according to nature is best practiced through virtue is what allows people to achieve a condition of human flourishing.

Modernity rejected this longstanding view of politics. The foundations of liberalism were laid by a series of thinkers whose central aim was to disassemble what they concluded were irrational religious and social norms in the pursuit of civil peace that might in turn foster stability and prosperity, and eventually individual liberty of conscious and action.

In America, the "conservative" or classical liberal advances a project of individual liberty and equality of opportunity especially through defense of a free and unfettered market while the "liberals" aim at securing greater economic and social equality through extensive reliance on regulatory and judicial powers of the government. The dominating political narrative pits defenders of individual liberty--articulated by authors of the liberal tradition like John Locke and the American Founding Fathers-- Against the statism of "progressive" liberals inspired by figures like John Stuart Mill and John Dewey.

This is the difference between conservatives and the two types of liberals dominating western thought, one of whom calls themselves "conservatives".

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:49:35 2021 No.17962229 >>17962220 >abotu you know what I mean

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:50:30 2021 No.17962240 >>17962117 ? >>17962132 You have no ability to influence politics. Whether you care or not the state does what it wants. Not caring is the saner option. >>17962199 Yeah I’ve read my Spengler

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:51:53 2021 No.17962248 File: 33 KB, 500x333, elagabalus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17962216 There really isn't.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:53:13 2021 No.17962258

>>17961965
That's true. I guess abolition and repealing Jim Crow are the biggest Ws for conservatism, but that just gets wiped away as "progressive" (appropriating every W from both liberals and conservatives with no historical context).
For the modern era conservatives are always on the bleeding edge of shitting up public discourse, with FOX News anticipating the bizarre McCarthyist CNN and MSNBC era and /pol/ all the leftist Twitter doxxing and I guess Tories being the most consistently powerful single political party of the last 50 or so years (consistently doing jackshit), and the brits keeping pet racist reptilians is kinda cute nohomo.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:55:53 2021 No.17962275 >>17962240 >Not caring is the saner option Now you're talking about self-help advice. I was thinking of actual history.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:57:08 2021 No.17962286 >>17962240 >? Decadent (liberal) Rome was defeated by non-decadent (conservative) peoples. It happened before and it will happen again.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 18:59:30 2021 No.17962310 >>17962275 Well, not caring about different outcomes of a historical event also makes for more accurate historicism since you don’t have bias.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:02:16 2021 No.17962336

>>17961965
Also
>I guess they’re just invested in the romantic aesthetic of dying for a lost cause.
I don't know if you're referencing this or if it's your divinely ordained intuition, but you're describing the "father of american conservatism" Russel Kirk to a T, indolent bourgeoisie obsessed with ghost stories because they're romantic, LARPing as a Victorian in a dilapidated house. He's easily the most sound american conservative ideologue (Samuel T. Francis is much more relevant, but he's just a reactionary) of the last 80 or so years and his whole schitck is just waltzing romantic about the road not taken.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:06:05 2021 No.17962360 >>17962310 okay, sure

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:07:25 2021 No.17962369 >>17953929 The greatest political satirist in American history, Tom Wolfe, was a conservative whose works were explicitly conservative. Check out 'I am Charlotte Simmons' and 'Radical Chic and Mau-Mauing the Flak-Catchers'

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:08:47 2021 No.17962383 >>17962223 The American Founding Fathers opposed civil libertarianism, which most modern "conservatives" subscribe to. They weren't libs.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:10:41 2021 No.17962397 File: 18 KB, 415x81, republic.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:11:23 2021 No.17962399 >>17962286 The conservative Roman Republic was defeated by the comparatively more liberal Roman Empire.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:16:14 2021 No.17962428

>>17962399
The transition from Republic to Empire was concomitant with a general expansion of Roman civilization. Rome hit its cultural peak under Augustus and its greatest geographical expanse under Trajan. The collapse took place hundreds of years after Julius Caesar.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:18:03 2021 No.17962440 >>17962428 yeah not gonna lie I didnt read what you were saying when I replied

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:34:32 2021 No.17962533 >>17962027 We crossed that bridge a while ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PObBA2wH5l0

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:37:20 2021 No.17962556 >>17962223 >Modernity rejected this longstanding view of politics So did the Athenians, if you trust Thucydides. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Melos#The_Melian_Dialogue

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:41:27 2021 No.17962580

>>17962383
The political philosophy of the founders was still very much at odds with the premodern philosophy described by the anon you're responding to and was in most respects similar to the thinking of the leaders of the French revolution, the event which marks the decisive end of the age of more or less unquestioned monarchic rule.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:42:10 2021 No.17962588 >>17961360 kek, how? how does humor lack power when a major partof a lot of humor is calling things out for being lesser or stupid or whatever? i cant think of a single thing he said that was right. are you just impressed by big words?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:49:18 2021 No.17962643 >>17962588 Humor backed by enough power is no longer humor.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:51:09 2021 No.17962657 File: 366 KB, 715x507, amy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17960500 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xasxaTL2FzM

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:58:02 2021 No.17962704
File: 376 KB, 703x507, norm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17956878
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MZVHBx6SKo
Norm Macdonald's a conservative. Is openly anti-abortion, has had friendly conversations with Bill O'Reilly and Ann Coulter, is Christian, laments the negative effects of the enlightenment, supported Trump, makes offensive comments about minorities and the disabled. One of the funniest comedians of all time according to most other comedians.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:58:05 2021 No.17962705

>>17962286
From what I can tell Rome was predominately destroyed by itself, but I haven’t read the decline and fall.
>>17962336
>I don't know if you're referencing this or if it's your divinely ordained intuition
It’s the general attitude I’ve gleaned from all conservatives.
>LARPing as a Victorian
Lol unsurprising, many conservatives love the Victorian age because it was the golden years of the British empire which they think was “based” when it actually was the precursor to 20th century Anglo-American globalism! It’s driving ideology was utilitarianism for Christ’s sake. It just goes to show that conservatism is merely a longing for the older form of liberalism. Now to be clear, the patrician’s choice for best period in British history is the Elizabethan era.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 19:59:48 2021 No.17962723 >>17962705 >From what I can tell Rome was predominately destroyed by itself Their decadence (liberalism, not giving a shit about the common good, loss of civic virtue) left them vulnerable to attack.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 20:02:20 2021 No.17962746 File: 30 KB, 512x512, hyde.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17956878 I don't know if you'd call Sam Hyde a conservative but he's definitely not a liberal.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 20:03:56 2021 No.17962760 Wouldn't the antithesis of Conservative be a Progressive, not Liberal?

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 20:09:01 2021 No.17962808

>>17962588
Humor is the revelation of submerged truth through rhetoric. A clever satire written by a middle class writer can ruin an oligarch’s reputation through mobilizing public opinion against him (at least this could happen in the past). It is truth arrived at through wit and shared publicly rather than truth as enforced by an authoritarian state.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 20:09:30 2021 No.17962814 >>17962760 let them be anon, it's not worth it

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 20:12:53 2021 No.17962836 >>17962760 Progressives are liberals.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 20:13:59 2021 No.17962842

>>17962760
The modern progressive is a spoiled, fat kid sitting in the back seat of a car kicking the driver's seat and yelling "are we there yet, are we there yet" as his sweet, indulgent mother (the liberal) drives him to Disneyland. The mother has a lot of money and her son will inherit all of it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 20:17:02 2021 No.17962857 >>17962842 >The modern progressive is a spoiled, fat kid The punchline being he's 28.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 20:17:57 2021 No.17962865

>>17958444
>isnt that ironic considered the nature of the daily show or whatever making fun of hillbillies for not being liberal enough like the trendy urdinite?
Here’s where the “Democrats are the real racists” critique is correct. We’re still not at peak liberalism because our state has developed a protected class people must treat with performative respect. This is reactionary, the truly liberal move would be “colorblindness”, equal distribution of rights for everyone.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 20:18:11 2021 No.17962867 File: 54 KB, 1280x720, milo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17962808 Everyone seems to hate him now but he had a pretty significant impact in 2015-16.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 20:19:12 2021 No.17962870 File: 107 KB, 377x326, 111.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17962857 Nice

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 20:55:20 2021 No.17963125 >>17956878 >conservative mindset, which is just petty, vitriolic hatred for those beneath you imagine being this fucking stupid

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 20:59:32 2021 No.17963156 >>17962867 If your point is that conservatives can produce trite culture war garbage the same way progressives can, then yes, I’d obviously agree.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:02:17 2021 No.17963173 >>17961981 Nah, Carlin might have been the guy who coined the "punching up" terminology.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:03:18 2021 No.17963179

>>17963156
the false equivalence between people who do shit like legislate on the federal level that men have to be allowed in women's sports and push puberty blockers on children on the one side and people who criticize them on the other is fucking retarded. Also Milo was genuinely funny.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:07:25 2021 No.17963199 >>17963173 "Up" in 2021 is the left, or at least what people call the left. Carlin was already going after political correctness and "guilty white liberals" in the nineties, he would be savaging them today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFn13J-btCI

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:09:53 2021 No.17963216 >>17953929 Conservative comedy is just making accurate descriptions of liberals, we don't have to use satire. They're so pathetic, dumb and crazy!

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:14:17 2021 No.17963243

>>17963156
>>17963179
The new tendency to just dismiss it all as "culture war garbage" is coming almost exclusively from people who recognize that what the left is pushing is fucking insane but don't want to get called racist or transphobic and have their lives destroyed over it.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:14:51 2021 No.17963246
File: 81 KB, 564x721, 491187ED-2BE8-404E-A67D-9AD72D8D3475.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17962808
I ardently disagree and that feels both myopic, synthetic, and railroading. humor does not have to revel truth. it can be purposefully obfuscationist or without a point, or having itself the point within itself.

you say this, but a clever middle class satire writer can also ruin some other middle class’s reputation through the mobilization of public opinion for good or ill. petty or high minded reasons.
> It is truth arrived at through wit and shared publicly rather than truth as enforced by an authoritarian state.
its is A truth, AN interpretation, arrived at through wit and shared publicly. its nature as authoritarian or otherwize is contextual. there have been many a good rhetorictition who has got his way through wit. somehow you arived at some ultimate truth in this arbitrarily rather than a contextual or situational or perspective truth.

just look at roman politics and it is rife with satire and humor and wit, oftentimes not in the spirit of truth. look at ceaser. in my opinion i feel you are diluding yourself into portraying it as capital T truth rather than the truth in its subjective form.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:16:25 2021 No.17963255 >>17963246 I don't necessarily disagree but can you give a non-ancient example

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:17:48 2021 No.17963262

>>17962643
is it though? authorization in a small enough context can be the greatest power. if someone listens to a radical podcast rather consistantly that is vary different than the larger context of the power of the greater societies zeitgeist and elite, that one person is still heavily under the circumstantial power of that podcast.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:27:04 2021 No.17963324

>>17963255
>give a non-ancient example
ok, how about memes? people share their petty memes in their in groups, they may have shreads of truth in them, but they are usually rather perspectual. The leftist obviously thinks he is correct, the rightest the same. There is an essential truth that there is a contradiction in affirmative action and meritocracy, but there is also an essential controdiction in meritocracy and a priori position of privilege. in this case a joke could be made at both the pro and anti affirmative action that both are humorous.

or think of steven colbert and shapiro. I don't find either very funny personally, but they both cater to an audience abd do you think either are fulling that in the name of truth?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:34:44 2021 No.17963385 >>17962216 >There is nothing new under the sun >>17962248 Ezra Chapter 4 really sent this home to me.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:40:35 2021 No.17963427

>>17963125
Yea that anon is being hyperbolic but there’s truth to what he’s saying. Conservatives long for a return to the “natural order” where class is firmly established according to traditional norms. That hierarchy allowed things like masters being able to kill their slaves without repercussions. Modern conservatives feel this “natural order” has been strayed from too far and believe some rights that have been gained need to be curtailed according to their conception of tradition.

But there are no transcendental laws on the ordering of society. Human nature isn’t fixed, it’s malleable. And it’s clear to see that as human intelligence grows so does our ability to cooperate (progress is spiralic, not linear, there are rises and falls). That’s why the development of human culture is so important. Literacy is what divides us from animals, without it we fall back to their status.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:49:46 2021 No.17963474 >>17963427 nice retarded freshman thesis.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:50:58 2021 No.17963479

>>17963179
>push puberty blockers on children
Do you actually think that happens? Puberty blockers are completely reversible and have already been in use for children that mature dangerously early.

If there is a medical consensus that it can help other illnesses (gender dysphoria) I don't see the issue.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:56:18 2021 No.17963495

>>17963324
>they may have shreads of truth in them, but they are usually rather perspectual
The more truth there is in them the more funny they are, typically.
>think of steven colbert and shapiro. I don't find either very funny personally
Neither do I, and I'd be prepared to say they're objectively unfunny, in large part because they can't be honest. Their audiences have bad taste.
>but there is also an essential controdiction in meritocracy and a priori position of privilege
I tend to agree, but one of those truths is more obscured than the other.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:56:30 2021 No.17963498

>>17963479
Puberty blockers are easily reversible insofar as you can stop taking them, but if you were intended to go through male puberty, delayed it, and then expected everything to go as planned you have entered the realm of self-experimentation at best, and self-harm at worst.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 21:58:51 2021 No.17963507 >>17963479 >If there is a medical consensus that it can help other illnesses (gender dysphoria) I don't see the issue. Evil

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:02:19 2021 No.17963522 >>17958457 J Edgar Hoover was gay af

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:06:50 2021 No.17963539

>>17963495
>The more truth there is in them the more funny they are, typically.
maybe, but i find a lot of it requires a heightened sense of implicitly. again, unless we are talking about abstract philosophy there is very little that is capital T truth rather than a perspectorial one.
> I tend to agree, but one of those truths is more obscured than the other.
agrred. i feel meritocracy, despite aprioi position, is more in line with the spirit of the law, but I am not so myopic that the other point doesnt also hold some wait.

personally, I enjoy humor that is somewhat abstracted from contextual reality as it allows more play in the hypothetical and helps avoid the explicit. if you got to say “x means y” and loose the nuance to a joke to a direct narrow interpretation, its looses much of its luster by restricting the implicit and being prescriptive with the subject in a way that might not necessarily be absolute.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:08:11 2021 No.17963548

>>17963246
>it can be purposefully obfuscationist or without a point, or having itself the point within itself.
This can all reveal truth tho. I remember this one yt channel I used to watch https://m.youtube.com/c/MemeAnalysis/videos Basically what this guy does is analyze memes usually through a Jungian perspective. Even the most seemingly pointless memes are saying something interesting when you understand their context.
>just look at roman politics and it is rife with satire and humor and wit, oftentimes not in the spirit of truth.
So what if it wasn’t done in the “spirit” of truth?, it can still reveal truth nonetheless.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:10:18 2021 No.17963560 >>17963474 Cope

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:11:14 2021 No.17963568

>>17963427
There is a type of humor that is just pure top-down savagery (burning hundred dollar bills in front of a homeless person, stuff like that) but it's not what conservatism or the right-wing tendency is fundamentally about. It's an obscene exaggeration.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:12:48 2021 No.17963578 >>17957219 I doubt he’s an anarchist. He would never want to be lumped in with an Emma Goldman

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:17:12 2021 No.17963599

>>17963548
will this can all be true, anything can be true from a particular lense, even the absurd.

I usually dislike people analyzing memes, because they often come off in a myopic and too narrow of a way. a big part of humor is in implicitcy, creating an explicit point ofteb times devalues its essense. its one thing to say “this is one i terpretation, or maybe more acurately, one ASPECT, of the jest” which i think is fine, but often times people too readily go to “this is what the joke IS” rather than what I like about it. Like you get fucking retarded youtubers who think they can deconstruct a meme only to come up with a particular interpretation and proclaim it truth (often a fucking mind numbingly stupid one, i remember Vaush trying to do this and it turned me off his channel entirely).

Sometimes a central point does seem to be a driving force though, i do t want to imply there is never a blunt “point” to a joke. just that people are often way too particular and not broad enough in its analysis.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:17:58 2021 No.17963606 >>17961922 sounds like absolute shit

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:18:21 2021 No.17963608

>>17963539
>there is very little that is capital T truth rather than a perspectorial one
Carlin once said something to the effect that the core of humor is two or more people recognizing that they share some perspective or idea. I think a lot of memes are basically that. So I think we basically agree. Joking that Caesar takes it up the ass (I'm not sure if that's what you were referring to but it works) can be funny if multiple people think it even if it's not actually true.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:18:56 2021 No.17963612

>>17963179
>>17963243
Quit watching tv and scrolling through Twitter and go outside. Go to a high school soccer game. Is there a team of trans women (men) destroying the female team? No. There’s an incredibly slim chance you see one trans woman playing and even if you do does it really matter? Go to a hospital. Are children being forced puberty blockers out of the womb? No. How is it not clear to you that media is designed to make you stressed about nothing?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:19:23 2021 No.17963614 >>17963606 Yeah

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:25:51 2021 No.17963654

>>17963498
Self-experimentation? What? It's a globally recognized option for treatment, not some perfect cure. Or do you think WHO is just quacks? Families don't make these decisions lightly, even for things other than gender incongruence, such as ADHD (which is treated awfully in America) in which medications have effects on puberty as well. We should weigh our options concerning these things instead of dismissing them wholly.

>>17963507
Nice argument

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:28:26 2021 No.17963676

>>17963612
This "nothing's really happening bro just go for a walk in the park bro" is cope. Our society is totally and completely fucked. The federal government mandating that men must be allowed to participate in women's sports (I repeat: that men must be allowed to participate in women's sports) isn't the most important thing going on but I use it because it's the most obviously absurd. Sure there's a big outrage industry on the go right now, but it wouldn't be there if there was nothing to be outraged about.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:29:28 2021 No.17963686 >>17963654

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:31:54 2021 No.17963706

>>17963608
>Joking that Caesar takes it up the ass (I'm not sure if that's what you were referring to but it works) can be funny if multiple people think it even if it's not actually true.
while yes, but i was more widely pointing to roman politics in general, especially when reading stuff around the fall of the republic with a lot of romes greatest oritors like cicero, Caeser, and Cato. The point being their powers of retoric in swaying the masses in whatever which way and flaunting or seemingly reinforcing laws depending on context.
Carlin once said something to the effect that the core of humor is two or more people recognizing that they share some perspective or idea. I think a lot of memes are basically that.
id say thats a pretty compelling stance. if i might be soo bold as to extrapolate, id say a lot of alt-right memes take off, or at least those in that vein, is because it’s audacious in a sensation rather than necissarily ideologically bound. triggering a sensation, implicit and more widely commonly shared in its basic elements rather than an abstraction of a compiled contextual stance.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:33:29 2021 No.17963713 File: 1.88 MB, 1122x1445, xi43.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17963676

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:34:12 2021 No.17963718 >>17963676 >Our society is totally and completely fucked. Yes and we can’t change it, don’t stress about things out of your control

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:34:54 2021 No.17963722

>>17961965
Live in a low trust society and you'll quickly come to understand the merits of close knit family units, loyalty between friends and the importance of having a religion that you can continue to draw strength from after everything inevitably goes to shit, because the world is a bitch.
Liberalism is the byproduct of a degenerating society.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:35:34 2021 No.17963729 >>17963474 sweet intellectual response

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:38:20 2021 No.17963745 >>17963722 You can still have all these things

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:38:40 2021 No.17963749 >>17963718 I'm not looking for self-help advice. Refusing to engage with reality because it's unpleasant is fucking pathetic. The fact that you can't do much to change it doesn't mean you can't recognize what's happening around you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:40:04 2021 No.17963758 >>17963745 It's much harder than it used to be.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:40:26 2021 No.17963762 File: 49 KB, 1068x601, 4didq95z4au31.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17963749 >What, you just refuse to engage with reality because it is unpleasant and you can't change it?? Yes

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:43:12 2021 No.17963776 >>17963762 lol fair enough

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:45:23 2021 No.17963793

>>17963729
yah, because i responded to more worthwhile posts instead with effort.

it just stunk of a middling though, feeling the necessity to point out that progress is spiralic not liniar, giving a nothing point like Human nature isn’t fixed, it’s malleable. needing to write in antithetical notions then giving a petty ender like
> Literacy is what divides us from animals, without it we fall back to their status.
its the stuff i see in freshmen writing and failed bloggers.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:46:36 2021 No.17963804 >>17963713 >he said while baiting china do bunkerboys really?

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:47:03 2021 No.17963809

>>17963749
>Refusing to engage with reality because it's unpleasant is fucking pathetic.
Lmao spouting off on /lit/ about puberty blockers and trannies is “engaging with reality?” I know all the conservative talking points, I’ve had this exact conversation online many times. If this is “reality” I’ve mastered it. Don’t get me wrong I’m not pro lgbt, I just dgaf, and if I did give a fuck what would change? Nothing.

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:47:28 2021 No.17963813

>>17963758
Do you not think there's things a society or government can do to change that? Is the megachurch not to blame, for focusing on profits instead of community outreach? Is the corporation not to blame, for not paying parents enough to have time to play with their kids?

Loyalty between friends and families requires public spaces, something forsaken by our culture. The last public space we all truly use is the school, where young Americans have 13 years to try and make lifelong friends, because you won't make them switching jobs, or moving to a different town. We have a community problem. There are lots of things we can do to fix it

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:50:36 2021 No.17963832 >>17963809 Fine, "commenting on reality" then you pedantic fuck. Not as good as a book but the same concept. But your deeper point, that this is a waste of time, is true, so I'm out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReEgXh-wURs

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:52:07 2021 No.17963848 >>17963793 And yet you provide no critique. You just said, “this is cliche.” Ok, and? I don’t claim to possess a revelatory truth.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:53:20 2021 No.17963856 >>17963832 Peace out anon

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:53:49 2021 No.17963859 >>17963793 >say he makes "nothing points" >call the language petty >now call him a high schooler Is this how you argue? Please don't tell me you think yourself clever at all

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:56:11 2021 No.17963872 >>17963848 i disnt because i simply wanted to state my disatisfaction with it, i did not feel like using the energy to critique it. but thanks to your (you) you gave me the youdorphines to respond as to my reason.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:57:13 2021 No.17963876 >>17963859 im not arguing, im saying my gripes with the writing formate, not his thesis.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:57:36 2021 No.17963881 >>17963568 >It's an obscene exaggeration. Sure it’s an exaggeration but exaggerations are based off something

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 22:59:50 2021 No.17963898

>>17963809
im more against it because it creates a idea and paradigm that wasn't there before with no tangible benefits and promotes a fay sort of idealism that reinterpreted the base of societal implications in an antithetical way that more is a gripe machine than anything. if it was a quite thing that trannies did sans prostylatizing i'm ok.

I guess its all about formatting.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:00:50 2021 No.17963904 >>17963876 Ok, so we're into semantics now. You're just saying his points are wrong and unnecessary to make, not "arguing" with him. Are you ESL?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:03:51 2021 No.17963926 >>17963904 they are not wrong they are just presented in a gay way.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:04:17 2021 No.17963929 >>17963599 Fair enough, but what if you were to do a comparative study of those analyses. Would you then get closer to the truth?

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:07:16 2021 No.17963949 >>17963872 Glad I could help with your dopamine dependency friendo

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:07:42 2021 No.17963955 >>17956878 this is the most beautiful bait i have ever read here

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:10:49 2021 No.17963974 >>17963926 How so?

Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:11:52 2021 No.17963981

>>17963929
maybe, though i would expect in comparative analysis the “truth” would become abstracter and abstracter until the point is a mostly extra-contextual statement. like “as above, so bellow” or “if it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck...” or “not everything is what it seems” or otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:14:57 2021 No.17963995 >>17954000 the clouds is fucking hilarious

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:15:52 2021 No.17964001 >>17963981 Short phrases like “as above, so below” are some of the wisest pieces of language we have tho, they’re the subjects of meditation by sages

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:17:42 2021 No.17964008 This is one of the worst quality threads I have ever seen on /lit/.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:20:31 2021 No.17964029 >>17964008 why

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:21:14 2021 No.17964034 >>17964001 this is true, but they can be widely and contextully applied in many ways. often times being very much true, other times possibly obscuring another veiw.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:22:16 2021 No.17964040 >>17964008 you know that is patently false. either that or you are a newfrien extraordinaire

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:29:07 2021 No.17964081 >>17954005 Men Rape.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:30:42 2021 No.17964090 >>17959192 I still can't tell if it's an elaborate joke.

>>	Anonymous Tue Apr 6 23:37:05 2021 No.17964130 >>17964034 Agreed

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 7 00:12:10 2021 No.17964343 >>17963881 Your insecurities

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 7 00:24:18 2021 No.17964414 >>17963995 I'm partial to The Frogs. The opening scene is one of the funniest things I've read in literature.

Anonymous Wed Apr 7 00:30:16 2021 No.17964454
File: 65 KB, 400x600, whatture.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17963955
I don't think it's bait, he makes an OK point. A lot of the funny shit /pol/ was doing in 2015-16 (the beginning of Crowder and Shapiro types) is based off the assumption that men (sometimes specifically white men) are the truly oppressed/ losing power.

It starts on /v/ with Gamergate, where Zoe Quinn and her "feminist kin" are ruining game journalism. This is where our anti-SJW memes start, but also a sort of political movement, or at least a narrative. This is 2013, where we still use Impact text on animal memes. This narrative grows the entire time, and we know all memes come from 4chan, so it spreads wide.

By 2016, /pol/ is blaming niggers, trannies, jews, fags, whatever, and calling for a "return to tradition." This is the alt-right, an emotional movement with many parts, some of them racist, but the majority hateful. Remember shadilay on Election night? That was amazing.

But how many people actually read the studies on infographics? How many people would defend their ideas past "it made sense when I read it"? The talking heads began to fall, or be replaced. Remember Richard Spencer?

So how much truth is in that hate? I think it's mainly a reaction to a changing world, maybe some learned prejudice, whatever. I think the sweeping arguments like "This all started when we gave women the right to vote" are pretty retarded. But I do enjoy engaging in arguments over actual issues like immigration crises, economic systems, de-platforming, gun rights, etc.. Those feel like things worth discussing.

At the same time, smartphones and the social media boom meant the internet usership went from 413 million in 2000 to 3.4 billion by 2016. That is a lot of newfags.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 7 00:32:32 2021 No.17964467 >>17954005 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdjY_UnNtQ4

Anonymous Wed Apr 7 00:33:10 2021 No.17964473

>>17964454
>It starts on /v/ with Gamergate, where Zoe Quinn and her "feminist kin" are ruining game journalism.
Gamergate is always so funny to me because it was such a small thing and all these gamers got so pissed. I remember watching Anita Sarkeesian a couple years ago and just not understanding why everybody got so mad at her back in 2015-16. gamers are wild

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 7 00:37:33 2021 No.17964503 File: 585 KB, 2160x1152, 6f7a9b_5276048.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17964473 Lol, at the time it seemed very important. I played games and was on /v/ all day and I'm sure a lot of people back then were too.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 7 00:38:42 2021 No.17964512 >>17960507 >It's pedantic to ask the claimant to prove his claim The absolute state of this board

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 7 00:58:25 2021 No.17964612 >>17962657 didn't chucky also ghostwrite for snl at some point?

Anonymous Wed Apr 7 01:23:45 2021 No.17964702

>>17964473
I always find reflecting back on gamergate very amusing. It’s incredibly dated now because of how fast the internet moves. In fact a month ago I pulled up some old Sargon livestream with another yt skeptic where they were covering the latest gamergate minutia. It was hilarious observing their primitive level of culture war “discourse” in comparison to the accelerated state it’s in now.
>this is about ethics in game journalism
>sure you have the right to say whatever you want but this sjw stuff is getting out of hand
>no I’m a classical liberal
>they literally just lied and thought they could get away with it?!?!
It’s quaint in retrospect but was a microcosm for what was to come.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 7 01:55:14 2021 No.17964807 >>17964473 >>17964702 I remember when Wikileaks told them to 'level up' to CNN.

>>	Anonymous Wed Apr 7 02:19:18 2021 No.17964901 >>17963898 It would be a quiet thing, if people just stopped caring about it. Believe it or not, trannies just want to live their lives too.

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/lit/ - Literature