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/lit/ - Literature

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17952250 No.17952250 [Reply] [Original]

Name one book more overrated than this. Muslims act like it is some perfect, irreplicable masterpiece, but in reality it was repetitive, contextless, garbled and boring. Highly disappointing

>> No.17952259

>>17952250
I concede that it must be better in arabic, but I had the same reaction as you.

>> No.17952273

>>17952250
It was rushed through production and not properly edited

>> No.17952290

>>17952250
Are there any like, deeply spiritual parts of the Quran? Like I always hear quotes of wisdom from Buddhist lit or some profound bible quotes but not from the Quran

>> No.17952322

disingenuous thread of bad faith

>> No.17952489

>it’s a muhammad seems nice until his message gets rejected, then he kills a bunch of dudes in mecca and becomes more and more bloodthirsty the more political power he acquires episode

>> No.17952517

>>17952250
>didnt read it in arabic
ngmi

>> No.17952526

>>17952250
>it was repetitive, contextless, garbled and boring
The same could be said about the Bible.

>> No.17952533

>>17952489
Read the biography of Muhammad (pbuh) and then apologise.

>> No.17952544

>>17952526
It does not matter, don't try to cause problems between Muslims and Christians we are natural allies against many foes.

>> No.17952545

What is it with the Muslim larpers on this board? You are not fooling anybody.

>> No.17952561
File: 46 KB, 648x633, E9A08B02-5167-4744-9B2B-16E815B782FB.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17952561

These types of posts don’t ameliorate the state of this board

>> No.17952822

>>17952290
>Are there any like, deeply spiritual parts of the Quran?
Surah al-hadid comes to mind but no, it's not an especially quotable or profound book, especially when compared with how the same tales are told in the bible
>inb4 you gotta learn Arabic

>> No.17952833

>>17952526
Not really. Bible is at the very least well structured, with the books being separated into historic, wisdom, prophets, and so on, and there is a great deal of context, one could argue even too much since most of the annoying repetition comes from the historical books. Boring is subjective, but I found the writing much more engaging than the very short and random surah

>> No.17952860

>>17952250
>Muslims act like it is some perfect, irreplicable masterpiece
Gee it's almost like they have some kind of bias towards it or something. Good for you for reading it and finding out for yourself what's the deal with it, but you don't have to be bitter about not finding it good. You just got memed into reading a religious text

>> No.17952896

You read it,but did you understand it?

>> No.17952966

>>17952250
>Muslims act like it is some perfect, irreplicable masterpiece
Because they've been taught that since they were born. The majority of them cant understand a word, its just the melodious recitation that makes them believe what they've been told about it being amazing.

>> No.17953017

>>17952545
What's the matter christcuck? Scared your safespace is being run over by the one true faith? Afraid once we take over you won't get to keep sucking dick? Turn the other cheek faggot

>> No.17953044

>>17953017
I'm not a Christian. Stop playing pretend on the internet, you have never stepped foot into a mosque and you never will.

>> No.17953086

>>17953044
Cope

>> No.17953087

>>17953044
dragged, let's see if he can recover

>> No.17953094
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17953094

>>17952250

>> No.17953127

>>17952250
>perfect, irreplicable masterpiece
It is because it's given by Allah swt. Everything else is subjective.

>> No.17953157
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17953157

Masterpiece is not even appropriate, it is the Mizan

https://pastebin.com/CKbsaqE0

>> No.17953167

>>17952860
You'll swallow your words upon reading it or when realizing how many people convert after reading it for the first time.

>> No.17953178

>>17953167
I have read it. It's the worst book I have ever read by far. But I am not mad about it
>how many people convert after reading it
Good for them. Not for me though

>> No.17953207

>>17953167
Have you watched their conversion stories on youtube? Most of them are ignorant uneducated white chavs, bogans or white trash. Those kind of people don't have the critical thinking skills to sit back for a second and question whether or not its really the truth and perform a proper investigation, regardless of their emotional reaction to hearing it. They just react and follow emotions.

>> No.17953223

>>17953207
You could say it's a spiritual experience? Sounds like that's the point ofreligion

>> No.17953234

I spent the night reading two Surahs of the Quran, and as a result I am filled with strength and peace. To those who deny the Book, at least try listening to its Arabic recitation on youtube.

>> No.17953237

>>17953223
these kind of emotions aren't spiritual. you can have an emotional reaction to something that is totally false, even though you've been misled into believing it's true.

>> No.17953244

>>17953237
Well I don't see you arguing for how it is false? Any proof? Not even an argument? Disappointing

>> No.17953251

>>17953207
If someone believes in the articles of faith and will declare themselves Muslim by saying the shahada then that person is a Muslim. It doesn't matter if they are ordinary people or scholars or well-spoken or not. Do you know the articles of faith?

>> No.17953273

>>17952250
The Gathas (only part to go back to Zoroaster) is better than all of them.

>> No.17953286

>>17953251
None of that matters if islam is false. The fact that its mostly ignorant drug fucked white trash who are converting says something.

>> No.17953314

>>17953286
Explain how it is false bitch boy you little clown

>> No.17953359

>>17952290
The Quran is all about law and power dynamics. There’s nothing spiritual about it.

>> No.17953362

>>17953286
>mostly ignorant drug fucked white trash who are converting
*citation required*

Whether the religion is true or false is totally irrelevant to the necessary conditions required, as in the beliefs, for someone to convert.

>> No.17953369

>>17952250
not literature

>> No.17953372

>>17953234
What difference is it going to make? Isn't it going to sound like complete gibberish to anyone who does not speak arab? Is the recitation all that matters with the actual content of the surah being secondary? You describe it like it has the same effect of sissy hypnosis videos

>> No.17953381

>>17953369
How is it not literature dumbass

>> No.17953391

>>17953381
because it's scripture, retard

>> No.17953404

>>17953372
You can learn Al-Fatiha in Arabic in a day if you want to, then read a bit of tafsir and you'll learn all the meaning of the words pretty easily.

>> No.17953418

>>17952896
How could anyone understand it? The book has no chronological order, and whenever the book contradicts itself, it means one verse was replaced by a new one (and there's no indication about which one is the last). This is a book which proclaims to be clear and sufficient but it is not and I cannot trust the traditions surrounding it for the correct explanation - not even the Shahada is the same, depending on who you ask to. Such is the state of the muslim world that muslims killed more muslims that all their enemies ever did, yet they'll talk about 'Umma' like they're one body.

>>17953207
People who converted in my country used to be what we call 'orientalists', upper class people, scholars, who fell in love with the arabic/persian culture, much like René Guénon (pbuh). Nowadays it's trash people becoming Sunni on a whim, which is a weird change. Time will tell.

>> No.17953433

>>17953362
ignorant people are easily convinced by rhetoric, which is all the quran has.

>> No.17953445

>>17953418
>and there's no indication about which one is the last
There is.
>different shahada
The essential meaning is always the same, sometimes there's a little added though not in conflict with the two core tenets. Unless you're referring to some sect, I don't know.

>> No.17953453

>>17953433
You can say the same about any faith, and yet you are persecuting only Muslim. This is why we need jihad more than ever

>> No.17953465

>>17953234
>at least try listening to its Arabic recitation on youtube
"Abragamrasuuuuuuq bramislacoooooook vatisaaaaami shalamisiammmmmmmmm"
That's all I hear.

>> No.17953468

>>17953453
i dont like christianity, judaism or buddhism either.

>> No.17953470

>>17953453
big deal people make fun of my christianity all the time

>> No.17953478

>>17952250
Name a novel people can easily memorize word by word and not just by a few autistis but millions of people. I’ll wait

>> No.17953489
File: 307 KB, 1000x1250, Kanye-West-Is-Now-Officially-A-Billionaire-According-To-Forbes-.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17953489

>>17953478
Probably Kanye's book

>> No.17953492

>>17953470
And that's why your faith is losing steam all across the West while we are growing stronger and stronger. Because you allow them to mock you and are not willing to fight

>> No.17953494

>>17953433
If some non-Muslim believes in the same six articles of faith as what is in Islam and will profess his faith openly by saying the shahada then that's it, that's basically the minimum to convert to Islam. Nobody can become Muslim if he is so ignorant that he can't understand this.

>> No.17953502

>>17953492
lol okay

>> No.17953527

>>17953494
You’re encouraging people to be hypocrites, senpai. You know Islam considers hypocrites waaaay worse than disbelievers and they are the most punished in hell? Allah hates pretend Muslims way more than non-Muslims. Don’t encourage that cursed fate where people openly pretend to be Muslims.

>> No.17953528

>>17953492
I'm a Muslim and I argue against people who are mocking or trying to mock Christians. Causing trouble between Muslims and Christians is also not something an intelligent person would do.

>> No.17953594

>>17953167
IHow many of them had no other interaction with the religion before reading it?

>> No.17953696

>>17953418
The Qur'an contaains no contradictions.

>> No.17953930

>>17953696
What was man created from: blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
“Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood,” (96:2).
“We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
“The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: “Be”. And he was,” (3:59).
“But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?” (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
“He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
“And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam,” (39:12).
“When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: “O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee.” Allah said: “By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me.” When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: “Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe.” (7:143).
“And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; “Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam,” (2:132).

>> No.17953951

>>17953930
Sorry there are volumes of works which manage to rationalize anything that appears to be a contradiction away.

>> No.17954001

>>17953527
Actually the opposite. Hypocrites express belief but don't hold it internally, I'm saying that to convert to Islam the person must believe internally first and then express belief outwardly.

>> No.17954091

>>17953930
The first one describes the process of an embryo growing out whereas the second line is the creation of Adam and Eve.

Frankly that alone speaks volumes about your ignorance in this conversation and I will not address anything else because I have proven my point.

>> No.17954144

>>17952250
Chapter Recitation: The Resurrection
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R1JEthK29MU&pp=QACIAgA%3D
with subtitles

Chapter: The Reality
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DKLS45PNT0A

>> No.17954187

>>17953930
>What was man created from: blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
> “Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood,” (96:2).
> “We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
What is cake created from: milk, flour, eggs or nothing?
Jesus christ man go back to r/atheism

>> No.17954205

>>17952250
"THE DAY
We seal up their mouths, and their hands speak out to Us and their feet bear witness as to what they used to earn.
66. And had We willed, We verily could have quenched their eyesight so that they should struggle for the way. Then how could they have seen ?
67. And had We willed, We verily could have fixed them in their place, making them powerless to go forward or turn back.
68. He whom we bring unto old age, We reverse him in creation (making him go back to weakness after strength). Have ye then no sense ?
69. And We have not taught him (Muhammad) poetry, nor is it meet for him. This is naught else than a Reminder and a Lecture making plain,
70. To warn whosoever liveth, and that the word may be fulfilled against the disbelievers.

>> No.17954212

>>17952250
which translated version is the standard to read?

>> No.17954242

>>17954212
http://www.koran-at-a-glance.com

(Ignore the polemics)

>> No.17954257

>>17954091
Cope

>> No.17954291

>>17952250
"By the snorting coursers,
2. Striking sparks of fire
3. And scouring to the raid at dawn,
4. Then, therewith, with their trail of dust,
5. Cleaving, as one, the centre (of the foe),
6. Lo! man is an ingrate unto his Lord
7. And lo! he is a witness unto that;
8. And lo! in the love of wealth he is violent.
9. Knoweth he not that, when the contents of the graves are poured forth
10. And the secrets of the breasts are made known,
11. On that day will their Lord be perfectly informed concerning them.

>> No.17954306

>>17952250
"By the morning hours
2. And by the night when it is stillest,
3. Thy Lord hath not forsaken thee nor doth He hate thee,
4. And verily the latter portion will be better for thee than the former,
5. And verily thy Lord will give unto thee so that thou wilt be content.
6. Did He not find thee an orphan and protect (thee) ?
7. Did He not find thee wandering and direct (thee) ?
8. Did He not find thee destitute and enrich (thee) ?
9. Therefor the orphan oppress not,
10. Therefor the beggar drive not away,
11. Therefor of the bounty of thy Lord be thy discourse."

>> No.17954342

>>17952250
"1.When the sun is overthrown,
2. And when the stars fall,
3. And when the hills are moved,
4. And when the camels big with young are abandoned,
5. And when the wild beasts are herded together,
6. And when the seas rise,
7. And when souls are reunited,
8. And when the girl-child that was buried alive is asked
9. For what sin she was slain,
10. And when the pages are laid open,
11. And when the sky is torn away,
12. And when hell is lighted,
13. And when the Garden is brought nigh,
14. (Then) every soul will know what it hath made ready.
15. Oh, but I call to witness the planets,
16. The stars which rise and set,
17. And the close of night,
18. And the breath of morning
19. That this is in truth the word of an honoured messenger,
20. Mighty, established in the presence of the Lord of the Throne,
21. (One) to be obeyed, and trustworthy;
22. And your comrade is not mad.
23. Surely he beheld Him on the clear horizon.
24. And he is not avid of the Unseen.
25. Nor is this the utterance of a devil worthy to be stoned.
26. Whither then go ye ?
27. This is naught else than a reminder unto creation,
28. Unto whomsoever of you willeth to walk straight. (abr. 81:29)
29. And ye will not, unless (it be) that Allah willeth, the Lord of Creation.

>> No.17954387

>>17952250
"He said: Ye have chosen only idols instead of Allah. The love between you is only in the life of this world. Then on the Day of Resurrection ye will deny each other and curse each other, and your abode will be the Fire, and ye will have no helpers.
26. And Lot believed him, and said: Lo! I am a fugitive unto my Lord. Lo! He, only He, is the Mighty, the Wise."

>> No.17954438

>>17952250
"And how many an animal there is that beareth not its own provision! Allah provideth for it and for you. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
61. And if thou wert to ask them: Who created the heavens and the earth, and constrained the sun and the moon (to their appointed work) ? they would say: Allah. How then are they turned away ?
62. Allah maketh the provision wide for whom He will of His bondmen, and straiteneth it for whom (He will). Lo! Allah is Aware of all things.
63. And if thou wert to ask them: Who causeth water to come down from the sky, and therewith reviveth the earth after its death ? they verily would say: Allah. Say: Praise be to Allah! But most of them have no sense.
64. This life of the world is but a pastime and a game. Lo! the home of the Hereafter - that is Life, if they but knew.
65. And when they mount upon the ships they pray to Allah, making their faith pure for Him only, but when He bringeth them safe to land, behold! they ascribe partners (unto Him),
66. That they may disbelieve in that which We have given them, and that they may take their ease. But they will come to know.
67. Have they not seen that We have appointed a sanctuary immune (from violence), while mankind are ravaged all around them ? Do they then believe in falsehood and disbelieve in the bounty of Allah ?
68. Who doeth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie concerning Allah, or denieth the truth when it cometh unto him ? Is not there a home in hell for disbelievers ?
69. As for those who strive in Us, We surely guide them to Our paths, and lo! Allah is with the good.

>> No.17954469

>>17952250
>>17952290
You don't get it, the Quran is not a novel, you only see/feel the whole power when you recite the arabic version.
Take that for example. You read it in english and listen to the version how it should be read at the same time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVQpebO1UcE

>> No.17954547

>>17954438
>>17954387
>>17954342
>>17954306
>>17954291
>>17954205
>the Islamic relationship with god is entirely transactional and and rooted in domination
Such deep spirituality you guys have.

>> No.17954617

Haven't read this yet, the bible is pretty great tho, reading it now

>> No.17954697

>>17954469
Voltaire said something like, if something is too stupid to be told it becomes acceptable as a song.

>> No.17954749

It's a rulebook. What gripping epic narrative did you expect from it, and how retarded must you be to assume otherwise?

>> No.17954752

>>17952489
>he kills a bunch of dudes in mecca
read more

>> No.17955093

>>17954749
Can you blame someone from expecting a lot from a book that a billion people claim is the absolute pinnacle of the written word?

>> No.17955116

>>17955093
>Can you blame someone from expecting a lot
Yes, I can. Still not anywhere near as overrated as the Bhagavad Gita. And that was actually TRYING to be an epic story.

>> No.17955953

>>17953157
What translation is that? It’s got power

>> No.17956038

>>17953244
He doesn't need to prove it's false, we can just assume that something is false until proven otherwise. Stop shifting the burden of proof. Regardless, let me just grant for the sake of argument that they did have some kind of spiritual experience (such evidence is purely anecdotal BTW), how the fuck does that prove that the Qur'an is the Word of God or that Allah is real?

>> No.17956139

>>17954091
Lmao massive cope

>> No.17956158

>>17956038
It doesn't and it never will. Muslims love going in circles untill you apparently "insult" their God, when they suddenly turn bloodthirsty and start beheading people.

>> No.17956225

>>17954091
this is cope asf

>> No.17956292

>>17953930
96:2 "We created Man from a Clot (Khalaq Insan min Alaq)
" is the real translation, thats it

"Does man not remember that We created him before, while he was
nothing?" Is the real translation

The word Dust is Al-Turab, usually meaning Soil. The translators just went for the most respectful translation, choosing the familiar Biblical 'dust to dust'

>> No.17956314

>>17955116
If you thought the Bhagavad Gita was supposed to be a story you were filtered so hard it’s not even funny. I’m sure you didn’t even understand it

>> No.17956402

>>17952290
I like the parts where Satan talks

>> No.17956458

>>17953930
Bro there literally happened to be a whole verse refuting this:
"O mankind! if ye are in doubt concerning the Resurrection, then lo! We have created you from dust, then from a drop of seed, then from a clot, then from a little lump of flesh shapely and shapeless, that We may make (it) clear for you. And We cause what We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed time, and afterward We bring you forth as infants, then (give you growth) that ye attain your full strength. And among you there is he who dieth (young), and among you there is he who is brought back to the most abject time of life, so that, after knowledge, he knoweth naught. And thou (Muhammad) seest the earth barren, but when We send down water thereon, it doth thrill and swell and put forth every lovely kind (of growth).
6. That is because Allah, He is the Truth and because He quickeneth the dead, and because He is Able to do all things; "

>> No.17956498

>>17956314
Someone better tell all those rhodes scholars they all have low IQs, too, then

>> No.17956646

>>17955953
See filename

>> No.17956773

>>17953492
Macron 4D chess'd your camel hair crusted ass monthd ago by having you choose between chimping out or appearing cucked. You chose to kvetch about injustice and organise a boycott while (muslim) Uyghurs in China didn't get 1 percent of the effort involved.

>> No.17956938

>>17952250
the Qur'an says that most disbelievers are literally barred by Allah from truly *hearing* and *reciting* the Qur'an. Most muslims don't even read that much of the Qur'an. Ibn Hazm says, things that are difficult to enter, are difficult to leave the soul. When you read the Qur'an, you yourself already had the slander of God's message in your mind, so you read and of course, you, like a chained man, deaf and dumb, were unable to actually read the what the Qur'an is essentialy. God has closed the doors of your heart, and you forever will be so.

>> No.17956964

>>17956938
>Like a chained man

Lmao do muzcucks really think this.

You guys literally worship a pedo warlord and are not allowed to question him. Then you come here to lecture us about being chained.

>> No.17956975

>>17956938
nigga its not as esoteric as you this common muslim retort you peddled.
the whole book was "join us or get hell after death" written for the common men of arabia hundreds of years ago. it didnt play out intense arguments (like christian theologians) nor spiritual disclosure (like upanishads). it appealed to the pleb normies of old arabia as simple as possible, of course the current men cant get swayed by it because we have overcome those level of consciousness.

>> No.17956977

>>17952250
You're an absolute fucking moron if you think "contextless" is a criticism.

You're also a moron if you think it was garbled, and cannot understand the many methods which it instructs.

The Quran is not a boring read, if anything it is one of the most invigorating books to read.

A valid criticism would be that it is the work of pure evil, because it's methods compile together to construct a multi methodical and deception based cult which endlessly expands like a cancer.

>> No.17956986

>>17953157
great pastebin, but stop using discord

>> No.17957018

>>17956964
>>17956975
i sense you are offended by my words. being chained is what the Quran uses to describe those who slander the Quran. You call me dumb for saying this, yet Plato said the same thing, adressing those who deny what he says and are blind to Reality. Did Plato write for the unintelligent masses? Is he an idiot too?

>> No.17957021

>>17952250
The problem with the quran is that its just so poor, compared with the Bible or even the Edda. No metaphorical creation story, no historical fables, no list of sayings, no prophecies, no Psalms, no Job....

Noone who has read and understood the Bible will become a muslim.

>> No.17957029

>>17953086
Just go to the mosque, wash your smelly feet, smell their butholes, bend down, after this smoke the hookah and go on welfare.

>> No.17957033

>>17953234
Why is this different from a shot of opium?

>> No.17957044

>>17953492
I dont think muslims understand that with the death of Christianity, some form of fascism will take over Europe. They think in terms of religion versus areligion, while the whole West sees only political and nonpolitical. This will destroy them.

>> No.17957047

>>17957021
Muslims consider the Quran to be a different thing. The Quran is supposed to only be the word of God. If you compare the New and Old Testament, the New Testament has is more alike to Hesiod than to the Old Testament(at least the older books). The Christian Bible is *heavily* influences by Indo-European Religion, as Muslims believe, it is from this influence arises the confusion of Christians and the belief of Trinity and such. A Muslim would say, your error comes from you putting your imperfect human opinions on what is beautiful above the literal Word of God. It is through this faith on the Quran alone, the people of Islam has not fallen like Christians did.

>> No.17957053

>>17956938
As someone who has read a lot, I think its more likely the other way around, literature is closed to you, you are dumb and arrogant, so you wont humble yourself and read.

>> No.17957054

>>17953465
hence what i say, >>17956938

>> No.17957059

>>17957053
i am humble enough to read and consider the perspectives of Christians, Pagans and even Jews. it is you who cannot consider the perspective of Muslims. I assure you, each person ragging on the Quran in this thread has never read a word of Ibn Arabi or Ghazali

>> No.17957062

>>17957047
If God is not beauty, form and depth, then he is ugly, formless and shallow. If the Bible and Edda are in part beautiful, structured and deep, they have been inspired, if the Quran is not, then its the work of devils.

>> No.17957066

>>17957062
man does not know beauty when he sees it

>> No.17957070

>>17957059
>Christians, Pagans and even Jews.
How about that of Liberals, Socialists and Fascists. Tell me what great work of Western literature did you read recently?

I bet yoy have read non.

>> No.17957073

>>17957066
No mate an Arab doesnt. No man who understands Bach would make that claim.

>> No.17957093

>>17957059
Muslim here. Id like to push the idea to be anti mysticism. The Quran says that the best thing is the centre moderate, not the extremism. So the true islamic fate is anti monachesim, orientalism, spiritualism, philosophy (or at least the useless part of it. Probably political philosophy is good.). Sufism is like that. Its too far from the original teachings, and is resembling Christianity and Oriental Paganism. Remember that Mohammed life style was that of not resembling christians, jews, and pagans. Why we fast 30 days and not a week like jews? Because for not resembling the non muslim. Sufism resemble too much non muslim so i think its makrooh. Ibn Arabi, Al Ghazali, Rene Guenon, a vast part of persians too...

Also Quran and Hadits clearly bans musical instruments, this is a huge sign that should tell you that real islamic faith its very pure

>> No.17957094

>>17957073
Man does not know beauty when he says it

>> No.17957104

>>17957018
Where is plato now?

>> No.17957106

>>17957073
There is difference from Beauty let by God and beauty led by Satan. The first its true and let you to paradise, the secon is false and led you to hell. Music was created by Satan for pushing fornication and division among humans, back to Adam days...

>> No.17957110

>>17957094
No you dont. Because you are a degraded human being. But thank you for showing islam is an attack on beauty.

>> No.17957115

>>17957106
By rejecting beauty, you reject God.

>> No.17957122

>>17957093
soulless post, https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=897ABAFCBB761F783CFAA81D79BFD6C7

>> No.17957130

>>17957110
Just stay Christian, that is better. God knows best

>> No.17957133

>>17957115
Im just rejecting beauty led by Satan. Nature, wife, health, armony...u can live just with theese and be happy. U dont need the pleasure of satan. Its like a drug, u start with a bit, and satan tricks you tu have more for being happy...

>> No.17957141

>>17957070
We are on a literature board, correct? yes, i have read them. I myself lean towards national socialism, i have read and disagreed with the enlightenment Liberals. recently, i read Stoner, if you consider that as a great work of literature. is that enough? am i worthy, great Christian?

>> No.17957150

>>17957130
no it isn't better

>> No.17957160

>>17957150
better than being a fedora or a p*gan

>> No.17957178

>>17957160
christcucks are mushriks (pagans)

>> No.17957186

>>17957021
It has job. It just sucks. That's when I decided I was done with it and stopped giving it the benefit of the doubt

>> No.17957192

>>17953492
hey goat fucker - the 2010's want there geopolitical threat back.

you boys are over.

>> No.17957196

>>17957178

"You will surely find the most bitter towards the believers to be the Jews and polytheists and the most gracious to be those who call themselves Christian. That is because there are priests and monks among them and because they are not arrogant." Quran 5:82

Don't make enemies with Christians, they will destroy us like they did during the 19th century with their Jewish friends..

>> No.17957209

>>17957196
>
yes and? they're still mushriks
>
what a scared little bitch

>>17957192
islam isn't a "threat" amerishit
get nuked

>> No.17957220

>>17957130
Not a christian. Enter the 21th century mate. There is only politics.

>>17957133
You divide beauty, to destroy it. You reject God.

>>17957141
Not a Christian. I suggest getting into art, literature and philosophy. You obviously have not developed a concept of the divine yet.

>> No.17957227

>>17957220
shut up libcuck

>> No.17957257

These threads should be nuked, there's no good discussion to be had.

>> No.17957258

>>17957227
You dont know what liberalism is, its just a generic insult like fascism or communism used to be.

>> No.17957263

>>17957258
I know what liberalism is, it's trash

>> No.17957306

>>17957093
I'd like to offer a different perspective. Shia Imams emphasized the need to integrate and the outward; Meaning that while the legalistic teachings of the Prophet must be upheld, we should also strive towards spiritual growth. Ali himself was a mystic of the highest order as it can be seen from his sermons, and most sufi orders trace their lineage to him. As for philosophy, the same sort of logical reasoning of philosophy also exists in some Imams' theological discussions (particularly the sixth Imam), and this is a testament to its use. Many verses of the Quran also emphasize the importance of contemplation and many of them have deeply esoteric meanings. That is why philosophy and mysticism were encouraged and developed in Shia countries while they stagnated elsewhere.
>a vast part of persians too...
They have been Muslims for centuries.
>Also Quran and Hadits clearly bans musical instruments,
Only the type of the music that is used for fun and diversion is banned. There is nothing against other types of music.

>> No.17957354

>>17957306
There is no mysticism and spiritual growth other then the Quran. There is no need of an esoteric layer other then the clear quran words. The quran is very clear once you read tafsir, and the is no other deep meanings after that
Also there are various Hadits saheh (safely true) that says that music was banned by the prophet
A musilm its only a musilm if he follows, other then the Quran, the Hadits of the prophets. Its written in the quran to follow the prophet teachings

>> No.17957356

>>17957354
Please leave this board. Abrahamics are embarassing.

>> No.17957365

>>17957306
>>17957356
Shut the fuck up hippie.

>> No.17957373

>>17957365
Spiritual semite

>> No.17957379

>>17957354
Sure, the Quran is the greatest source of spirituality. The Quran is likened to a fathomless treasure from which each person only fathoms as much as he is capable. There are invaluable tafsirs from the greatest minds which help us in understanding the Quran greatly, but it is a book of such depth that none of us fallible humans could understand it entirely. The Hadith, on the other hand, while valuable, are fallible (even the Sahih ones). So the Hadith must be used with greatest care and only when it is also supported by a verse of the Quran (since the Quran is infallible, and if a Hadith is supported by it, then it is true). There is nothing in the Quran that suggests music in its entirely must be banned. The majority of the Shia jurists have issued fatwas that only the music for fun and earthly diverson are impermissible.

>> No.17957380

>>17957373
Semites bad because... they’re bad

>> No.17957384

>>17957365
The second person you replied is not me. I am also not a "hippie" by any means. I am a Muslim from a Muslim country as were my father and grandfathers.

>> No.17957388

>>17957380
Yes.

>> No.17957389

>>17952250
Haha. You like what then? The satanic bible?

>> No.17957390

>>17957384
A muslim wouldn’t say that Ali was a mystic or that abrahamics are embarrassing

>> No.17957391

>>17957388
So you can’t explain it then, nigger.

>> No.17957392

>>17952273
and had the worst editor
>let's just put the chapter titled "opening" first and then just order them from the longest to the shortest.
Thank you, Uthman...

>>17952290
Early verses;
>end-of-the-world fire sermon poems
Later verses
>legisation...

>> No.17957396

>>17957392
The order doesn’t matter. The Quran is eternal and has no context

>> No.17957397

>>17957390
I didn't say "abrahamics are embarrassing". And Ali did possess the greatest sort of mystical understanding, but he wasn't "just a mystic", he was much more than that.

>> No.17957398

>>17957391
Cool it with the antisemuttic remarks.

>> No.17957403

>>17957398
You’re the antisemite though nigger.

>> No.17957407

>>17957403
For good reason.
Bobby Fischer was an antisemite and he's smarter than you.

>> No.17957425

>>17957396
>The Quran is eternal and has no context
In other words its meaningless.

>> No.17957427

>>17957425
The opposite. It is timeless and applicable for every nation at every time. Islam will be relevant in 3 centuries just as it was 1300 years ago.

>> No.17957429

>>17957379
I kinda understand now how Islam works, the moment they get someone to admit and belief there is value in the Quran, is the moment such a person is broken.

>> No.17957433

>>17957263
Give am accurate definition of liberalism. If you do not you are a child playing with concepts you do not understand

>> No.17957443

>>17957429
What does that even mean?

>> No.17957446

>>17957427
Islam was never relevant, except as a tool of social control. Islam just like Christianity slowly corrupted the virtus of peoples, destroying them.

The whole purpose of islam is to get people to racemix and interbreed, destroying the human race. Thats it.

>> No.17957447

>>17957433
I said it, trash

>>17957446
Cope christshit

>> No.17957449

>>17957446
>The whole purpose of islam is to get people to racemix and interbreed, destroying the human race. Thats it.
Then it's doing a bad job at that. Christianity however....

>> No.17957450

>>17957429
Yeah, the alienated, degenerated westerners living in daily suffering of loneliness aren't broken at all! Only the Muslims living in peace and harmony are broken!

>> No.17957469

>>17957450
Every time I consider the possibility of muslims being right I'm proven wrong by their arrogance and generally shit lifestyle. At least lead by example; take a look at your own countries, it's not going to get any better.

>> No.17957471

>>17957443
Anyone seeing anything of worth and value in the quran is brainwashed. Period.

Their replies suggest as such, claiming its a nonexisting quality that makes the quran great.

>> No.17957478

>>17957471
It’s ok christcuck, not everyone can be of the elect

>> No.17957479

>>17957447
Oke. "Child playing with words he does not understand" it is.

>>17957450
As an elitist I can easily say both are broken, a lot of Westeners atleast accept it somewhat and sometimes one changes. Muslims dont care.

>> No.17957486

>>17957478

Its the 21th century, everything is politics now.

>> No.17957496

>>17957471
As I said above, each person understands from the Quran as much as he is capable. If you cannot understand its value at all, it only goes to show something about you and your capabilities. I do wish, however, that one day you will be lead to the right path.
>>17957469
Our countries were doing great until the Jewish-American world order found out Islam is their greatest obstacle. God willing, Islam will remain strong while this world-order collapses on its own carcass.

>> No.17957501

>>17957486
Good thing islam is a political ideology

>> No.17957504

>>17957479
>As an elitist
Kek. May I ask how you earned your title?

>> No.17957511

>>17957496
>each person understands from the Quran as much as he is capable
That just means you have a dull mind and are tricked into accepting lies. Face it, a book that can be understand by a billion people, most with a IQ around 90 isnt going to be of great value.

You are like a 13 girl talking about Harry Potter to me, she doesnt realise she is a 13 year old girl yet. You dont realise you are a pleb.

>> No.17957518

>>17952526
(Most) Christians don't claim the Bible is vindicated by its matchless beauty like the way Muslims prattle on about the Quran

>> No.17957517

>>17957501
No. It means any fascist regime popping up in the West will quickly declare war on it. Just like Hitler did with the Jews or the Jacobins with the Catholic church.

>> No.17957523

>>17957511
Name a book with “great value“ so I can laugh

>> No.17957526

>>17957504
Elitist isnt a title, its an attitude.

>> No.17957530

>>17957511
> a book that can be understand by a billion people
So, not the Quran?

Why are you even invested so much against Islam? What is your personal stake in this?

>> No.17957534

>>17957523
Alright, the Adagia by Erasmus.

>> No.17957538

>>17956938
That doesn't sound very just.

>> No.17957539

>>17957496
>Our countries were doing great
If sucking Turk dick is doing great then just apply for German citizenship

>> No.17957540

>>17957530
Oh I see, you redefine what it means to be Muslim. Most of the billion or so muslims arent real muslims right?

>> No.17957544

>>17957538
Life isn’t fair, deal with it libcuck

>> No.17957547
File: 97 KB, 366x626, 1617209486028.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17957547

>Abu Nuwas
>Al-Jahiz (author of ‘Concubines and Youths in Competition’)
>Al-Katib (author of the ‘Encyclopedia of Pleasure’)
>Al-Zahiri
>Al-Tinnisi
>Ibn Hazm
>Omar Khayyam
>Attar of Nishapur
>Ibn Quzman
>Daftarkhwan (author of ‘The Thousand and One Youths’)
>Ibn Matruh
>al-Farid
>Kirmani
>al-Maghribi
>Rumi
>Sa’di
>Amir Khusrau
>Shabistari
>Hafiz
>Al-Safadi
>an-Nawaji (author of ‘Gazelle’s Pastures: On Beautiful Youths’)
>Ahmad Gazali
>Revani
>Zati
>Sarmad Mahmud
>Ta’alibi (author of the ‘Book of Youths’)
>al-Nabulsi
>Wali Dakkani
>Naji Shakir
>Shah Mubarak Abroo
>Siraj
>Taban Abdul Hai
>Mir Taqi Mir
The list goes on...
See also: the famed Muslim king Mahmud and his catamite Ayaz, the Afghan practice of bacha bazi and the Sufi practice of shahid bazi
Pictured: Shah Abbas of Iran with a page

>> No.17957548

>>17957540
They most definitely are, but not all Muslims have equal understanding of Islam (as is supported by a Hadith from the Prophet). Don't dodge the question. Why are you invested in this?

>> No.17957554

>>17957548
Question. Do you think you could say the same thing about the works of Kant?

No. Therefor the Quran appeals to the lowest common denominator.

>> No.17957556

>>17957548
To the question why I am invested in this, it is because you are my enemy and I wish to destroy you.

>> No.17957558

>>17957554
The Qur'an gives clear instructions to Muslims on how to live life in a way that pleases Allah. Do you want it to be contrived and nebulous instead? You'd ruin the purpose.

>> No.17957559

>>17957547
Impressive knowledge of gay poetry, christcuck.

>>17957554
Cunt was a dumb philosoy, Ghazali refuted philosophy.

>> No.17957561

>>17957556
Then you are simply un-American.

The Koran is American-tier at this point.

>> No.17957562

>>17957556
>wish to destroy you
You'll find a bitter truth when you realize Muslims are more physically fit for fighting

>> No.17957566

>>17957554
>Question. Do you think you could say the same thing about the works of Kant?
Obviously not. Kant's work was written only for the other philosophers, not all of humanity. Quran was revealed as a guide for all of humanity, therefore it must be in such a way that even simple people could get something from it, but also have esoteric meaning as a guide for the adept. As is emphasized in Islamic literature, the Quran has an inward and an outward.

I ask for a third time: why are you invested so much against Islam?

>> No.17957568

>>17957558
Then what does that have to do with how an intelligent person should life. You dont honestly think that the rules that apply to a shepard should apply to a king.

>> No.17957571

>>17957568
>how an intelligent person should life
Everyone will be judged, anon.

>> No.17957573

>>17957559
>Cunt was a dumb philosoy, Ghazali refuted philosophy.
You dont understand these subjects.

>> No.17957574

>>17957568
In what way is a king better than a shepherd

>> No.17957578

>>17957573
Cope

>> No.17957580

>>17957561
>Then you are simply un-American
Well thank you. Nice of you to notice.

>>17957562
I worked in a meat freezer for 2 years with Poles, Hungarians, some blacks and Hindustani, very few Muslims.

You find very few Muslims in hard labour jobs. Because as a people they are frail and fat.

>> No.17957583

>>17957556
Kek, he thinks he can destroy Islam by spamming on 4chins. Such chivalry, such courage! Keep on fighting dear keyboard warrior.

>> No.17957584

>>17957566
In other words the Quran is designed to bring intelligent people down to the level of the lowest.

>> No.17957590

>>17957584
No my little child. In other words, the understanding that "intelligent" people take away from the Quran is not equal to the understanding of simple people - although both are correct, but on different levels of complexity.

>> No.17957591

>>17957580
>Because as a people they are frail and fat.
They're all doing combat sports instead.

>> No.17957595

>>17957580
Hard labor is for plebes

>> No.17957596

>>17957590
So just like any other book.

>> No.17957603

>>17957571
>Everyone will be judged, anon.
By a judge belonging to their class and breed.

>>17957574
Never said that.

>>17957583
No, we will follow the Chinese in their approach.

>>17957591
Yeah, if that translated in any kind of willpower, these people would own the harbours and construction business and we would have to get Poles and Hungarians.

One reason I am nof worried, people who can not labour can not fight, it takes the same attitude.

>> No.17957611

>>17957603
No, by God. You think that what you've done in this life will go unpunished? Repent now, and believe, the fires of hell are real.

>> No.17957618

>>17957590
>No my little child

I am going to demand total honesty.

I am a highly intelligent individual, I see nothing in the Quran. So either there is nothing in the Quran for intelligent people, or.... I am evil. Pick.

>> No.17957628

>>17957580
>>17957603
>this whole time I've been arguing with a resentful pleb
Now I understand.

>> No.17957636

>>17957595
>Hard labor is for plebes
Then the West will win.

>>17957611
>You think that what you've done in this life will go unpunished?
Yes. My Gods care for other things.

>>17957628
Not an argument.

>> No.17957642

>>17957618
Allah has closed the eyes for some. If you make the choice to be ignorant understand that in the end you will have no choice anymore.

>> No.17957644

>>17957628
Any nation unable to endure physical labour can not endure combat. Weak sissy Moroccans will not stand a chance against seasoned European labourers.

>> No.17957646

>>17957642
Only a demon could choose "not to see me". God can not.

>> No.17957651

>>17957618
>I am a highly intelligent individual
I'm afraid you only suffer from psychic inflation, and that is why your words and understanding are so contorted. Learn to be humble and you will learn to submit to the Eternal Creator.

>> No.17957659

>>17957644
Is that why you cower so hard then?

>> No.17957669
File: 301 KB, 270x271, fry.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17957669

>>17957642
>Allah has closed the eyes for some. If you make the choice to be ignorant

>> No.17957671

>>17957651
You see, you can not be honest, you have to bring me down, even do you can see my English is decent and I gave numerous solid arguments, you will not admit what is right in front of you.

I demand you accept my intelligence as a fact and reject Islam for the study of Western literature.

>> No.17957679

>>17957659
This is all very nice anon, if you think you are so strong, then please go outside in the night and rob some old lady from her purse or trick a young girl to come home with you so you can rape her. Dont talk. Do. Be a real Muslim.

>> No.17957686

>>17957644
Sei italiano?

>> No.17957688

>>17957679
I'll be waiting for the real events which you will cower away from.

>> No.17957689

>>17957671
I am sorry to say but if I were to take your intelligence as a fact, I would have to question if you are of age. It is natural that I have my reservations.

>> No.17957695

>>17952966
I mean Quranic Arabic is very hard. Unlike Latin or Greek the corpus of text is tiny so a large share of the Quran's vocabulary is guesswork. It's even worse when you consider the writing is an abjad. And the text has been heavily edited early on resulting in random isolated syllabes here and there standing for what used to be missing words or sentences.

>> No.17957708

>>17957695
>And the text has been heavily edited
Untrue and you have no evidence for this.

>> No.17957714

>>17957686
Dutch

>>17957688
No you wont.

>> No.17957762

I just want to add something, right now in The Netherlands we are going through our second year of public protests going from Yellow Vests to Anti-Lockdown.

Police are beating people and using water cannons. Its horrible. You know how many of them are White people?

Depending on region usually around 98%

So there is a large counter government movent headed by the local Dutch. With the exception of some inner city riots I never see muslims.

This is why we will win.

>> No.17957768

>>17957714
Im moroccan lol

>> No.17957798

>>17952250
that's because they don't read it

>> No.17957966

>>17956977
>You're an absolute fucking moron if you think "contextless" is a criticism.
Referring to events that happened that aren’t clearly understood outside of reading tons of tafsir is an indication of poor quality. Especially when some of this was allegedly “abrogated” later

>> No.17958038

>>17957798
I read it and I'm a Muslim

>> No.17958046

>>17957762
>>>/pol/ is that way