Money vs Power

[Anonymous No.17927964]

I spent 2 hours searching for books on this particular topic, but all I could find were some quotes. Maybe I'm an idiot who doesn't know where to look for. Post any book on this topic, fiction, non-fiction anything?

[Anonymous No.17927975]

>>17927964
Das Rheingold.

[Anonymous No.17927989]

>>17927964
This doesn't make any sense. You should define what you mean by these terms first

[Anonymous No.17928002]

>>17927975
That was a quick response. Thanks. Never "read" a music drama before. Found an English on Amazon, do suggest I read that or watch the drama I found on YouTube?

[Anonymous No.17928013]

>>17927989
Everyone has a vague idea what for it. But I'm not sure if everyone's definition has the same definition. What is your definition?

[Anonymous No.17928026]

>>17928013
I would not be respected my Mr.Underwood.
Money is power. Power is money. How could it be otherwise?

[Anonymous No.17928090]

>>17927964
i love how atheists love this crap tv show. It's peak politics so ofc bugmen love it

Anyway it is atheists who are obsessed with power. why? because they say everything is about politics? why because the bourgeois told the peasants that if the bourgeois are in power, the bourgeois would listen to the peasants, bet only if the peasants get educated [hence the atheist meme about peasants going to college in atheism]


that's really it. Everything is power like the atheist Nietzsche said.
Everything is will to power and the goal is to further your own will. It's value war. everything is political according to those people
The theist's God is dead and the new one is politics. This is why you WILL watch the news and you WILL care about the laws and YOU will vote.

Even though the peasants never access to the hi ranking bureaucratic positions, hmmmmmm it's like the atheist republic was a scam by the bourgeois to get rid of the christians.

1789 really was a mistake, isn't it

[Anonymous No.17928104]

>>17928002
Das Rheingold is the most difficult to read alone, as the first scene is full of an ensemble, and every translation online is garbage. But being a 'Gesamtkunstwerk' it is necessary to see the visuals (at least for your first experience), and hear the music to properly understand it, so just put up with an online translation (which is in the following video) and watch the best performance available online:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jO6d4z8r7w

It's far from being a traditional performance visually, so it interprets the meaning differently to how Wagner himself would, but it's at the same time a very good production.

The ideas of power revolve around Wotan, you see his resignation from it two dramas later, and his moral redemption three, which is over twelve and a half hours.

[Anonymous No.17928105]

>>17928026
A homeless person who wins a million dollar lottery won't suddenly become powerful right? Sure, he now has the resource but he wouldn't be equal to working individual of same net worth. One thing I've noticed in those instagram girl, they earn really high amount of money but eventually join Onlyfans and later may even do porn, because they run out if it.

[Anonymous No.17928120]

>>17928090
>Anyway it is atheists who are obsessed with power. why? because they say everything is about politics?
Bro, Religious institutions have been using god to gain the highest power since forever.

[Anonymous No.17928127]

>>17928090
Goback to Facebook

[Anonymous No.17928138]

>>17928104
Thank you for the link.

[Anonymous No.17928151]

>>17928090
literally schizo

[Anonymous No.17928152]

Every fucking time.

[Anonymous No.17928179]

>>17928105
>A homeless person who wins a million dollar lottery won't suddenly become powerful right?
But he could buy whatever he wants.
>Sure, he now has the resource but he wouldn't be equal to working individual of same net worth.
The only point of a high net worth is to buy whatever you want, so I disagree with you dichotomy. How do you even express power if not by buying things?

Is power is you sense the ability to multiply money? I doubt anyone would agree with this definition. This makes it redundant. All that we know from your definition is that [money is money].

[Anonymous No.17928182]

>>17928090
Meds: not taken

[Anonymous No.17928190]

>>17928090
>Even though the peasants never access to the hi ranking bureaucratic positions, hmmmmmm it's like the atheist republic was a scam by the bourgeois to get rid of the christians.
>1789 really was a mistake, isn't it
Don't listen to them - this is based

[Anonymous No.17928191]

>>17928179
>How do you even express power if not by buying things?
By social relations you retard. The same origin of money. It’s all based on your relationships with others.

[Anonymous No.17928198]

>>17928179
How can bureaucrats oppose rich CEOs even though they hardly make 1% of their what CEOs make? It's because they have constitutional power to do so.

[Anonymous No.17928202]

>>17928191
>By social relations
Is relation between 3 bums worth anything? Isn't influence just obscure way to talk about money relations? Why would any relations without money even matter?

[Anonymous No.17928211]

>>17928138
Welcome anon, Das Rheingold is a brilliant critique of capitalism and consideration of power as a subject itself, good luck with it.

[Anonymous No.17928212]

>>17928198
>constitutional power
You mean force.
Ok, brute power of the army and police is worth more than just money. You won

[Anonymous No.17928213]

>>17928198
omit their*

[Anonymous No.17928214]

>>17928198
That isn’t always the case though. That individuals initial power may be from the government but the way to use it in such a way that’s effectual is not ally outside of the context of what is ethical within that position, thus it, again, goes back to human relations initiated from that institutional power that would give them real power.

[Anonymous No.17928286]

>>17928026
It's basically Corporatocracy vs bureaucracy.

[Anonymous No.17928325]

>>17928286
I don't understand, Which one of them is [power] and which one is [money]? And how it is even related to the topic?
Bureaucracy is suportet by governments monopoly on violence (which is fine).
Corporation are suported by ... what? Money? The ability to fire people? They don't have a legal way to act violent.
How can you even compare them?

[Anonymous No.17928339]

>>17928325
Corporations are supported by money, and their ability to use it to lobby politicians to make laws in their favour.

[Anonymous No.17928341]

>>17928325
>suportet
supported

[Anonymous No.17928346]

>>17927964
Money is evidently just a type of power. What is power? The ability to do things. Having money gives you the ability to do more things. There are some forms of power you literally cannot obtain, if you are ugly for example you can't make anyone find you physically attractive.

If you want to know the relation between money and other forms of power at the highest echelons of society you are necessarily entering into 'conspiracy theory' territory, because the official story is that we live in a democracy or whatever which is obviously a meme. Marxoids are of the opinion that it is practically just a pyramid with capital as some abstracted force sitting at the top. Nazis tend to blame something like 'international banking cartel' which is not quite the same thing as what the Marxists blame because the basic fraud here is usury and currency dilution not surplus value exploitation. Some other far right types think it is a coalition of semi-governmental institutions without a real conspiracy.

So basically the entire Marxist corpus is about this subject, so get one of their reading lists or just try Capital. For the Nazi take that Central Banking book by Goodson I guess.

[Anonymous No.17928355]

>>17928339
Doesn't this mean that money is power and corporations are just better?

[Anonymous No.17928378]

>>17928346
>if you are ugly for example you can't make anyone find you physically attractive.
Duude, really? Latest trends of insta-whores shows otherwise. Why would rich people care about attractiveness if then can just "buy" anyones love?

[Anonymous No.17928385]

>>17928355
Assuming you're from US, it looks that way because it's a Capitalistic country. The differences become obvious when live in a country with government owned sectors. Even then corporates are able to use money but, in this case the bureaucrats are above the corporates, they use corrupt means build their own corporations.

[Anonymous No.17928400]

>>17928378
>Duude, really? Latest trends of insta-whores shows otherwise.
The paypigs who give them money think they're hot.

[Anonymous No.17928422]

>>17928400
I disagree with this
>There are some forms of power you literally cannot obtain, if you are ugly for example you can't make anyone find you physically attractive.
You can also do this with money.
In fact, I don't this there is anything you can't do with money (this of course implies human rights and capitalism. If there is gang-rule, then brute force is power)

[Anonymous No.17928447]

>>17928422
>I don't this
I don't think

[Anonymous No.17928450]

>>17928378
I don't know any truly rich people so I don't know what their deal is with any certainty, but my guess is that they delude themselves about this because they are just human. I think this is why rich guys usually don't marry 10/10 models though they could, even they can't quite convince themselves that girl is actually attracted to them. But that's just a guess, could be entirely wrong.

Maybe it was just a dumb example though idk, I was just trying to illustrate a different form of power to emphasize its infinitely variable nature.

[Anonymous No.17928481]

[Anonymous No.17928489]

>>17928450
>but my guess is that they delude themselves about this because they are just human. I think this is why rich guys usually don't marry 10/10 models though they could, even they can't quite convince themselves that girl is actually attracted to them
I agree with you. This could be right.
I think that the nature of money is that it can be interchanged with any kind of other power. idk

[Anonymous No.17928511]

Reading this whole thread in frank underwoods voice is a laugh.

[Anonymous No.17928566]

>>17928511
Doesn't matter. We are getting deleted by the first wild mod encounter

[Anonymous No.17928589]

>>17928566
But OP literally asked for recs on a specific subject.

[Anonymous No.17928611]

>>17928589
Ah, yes, my bad. We are saved

[Anonymous No.17928944]

>>17927964
Money in the current age. Authoritative power is something that's long gone.

[Anonymous No.17929091]

>>17928179
the OP image is kinda cringe, but I think
>The only point of a high net worth is to buy whatever you want, so I disagree with you dichotomy. How do you even express power if not by buying things?
isn't exactly true. People who come from a low economic background and win the lottery often spend it all within a few years. The way that they could gain power through their newfound wealth would be to insure that it goes on into perpetuity, rather than slowly bleeding every year that they spend their winnings on dumb things like cars and new houses. Taking that million or couple million and putting it in a diverse portfolio of investments means that you can live off 4-5% of the total each year, without ever shrinking your wealth. And if you can live off less than that, like 3%, then your wealth will even continue to grow with minimal risk. 3% of 3 million would be 90k for example. Completely reasonable to live off yearly, and that wealth would continue to grow without ever being threatened.

A retard would win the lottery and just let the money sit in their bank account deflating in value year after year. If you can make your money make you more money, you have done a great deal to cement your stratification into a higher socioeconomic class.

[Anonymous No.17929120]

>>17928090
they hated him because he told them the truth

[Anonymous No.17929157]

>>17928090
Based

[Anonymous No.17929160]

>>17929091
>A retard would win the lottery and just let the money sit in their bank account deflating in value year after year
This is what I would do. I thought it's a good plan because you gain interest and I thought I could live off that.

[Anonymous No.17929212]

>>17929091 #
>A retard would win the lottery and just let the money sit in their bank account deflating in value year after year
This is what I would do :( I thought it's a good plan because you gain interest and I thought I could live off that.

[Anonymous No.17929344]

>>17928090
Cringed

[Anonymous No.17929382]

>>17927975
Where can I buy one of these?

[Anonymous No.17929438]

the secular bourgeois killed all powers from the christians because they hated to be bossed and scammed by the christian priests.
SO atheists truly despise religion. Even the atheist idol marx said so.

Atheists replace God with the human rights dogmas and the god of republic.

Once they reject any form of social power of the religious guys on the society, atheists are left with hedonism and short term thinking, ie having orgies as quickly as possible and spending as much money as they can. It's a throw away culture

Naturally atheists want to feel righteous too, and even after the christian powers are killed. So how to they feel virtuous when they have no enemy left?

Atheists during the day virtue signal. This is the job of the journalist for instance.Journalism is essentially humanistic since only secular humanists have created the job of journalist and they love the idea of a journalist as the gatekeeper of secular humanism by denouncing some Human rights violations, political scandals and enlightening the plebs, because journalists like any coackroach humanist cling to their idea that they are the gatekeepers of the truths.

All the journalists 100 years ago were already self righteous humanist assholes addicted to their brain poops.
Journalism has always been pathetic.


Any stance on the afterlife defines a society. For instance Christians say there is an heaven and hell, so they live in the present life according to this.

Buddhists say there is rebirth over and over, and they adapt their current life to this. Their goal is get off the rebirth train


Atheists like Nietzsche say christians and buddhists are the NIHILISTS, precisely because they think about the afterlife and adapt their behavior according to heir view about this.

So inherently, atheists despise thinking about the after life. Atheists are the nihilists in the current sense.
Nietzsche is an atheist, a nihilist, postmodernist which appeals to a lot of liberals and other deeply neurotic teenagers.


Atheists have such mental breakdown when they think about the afterlife, that they rejected buddhism and created secular buddhism, which is buddhism minus the rebirth. And the whole purpose of buddhism is destroyed when rebirth is removed. But Atheists have no critical thinking so they don't see this. Effectively secular buddhism is just living in the present to have a non-conceptual orgasm lol

[Anonymous No.17929448]

>>17929438
Off-topic, schizo.

[Anonymous No.17929520]

>>17929091
Why are you ignoring
>Is power is you sense the ability to multiply money? I doubt anyone would agree with this definition. This makes it redundant. All that we know from your definition is that [money is money].
Your argument doesn't say anything about the relation of money and power.
You are saying that [money over time] is more powerful than [just money]. That is true, but what does is say about the power that money brings to people?
I don't think good foresight is explicitly power.

[Anonymous No.17929552]

>>17928152
Cringe

[Anonymous No.17929591]

>>17929438
Based af

[Anonymous No.17929611]

>>17928152
Cant believe the author passed away just last year.

[Anonymous No.17929649]

Just post the books without the schizo ramblings, based, cringe, etc.

[Anonymous No.17929711]

>>17929649
Might is right

[Anonymous No.17929796]

>>17929520
If you have continuous source of money, people will "want" you. In turn they'll do your bidding. And that's the power you've over them.

[Anonymous No.17929914]

>>17929520
>I don't think good foresight is explicitly power.
Ok. Tentatively, I will define “power” as your capability to master your environment and create a desirable outcome for yourself to the degree that it is reasonably possible. Power can be attained in greater and lesser degrees. You can become more powerful through the use of your foresight and planning.

For example, say that you and another individual both win 3 million dollars in the lottery. You decide that you will choose not to take on any extravagant expenses until you have carefully planned out an investment strategy that mitigates risk while allowing for reasonable growth. The other individual buys 6 cars, a vacation home, a small yacht, and puts their 4 kids into an expensive private school. I believe that you can position yourself well to slowly rise in your capability to control your environment, while the other person has made a display of wealth that could very likely be damaging in the long run. They have greatly increased the cost of their life without clearly knowing they can maintain it over time.

[Anonymous No.17929926]

>>17929212
You don’t gain any kind of significant interest unfortunately. Inflation is literally greater than the amount of interest you would gain from any savings account, so your buying power is shrinking every second that your wealth sits in a bank account.

[Anonymous No.17929937]

>>17928090
Boomer vibe but also you’re not wrong

[Anonymous No.17929966]

>>17929914
Power is not a single-variable quantity, you can't just raise or lower it as such. You have power to do individual things, in your environment there are a host of possible things that can be done, and gaining the ability to do one type may not help the ability to do another, it may even impede it in some cases, the point anyway is that it is a large, almost infinitely, varied set of actions which you can or cannot take. Generally speaking though there is a bit of fungibility of types of power so that the powerless man usually doesn't have many things he can do that the powerful man cannot. But if you ask if a Senator or a rich businessman has more power you are asking a question that might not have an answer, they have power to do different sorts of things.

[Anonymous No.17930253]

>>17929966
of course power is a multifaceted thing. I still believe you can make conscious choices that increase your power over the world. Increasing your wealth is one of the best ways to increase your power. You don't have to live extravagantly, but just having it in your back pocket greatly increases the amount if independence that you feel. Further, you can set your offspring up for greater independence and control over their environment.

A senator and a rich businessman have different kinds of power to do different things. But a rich senator has a little of both.

[Anonymous No.17930679]

>>17928179
>The only point of a high net worth is to buy whatever you want

Holy shit, you must be poor. Money is a tool. It provides you security in case things go south. Money works for you. A very rich person doesn't make most of their money working, they make it through assets and investments.

[Anonymous No.17931848]

>>17928179
I've always felt that having money to buy access to people was more valuable than having money to buy things.

[Anonymous No.17932609]

>>17927964
Different things. Money is a resource, power is an ability. You require both, maybe more of money because because that's what even the mist powerful politicians are after.

[Anonymous No.17932654]

>>17927964
Money is seducing underage boys to come over your lux apartment in the dead of night

Power is covering up your molestations while you enjoy a succesful acting career

[Anonymous No.17932761]

>>17928489
Not many people will die for money.

[Anonymous No.17932776]

>>17927964
Power is an illusion. Money talks. Why do you think powerful people are all rich? It's the hierarchy of needs, you get money first then the idea of power starts to become alluring.

[Anonymous No.17932780]

>>17929382
I wish I knew.

[Anonymous No.17932786]

>>17928179
>The only point of a high net worth is to buy whatever you want
>I must CONSOOM
Stay poor retard

[Anonymous No.17932866]

>>17927964
money makes the world go round

[Anonymous No.17933005]

>>17932776
Is Bezos more powerful than Biden?

[Anonymous No.17933052]

>>17927964
Power: A Radical View by Steven Lukes
Power: A New Social Analysis by B. Russell
Liberty: Four Essays - Isaiah Berlin

[Anonymous No.17933074]

>>17933005
Lmao. Yes. Of course he is, are you kidding? If Biden steps out of line they'll impeach his dumbass or assassinate him. Guys like Bezos determine, in part, where the line is drawn.

[Anonymous No.17933342]

>>17933074
You really think The President of the United States and Leader of the free world is less powerful than some corporate overlord?

[Anonymous No.17933351]

>>17933342
Do I think the position holds less power? No.
Do I think the person that is occupying the position at a given time has less power? Yes, absolutely.

[Anonymous No.17933373]

>>17933005
Yes absolutely. Biden can't even give a press conference without flash cards.

[Anonymous No.17933462]

>>17933052
Interesting choice of books there. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.17934364]

>>17927964
How do I go about becoming Palpatine, bros? Ae there any Palpapilled books?

[Anonymous No.17934379]

>>17927964
Unironically Moldbug's new substack. He writes a lot on this subject.

[Anonymous No.17934567]

>>17934379
Have a link?

[Anonymous No.17935094]

>>17933373
That's has nothing to with the power comparison.

[Anonymous No.17935096]

>>17928090
Master bait.

[Anonymous No.17935384]

>>17927964
In modern society money is equivalent to power. Your ability to enact your will on the world and people around you is entirely tied to how much money you can throw around doing it. Trying to distinguish between money and some abstract term like "power" is idiotic. Money is a legitimate measure of how much power you have and are able to excersise.

[Anonymous No.17935426]

>>17934567
graymirror.substack.com

Start at the beginning

[Anonymous No.17935587]

>>17935426
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.17935631]

>>17933074
I have had immense amounts of paranoia ever since the election that they are going to ff assass him to create a pretext for tyrannical repression

[Anonymous No.17935683]

>>17935587
You're welcome. I enjoy it quite a bit.

[Anonymous No.17935696]

>>17927964
I would recommend reading books on modern Chinese politics such as The Party by McGregor or in the Mind of Xi Jinping by Bougon

Since China is the most prominent civ where power > money (in contrast to the West where it's more debatable), you'll have a lot to chew on.

[Anonymous No.17936286]

Most of what >>17928346 said is right I think.

I would also like to add that power is extremely situational and can change in an instant.

Money is just a really blunt form of power, that you also need to know how to use. What some people can do with a Million others would need a Billion. If someone gave you a million could you really use it, without the IRS asking where the money came from? If you are connected to a few Billionaires and could maybe influence them in some shape or form, wouldn't that be more powerful and precise than wielding a few minuscule millions?

A good example could be a government clerk who has to accept some of your papers or can delay them. The CEO of the company has almost no power over the man, but the instant his paperwork is finalized, the clerk loses all power over him. The CEO has only a few options to influence the work of the man i.e. bribe him, threaten his life, try changing the clerk and so on. Most of these different methods may have hard repercussions in the long/short run, therefore they might not be a possibility for him to do something against the clerk, if he wants to proceed with his business.

Another good example could be a robber who pulls out a gun on the president. The president might actually have overall more power than the robber, but in this certain situation he has most of the power.

In the end it all depends on your own will and goals. If you don't really have anything you want to archive, you have all the power, because you can always enforce your will.

[Anonymous No.17936677]

>>17933342
>You really think the Pres'nent of theese United State and Leader of muh free world is less powerful than
I love how Americans treat their political system like a religion. You people are so retarded I can't wait for the end.

[Anonymous No.17937047]

>>17928120
> actually, they did all that stuff for the sole purpose of gaining power
I just don’t even know how someone could arrive at this conclusion. Did the Vatican play politics to gain power and influence? Yes. Did Gregory Palamas write the 150 Chapters for power? I think you’d have to be deceiving yourself to think that.

[Anonymous No.17937548]

>>17937047
Where did I say that that was their only goal? It is one of their primary goals.

[Anonymous No.17938008]

>>17927964
Yet he had to bow down to the same person he was mocking in this dialogue because he had more money unlike Underwood.

[Anonymous No.17938033]

Money and Power - Jacques Ellul

[Anonymous No.17938041]

>>17928105
>A homeless person who wins a million dollar lottery won't suddenly become powerful right
Yes. Relatively more powerful than 99% of /lit/-anons, but insignificantly powerful in comparison to Bezos.

[Anonymous No.17938124]

>>17938041
>Relatively more powerful than 99% of /lit/-anons
Impossible, /lit/ anons are quite smart even if they're a bit egoistic. If the homeless person is an average human, he'll just use up all his money. He can't be smarter than /lit/ anons.

[Anonymous No.17938214]

>>17928090
Based

[Anonymous No.17938880]

Debt, Capital as Power, Nemesis, ect.

[Anonymous No.17940016]

>>17936677
Not an argument. Also it's the same everywhere.

[Anonymous No.17940021]

Decline of the West

[Anonymous No.17940030]

>>17938124
>If the homeless person is an average human, he'll just use up all his money.
That is power.
Money without intelligence/connection is power.
Money with intelligence/connection is power compounded.
Intelligence but no connection or money is wasted potential. Even connections with no money or intelligence is more effective.

[Anonymous No.17940265]

>>17940030
Thats a nice way to put it.

[Anonymous No.17940318]

>>17936677
That poster couldn’t be an American. All Americans (at least now) hate their president on an instinctive level. We see presidents as either literally satan (if he opposes your side of the aisle) or milktoast nothingness that will never do a single thing you really ask for. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy by now that the POTUS is bad, simply because America has subsumed itself and its power structures to corporate powers.

[Anonymous No.17940367]

Do people chasing money just because society meme'd them into doing so?

[Anonymous No.17941489]

>>17928090
>atheist Nietzsche
Nietzsche wasn't an atheist.

[Anonymous No.17942525]

>>17927964
As others have said business networking.

[Anonymous No.17943872]

>>17927964
If you live in a democratic country money takes preference. If you live a authoritarian country then power obvious is mor important.

[Anonymous No.17943891]

>>17941489
What was he then?

[Anonymous No.17944084]

>>17943891
He was a Christian.

[Anonymous No.17944397]

>>17927964
What a shitty edgy quote, if anything 90% of power becomes fragile when unattended. The only long lasting type of power is mastery and that's rare. Pic related is the only based quote I have on this topic.

[Anonymous No.17944760]

>>17944397
What is mastery?

[Anonymous No.17946508]

>>17927964
48 rules of power
the ascent of money

[Anonymous No.17946570]

>>17927964
Money is power, but power isn't always money.

[Anonymous No.17946609]

>>17928090
Excellent bait

[Anonymous No.17946624]

>>17927964
Money is social power. It's a numerical representation for how far others will bend over backwards for you.