/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17926074]

>fascism is capitalism in decay, it is the attempt by the bourgeois state to defend capitalism by any means necessary

[Anonymous No.17926080]

I mean just look at the history
Many beloved brands of Neo-libs come from Nazi Germany

[Anonymous No.17926098]

>fascism is leftwing because American brainlets say so

[Anonymous No.17926105]

Well if it isn't true OP, explain why fascism always becomes a potential reality in economic downturns and why they hate and kill left-wingers the most.

[Anonymous No.17926132]

>>17926080
>fascism
>Nazi Germany

[Anonymous No.17926136]

>>17926098
fascism is 3rd position

[Anonymous No.17926143]

>>17926136
Fascism is fag position

[Anonymous No.17926155]

>>17926074
Everything commies say is projection. Fascism is communism in decay, viz. China, Russia, 90s Serbia, etc.

[Anonymous No.17926156]

>>17926143
care to elaborate?

[Anonymous No.17926160]

>>17926105
>explain why fascism always becomes a potential reality in economic downturns
The same reason that socialism does
>why they hate and kill left-wingers the most.
That's not true. It only applies to Bolsheviks (see: crypto-Jews).

[Anonymous No.17926164]

>>17926080
>>17926105
correlation/=/causation

god you commies are dumb

[Anonymous No.17926168]

>>17926164
>/=/
where is that from?

[Anonymous No.17926169]

More like Monarchy in decay. Its not even a real quote anyway

[Anonymous No.17926173]

>>17926160
>That's not true.

Yes it is true. Fascists even tolerate left-wingers in their own ranks until they achieve power and then they murder all of them, e.g Night of the Long Knives.

[Anonymous No.17926176]

>>17926160
>The same reason that socialism does
This. I could call socialism capitalism in decay and I wouldn't be wrong. It's a meaningless insult because literally everything that comes after capitalism will still possess some remnant of it.

[Anonymous No.17926183]

>>17926173
>Fascists even tolerate left-winger
No, Bolsheviks. Also, Night of the Long Knives killed plenty of reactionary generals as well that were not ok with Nazism, it wasn't just Bolshevik crypto-Jews.

[Anonymous No.17926186]

>>17926105
you could literally apply this to any revolutionary movement in history you fucking troglodyte

[Anonymous No.17926190]

>>17926074
True this talking point is retarded but this isn’t lit

[Anonymous No.17926191]

>>17926183
>Night of the Long Knives killed plenty of reactionary generals as well that were not ok with Nazism

But that wasn't the primary goal of the Night of the Long Knives, the primary goal was murdering Ernst Röhm and all the Strasserites and the reason why is that their worker-oriented Nazism was a threat to Hitler's secret deals with German industrialists and capitalists.

[Anonymous No.17926194]

>Carl Marcks said capitalism was an intermediate stage between feudalism
>Socialism ended up as an intermediate stage between feudalism and capitalism

[Anonymous No.17926196]

>>17926191
>itler's secret deals
No, it was a threat to the security of a new regime which needed total solidarity to have any chance of defeating France, UK, America and Russia. You have no clue what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.17926200]

>>17926196
Cope more /pol/goloid.

[Anonymous No.17926214]

>>17926105
because all regime changes take power during periods of instability?

[Anonymous No.17926217]

>>17926200
>no argument
>he thinks that obvious political subversion, in the face of a gigantic Bolshevik threat from the east, shouldn't be quickly and harshly dealt with
In my opinion, Hitler's Germany was already too plebeian. It's hard to imagine how much worse Röhm could've made it.

[Anonymous No.17926219]

>>17926191
lol the nazis constantly broke deals with capitalist and industrialists, they basically just had to do whatever they were told to do, similar to modern chinas government

[Anonymous No.17926220]

>>17926098
it has many of the features of leftwing movements like populism and mass propaganda

[Anonymous No.17926223]

>>17926105
>communists
>anti-religion
>anti-tradition
>jewish
"nooo, why did hitler kill the communists, nooo!!!!"

[Anonymous No.17926226]

Why are leftists so utterly stupid?

[Anonymous No.17926227]

>>17926074
Literally not literature jannies delete this
>>>/his/
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.17926228]

>>17926223
Same could be said of liberals and yet fascists hate communists a lot more than liberals.

[Anonymous No.17926231]

>>17926223
>hitler
>atheist
>anti-traditionalist
>partially jewish
hm

[Anonymous No.17926236]

>>17926228
you are more problematic

[Anonymous No.17926245]

>>17926228
Liberals are OK with me having a tradition and religion. Communists are not. Ergo communists get the bullet first.

[Anonymous No.17926248]

>>17926223
Why did Hitler keep so many Jews in his cabinet?
Why was the NSDAP financed by industrialist Jews and Freemasons??

[Anonymous No.17926251]

>>17926236
No they are about the same, one just wants to abolish capitalism, and NatSocs secretly love capitalism because it's socially darwinistic. You guys just can't stop arguing in bad faith.

[Anonymous No.17926255]

>>17926231
Despite being atheist, he was pro-religion, although he preferred Islam over Christianity. He wasn't a traditionalist like in the sense Evola was, but he definitely didn't want to abolish tradition. Allegedly partially Jewish, according to some Jewish researcher, who stole the cigarette of some family member that had the same lineage as Hitler - it's not considered a fact.

[Anonymous No.17926260]

>>17926251
you can't "abolish" capitalism, that's like saying that you can abolish human nature
it's just a regime/elite change

[Anonymous No.17926269]

>>17926255
>but he definitely didn't want to abolish tradition
yeah he wanted to larp as le imaginary aryan invaders (or as pagan vikagns) and genocide east europeans to replace them with german farmers
trad as fuack

[Anonymous No.17926275]

>>17926269
It's not trad but it's still pretty based compared to everything else

[Anonymous No.17926283]

>>17926269
cope, commies are always defending capital. seethe more incel

[Anonymous No.17926284]

>>17926260
You know, whenever I think that NatSocs maybe aren't as dumb as the stereotype suggests, one of you post stuff like this and simply confirm that you are indeed as dumb as the stereotype suggests.

[Anonymous No.17926288]

>>17926284
>You know, whenever I think that commies maybe aren't as dumb as the stereotype suggests, one of you post stuff like this and simply confirm that you are indeed as dumb as the stereotype suggests.
Sorry, fixed the typo

[Anonymous No.17926294]

>>17926260
>you can't "abolish" capitalism, that's like saying that you can abolish human nature
>>>/r/eddit
I lost IQ points reading that

[Anonymous No.17926296]

>>17926284
i'm not a natsoc

>>17926283
i'm not a commie

[Anonymous No.17926298]

>>17926074
>Going back to agricultural way of life is defending capitalism.
>>17926080
>National socialism is fascism.
I refuse to read your posts.
>>17926098
Authoritarian right-wing, little less Authoritarian than a monarchy with citizen duties.
I know, how terrible and draconian.

[Anonymous No.17926303]

>>17926105
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm
You'll never read it and if you do you won't get it.
I grow tired of this conversation.
>>17926136
>>17926143
It is not third position.
>>17926173
>e.g Night of the Long Knives.
>Ignores stalins purges.
Hitler did like one or two purges at most, facismo never needed to do a purges.
They're called usefully idiots and cannon fodder by the way.

[Anonymous No.17926305]

Communism is Jewish
National Socialism is Jewish
Republicanism is Jewish

[Anonymous No.17926306]

>>17926294
tell me faggot how do you abolish capitalism?
by making it so that the state bureaucrats own the means of production and function in a way largely indistinguishable from capitalist regimes?
by forcing small businesses to become part of the black market?
lmao

[Anonymous No.17926310]

>>17926305
judaism is aryan

[Anonymous No.17926311]

>>17926296
sorry, it was meant for >>17926251

[Anonymous No.17926313]

>>17926310
At last, I truly see.

[Anonymous No.17926318]

>>17926173
>Night of the Long Knives.
>Muh fascism guise!
I'm so sick of you retards. Facism =/= national socialism =/= capitalism.
Can you learn or you incapable of doing that too?

[Anonymous No.17926322]

>>17926298
>national socialism is not totalitarian

[Anonymous No.17926329]

>>17926251
>capitalism because it's socially darwinistic
What? You do realize any system that selects for a certain trait is not "socially darwinistic"? There are many, many systems in existence, which select for different traits. The natural environment is one such system, capitalism is another such system, socialism is another such system. A system can only be termed "socially darwinistic" if it specifically selects for traits which are usually selected for by nature. Capitalism selects for a specific type of intelligence and cunning, not for traits that are typically successful in the state of wild nature, ergo capitalism is not "socially darwinistic" and nor would national socialism favour capitalism for that reason.

I swear, for all the namecalling you guys do against NatSocs, you are hardly any smarter yourselves.

[Anonymous No.17926331]

>>17926183
>Nazism
Peak retarded.
National socialist movement, any other words are hogwash and shall be ignored and marked as ignorance.
O/

[Anonymous No.17926335]

>NOOO CAPITALISM IS PERFECT YOU CAN'T CRITICIZE IT! JUST ACCEPT IT
why are capitalists so dogmatic and borderline religious zealots

[Anonymous No.17926339]

>>17926191
>>17926196
When Lenin was having failed revolutions and russians were starving again Germany was industrializing.
Sorry, Germany builds and produces things that make money.
Muh capitalism! Weaknesses, you can't build a nation is everyone is poor and starving.
Nor can you have an army without excessive productivity.
Away with you!

[Anonymous No.17926346]

>>17926251
>NatSocs secretly love capitalism because it's socially darwinistic.
We like tanks and MG-42s, dumb dumb.

[Anonymous No.17926353]

>>17926331
what is that image? with all kindness, please explain it to me
>>17926335
I just don't like lefties complaining about capitalism, because most are massive shills for it. You only need to look at ANTIFA and BLM to see what the current lefty anti-capitalism movements look like

[Anonymous No.17926359]

>>17926251
Howitzer go boom. You guys are so stuck up your own fucking asses could park a buss fucking sideways in it.
Tanks, cannons, sub machine guns and having a ton of food is cool and dope.
Also, when you make alot of money women will touch your Willie!
Heil Hitler!

[Anonymous No.17926363]

>>17926353
>what is that image? with all kindness, please explain it to me
Glow in the dark CIA niggers play Americans chumps like a fiddle.
Mg-42 go brrrt.

[Anonymous No.17926369]

>>17926074
It hilarious how people say this and even all the leftists ITT saying that Hitler was linking arms with muh capitalists.
They like to ignore the fact that the Bolshevik revolution was bankrolled by rich new york capitalist bankers in America

[Anonymous No.17926372]

>>17926353
>I just don't like lefties complaining about capitalism

How do I criticize capitalism though if I'm not into races, nations and all the identity politics shit though? Recommend me a non-left anti-capitalism political movement like that anon.

[Anonymous No.17926379]

>>17926322
relating to a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state.
"a totalitarian regime"
Hitler was elected chancellor, as is usually the case in Germany.
Cope and seethe, nigger.

[Anonymous No.17926387]

>>17926369
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
Yes.
>>17926372
>Recommend me a non-left anti-capitalism
Can't form an army or build and empire if everyone is starting and stupid, raping and murdering everything around them.
There, boom, done. Next subject matter!

[Anonymous No.17926398]

>>17926074
this is true if by capitalism you mean the general structure of exploitation and not just a specific economic system. and most people who know what they're talking about don't talk about capitalism as just an economic system as its influence reaches back to preindustrial times so yes fascism is very much a 'capitalist' invention. you have to realize the things we're talking about when we talk about capitalism and fascism are more than just hurr durr companies n shit vs hurr durr nazis n shit. they're words for things that've existed for thousands of years like slavery, exploitation, colonization.

[Anonymous No.17926400]

>>17926379
>relating to a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state.
>Hitler was elected chancellor
Pssst, the definition of totalitarianism you gave is compatible with the existence of democratically elected representatives
(not the anon you replied to btw)

[Anonymous No.17926401]

>>17926372
Traditionalism?

[Anonymous No.17926404]

>>17926379
lmao so if somebody is elected to government they can never can never become a dictator? you might be the dumbest person ive ever met on here

[Anonymous No.17926408]

>>17926401
Aha, so become a larper who practices magic unironically? Is there a more materialistic alternative?

[Anonymous No.17926418]

>>17926387
A total of $50.1 billion (equivalent to $575 billion in 2019)[26] was involved, or 17% of the total war expenditures of the U.S.[2] In all, $31.4 billion ($360 billion) went to Britain and its Empire, $11.3 billion ($130 billion) to the Soviet Union, $3.2 billion ($36.7 billion) to France, $1.6 billion ($18.4 billion) to China, and the remaining $2.6 billion to the other Allies.
Imagine spending 575 billions dollars to fight national socialism because Germany wanted Prussia back from the filthy polish kikes.
Imagine spending all that money and still getting fucking massacred by men who needed to fight on horse back using slow rate of fire sub machine guns that had magazine issues.
Imagine being a useful idiot and cannon fodder to ZOG.
Literally and truly, the goyest of goyim.

[Anonymous No.17926423]

>>17926408
I can see you're not actually interested in investigating any alternatives, so I won't even bother suggesting anything else.

[Anonymous No.17926429]

>>17926408
Yeah, you could not give a shit about what some faggot occultists have to say about anything.

[Anonymous No.17926440]

>>17926400
>Pssst, the definition of totalitarianism you gave is compatible with the existence of democratically elected representatives
National socialism doesn't have dictators.
Psst, I don't care about democracy.

[Anonymous No.17926445]

>>17926372
>How do I criticize capitalism though if I'm not into races, nations and all the identity politics shit though?
You literally cannot. Because all left-wing criticism of finance capitalism will inevitably also side with globalisation, anti-racism, promotion of gay/trans rights and thereby american cultural imperalism into other countries, which in turn enables the american takeover of said countries and imposition of american markets.
Left-wing social positions are literally all promoted by the big capital.
Left-wing criticism of "capitalism" is therefore also inherently impotent because they will inevitably side with american cultural and therefore financial imperalism.
>a non-left anti-capitalism political movement
It's called post-liberalism.
It is only in its nascent stages, but you should look into people like Veblen, Bichler and Nitzan, Schumpeter, Kalecki

[Anonymous No.17926446]

>>17926440
If national socialism doesn't have dictators then what the fuck was Hitler?

[Anonymous No.17926447]

>>17926404
>lmao so if somebody is elected to government they can never can never become a dictator?
>Night of the long knives.
It's irrelevant to explain to you.
National socialism was a bulwark against communism and Jewish nepotism.

[Anonymous No.17926485]

>>17926445
>Left-wing criticism of "capitalism" is therefore also inherently impotent because they will inevitably side with american cultural and therefore financial imperalism

Makes sense, looks like the only way for the modern left to function is some form of a crypto-accelerationism.

>Veblen, Bichler and Nitzan, Schumpeter, Kalecki

These look like serious people, unlike Dugin, Guenon and Evola. Thanks for giving a non-meme answer anon.

[Anonymous No.17926508]

>>17926485
>>17926445
You idiots don't get it. If you are a materialist, there is really nothing better than neoliberalism. Why would you even want anything else if you are a materialist? The only thing that exists is matter and sense gratification; neoliberalism is perfectly suited to those aims.

[Anonymous No.17926520]

>>17926508
I just don't like going to a bullshit job so my faggot boss would get richer by selling dumb proles stuff they don't really need anon, is this too much to ask to stop this.

[Anonymous No.17926525]

>>17926485
>crypto-accelerationism
Interesting idea. Though the modern left as it stands is not really politically conscious. It's just a battering ram for the elite.
>Thanks for giving a non-meme answer anon
No worries. If you're interested in Bichler and Nitzan (their book 'Capital as Power' is great). You should chuck a listen to this series on it.
The later part of the first episode gets into an autistic debate about power so you might want to skip to the second episode if it gets too boring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGAHHdXJ2Ds

[Anonymous No.17926533]

>>17926520
So why aren't you a social democrat or something? Why are you asking us to give you positions? Your mind is already effectively made up, you just have to do the investigative work (of which I basically just gave you the answer).

[Anonymous No.17926540]

>>17926508
>If you are a materialist, there is really nothing better than neoliberalism
Wtf? This guy has cracked the case!!!
Marx (the materialist) would actually be a neoliberal if he was around today!!!!!

[Anonymous No.17926556]

>>17926540
>Marx (the materialist) would actually be a neoliberal if he was around today!!!!!
Yep.

[Anonymous No.17926562]

>>17926533
Social democrats are just neoliberal wolves in progressive clothing (to be fair they were like that in Weimar already), and communists are either impotent tankie larpers or identity politics supporters, distracting people from actual issues. I was wondering what solutions are there, different from the Mark Fisher's one.

[Anonymous No.17926564]

>>17926408
Anarcho-primitivism

[Anonymous No.17926568]

>>17926562
In my country social democrats are responsible for making NEETdom possible, so they would directly solve your problem (you'd never have to wageslave again if you didn't want).

[Anonymous No.17926579]

Why do leftists blame fascism for literally everything while giving liberalism a pass for doing the same things they blame fascism on? Is it that hard to accept liberalism is also capable of evil and oppression and that not everything is because of fascism? Is it just ressentiment?

[Anonymous No.17926591]

>>17926556
I'm not a Marxist, but philosophical materialism has nothing to do with supporting sense gratification and neoliberalism.
No idea where you would come up with such an idea.

[Anonymous No.17926602]

>>17926591
It's the entire underlying normative framework of Marxism and philosophical materialism when examining the necessary ethical conclusions. There's a reason why the vast majority of intellectual materialist schools end up adopting one form or another of utilitarianism/egalitarianism. And don't play dumb here, you know exactly what I'm speaking about. Marxism's fundamental ethical presuppositions (at an individual level) are more or less Epicurean.

[Anonymous No.17926695]

Fascism is notable for the vagueness of its economic model. It is primarily syncretic, drawing from multiple sources. It is mostly driven by its social values which is in every case hyper-nationalist and statist. Whereas capitalism is internationalist and anti-statist. However in economic terms It makes little sense to me that in seeking to preserve itself capitalism would disintegrate itself by allowing itself to be absorbed and digested by fascism.

Mussolini for instance was anti-capitalist, viewing it as a sign of democratic decadence and a cause of national degeneration . He preferred instead a corporatist model in which each industry was grouped together and had its own political representation depending on what it did, and while individual firms were allowed to operate how they saw fit, they were always subordinate to the state and were considered its organs.

Germany had a similar model, promoting the concept of Gleichschaltung, or forceful coordination, in which various private enterprises were obligated to meet the needs of the state when directed, despite the costs or harm this might inflict on their business. Furthermore the upper levels of the managerial class were almost always Nazi party members, blurring the distinction between private and public sectors.

[Anonymous No.17926719]

>>17926447
There's not way there's people who actually unironically believe stuff like this, right guys?