/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17792240]

I started reading Mathew the Bible and all this talk about being meek and humble and letting your enemy slap the shit out of you is really not my style. I understand forgiving people if they seek forgiveness but why would I love those who want to hurt me?

[Anonymous No.17792246]

New Testament is lame fan fic for slaves. Read the chad tanahk instead

[Anonymous No.17792260]

>>17792240
Because as you deal with your debtors, God will deal with you.

[Anonymous No.17792301]

Jesus also says we need to follow the word of God to get into heaven but there are so many little laws and rituals Im pretty sure no one alive today follows them all. Do you guys know anyone that still sacrifices animals?

[Anonymous No.17792314]

>>17792246
>fables about some chosen race that’s not mine
no thanks

[Anonymous No.17792323]

>>17792301
Jesus fulfilled the OT Mosaic Law, which is why observing Christians can still eat pork and whatnot

[Anonymous No.17792331]

>>17792260
This

[Anonymous No.17792337]

>>17792331
Atheists are still coping.

[Anonymous No.17792358]

>>17792301
>>17792323
He also revoked the need for whole burnt offerings, in the sense of animal sacrifice. Our sacrifice now is asceticism, martyrdom, and such. Plus I'm pretty sure jews can't do that anymore either, now that there's no temple or jewish priesthood to observe such sacrifices.

[Anonymous No.17792371]

>>17792301
Just be a decent human and have faith.

[Anonymous No.17792381]

>>17792371
Literally read the Bible. Youre going to hell if thats all you do

[Anonymous No.17792390]

>>17792240
If you aren't a fundamentalist its' more an ideal. Hate is useless. Fight the holy war in defense of others and yourself but don't go genocide people. Love your enemy in that you pity their lack of understanding. Even the Khan commented on this truth when he said "An action taken in anger is an action doomed to failure". The Khan (you know who it is) was not a christian but he understood the main point.

[Anonymous No.17792400]

>>17792358
>Plus I'm pretty sure jews can't do that anymore either, now that there's no temple or jewish priesthood to observe such sacrifices.
Correct, in fact fasting and prayer has taken the place of animal sacrifice in the most sacred holiday.

[Anonymous No.17792434]

>>17792358
>>17792400
>he doesn't know about Kapparot

[Anonymous No.17792438]

>>17792434
american education in a nutshell

[Anonymous No.17792450]

>>17792240
>letting your enemy slap the shit out of you
I'm not a Christian but this is actually due to a translation error. The original Greek distinguished between a personal enemy and a public enemy, i.e., an invader, and the enemy you're supposed to turn the other cheek to is the former. Turning the other cheek to people trying to destroy your people is obviously suicidal. Turning the other cheek to your jerk neighbor is kinda beta but I get it.

[Anonymous No.17792459]

>>17792450
hylic

[Anonymous No.17792480]

>>17792240
>why would I love those who want to hurt me?
Because if you do this you're ahead of most people, and when you're ahead of most people it's like looking at your pet dog, he is still stupid and even when he creates chaos you still love him because he doesn't know, he is ignorant just like the people who do not see themselves in others

refer to >>17792260

>Should we let them in?
Show me where Christ said to welcome in barbarians. You help a man from another place but after forgiving him for hurting you then you should leave or create a wall (best karma respectiong defense). Self inflicted pain is not encouraged beyond/after the initial instance/back stab. The initial instance of pain is an attempt to redpill the barbarian - a mirror

[Anonymous No.17792674]

>>17792381
>Read this book that's been corrupted over thousands of years by the ruling class in order to control peasants
Literally all you have to do is be a half decent human, that's it.

[Anonymous No.17792706]

>>17792674
How can it be completely corrupted if it outs the jew and materialistic catholics?

[Anonymous No.17792715]

>>17792450
What about the Meek will inherit the earth?

[Anonymous No.17792732]

>>17792715
Unironically watch Jordan Petersons interpretation of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cct98wRv3SY

[Anonymous No.17792772]

>>17792732
Thanks man. If only Baptist preachers down here thought the same.

[Anonymous No.17792897]

>>17792240
Turn the other cheek is more about little offenses. Say your neighbor drunkenly says some shit to pick up a fight with you. You let it slide and let him say whatever he wants instead of beating the shit out of him and getting into a family feud that last generations and involves revenge, lawyers, death, etc.
This teaching is not against self-defense. The Church has repeatedly stated its support for the concept of “just wars”, both in doctrine and in practice (i.e The Crusades).

[Anonymous No.17792908]

>>17792301
What about covers their poo when defecating?

[Anonymous No.17792926]

>>17792715
Another translation error because in English “meek” has this connotation of “cowardly, ineffectual”, while the Biblical definition is more of a “humble, obedient, patient”.

[Anonymous No.17793006]

>>17792240
These are rules to be used among those in your community, even the ones you have animosity against. People who agree to follow the same rules and prevent evil from taking root, despite having different and even antagonic goals in life than you.
You must not kill them, you must turn the other cheek, you must be ready to forgive, you must be ready to share with those in need. You must not let vendetta destroy your community from the inside.
Against the ones who want to destroy your community, your family and your faith you must be prepared to fight against.
Turning the other cheek to the world, accepting all refugees, letting crime and evil go unpunished inside your community, all that is bullshit

[Anonymous No.17793026]

>>17792715
mistranslation. it is actually the NEET who inherits the earth.

[Anonymous No.17793037]

>>17792301
If you're going to make an argument, come up with something better than a 13 year old r*dditor. These questions were answered about 2000 years ago and a quick google search would have saved you the embarrassment.

[Anonymous No.17793060]

Keep this thread up for another 24 hours please, I would like to discuss this but am too tired tonight.

[Anonymous No.17793260]

Can anyone recommend me some works by Church Fathers on forgiveness? I feel like I'm not really understanding it and the more I read about it the less I feel like I understand.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17793372]

>>17792240
You’re a labor pig who has to know his place.
So shut it, be good and wait for your reward upon death. Simple as.
Lovely faith, isn’t it?

[Anonymous No.17793373]

>>17792301
Furthermore, why do heaven and hell exist in the first place? Hell is clearly not going to make people become good, otherwise it wouldn't be eternal damnation. Likewise, why would good people have to go to heaven? To become gooder? Clearly, these man-made institutions are pointless and only serve to scare the peasantry and the uncritical into subservience.

[Anonymous No.17793391]

>>17792371
This is how you end up burning in hell for all of eternity.

[Anonymous No.17793504]

>>17793372
God created man and woman, while you are a man-made abomination, unclean and unfit for this earth. I can only pity you as you unrepentantly stray further into darkness and destruction, but I do hope for your return to the light.

[Anonymous No.17793564]

>>17792301
Mosaic law does not apply to Christians dumbdumb

>>17792240
That's not what those terms originally meant. You're 'meek' before God, not before evildoers. The implication is that you submit to God's Will instead of your own, and thus carry it out (hence Christ driving out the merchants)

[Anonymous No.17793662]

>>17792240
Because every human is a living, breathing (albeit fallen) image of God and thus deserves love and respect even when the favor is not always returned.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17793676]

>>17793504
I am a woman. Always have been. Stop obsessing and trying to insult, you filthy cretin

[Anonymous No.17794544]

>>17793373
>>17793372
To share the same posting time as butterfaggot...what an honour.

[Anonymous No.17794856]

>>17792240
he said 77 times, then after that, knock the ever living shit out them.

[Anonymous No.17794876]

>Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

[Anonymous No.17794883]

>>17793372
we can hear the lack of peace in your soul

[Anonymous No.17794900]

>>17793391
That sounds metal as fuck dude. Time to be a decent person!

[Anonymous No.17794907]

good thing i'm elect and don't have to deal with any of this shit

[Anonymous No.17794910]

sorry i meant erect

[Anonymous No.17795262]

OP here, thank you all for the insight. Clearly I have a lot more to learn but Im eager.

[Anonymous No.17795337]

>>17792381
>>17793391
you haven't read the bible.
And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”

>>17792371 is correct, it literally boils down to "be a good person (love god and your neighbor as yourself) and have faith (love god with all your heart, strength, soul, mind)"

[Anonymous No.17795338]

>>17794907
keyed

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.17796236]

>>17794883
We are at war

[Anonymous No.17796901]

>>17792240
That’s not what it means. There is a time and season. Study the life of Christ to know when meekness is necessary and when you need to beat the shit out of people.

[Anonymous No.17796906]

>>17792381
The implications of being baptized by water and of the spirit is why you are correct. People need to study that better because it’s a Gateway into receiving higher communication from the divine.

[Anonymous No.17796946]

>>17796236
I will pray for your soul Butte.
You are by essence misguided, but usually there is a foundation of goodfaith in your posts that is betrayed by this unreasonable hatred for the Catholic faith.

[Anonymous No.17797850]

>>17792434
Kapparot is not mentioned in the Torah or the Talmud, is only practiced in some Ashkenazi communities, and has been opposed by a bunch of scholars since people started doing it, including Nachmanides. There's even a religious argument against it on the basis that the Torah forbids Jews from causing unnecessary harm to animals, even psychologically.

[Anonymous No.17798857]

Forgive one means to surrender it to Gods judgment and you wish them the best, doesnt mean put yourself in the company of snakes routinely, if trust is broken it must be earned, you act accordingly, of course if someome is being a transgrssor dont fight fire with fire thats all it means doesnt mean forgo justice

[Anonymous No.17798925]

>>17792240
You are weak though, if not now then you will be. Bend your legs before your kneecaps give out, expand your memory with meaningful experience until you turn to dust. You’re completely at the mercy of the universe or whatever god you choose to project onto it.

[Anonymous No.17798933]

>>17792358
>Plus I'm pretty sure jews can't do that anymore either, now that there's no temple or jewish priesthood to observe such sacrifices.
The true Jews still do.

[Anonymous No.17799014]

>>17792240

[Anonymous No.17800206]

>>17792301
Don't listen to these sophists, you are totally correct:
>Mathew 5:17-18
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished”

So unless our dogmatic friends want to say that Heaven and Earth have already disappeared, then they're fucked. Besides, the OT is eschatological, and we haven't had an apocalypse.
>inb4 Jesus did us a secret apocalypse
Why are you fucks waiting around for him to come a second time then? With a second set of (cherrypicked) laws from NT? Admit that you are just doing mental gymnastics to defend a religion whose closed minded laws don't measure up to the (admittedly excellent) rhetoric of compassion that crops up in certain passages of Jesus' teaching. Lashing yourself to the Bible is making you bad Christians.

>>17793564
>>17793037
>>17792358
>>17792323

[Anonymous No.17800211]

>>17792371
This guy gets it. If you do that and get damned by some pitiless Desert God at the end then you still did good.

[Anonymous No.17800229]

>>17792450
The Bible benefits from revision over time, like with the "Take up serpents" passage which is kino and very archetypal. Turning the other cheek is important because taking responsibility for the Sins of others heals the world. The Bible saying this or that is irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.17800371]

>>17792240
Because you gain nothing from doing the opposite. Focus on God, not on the world.

[Anonymous No.17800375]

>>17800206
He came to fulfill the Law. The contract still stands. Through adam we are born to death and through Christs fulfillment, we are born again unto life. If you read the Sermon on the Mount again you'll see he criticizes the Jews practicing the Law. They may practice it to the letter, but in their hearts they are still dead. If you read Galatians you will see we are to come out of the Law and into the Spirit. So yes, the Law still stands and we are condemned under it so long as we are in Adam. But once we are born again, we are beyond it.

[Anonymous No.17800411]

>>17792434
>KAPPAROOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTT

[Anonymous No.17800526]

>>17800375
He didn't say that he would get us out of the Law if we put ourselves in Christ. He said that the Law would stand until Heaven and Earth disappear, which they haven't. You are head cannoning in a spectacular way, and if you saw someone else doing the same thing - for instance the "Islam is a religion of peace" crowd who cherrypick isolated statements in the Koran that are superseded anyway by later passages - you would say that they are doing mental gymnastics.

Christ is beautiful, God is beautiful, Creation is beautiful and Compassion is beautiful and Man also and all of these things are Good and necessary, but you can't follow the letter of that book without adhering to the 613 mitzvot so cool it on the dogma and put all that focus instead on your capacity for universal Love and Forgiveness.

[Anonymous No.17800545]

>>17792480
Imagine missing the point this much

[Anonymous No.17800577]

>>17792240
>but why would I love those who want to hurt me?
Because it is healthy, moral, and mature to do that. It requires great strength to love and forgive those who hate you, far more strength than picking up a sword.

[Anonymous No.17800747]

>>17800526
>You are head cannoning in a spectacular way,
What I said is written in the book of Galatians. You don't understand what the Law is and what it means to be fulfilled.

[Anonymous No.17800787]

>>17792301
just dont be a dick

[Anonymous No.17800824]

>>17800577
if it was harder to forgive than most people would be in prison.

[Anonymous No.17800862]

>>17800747
Wherever its written it is clearly directly contradicted by what Jesus said, because it was convenient for Paul the evangelist to put it that way. I have read Galations btw and how Paul believed we were made free of our 'binds'. Shame Jesus was so specific in his Sermon tho. Heaven and Earth disappear.

>"You don't understand the Law like I do"
Pure gatekeeping headcannon shtick

[Anonymous No.17800883]

>>17800862
So what exactly does it mean to fulfill the law?

[Anonymous No.17800884]

>>17792450
wrong, the word used is hostis, which means public enemy.

[Anonymous No.17801034]

>>17800883
For you or for Jesus? For you its the Mitzvot and for Jesus its fulfilling the messianic prophecies, most of which we have from Elijah. Prophecy and Law are literally the same thing: the word of God.

[Anonymous No.17801060]

>>17792240
>turns cheek because you’ve been back handed presenting the other to be openhanded, initiating a duel/challenge between peers, rather than servant/slave/subject & Master
Things the Varys of the world conveniently ignore

[Anonymous No.17801088]

>>17801060
>its muh duelling code so i don't have to be a cuck for Christ, right guys?

[Anonymous No.17801202]

>>17801060
this is the one of the stupidest interpretation made up by retarded americans who didn't even bother to read the full verse

[Anonymous No.17802676]

>>17800824
Most people are religious or theyre afraid of the law

[Anonymous No.17802681]

>>17792240
Abrahamic religions are not religions. They’re systems of power, and you got played very hard

[Anonymous No.17802701]

>>17792240
Old testament is better

[Anonymous No.17802831]

>>17799014
cringe and cope

[Anonymous No.17804016]

>>17792240
Turning the cheek is a metaphor

[Anynomous No.17804058]

>>17792260
Prove it.

[Anonymous No.17804197]

>>17792926
>>17792732
I don't buy it. The Bible has been translated into English for hundreds of years and nobody thought to translate it as something more appropriate like "humble shall inherit the earth", or "temperamental" or "tolerant"? "Those with self-control shall inherit the earth" might work too

[Anonymous No.17804230]

>>17804016
No it isn't.

[Anonymous No.17804255]

I don’t buy these translation arguments. You think God would have kept that into account when designing the Bible. If it’s going to be widely mistranslated then why didn’t God fix that?

[Anonymous No.17804697]

>>17804197
In Spanish for example the translation is:
>”Los mansos heredarán la tierra”
“Mansos” being the replacement of “meek”, which has an entirely different connotation. “Manso” is the word you would use to describe a horse that is obedient as opposed to disobedient, wild and rebellious. So you get the idea. Rebelliousness is a quality of the devil, not of the children of God. Obedience is a quality of Christ.
Meek isn’t an incorrect translation so much as an ambiguous one. The word itself has changed connotation because it has been used as a negative adjective to describe “weak, cowardly, ineffectual”. “Manso” on the other hand is ALWAYS used in a positive tone.

[Anonymous No.17804709]

>>17804255
That’s because it is clear we, the laymen, were never supposed to make doctrinal assumptions based on personal interpretation.
Have you ever read the Bible in a language different than English? You would be surprised at how much language can change your interpretation of a passage. See >>17804697

[Anonymous No.17804763]

>>17792240
All adherents of Abrahamic filth will fall into Ahriman's House of Lies. You can eat shit in hell with your beloved Jew who was a false prophet and stupid bastard.

[Anonymous No.17804892]

>>17792240

[Anonymous No.17805034]

>>17792480
>Because if you do this you're ahead of most people, and when you're ahead of most people it's like looking at your pet dog, he is still stupid and even when he creates chaos you still love him because he doesn't know, he is ignorant just like the people who do not see themselves in others

Sounds like pride to me

[Anonymous No.17805078]

>>17802676
most people are cowards, that's why. afraid of law? yes, that's a part of it, meaning it's harder

[Anonymous No.17805236]

>>17800206
1. He came to fulfil the law.
2. The commandments Jesus refers to explicitly, when questioned by the rich young man, are the ten commandments. When pressed on this issue by the rich young man as to what more he must do, Jesus does not reply that he needs to follow all the rest of the laws set down by Moses. Rather, He tells the young man to sell everything and follow Him.

[Anonymous No.17805255]

>JC fulfilled the law
LMAO where is the temple?