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/lit/ - Literature

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17786492 No.17786492 [Reply] [Original]

I know a thing or two about Spengler's philosophy. Ask me anything about "the Decline of the West"

>> No.17786631

>>17786492
bump

>> No.17786637

Wow that book seems horrible

>> No.17786663

>>17786492
How do you think the so called 'second religiousness' will emerge in the west?

>> No.17786684

>>17786663
Not OP. It seems like Marxism/IDpol is the second religiousness. Hitler is modern day Satan, so whatever the opposite of him is, that is the ultimate good.

>> No.17788081

>>17786492
Can I just pick it up and start reading it, or will I get filtered? I don't know much about math, but in the past I've been able to figure out other books that touch on things like calculus by looking things up online.

>> No.17788327

>>17786492
Any books that are like the one you expected?

>> No.17788380

>>17786663
Spengler predicted that the Second Religiousness would be like a combination of Gothic Christianity and Pentecostalism.

>> No.17788486

>>17786684
That's just standard cult-like behavior similar to the mystery cults during the decline of Rome. They are still solidly middle and upper class beliefs. Once the decline and tragedies start hitting for real during the next 100 years, that's when the religion comes back with a force.

>> No.17788501

>>17786492
Who was the last Apollonian Caesar? And how did Diocletian turn Rome into a 'caliph'?

>> No.17788763

>>17788486
The return to religiousness already started 100 bc when the Greeks started to abandon science for religion.

>> No.17788910

>>17786663
It could be wokeness or Marxism but it is also possible for the second religiousness to be some kind of racial reawakening too. Is that likely? I don't know. But it is possible.

>> No.17789905

>>17786663
it already has, it's seen in scientism, new age philosophy, woke culture, and, ironically, diet/hygiene fads. i don't think spengler intended the second religiousness to be a coherent religion so much as a return to the forms of religion warped into the content of a materialist world. there's a distinct religious fervor in pandemic hysteria, for instance.

>> No.17789919

>>17788081
you can without much background if you're a good reader. i'm decently well-read without an academic background in this stuff and i felt lost at sea in more than a few places. the best strategy i can recommend is to keep going over a section until you get it, and look up everything you don't know

>> No.17789926

>>17788486
gluten free diets were an attempt at mass penance

>> No.17789929

>>17788327
Sadly no

>> No.17789942

>>17788910
i doubt it, racial awakening already implies an alienated relationship to a reified self-image which is the decadent state par excellence. a culture is inherently racial but has passed into the civilization stage when it becomes conscious of itself.

>> No.17791513

>>17786663
First signs of it are appearing. Joseph Campbell (a big fan of Spengler himself) pretty much laid the groundwork for it. Its going to be mystery cult-esc but with a western spin on it.

>> No.17793470

>>17786492
bump

>> No.17793476

>>17786492
How does music connect to the Faustian "infinite space"?

>> No.17793481

>>17786492
What was the prime Magian art-form if we contrast it to the Apollonian nude statue?

>> No.17793487

How do you talk about the same book everyday for years on end? haven't you exhausted all possible topics of conversation already?

>> No.17793749

>>17786663
Ive thought a lot about Spengler's idea of second religiousness and what it might look like. If we truly believe in the Spenglerian concept of the high culture as super-organism then would it not be fitting to worship this being as our God? And would this not in fact sustain the organisms very existence? The more I think about it the more it seems to me that it is necessary to worship this organism.

>> No.17793836

>>17786663
SJW, Cult of Kek, progressivism, equity cult, science cult of Bill Nye and Thunberg, Aztec god of California, Q.

>> No.17794324

>>17793836
Most of these are just signs of a late culture intellect and Caesarism not of a second religiousness. SJW is just our form of a world improving ideology. Kek if it wasn't ironic would be a good example of a second religiousness icon but I doubt anyone got to that level. Equality again has to do with world improvers. Science is just an autumn stage intellectualism, Never heard about Aztec god of California. Q is just Caesarism .
>>17793476
Can't see it and it is a force rather then just something that stands still (statue) and makes one feel for the space around them in which music surrounds.
>>17793481
Megian art was the words/patterns written on the walls of mosques.
>>17793487
Lots of new people that are getting into it I guess.

>> No.17794413

>>17793476
Consider the violin versus the lyre; one is plucked, the other sends an unbroken note into the infinite

>> No.17794809

Damn. Spengler was so prescient about the obsession with infinite space in Faustian culture that his theory is currently being reinforced by modern pursuits that never even existed or seemed remotely possible during his lifetime.

>> No.17795113

>>17786492
Best unabridged translation?

>> No.17795376

>>17786492
Will Western Civilization be stagnant like China, India and Arabia or will it die like the Greeks?

>> No.17795656

>>17795376
I would say that the closest historical analogue for our death will likely turn out to be the fall of Rome, in that sense, yes, the Greeks.

>> No.17795930

>>17795113
There's only one English translation.

>> No.17796211
File: 1.42 MB, 576x1024, 1615902153685.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17796211

>here's your new religiousness, bro

>> No.17796375

>>17795656
Well why though? Why can't it remain for a long time like the Chinese? I hope that whites will remain walking in Europe and America.

>> No.17796604

>>17795376
If it expands to other planets, yes its winter will extend. If not, no, it will die.

>> No.17796628

>>17795113
Just wait for Arktos to drop their planned reprints of the unabridged translation. Knopf press copies are hard to come by, have significant wear, and are overpriced.

>> No.17796646

>>17786492
How does Buddhism become Indian "atheism" at par with Western Socialism?

>> No.17796655

>>17786492
Question: How necessary is to know/understand Kant in order to appreciate this book or get something out of it? I remember trying to read it and stumbling upon "Kant" three times per page.

>> No.17796741

>>17786684
>>17793836
>>17789905
>>17788910
Spengler talks about this in Decline of the west. Socialism, atheism, rationalism and science above all etc is the precursor to the second religiousness. Second religiousness comes when the people find all these things to be vacuous of meaning and search for something to make them feel whole again

>> No.17796766

>>17788380
>pengler predicted that the Second Religiousness would be like a combination of Gothic Christianity and Pentecostalism.
where?
I did not see this anywhere in his texts.
>>17789905
this is the most appropriate answer.
The second religiousness doesn't need to be revival of a specific type of religion but simply a religious fervor in the people; and this can be seen in any of the odd mentalities people so devoutely latch onto. A continuous decline in church goers does not imply a decrease in religious-minded thinking in the populance.
And let's be fair and not just say the last 15 years had this second religiousness but since long before this second religiousness had emerged.
>>17793476
he writes about this in the decline.
Musicians do not conceptualize the notes as they are written on sheet paper, but as infinitesimal (jsut like derivatives in mathematics)
>>17796655
you need to be able to draw the distinction between Kantian and Goethian conception of philosophy. Neither wrong but very different. If you fail to see this bifurcation most of the book will be lsot on you.
The decline of the occident is a philosophical book through and through. So why approach it any differentially than other philosophical works where you need to have done the required prerequisite reading?

>> No.17796776

>>17793749
interesting post. what led you to this idea? i can understand wanting to monitor the health of the organism as a whole and ordering society accordingly, but worshiping the super-organism? i've never thought about that. how can we worship something we are a part of? isn't "the other" an intrinsic part of devotion?

>> No.17796805

>>17796766
>you need to be able to draw the distinction between Kantian and Goethian conception of philosophy. Neither wrong but very different. If you fail to see this bifurcation most of the book will be lsot on you.
>The decline of the occident is a philosophical book through and through. So why approach it any differentially than other philosophical works where you need to have done the required prerequisite reading?

On that note, another question: how does an amateur ehtusiast of philosophy approach authors? It seems that you have to have read every major philosopher before the one you're reading. It's very discouraging

>> No.17796821

Everyone saying that Second Religiousness is nihilism/atheism/woke-ism/etc are wrong. If you want to see the first genuine glints of Second Religiousness look to France's recent rejection of all of these things as perverted frontier Americanisms, the proposal to make Latin the Lingua Franca of Europe instead of English, etc. Woke-ism is the vacuous nihilism that will lead to Second Religiousness as a reaction. It is the financially-motivated strategy of the Optimates used to conserve the money-supremacist order of the current. Second Religiousness ushers in the destruction of this order with Caesar and the Populares and the rise of pure force politics.

>> No.17796858

>>17796805
>It seems that you have to have read every major philosopher before the one you're reading.
that is not just how it seems, that is how it is.
>It's very discouraging
bullocks. it is exciting and invigorating to get to read so many great works.
jsut stick to fiction writing philosophers if you do not care to put in the effort.

>> No.17796898

>>17796805
You should at least be familiar with what earlier philosophers generally said. You can read them out of order but you won't get the fullest out of them. And if you do read them out of order you should go back and reread later philosophers to see what you missed. Obviously though if you're reading someone who's referencing The Republic (read: most of Western philosophy) and you haven't read The Republic how much are you really getting out of it?

>> No.17797250

>>17796805
It depends on the philosopher, and which work. If the work is a direct continuation, or a direct rebuttal, then being unfamiliar with the work they reference will limit your understanding.
If they do a good job of introducing their own ideas, reference in a way that helps you understand what they are referencing, and you also have personal thought/experience to draw from, then it isn't absolutely required like this is some school assignment that was demanded of you.
A personal connection based on your own thoughts/experience to a work is far greater than a purely knowledge based one. Wisom/understanding vs. intelligence/knowing.
Understanding is different to knowing, in the sense that a true understanding of a work can only be had if you, yourself, have some sort of personal experience/original thought to connect to the work.
Another way to put it would be a synthetic vs. an organic understanding.

>> No.17797445

Let's suppose Spengler is right; What do you think will be the legacy of faustian civilization for future cultures?

>> No.17797557

>>17797445
BBC

>> No.17797824

what was spengler's opinion on marxism?

>> No.17797837

>>17791513
>Its going to be mystery cult-esc but with a western spin on it.
The sudden interest in eastern religions here makes me think this might be true.

>> No.17798071

>>17797250
I think even Spengler, nearing the end of his life, thought that faustian, after spreading its culture across the globe, would bring the rest of the world with it in death. Man and Technics talks about this. So there wouldn't be any future cultures for faustian civilization to be judged by

>> No.17798222

>>17798071
so that's the cost of enjoying life, huh?