/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17747240]

What happens to people like me who have been disillusioned out of false hopes but haven't been sold on christianity? Hanging out in tradcath and spergler threads and picking up your book suggestions has ruined me. So far I've been made to lose hope in:
>any salvation coming for us out of technological progress and its false promises for a happy life in mere comfort
>any salvation coming for us out of scientific advancement that will bestow us with some great knowledge and supposedly wane away our existential dreads and fear of the future or death
>any salvation coming for us out of political """progress""" that will mould a perfect society of endless opportunities and have us singing kumbaya in the starlight
>any salvation coming for us out of X or Y economic theory that'll provide us with abundant material possessions and drown out our spiritual needs
>any other hopeless materialist outlook peddled by bugmen on twitter/reddit/instagram story
What's left for me then? Do I have to embrace a meme like Camus or Sartre's existentialism and call it a day? Do I keep looking? If so, where outside of christianity?

[Anonymous No.17747256]

>>17747240
Stop using /lit/ as a life guide

[Anonymous No.17747434]

Western esotericism? Either that or go eastern

[Anonymous No.17747466]

Just read some Christian books and then decide. It's not that complicated.

[Anonymous No.17747482]

>>17747240
they go to hell

[Anonymous No.17747523]

>>17747434
Esotericism is a fucking dead end
t. was lucky enough to realize it was bullshit after getting really deep into it

[Anonymous No.17747531]

>>17747240
Read Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.17747536]

>>17747523
How is it a dead end?

[Anonymous No.17747561]

>>17747240
>Hanging out in tradcath and spergler threads
It was already over for you before it even began

[Anonymous No.17747582]

>>17747536
It leads nowhere. You chase these mystical states that, in the end, amount to nothing more than a rewiring of your subjective experience with no deeper implications, though of course it will appear as though there are deep implications because you'll have trained yourself to believe so.
Any promise of absolute truth or of some kind of transcendental "attainment" is a meme. Just as much as the people who think DMT showed them the truth of the universe. It's easy to convince yourself you've peeked behind the veil when in fact you just fall prey to your confirmation bias and wishful thinking.
Of course if some esotericists read this they'll spaz out and say I haven't actually attained those states or that I missed the point or whatever because there's always a good excuse with these people, if you realize they have nothing to offer than you just haven't gotten deep enough into the bullshit.
You won't find truth in metaphysics and especially not in esotericism.

[Anonymous No.17747704]

>>17747582
ok hylic

[Anonymous No.17747705]

>>17747240
spengler is an atheist

[Anonymous No.17747713]

>>17747582
How do you know your "unaltered" states are the truth?

[Anonymous No.17747741]

>>17747531
Dont OP- I mean do, but its a waste of time for the most part. He was a seething fool for 80% of it and 20% is ancient ideas repackaged.

>>17747240
Your individual salvation is just the beginning. The point is to get yourself to a point where helping others is the journey and the destination all in itself. Organised religion is for the most part bollocks, but the idea of God's oneness is the most powerful belief I've come across and ever held and the one that's been the most uplifting to me. Xtianity seems like a giant roman deception designed to trick people into worshipping idols and glorifying man.

If you are willing (i.e. not an foolish anti semite) I highly recommend mussar works like Duties of the Heart.

[Anonymous No.17747752]

>>17747713
I don't. So?
>>17747704
You people are so predictable it hurts me to think I used to be like this.

[Anonymous No.17747777]

>>17747741
t. has never read Nietzsche
The only waste of time is your mystical garbage

[Anonymous No.17747792]

>>17747752
>(((You people))) are so predictable it hurts me to think I used to be like this.
uhm... what are you implying anon?

[Anonymous No.17747857]

>>17747582
Chasing mystical states isn't really the point of western esotericism though. That's more the aim of druggies, "psychonauts" and people purely into astral projection and shit like that. The main tradition is about alchemy, self-transformation.

[Anonymous No.17747880]

>>17747792
The esotericist is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a scoundrel, parasite, swindler, profiteer, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But tell him his "truth" is self-delusion, and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: "I’ve been found out."

[Anonymous No.17747916]

>>17747777
I've read the BOfT; H,ATH; BG&E; TSZ; parts of GofM and ToftheI.

He is a sad, seething fool and a wanna-be anti nihilist.

[Anonymous No.17747928]

>>17747857
This is misleading. The experience of altered states is seen as a catalyst for transformation, but this transformation, in all traditions where it is relevant enough to be given a name (henosis, nirvana, moksha, kevala, etc) is the promise of a state "beyond" humanity, that will bestow the practicioner with a transcendental truth he would never have found otherwise. I think this is pure delusion.

[Anonymous No.17747933]

>>17747880
> tell him his "truth" is self-delusion
All truth is self delusional. Humans cannot know the truth, we can only have beliefs about it. Epistemology 101. Only God knows the truth

[Anonymous No.17747947]

>>17747933
>All truth is self delusional. Humans cannot know the truth, we can only have beliefs about it. Epistemology 101. Only God knows the truth
At least this is what I believe.

[Anonymous No.17747957]

>>17747933
>All truth is self delusional.
Yes. I am denouncing esotericism's tendency to present truth as absolute and to try to monopolize the means to its attainment on top of that.

[Anonymous No.17747965]

>>17747916
I see you feel quite strongly about Nietzsche, but how about making an argument?

[Anonymous No.17747970]

>>17747240
Hermeticism until one or the other regains appeal in that new light. Alternatively more hard revisionist history investigation until you have a better lay of the world-historical land. Then there’s wu/acceleration/eco if you just need your eggs scrambled. If there’s Tesla tier energy and space travel in existence already, where is this all headed? What are the intentions of these factions in possession of it, if good or if evil?

[Anonymous No.17748019]

Become a stoic and prepare for your death.

[Anonymous No.17748069]

>>17747957
>Yes. I am tilting at windmills.

[Anonymous No.17748083]

>>17748069
>>17747880

[Anonymous No.17748097]

>>17747240
>What's left for me then?

[Anonymous No.17748106]

>>17747240
This is pretty great question.

I think a lot of people nowadays are unable to find comfort in any of the """progressive""" ideologies, that hope that eliminating material desires will make us any happier, but they also aren't convinced by the blind reactionism of conservative ideologies, and Christianity's over reliance on faith is a deal breaker.

I think Stoicism is what you're looking for. It values of pursuit of virtue, which is something that's been almost completely lost in the modern world, and it has a very empowering definition of happiness (or eudaemonia, as the Stoics put it). They view the pursuit of eudaemonia as the pursuit of virtue, rather than the pursuit of health, wealth, or sensory pleasure, as many ideologies today view it. It also has a vaguely spiritual element, as it argues that there is a path to understanding the Logos, or the divine reason of the Universe.

I'm not a Stoic, but it's a philosophy that I've seen help many in your situation.

It's more fulfilling that the "just do whatever gives you purpose" mentality of the existentialists and it's more grounded in reason than most religions.

[Anonymous No.17748113]

>>17747582
This.

Take it from experienced anons, esotericism is a meme. There is a reason their practices and beliefs died out. They don't work because they aren't the truth.

[Anonymous No.17748133]

>>17748113
>There is a reason their practices and beliefs died out.
They didn't, that's the worst part.

[Anonymous No.17748138]

>>17747240
Read Evola

[Anonymous No.17748183]

>>17748133
Nah, they did. Anyone who practices today practices from a book, usually translated from a language they don't understand. It's a dead art, if it could be called that.

>>17747240
tbhrqhwydesu OP, you're looking in the wrong places.

The "ideologies" of man will never satisfy. There is only one truth, one way, and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ. The good news according to those who knew him. Go talk to a Catholic priest and see about getting baptized.

[Anonymous No.17748202]

>>17748183
>Anyone who practices today practices from a book, usually translated from a language they don't understand.
>There is only one truth, one way, and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
dumb tradlarper

[Anonymous No.17748230]

>>17748202
NT was written in Greek, which I am learning for a few reasons but primarily biblical study

[Anonymous No.17748242]

>>17748083
>x does not lead to truth
>bad guys think truth is absolute
>therefore, there is no truth actually
>this proposition doesn't have a truth value

[Anonymous No.17748269]

>>17748242
>>therefore, there is no truth actually
No, this doesn't follow. I do think truth is personal, but this is why I dislike esotericism, and not the other way around.
>>this proposition doesn't have a truth value
I don't care for epistemology.

[Anonymous No.17748329]

>>17748269
>No, this doesn't follow.
no shit
>I don't care for epistemology.
nor logic I assume

stop faffin about. give me some fucking meat. what do YOU think then? Are you some kind of born again I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE-kid? Are you the Nietzschean above? Just tell me and stop being a vague cunt

[Anonymous No.17748348]

>>17748329
Why are you acting like a bratty child? Did my dismissal of esotericism make you angry?

[Anonymous No.17748389]

>>17748348
Maybe I am bratty child? And nah, I don't really care, I'm just curious.

[Anonymous No.17748395]

>>17747240
>start getting into christianity
>start reading the bible, related christian works, listen to christian preachers
>everything I learn slowly pushes me more and more away from christianity
>when I ask questions I unironically get told "stop thinking" or "stop asking questions"
>back at square one
I'm in the same boat, OP. I'll tell you if I figure it out but don't hold your breath

[Anonymous No.17749844]

Here's my answer OP:
One: align yourself with a cause, some big issue. Cure a neurodegenerative disease in children, find a pragmatic solution to world conflicts, uproot the underworld of organized crime.
Two: be there for your close ones, they will need you and you will need them. Build a support network, start a family. Before you reach good old senility, teach your children to fight the battles you no longer can.
Three: flourish as an individual. Strive for mastery over a difficult subject or art. Explore for the sake of exploration. Learn the mysteries of the world.

[Anonymous No.17749908]

>>17747240
You just keep on going, hopefully your life gets bigger as you grow.
I was in the same boat as you in my early twenties but my job just kept getting bigger and bigger, so I stopped hanging out on /lit/ so much that it was affecting my thoughts, and then I got married, so I'm now on /lit/ almost once a week because I spend most of my weekend time doing social stuff she organizes.
We want to have kids and I imagine I'll be on here once or twice a year once that happens.
And life has meaning, because I have something people rely on me to do all day, which rewards me well, and I have someone who relies on me to be happy and together at home- so I'm happy and together at home.
I'm left to conclude that meaning/satisfaction does not come in isolation but through actions and relationships over time.

[Anonymous No.17749974]

>>17748395
>Protestantism
shame, Martin Luther's devilry has sent untold millions to hell

Anons, Protestantism is a branch of Christianity that split from Catholicism. Their brand is literally "don't think, you can only read the bible in the most absurd literalist ways possible (or whichever way we tell you)." Which is fucking rich given that was their complaint against the role of Catholic tradition in preserving the deposite of faith.

[Anonymous No.17751223]

>>17749974
lmao wrong church retard it was orthodoxy

[Anonymous No.17751350]

>>17747240
>>17748395
I'd recommend this book for you two. Easy to read and provides real, substantive answers

[Anonymous No.17751865]

Camus existentialism is a conscious form of self-delusion and I have my doubts wether anyone is capable of sustaining it for an extended period of time, much less an entire life.