/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17731637]

What are some books that refute Calvinism?

[Anonymous No.17731644]

>>17731637
I don't know but can I ask why you're looking for one?

[Anonymous No.17731648]

>>17731637
Image is retarded. Calvinists do not believe that God is the author of sin.

[Anonymous No.17731654]

>>17731644
Calvinism makes good evil.

[Anonymous No.17731655]

>>17731637

[Anonymous No.17731660]

17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory

[Anonymous No.17731662]

>>17731637
The Bible

[Anonymous No.17731668]

>>17731648
Is predestination not exactly that tho?

[Anonymous No.17731688]

>>17731668
No. God gave them over to their wickedness. There's the story about Jacob's brothers explaining precisely that.

[Anonymous No.17731703]

>>17731654
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

[Anonymous No.17731710]

>>17731668
Like most doctrines it is a bit more nuanced than that.

[Anonymous No.17731721]

>>17731637

[Anonymous No.17731729]

>>17731721
A Bible translation that was produced by Calvinists? Wew.

[Anonymous No.17731734]

>>17731688
>>17731710
So does the old testament not count?
>7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7

[Anonymous No.17731751]

>>17731729
>produced by Calvinists
Have you really not read the history of the 47?

[Anonymous No.17731754]

>>17731734
I'm not sure how you think this goes opposed to what I said. Evil is a part of creation but God doesn't force them to be evil he lifts his restraint on their wicked nature.

[Anonymous No.17731800]

>>17731751
Have you not read the 39 Articles of the Church of England to which the translators belonged?

[Anonymous No.17731821]

>>17731754
If the number of those that are elected for everlasting life is constant and unchangeable, salvation seems pointless since those that will be saved will be saved and those that won't be saved are doomed to everlasting death. How does that vibe with free will?

[Anonymous No.17731919]

>>17731637
The Bible. Calvinists have to jump through absurd hoops to defend TULIP biblically, like saying all doesn't mean all in 1 Timothy 2:4

[Anonymous No.17731935]

>>17731821
I don't believe in free will.

[Anonymous No.17731942]

>>17731648
I've heard plenty of Calvinists claim he is when I used to debate this stuff. You push a Calvinist too far on the logic of their arguments and they sound like total nihilists

[Anonymous No.17731950]

>>17731935
So then god, or atleast the nature which he created for them, forces them to be wicked

[Anonymous No.17731956]

>>17731950
See >>17731660

[Anonymous No.17731968]

>>17731956
So basically
>I get to assrape you because you're nothing to me

[Anonymous No.17731986]

>>17731968
Ignoring your vulgarity no. The punishment comes because people have transgressed against the holy God who is perfectly just and will punish them accordingly. He did ordain creation to make his attributes known in the salvation of his elect and the destruction of his enemies yes.

[Anonymous No.17732011]

>>17731800
I'll concede to you. I remember reading in a history book that there were catholic members within the committees as well as puritans and some other denomination. But there's to much to sift through right now so I'll submit.

[Anonymous No.17732017]

>>17731986
How can he punish them for transgressions which he pre-ordained?

[Anonymous No.17732127]

>>17732011
It was the Puritans who requested a new translation at the Hampton Court conference and the Puritans were pretty much all Calvinists. Some of the translators may have been more "Catholic" than others, since the Church of England has always been mixed theologically, but they were all Church of England clergy and required to affirm the 39 Articles. I'll just post Article XVII.

>XVII. Of Predestination and Election
>Predestination to Life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby (before the foundations of the world were laid) he hath constantly decreed by his counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of mankind. and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honour. Wherefore, they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God be called according to God's purpose by his Spirit working in due season: they through Grace obey the calling: they be justified freely: then be made sons of God by adoption: they be made like the image of his only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ: they walk religiously in good works, and at length, by God's mercy, they attain to everlasting felicity.

>As the godly consideration of Predestination, and our Election in Christ, is full of sweet, pleasant, and unspeakable comfort to godly persons, and such as feel in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ, mortifying the works of the flesh, and their earthly members, and drawing up their mind to high and heavenly things, as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their faith of eternal Salvation to be enjoyed through Christ, as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God: So, for curious and carnal persons, lacking the Spirit of Christ, to have continually before their eyes the sentence of God's Predestination, is a most dangerous downfall, whereby the Devil doth thrust them either into desperation, or into wretchedness of most unclean living, no less perilous than desperation.

>Furthermore, we must receive God's promises in such wise, as they be generally set forth to us in Holy Scripture: and, in our doings, that Will of God is to be followed, which we have expressly declared unto us in the Word of God.

[Anonymous No.17732187]

someone post the christian mental gymnastics vs gnosticism meme

[Anonymous No.17732261]

>>17732127
Thank you for clearing that up, anon. Though, I still believe their kjv refutes their predestination beliefs when paired with dispensationalism.

[Anonymous No.17732340]

>>17731986
>The punishment comes because people have transgressed against the holy God who is perfectl
How can you transgress against a perfect god that is the cause of everything, necessarily including you and your transgressions?

[Anonymous No.17732628]

>>17731751
Most of the kjv translators were puritans.

[Anonymous No.17732680]

>>17731637
>I hate sin
then why do you allow us to do so?

[Anonymous No.17733651]

>>17731637
The Holy Bible (KJV)

[Anonymous No.17733786]

>>17733651
How does that refute Calvinism?

[Anonymous No.17733790]

>>17731648
Calvinists can't into the conclusions of their own dogma.

[Anonymous No.17733844]

>I casually determine people to sin

Is this supposed to make sense? It seems like a computer wrote it, or someone who's ESL.

[Anonymous No.17733903]

>>17733844
I'd think you are ESL if you didn't understand it.

[Anonymous No.17734038]

Not a Christian, but in my eyes God did create sin and evil. Why? I dunno, maybe He needed entertainment.

[Anonymous No.17734252]

>>17734038
We can't be good if there isn't evil

[Anonymous No.17734758]

>>17733651
see >>17732628

[Anonymous No.17734777]

I hate Christians so much making your funny hahaha images about God or prophets turning the sacred into jokes and memes, you are as bad as Jews

[Anonymous No.17734803]

>>17731703
That only affirms a sort of single predestination, which basically every sect of Christianity that isn't some Pelagio-Mormon LARP accepts to some degree.

[Anonymous No.17734805]

>>17731637
There’s nothing that refutes Calvinism.

[Anonymous No.17735376]

>>17731821

Consider free will being so radically free that is goes "backwards" as well, into the very act of "creation", so that one is free to not only do Evil but to be Evil.

[Anonymous No.17735398]

Previously on predestination:

>>>/lit/thread/S17066449#p17066706
>The idea that free will precedes one's birth, that one precedes one's birth, is at least implicit if not explicit in most of Christianity, excluding Catholicism, which is not Christian at all. The Protestant obsession with determinism goes far enough to Dialectically reach absolute free will, i.e. life is so determined that even one's (ostensible) experience of determinism could be Epistemologically indistinguishable from one's false experience of free will relative to God's true determinism, that God actually determined this when one thinks he determined that, his determinism ever imploding lest the determined defiles it by knowing, its Epistemological retreat indistinguishable from an Ontological one, lest he defiles it by being.

[Anonymous No.17736259]

>>17735398

Reply, cowards.

[Anonymous No.17736277]

>>17736259
Revolting? Do you like that? Come on. Tell everyone you don't like it. They're waiting. Speak up.