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/lit/ - Literature

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17718647 No.17718647 [Reply] [Original]

Any progress on your novels?

previous thread: >>17709572

Share your work
>Royal Road

For Prose:
>The Art of Fiction
>Story Genius: How to Use Brain Science to Go Beyond Outlining and Write a Riveting Novel (Before You Waste Three Years Writing 327 Pages That Go Nowhere)
>On Becoming A Novelist
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>How Fiction Works
>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>Steering the Craft

For Poetry:
>The Poetry Home Repair Manual
>Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry

Related Material:
>What Editors Do
>A Student's Introduction to English Grammar
>Garner's Modern English Usage

Suggested books on storytelling:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Romance the Beat

Suggested books on getting your fucking work done you lazy piece of shit:
>Deep Work
>Atomic Habits

Traditional publishing
> Formatting manuscript
> Write a query
> Track your query

Other Resources
>General grammar/syntax/editing help
> When/where/how should I write?
> What software should I write with?
> Amazon Publishing to make that KDP monie
> Be like Charles Dickens and write serially
> Basic overview of the Screenplay format

>> No.17718656

First for unpublished authors shitting on unpublished authors

>> No.17718675

Feels good to finally have an on-topic writing thread. Post your work anons, maybe we can gt some good constructive criticism going.

>> No.17718682
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really nigger

>> No.17718686
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Reposting here since the other thread capped out.

I published part 2/5 of my thoughts on living in France. If anyone could provide feedback on this installment, that'd be awesome. Also, if you really dig it then subscribing would be amazing. It's hard to build a following on Substack.


>> No.17718690

post an excerpt of part one.

>> No.17718714

I'm developing an abuse fetish watching so many YouTube videos of women telling me why my writing is shit.

>> No.17718719

Part 1 is on the Substack, it's the post prior. It's not necessary, though. All the entries are disjointed anecdotes and observations. I'm 26 and moved from Canada to France on a whim in the middle of a pandemic, that's about all that needs to be known. I'm trying not to make it about "me" so much.

>> No.17718751

I've been writing for years and about two years ago I started to seriously begin studying Japanese. The more time I dedicate to studying that language, the harder it is for me to write in English, as my head has multiple meanings for words, or I start thinking a sentence through in Japanese, then need to convert it to an English equivalent. It's frustrating. I was hoping that the more fluent I became with Japanese, it would stop happening, but the opposite seems to be happening and I'm enjoying writing less because I keep getting stuck trying to remember the right words.
Does anyone else have a similar issue with languages? I'm honestly thinking of dropping Japanese so I can focus entirely on writing again.

>> No.17718767
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I need opinions on my amateur story about Filipino vigilantes.

>> No.17718818

Is this your first time learning another language? Didn't you have foreign languages at school?

>> No.17718842

I did, but either I never quite reached this level of fluency, or it was similar enough to English that it was always easy to convert things mentally without much thought.

>> No.17718882

It's alright for a travel blog, but those are a dime a dozen. If you want to make a story of it, you have to, well... make a story. The great nonfiction travel writers had some really stupendously unique experience to write about, or had a uniquely-presented narrative about the place... usually both.

>I'm trying not to make it about "me" so much
Maybe you should.

>> No.17718949
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Today I'm listening to soothing 80's pop songs and writing about contradictory orders from different instructors.

>> No.17718956

This happens to me too. Mother tongue is Chinese, but I mostly write in English. Now when I write in Chinese, I have a hard time nailing the words and sentences. They all feel off to me, no longer 'proper' in a purely Chinese setting. Sometimes you see writings that are obviously written first in English, then reconstructed back into Chinese. Extremely atrocious to read. There's also the problem of not remembering how a character is written, and it can be difficult to look up on it because you have to know how it's written first in order to do just that. That's one of the reasons I seldom write in Chinese these days.

>> No.17718980

Thanks, yeah, maybe you're right. I just find the places I go to so much more interesting than myself. I'm not really the attraction here, Paris is. Or Sofia. Or Budapest. Or the Adriatic, or the commieblocks, or the speakeasys.

>> No.17719005
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Is sci-fi my genre, /lit/?

>> No.17719064

A short critique:
Without putting yourself in as a "character" in the journals, they feel a bit aimless. They're bits and pieces put together that don't have a hook to them. They're plain information given with neither the brevity of wikipedia nor the depth of a history book. The appeal to a reader of a travel blog is the person traveling and their opinions, and while the history and facts are important, they're only necessary insofar as they get across your opinions. If I wanted to know the history of the Haussmannian Building, I could read about it on wikipedia, and if I was really interested, I could read a book about it. Give me your take, how it felt when you first saw it, the small dirty details that you remember caught your eye; the unfortunate homeless dude sitting outside which somewhat spoiled the mood by creating an uncomfortable juxtaposition, the simply cute french girl who kept pulling your eye away from the wonderful architecture and [humorous quip about love]. Those are the things which would appeal to readers and make the posts unique.
I'm exaggerating my qualms a bit because I truly enjoy the posts as they are, but I do think they need more uniqueness and personality to make them great.

>> No.17719140

>I'm not really the attraction here, Paris is
The problem is I don't see any attraction in what you're writing I couldn't have gotten out of a guidebook, as this anon >>17719064 said.

Another way to look at it is: what is the unique contribution of your writing over the writings of another hundred thousand chaps who've been to Paris? Show me the uniqueness, if it's there.

>> No.17719184
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I tried.

>> No.17719188
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>> No.17719193
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Pretty much still a beginner here. Don’t except Shakespeare.

>> No.17719203

>Don’t except Shakespeare.
Well, you're writing and progressing, no matter how slow, so that puts you ahead of the curve from most of /wg/, with only the animefags beating you.

>> No.17719220

I wish I wrote in a language you guys could read so you could tell me if I've been wasting my time.

>> No.17719229

I read this. It’s need another round of editing, the prose is awkward in places and some of your descriptions are repetitive (reread paragraph 18).

Your setting is weak once they leave the cinema and the action scene with the metal spider is almost comical in how it’s written. Your voice in this is a bit weird too, I think maybe you were aiming for a Douglas adams type of not-taking-yourself-too-seriously when I got to the spider scene? Is the Bargainer intended to be understood as a cool road warrior type guy or some wacko with a robot girl fetish? He’s coming off as a wacko who enjoys tormenting robots (and the robot he is being an ass to is also the key to saving the world?)

The description where the Girl tries to kill herself / destroy the collar? Is confusing. There are other similar action sequences which are similarly confusing.

You mention bandits, savages, and rebels. I understand you are trying to set the world up as dangerous, but they feel silly if you don’t see any of those types of characters. These introductory chapters just need a bit more world building in them I think...

Also you switch from present to past tense several times, pick one.

>> No.17719242
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I'm the wordy fag obsessed with meaninglessness from the last thread. You guys gave me some of the best, most actionable criticism I've received and I want to say that I hear you and I am adjusting. I still feel strongly about the piece I shared (or an idealized, future version of it) but I can see that there's just not enough foreplay. My idea right now is to insert the madness as a more gradual development, or even a kind of nested story. If the narrator receives a letter (for example) containing what appears to be nonsense, maybe another layer of separation will make it more palatable, in that a reader can empathize with the narrator rather than being forced to rationalize it themselves. The narrator can himself do some of the work of interpreting, and in him the reader can find reassurance that their confused is reasonable and anticipated. I'm still really attached to the concept of manipulating and playing with meaning, but in review it seems like it makes more sense (yeah yeah) to have the plot follow a traditional Heart of Darkness plot structure. I like the idea of the journey being paralleled by the writing style rather than being tied strictly to the events of the story, but nothing is set in stone.

I wait to give this somewhere close to the minimum amount of work so I don't get too caught up in it to actually write, but I'm still fuzzy. Am I barking up the right tree?

>> No.17719269

Are you writing in English because you want to or because you think you need to?

>> No.17719291

But I'm not writing in English. That's why I said what I did. I was just butting into the conversation.

>> No.17719321


Thank you. You're right. I've taken yours and the other anons' comments to heart. There are plenty of interesting anecdotes that I can and will share in subsequent posts.

In Barbes, a North African ghetto of Paris, I was detained by the police with pockets full of opiates. I was trying to buy adderall off the street and got caught by undercover officers. One of the most terrifying experiences of my life, and one that points to true, genuine privilege. The police let me go without penalty, despite having handed over baggies full of Klonopin and Oxycodone. This, after watching North Africans get put in handcuffs every day on my street for (presumably) having hash on them. But being a young professional Canadian was enough for them to say, fuck it, let him walk.

>> No.17719324


If you want to follow along, consider subscribing. I'd be grateful if you did. Building a substack audience ain't easy, and every sign-up helps.

>> No.17719325

Sorry, anon, I pulled an all-nighter so I'm not all there. What is your main language and are you sure you can't find a group to help you?

>> No.17719354

Finnish and I'm sure I could but I like you guys better.

>> No.17719401

Don’t cripple your potential, anon. Especially for us. The vast majority of these threads are just blogposting, shitposting, anons asking stupid questions, animefags posting their newest update, and a small but vocal minority of anons only caring about the OP not being anime.

>> No.17719414

Based on a dream I had.

She found herself standing in a place she had never been before. Empty grassland stretched in every direction under a clear blue sky. To her left was a long wooden picnic table with nothing on it. In front of her loomed a huge oak tree that blocked out the sun. Under the tree a figure hidden entirely by a black robe sat in a throne made of polished white marble.

As she approached the figure to ask for help it stood and raised one arm. A pair of tentacles shot out of its sleeve and wrapped around each of her arms. She was held dangling in midair as the figure walked towards her.

>> No.17719415

Just write in Swedish, like every other Finn.

>> No.17719427

I think there are multiple Finnbros in these threads actually besides me

>> No.17719478

Dreamed you were a woman, eh?
>tfw ywn

>> No.17719667

>Share your work
>>Royal Road
Is this why your so obsessed with making the threads? So you can shill royal road?
Fuck off

>> No.17719747

“How am I not better than this flavour of the month garbage?” He tore out a handful of pages and stuffed them into his mouth.

“Sir you want me to call security?”

>> No.17719830

Where else can we share our work?
Formatting here is shite.

>> No.17719842

>Where else can we share our work?
By publishing traditionally you animefag. God, you think because you self-publish you think you’re hot shit. But you’re not. You will never reach the heights of Dostoevsky or any other great authors.

>> No.17719862

>You will never reach the heights of Dostoevsky or any other great authors.
As someone who actually has that ambition, I can totally imagine an author being perfectly happy with being "only" good, or even mediocre. Not everyone wants to try to compete with the greats to plant an elbow at the table, and that's fine. They're probably much happier.

>> No.17719865

How much do you weigh?

>> No.17719888

>Not everyone wants to try to compete with the greats to plant an elbow at the table, and that's fine. They're probably much happier.
This is why you will never be considered an author by anyone other than that website. You accept your mediocrity as if it were normal. Did you even read Homer? Iliad? Crime and punishment? Any classical work? The western canon? Or did you just spend your time reading Manga and watching anime?

>> No.17719916

Are you that shitskin from a few threads ago that was insulting everyone and refusing to show his own work?

>> No.17719917

bro yikes lmao
post your writing

>> No.17719952

I don't know why you would think otherwise based on the actual complete lack of information you have, but you couldn't have missed the mark more. Honest question: have you ever considered the possibility that you aren't telepathic?

>> No.17720003

It's just your standard 4chan solipsism. We all have the power here to twist anything as far as it can go without breaking the rules of our own individual, byzantine systems of internal logic. Any post can be made by anyone you can realistically imagine, and any sequence of words can be made to support the creation of that person; all without any danger of being confronted by the reality of the human being on the other end.

>> No.17720018

You sure? I mean there’s always been a vocal minority who hates anime and anything anime related, I mean just read the first two post >>17718675 and let’s not forget the early days of /wg/.

>> No.17720022

You're too far gone.

>> No.17720036

How am I far gone? I’m just pointing out what’s been happening.

>> No.17720064

What's your daily quota?
Mine's 2k words.

>> No.17720101

Why would I post my writing? So you can just plagiarize and steal my hard work?

>> No.17720104


>> No.17720105

this is too on the nose
is this the living caricature of /lit/?

>> No.17720118

Yeah, damn, this is such a huge issue in these threads, anons steal everything not bolted to the floor.

>> No.17720123

Potential opening to my novel. Looking for feedback:
Sorry, I don’t recall his name. A taller fellow, well-dressed. Not much older than I was. Close enough to be my contemporary—brought up in the same milieu of shadow culture and network governance. He and I, before we ever met, got to see what the 2020s would later be characterized by: the evaporation of nuance and the death of sympathy.
David, that was his name.
I met this man in London during the terror protests some years ago and we had a great conversation. I’d never had a great conversation with someone I just met. But that first afternoon with David, in a touristy pub within eyeshot of Piccadilly Circus, an honest and meaningful conversation sprang up out of nowhere.
Oh, how I wish I could remember his last name! It would probably help you. Because it stood out. I should have noted it. David Something. David… whatever.
He seemed distant from the get go, but he spoke forthrightly and even had a sense of humour. There was something warm but frightening about him, I remember. Something about the way he smiled and sipped his Macallan—he was just a bit too charming.
We talked for three hours in that crowded, noisy pub. And somehow, he changed my mind about something important. After our conversation was over, he walked out into the Circus and disappeared. And I’m sure I’ll never see him again.
I say we were contemporaries, born of the same strangled generation that came of age early in the twenty-first century, less well-equipped to recognize our stations before it was too late to change them. (That’s really all it was: we Millennials could function and thrive, but not before we knew the rules of the game. And our biggest handicap just happened to be poor recognition of the rules of the game). I still don’t understand how David was one of us because he wasn’t like anyone I knew—we were all too neutered to have been like him.
He and I spoke about some of the ugly aspects of our time, of the loathsome characters who rose to the top of the cesspool—of the popular and wealthy people you see dancing in front of cameras while the world peacefully burns down in the background.

>> No.17720133

The main difference between us, if I had to pick something other than his astounding confidence, was the persistence of his optimism. Before then, if I found someone who noticed the things I noticed and lamented the things I lamented, our conversations would inevitably lead to us wallowing with each other and patting each other on the back for recognizing how deranged society had become. And that would be the end of the conversation—we would have succeeded in affirming each other’s misery. With David, though, having made the same types of observations, his reaction was completely unfazed, never even entertaining the idea of personal defeat. There were things which would’ve made someone merely twenty years older than us scowl with disgust and hopelessness—and start whining boorishly about the fantasy of the good old days of 1986. David instead saw the modern world as an exciting challenge… a monster to be harnessed and driven forward.
In our lifetimes, masses of people had been absorbed into the ooze of modern global capitalism. No matter where or to whom you had been born, you were in it, and David thought the greatest sin would be to not find a way to embrace it, to fail to identify clients—consumers who had mostly become quietly desperate, broken people on the verge of some form of junkihood.

>> No.17720171

Anon, I really like this. It’s great, I also want to know more about this David and it’s foreshadowing something almost a little creepy about him.

Only comment is when you say:
> (That’s really all it was: we Millennials could function and thrive, but not before we knew the rules of the game. And our biggest handicap just happened to be poor recognition of the rules of the game)

I would remove “of the game” from the last sentence, might flow a little better. Only part that felt clunky while reading (to me).

>> No.17720206


Seriously speaking, it's competent and sort of interesting. If you want to polish it a little, avoid starting sentences with conjunctions or prepositions (and, with, etc). Normally anons don't know where to put the period, but you have a lot of sentences that might as well be connected as one.

>> No.17720212

I assumed the perspective of a woman, it’s not clear other than the statement that they are contemporaries.

>> No.17720220

good voice, written well
ignore anon. you use the technique effectively and it sells here, though you do overuse it and it gets tiring by the end

>> No.17720289

Thanks for the feedback.
Noted, and thank-you. I've consciously had a very hard time changing certain sentences to not beginning with And, even where a semicolon or em-dash would do. It just doesn't feel right.
>assumed the perspective of a woman
I actually am glad to hear that. Although the excerpt I posted was meant to be from the voice of a male protagonist, I changed the third draft of it to be narrated by a female secondary character investigating/profiling the events surrounding the narrator and the David character...weird. Would you say it gave you the impression of a female narrator because of how it's written, or simply because it is describing a dominant male in positive but somewhat restrained terms?
Thanks for the feedback.

>> No.17720290

500-900 words

>> No.17720296

>you use the technique effectively
>it gets tiring by the end
Then he doesn't use it effectively, genius. It's not a "technique", it's bad form.

>> No.17720305

The voice doesn't sound female to me at all.

>> No.17720351

> because it is describing a dominant male in positive but somewhat restrained terms?

This. It was like the narrator was purposely trying to describe him without implying sexual attraction as the reason for her interest in him.

Also I default to the female perspective when it’s unclear because I’m a female

>> No.17720415

What I intended in this draft was that because David helped change the narrator's mind about something (referred to unspecifically in 4th paragraph), the narrator is undecided, morally, about what he thinks about David's actions (which are to be laid out relatively soon after the excerpt). This first part is meant to show that the issue in question is still somewhat morally ambiguous to him.

>> No.17720460

>autistically describing a man for 3 paragraphs
thought it felt a bit indulgent, just assumed it was some self insert shit

>> No.17720462

>Also I default to the female perspective when it’s unclear because I’m a female
same except im not a girl i just like girls

>> No.17720474

I'm certain it's indulgent and know there's a long way to go on polishing this portion, but do you think this early description of David, who will figure heavily throughout the novel, is too much too fast?

>> No.17720510

nah, it's fine pacing wise. I was hoping there was a reason that the narrator was fawning so hard. It's interesting because I don't know why
the degree to which I was put off wasn't as strong as the degree to which I was interested
if I knew that the narrator was a woman going in I'd assume some romance shlop/coomer shit and not have been interested

but if that's your audience then good job I guess

>> No.17720542

The reason is explained relatively soon after this excerpt...like within 1000-1500 words. My hope is that as we learn what David's business is, and what the narrator was doing just before he met with him in London, the reason for his half-judgment and half-admiration for David is acceptable. Because much of the rest of the first portion of the novel is simply trying to put the two things onto the moral scale to see whether the the near-future society in which it takes place is generally good or generally bad.

>> No.17720621

I already started to picture a dark story where this suave motherfucker David redpills a casual bar acquaintance and tempts him to give up his morality and settle a private problem in less legal ways.

But meh if it's just some bitch lusting after a guy she barely knows

>> No.17720644

It's certainly not the latter.

>> No.17720664

Just because it’s a female doesn’t mean she’s lusting after him. I assumed the female perspective, but the narrator (in my head) was careful in conveying she wasn’t sexually interested in him, but interested in him because he changed her perspective on the issue they had spoken about.

It’s very clear, male or female, that this individual isn’t obsessed with David because they are attracted to him, but because David’s perspective on this issue had a major effect on them.

>> No.17720683

doesn't really sound like how someone would speak, but more like how someone would write. the third paragraph was jarring until i learned it was a female voice, then it made a bit more sense.
it's good, i think. i'm just not used to the voice. where is the narrator from?

>> No.17720723

Thanks. I wasn’t expecting that much help around here, but you proved me wrong. I’ll screenshot your criticism and apply what is reasonable.

Was it readable? Did you lose attention somewhere?

>> No.17720749

Thanks for the encouragement, anon.
What are the weebs doing that’s so hot?

>> No.17720770

autistically grinding because they actually have fun writing

>> No.17720815

It's not meant to be a female voice.
But yes, it is much more how someone writes, rather than speaks. I just read it out loud and it is a bit uneven from that view. But I don't think that ruins it per se...it's a guy narrating, not necessarily in real-time or directly to a person.

>> No.17720837

It was readable, I understood your intentions. Biggest improvement would be adding more world building as you drag robot Girl along to the next destination.

I also think you need to refine your voice a little and work on clarifying how your two characters are intended to be perceived by the reader. As mentioned before, I can’t tell how you want me to perceive the Bargainer.

My attention was lost at the spider scene. I’d work on improving the action sequences, maybe try and start by over describing them then edit them down. As they are there just isn’t enough description to clearly visualize the actions.

>> No.17720844

>not necessarily in real-time or directly to a person.
alright, this makes much more sense. the first sentence made it seem like a conversation. it's competent.

>> No.17720886
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Why does it seem like people enjoy my grounded realism type writing more than when I use science fiction conventions? Maybe it’s that my writing has improved over time. It could be simply the frame of mind while writing. Maybe there’s just a particular way I’m better at telling an interesting story. I’m not really sure. I feel like my dull writing style is the one I can really knock words out by the thousands, while the more tailored and unique voice is a struggle to squeak a few hundred out before the gag is done and the story is finished. I assume it ties back to my normal speaking voice and how I’m generally mildly amusing but never one to give a punchline.

Here was the most recent thing from last thread. Feedback of any kind would be appreciated. I feel lost.

>> No.17720897

Then they must be doing something better than all of us. Thanks for awnsering, anon.

>> No.17720915

What a shame, I always thought the action scenes were the best part.

So, what was, then? What aspect am I strongest at?

>> No.17720925

I wouldn’t call this piece dull, it’s pretty funny. It sounds like a rant my cousin would spit out immediately after taking an adderall.

The voice feels familiar though, I can’t place it, but I feel like I’ve read something of similar style before.

>> No.17720970

The opening scene at the cinema was good, I felt like you really had a clear voice and world in that moment. The transition after the capture was where things start to weaken.

You gave me several reasons to keep reading in a short number of paragraphs - who was Mr. Komodo and why hasn’t he fixed the power? What happened 200 years ago that would result in the power outage and, if it was just the cinema shutting down, why did they leave the (likely valuable) robot behind? What’s the significance of the spear weapon? Where did the Bargainer come from and why was he carrying a Chinese (?) weapon?

I liked the perspective of the Girl, it was very cute, but then we lose her after the transition. She wants to return to the theatre but that motivation could be played up a little more, she all too easily starts supporting the Bargainer during the spider fight.

>> No.17721024

So it’s the mystery building that’s good? Interesting.

>> No.17721035

My talk of dull writing would be some of the earlier bits I posted on RR about the pizza delivery guy and such. The stories that are third person and have a character doing things sequentially. Maybe my brain is too stuck in cinema style of story telling and that's why it's like pulling teeth when writing those kind of action bits. This story was far more on a whim, written as if I was admitting something to a friend as opposed to a real 'novel writing' mindset. The little chapters about going to the gas station or the business emails are so different in tone compared to the 'adventure' bits. And the writing felt completely different too.
> It sounds like a rant my cousin would spit out immediately after taking an adderall.
I've had my fair share of experiences with the type. It does kinda sound like that, doesn't it?
>The voice feels familiar though, I can’t place it, but I feel like I’ve read something of similar style before.
I finished reading infinite jest recently, so I'd assume that would be the biggest subconscious influence. I do love the meme of the guy at the gas station and the prose style that anon wrote in.

>> No.17721070

That’s been in the OP since at least October anon

>> No.17721085

No, this OP added:
>Share your work
>>Royal Road
The URL for RR has been in the OP since October under Other Resources. Now the OP has RR mentioned twice, still with no authors of books or additional resources.

>> No.17721088

Why would I read this? Who are you? Why do your thoughts matter enough for me to read them instead of an actual professional? Write fiction my dude!

Cringe. You will never be Japanese granny.

You drag on and on. Only put stuff relevant for the plot! The first couple paragraphs could have been skipped entirely. The conversation was so generic I stopped reading. Try to actually be interesting.

The start was great! I was intrigued by the mystery implied through the setting. Then it became a boring generic post apocalyptic world with cannibalism and scarcity. Is there a point to your story? What's the purpose?

I read the entire thing. The start was intriguing purely because of the incredibly original setting, but then I didn't see the point of the dialogues. What's the point of the story? I can't tell. I don't care about the MCs because they're aimless. It doesn't matter that there's tension because of the history and politics if there's no point or goal.

Was fine until tentacles part that felt goofy

I like this, but it doesn't matter by itself. We need more to evaluate.

I expected details about their ideas but got over descriptions on stuff that didn't seem to matter. All I understood was that they're boomers and the story is set in the future.

Chapter 14 was dope. I hate short stories though and hope you write a novel.

>> No.17721091

Thanks again, anon.
Are you by chance a woman? Was it easier to identify with the girl?

>> No.17721092

factually incorrect

>> No.17721109

>Chapter 14 was dope. I hate short stories though and hope you write a novel.
Thanks, anon. The one novel I was trying to write sits at 15k words and every time I open it I get overwhelmed by timelines and characters. I really should sit down some time, get over myself, and just bulldoze the prep for it.

>> No.17721115

Your posts are a great example of why all criticism can’t be taken to heart. You clearly favor a certain kind of book that not everyone writes. Which is fine

>> No.17721124

Don't be too hard, this is more or less the only completed short story I have as I am a lazy fuck who doesn't deserve to live

>> No.17721129

I'm interested in writing nonfiction (philosophy), but I have a problem with being too concise. I do very well in school, but that doesn't really reflect much. I often find that when write a paper I am able to summarize everything I want to say In under 200 words. Any tips for writing long-form nonfiction without adding fluff or endless redundant examples?

>> No.17721139
File: 667 KB, 1242x2208, 6107B308-684C-4973-826F-61B348721F7B.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Then I guess I should’ve posted these too.

>> No.17721141

I wonder what wonderful ideas you can express in 200 words. Let's see something.

>> No.17721147
File: 697 KB, 1242x2208, C72EEFEC-800D-4C5F-859F-21A936F2F70A.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17721158
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>> No.17721166
File: 702 KB, 1242x2208, D41FEE37-591A-457C-99C3-105DD37AAB82.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Last one.

>> No.17721193

I dislike you greatly and hope no one you replied to takes you seriously.

>> No.17721201

Well, I wouldn't consider the ideas I express in my writing wonderful. If anything, my writing is hurt by how concise I am. I always feel as though my writing is very sry and barebones. Hard to really tell for sure though, since all my classes cater to brainless and thus don't really give me a challenge. in any case, here's an excerpt of some writing I did for school.

>Utilitarian hedonism is equally untenable. Though it recognizes the existence and necessity of an objective good; it is misguided in regards to what exactly that good is. Bentham fails to recognize that humans find intrinsic value in many things outside of pleasure. Justice, authentic experience, human life, wisdom, and many more virtues are valued not for the utility they provide but for their own sake. By reducing goodness to just one metric, Bentham allows for a system that not only permits but encourages evil in certain circumstances. For an example of this, imagine that earth was visited by an advanced alien race. These aliens promise to solve all of humanity's material woes. No one will go hungry, live without shelter, or die of disease ever again. In fact, everyone will enjoy an incredibly high standard of living for as long as humanity exists However, these aliens will only help humanity under one condition: every year, one in every ten million people are randomly selected to be beamed up into the alien mothership. Here, they will be subject to slow, excruciating deaths by torture for the amusement of the aliens. Any objective analysis of the situation from a utilitarian perspective would require us to take the aliens up on their offer. However, it is clearly immoral to allow for the torture of an innocent minority for the sake of the prosperity of a majority. This begs the question of how a definition of the good can logically lead to such blatant atrocities. But we need not look to the moral failure of utilitarianism to demonstrate how it is not a worthwhile theory of the good. Robert Nozick, in his book "Anarchy, State, and Utopia" puts forth a refutation of hedonism in the form of a thought experiment called the experience machine. Imagine you were presented with the opportunity to be plugged into a machine that would simulate a false reality of pure pleasure for you. Once plugged in, you would never be able to leave, but you would also be unable to tell that you were not actually experiencing reality. Under a hedonistic theory of the good, there is no reason not to plug in. However, the majority of people still choose not to do so. These results suggested to Nozick that human beings value things other than pleasure, such as having authentic experiences.

For context, we were asked to evaluate multiple theories of 'the good', this if for a discussion post and is not a formal essay.

>> No.17721202

Being concise is for twitter and texting. The point of having the freedom to write long form is that you aren't restricted by character limit. Your one way communication with the audience is however long you wish to write it and however long they wish to read it. The medium is the message, anon. Being able to dutifully articulate and detail out every facet of your argument, with every drawn out example and every end or footnote aside is all part of writing non-fiction. Brevity is the soul of wit, but the goal of long form non fiction is wisdom. Go look at literally any non-fiction book you own. Go deconstruct what each paragraph of a given section is doing, how do those building blocks all come together to prove the points the author wants to make? Why is Capital Vol 1 nearly 1000 pages while meditations on philosophy is only about 60?

>> No.17721253
File: 94 KB, 547x743, 986678DA-77B9-4006-A812-C5E08D66B336.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I tried writing a book for kids and young teens. How is it?


>> No.17721284

>All I understood was that they're boomers...
Hmm...don't see how that would come across.
>...and the story is set in the future.
This is excellent news, because it is.

>> No.17721299
File: 2 KB, 53x54, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>google docs
>‘Twas a fortnight ago
but seriously, i think you pulled off the voice quite well. comma splices were rampant. descriptions are somewhat okay but they were repetitive and telling-y. for example
>There was no light coming from my chamber window. This was odd, as the street lights always emitted, although a dim, light through the thin glass, illuminating my work table. Not even the moon shone on the black sky. I neared the candelabrum to the window in an effort to see something, but to no avail.
these are saying the same thing. if you don't want to cut some out, find another way to describe the room other than attaching them to the same description: darkness. then again, it might just be what you were aiming for.
why didn't he take the candelabra with him? if he did, this line made it sound as if he didn't
>using naught but my memory of the house as my guide.
turns out he did bring the candle.
grammar errors such as
>designed in a strange fashion and in a place that I surely didn’t build it.

>My breath had become maniacal, sweat poured out of every pore, terror struck right at my heart which was beating profoundly.

>gazing deep into my soul.

>My heart's beat echoed in my own ears.
this is the xth time you described the heart. change it up a bit. blood pulsed, vision blurred, hands trembling, breath shortening, etc.

>The sound of the people going out to the market square through the concrete street passing my house, killed the very melancholy.
rewrite this sentence

it's not as shit as you made out to be, you dramatic faggot. i actually enjoyed it, errors aside. it might even be acceptable after a few rounds of editing. good luck.

post your writing. i want see if we should take your crit seriously. right now you sound like an 18 year old who has no idea what he's talking about, my dude (!!!)

>> No.17721310

also, use pastebin next time.

>> No.17721320

Not him, but it doesn’t take a 5 star chef to know when something tastes bad.

>> No.17721330

that's true, but the point still stands

>> No.17721341

Thanks for the advice anon, I'll try that.

>> No.17721346

It's engaging and well-paced. But it's riddled with cliches in my opinion. You could dwell less on the ticking clock and the again phantoms. Give the reader a bit of credit--we know you're talking about time and regret.

>> No.17721347

It's been sitting "on the shelf" for quite some time and I just didn't bother rewriting or editing it in any way, only touched it up a bit a few months ago for sending it to my professor, I am really losing hope in my writing but thanks anon you made my day better :)

>> No.17721368

Yes and yes.

Can I ask how you intended the Bargainer to be characterized? Is he supposed to be a Han Solo scruffy (and a little clueless, like when your man asks what a firearm is) type rogue?

>> No.17721370

I wrote it when I was 17 and I am almost 20 now, I scribbled some shit here and there, mostly poetry, but for some reason I have been hitting these insane road blocks in both inspiration and ideas, committed myself to reading more to expand my knowledge at least somewhat, I will try to edit it I just needed some good constructive thoughts on it. Also, thanks :)

>> No.17721374
File: 108 KB, 553x720, peachcage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What sets apart engaging quest goals from uncompelling ones?

>> No.17721377

that one short story is the only thing you've written for months? and it's because it's an assignment?
get off your ass and get writing. how else are you going to grow.

>> No.17721384

very close to finishing my second chapbook. only two poems need to be heavily reworked and two more need slight revisions. overall, it's not amazing, but i've been working on this for at least two years and i've already started working on my next chapbook, so i just wanna get it over with already.

>> No.17721395

Run run away as fast as you can.
Run run away from the Architect man.
Don’t let him catch you, no matter what.
Or he’ll fatten you up whether you like it or not.

He’ll use a hose, his favourite object.
And turn you into his latest project.
He’ll make you fatter, big and round.
Till you can’t get off the ground.

He’ll feed you butter, cream and lard.
This makes his erection hard.
Calories in but never out.
You’ll be a pig without a snout.

They say he used to play an agent.
Now fattening girls is his one engagement.
Some folk say he’s just high test.
But in his work he’ll never rest.

Run, run away as fast as you can.
Run, run away from the Architect man.
Don’t let him catch you, no matter what.
Or he’ll fatten you up whether you like it or not.

>> No.17721400

I recently completed my 1st novel. It's a comedy focused on kids in high school having wacky adventures.

>> No.17721405

what the fuck

>> No.17721412

Why would you put a navy blue font over a green background? Anon, please. Why would you do this.

>> No.17721420

'Salways worth it to pay for professional cover design

>> No.17721437

Yeah he is. A conniving business-minded rogue.

He doesn’t know what a firearm is because it’s implied that firearms were violently outlawed years ago. These robot spiders are the futuristic equivalent of drones today. “Rebels” were essentially gun owners who refused government mandate.

>> No.17721451

Welp. Seems like /co/'s webcomic thread is finally dead. Can I set up camp here?

>> No.17721460

Well I hope you post more of it, I’m interested. Thanks, anon.

>> No.17721472

You should commission an artist for the cover. I was turned off immediately by the cover art alone.

>> No.17721474

Read more short stories of the style you're writing. Definitely have the voice and a nice flow of language in it.

>> No.17721480

Sure. There was a dude that came in hyped up on 'drines or something a few months back, bust in on everyone about script writing and now he's gone. An injection of comic writing might be neat. What resources does their sticky provide?

>> No.17721483


>> No.17721494

Reddit told you to use this as your cover?

>> No.17721497
File: 1.25 MB, 1078x1666, 3ec401d3b9f3bba1b24955e5567395a80c5e0b006548f9422af7d51b8f7263ba.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

He's memeing. Is this your actual first day on this site?

>> No.17721504

Why did you delete your other comment bro?
The cover is awful and anyone, upon seeing it, would assume the author was retarded and his book not worth reading. Try again

>> No.17721505

I was writing a story for a contest with a hard page limit. I thought I was doing fine when I realized that they wanted an interlining of 1.5 and lettering in 12 size, and so my introduction now takes up half of the allowed size. I'm pretty dejected by this. Should I continue as I intended and then edit it down to remove the extra stuff, or should I scrap it and go back to the drawing board?

>> No.17721507

Graphic design isn't reddit. We literally have
Are you fucking kidding me? In the modern commodified world your message won't be seen unless it's appealing in some sense, at minimum LEDGEABLE. I'd like to read the fucking title to his book without having a stroke. His picture would work fine if he knew some basics of graphic design. Personally I'd left align the title and find a better more whiteish color, maybe give it a heavy draw line of another color, maybe a translucent backing square if I was being real lazy, right justify his name and make it line up in the side walk so that it complements the title. These aren't hard things but the guy just didn't give a fuck and slapped his book together. One of those 'the words are more important and the world will truly know my message if they just give it a chance' without having, themselves, given a thought as to why they are publishing on a platform like amazon in the first place. It's a load of hypocritical shit disguising itself in artistic merit and pride and we all know that's absolute bullshit.

>> No.17721510

I'll post the last OP. I'm not including the contact sheet because I don't think it's too relevant to this thread.


People: https://deviantart.com/senshistock/gallery/
Scenery: https://www.shutterstock.com/
Character Design: https://www.pinterest.com/characterdesigh/

Blambot: https://www.blambot.com/
Create your own: https://www.calligraphr.com/en/
CC Wild Words: https://cofonts.com/cc-wild-words-roman-font/

Easy to use tumblr webcomic theme: https://www.tumblr.com/theme/39018
Dos and Don'ts for starting a site: https://pastebin.com/raw/kNR2W5mV
Promoting your comic: https://miss-melee.tumblr.com/post/143483233951/a-guide-to-zero-cost-webcomic-promotion



CSP: https://mega.nz/#F!5xlV2IzJ!bg8BZB-oYaVrmD31S3fJHw

>> No.17721532

Calm down

>> No.17721547

b-but graphics

>> No.17721553

>what is the rule as to why this goes into commas? (for future reference)
it just sounded better

>>most of these don't seem like that great a way to save money and they're all so middle-of-the-road (still using salt, but just slightly less)
>au contraire, they're the most believable part of the story. I don't think you've ever actually had to scrimp, have you?
Went a few months on not much besides ramen, which I certainly didn't salt, though it's true I've never scrimped with a family under my wing. Using detergent as shampoo would probably be less appreciated in that context.

>> No.17721576

I'm perfectly aware that the world is filled with NPC's who think having a pretty cover made by a third party is an indication of literary talent. I hoped /lit/ was one of the places I could find people with an IQ in triple digits who knew that such a belief is fucking ridiculous. Apparently, on this, I was wrong.

>> No.17721584


>> No.17721585

look man all im saying is that i was having a pretty great day, and now my eyes hurt real bad

>> No.17721588

Oh so when I said
>One of those 'the words are more important and the world will truly know my message if they just give it a chance' without having, themselves, given a thought as to why they are publishing on a platform like amazon in the first place. It's a load of hypocritical shit disguising itself in artistic merit and pride and we all know that's absolute bullshit.
I was spot on. Neat.

>> No.17721592


>> No.17721595

It’s not about the content at this stage, it’s about effective marketing. You are shooting yourself in the foot with a crappy cover.

>> No.17721602

if you want people to respect your work and check it out you have to respect it and make it presentable

>> No.17721625


>> No.17721637

I've started aiming for 10k recently.

>> No.17721651

This is F Gardner bullshit all over again. Do you have the budget he did to meme your book? I presumed you didn't hire an editor either (he didn't) or a graphic designer (he didn't), but look people pretend to be him as a white supremacist now on /lit/ its super funny. You could be the next him because it seems like you don't actually give much a shit about any part of the process.

>> No.17721658

I have two things that each have the same namesake.

>each their namesakes
>each their namesake

First one is correct?

>> No.17721670

key phrase in the below post is:
>at this stage
...meaning at the stage who doesn't know you, knows very little about the story, and obviously isn't sure what exactly they're looking for, the cover is the all they have to push them either towards buying or away from buying.
I don't think the other anons criticizing the cover were doing so maliciously.

>> No.17721687

Need more context. They are both named after the same person. Is the sentence referring to the namesake or to the characters' namesakes?

>> No.17721690

>I don't think the other anons criticizing the cover were doing so maliciously
I always 90% of everything said on this website is trolling bullshit

>> No.17721710

For example:

>Bob and Bob, each their namesakes the great Bob, were...

>> No.17721716

The only way you'll ever know is if you buy the book and read it. Otherwise you're just shouting online about a topic you know nothing about.

>> No.17721747

I'm only being a jerk about it because I want to see other writers in these threads succeed. A cover like that is destined for failure.

>> No.17721783

i want everyone else to fail so i have a higher chance to succeed
keep the cover

>> No.17721785

>terrible cover
>functionally no blurb
I don't understand how some people can go through all the trouble of sitting there for a few weeks to crank out a novel and then give absolutely zero thought to how they might entice people to read it.

>> No.17721813

>just buy the book with the shitty cover
>surely this is not a massive red flag

>> No.17721825

>then give absolutely zero thought to how they might entice people to read it.
I've been thinking about this nonstop for weeks. "Tell /lit" was one of the ideas I came up with. Loving every minute of my decision.

>> No.17721842

You'll be like the first man who ever ate an oyster

>> No.17721934

Hauntingly beautiful

>> No.17721954

It wasn't because of an assignment, and it isn't the only thing I wrote it's just the only thing I've completed in the sense that it is a complete story from start to finish. I write mostly poetry lately but even that has been lacking for months, I certainly need to read more, for now at least.

>> No.17722089

How do I build enthusiasm for my own work? I don't care a whole lot for my characters or their world so I don't see why anyone else should, and I'm sure this lack of passion would be the first thing anyone would notice.

>but just write about stuff you're passionate about
This is already as much as I could muster from nothing, I'm generally satisfied with what I have but I feel like I'm missing something that would drive me to really want to tell this story.

>but just write about stories and characters similar to existing ones you like
I can't, existing stories I like aren't in any way similar to what I want to write about.

>> No.17722117

What are you writing right now? What style?
Maybe your theme isn't dramatic enough?
Kill one of your characters and see what happens?

>> No.17722136

>what I want to write about.
What makes you want to write about it? What truth are you trying to relay? What feeling are you trying to articulate? What is your actual goal for writing? Everything else you said conflicts with the very last sentence you wrote because at some level, you want to do this, I think you just need to think and meditate on why that is a bit more. Solidify and articulate that point.

>> No.17722138

It worries me when something I spend hours writing gets no response. if that can hurt me, what will I feel when a book I spent years on gets the same reaction

>> No.17722154

>has nothing he cares to say
>thinks he wants to write
you clearly dont want to write
you want to be a writer
aestheticfags get out

>> No.17722162

I think there’s a distinction between the act of creation and the subsequent hearing of a message. Do you find the act of writing fun, in itself? Or are all your brain functions wired in such a way that you only find satisfaction in the reactions of your readers?

>> No.17722163

>What are the weebs doing that’s so hot?
Writing. Something that’s rare in /wg/.

>> No.17722164

Critique mine
And I’ll critique yours

>> No.17722201

creating an idea is rewarding. committing it to writing is work that only pays off if I get a good reaction

>> No.17722204

Where have you been? This shit is the norm around here.

>> No.17722244

I would rephrase it because that middle clause is clunky with the word "of":
>Bob and Bob, sharing The Great Bob as their namesake, were...
>Bob and Bob, their namesake The Great Bob, were
In that context, however you formulate the sentence, I think namesake ought to be singular because The Great Bob is the namesake.

>> No.17722271

But the criticism in this instance is valid.
...all the poets lurking in this thread just uttered a reverent "fuck"

>> No.17722282

>But the criticism in this instance is valid
Some anons here don’t like the criticism they receive.

>> No.17722287


>> No.17722322

>figure out exactly how a transitionary chapter needs to go
Feels like I just jacked off

>> No.17722343

>...all the poets lurking in this thread just uttered a reverent "fuck
Don’t they have their own separate poetry thread?

>> No.17722387

I'm having one of those days in which all the work I've done feels pointless. Editing this shit is going to be tough.

>> No.17722497

I've been listening to some videos on how to write villains and they say to make them a polar thematic opposite to the hero.
This makes a lot of sense to me but is it okay to just pit different antagonists against the protagonist to fit his current theme? Can you apply this to an organization or you have to at least put one character at the seat for it to work?

>> No.17722501

De-stress by taking a shit in a plastic bag, then in your garden you smash it to bits with a sledgehammer

>> No.17722545

Fantasy fiction adventure for kids and teens, with a focus on mystery, the world, and adventure because I always felt the worlds in such stories were afterthoughts, and the adventure was always sidetracked or stuck somewhere rather than being what you imagine when you think of a journey.

The main theme is the protagonists uncovering the nature of their world, while they do get maimed a bit and lose each other eventually, I feel like death doesn't fit the mood I'm going for. I'd prefer if the drama came from the world and reveals about it.

I always wanted to see something like it but couldn't find anyone doing it. I've thought about the truth/message aspect a lot but I feel like years of cynicism and depression burnt out all enthusiasm I had about communicating serious or important ideas to other people. I'm better now but I still feel like putting important themes in my work would come off as pretentious or preachy, but I do have some usual stuff about surrogate families and cost of technological progress in there, I'd just much rather want to instill a sense of exploration and mystery than start a serious discussion.

Can't say you're wrong, I have half a mind to just make it into a comic so the visuals can prop up the overarching narrative so it doesn't have to rely on writing.

>> No.17722550

Well you can have 'the dragon' and then the real boss. That's a classic multi villain dynamic.
Darth Vader is a dragon and the main face of villainy in star wars, but he reports to the mostly hidden emperor who is the real number 1.
The emperor is an elderly political figure, which allows for a dragon character to actually strut into view and get his hands dirty, while still being a very important shot caller.

>> No.17722645

>Fantasy fiction adventure for kids and teens
This is like the opposite of what I expected you to say based on your first post.
If you want to reveal lore about your world, what would stop you from incorporating that?
One of your characters is maimed you say, so... he has lots of time to read the tomes of a library in a large house?
Magic is always a Swiss army knife for doing whatever you want in those types of stories, just fuck shit up man.

>> No.17722680

Thanks for the genuine laugh, anon.

>> No.17722689

I have a similar dynamic for a pair of villains already. The dragon in this case works from the shadows as to prevent the boss from damaging his own image as a stoic, honorable warrior wronged by his old master.
The thing is that the protagonist starts out working under the boss and believes in him so the antagonist at the beginning would be my setting's law enforcement. I think I have a character lying around I could use as the head of the police and work as that first main antagonist but there's very little reason to make him step in directly at that time. That's why I was wondering if that could pin that onto an organization.

>> No.17722750

>Can't say you're wrong, I have half a mind to just make it into a comic
It will still take effort to rewrite it into a comic script format with panel layout and art instructions etc.
Do you have experience with comics and artwork? That stuff is no joke M8.

>> No.17722957

I only read the prologue, I think the opening could be good with someone being rescued from a sacrifice, to draw you in. I know it's for kids, but couldn't you weave some aspects into the story more seamlessly, for example calling her an "evil witch", I think most kids could determine that she was a baddy on their own or having it narrated that your cheif is scared of the cult, rather than showing that. We're already told he's strong, so if he (a strong guy) is being subservient it'll indicate to us the cult's power. Some of the lines are a bit strange as well, "In the shadows of the forest was one light and surrounding that light was a grove where a stone altar awaited". Try leading it alloud, I think you'll understand. Otherwise, nice start.

>> No.17723156

>is this the living caricature of /lit/
This shit us been going on for a while, on /wg/.

>> No.17723189

I’ll assume this is you? Thanks for the critique by the way.
Show me your book

>> No.17723221

It's not me. I just say you had no (yous)

>> No.17723222

>Polar opposite to the hero
If your antagonist is an ice mage because the hero studies fire, just remove that antagonist, Or replace it with another limitation for hero's magic.
An antagonist opposes the hero, but he's also a living being with his own goals and reasons to be.

>> No.17723236

You're welcome. You already got the same criticism from me that you got yesterday. Anyway, chapter 1 was boring, but the style of chapter 14 was really fun. Remember that you need a point to your story if you're doing a novel.

Fair. But I'm being honest. After reading for quite some time I realized that being boring is actually completely avoidable and also a main reason I couldn't get into it. Sure, there's books like crime and punishment that are boring for the majority of the time and are top tier literature, but I'm confident that said example could've been far better if it was less boring. Also, the average reader thinks like me.

Didn't fix the issue I mentioned. Also, from "he smirked" onwards, it's 8th grade level writing. Please improve that.
Also, the characters do not feel like they exist in their time. They aren't immersive enough.

Enjoy never being picked up because of your boring "intellectual" writing.

They miss the 80s and hate technology... either expend their ideological perspective or show more sides of them (not "he's more optimistic than me" stuff)

I'm 25 and I suck at writing. I can only tell what I like and what I don't. I enjoy taking on this personality when reviewing cause it's both fun and more direct.

No it doesn't

If they serve a purpose to your story. If they could've been cut without an impact on the story, then they're not engaging or interesting.

Hire an artist on fiverr

I heard this many times, but I disagree. Antagonists are mainly obstacles. Sure, the more compelling antagonists contrast the protagonist, but it's not necessary

>> No.17723314

I want to re-emphasize the thematic part of the sentences because that's what I was more concerned about.
I've never done this shit of "villain is literally just the MC but he wears black" or "they are literally the same person but the bad guy had the bad childhood and the MC had the bad childhood with friends" because I've never thought it was compelling either.

>> No.17723354


Also starting porting it over to Scribblehub slowly since I figured it was about time. It'll catch up 2 chaps a day until April 9th if the chapter count feels overwhelming.

>> No.17723358

Well, basically, the point is that antagonists shouldn't be wrenched into the story for metareasons, or because ` this piece will complete the puzzle made from character profiles` blind devotion to narrative.

>> No.17723375

Unless a meta idea is the backbone for the story, but interpreting it into a regular story structure is tricky, so nobody else to blame.

>> No.17723393 [DELETED] 
File: 628 KB, 1080x1346, Screenshot_20210307-174139_Notepad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I'm not well versed in the standards and history of poetry or spefici types of verse and structures and usually I just write down stuff I think of that rhymes, try to turn it into a poem and then delete it.

Been trying to actually practice more lately and keep my stuff and put more thought into it. I did this as brain practice for alliteration.

Do I have any speck of talent or should I just keep this shit to myself forever?

>> No.17723430

Did you not learn anything. You’ll never be a writer.

>> No.17723465
File: 14 KB, 352x341, 1496795450960.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I was supposed to learn something? What was I supposed to learn? How does one become a writer even after 240k words?

>> No.17723469

>TOTAL VIEWS : 27,503
>PAGES : 876
Anon, it looks like LoGH anon does write. I don't understand your hate. Shouldn't we be hoping everyone in the thread have some form success? Why are you so mad on a Japanese anime imageboard?

>> No.17723481

>Shouldn't we be hoping everyone in the thread have some form success?
Yes, in a traditional publishing. Not in self-publishing. Because it weakens traditional and open the floodgates for the undesirable to writes.

>> No.17723490
File: 381 KB, 1469x942, BZZDKxhB6.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

They're both equally memes. I think you need to stop romanticizing trad so much.

>> No.17723496
File: 1.72 MB, 2000x1600, 1613100984900.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

If we only focused on trad publishing in these threads no one would ever post their work and no one would ever be able to share in their success. This is the stupidest shit to gatekeep and project onto animeposters. Do you think it's like 1957 still? I assume you hate the idea of 4chan and the internet too? Like, you'd prefer to write letters and loiter at coffee shops all day? What are the thresholds to your madness?

>> No.17723523 [DELETED] 

>Like, you'd prefer to write letters and loiter at coffee shops all day?
Writing letters allows you to keep up with your penmanship and loitering around cafe shops let’s you experience what the great authors of old experience in their day.

>> No.17723539

>Like, you'd prefer to write letters and loiter at coffee shops all day?
Writing letters allows you to keep up with your penmanship and loitering around cafe shops let’s you experience what the great authors of old experience in their day. But you would never know that since all you do is play pretend.

>> No.17723548

i dont know i shitpost a lot and that's pretty much the modern equivalent of writing old timey letters and what not i think.

>> No.17723555

I take notes by hand sometimes and I've spent more than enough time in my life at bars and coffee shops. Why are you so bitter and jaded anon? Too many rejection letters on your Turner Diaries 2.0?

>> No.17723680

>I'm 25 and I suck at writing.
Then don't act as though your "critiques" hold any value and stop posting them.

>> No.17723709

Does it not help to make the story work better, though? Because from the sound of it, that helped the movies the guys were analyzing.
I have no intention of forcing it but I think I have the pieces to pull it out but not a good plan of what to move.

>> No.17723726

>Does it not help to make the story work better, though?
Depends. Writing is an art, not a science.

>Because from the sound of it, that helped the movies the guys were analyzing
Such as?

>> No.17723739

Dark Knight; as always, Silence of the Lambs, and Seven.

>> No.17723753

In those movies the antagonist is like whole point of the film and what people remember about it more than the heroes

>> No.17723768

Can't there be a balance, though?

>> No.17723774

I didn't watch Seven

Well? Can you analyse the antagonists in Dark Knight and Silence of the Lambs, and how they fit in your idea of how antagonists should be written?

>> No.17723853

>Turner Diaries 2.0?
How about you stop projecting.

>> No.17723868

Thanks anyway

>> No.17723890

>Taking this troll seriously

>> No.17723894

Anon, you do know there are people here with that mindset right? This is the first time something like this happened.

>> No.17723901

*This isn't

>> No.17723912

>Taking deluded people seriously
You only have yourself to blame.
If you mean to seriously correct him, I commend you, but you’re going to spend a lot of effort and stress to do it.

>> No.17723936

Zer guy here, thanks for the critique.

>> No.17723959

I don't have a "should" except for theme, which I try to adjust as organically as possible as to not force it.
Knowing Nolan, he intended for the Joker to embody the idea of chaos and that one was served for him to treat it as an order vs chaos dichotomy from the beginning. It's been a while since I watched Silence of the Lambs but I remember how Hannibal challenged the notion that Clarisse, being a cop, was in control just with the way he conducted himself when they talked about Discord Bill.

I'm being very brief but what I can take from each is that for the Joker, having an antagonist on the opposite end of the protagonist but with a resolve that's just as strong can show on one side how far the protagonist can be pushed before he gives in or he breaks his principles to win and on another how both sides of the discussion can show themselves in the world through the actions of both characters. Like how Dent can be an inspiration for Gotham thanks to Batman's actions and how he stops due to the Joker's actions.
With Hannibal you have this feeling that Clarisse is arguably more in danger when she is out of the field and interrogating him than when she is chasing after a serial killer at large but Hannibal doesn't do anything to her; either because he genuinely likes her as he claims or because he can't attack her due to the plexiglass cell. At the end, it's proven that she was and wasn't really in danger but that he was truly always in control this whole time when he escapes from prison and calls her phone as if it was nothing.

Both of them are as different from their respective protagonists as you could be but at the same time they have this neat thematic relationship with that's not explained to you with apples and shit. Though Joker kind of does that a couple of times so... but it doesn't interfere, I believe because of the delivery. You can tell Joker is convinced of his ideas and his drive is actually taking as many as he can to his side so it fits.

>> No.17723962

I’ll review Chapter 0 if you review my story, anon.

>> No.17723972

How is that site compared to Royal Road?

>> No.17724012

GOD I LOVE GETTING POSITIVE REVIEWS. It's sweeter than cocaine, I tell you.

>> No.17724043
File: 91 KB, 427x427, despairwojak.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I find that I do most of my writing past midnight, when I'm extremely tired. Sometimes I have legitimate trouble with overcoming this fear of writing, it's as if someone is constantly judging every word that is being put on the document. But during nightime I must be so exhausted that my autism can't interfere. Does anybody else here experience something similar?

>> No.17724091

>I must be so exhausted that my autism can't interfere
Yes, this has gotten stronger over the years. I've gotten so aware of every textual habit from writing and editing my own stuff that it's hard for me to write unless I'm very tired or more commonly drinking alcohol. If I try to write sober, I can write two sentences and see where it's going to lead and then the specific way I'm going to need to edit it and I try to think about how I can alter things to feel fresh so that the feeling of inspiration appears in my work and suddenly it has been ten minutes and I'm having an existential crisis over why I overanalyze every aspect of my writing and wondering if I'm finally at the point I'm never going to write again.
If I drink booze, I start writing and it just flows out, like it did when I was in my early 20s. If I'm physically exhausted, either from hiking or lifting, I can also achieve the same carefree mindset. Do whatever works for you, anon.

>> No.17724092

Post your story, anon.

>> No.17724096

i would never post my story somewhere like here. i can't imagine how bad it would bring down my high if someone intelligent saw what i wrote.

>> No.17724109

Not quite yet, I'm still writing the next chapter and I do not want to split my attention. About 50% done I'd reckon.

>> No.17724114

>how both sides of the discussion can show themselves in the world through the actions of both characters
...what discussion?

> Dent can be an inspiration for Gotham thanks to Batman's actions and how he stops due to the Joker's actions
I think you misunderstand Dent here. Dent is a failed Batman, he's the warning of what Batman could have become, had he not passed the Joker test and kept his principles intact.

>At the end, it's proven that she was and wasn't really in danger but that he was truly always in control this whole time when he escapes from prison and calls her phone as if it was nothing
I do not see that it proves anything at all. Besides, that doesn't explain Hannibal at all. You're descibing events, but not explaining what they mean.

Here's my take...

Neither Joker nor Hannibal are thematic opposites of the protagonist. They're thematic opposites of the secondary antagonists. Joker unlike the mob, is deadly, unpredictable and effective. Hannibal unlike Buffalo Bill, is clever and threatens Clarice's personal safety. Both Joker and Hannibal are made to seem like secondary antagonists, appearing to impede the main objectives of the hero - defeating the mob and catching Buffalo Bill - but they're actually the main villains of the story. They challenge the hero by taking him/her by surprise, effectively attacking where it hurts, outsmarting the hero, and eventually nearly winning.

So to go back to your original question, these antagonists are effective, but they're not really thematic opposites of the hero. They have just as many similarities to the hero as they have dissimilarities - Joker is an unknown, chaotic and disruptive force just like Batman is to the mob; Hannibal is clever just like Clarice. (In the novel the psychological backgrounds of Hannibal and Clarice are much better portrayed than in the movie.)

Hence no, effective antagonists need not always be designed as "thematic opposites" of the protagonist.

>> No.17724135

well written first chapter, it was interesting and immersive from start to finish. I would read it if I were to get something from it. I'd rather read Dostoyevsky for now though. Also, I want to start and finish war and peace.

I'm not sure why you seek validation here when you basically made it. Ask for support from your fans.
move on with the times old man. Traditional publishing only limits what you can produce and they are slowing down creativity.
I personally thought it was somewhat generic, but it fits for kids and teenagers. However, I think you should dumb down the writing a bit for your audience.

>> No.17724147

When is the best time to update your story on Royalroad?

>> No.17724156


>> No.17724170

>dimly lit corridor
Eliminate this from your vocabulary immediately.

>> No.17724172


>> No.17724194

What can monsters be an allegory for except human vices

>> No.17724202

but what if the corridor is dimly lit?

>> No.17724240

They can be a metaphor for nature, if you want to show how science and nature can be just as cruel. Depending on how you define human vices they can also be a metaphor for trauma and inner turmoil.

>> No.17724265

Hot fuck that's a long first sentence

>> No.17724285

/wg/, I'm feeling compelled to rewrite the backstory I've been working on for the past few nights because I had an epiphany about the character's personality and mannerisms

should I do that, or should I fix it later and keep moving forward?

>> No.17724288

keep moving forward

>> No.17724294

That depends on how long the rewrite will take. If possible try fixing it now.

>> No.17724310

If you can't understand why "fix the backstory later" is the stupidest idea ever you're hard ngmi. Your story probably shouldn't be happening without the backstory, otherwise it's all just coincidence and farce. And if you write a story assuming one backstory, and then change the backstory afterwards, what was the point of changing it?

>> No.17724324

Question. When is it okay to use comma splices in your books? I've noticed that several authors pair up independent clauses with a comma instead of a semicolon or em dash; Fantasy authors in particular tend to favor it since they'll chain together numerous independent clauses in one sentence to describe an action.
With this in mind, can someone explain when it's okay or not okay to use comma splices?

>> No.17724325

Not that anon but perhaps the new backstory makes more sense or is more thematically fitting.

>> No.17724330

>Question. When is it okay to use comma splices in your books?

>> No.17724331 [DELETED] 

what would gene wolfe's fursona be

>> No.17724340

what is the fattest animal that also has the hairiest ass

>> No.17724346

Then why do some authors get away with it in published books?

>> No.17724352

Because they have an establish presence.

>> No.17724353

If that's possible your story is probably going to be bad. The idea development process should probably be something like "This happens in the backstory, so this will be the theme of the novel, so to fulfill that theme starting from the backstory, the plot should go like this." It would be a very weird coincidence if you managed to randomly pull a new backstory into the equation and wind up with anything better, let alone good.

>> No.17724360
File: 10 KB, 250x232, 1610766014251.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Discord Bill.

>> No.17724396

That depends on how you write. If you are an architect then changing your backstory will be more damaging than if you were a pantster.

>> No.17724405


>> No.17724407

Should I make it so that my female lead ends up with the main character's friend?

>> No.17724410
File: 43 KB, 625x626, bait.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.17724445

>...what discussion?
Maybe thesis is a better word. idunno.

>I think you misunderstand Dent here. Dent is a failed Batman, he's the warning of what Batman could have become, had he not passed the Joker test and kept his principles intact.
That's what he becomes after Joker is through with him.
Before that, he was what Batman thought the city needed over him and he was even willing to quit after Dent was elected.

>You're descibing events, but not explaining what they mean.
I meant that as a display of power on his part to drive the idea further but yeah. I can see what you mean.

I don't disagree with your interpretation of what Joker does but I think both of our takes can be applied depending on the framing. If we come from the side of the criminals, yeah, Batman and the Joker are just as disruptive; but if we come from the side of the everyday Gotham citizen, one has escalated the problem of crime and turned the city into a warzone while the other is a symbol of hope that the city can start becoming normal.

Either way, what I was asking wasn't so much if it's needed but if it helps the story.

>> No.17724447


>> No.17724479

you sound like a loser who doesn't write

>> No.17724498

The vast majority of these threads is just shitposts, blogposts, trollings, anti-animefags caring way too much about the Op pic and animefags posting their updates. We occasionally get writers posting their work, but those are the outlier. I don't know what you were expecting.

>> No.17724506

I am sitting on my couch writing a better book than you are, checking this thread on my phone every few minutes when I need to pause to figure something out.

>> No.17724508

Never mind, I'm an idiot who was mixing up complex sentences and comma splices.

>> No.17724513

until you destroy your enemies

>> No.17724530

post it or fuck off

>> No.17724544

writing a backstory after the fact is fine. it happens all the time in media. because the present is predicated on the past, so naturally the past is made intelligible by the present and vice-versa, so reconstructing the past based on the present is something we do all the time.

>> No.17724545

He's not going to post it, he's just going to claim people will steal it or plagiarize it. Its how its always been in these threads.

>> No.17724555
File: 419 KB, 1280x850, burian Zdenek, encampment of late paleolithic hunters.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Any ideas for potential stories with a prehistoric feel? Doesn't need to be entirely realistic, can have pulpier elements like conan-esque fantasy, dinosaurs, etc.

I'm having trouble thinking up character motivations that feel primal but are able to go deeper than just some generic human vs predator or human vs natural disaster premises.

>> No.17724563

>Before that, he was what Batman thought the city needed over him and he was even willing to quit after Dent was elected
Okay, but you're once again describing the tree and not the forest. Keep focused on Dent's overall purpose, not just what he is at any one stage of the story.

>but if we come from the side of the everyday Gotham citizen, one has escalated the problem of crime and turned the city into a warzone while the other is a symbol of hope that the city can start becoming normal
The uniqueness of Batman (and any super vigilante) lies in what he brings to the side of good, that the regular Gotham authorities can't. Characters (or anything really) are defined by what unique contributions they bring to the story.

>what I was asking wasn't so much if it's needed but if it helps the story
And my answer is, not necessarily. It doesn't matter that Joker is not exactly a "thematic opposite" of Batman (in fact he is arguably a thematic COUNTERPART). What matters is that he is an effective antagonist.

>> No.17724567

God this looks so fucking comfy

>> No.17724590

Don't do it between 4AM and 2PM EST. That seems to be the deadzone

>> No.17724603
File: 594 KB, 1600x1102, hunting_the_cave_bear_by_zdenek_burian_1952.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Did any story seeds flash in your head when you saw it?

>> No.17724621

Just me hunting elk with my boys and then impregnating the sewing chick in our little tent and the whole clan can hear us.

>> No.17724631

This one is only 25k words right now. Why would you want something incomplete?

The fact is that most people here are writing very longform work and there isn't much point in posting anything but the first few pages of them. The tradeoff, for people writing novels they mean to publish anywhere but something like RR, of "being on record as a 4chan user" vs. "getting a few shitty comments on chapter 1" is also very negative.

>> No.17724637
File: 509 KB, 2667x1500, neanderthalart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

sounds a bit simple. how would you add an healthy dose of meaningful conflict?

>> No.17724645

A tribe with superior technology shows up and threatens to steal your women and destroy your way of life. So you and your caveman bros have to get clever with what little you've got to fight off the bad guys and rescue your women for their hideous hairless penises.

>> No.17724654

It would be like a tom clancy novel but with cavemen.

>> No.17724656

Blood Meridian style lawless state of nature survival struggle

>> No.17724674

is joining a writing group worth it?

>> No.17724676
File: 1.03 MB, 800x548, paleoartburian.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

that's a bit more like it. now you have external conflinct in shape of the other tribe but which internal struggle would you personally be dealing with and how does it intersect with the outside threat?

>> No.17724680

Every fucking time. Animefags are better writers than you.

>> No.17724687

>"OOH RAH, COME GET SOME YOU HAIRLESS MOTHERFUCKERS!" shouted Master Hunter Unga "Wild Bill" Bunga, as he launched flights of flint-tipped, goosefeather-quilled SM-2ER Arrows from his advanced AH-64E War Bow. By his side, Caveman First Class Ooga "Palerider" Booga felled enemies by the score with his trusty hand-knapped XM-8 Hand Axe

>> No.17724790

I think that this progression of being what Batman wants to becoming a warning is what made him so effective in the movie, that's why I was pointing to it.

>The uniqueness of Batman (and any super vigilante) lies in what he brings to the side of good, that the regular Gotham authorities can't. Characters (or anything really) are defined by what unique contributions they bring to the story.
I agree but can't what I mentioned be seen as a unique contribution as well?
It's not as if the police were doing any advances on dealing with crime in a meaningful manner.

>And my answer is, not necessarily. It doesn't matter that Joker is not exactly a "thematic opposite" of Batman (in fact he is arguably a thematic COUNTERPART). What matters is that he is an effective antagonist.
Can you define what you mean with counterpart as opposed to an opposite here?

And thanks for staying with me, anon.

>> No.17724841

the chief's wife could be from the hairless men's tribe. The marriage happened during a time of peace between the two tribes and they had a son. Now the mixed-race son of a neanderthal cheiftan is the guy who has to lead the fight against the hairless men. Suspicions are cast on him and he's eager to prove to the tribe where his loyalties lie. Along the way he begins to doubt himself and questions whether he has the strength to fight such a hopeless war.

>> No.17724854

Stop looking for excuses and post it.

>> No.17724879
File: 57 KB, 388x525, 5633094.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>"being on record as a 4chan user" vs. "getting a few shitty comments on chapter 1" is also very negative.
What a fucking pussy

>> No.17724943

I don't generally like the idea of review swaps since they can come off as being forced and unfair to both parties, but I still read through the whole thing. Pastebin sucks for reading literature, I'll say that much. I found it a little bit hard to focus on reading through it because of this. Honestly, it didn't catch my attention too much so it's probably not for me. I think something about the dialogue irked me, it felt stiff at times? And for dialogue tags use " instead of '. ' is mostly used for inner monologue for third-person narratives, sometimes quotes within dialogue.

That said you don't have to review mine if you don't want to. When I read something I tend to be autistic about it and follow it even after reviewing, and I usually expect the same even though I know better.

Compared in what way? I always saw it as a more anime/degenerate userbase compared to RR with a healthy amount of readers, maybe smaller than RR. Its tag system is frankly really bad and genre choices leave more to be desired. With only 10 pre-scheduled chapters out thus far it's hard to tell if I'm faring well at all compared to RR.

>I'm not sure why you seek validation here when you basically made it. Ask for support from your fans.
Well... I dunno about "making it" whatever that means in this case. but thanks for the kind words anon. I was always a bit concerned you might rip apart whatever I might post given you're harsh from your other critques.

>> No.17724959

>I always saw it as a more anime/degenerate userbase compared to RR with a healthy amount of readers, maybe smaller than RR. Its tag system is frankly really bad and genre choices leave more to be desired. With only 10 pre-scheduled chapters out thus far it's hard to tell if I'm faring well at all compared to RR.

>> No.17724973

>Compared in what way?
Easier to publish stories, if its more or less restrictive than Royal Road, if the userbase is more interactive than Royal Road, sorry for not clarifying.

>> No.17724991


>> No.17725006

>F. Gardner
I got to ask if his plan even worked. Bought and read his books, so I assume so.

>> No.17725015

There's a shit ton of them already in amazon in self-publish though.

>> No.17725018

RR has manual approval by usually one person, and as far as I'm concerned SH just lets you publish automatically? From little observation I saw on SH before, readerbase tends to have higher interactively, but like with RR it just comes down to if they have anything to say and if they like it enough to leave a comment.

>> No.17725032

>RR has manual approval by usually one person
So wait, every chapter as to be manually approved by one person? Or am I reading that wrong?

>From little observation I saw on SH before, readerbase tends to have higher interactively, but like with RR it just comes down to if they have anything to say and if they like it enough to leave a comment.
So, more or less the same, if only a little variance between the two.

thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

>> No.17725044

>but like with RR it just comes down to if they have anything to say and if they like it enough to leave a comment
I don’t know how you can do it, I can’t imagine working on a story only for at the end, no ones reads it. Assuming the algorithm is working against new stories.

>> No.17725055

>is joining a writing group worth it?
people keep asking this question and people always reply the same thing: No.

>> No.17725060

I’ll read it when I have the time for it. I’ll make sure to favorite.

>> No.17725072


>> No.17725075

First of all, I like the way you handle style. It really plays into the strengths of telling three different stories, there are three different styles to go along with it. They aren't too different from one another, but the grim, shaky tone of chapter 0 is a definite contrast with the playful, happy tone of chapters 1 and 2, which is a definite contrast with the epic, historical tone of chapter 3. All of these are executed wonderfully, and I would like to give you praise for managing to juggle all these different styles in one book.

>> No.17725078

What do you mean why?

>> No.17725092

Why does it matter that people judge you? Why care? What are you really afraid of?

Why prehistoric? Maybe do something about someone discovering agriculture and convincing his tribe to abandon the hunter gatherer lifestyle for it. There's obvious conflict here and a new premise that awakens your pride of humanity.

>> No.17725098

There's a quest thread in Spacebattle with what you're doing. Just head up there and glean from them to see what to include.

>> No.17725104

I only read one of his books and it was pretty badly written, but his shilling did eventually make me take a look as well. So, I guess his plan has been working to some degree.

>> No.17725109

>What are you really afraid of?
That my hard work was for naught and that I’m working towards an impossible goal.

>> No.17725114

I supposed that's how marketing works though. Like those YA novels.

>> No.17725127

>Why prehistoric?
How rare is prehistoric works, anyhow? I remember one set in some ice age and it was pretty big brain but otherwise pretty niche as fuck.

>> No.17725131

He’s doing better than that other book, people mover.

>> No.17725137

Three stories? Seems pretty big.

>> No.17725138

In-fighting mostly.

>> No.17725140
File: 337 KB, 759x689, 87D9A3A6-E817-4300-8C8F-853CD6C02C61.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>”—Momma…! …Momma!—”

>> No.17725153

New thread.


>> No.17725174

But being serious, yes that line was an instant turn off for me. I’ve never seen a book start in such a way.

The MC seems a little mature as a narrator to match her age. It’s like a grown woman playing a child.

The opening line wasn’t anything fancy. It might do to use more colourful imagery.

Thanks for reviewing me kids story by the way. I’ll post more later.

>> No.17725176

Kindle Unlimited is not better than RR

>> No.17725186

He's going to be more well-known than you will ever be.

>> No.17725231

>So wait, every chapter as to be manually approved by one person? Or am I reading that wrong?
Only the first chapter. All subsequent chapters don't need any approval.

>> No.17725347

36 reviews free book

>> No.17725359

Rather than death then, maybe they join the various organizations they meet along the way, or some get married, or something along those lines.
For example one joins a paladin organisation, one joins the employ of a king, one becomes a merchant, another is maimed and settles down with a wife, then the last finds a giant library and then spends the rest of their days at the library.

>> No.17726319

Does this guy never sleep?

>> No.17727236

>I'm 25 and I suck at writing. I can only tell what I like and what I don't.
thanks for letting us know not to take your words seriously

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