Masculinity

[Anonymous No.17691899]

>America’s culture had a uniquely brutal and alienating way of brainwashing its males from an early age into all kinds of damaging beliefs and superstitions about what being a so-called ‘real man’ was, such as competitiveness instead of concert, winning at all costs, dominating others through intelligence or will, being strong, not showing your true emotions, depending on others seeing you as a real man in order to reassure yourself of your manhood, seeing your own value solely in terms of accomplishments, being obsessed with your career or income, feeling as if you were constantly being judged or on display, etc.

Was he right?

[smoker !HOZlQYR1MY No.17691966]

>>17691899
It’s interesting that he is basically just describing Hal in that quote, whom he wrote to be an emotionally dead character because he ate some fungus. It’s been interesting to listen to his interviews after reading IJ to see how straightforward his references are to the work. Like a “hey I know you aren’t going to read it so let me just quote what I wrote verbatim but phrase it as an opinion so it seems like it’s of the cuff but I spent three years of my life trying to figure out how to word this exact interview question”

[Anonymous No.17691987]

>>17691899
What a pussy.

[Anonymous No.17692001]

>>17691899
its weird how he described like every culture ever and due to his americanism, he somehow misconstrues it as an american thing.

[Anonymous No.17692003]

>>17691899
I dont think he is right to single out America in the beginning. There is nothing unique about it.

[Anonymous No.17692017]

>>17692003
>>17692001
America is the worst and most extreme iteration of this phenomenon.

[Anonymous No.17692023]

>>17692017
Compared to Sweden or something? or compared to every other culture that has ever existed up to the modern era?

[Anonymous No.17692024]

>>17692001
I think he was exposed to fairly old, high-class Europeans as an academic and formed an image of Europe based on those people

[Anonymous No.17692033]

>>17692017
not nearly. have you heard of mexico? what about afghanistan?

[Anonymous No.17692036]

>>17691899
yeah. it's a shame the commies didn't win. oh well. what we have is much better, i'm sure.

[Anonymous No.17692037]

>>17692024
that makes some hint of sense. but even then, the general idea just seems like how social forms more or less progress universally.

[Anonymous No.17692088]

>>17691899
>being strong
>a bad thing
uuuh ok? something tells me this dude is a little bit insecure but his ego would rather he criticize and bring everyone down instead of acknowledging and addressing his own flaws

with that out of the way, I fully agree with some criticisms of "toxic masculinity". running away from your emotions instead of dealing with them head on will not make you a better man. shunning any sort of intellectualism or higher culture, aka the whole jock/nerd paradigm is also extremely detrimental to making a better man. I dont think theres much benefit for a man in being ruthlessly individualist in a way that manifests as unproductive apathy for your community or god forbid straight up sociopathy

[Anonymous No.17692102]

>>17692088
>>17691899
>The Socrates character in Plato's Republic observed that "exclusive devotion to gymnastic" produces "a temper of hardness and ferocity" and that "exclusive devotion to music" produces a temper "of softness and effeminacy"
We've known that for thousands of years, why is that news AD 2021?

[Anonymous No.17692106]

>>17692001
It IS an american thing

[Anonymous No.17692177]

>>17692024
Even many masculine European men would seem feminine to Americans. Look at their metrosexual style for just one example. The Chad meme

[Anonymous No.17692197]

>>17692102
just look at what most people do with the internet at their fingertips

[Anonymous No.17692200]

>>17692177
its like they picked the absolute worst traits of the old aristocracy to emulate

[Anonymous No.17692343]

>>17691899
no most Americans are soi filled bitches

[Anonymous No.17692354]

>>17692088
WtC sprezz trousers??

[Anonymous No.17692353]

>>17692001
I know, right? This shit happens everywhere kek

[Anonymous No.17692364]

>>17692106
Not true.

[Anonymous No.17692366]

>>17691899
His panic at absent sincerity is just reflecting onto his sense of masculinity here. There's vice in avoidance of emotion, but as much can be found in this neurotic refusal of manhood and accomplishment.
This isn't uniquely American. His obsession with sincerity shows the same failure to grasp it as Faulkner's Quentin. These aren't ends in themselves, they must be found in pursuit of worthier things.

[Anonymous No.17692367]

>>17692102
in other words, you need both?

[Anonymous No.17692431]

>>17692367
yes

[Anonymous No.17692484]

>>17691899
>Chronically depressed and emotionally cold person equates resilience and hardness, and projects that onto others who, unlike himself, enjoy both existence and irony about its shittier aspects & players.
Where have I seen this attitude before? Oh yes, the creepier dwellers of the Chans, as well as many another brand of misanthrope, including some of the women in my family: It's not quite so exclusively a male thing as he, or anyone else, contends. (See also that hag Ayn Rand.)
>>17692102
All in all I prefer a more Falstaffian or Montaigne-like mode of regulating the balances implied: You get more life only if you want it, and know your aptitudes even better than your best friends do.